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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มิ.ย. 2024
- I was shown this product about 6 months ago and purchased one to try out. This is a review of said product
These are Amazon affiliate links to the parts I am using.
ER20 Bearing Nut
amzn.to/3uJFBXT
ER25 Bearing Nut
amzn.to/3RjFsn6
ER 32 Bearing Nut
amzn.to/3SZ54a7
ER40 Bearing Nut
amzn.to/46CB076
When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this channel earning a commission - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I bought one, it was binding up; not rotating freely. The runout was also all over. Contacted the seller and got a replacement that behaved almost the same. Investigated the function and it turned out that adding three balls to the race and also preventing the grub screw (that seals the ball entry) from reaching all the way in to the race fixed the problem. So two nuts made one functioning. Or if you could source extra balls of the correct dimension...
sadly not all tooling is created equally and some import tooling is just BAD. That is why I always go with a seller that has free returns when buying budget tooling. My experience with this seller and the quality has so far been outstanding. Thanks for the heads up.
I ran a production wood shop for years. Our CNC routers used ER32 collets. The size used most of the time was a wear item, replaced every year with high quality items. Tooling was always set using a torque wrench in a bench fixture to insure proper tightening. That also reduces stress on the system. Premium collets reduce runout of the tool and will therefore increase tool life. A $100 coated router bit (Onsurd) will last two days of production cutting abrasive materials. $7 or $8 per hour tooling cost. Cheap, considering all the other costs. Not worth using cheap parts or tooling. A hobbyist will never know or care what his cost per hour is but will fight accuracy issues.
I'm retired now and play with my metal machining. I buy mostly import stuff so I can have more or less complete sets. I really like my 5C chuck. I can work really close to the collet with my hands for polishing, no danger even if my fingers rub the chuck. I've got a "key" in a battery drill if I'm changing collet sizes a lot. I've got an internal stop for repeated work that is relatively accurate. It takes a lot of collets to have a full set. I've got several hex and square collets also. One of the greatest things about collet chucks is being able to hold threaded parts W/O damage to the threads. Also have collet blocks & a spin indexer that I've modified by reversing the end holding the collet. It's true that 5C won't hold as tightly as ER, but good enough if you use your head. The biggest disadvantage for hobbyist is the # of collets required to cover the full range.
I also have the ER40 system. Set-Tru type lathe chuck, & R8/ER40 holder for the mill. A set of collets by 1/32s. Most of the time I use the R8 collets on the mill and if turning small work, the 5C chuck on the 1440c lathe. Have fun. Be safe!
As you said the rules for a production shop and a hobby shop are totally different. Even with budget tooling and things lasting a long time it's amazing how fast the costs for tooling add up.
Thanks for the honest review
My pleasure
great information.....thanks, Paul
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks man! Really helpful.
Glad it helped!
I had not heard of these- have now got one on order...
glad I could help!!
agreed have used them for about 8 yrs and does exactly what you said
They ar ea big improvement for sure!!
I use er 40 and er 32 collets and have sampled 4 bearing collets nuts, three of them do not engage the collet correctly, reducing accuracy, not extracting the collet, and in one case damaging the collet … I like the one that works (an er 30) but my experience with the er40 collet nut has soured me on the low cost bearing nuts
getting bad tooling can really suck. that is why I always do "free returns" if I am ordering budget tooling. Usually sellers of bad product don't offer free returns and its a little extra insurance. get it home and test it and if its not good, send it back
Thanks, I’ll give one a try. Cheers, Stuart 🇦🇺
I'm very happy with mine!!
Nice info. Thanks.
glad you liked it!!
Just found your channel and Subscribed. Very nice work
Welcome aboard!
Also very handy if you are using an endmill as a boring bar or radius endmill and need to keep one the cutting edges parallel to the bed as you tighten the nut!
good to know
I just got an er32 and 40 collet chuck that uses a backing plate so you can pass material through. Pretty cheap too
I upgraded to an ER40 lathe chuck
Sounds great. I'll have to see if they have them in er25 size.
