Reviving a Hardinge-Sjogren Chuck is No Easy Feat
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 มิ.ย. 2024
- Today we're going to tear into the Hardinge-Sjogren 5CAD3 5C Speed Collet Chuck. We'll tear it down, clean everything, lubricate it with grease and reassamble it so it'll be ready to run on the lathe once I get around to making the adapter.
Tools used in this video:
*This site contains affiliate links for which I may be compensated
VEVOR 6L Ultrasonic Cleaner (Amazon*): amzn.to/2pwtDQ0
General Tools Carbide Scribe with Magnet (Amazon*): amzn.to/45tMsSD
Milwaukee Brushless 3/8" Impact (Amazon*): amzn.to/3uxwHJ4
3/8" Allen Driver Impact Socket Set (Amazon*): amzn.to/3oylrei
Wiss Pro Shear Shop Scissors(Amazon*): amzn.to/3MQ3TWT
Starrett 6" Hook Rule Machinist Scale (Amazon*): amzn.to/37RUxVS
Goldenrod 10oz Pump Oiler (Amazon*): amzn.to/3OP0hlD
Birchwood Casey Swauber Applicators (Amazon*): amzn.to/3DCb3sd
WD-40 Spray Bottle - Empty (Amazon*): amzn.to/3JOeYF6
Raw Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com)
Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License
creativecommons.org/licenses/b...
00:00 Intro
00:38 Preliminary examination
02:16 Documentation
04:40 Disassembly
10:12 Cleaning
13:24 Lubrication and Reassembly
16:02 Gear Timing
20:19 Conclusion - So Pretty
I’m glad to see you get it cleaned up.Hopefully you will get more use out of it since its been sitting on our shelf for 5-6 years
Mechanic here (and hobby chemist + electrician)
WD-40 is the worst thing to have near rubber as most types of rubber gets dissolved by petroleum oils and here time is the issue, the longer it's in contact the bigger issue.
Brake cleaner is in most cases more rubber friendly since it evaporates completely long before doing any harm.
When doing brake jobs and if anyone have used some spray oil or antiseize on rubber parts like the caliper boot and sliding pin boots they swell up, take in water and it's all rusted out in a year.
I clean it out with brake cleaner and then lube with silicone grease
Brake fluid is also safe on rubber but I’m not sure how well it would clean.
My shoulders (story on its own) and your video inspired me to pick up a Hardinge-Sjogren Speed Collet Chuck 5CD4. I was eyeing up the Pratt-Burnerd Quick Collet Chuck - but I didn't want to part with $1700. You convinced me to take a chance on the H-S. After reading what I could find on the subject, folks seem to like them. So, I found one on Bay and when it came, I ran your video again as I followed through step by step with you....and what a difference it made. Thanks for all your help. Keep the videos coming.
Back in high school I had used a collet chuck on a project and always wonder how they were put together. Needless to say MR. Symonds would not let me take it apart to check it out....lol Thanks for showing an old guy how this finely works.
I watch you folks to learn how to wrench better, think over problems, and to problem solve in general. Got stuck on a bent welded steel gate hinge today. Tried zipping the hinge pins all off, but not until a total stranger tried to help, did I get out of my jam. All the tooling and machining channels are full of physics, math, and chemistry knowledge. Don't stop learning folks and know when to accept help! Thanks James!
Press in zerk fittings are called "drive type" you can get them at SAE Products, Zerks Plus, Grainger, McMaster-Carr, or M. Brown fitting specialists. Yesterdays Tractors has a few threads on how to remove or install them. I'm used to seeing this type on larger machines but in areas that are not in a normal traffic area of the machine, or well recessed.
Brilliant video, James. Thanks. While Gunsmithing I love Simple Green to break down the gunk and the Ultrasonic with Dawn dish soap and lukewarm water to remove it.
You are so well versed in a wide variety of skills that when you brought out the wool yarn, I though you'd just bought a sheep.
I bought a Crawford one yesterday this will be useful. Once you have a Camlock lathe you won’t look back. thanks James
" Don't turn it one, take it apart " is a thing in other circles.
Guys, I don't know if you noticed and maybe James might be brave enough to admit it, but I think he runs a discotheque, 70's style, when not filming a video. What'd think?😁 Love the episode. it is so Zen zone like to take a piece like that and make it up from a state, to a pristine condition.
You can also middle-click links instead of ctrl+click to open them in a new tab.
I'm very jealous and my lathe does have a D1-3 backing plate. Looks like you got a great buy.
