Toyota bZ4X and their e-TNGA platform | Hoist Review
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 เม.ย. 2024
- Sandy and Jordan pop the hood and then put the bZ4X up in the air to check out the undercarriage of the vehicle.
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#Toyota #bz4x #ev - บันเทิง
As an automotive enthusiastic Mechanical engineer, it is so refreshing to see ALL employees on Munro's company having such immense knowledge of assembly, manufacturing, fabricating practices & kudos to them for sharing this knowledge.
Great job Cory! Well done!
Hahahahahaa
No respect for age 😊
I like Jordans analysis and demeanor
Yep Cory's going to get a raise now!
They didn’t make the range, UI, aero, or self drive “work”, but man, they absolutely NAILED that fuel lid.🤣🤪
It’s the details that count. 😂
Also those panel gaps.
Add charging, frunk, performance, and cost.
That fuel lid transition is some of the ugliest design second only to id4 and Audis new plastic front grills. Damn they ugly
New motto for the lower third of the doors, when somebody puts on a racy paint job:
"Ya Gotta Start Somewhere!!"
The disappointment in Sandy leaving him nearly speechless at when they open the bonnet is spectacular.
:say something nice: :say something nice: :say something nice: oh oh dear ..
No, it was just his first time seeing it and he was taking it all in, trying to figure out what was going on where. I did the same thing, but he actually knows what he's looking at.
BZ4X plus e-TNGA = BZNGA
A winter test in Norway showed bz4x's average consumption of 19.81 kw/100km, which is less than Model X Plaid (21.4) Ioniq5(21.45) and EV6(22.18), for example. You should note that the issue with Toyota during those tests was not the efficiency of the car but false advertising of the WLTP range.
@@ODIECOLODIE lol 😂
"If you did a redesign of this, Toyota would be taking bags of money home." Sandy's comment basically sums up the entire car. Toyota has a long way to go in the BEV arena, but it's good to see them on board (at last).
They are not fully on board with their new CEO still betting on H2 instead of going fully committed BEV`s. It is tragic but they will disappear within this decade or shrink to irrelevance.
They aren't on board. They did this on purpose and out of spite to discourage anyone from buying EVs. When all the stuff on it fails that shouldn't fail they'll say "Well, we told you to go with hybrid or hydrogen." And then they're hoping to drum up bad press for battery EVs with this.
It's incompetence at best, spiteful sabotage at worse.
@@themonsterunderyourbed9408 Absolutely correct. This is the exact sentiment inside Toyota’s culture.
The EV market is like a speed boat race and Toyota are late to the party and showed up with their proudly invented rubber boat. 🤦🏻♂️
Maybe the next Toyota will get 300 mi on a single charge, LOL
Thanks Sandy and Cory 😂🤣
😂
Cory did a great job!
This is what Toyota should have put out 10 years ago as their first shot at an EV. Today they would be farther ahead and maybe be able to sell them. They squandered their hybrid lead.
no, they bluffed their way through. Just like the russians having an invincible army, toyota being a tech mecca has disolved into befuddled management.
Too busy chasing the hydrogen dead end
@@Ficon na hydrogen has a place. The infrastructure needs to be built out. And production needs to be cheaper.
@@iskdude9922 Great cryogenic propellant on space rockets, yes. In cars, it has a low energy density, low efficiency, prone to leaks, explosive, and burns with an invisible flame.
Not really. this car would almost be market leading 10 years ago along the model s. but this is much better than the first leaf and zoe. but maybe if this came 4-5 years ago, this would be competitive and Toyota wouldn't be so far behind!
Winter tests in Denmark and Norway showed that the BZ4X has a lot of trouble with range in cold climates, so the comments regarding the battery pack probably points to the cause of that.
But considering that this BZ4X (BS for short !!!) vehicle has a heat pump,
bad performance in winter was not expected.
I really wonder WHAT is good about this car. The tyres? 🤔
@@Stefan_Dahn plenty of scope for improvement?
Always great to see two engineers analyze what they see and think.