One question I have of you is why haven't you made a collet chuck to fit your style spindle/chuck mount that will allow you to pass long stock through the lathe headstock? They're easy to make and they'll be acurate to your lathe. You dont have to grind them to size, just careful machining will get you better than 0.0003 depending on your collet and spindle accuracy.
There is a link to the ER25 size nut. To answer your question I have not made a collet chuck because the 3 and 4 jaw chucks I have work for most things and if I do need to use collets in the spindle its small stuff. The bigger issue is time, something I don't have a lot of so making tolling cuts into other projects especially when it is something that would be nice to have BUT I really don't need.
Tooling for a CNC environment with ATC, can use either top or bottom spline option. Having run a machine for 5 years, I am inclined to go for the top one. Think it might have less slippage and mashed knuckles.
Thanks for the info
FYI you can get bearing nuts with the splines on the top end too.
Good to know, thanks for the heads up. Are they as budget friendly as the ones I’m showing? Just curious.
@@dazecars Hi, this guy beat me to it. Yes, they are budget friendly ones, at least over here. eg ArcEuroTrade Type B. I have two and I agree, they are great. For good measure I also bought a clamping fixture for the mill collet chuck. Before getting these two aids I have had end mills slip with rather annoying results. Cheers.
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Hi. I have an old HF H007 3in1 that I need to tool up for. Just the starter basic stuff. I have and empty MT2 bore (mill). I'm looking at ER32 collet set. I also need a draw bar. Yours looks like a bolt. How long is it? Looks like a machined something near the head? Or how do I properly size one? Depth from the bottom of the MT2 bore? I assume 3/8-16. McMaster has 12" Grade 8. Lastly I'm looking at Vevor vises. Swivel? 4", 5" ? What is a good size?
I love your channel. thanks
The MT3 and draw bar in my video are to use in the lathe spindle. thats why I machined a shouldered collar to go on the other end. My millhead used R8 but a lot of the older HF machines were MT. All you should need is a bolt long enough that has the correct threads to match the MT collet holder you choose. I have a 3" vice and a 4" vice. I think 5" would be a little large. There is a group on Facebook for combo machines. If you come join I can share pix and other information more easily. facebook.com/groups/168134035160655 Glad you like my channel.
Ball bearing caps are good. But some companies such as Technika, which I have, has a coated nut which is supposed to be as good as the bearing caps, or better. I’ve got both, for my mill, and it’s hard to tell the difference, but I can get just a bit more torque with the coated cap. If you’re going to get these things, get a really good one, as a good deal of the collet centering comes from the cap. Remember that if the bearing isn’t good, then the centering will be off and will get worse as the bearing deteriorates over time. A good bearing of that size can cost significantly more than the cap itself.
I can see where a low friction coating would have a similar result. My concern would be durability of the coating especially if you missed a chip and it got inside. How does it seam to be holding up?
@@dazecars so far, after three years, using it a fair amount, very well. Yes, you have to keep it clean. But then, since the cap determines the concentricity of the collet, you have to keep them clean, no matter what design they have. So that shouldn’t be an issue.
@@melgross agreed on keeping it clean, I was just thinking about that one moment, tired or thinking of something else and a chip gets missed. Three years indicates good durability.
I bought one that looks exactly the same as yours and the runout was twice as bad as the standard.dont know if I got a dud but that turned me off them
That is a risk with any budget tooling. However this seller offers free returns (part of why I ordered from them in the first place) so if it is not up to spec you can return it. I think yours was likely a fluke however as the seller has excellent feedback and mine were all good.
Great video, this is a no brainer. Anytime you transfer load inline vs. from rotation the alignment is better and the force to accomplish is less.
Thanks for sharing.
Glad you liked it!!
I just love the ER collet system. It’s so far superior to the old R8 & C5 collets, I’m surprised it’s not more common.
I purchased a 5C collet chuck and hated how long it took to tighten it down. Very inefficient so I sent it back
@@dazecars 5C was designed for larger lathes where you can use a collet closer. Super fast and you can even change parts with the spindle running. Those 5C chucks are kinda a kludge. They work, but barely. I don't blame you for sending it back.