Really informative…the only thing I might suggest is not to use grease …it just acts like a magnet for dirt and metal chips, and hardens over time…I recently bought an unused Pratt Griptru chuck vey cheaply because it was seized solid…upon stripping it down, the factory grease had set that hard it was like set varnish, and had to be scraped off, once it was cleaned out it works like a dream..
All I’ve ever used on lathe and drill chucks is a light oil like 3 in one, and have never had any issues. There are no high speeds and pressures on the parts that require a moly or specialist grease. It also makes any future rebuilds much easier..
Brilliant exposition of the timing of gears! Well done. Thanks!
7:44 - RIP little bug.
Next thing you know you will be getting a Hardinge HLV-H 😊 a joy to use
Ahhh!!!! and here I was waiting to see how good the concentricity was!
I was glad to get to see the insides of a collet chuck even though I will never own one. Thanks for the video keep on keeping on.
Now that you've got the door knob, it's time to get the rest of the door.
I haven’t finished watching yet but, If you don’t have a Horrible freight ultrasonic cleaner or another brand, they work great on chucks. You don’t even have to put it all the way in, just rotate it.
I'm fine with ultrasonic on disassembled stuff, but I wonder about fretting corrosion if close fitting parts get vibrated against each other.
Came here to make the "I have a lathe with a D1-3 spindle, send it to me in the post" gag, but I see others have beaten me to it ;)
I got the larger version for the big collets. Works nicely. It was all gummed up and wouldnt even spin because it was really hardened up in there. Great video. I really should get one of these.
James, very good video. Useful to see how these go together. Thanks.
I have a 2J unit. I had to make new grips for it as someone made replacements out of wood. I made them out of aluminum. Turned out good.
Nice work as usual James, one suggestion, after washing and rinsing steel parts why not use WD40 to displace all the water? After all that’s the original use for it.😊
About time you bought a PM 1340GT lathe
"Nothing really flash rusts in the climate where I am" .. meanwhile, here in the UK, I can watch things rust in real-time! 🤣
That's actually kind of cool, but I'm sure the novelty would wear off rapidly.
@@Clough42 We had a sudden (and unexpected) cold snap earlier in the year where the temperature swung from 10-15C down to below zero overnight and caused condensation on anything metal in the workshop.. I went back in there after a few days to find surface rust all over the mill vice and table, lathe chuck etc - fortunately not the slideways! The joys of humidity.
I do have a d1-3! I’ll gladly pay you for your time and initial outlay! And I just picked up a mostly complete set of collets recently
It looks a lot better than it did on Dale's table at the swap meet!!
Madge would approve.
Fantastic mate! Looking forward to seeing how accurate it is/you can get it!
You commented on only having one thrust rsce, but the thrust is only in one direction pulling the collet into the chuck.
You still need a hard race on each side. There was another race hiding in there.
@@Clough42 I meant when you looked at the drawing and said only one .
I dont have an ultrasonic cleaner but I presume you use dish soap in yours regularly. "Dawn" brand dish soap is great for grease and grime. One drop will clean three ducks :) Love those Hardinge Collet chucks... cool find and nice save
Aren't your ducks self-cleaning? Might be time for an upgrade!
@@somebodyelse6673Self cleaning ducks? 🥸🥸
Nice job
I did the same a few years ago when I got the same chuck.
I also didn't find that washer until I pulled it from the ultrasonic...lol
Quick tip.
clicking with the scroll wheel button on a link opens it in a new tab.
Yeah I really want to make a flat to d1_3 adapter for my lathe too. Since it's 5 inch chucks on mine and d1 seems to start at 6, I may make a mini D style adapter for all my plain back chucks.
Maybe use an ultrasonic toothbrush for parts cleaning?
@7:47 We saw you kill that little bug. >.>
Worst case if you can't find the felt seals that size you can buy sample packs of industrial felt from felt suppliers rated for seals and they give you several 4" pieces in different sizes, and you can just cut your own.
Thanks for the video... but now I have to find a 5C speed chuck
When you use the ultrasonic bath for cleaning, what is the optimal temperature? I understand that hot water is best for dissolving grease, but cavitation caused by ultrasound will not occur near the boiling point of water.
Any thoughts on the weight?
Spec. sheet advertises 19 lbs, but it doesn't look that heavy.
Looks like the next project will be a spindle adapter for the new chuck.
i bought a second one of these for parts (needed the hand wheel) and it was clear that someone couldn’t figure out that gear mesh and had ground away lots of material in trying to get it back together 🙄
You love to make I complicated !
For everything else other than the rubber you could have used brake cleaner and call it a day!!
That is quite the cliffhanger. Now we are still wondering about the concentricity of this chuck.
