Nice! The more and more you use it the more you will love it :) I use mine for everything under 25mm almost exclusively. I am totaly hooked on emergency collets.
Same chuck, similar results; about 0.5 thou (better on a good day) on decent collets. This on SB9 lathe. Major problem was the gearing from the key pinions to the collet screw gear. Pinions were rough and lumpy. Had to totally disassemble, massage each and every one's teeth with a file and stone, clean and reassemble. Pretty sweet afterwards. Beats my bell-mouthed 3-jaw. My go-to on anything that fits the collets. Then again, 4-jaw is the utmost.
I recently set up one of these 5C chucks on my lathe with a 3" 5C step collet bored to hold the outer gear of the triple gears from my Model T Ford transmission. It made the boring and facing of the new bushings the quickest part of rebuilding my transmission.
Nice video and it's wonderful to hear your wife play piano. My wife teaches piano to the neighborhood kids. Our house comes alive during lessons. Some of the kids are rambunctious and play equally well with their feet and hands :) I have a pretty similar 5C collet chuck... and a big drawer of collets, and it's my favorite, convenient and accurate beyond my ability to measure.
My wife was hesitant when I asked her for some music. Like manual machining is my hobby piano playing is hers. Thanks for the encouragement! 5C is so plentiful I tell folks to standardize on them in the home shop. That and R8. Both aren't my favourite, but when you are working to a budget availability and price are prioritized higher than preference.
I get to use a lathe in our engineers work shop, its a Harrison, heaven help you if you are turning small shafting and the part is removed and refitted. The work piece is all over the place, I would be grateful to have accuracy like you got with the 5C
I picked up an import 5C collet chuck from CDCO. I wasn't expecting it to be real accurate, but I ended up being presently surprised. Its only a few tenths out. I bought it with a the D1-4 back plate.
Thanks for this. I was literally looking at these a minute ago. I have zero collets, and was reluctant to start collecting after viewing the price and availability of 4C collets, which is what my machine uses. I think I'll pull the trigger.
I just installed mine last night. I got the same tolerance as yours, right at .001 or a bit less. Pretty happy with mine as well. Love your wife's piano playing. All of my kids play.
Used mine today on job. Works really well, I checked a few parts and it was indicating .0005" runout. Really happy as it is better than my 3 jaw by almost a factor of 10! Piano playing is a wonderful gift! My wife is working with our kids.
Max, I love your podcast - I found it about 2 months ago and starting at the beginning I'm almost ready for episode 19 - hope you are going to continue that! It makes working in the shop feel a lot less lonely. It's funny you just purchased this because I too just acquired an identical unit. I haven't even been able to mount it up yet! Like you, I standardized on 5C for workholding, so I'm with you all the way.
Hi Marc! Justin here (Max is the 'other guy :). Thanks for the comment. We are going to get the podcast going again - I've had a few family issues (sickness) that has taken a large chunk of my time. Stay tuned!
“C” type collets MUST be used with a work piece that fits the closet closely. They don’t allow for compression. You will damage the collet if you try to clamp down on something more than 1/64th smaller. This is why they are available in such small increments. My set has 72 collets. My ER collets, which are the most used in industry (and are the collets Stefan mostly uses as well) have a range they can hold, so you need fewer. They can also be found in ver high accuracy versions from Techniks, and some others-0.0002”. Try the chuck (after you’ve taken it apart and cleaned the inside) in each of the three positions the mount allows. If the chuck isn’t concentric, sometimes trying them finds one that is better. Then just mark it and always put it in that way. Everything is off by some amount. If you’re unlucky, then they will all add up. If you’re lucky, they will partly, or if you’re really lucky, totally cancel each other out. Another trick is to machine the mount out a small bit, if concentricity is bad, by about half the amount it’s off by, and inserting a long shim on the side that’s opposite the the side that’s further out. This will bring it much closer. I brought a friends 5C chuck, which was 0.0016” out to below 0.0004”, which is pretty good enough for most work. But cheap, inaccurate collets make things worse. I recommend buying a few good ones in the sizes you use most, or have the greatest need for accuracy. All hobbies are about spending money, and sometimes you just have to bite the bullet. By the way, I really don’t recommend buying used collets, even if they’re from some high end maker. People abuse their collets, and collets are, just like drill chucks, consumables. At some point, they need to be replaced, and with eBay, you may be the lucky buyer of abused, worn out collets. Don’t do it, even if some people say they’ve been lucky. First, they’ve been lucky. Second, if you don’t know much about them, old, worn out collets may be fine to them. Beware!
