I dislocated my right shoulder around two years ago, as well. I hope yours is doing better. Mine still gives me some trouble but I’m fully back to my old life now. Life is indeed more challenging with one arm, but hopefully you found a great pedal setup Eric, and you’re blasting your enemies out of the skies
Sounds like multifunction foot pedals would help a lot. The town i grew up in had a guy with a van setup to drive entirely via foot controls. I'm not sure how he had it setup, but i always thought it was cool that he found a way to be able to drive.
Its old but X4 has manual aim.... the auto target system is an combat extension and usually it lacks precision and X2-3 had manual aim too and you can even controll the turrents...
Great video. Though the thing I found with the dual setup is, that even if there are a lot of buttons on the stick, I find I can't afford to take my hands of the controls when operating my ship. So buttons directly on the stick and not on the base are fine. I will rarely be using the buttons on the base and will be offloading most things to voiceattack.
@@BuzZzKiller with VA though you have to remember that if you use VoIP you need a push to mute button for your VoIP and bind it to the same as your push to activate for VA so you don't get accidental activation
Here learning to use my old t16000M in Star Citizen using keyboard on my left hand. I use WASD keys to strafe as usual, control and spacebar to strafe up and down, and the pitch, yaw and roll with the joystick in my right hand, alongside weapons management and speed limiter on the throttle axis. It's not easy to aim, but i think i can get better on it if i tweak the sensibility and practise. I find this way the best way to play Star Citizen if you have a simple joystick in your home.
I use a PS4 controller for Elite Dangerous, and have mapped all the buttons i personally use. Yes, i have to use a lot of shift-buttons, but i think it is suprisingly logical and easy to remember. I use this instead of keyboard + mouse mostly because i think it is more comfortable to use (but im gonna order a hotas setup today. I think its gonna be easier for me than a dual joystick). Heres how i have mapped my PS4 controller in a way that i personally find to be both efficient and intuitive to use, and relatively easy to remember..: (X is the main modifier/shift button, square is secondary shift button,, and triangle are additional modifier/shift button. They do not have any functions if pressed on their own. Circle is for targetting AND a modifier button) Right stick for roll and vertical thrusters (which i mostly use for combat), and left stick for pitch and yaw. Left+right stick press is FA on/off. R1 and L1 are fire buttons. X+ L1 or R1 selects fire-group, and square + R1 selects cocpit mode. I use R2 and L2 for thrusters (accelerate and break/reverse), and have set X+R2 to 75% thrust (to not overshoot the target), X+L2 is 50% speed (great for battle) X+Square+R2 is 100% thrust, and X+Square +L2 is 0% thrust. Square + R2/L2 is incremental increase/decrease in speed, and pressing the triangle button while i accellerate (R2) activates the boost... Arrow buttons are used for additional thrusters (vertical and horizontal, which i use mostly for landing, and not during combat). X+ "Left Stick Press" is to go into supercruice, and square + "left stick press" is that "FSD jump" to other systems (i forget what its called). If i have deselected my jump route (maybe to go to a station or whatever), i press circle (my targetting button) + "left stick press" (which is associated with the FSD) to reselect the last jump route... Circle is for targeting, and i hold circle and use it as a shift/modifier button together with the arrow buttons for selecting targets. X + arrows are for pips Square + arrows are for the right/left/top/bottom screens Triangle + arrows gave orders for the fighter, but that fighter would always start shooting the wrong ships, and make me wanted, so i ditched the fighter bay and im thinking of using the triangle + arrows for wing commands instead... I use the left and right pad press (like PRESS - not "touch") for landing gear and cargo scoop. X+ left and right pad opens galaxy map and system map Square + L/R pad is nightvision and ship lights. Im not using chaff or heatsinks, but if i did, i would map it to triangle and the right and left pad press... I think thats all, but my "good for nothing" ex pothead brain probably forgot something, lol...
I perfer pedals instead of a 3rd axis on the right sticks, feels more natural to me But two sticks made SC so much more enjoyable! I would recomment to mount them on a table or chair mount :)
I use pedals for roll. It's really the least necessary of the axis (aiming is mostly pitch and yaw when exo and in atmo dogfights are exceedingly rare)
been using a gamepad until i get some kind of joystick setup, remapping the flight controls on the thumbsticks was an enormous help. I made it so that the joysticks handle somewhat like a dual stick, with the left shoulder button changing my right sticks normal L/R roll into strafes for precision landing. Doing that, the only thing i've needed my keyboard for is landing gear and system power.
Unless you're a pure combat player you'd want a throttle to go with dual stick. So perhaps for most people the best option is to buy a hotas, then when they're feeling like the to need that extra control get a left handed stick to complete the setup. Though personally I'm feel a hotas in a just fine in elite because vertical and lateral thrusters don't benefit that much from analogue input, apart from getting off very smooth landings.