Well 3 if you count Cory 😜
BZ4X means 4 times the labor cost, way beyond zero.
😂🤡😎
also looks cheap and cluttered from underneath compared to Tesla model 3 and Y
But but but… tHE toyOTa prODUctIon syStEm !!!!1111
Start from zero and get better from there
"Beyond Zero" refers to the future EBITDA per car.
keep up the good work guys.
Thanks! Will do!
Nice review, thanks. If this is their first kick at the cat, it seems the cat has nothing to worry about.
It still has all 9 lives for more kicking
Only very few will kick at that cat......
I wear oversized boots to kick the cat.
Toyota first kicked that cat in 1997
I hate that Expression, kick at the cap (gas cap) makes a lot more sense for automotive
For some reason, seeing Sandy poking at the fusebox makes me think of a home video where the parents are talking and a toddler in the background is experimenting with sockets.
Thanks x 2, one for the vehicle review and one for helping me decide on the Y I drove home yesterday and knowing to ask for an Austin vehicle. Much appreciated
Great job gents, particularly Jordan, very smart young man who has such a depth of design and explains so well for our meer mortals to understand - im subscribing !!
Thanks!
Love my MY frunk especially for take-out, keep smell out the car.
Yes! Takeaway food, charging cables, wet umbrellas!
Jordan is an example of yet another super smart Munro team member. The Starfleet uniform prototype is a bonus feature! ;-)
So nice to listen to someone that knows how vehicle Industrial Design and engineering happens.
Grandpa's at it again. Holy doodle!!
5:18The added value for the frunk is possibility to store a charging cable,
something needed in Europe when using a public L2 charger.
Right on!
Clearly Munro in a tear down business, not repairs! Great video as always!
Efficiency
They have ratings for how long it lasts and the repair cost.
Those matter less if you don't make profit selling it.
Got some really sharp employees there to be proud of, Sandy. Keep up this open critique video methodology. I think the exposure allows the public to analyze these design flaws/features/fuckups they might not otherwise have that the car companies are fearful of. They (car manufacturers) fear a knowledgeable and informed customer the most.
THANKS SANDY AND CORY xxxxJORDAN,😁😎INTRO MUSIC 🎶
Great video! Being a Toyota mechanic it’s allways interesting watching a video like this.
Be careful lifting this vehicle. The lifting points you are using in this video are way off where they should be.
Keep the videos coming! Love your work 👍🏻
I noticed the same thing...
Are they? Only the front and rear central jacking points are shown in the owner's manual, but Toyota publishes a "bz4x 2023 do it yourself maintenance user guide" which shows the rocker-area lift points. Of course the service manual will show them, but I don't have access to that.
Unlike most models which are lifted on the rocker seam, the correct lift points are on the structure which flanks the battery and are marked by arrows. Of course there are no close-ups of the jack pad placement, so I can't tell if they're in the right spots.
_Update:_ Okay, I found an accidental close-up of one of the jack posts @20:42, showing it on the aluminum bottom cover plate, inboard of where it should be directly on the structural beam, between two of the lateral "W" braces. Yeah, that doesn't look good. Since they're still driving this for a while before destructively disassembling it you're right - they should be careful!
19:52 and 19:58 show the locations with the little arrows. They were close on the front but very off on the rear.
@Nack Wents thanks. The disturbing part is that they were inboard, onto a panel which is not supposed to bear the vehicle's weight.
@@brianb-p6586 that’s very fair. the disturbing part to me is that these are very smart car orientated people who got it wrong, how can we expect tire shops and quick turn mechanics to do better?
'you gotta start somewhere'
But, but, but, it's 2023 and this is the biggest car manufacturer in the world.
Suggestion: For this teardown there should be a contest for guessing how many bolts/fasteners in this vehicle. Whoever is closest gets some kind of giveaway. Perhaps a bucket of bolts.
Yes, the number of bolts reminds me the Rivian teardown.
@@nihongobenkyoshimasu3190 Toy-Ota "invented" the Bee Zed Four Ex only just for trolling Sandy. Not really a model for sale. 1st April we will see. For sure. 😉
Great job Jordan!
