PAKISTAN INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ค. 2020
- A detailed look at the accessory drive gear box and what investigators will be looking for.
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Amazing how the news has changed with TH-cam. Rather than relying on journalists that have little knowledge of the topic I can get detailed review from a career pilot. It is amazing that I get 10 times the information here on plane crashes than any other news channel, just like the 737 crashes with the MCAS. Really folks like Juan.
We can only wish the networks would talk to Juan
Reece Drystek Those that know about a particular topic are the best at reporting about said topic. The regular mainstream media are illustrating their irrelevance for all to see throughout the world.
Not just more info but also correct info from someone who understands what's going on. No fault of journalists for trying but they just don't have enough knowledge to always report things accurately.
Brett Davis it’s really too bad the executives and producers allowed this to happen to their news rooms.
MSM = CIA
This it the most sane video series i have seen on this crash since yesterday. Salute to you.
Love from Pakistan all the way.
Deep condolences to all the families who lost their loved ones in this tragic crash.
I listened to the ATC communication, sounded like there might have been some miscommunication or misunderstanding. Didn't the controller tell him his plane engines were damaged. I saw the crash site in town. Very raw footage. Very sad. God rest their souls. Two out of 107 may have lived.
Yeah 2 lived
There seemed to be some comms confusion with ATC on the initial approach, VAS has the recording, it's almost like the pilots were busy doing something else.
ATC calls them 5nm at 3500’, should be 2000’ or slightly lower at 5nm, they were very high and no way established on the ILS, master caution chime most likely AP being taken out as there was no way AP could capture the ILS. There is no way in hell you can be stable at the normal gates from being that high. Unstable Approach, deep/fast landing followed by botched go-around... Tragic and totally avoidable if they went around at 1000’ as I’m sure their company rules would state.
Yeah I though I was strange ATC didn’t seem to see or mention damage
@@swerwerindiewind7334 what they did is like the worst botched landing in the history of flight.
So sad especially given so many people are going home to see their families for the end of Ramadan. Thanks for your analysis. RIP the passengers and crew and condolences to their families and all who loved them.
Your yesterday’s update was so helpful and made sense why RAT was out and how engines were damaged.
I don’t understand why TH-cam demonetized this. There’s nothing graphic, or disturbing about it. I’ll be going to patreon to help out. Keep up the good work Juan!
Demonetized probably due to the 'sad content'. I'm proud to be supporting Juan via Patreon for the last 6 months, for all the factual news he presents. I subbed during the Orville dam incident, and have been an avid viewer since. Good work Juan.
@Gianluca Badejo Like all the major news networks do all of the time? But maybe you somehow missed the 24/7 Corona porn frenzy of the last few months.
I suspect it's a rule they introduced to counter all the clickbaity "See this shocking air crash caught on video!!! Hundreds dead!!!! You won't believe what happens next! 10 worst plane crashes ever!!!" rubbish that swamps TH-cam, and serious posts like Juan's get caught in the fallout.
it's because it doesn't fit in with their progressive hugbox ideology, and the only people youtube wants to make money are the people they directly allow to. everyone else gets to chase the carrot of ad revenue while getting the capricious stick of demonetization
Oh for goodness sakes support this channel and go give 20 bucks to Paypal. Enough whining about a private company's rules on selling ads on tragedies - a private company that provides a free platform for a bazillion videos.
thanks Juan for the update, in the video you explain with details how the gear box operates, I work in a accessories repair station as a QC inspector and i'm familiar with generators, fuel pumps, fuel flow trasnmitters etc, but i did not have the best idea how everything worked together as a system, i'm familiar most with instruments and avionic for many years, once again thanks for the accessories class.
the management of youtube have turned their company into a dumpster fire.
Agreed.
Thank Google and the radical liberals amongst us. But I really don't understand why they mess with Juan.
TH-cam need to have a good look at themselves, they are stifling people presenting factual content in a level and non confronting manner, but allow what amounts to soft porn exploitation by some people.
Woman running it - what would you expect but scatterbrained policy.,decisions and deception regarding who they really serve? Rather than focus on rewarding quality content and professional time spent on content creation, they kiss the asses of advertisers and promote lamestream media channels for such information - channels that do not have EXPERTS on the subject doing the reporting. If there's quality on a channel, it's not the advertisers in the driver's seat, but the CREATORS.
