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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 ม.ค. 2022
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There have been some amazing discoveries in speedrunning, yet also some controversial strats and tricks developed. Here are 3 cases in Mario speedrunning where a clever and unique strategy was banned for the sake of healthy competition.
#speedrun
#Glitch
#Mario - เกม
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My mans finally got a sponsor
@@timdennison2376 epic
The Ad in the vid took ages... Why?
@@bramwesterveld7805 lmao it took up like a third of the video, absurd
what is it like not having a soul?
I love how for two of the banned strat discussions, everything went smoothly until Luigi.
Luigi ruins everything
@@LunaticJ by doing nothing
The concept of spending six hours to save two minutes is the funniest thing ever.
Gotta give credit to the grindset
And yet people do do that.
If you've ever had your disc drive locked up, or are part of the Wii homebrew scene, I guarantee you'd be aware of the Wii's maintenance mode.
I've done a lot of Wii homebrew and there's so much funny little tricks that I definitely forgot about maintenance mode, if I was even aware of it in the first place
It’s nice to see the memory overload properly documented in a high quality video like this, that week was a fun week to mess with the games in. I was really happy in the end to see that it resulted in a huge 3DW timesave too, and I’m glad you added that in
Thank you for digging up such a cool discovery!
strats: exist
luigi: you shall not pass
Undock abuse has got to be one of the most interesting speedrun strategies I’ve heard in awhile
The irony about the Mario Odyssey trick is that raw physical copies on 1.0.0 would have the glitch, and in 15+ years when Nintendo shuts down Switch Online and it goes 100% physical-or-bust (like how Wii U and every console prior currently exist), then the 1.0.0 will actually be the more accessible version.
Are you sure Nintendo never updated the cartridges in later batches?
@@gyroninjamodder idk
My cartridge has 1.3.0, though granted I bought
*it several years after the game released. I don't know how many cartridges in the wild are 1.0.0 vs 1.3.0
Weird to see Raid Shadow Legends ads still.
Another interesting one is the pause spamming technique in perfect dark that made runs awful because you would just pause, unpause and move a tiny bit, pause again, and repeat until done, and it bugged out the timer to get really low glitched times but took absolutely forever and was banned.
Perfect dark
There was something similiar for *The World is Not Enough*. I dont remember the exact details but unpausing didnt start the timer till 2 frames after the pause but you could pause every frame. On all but one stage this wasnt a big deal as your moment would fall and cause you to halt in place if you abused this in a normal run.
But one stage was an auto scroller type where you are skiing down a mountain, thus your speed was locked so you could quick pause every frame, advance a bit, repause so the timer didnt advance.
There is like an infamous "speedrun" of this stage that was the fastest in game time ever but took well over 2 hours because of all the pausing. But the video got lost because the person transferring it from VHS to digital broke the tape or something, cant remember the exact details.
Great video! The explanations were very clear
Glad you think so!
BfBB has a trick where you dirt up your disc which makes certain tricks work better. it was banned for basically destroying the game
using dirty or scratched discs just made lag clips more consistent, they didn't destroy the game. it wasn't banned, the community was just uncomfortable with people damaging their discs so they allowed loading the game from the hard drive to remove the need for discs. this made load times more consistent and faster than so the strategy became obsolete, and new strats have been found to replace the old lag clip strats anyways
Anybody who completed a speedrun by actually putting ketchup on their game and putting it in their console deserves a reward. I wonder what other condiments were also tried but didn't work lol
Toothpaste
Its not really a strategy but theres a banned trick in the metal gear rising community where if you leave your game on for too long, then the game runs at a MUCH faster speed. Your running speed will blaze through the enemies but so will the enemies attacks. Theoretically this allows you to beat the game and a person once accidently used it in a run (unaware)
so 2 of the 3 bans that where showed are luigis fault.
Luigi, the slayer of speedrun techniques.
Ah yes. The grimy SpongeBob battle for bikini bottom CD speed strat.
About the undock abuse. I think maybe changing the system resolution to 720p or lower might help with load times on the docked system. Its just an idea but maybe worth giving it a shot!
the undock abuse incident
Yes
In general, death abuses with forced story-wins can be interesting
As an Example, in Hyperdimension Neptunia Re;Birth 2, it's technically faster to remove every member but one from your party before a certain fight and let yourself be killed - the game doesn't care as there is a forced story cutscene afterwards, which acts as if you had won regardless.
I never use that strat though as my menuing is too slow and I'd lose more time setting up party members again afterwards than it can save.