Thanks!
Great video!
Good to see the wheels didnt fell off👍🇳🇴
Would be interesting to hear the Munro guys talk about that. Why it happened?
@@mrm1885 wonder why they did not mentioned that they could've remouved a wheel and see what they did to remedy the problem compared to what it was .
Well, the car wasn't moving in this video, so I would hope the wheels would stay on. Seriously, Toyota did issue a statement that the wheel supplier did not meet the specifications set by Toyota (and Subaru.) Even if they found a solution, what an embarrassment!
"Sir we need to tighten a bolt"
"oh no, which one??"
I really enjoy Corey's, ahem... I mean Jordan's commentary. He always has rad tid bits to share.
"Spare Cory" explaining all the cool features, while Sandy tearing down discovering all the doo-dads 😂👌👌👌 best evening spent. 🎉
Jordan's a valuable employee
Love humour in presentations - Cory is fading away in a good way. Jordan is simply Jordan.
Loved the whole video, specially the ending by Sandy in Cory style :D
As always, information rich short time video…. Very productive.
There's no doubt a lot of history behind Sandy's predisposed attitudes about different manufacturers and for whatever reason Toyota is on Sandy's good side, so his language is flowery but the substance of what he's saying about this car is downright brutal. Everything from the constant comparison to a 6 year old compliance EV that sells for a fraction of the price of this car to the recognition that Toyota leadership is late to the game is pretty scathing. Sandy sums it up in the end by saying they are in a great position to make a lot of improvements, which is to say there's a lot to improve!
Toyota was the first automotive company to really embrace the Lean Design philosophy that is the heart of his business. It allowed them to clobber the global OEMs for 40 years. They also just went under new management after decades under a leader who kept saying EVs are dumb and hybrids are the future. Management that was scared of change and has allowed Toyota products to stagnate and crystallize for 20 years... heck most of the interior they showed off is identical to my 07 Camry. So I think there is some leniance because Sandy knows that Toyota is capable of better and knows that every person involved in the making of this vehicle was working under management who didnt even want to build it to begin with. Sandy also forgives Ford for some decisions because he sees how far Ford has already come. And Sandy is being leniant with Toyota because he sees the same halmarks of stagnation that caused GM and Ford to fall behind in the 80s and 90s to Toyota. I think all of us are hoping the new management at Toyota is watching.
I would also add that a whole heck of alot of people seem to think the point of this channel is to pick on every company that isnt Tesla and just bash every car that comes through, and that is not at all the point. Thier main business is in selling manufacturing advice. Just completely bashing a product isnt how you do that.
I think the BZ refers to too busy design. The exterior is too busy with too many design elements. Pretty busy under the hood too ...
But... But... But... Muh buttons, dials and stalks!!!!
We have 4 Teslas, 1 Corsa-E and tested many other EVs. My wife was shocked by the interieur design around the steering/dashboard and the seats top. She was a seamstress long time ago and said this leather bumps left and right on top of the seats next to the headrest are a mega drama. 😱
I do like Toyotas tendency to overbuild things. Toyotas outlast the majority of other manufacturers.
They built that thing to bounce around the trail with.
I would not be afraid to take that places that you would not dare take a Tesla.
I really considered buying the Solterra until I found out about them embellishing the range.
I would like to see the Subaru version in the Wilderness package with more ground clearance and some tow hooks.
Throw in a max tow package. Cargo rack and hidden front winch and I'm sold.
Subaru has always been great out in the trails and in snow. They are not rock Crawlers but they are great for the mountains and desert.
I live in the Midwest and have owned several Subaru wagons and even the sedan.
I got excited when I heard they and Toyota were teaming up.
They need to have more hp and torque for the AllWheel drive versions.
It would be nice if they could match Teslas tow capacities.
You guys are terrific! Corey, umm, Jordan…. We need to see you more on live!
Great Video as always !!
Glad you enjoyed!
A great content again! Thanks a lot! Greetings from Hungary
Glad you enjoyed it!