Thanks for this review, and recommendation. Up to now, I've been wondering if these import collet chucks were worth considering. Also, thank you Megan !
good video just bought one ready to make back plate..so looks like ill make registar a thou or two smaller so can as you did tap the t.i.r in thanks video
Wow, that's a lot of turns on the chuck key to tighten up the collet! But its a lot better then my Chines ER32 collet set :) And I like that it fits directly onto the green lathe as I have a very similar model. Although mine fixes the chuck using allen bolts from behind the spindle. It's a pain in the behind to chance chucks. So I prefer the threaded spindle :)
Stefan said it was like a Gazillion or something. It is many turns. I'm thinking about using my drill with it. Our lathes are almost identical - mine has exactly the same spindle nose - the screws come in from the back. For this collet chuck you need to make nuts for the back - that's what I did in the first part of the video. I still like it better than a threaded spindle.
Its funny how "import" is synonymous with "not so good" on the home shop machining scene. The problem is that you import it from the wrong places. Try importing it from Europe, and especially Germany and Switzerland instead ;-)
The Chinese can do good work. We as Americans want cheap prices and basically hire the Chinese to build and export low quality products. Are I phones or Insize brand micrometers junk? In my opinion NO.You get what you are willing to pay for.
German, Switzerland, Japan, and Polish chucks are the best in the world. Damn, even some Chinese can be good and better than US ones. As this video shows they are good, I am not sure how long they will last, but not too shabby.
How are you starting the tap with your mill? Do you have a clutch between the drill chuck and the mill or is the stutter and artifact of the fast video playback?
Just curious, is the body hard on your collet chuck? I have one, but it's set up as a set true, so a little easier to adjust. What would it do if you bumped it in using the collet and your reamer shank, would it repeat and could you get better than .001? Can't wait for the next podcast to come out.
I haven't tried filing it to see how hard it is. It is really nicely finished. I think you could bump it over and indicate with the stock in the collet. I think for mission critical work this is definitely a solution - even if you had to do it every part. I'm just a home shop harry so if I need to do higher precision than .001 I think bumping the chuck over each time isn't a big deal at all. Next time I will try to see if it is repeatable though.
Very good video. Just got my 5C collects now I'm in the market for a chuck. Could you give the web site where you got yours and did you make your back plate or did you get it with the chuck. Thanks for the video.
Are you This Old Tony's identical brother? You sound like him and have similar hands and video styles. Seriously I've heard issues with using this chuck on the older South Bend 9" lathe. Some claim it is too heavy for the spindle.
I've never seen or heard of a discussion about limits to tooling and/or workpiece weight on home gamer class machines. I'd like to, because now that you mention it that seems kinda important. Mr. Pete has commented more than once about how certain chucks or toolholders just "look" wrong on a machine, but that's as close as I can recall seeing the subject brought up.