The humanist socialists at YT only require us to have Party Approved Correct Thinking and Speech.
Thanks from Pakistan for detailed and in-depth analysis
We are seeing the news of 2 survivors...
@@francisschweitzer8431 Ironically, everyone is just talking about the plane survivors. This plane crashed into residential houses in a congested colony and there were casualties on the ground as well.
I am also pakistani safe 2 only this victim
@@francisschweitzer8431 yes miraculously
Our prayers to the families. With the devastating floods and then this accident our hearts are with them. God bless.
Pakistan is having a devastating flood?
There's no flood in Pakistan
It was in west Bangal not in Arabian sea
Perhaps if God had blessed them before the accident then your thoughts, prayers and wishful blessing might not be needed...just a thought.
@@Drummer2020 what an unnecessary thing to say! God never promised us there wouldn't be accidents.
"watchgoose5 minutes ago
@crumpledforskin what an unnecessary thing to say! God never promised us there wouldn't be accidents."
Maybe check out what Sir David Attenborough has to say about the African children that lose their sight thanks to a little worm?Your god`s plan? Please also show respect to the atheists that may have been onboard & their families
I would like to see a picture of the strike point on the runway.
I would like to see the video of what was happening in the cabin of pilots
According to Avherald, the scrape marks are over 2000 feet long on the left, somewhat less on the right, and located in the mid portion of this long runway.
@@markmd9 they don't video that. But there will be the CVR to hear.
Agreed. Never heard of anything like this. A skip and a hop back up. To bad. Sorry for all the loss to the families of this.
@timemachine_194 thanks, very informative
Thank you Juan. Great explanation. We grieve with the families. Prayers for those that survived.
I have never been interested in flight or planes, ever but found your videos and am totally interested in everything you show and explain. Great vids 👍🏻 I’m happy to learn new things.
Good attitude!
This guy is incredible....found him after ethiopia crash
Same...I first found Juan talking about the damaged dam out in California a few years ago and followed him because I liked the way he takes time to explain things for the average person but doesn't dumb anything down. My husband is interested in airplanes and because we have a family premium youtube, my likes could be seen by my husband and he started watching Juan as well.
@@stefkadank-derpjr1453 Couldn't agree more.
Always a great job Juan. Thanks for your service to the aviation community.
Thanks Juan...my husband and first born son are also Juans. My husband started flight lessons just as we were pregnant with our 4th child. Because we had a house payment, montessori school, orthodontics etc... flying is not cheap and because I twisted myself in knots with worry, I begged him to put flying on hold. Now his gets enjoyment from your videos. He is a typical dude...into the way things works and still into aviation. Lots here for a guy like him to nerd out on. My heart hurts for those who have had to suffer this tragedy and while commercial aviation is safe....general aviation makes me worry. My husband is kind of a genius (imho) he plays music, does beautiful paintings. He can repair everything from the computer to setting a new electric panel in our guest house BUT....he is easily distracted and as his woman, I knew he wasn't pilot material and that's okay. He's got some flying hours under his belt...he loves to tell anyone who will listen what a natural he was at flying. Once our kids were grown and we had more available cash and he started hinting that he might like to fly again....I got him distracted with honey bees and tending hives. Bro...you're 58...your eyes are not that great anymore....you do not need to be flying again unless it's with Delta or Southwest. Georgia to Santa Fe sounds GREAT.
Hi, plz note that the CFM56 Engine model and it’s accessories gearbox (AGB) shown by you in the video is application on B737 aircraft, which has AGB mounted on the left side due to low ground clearance. It’s radial drive shaft comes out from 9 O’clock position and the AGB is between 6 and 9 clocks position. However, on A320 the same CFM56 application is with a different dash number engine model whose AGB is at the bottom of the engine and radial driveshaft comes out from the 6 O’clock strut of the fan frame.
So does that then mean that a catastrophic crushing of the engines during runway contact as in this case, could/would probably irreparably damage these gearboxes resulting in total failure in relatively short order (minutes, or less)? If that is so, why would someone have designed a physical placement of these ESSENTIAL SYSTEMS in a location NOT PROTECTED from damage during runway contact? AFTER ALL, landings WITHOUT landing gear deployment is NOT unheard of, and should therefore have be properly considered in the design phase!