Nice to see another nep nep enjoyer in the wild
Can't wait for someone to use a hand cam for 7-8 hours to destroy their hands and the 100% WR
Great video! I enjoyed learning these banned strategies in speed runs. Also congrats on getting a sponsor (correct me if I’m wrong) for the first time.
I agree with some other folks that skipping the saveprompts should have just been banned for Luigi and not Mario in Galaxy. It's arbitrary, but what isn't? There are enough speedgames where certain things are banned in one category because it defeats the point of the category, but allowed in another category because it doesn't defeat the purpose of that one.
Ocarina of Time is an prime example of this.
like the history of RBA (reverse bottle adventure) is complex, it can give you a lot of neat items early, but was originally banned in 100% because you could get certain items without collecting them from their source point.
later on this was allowed due to the introduction of "source requirement" which basically means that if you RBA an item, you need to get that item from the source aswel.
RBA was still banned in other categories like MST (Medallions, Stones, Trials) since RBA could give you medallions and stones, which then rendered the dungeon "beaten" and wouldn't give you the item anymore, rendering the source requirement uncompletable till you do another RBA to get rid of the item.
OOT in general allows version exclusive glitches a lot, like 100% also had eyeball frog early, where in 1.0 (N64 exclusive) you could get certain items if you held Z while talking to an specific NPC.
For example you could get Gold Scale as child if you held Z and R as you came out of the water and talked to the fishing guy, instead of giving an heart piece, he would give you gold scale, which is normally an adult reward.
or King Zora would give you the eyeball frog instead of the Zora Tunic, which obviously sped up the adult trade sequence a lot.
the OOT community honestly is the best when it comes to allowing version exclusive glitches, you can generally get around it, but not compete for WR if you don't have it, much better than the SM64 community, who purposefully ignore VC because it's faster than the original and not the original N64 version.
Love how the sponsor approved of an ad that at one point contains the text "AD OF SUFFERING" (since "HE" is hidden behind a QR-code) 😂
I love these kind of documentary about speedruns man
My 0 seconds Super Mario Bros. WR also is not recognized. 😞It is "8-4 axe smashed" as starting point and "win the game" as endpoint.
1:53 ad of suffering... A very fitting name, huh.
Well I feel called out about not knowing the maintenance mode existed...
Wow that;s very interesting. I enjoyed the video.😀
Well done overview, thank you :)
That last method reminds me about the huge hubbub surrounding Doom's UV-Pacifist category a couple of years ago, although kind of in the opposite direction.
Tell Ganon, you can lower the load times faster than 3seconds if you lower game resolution down to 720p with its visual scaling down to that of 80%
You can get 4+ seconds even faster load times when game is downloaded to mainline Systems memory at 480p but to my recollection 720p at 80% while running RE1 HD remake and 4 heavenly
Best versions I’ve played in awhile!
Also eliminates having to undock console which I would do to get faster door load ins in Resident Evil no matter the #
(Quick Edit)
Also works for Super Smash Brothers Ultimate.
With the game lowered while playing Ultimate the game will hold 60FPS way more true so that alone boost potential of anything non true to maybe applicable! Yes Even Online. Eheheehe
That undock abuse ban seems like pure bs tbh
...no, it's really not. It's a timesave that isn't really skill sensitive, so everyone would basically get the free timesave, but it makes verifying runs not to be cheated or spliced WAY harder. The speedrun is effectively the same without it sans less than a minute of saved load times. Why add in a trick that saves less than a minute automatically for everyone if it makes it an order of magnitude harder to verify world records' legitimacy?
@@ryjelsum i don't mind if an trick or something isn't sensitive to skill, if it was as easy to verify while being an free time save, sure.
but since it made verifying 1000x harder due to needing an webcam just to record the game on top of having an capture card for high quality video footage? yeah, that's not a good thing.
And what if you are playing undocked the entire run?
That is allowed. You just can’t switch between the two. I forgot to mention that oops
Yoshi Galaxy music is the best.
I wanna try Raid: Shadow Legends but every ad always says "it's the best time to play the game now" so I keep waiting for the next ad lol
Pause buffering bans fits in this vid
Source of the music in the undock abuse section? I really want to hear it by itself.
get that Raid bag brother!!
My little brother sold my mario odyssey game. I was learning to speed run any%. F he only has got 6 years so on the future I will destroy his games
I bet there is a way to do undock abuse without undocking. if I had a switch right now I would go on a tangent instead of working on what I am supposed to be lol
Hey seeing you in 2017 is interesting, where do you think you would have been five years fron then?
Love to see the 2017 Lunatic Cameo😅
Yay welcome back Mr.J
Ya almost had me subscribe...good start to the video...then that damn raid shadows legends shit.