LOL, I'm nowhere near TOT's caliber. Tony has a gift. I do really enjoy his videos and I think his format is engaging. I consider him a teacher of how to do videos well. My own style is still developing - but Tony definitely is very influential. Regarding the chuck weight, I don't think it weights much more than a 5" or 6" 3 jaw but I haven't weighed it. I think the issue with it on the Southbend would be the amount of stick out. This chuck does extend a fair distance from the mounting point - which maybe an issue with a 9" Southbend's plain spindle bearings. There is a possibility I could see of pushing the oil out of the journal if the moment load was too high. That said I think if you took it slow it probably wouldn't be a huge issue. Just for interest sake - MLA (Metal Lathe Accessories) has a collet chuck kit that I'm pretty sure Andy designed around the Southbend lathe: www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA21.html
It is something that would take an engineering analysis. I'll see if I can find any info on maximum radial load plain bearings can take. Rolling element bearings are much easier - the number is in the catalog.
tony has video skills, but not machining skills. (see for example the way he chundered that shear blade recently by adding an extra washer when such a modification was uncalled for). as far as a chuck being too much for a lathe- look at this PM thread. any chuck will eat up some of the workpiece weight capacity of the lathe. but I doubt a little 50lb collet chuck is near the capacity of a 9" lathe. www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/lathe-size-vs-workpiece-weight-262489/
When tapping the cam lock mounting plate why are you only going a few turns with spindle then tapping by hand just run to depth under power then reverse spindle more taps are broken by hand then when power tapping.
That is an excellent question. I can't really say either way, but the Chinese don't scrap very much. They sell pretty much everything so you need to be prepared going into the transaction that you may end up with a casting kit. I've read a few reports of some camlock chucks having .008" runout. Many retailers will take returns so that is an option. My experience has been similar to Stefan's - at best you get something that is adequate, and at worst you get something that can be fixed with some work. This chuck is no different. I'm sure a Bison chuck is better - but that comes at a price. This chuck is very good when you consider the price, and with some work could be comparable to a Bison. If I was running a production shop I would buy the Bison without even looking at a Chinese one.
Could you please stop calling things "import". Call it by the brand / manufacturer. It really doesn't make sense to call things import. I am guessing you are from US, but you know, there are workholding tools that are technically "imports", but are better than anything you can get made in USA. Ones from Germany, Switzerland, Poland, and sometimes even China. It is not helpful to call everything as "import", as it just shows your prejudice, and reaffirms weird connotations, which are just stereotypes, and false. Would you call Schuablin, Okuma or Mitotoyu "import"? Why? Even some reputable German brands actually have all of their manufacturing in China. All of it.
It is a pansy liberal whose feelings are hurt by simple words. Grow some balls and don’t let your BLM mind explode over the small stuff! Calling something import is not racist! Go back to school (not a liberal indoctrination camp) and learn what the term racism you gender bender! Sick of you millennials....puke!
You are correct sir. It's actually a pretty good lathe although I wouldn't pay what they are charging for them now. I paid less than 1K for it brand new - now it is over 2k. Evidently white paint increases price.
IMHO: THE MUSIC IS WAY TOO LOUD, AND DISTRACTING!!!...IT'S TOO BAD THAT SO MANY HOURS ARE WASTED TRYING TO "IMPROVE" THE MACHINES, INSTEAD OF MAKING THINGS!!..
Nice! The more and more you use it the more you will love it :)
I use mine for everything under 25mm almost exclusively. I am totaly hooked on emergency collets.
Same chuck, similar results; about 0.5 thou (better on a good day) on decent collets. This on SB9 lathe. Major problem was the gearing from the key pinions to the collet screw gear. Pinions were rough and lumpy. Had to totally disassemble, massage each and every one's teeth with a file and stone, clean and reassemble. Pretty sweet afterwards. Beats my bell-mouthed 3-jaw. My go-to on anything that fits the collets. Then again, 4-jaw is the utmost.
I recently set up one of these 5C chucks on my lathe with a 3" 5C step collet bored to hold the outer gear of the triple gears from my Model T Ford transmission. It made the boring and facing of the new bushings the quickest part of rebuilding my transmission.
Cogwheel world headquarters - a center of machining and musical excellence!
Hi Ian. Musical excellence - yes, machining, well that's a work in progress :).
Nice video and it's wonderful to hear your wife play piano. My wife teaches piano to the neighborhood kids. Our house comes alive during lessons. Some of the kids are rambunctious and play equally well with their feet and hands :) I have a pretty similar 5C collet chuck... and a big drawer of collets, and it's my favorite, convenient and accurate beyond my ability to measure.