@@jhfowler2326 Yes, bad design.
No the AGB on almost all engines is at 6 O’clock position- some below the fan and some under the core engine where they manage to get enough space. Only B737 due to low ground clearance couldn’t be accommodated under the fan case. But it’s not a design issue as you’re supposed to land on the landing gears. That’s why landing gear has an alternate extension method if the normal one fails to extend it.
I imagine that the sudden shock forces on a driveshaft spinning at 19,000rpm would be enough to chew up the teeth on the gears at each end of it. If not shatter the shaft completely
That kind of thing happened to me on the discharge pump in a tanker truck the pump seized the shaft got split in half @ 800rpm, now imagine the inertia of 19000rpm
Of course the mounting ears and fasteners are of sufficient size and strength to cause deformation of the turban casings also causing engine failure
There is an engineering fail point on the shaft. ( Shear Point). It is of a higher torque the the other shafts as it’s not the one you want to replace.
And I'm sure one of the "accessories" is the oil pump for the bearings. No oil = seized bearings
Eastern Woods it takes a long time for the engine bearing to seize from oil starvation. Maybe 10-15 min. They aren’t like car bearings. You hit section bearings will fail first from heat. Seen tons of them. The radial drive shaft might break a few teeth off the radial gear box inside of the fan case deflected enough. More than likely it would be the fuel pump shafts shearing that would cause such an immediate failure. The fuel control is bolted to the back of the fuel pump and the share one shaft from the gearbox that’s drives them both. Where the shaft goes in the gearbox it has a shear point stated in another post. It is about a 1/2 diameter shaft the for about an inch is whittled down to about 1/4” or less diameter. When the mec or fuel pump size it keeps the entire engine from stopping so you can return to the runway while windmilling the engine to maintain positive oil pressure in the engine after the engine is shut down. If the gearbox stops all the accessories will stop. Either way when the fuel pump shears the engine stops completely immediately. If both engines had the same failure both engines would stop. Hydraulic pressure electrical and oil pressure issues can last for maybe 30 min with out causing the engine to stop and plane to be controlled. Fuel distribution issues stop it right away
It's amazing that 2 passengers survived this crash. Thank-you for the updates, Juan.
Valerie Griner, it truly is amazing. I’ll be interested in seeing the mechanics of how they survived...their seat placement relative to forces, fire, etc. Those two men experienced the equal and opposite extremes of luck-incredibly good luck for surviving; incredibly bad luck for being on board this flight. What a tragedy for all the victims.
My father was in France during WWII. He told me this following story. When the P-47 took off the pilot would pull the gear up handle then hydraulic pressure would slowly build up and the landing gear would slowly rise and go up. Now the pilots wanted to be cool and the landing gear slowly going up wasn't cool. So the pilots would pull the gear up handle while the plane was still on the ground. No problem here because the plane was still on the ground so ht e landing gear would not retract while on the ground. But the hydraulic pressure would build way up so that once the P-47 did take off that the landing gear would snap up real fast. Impressing all the other pilots and showing everybody else he was a cool pilot. So my father was watching a P-47 take off one day. The pilot must wanted to be cool so he must off pulled the gear up handle while still on the ground. So the p-47 is making it's takeoff roll and is going really fast but not quite yet at it's takeoff speed. The P-47 hits a bump on the runway and bounces up a foot or so. The landing gear snaps up real fast showing everybody on the ground that the pilot is real cool. But the P-47 isn't quite yet at takeoff speed so it settles on the ground with it's belly. The big old paddle blade prop going Chomp Chomp Chomp taking big chunks out of the runway as the P-47 slides down the runway till it stops.
That pilot just pissed off the maintenance chief for sure. Not something you want to do.
Cool story
My father flew Spits. He'd get to almost take off speed, fold the undercarriage up, and grease off. The Indian pilots would try to copy. A couple of them simply augered in. My hard bastard father found this amusing. So he says.....um, said.
CW Lemoine has a video on his channel where an F22 pilot may have done something similar.
Amazing that their commanders let them do this.
With all the nonsense and comments on TH-cam and other Media from people who pretend to be experts, it is refreshing to see someone who actually knows what he is talking about!
Good work on all your videos. As an instructor on the A320, I can appreciate your knowledge.