Don't hate the player hate the game. Please sub. i wanna hit 100k and I promise I wont RAID sponsor again please help me
@@LunaticJ Ur video are good. It's just that cringe garbage ads for raid shadow legends are so awful. Ur clearly better than that
why do top level players play in docked mode? if loading is faster in undocked mode and it is allowed to run in undocked mode for the entire run, wouldnt it make sense to just run in undocked mode?
Love your videos
I love your streams
Why is hotplate allowed but not pushing on my n64 controller for goldeneye?
why is 2p ban in smo for most of the runs outside of 2p and low % form what i know it's faster and has more cool movement.
I mean, i think It's even banned at any%, So why Not let any% be massively 2p And Just change 2p% to 1p%? This wouldnt hurt a single speedrun category And it will have more focus on 2p only skips
Galaxy 2 is my favorite game of all time!!
Good vid fam
There we go, best channel notification ^^
One day the speedrunning community will realize that the goal is to save time via mastery of the game, and that we aren’t trying to get a lesser time for the sake of it. If a strategy involves some tedious game-tampering and not a mechanical wall-clip, it probably shouldn’t be allowed.
spedruns are about getting the fastest time at all costs, not about who's better at the video game
@@blikthepro972wrong. Cheating is banned.
Going by that logic, any category other than glitchless should be banned. No fun allowed.
lets go lunatic j uploaded
The raid shadow legends ad was 8/14 mins of the video lol
It’s actually funny how that turned out to be the case lol
wym?
? It was 2 minutes long
okay not at all done w the vid but omg why do u have an upright bass with no bridge or strings lmaoo... what's the story behind that :0 ?
It belonged to my great-grandfather, who played in an orchestra
Happy New Year
Thank you!
I say use a Nintendo Switch handheld mode capture device.
I'm the same age as LunaticJ apparently, that's kinda surreal
22?
The clickbait lmao
My original thumbnail with undock abuse looked ugly so i went full watchmojo lmao
Overly broken stuff
10:23 this is just stupid, "oh cant because its too hard to ge t 1.0.0 version" then "oh uh unbanned because its the cleanest version now"
Hey did u guys know that most people that watch aren't subscribed
I wish credits warp were banned as well. It's mostly about OoT, but before they at least beat the last boss. Now it's just a series of arbitrary actions and roll credits. Not that it doesn't take any skill, but it's not enjoyable to watch
us isnane how the oot speedrun commuinty came up with all that
Which is why ACE is banned in every main non any% category, the old any% got its own category, and no one gives a shit about OoT any% anymore
you made it big, finally getting sponsored by raid shadow legends, very pog
My family is so proud
4:59 why is this banned? Any speedrunner could do this with ease
any speedrunner could do it, correct.
communities often think about the health of their speedgame.
would YOU want to run an category that requires you to 100% mario galaxy everytime you want to do runs?
If the answer is no, there you go, that's why.
As stated in the video, sometimes version exclusive glitches gets banned because it goes against the purpose of an category. (like Ocarina of Time's MST (Medallions, Stones, Trials) speedrun, where the goal is to collect all medallions and stones and do ganons trials afterwards, but an glitch called RBA (reverse bottle adventure) you could use specific items to gain certain medalions/stones without ever stepping inside it's respective dungeon, could anyone do that? yes, does it go against the entire purpose of making MST? yup ... so it was banned)
the other reason as i stated above is if it's good for the speedgame, for mario galaxy, playing as mario would make no different with maintenance mode, but if you wanted to do luigi? yeah, time to do an 120 star run as mario just do some runs as Luigi.
Can anyone do it? yeah.
Is it healthy for the category? nope.
only 760p? what happun?
Tech issues and crashes
I don't understand some of these stats, maybe it's because I'm not a speedrunner, but saving 2 seconds per loading screen in a run that always has 6 loading screens and only that seems kinda pointless.
You only save ~12 seconds so it barely has an impact on how long the run is, and if everyone uses the strat it has zero impact on the leaderboard because EVERYONE saves the same exact 12 seconds.
I understand a strat that makes a run considerably shorter or one that saves only a little time but requires skill, but going to that much setup for 2 minutes on a 3 hour run is kinda meh.
depends on the context.
2 seconds a loading zone for example can be huge when you enter a lot of loading zones.
the example the video mentioned with undocking the switch for faster loading times when getting off the balloon.
yes it's only 2 seconds faster and maybe adds to around 12 seconds in total, but that run was around 30ish minutes, that's when seconds really matter.