Thanks Kent. My wife is teaching our younger ones to play piano right now. I completely understand the feet thing.
Your wife is very talented. Nice video I also started using 5C collets 3 years ago very useful.
My wife was hesitant when I asked her for some music. Like manual machining is my hobby piano playing is hers. Thanks for the encouragement! 5C is so plentiful I tell folks to standardize on them in the home shop. That and R8. Both aren't my favourite, but when you are working to a budget availability and price are prioritized higher than preference.
I get to use a lathe in our engineers work shop, its a Harrison, heaven help you if you are turning small shafting and the part is removed and refitted. The work piece is all over the place, I would be grateful to have accuracy like you got with the 5C
I picked up an import 5C collet chuck from CDCO. I wasn't expecting it to be real accurate, but I ended up being presently surprised. Its only a few tenths out. I bought it with a the D1-4 back plate.
Thanks for this. I was literally looking at these a minute ago. I have zero collets, and was reluctant to start collecting after viewing the price and availability of 4C collets, which is what my machine uses. I think I'll pull the trigger.
I just installed mine last night. I got the same tolerance as yours, right at .001 or a bit less. Pretty happy with mine as well. Love your wife's piano playing. All of my kids play.
Used mine today on job. Works really well, I checked a few parts and it was indicating .0005" runout. Really happy as it is better than my 3 jaw by almost a factor of 10! Piano playing is a wonderful gift! My wife is working with our kids.
Max, I love your podcast - I found it about 2 months ago and starting at the beginning I'm almost ready for episode 19 - hope you are going to continue that! It makes working in the shop feel a lot less lonely. It's funny you just purchased this because I too just acquired an identical unit. I haven't even been able to mount it up yet! Like you, I standardized on 5C for workholding, so I'm with you all the way.
Hi Marc! Justin here (Max is the 'other guy :). Thanks for the comment. We are going to get the podcast going again - I've had a few family issues (sickness) that has taken a large chunk of my time. Stay tuned!
“C” type collets MUST be used with a work piece that fits the closet closely. They don’t allow for compression. You will damage the collet if you try to clamp down on something more than 1/64th smaller. This is why they are available in such small increments. My set has 72 collets. My ER collets, which are the most used in industry (and are the collets Stefan mostly uses as well) have a range they can hold, so you need fewer. They can also be found in ver high accuracy versions from Techniks, and some others-0.0002”.
Try the chuck (after you’ve taken it apart and cleaned the inside) in each of the three positions the mount allows. If the chuck isn’t concentric, sometimes trying them finds one that is better. Then just mark it and always put it in that way. Everything is off by some amount. If you’re unlucky, then they will all add up. If you’re lucky, they will partly, or if you’re really lucky, totally cancel each other out.
Another trick is to machine the mount out a small bit, if concentricity is bad, by about half the amount it’s off by, and inserting a long shim on the side that’s opposite the the side that’s further out. This will bring it much closer. I brought a friends 5C chuck, which was 0.0016” out to below 0.0004”, which is pretty good enough for most work. But cheap, inaccurate collets make things worse. I recommend buying a few good ones in the sizes you use most, or have the greatest need for accuracy. All hobbies are about spending money, and sometimes you just have to bite the bullet.
By the way, I really don’t recommend buying used collets, even if they’re from some high end maker. People abuse their collets, and collets are, just like drill chucks, consumables. At some point, they need to be replaced, and with eBay, you may be the lucky buyer of abused, worn out collets. Don’t do it, even if some people say they’ve been lucky. First, they’ve been lucky. Second, if you don’t know much about them, old, worn out collets may be fine to them. Beware!
love the 5"c"s in the title about 5c
Very helpful and the piano was nice too.
Only 1 min into the video and im a subscriber! Love the music! None of that obnoxious crap.