Keep up the great work! And shame on TH-cam for their attitude
I agree JP. Stay safe. 🙏🏼
Demonitized, wow, does anyone in Big Tech want the truth of events comming out, shamefull.....thank you for presenting anything airplane relevant so professional and complete Jaun! My hat is always off to you!😍😊
This has to do with advertisers not wanting to put their ads in tragic situations or in controversial events. seriously this has nothing to do with TH-cam or big tech and all these conspiracy theory morons need to get their head out of their ass and think logically. Let me advertise my hotel and resort vacation package on a video where 300 people die yeah sounds smart
Thanks, I second that. These videos must be hard to make.
TH-cam's over the top censorship creates more conspiracy theorists than Alex Jones ever did imo.
I hadn't seen the damage on the engines before this... the pieces are starting to come together in this horrible tragedy. Thanks for putting this together
I saw that photo early on and I thought it was soot ... but when Juan zoomed in on it .... oh wow!!
I wish we had better pictures; I'm guessing the black is leaked oil, but I can hardly make out nacelle/cowling damage. And who the hell designs the layout of the aux. equipment so close to the ground!?
@@wim0104 Well if you forget to land with the gear down what do you expect? Emergency situation where you have total failure of the primary and secondary hydraulic system to the point you could not lower the gear (even manual lowering) is a failure of a completely different situation.
@@evilload Juan is deliberately avoiding the natural question: if forgetting to lower the landing gear "is extremely rare in commercial aviation," what other reason could there be for such a tragic shortcoming? Is it possible that the plane itself fails to signal its unpreparedness to touch down? But in the previous video there is an alarm sounding in the cockpit.
@@evilload 3⁵⁶u
Brilliant and thank you so much for educating us the lay people. Your input will go a long way towards ensuring that there are no cover ups. Frankly no one had any idea about the engines striking the ground till your video became public. Changed the equation
Hey JB, I realize we have to wait for the recorders, but you've prepared us to understand the various parts and pieces that may be involved.
Once again condolences to those lost and their families. 🙏🏼🙏🏼
th-cam.com/video/66DUJH_tbic/w-d-xo.html
Thoughts to all the Families .. Thanks for the informed comments..
Ooo
Thanks for the update!! Condolences to all affected families who have lost loved ones. Prayers of recovery to those who survived.
Thank you Juan!! You are such a good teacher!! You have increased my understanding of this accident. Condolences to the families of those on board this flight and on the ground.
Wow, those engines took a beating. Appreciate all your videos Juan! God bless the families and friends of this accident. Come on YT Get your act together!
Thank you, Juan. I learned a lot.
My heart goes out to the folks that were on the plane and their families.
Thanks for the update and detailed explanation of the accessory gearbox. 🙏🏻 for the families.
That's just amazing. I don't remember ever hearing of a gear up landing or scrape like that in a commercial airliner. Thanks Juan.
Note that he points out it MAY have been a gear DOWN landing. @2:36
Thanks Juan! That pretty much answered my assumptions on the accessory drive section.
Horrible situation no matter what happened.
Thanks for great job. It's amazing how long it takes to the general media to catch up with you.
If ever.
Catch up? They don't even know he left yet! They will never catch up.
thank you Juan. This is one for the record books....a lot of questions to be answered
Deeply saddened by this tragic accident. Prayers for the lost lives and thank you for this informative video
Juan, enjoy your videos a lot. I am an x A&P. But I worked on aircraft propellers for 25 yrs. Had a repair station license in Wa. State. Fixed pitch thru Small aircraft turbo props. Thanks again for your true and accurate reporting!
My condolences to the families. Im looking foward to finding out what the black boxes have to say.
th-cam.com/video/66DUJH_tbic/w-d-xo.html
@@Don-qb1vi it said :some heartless peoples
As always, a great explanation of facts and information to date. Thanks Juan; great job
Great information. - Such a superb contrast to the "news" on regular TV.
Thank you again Mr Browne. Your analysis are a great help. Looking forward to your next update.
Thanks so much Juan. Very much appreciate the quality content.
Thanks so much Juan, so very tragic!!
Thank you very much for your knowledge on this Juan. You are the one I look to for everything aviation. Love what you’re doing and keep up the great work. 2 thumbs up buddy.