Also the problem in that specific scenario that it made verifying runs became an nightmare and would require multiple camera setup since the video feed would cut off when undocking making it stupidly easy to splice.
but when you look at another speedgame like Diddy Kong Racing, depending on the run but some runners opt to turn the music off as it adds lag, would in the end only win you a few seconds overal, but the more optimized it becomes the more neccesary it becomes.
that's why for example an extremely hard trick that has an 1/30000 chance of even succeeding, not many are gonna do that right? but what if that trick saves 2-3 minutes and 1 guy does it and sets an WR using it getting the full time save, that forces everyone to use that 1/30000 trick.
(Mario Kart 64 had this issue in calimari desert, where it was an extremely slim chance you could hop over an fence, skipping the vast majority of the lap, someone got it and the track died in terms of popularity, because not many players could be bothered to perform an extremely rare trick)
It all depends on context and if it's healthy for the speedrun itself, some communities just let it be if it's an small time save, but some want to ban it as an precaution because it can potentially ruin the category.
Look at Mario Galaxy and the maintenance mode explained in this video.
would you want to spend 6 hours to unlock Luigi to do a few runs?
@@DarkDyllon I get what you're saying, but on a hypothetical scenario where every runner can semi-consistently hit their pb, the 12 seconds time save only serves to push down inactive player while forcing player to do the "trick" to have a chance. This is because it's a consistent, no-risk time save.
On the other hand I 100% get those 1/1000 skips, they can save you a minute,or if you fail lose you 5; it's a gamble, you could try it and risk having to reset, or you could look for another rime save.
But, I understand this is a 'me' thing, just like I don't understand why people shiny hunt full odds in older pokemon games.
Video begins at 3:20
0:41 what is that supposed to do?
that is a trick for Spongebob Sqaurepants Battle For Bikini Bottum i don't remeber what it does in top of my head but is was a great speedrun trick and more dirty the game disc was more easier was it to do the glitch until the game disc is so dirty you can't run it anymore the World Record Holder SHiFT have video about it that was his video
In Spongebob SquarePants Battle for Bikini Bottom, making your disc dirty would bring benefits to the run (I believe it was being able to lag for clipping into walls)
smudging the disc would make lag clips more consistent in bfbb
the ketchup disc was just a meme and wouldnt work obviously
Two minute ad? Not even mad, get that $$ bro. Love the video
I’m pretty bad at being concise but thanks haha
Wow! Congrats on the Sponsor dude!
I’ll remember you when I’m famous
ayone work at KFC here?
The video was enjoyable and informative, but it loses a point because of the clickbait BLJ thumbnail.
Great content, but your intro was a little long winded followed directly by a sponsor for a 14 minute video.
genetic diff
L A D S
3:17 end of ad
Wow, I literally disagree with every single one of these, except half with the Luigi thing.
First of all, just make a separate Leaderboard for something like Memory Overload (or just ban it from the Luigi category????).
Then the patch thing is just stupid, by the same accessibility argument, Emulator should be allowed for any old-school game.
Third verse same as the second, except now we have the additional BS of "it is intimidating to new runners". Since when is this of concern lol, I don't see Punch Out players banning any frame perfect perfect punches, or speedrunners of that one Zelda game banning superswim...
Also who gives a crap if someone splices for top 50 or something, just make handcam a proof standard that matters for top 15/20 (maybe even 10 is enough). It requires one camera pointed at your switch, that also shows enough of your gameplay in the background.
first, you can’t just make a separate leaderboard for every small difference because if nobody wants to run it then it’ll just be an empty leaderboard (i do think they could’ve just banned it from luigi)
for the 2nd one, you have to get the context around it. odyssey was a popular game around launch, so many new people were coming in and having a barrier that would discourage new players(and potentially future wr holders) from starting would be bad, it was basically a temporary ban until the hype died down a bit. Also emulators are allowed in most old-school games since for really old games there’s barely any difference between console and emulator(the super mario bros world record is currently done on emulator)
for the third one, when undock abuse is performed it’s a different type of time save. it’s not difficult to perform at all, it doesn’t require skill. with timesaves like that that don’t require skill, once the time is brought down 12 seconds it’s basically the same run, except now you have to set up a camera to show video evidence that the game was still running. who wants to buy a camera to show that their speedrun was legitimate if they don’t have a good one already?
When j
Pog
not first
Comment #69. Nice!
🧀
Arabic
Hello. Plz change Thumbnail, bc no n64 strat which was banned is in your video explained... clickbait = dislike
Please ban Minecraft Speedruns because of to much Luck
Great video! The explanations were very clear