Thanks for this review, and recommendation. Up to now, I've been wondering if these import collet chucks were worth considering. Also, thank you Megan !
Thanks Len. Yes they seem reasonable. Accusize sells them as well but they are more expensive. Not sure if the higher price improves quality.
Finally, music worth watching with! Thank you.
good video just bought one ready to make back plate..so looks like ill make registar a thou or two smaller so can as you did tap the t.i.r in thanks video
Wow, that's a lot of turns on the chuck key to tighten up the collet!
But its a lot better then my Chines ER32 collet set :)
And I like that it fits directly onto the green lathe as I have a very similar model.
Although mine fixes the chuck using allen bolts from behind the spindle.
It's a pain in the behind to chance chucks. So I prefer the threaded spindle :)
Stefan said it was like a Gazillion or something. It is many turns. I'm thinking about using my drill with it. Our lathes are almost identical - mine has exactly the same spindle nose - the screws come in from the back. For this collet chuck you need to make nuts for the back - that's what I did in the first part of the video. I still like it better than a threaded spindle.
Well well well look who it is!
Hi Jeff. You found me again :)
Love it. Your channel is definitely coming along. Love your work.
Thanks Bruno. Still so much to learn.
I have the same chuck and I really like it. Thanks
It's pretty good. I've been using a fair bit lately and it has been working out great.
Its funny how "import" is synonymous with "not so good" on the home shop machining scene. The problem is that you import it from the wrong places. Try importing it from Europe, and especially Germany and Switzerland instead ;-)
Arnljot Seem ahh in both cases$$$$$$
The Chinese can do good work. We as Americans want cheap prices and basically hire the Chinese to build and export low quality products. Are I phones or Insize brand micrometers junk? In my opinion NO.You get what you are willing to pay for.
German, Switzerland, Japan, and Polish chucks are the best in the world. Damn, even some Chinese can be good and better than US ones. As this video shows they are good, I am not sure how long they will last, but not too shabby.
I love mine too! About the same runout
What is the music your wife plays to start the video?
Nice vids men, shop tour, shop tour!
Thanks
Is that a Noga arm at 4:44 and if it isn't, is it a good, affordable substitute?
How are you starting the tap with your mill? Do you have a clutch between the drill chuck and the mill or is the stutter and artifact of the fast video playback?
Just curious, is the body hard on your collet chuck? I have one, but it's set up as a set true, so a little easier to adjust. What would it do if you bumped it in using the collet and your reamer shank, would it repeat and could you get better than .001? Can't wait for the next podcast to come out.
I haven't tried filing it to see how hard it is. It is really nicely finished. I think you could bump it over and indicate with the stock in the collet. I think for mission critical work this is definitely a solution - even if you had to do it every part. I'm just a home shop harry so if I need to do higher precision than .001 I think bumping the chuck over each time isn't a big deal at all. Next time I will try to see if it is repeatable though.
where can i find a cheap 5 c collet chuck for the grizzly G602 ?
Very good video. Just got my 5C collects now I'm in the market for a chuck. Could you give the web site where you got yours and did you make your back plate or did you get it with the chuck. Thanks for the video.
Thanks for sharing,, I enjoyed it and I learned also.
Thanks Mohammad!
great video, can you tell me how to identify what type of chuck i need to buy for my lathe ( Grizzly 4003g).. D1-4 or 3.. or else... thanks
Are you This Old Tony's identical brother? You sound like him and have similar hands and video styles. Seriously I've heard issues with using this chuck on the older South Bend 9" lathe. Some claim it is too heavy for the spindle.
I've never seen or heard of a discussion about limits to tooling and/or workpiece weight on home gamer class machines. I'd like to, because now that you mention it that seems kinda important. Mr. Pete has commented more than once about how certain chucks or toolholders just "look" wrong on a machine, but that's as close as I can recall seeing the subject brought up.