I am very impressed with how thorough you are. Appreciate the respectful research.
Excellent analysis of the chain of events which could have led to the tragedy. The stresses from the initial damage must have resulted in catastrophic failures in the engines. Your assessment down to the component level explains it well.
Thank you for this great explanations!
Not blaming anybody, just putting together what is already visible.
We will see further details later.
What a sad tragedy!
Thank you for the rundown on what happened, please keep us all informed on any thing you hear. Thank you.👍👍👍👍👍
I know nothing about flying and aircraft but I'm loving this information. Thanks Juan. I've just subbed to your channel.
Awesome break down Jaun! Almost felt like I was back at Flight Safety with all those slides. Well done! 👍
There were a couple of survivors of the crash. One of them gave an interview to the media in Urdu. Roughly translated, he said that the airplane touched down, the felt it and then the pilot went back up and around.
Two survivors.
Thank you. Prayers for their recovery and families.
I think it would of turned out better if he left it on the ground. How long is that Runway?
@@Len_M. 3400 Meter
An airliner has a huge amount of mass it takes time for direction of travel to change form aerodynamic inputs to overcome the momentum of the mass moving in the direction it was currently going when the change was made so they may have started their climb out before the impact pack but momentum continue to carry the aircraft downward. The big question is why weren't the wheels extended?
Thank you for keeping us updated. Great presentation.
Thanks for the input Juan, your knowledge is priceless. Thanks for all you do
Thank You Juan!!
The Best Videos on TH-cam!!!
Interesting theory & observation from spotter photo -extensive👍 knowledge& detail provided, listened yesterday to audio.. RIP to the Souls on board.
Amazing the amount of time you put into this as well as all your investigations. Thank you, we do appreciate your efforts.
Thanks for the update Juan. Back in college I got to fly F/O on a DC-3 and encountered a now archaic term- balked landing. It differed from a go-around because the landing flare had begun. The procedure was the same whether or not ground contact occurred. There was much emphasis on achieving a climb and being certain that the climb was sustainable before retracting the gear (which in the DC-3 was more complicated than moving one lever).
Our heartfelt condolences to grieved families. Thanks for such a detailed & logical analysis
I had never heard of the R.A.T. and it’s function before yesterday’s video. It’s comforting to know such a backup exists, but also frightening considering the dire circumstances under which it is usually deployed. Very sad.
Most Transport category aircraft have had the Ram Air Turbine since the 80’s ? They were also deployed on early jet fighters. Brilliant simple piece of equipment riding on Free air. The Pilot Checklist was written in blood.
Gimli glider had it too
Sully had it deployed prior to his A320 goung into the Hudson.
R.A.T. also used during Air Transat (F-236/24 Aug 2001) fuel starvation incident.
@@dkd1228 The crew had the good thought of restarting the APU prior to ditching. Would the R.A.T. have still deployed with the APU also running? I'm not an Airbus, guy, so curious if system would have permitted.
Thank you Juan! Appreciate the insight, experience and expertise you bring to us.
Thanks for an excellent update. Good to have an experienced pilots perspective on events.
13k views in 48mins - Beast!!! Keep up the great job.
7:00 iirc from a/p school, the accessory drive shaft has a shear section specifically designed to break if torque exceeds a specified amount to prevent the accessory drive from ripping the whole engine off. These drives are supposed to break away on purpose, but of course the engine quits turning
are the engines designed with this same function as well?
The only thing is you wouldn't expect to lose both accessory drives at the same time. That's what seems to have happened here. Its likely they damaged both accessory drives and lost power on both of the engines.
Excellent technical commentary, thank you. And as always, highly respectful.
Thank you for your time and effort in bringing this video to us. Appreciate it. Love from Pakistan
i have been waiting for this all day long! honestly!
Thanks for the update, always interesting
Better than anything I've seen over the years regarding real time aviation news.... Thx
There will be many lessons learned and wake up call to all us non flying airline pilots during this down time to be extra vigilant and be ready for anything when we return to fly . Truly amazing the far reaching viewership JB has when one of the two surviving passengers gives amazing first person account only a day or so after almost dying .
I would have hoped that most airports have video on their runways, which would answer a lot of questions in this particular case.
I have a feeling its not going to be released to the public.