ER and 5C came from different directions. 5C was, and still primarily is, a work holding collet. ER was, and is no longer, designed as a tool holding collet. 5C is really too big and clunky to build into something like a milling machine spindle, and the actual segment of the collet that flexes and compresses parralel to the bore is small and out at the tip of the collet, so clamping something like a milling cutter it is much more likely to spin. 5C collets also have a very small clamping range.
ER collets basically came about as a descendant of the double angle collets (which are still used) which can hold tooling with a fairly small diameter holder that doesn't get in the way as much. ER collets hold tighter than DA collets, and can mostly match the DAs for smallness. But when ER collets ran into real machinists they discovered that most of the advantages for tool holding were not disadvantages for work holding. Now many of the duties of specialty collets, like the Jacobs rubber flex things, can be performed by a more versatile set of ER collets. The huge growth of hobby machining also gives the ERs a boost, in a hobby shop fewer sets of collets to perform all the functions is a huge advantage, where in a pro shop products that do just a single thing, but do it extremely well, are worth the price.
The one place that ER loses out is the milling collet block. It is advantageous that the ER block for the same diameter as 5C (ER 40) is shorter, it is advantageous most of the time that it tightens from the front, but the nut on the ER is bigger than the block, so it has to stick out of the vise jaws. The 5C collet block can be clamped anywhere in the vise jaws. This is really advantageous if you want to clamp the block at an angle, where the nut on the ER block makes it more difficult to clear the nut and still get a firm grip on the block with the vise. However, if you get the ER set up at your angle you can run multiple parts without moving the block, but the 5C needs to come out to loosen/tighten the collet. Unless of course you can actually get at that lever clamp thing, but at an angle that is unlikely.
So, tldr: I don't think it is fair to say the ER is far superior, it is fair to say that the ER is a good collet system with great versatility. As always, the best choice when choosing between collet options is "both".
@@dazecars That is chuck style dependent. The 5c chucks with the chuck key closure are that way, you have to spin the actual nut multiple revolutions to tighten the collet in, which is terribly inefficient with a pinion style key. It is like closing a drill chuck from wide open to mostly closed using the key the whole way. The lever closer style collet chucks are probably the quickest chucking method available that doesn't include air or hydraulic fluid. The 5C chucks that have the steering wheel ring on them to tighten them are less trouble than a 3 jaw chuck, you start the collet, give the handle a spin, then tighten it up. So yeah, 5C experience depends more on the chuck than on the collets.
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I have been using the bearing style nuts for over 5 years now..... they're definitely a big improvement over a standard friction closing nut.
As you say poor quality bearing nuts are pretty much useless so buy from a reputable seller and all will be good.
I am glad that there are opportunities to purchase budget tooling with "free returns" It takes all the risk out of import tooling and you can end up with some quality parts and some import tooling is very good.
for ER11, the bearing type nut is about 4 times the price of the whole collect chuck
for a hobbyist, this seems impractical
Buy once cry once 😁 but also everyone’s budget is limited so you must choose if it’s worth it or not. I could see it likely being less beneficial on smaller collets.
I have worked with premium collets that for the most part have zero runout and loads of accuracy. For my home hobby I purchased three of the bearing style collet nuts to use with my budget ER32 collets and I did a little bit of testing to see if I could improve the runout using the bearing style nuts. I did notice an improvement in the reduction of runout provided that removed any burrs, thoroughly cleaned the collet and the collet holder and checked the runout using a DTI and a precision ground rod. Using stock raw material to check runout will give you mixed results and make you rethink the accuracy of the collet. Just my two cents.
Thanks for the real world feedback, that is great!!
True. raw stock is never round. It can damage the collet eventually.
@@melgross I prefer turning a small section of the raw stock to a known size using the 3-jaw the swapping out the 3-jaw to use a collet chuck and then going from that point. It’s probably overkill in prep work but I’m retired and I have plenty of time on my hands, unless my GF loads me up with a bunch of honey do’s
@@taranson3057 it’s never overkill to get something right. I’m a bit anal myself at times. Other times I’ve learned to not overdo it. But it’s a good idea to do that. While 5C collets are designed for stock, for example, which may not be sized, or really round, it’s interesting that ER collets, which are designed for tooling only, are being used on lathes as workholders for RAW stock. Really, not the best idea ever. Same thing for DA collets. Toolholding only.