Yea Sandy’s back 😊
*Sandy* : "Why are there so many fasteners!"
*Me* : "There aren't *that* many"
...camera zooms out
*Me* : "Oh...never mind."
This is why mechanics think engineers literally hate them...
5:15 Nope. Experienced EV owners put the charging cable, washer fluid, tow hook etc. into the frunk. When you are going on a long business trip or vacation and your TRUNK is full of stuff, the smart guy is VERY happy to have a FRUNK.
The hood is the beauty cover. As it should be.
lol Sandy with the Humphrey Bogart reference.
This must be the typical Toyota engineering that lasts 300,000 miles. There are so many bolts so closely spaced. This is what perfection looks like.
THANK YOU GUYS!! Toyota is on their way out the door
This is basically a ICE Corolla Cross built on the TGNA with the ICE parts stripped and electric powertrain crammed in. Hence the name e-TGNA.
Toyota already announced this platform is not good enough to compete and will be scrapped ASAP. And ASAP for a legacy auto starting from scratch is 2026 at the earliest. Why buy a vehicle on a platform the manufacturer admits isn’t good enough to compete now let alone with vehicles coming out over the next 2-3 years.
They didn't say it would be scrapped. They said they are working on a new one and Lexus will lead the way. But they also said that they will introduce 6 BEVs in Europe by 2026. So, they're getting more out of the e-TNGA before it is replaced by the new platform.
And there are cars , like Polestar's CMA based platform Polestar 2, that are compromised old platform that still deliver a great performing car. The difference is, Polestar puts in a big battery but the car is still not a range leader. Toyota is opposed to big batteries.
They spent decades under management who didnt want to build EVs (and in general was scared of change as witnessed by the fact that this has many of the same interior components as Toyotas from 20 years ago) and just went under new management who does. So things are hopefully going to improve. And while it may not be competitive for the US market, it may be fine for Europe or parts of Asia that have different requirements/expectations.
Also, the F150 Lightning is based on the ICE platform, so it IS possible to build on top of an ICE platform and make a good EV, its just real dang hard and many companies have shown us that in general its a bad idea.
yea I can't wait to see you guys tear it apart
Sandy already taking things apart like a 2 year old, I’m jealous lol
If I remember correctly Sandy has made a comment in the past mentioning 3 important criteria when designing a BEV-
1. Aerodynamics
2. Efficiency
3. Weight
Were some aero-shields removed from the bottom of the car? If not, did I miss any comments referencing airflow and turbulence underneath the car, or am I totally wrong about this consideration?
Thanks again for terrific, interesting and educational content! You deserve all your successes!
Aero shields are always removed before these hoist reviews.
We love you Jordan.....
or Cory or whoever the hell you are!
First lifts the car, I see a lot of bolts: Oooh this is going to be a good video!
They added more bolts so nothing falls off.
Thanks to Sandy and Jordan's first looks at the Toyotas bz4x.
Jordan? Don't you mean Cory? 🤔
I really appreciate ya'll breaking this down! but wow! I've never seen anything so strange in my eyes! though it looks mostly all cosmetic. I know Team Munro will shape
this in2 a vehicle, worthy of my silver dollar's! good luck with it!!
Seems like all those cut lines and sharp corners would increase wind resistance.
Right now, the Bee Zee For Ex is by far the most inefficient EV you can buy.
As an owner of a FWD LE BZ4X, I am glad Sandy wasn’t blown away. Toyota kept it simple and familiar which means better long term reliability. If I wanted something a mechanic would scratch his head at, i would have bought a Hyundai or Kia.
Seeing this review helps as we haven't gotten many in the midwest yet. I would like to point out that Toyota does not typically design vehicles that are "cutting edge" or "new technology" because their main sticking point as a brand is longevity and reliability. So when you see the old low voltage system or traditional underbody you can thank Akio that you won't be stranded because nobody knows how to work on a new proprietary system if a fuse is blown.
This is ridiculous and makes no sense at all.
Jordan talking about SORB …Sandy “What’s this heat exchanger for?” lol
Some engineers is going to have a meeting with the bosses at Toyota and Subaru tomorrow. When Sandy-san gives pointers you should listen.