They do but it is not accessible to everyone else
There are very few of these incidents; it wouldn't be worth loading up thousands of airports with millions of dollars worth of weatherproof HD television systems.
@@jeffberlin4179 Cameras don't protect. Just provide evidence to determine what happened. th-cam.com/video/CwldRadrEvE/w-d-xo.html
Kenny Phillips--not that expensive.
Overtime my trust in you has continued. Appreciate your concern for accuracy of reporting and keeping your “non political” presentation. Looking forward hearing updates on the Pakistan tragedy especially landing gear issues. Wow, sad about all those lives lost.
Your trust continued while you were working overtime?
Pakistani authorities will never reveal the truth.
Great assessment of the accident, it’s helpful to get an early understanding of what may well have happened. Great job!
Great job! This is very helpful information in trying to understand what happened in this terrible tragedy and many other tragic events. Keep doing what you do. RIP to those who lost their lives.
Thanks for the excellent, factual reporting
Great info, Juan. Thank you. Sure beats the "information" provided by the CBC, here in Canada last night. Their report made no mention of the damage to the engines and just had some "expert" suggest that the aircraft very likely just hit a flock of birds. But anyhoo...now, I can certainly understand how those engines could have been terminally damaged in this incident.
Excellent analysis. You back up your analysis with pictures, videos, diagrams, schematics, and information/pictures from books. I have just subscribed...and look forward to more of your analysis. Please keep teaching/informing.
Outstanding analysis of what sounds like a likely scenario for power loss and stall. Thanks Juan!
Great work and helping once again.
Juan, thank you for you succinct explanations of incidents. May I also extend my sincere condolences for the families of those killed in this most recent aircraft crash. Fraser.
JB. Thanks for the update. Please keep us posted.
i looked at a few youtube channels about this crash, and this channel provided the most background information into probable cause. he uses his resources effectively to convey the information. this will be my go-to channel
we had a 737 in australia last year that forget landing gear..due to an observant atc controller disaster was averted
www.atsb.gov.au/publications/investigation_reports/2019/aair/ao-2019-051/
But the aircraft has alarms that go off in case of that unless some how they weren't working
jeez
Yikes! 🤯
@asdf after all this i bet they gonna add a different sounding or computer voiced failure for landing gear not properly extended..
Very informative, thank you!✈
Both videos posted by you are informative and provide explanation for aviation enthusiasts who do not have the technical knowledge. Merci!
First time that I have seen your channel and I like very much what you are doing there. Definitely will be watching regularly .
Rough subject. Well done, JB.
Juan, an Emirates situation is my main theory too, especially if they initially forgot to add thrust (like Emirates) but climber and raised the gear and then lost speed and started to descend and then they added thrust but too late to prevent ground contact.
What is extremely puzzling is that the scrape marks on the runway for both engines are about 1500 ft long!!!! No it was not a quick tap as you show in your introduction.
You give us understanding of the different parts that might be involved in the incident. Thank you for your excellent work
Thank you Juan for explaining the possible cause of this mishap in detail. Our heartfelt condolences go out to the families of the deceased.
Great informative video. Shame about the demonisation. Our thought are with the families of the passengers and crew. keep up the good work.
Excellent review as always. Thanks
Thanks for the update, it's now becoming clearer what happened.
Really appreciate the visual explanation of the systems in the engine.
Amazing explanation for a non aviator like myself but you explained so well that now i can easily overhaul A320 engine, blind folded
Juan supplies the BEST information available...
Hi Juan,
9,000 hours in the DC-8 with Emery Worldwide Airfreight. First started in the narrow engine dash 61/62 & 63 models. We then got re-engined "Cammacorp" DC-8s with the CFM56's. These aircraft (-71's, & -73's) initially had transitioning pilots scraping an outboard engine pod on a crosswind landing. Your first "tagged" pod got you 1 month on the beach. 2nd pod got you fired; until the chief pilot got his 2nd pod. True story. 777/FO/LAX
Just came across this channel after searching for news about Karachi plane crash.....and wow, what a channel. Subscribed.
Good Job Juan. We pilots always turn to you.
RIP
Sad to hear. Thanks for the info.
Thank you, Juan. Thank you for your brief and expert analysis.
I really like your videos. I came across them a few weeks ago by accident and I'm very impressed. Knowledgable by not speculative.