@@melgross yes, I know that ER32 collets are for tooling but I use mine on a mini lathe to make small parts and they tend to hold better than the 3-jaw. I did consider just going with a 5C collet chuck but they are expensive and social security doesn’t provide enough funds to cover my hobbies
the bearing nut has a higher torque setting than the slotted nut- look it up !!
I am not exactly sure what you are trying to tell me. I don't torque it to spec, I just tighten it down.
solution to an invented problem... I have regular ER nuts that are more than 20 years old and besides the fading black oxide, they look pristine on the collet bearing surface, which is all I care about
no special care has been given to these, wd40 spray when I put them in the drawer to prevent corrosion, that is about it, wipe clean before use, residual oil seems to be all that is necessary
besides - they are consumables, if you use them that much that they wear out, you have done enough work with them to justify a new one, every 20 or 30 years...
and on top of all this, I don't think that adding 2 more bearing surfaces and ball size irregularity really improves seating precision, it is easy enough to tap the regular nut while indicating on the tool to get it to run true if the collet is any good that is, and the holder itself, mind you this is to get them run true to less than 0.02mm, or 1 thou
I will concede to your 20 years experience that I do not have. As I said in the video whether or not it adds accuracy is up for debate. With those two things said for me the easier tightening and loosening coupled with the increased clamping force are what making it such an improvement in my shop. I have no doubt what you are using works well but to say it is not necessary without actually trying it might not be the best approach. 😁
They don’t increase accuracy. Coated and bearing caps are only for easier tightening and giving greater torque. Techniks states that their coated ER 40 cap allows for 130 ft/lbs of torque, which is quite a lot. You can’t possible come close to that with a standard cap.
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The er32 size is too expensive, its $50 😢... Badly need one of this but its over priced
Its $32.95 on the link I posted
Not “less than $20” anymore. It’s $33 now.
thanks for the heads up
The collet still moves inward as you tighten, so there's still movement. The collet gets smaller, and moves inward in the taper. Collets, and tapers, are wear items, like so many things in the shop. Also, getting swarf into the bearings here (inevitible) will reduce accuracy, assuming (doubtful) that this thing is made accurately in the first place. What's your MEASUREMENT to assert that it's tighter. I'd say it might be easier to tighten, but not that it gets tighter. If the thread pitch is the same, and you turn it the same amount, it's the same tightness, right? When you say CONFIRMED, you need data, not conjecture. This looks like a hammer looking for a nail to me.
I appreciate your feedback. Yes there is still movement as the collet is pressed into the holder BUT it is only in one direction and parallel to the collet slits which will reduce wear thats just common sense. The fact that it is by nature a "wear item" is not a good argument at all. Just because it is consumable doesn't mean getting an extra 5% life out of it doesn't have benefit. A far super argument against the virtue of reduced wear came on another comment. He said it took him 20 years of regular use to wear out a collet with a standard nut. If you need a new tool ever 20 years, adding an extra 6 months is not in and if itself worth the upgrade. I would say a wear improvement is marginal. The holding power is not. Ironic that you use a word like "conjecture" (an opinion or conclusion formed on the basis of incomplete information) as you have formed this detailed opinion without having tried the bearing nut. Yes the potential holding power with both nuts is the same BUT with the same amount of pressure from the wrench the bearing nut will tighten down further because of the reduced friction. Things will also seat better as movement is only in one direction. I agree measurements would have been more conclusive but observation is also a valid form of data collection especially when the improvement is significant. Read through the comments you will see lots of people coming to the same conclusions I have. It is not like I purchased this nut with a video in mind. I got it 6 months ago because someone said it was "better". I put it through its paces and CONFIRMED it was better, and Then decided to do a review. No forgone conclusions or a situation of a "hammer looking for a nail"
Front closing collets don’t change position the way rear closing collets must.
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Thank you! o7
You're welcome!