LOL, I'm nowhere near TOT's caliber. Tony has a gift. I do really enjoy his videos and I think his format is engaging. I consider him a teacher of how to do videos well. My own style is still developing - but Tony definitely is very influential. Regarding the chuck weight, I don't think it weights much more than a 5" or 6" 3 jaw but I haven't weighed it. I think the issue with it on the Southbend would be the amount of stick out. This chuck does extend a fair distance from the mounting point - which maybe an issue with a 9" Southbend's plain spindle bearings. There is a possibility I could see of pushing the oil out of the journal if the moment load was too high. That said I think if you took it slow it probably wouldn't be a huge issue. Just for interest sake - MLA (Metal Lathe Accessories) has a collet chuck kit that I'm pretty sure Andy designed around the Southbend lathe: www.statecollegecentral.com/metallathe/MLA21.html
It is something that would take an engineering analysis. I'll see if I can find any info on maximum radial load plain bearings can take. Rolling element bearings are much easier - the number is in the catalog.
tony has video skills, but not machining skills. (see for example the way he chundered that shear blade recently by adding an extra washer when such a modification was uncalled for).
as far as a chuck being too much for a lathe- look at this PM thread. any chuck will eat up some of the workpiece weight capacity of the lathe. but I doubt a little 50lb collet chuck is near the capacity of a 9" lathe. www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/lathe-size-vs-workpiece-weight-262489/
Damn I wanted to hear if your Standard Modern is as noisy as mine
When tapping the cam lock mounting plate why are you only going a few turns with spindle then tapping by hand just run to depth under power then reverse spindle more taps are broken by hand then when power tapping.
Thanks for this. Are all these chinese chucks the same grade?
That is an excellent question. I can't really say either way, but the Chinese don't scrap very much. They sell pretty much everything so you need to be prepared going into the transaction that you may end up with a casting kit. I've read a few reports of some camlock chucks having .008" runout. Many retailers will take returns so that is an option. My experience has been similar to Stefan's - at best you get something that is adequate, and at worst you get something that can be fixed with some work. This chuck is no different. I'm sure a Bison chuck is better - but that comes at a price. This chuck is very good when you consider the price, and with some work could be comparable to a Bison. If I was running a production shop I would buy the Bison without even looking at a Chinese one.
nice to learn from others
Link to where you got it from?
www.amazon.ca/dp/B07BGW27BY/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1521205631&sr=8-11&keywords=5c+collet+chuck
I'm a Canadian and it was purchased from Amazon Canada.
good
Stefan can’t even do simple math. I seriously hope that’s not your proof of reasoning.
turn your voice up or the music waaay down .... or get rid of it altogether.
Could you please stop calling things "import". Call it by the brand / manufacturer. It really doesn't make sense to call things import. I am guessing you are from US, but you know, there are workholding tools that are technically "imports", but are better than anything you can get made in USA. Ones from Germany, Switzerland, Poland, and sometimes even China. It is not helpful to call everything as "import", as it just shows your prejudice, and reaffirms weird connotations, which are just stereotypes, and false. Would you call Schuablin, Okuma or Mitotoyu "import"? Why? Even some reputable German brands actually have all of their manufacturing in China. All of it.
It is a pansy liberal whose feelings are hurt by simple words. Grow some balls and don’t let your BLM mind explode over the small stuff! Calling something import is not racist! Go back to school (not a liberal indoctrination camp) and learn what the term racism you gender bender! Sick of you millennials....puke!
@@craftyman1014 learn to read.
2227 b
You are correct sir. It's actually a pretty good lathe although I wouldn't pay what they are charging for them now. I paid less than 1K for it brand new - now it is over 2k. Evidently white paint increases price.
I got mine in Vancouver bc for 1300 I think I cant wate too get working in the shed when its warmer out side
IMHO: THE MUSIC IS WAY TOO LOUD, AND DISTRACTING!!!...IT'S TOO BAD THAT SO MANY HOURS ARE WASTED TRYING TO "IMPROVE" THE MACHINES, INSTEAD OF MAKING THINGS!!..