Yeah! Cleaned, lubed, and then...whoomp, whoomp, whoomp. ;)
BTW, I think James should have shot some fresh grease through the zerk while it was apart just to be sure there wasn't any grit lurking in there.
@@craigtreleaven7560Too late now. If there’s any dirt in there it needs to stay in there since James only uses oil.
I enjoyed the video as I always do. What brand of allen wrenches are you using during assembly? I like the round holder that they are stored in.
Hopefully you catch the guy who used an impact wrench on those bolts.
So, next project. New spindle for the lathe?!
Certain metals do indeed flash rust here, but it's usually gotta be sitting outside.
good
Squishing that bug there at 7:46? 😂
15:17 looks like a strand of the brush came off on the bearing race now forever trapped in the assembly.
I saw that in the edit and couldn't decide if it was a string of sticky grease or a bristle.
Get a Hardinge lathe for your chuck.
Thank you.
I found a can of military artillery grease, it's red grease. I don't know if that information is helpful to you or not.
You should try pine sol in the ultra sonic cleaner
Hope Mrs Clough 42 didn't object to you using her knitting yarn? 😂😂
... dish soap and toothbrush. 😉
I have a lathe with D1-4 spindle and it also have 3 studs. You might verify if it is D1-3 or D1-4 since D1-3 is not very common, but D1-4 is very common.
D1-3 is more common in older machines. I have a 10ee with a D1-3 spindle nose.
All of the Hardinge Speed Chucks I have seen which are Camlock (even though the spindle may have more than three stud holes on the camlock circle) use only three pins on the chuck. Same for Jacobs Flex Chucks. These are considered medium-to-light duty chucks.
If you ruin the rubber cover on the chuck I'd be interested how a TPU replacement would work on this part from your 3D printers.
It'd take years to find out what kind of goo it'll turn into. Also, the cross-section implies the rubber was overmoulded. Any replacement would need to be in two halves held together with screws. Screws in TPU might not be reliable. Nylon or something might work, maybe with nylon screws too.
Did you catch the dot on the smaller gear? I had to look for a while on mine till I flipped over the gear saw the dot, and the sun gear has two 0 marks.
"almost looks like somebody used an impact wrench on them" - hmm, I wonder what happened at @4:42 :)
So how did it measure after the clean? I would have stuck a grease gun on the nipple and pumped it through just in case I decided to grease it in the future. You wouldn't want to be pushing in crusty grease.
i kinda expected you to replace the thrustbearing but apperantly don't fix something thats not broken.
did the wife get her toothbrush back?
I think you should've cleaned the felt. It tends to accumulate all kinds of cutting products in them and act as abrasive themselves.
Yes, I was curious if the felt had gone into the ultrasonic cleaner, & if that works well, but did not see.. maybe the solvent & fresh oil is enough?
What are those hex L wrenches you’re using to assemble the chuck?? I love the anodized aluminum holder. I have wiha wrenches but the plastic holder doesn’t hold up too well.
Fireball Tool sells them.
Why did you buy a chuck that doesn’t fit your spindle? Can it be modified to fit?
probably make an adapter plate for it. I have to make one for my 4 jaw when I get the chance
Any idea where I can get a thrust bearing for one?
I have the same unit, the 5c female threads were worn so I rebuilt, video is on my channel…..
Try Dawn dish soap it something else for cleaning
If I had gone to a store, I would have bought Dawn--not because I believe it's better, but because I remember their commercials after the Exxon Valdez spill.
👍
The technical term for the gooey stuff inside is "smoodge."
👍👍😎👍👍
13:33 Supplies from your other hobby?
I don't think there was any timing needed in reassembly, it's gear to gear reduction. Rotary in motion.
That’s what I thought too but evidently it does require timing. Does anyone know why?
Next time when cleaning old chucks, after disassembly, put them in the dishwasher with mild soap. I'm sure the wife won't mind, and if so, it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission.
I have a lathe with a D1-3 spindle. Just saying…
I was a mechanic in a factory for about 10 years and dealt with all kinds of grease fittings and I'll tell you what, press in are the worst style. Once there messed up there's no fixing anything about them. You just have to drill and tap for the pipe thread kinds. And hope you don't over drill into anything important behind it. They're just awful and they never seem to be as robust as the threaded ones.
That stuff is definitely weasel snot.
FWIW, I've had REALLY good luck with ZEP HD floor stripper for cleaning stuff like this. It will remove / dissolve some paints and definitely use rubber gloves.
you need to try ballistol that stuff works like magic on most stuff out there even dogs paws