Some people will have "no weekends" upcoming. 😉
Aluminium cover is like sump protection for ICE vehicles, particularly for the awd off road version . This battery protection may particularly apply to the Subaru which will be used for more off road. 🧐
What a nonsense Leslie, but of course the legacy automaker troll hating Tesla tries to justify Toyotas quite uncompetitive EV.
@@nilsfrederking62 🤡 I have owned two Tesla’s
@@nilsfrederking62 we should build more train than cars, dummy
@@nilsfrederking62 I find that people have a different expectations for EV. They treat it like a phone. Want the fastest charger and biggest battery but has to be thin and slick. The cost of that is repairability and reliability. Tesla has a very poor consumer report grade. Door handles that fail to pop open cost several thousand to repair. Battery replacement that cost 20k. Phantom braking issues. Reliability is the most important factor for people who wants to drive their vehicles 10 plus years and Toyota is trying to make sure that stays true with the bZ4x.
@@teepan2388 Either you are a troll, or you have no clue what you are talking about.
"First kick at the cat" A very Sandy Munro comment. 🤣
Let's see a show of hands/thumbs up:
Who (else) has actually kicked a cat?
I would like to see a comparison with the ID.4, because both are very similar. Both are based on a platform. Both weigh about 2 tons, similar size. Both are built by car manufacturer giants. Similar price and range. First purpose built BEV.
I would really like to see this because Sandy seems very unhappy about the ID.4 and is more gracious about the bz4x, e.g. about not having a frunk. Maybe Sandy opinion about the ID.4 has changed.
Surprising lack of negativity on this video. Their point about this being their bolt makes a lot of sense
"Maybe this is a first kick at the cat" - Sandy Munro 2023
9:25 Sandy looks like Yoda going thru Luke's stuff. He even has a Yoda colored shirt on. 😂
I think toyota has seen the niche for people who want a rugged well built machine "screwed together " and can be mended, minor body damage on a Tesla will mean a complete write off, i suspect they will make it leaner and leaner but start off with the basics right and hone it in
Ye, when I see the Tesla is welded together like that, it makes me cringe. No wonder so many of them are totaled even with small impacts.
the battery looks well protected and generally the car appears build old-school to last and for easy service. I would be confident driving this in the snow and ice. Take a look at the korean kona where the battery will be damaged first time you hit a pile of frozen snow..
I love how you didn’t redo the into. I came for the meat and potatoes and I don’t care if it’s live or candid. This is the best informational channel and by far Munro is the leading tech tear down.
Idk, JerryRigEverything has some good tech tear downs too ;)
5:05) No Frunk? No FRUNKENSTEIN!!!
It really does seem that Toyota engineers where seriously exercising their apathy towards EV platforms when they designed(?) the bz4x.
Hmmm. When are we going to hear from you guys the name of that Company who has combined the inverter with the onboard charger? Its a Cool tech from an Excellent Company!!
Wonder how much added cost to paint the CV axles? Some manufacturers leave them bare metal.
Holy bolts, Batman!
? - I assume there was a skidplate/dust shield at the front end that was removed before the walk through?
General ? - When reviewing the vehicles, could you also speak more to how the design will impact maintenance / repairability? Assume that there are decisions that are great for the initial manufacturing but probably not so great for people owning the vehicle / looking to repair or maintain.
I can tell you that if you have a crash and need to replace that box in the front of the vehicle it’ll cost a shit ton
Sandy is going to have nightmares about those fasteners.
I am surprised you didn't mention the hood line over the headlights. It looks very strange @ 37 sec, @1:07 and other views also. I don't understand what they were trying to do with the flow from the lights to the hood. The black area is tapered and then at the sides, the hood alignment looks very strange. Thank you for the review!!!
Great perspective Cory ummmmm I mean Jordan !
Gotta love sandy always makes me laugh, I also was expecting more from toyota, oh well 🤦🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
lol the lone sound fx cash register opening at end. Editor was chomping at the bit
excellent suv
Iv worked with Toyota products for years and their very constant, everything uv said goes along with what I know, what I’m looking for with Toyota in the future is charging concepts, in other words faster charging, I could care less on ur perspective on how it’s built
Hi Cory!😂😂😂
I'm pretty sure I've heard various presenters blame Cory for "Like & Subscribe" reminders more times than I've heard Cory mention it.
I was more drawn to Jordans eyebrows than the bz whatever it's called. If I showed this video to my wife, she would ask me to find out who does his brows LOL
There's a beer in Australia called 4X (shown as XXXX on the label) All those fasteners should make repairs easier I'd assume?
Ye, but do note that Tesla is an extreme anti repair company. They would rather you buy new instead of repairing small damage.
@@greig9794 that approach seems impractical, one the one hand they w want to save the planet
@@greig9794 that's rather impractical, on the one hand wanting to save the planet with EVs and then unduing it.
@@anthonyxuereb792 Ye, it is a missed opportunity for Tesla. Since they are able to dodge federal requirements (they require ICE car companies to disclose their blueprints and make parts available for many years) and save much more money from it, they do it anyways just like any other greedy companies. All we can hope is the law catch up on this issue and reduce the astronomical repair price that come with Tesla. Ofc Tesla is an EV so they do not need maintenance like ICE, but because of repair price alone, it drives up your insurance significantly. That's why it is a great move when Toyota does that, the repairability alone is going to lower your insurance on top of pricy car loans.
@@greig9794 I must say I didn't know any of this and it lowers a veil over the whole Tesla thing.
It's a good start to Kaizen-ize.
They should've simply made a BEV version of the RAV4.
That about sums up this Vehicle and why it’s not competitive.
@Avery at least a RAV4 conversion wouldn't have wasted all this money for no net gains.
The probably also use a new model name not to hurt a valuable brand name if things go wrong. The did that with the second front wheel drive car the Tercel being renamed to Corolla TE when it was a success (I owned a Tercel 1983)
@@nakfan a RAV 4 EV would do just fine, just as the gas and hybrid versions do now
The paint job is a grasp at trying to be different. Reminds me of patchwork jeans, or a second hand fender waiting to be painted.
I like Jordan👍
Fusebox, Sandy is great... They had to keep the fuse and relay box as they just started designing the 48V relays... Getting rid of the fuse box would make that work wasteful...
How would this compare, in a hoist review, to the sister vehicle from Subaru? Would they both be the same underneath? Or would there be significant differences down there?
The same. The car was co-developed with Subaru. But it is built on a Toyota platform.
@@benjaminsmith2287 True - it's simply a Toyota.
I have had a model Y for 9 months and can honestly say I almost never use the frunk. I just don't think about it.
It's useful on road trips.
@@MsAjax409 and how many people do road trip every week? lol
@@greig9794 Very few, but that's not the point. When I take road trips at least four times a year, having more cargo space is very welcome. If an EV doesn't have a frunk, it's a negative, and it tells me that the car was not well-engineered.
looks good for servicing cf. to tesla etc.
Could the big plate at the bottom be an sacrificial armor plate for scared customers who believe a small impact will write off the battery pack in one go?
Best use of the Frunk: When a member of your dinner party wants to take home the poorly packaged left overs of their dinner!
The potential problems in lower temperature do indeed appear to have materialized, it's apparently bad at low temperaure fast charging.
It really looks like a port on an existing platform and not something integrated, it looks too "ICE" all over the place. and for the platform itself, from what I saw, they are all conceptually similar in the idea that the variation is from the firewall to the rear wheel arch, therefore, by sharing with the combustion models, there cannot be much difference. I look forward to the disassembly of the battery and the attention to detail of the galvanic corrosion.
I hope they can make a more cost-efficient and innovative changes next year.
Light a candle each day and pray for Toyota. They need it.
Any chance you are talking about Exro Technologies at the 6:00 mark? Would love to hear your thoughts on their tech!
Sandy was being nice to Toyotasan, he is looking forward to work with them.💵 😂