I recommend after getting HOSAS to upgrade to HOSAS + pedals. After using both extensively I think the pedals are a great addition. You have two options with them. Either use them for yaw, or use them for thrust. I think thrust is the best method, almost like a car.
love your guides and have used them from the start. Hurry up and role out your mapping diagram for Dual t-16000m. Its killing me waiting for it :) Keep up the great work Buzz
Great Video Again, im pending between hotas and Dual Joysticks, because i just would like to use a throttle because i think the feeling is way more satisfiying. Hmmm....
a point for the controllers, using Steams built in controller tool is incredibly powerful, i can play most of ED (from what i know of) using my steam controller
I have a Hotas but in most cases I prefer my rc transmitter (tx16s) which has huge full range high resolution gimbles which you can pinch hold. This makes it have incredible precision both in flight and weapons
when i have time to play for over an hour or so i'll set up my dual sticks. other wise mouse and keyboard. and i like my scuf gamepad for fps. i don't do competitive stuff so i haven't seen much drop off in the aim. i'd use the gamepad all the time (when i'm not using sticks) but there is a bug right now switching to flight where it doesn't like my bindings/modifiers.
I noticed the gamepad modifiers got messed up a couple patches ago. With the limited buttons, it makes them really hard to fly with. For FPS, if I'm not in a fight, I use the thumbsticks on my Virpil Deltas to move around like a gamepad.
I've tried pretty much every combination you discussed and prefer the dual stick setup. The main issue I have with dual sticks is in FPS. When I am not in my ship I prefer mouse and keyboard for obvious reasons. The issue is comfortable access to the keyboard and mouse. I have Monstertech desk mounts and chair mounts, but both present the same issue of increased distance to the keyboard and mouse.
Yeah I’m the same way. With the T-16’s I just put the sticks in the desk and the mouse to the right. But the Deltas on their mounts get in the way all the time. I have the thumb sticks bound for FPS movement so only have to switch to the mouse and keyboard for FPS combat. I’m looking into some kind of mount to place my mouse on next to the joystick for easy access. That way I can use the left thumbstick to move around and aim with the mouse.
@@BuzZzKiller They have a side mounted mouse platform for the mounts I have. I've thought about getting them and maybe adding something like an Orbweaver for the FPS keyboard on the left. That's about the best I think I can come up with short of a SIM Pit. I have the dual T16000's on the mounts, so their base does complicate things when mounted to the desk or chair. Anyways, glad to see you back making vids and I greatly appreciate your continued support of the dual T16's setup. Those Virpil's look amazing by the way.
My setup of choice is HOSAS + pedals - I have the right stick bound to pitch (forward/back), roll (twist stick) and yaw (left/right), left stick bound to strafe forward and back (forward/back) and strafe left and right (left/right) and then the rudder pedal main axis bound to strafe up/down. The rudder pedals I use (Thrustmaster TPR, aka the best ones you can get) are highly precise, stable and comfortable and are more precise than twist stick (by a lot) so they make for great strafe up/down controls where you need higher precision than the other strafe directions to make for soft and precise landings. My left stick is my old saitek x52 (which I've had 20 years and always loved, played through the X games with it) and my right stick is a Logitech/saitek x52 pro which is a nice step up but essentially the same stick. I love these sticks for their precision, versatility and comfort but others may prefer more metal or "realistic" sticks (although many of those lack twist axes). This combined setup makes for very precise controls and flight precision, and is fantastic to play with. HOWEVER! I do wish that a flight stick was available which replaced the right stick's main hat switch (which sits where your thumb typically rests) with a mini trackpad or even trackball - I feel this would add truly the best of both worlds, with joysticks controlling the broader movements and the trackpad/trackball additionally controlling gimbal weapon aim. Alas, HOSAS + Pedals is the best I'm able to get so far
on the topic of precision with joystick, if you get a really nice pair joysticks like Virpil Alpha's, you can get all of the aiming precision in the world on top of all of the flight precision in the world you want, it just takes allot practice to get to the level that you have on mouse.
Sorry for the delay, I’m moving house and currently on the road. See my latest videos to get an idea what I’m doing. You can also download my binding charts from my Dropbox to see exactly how I have the T-16’s and Virpils setup.
Hey, I’d love you to cover dual stick and throttle, my absolute ideal setup. I have two Virpil constellations with extensions and the Mongoos T-50CM. It’s very cool, but there are also pros and cons.
The only throttle I have is a Warthog, and it's been collecting dust in the closet for over a year. I just don't have the desk real estate to add it in. When I eventually update the video, I have a few other input types I can add and this is one of them.
I'm considering doing a HOTASS. Dual sticks with a throttle. For normal flight use stick and throttle but for more flight precision switch to dual stick.
@@BuzZzKiller I actually have it set up this way now. I use the throttle for constant speed travel between destinations. If I get interdicted I throttle to 0 and go dual stick.
i know this is old, but i found 2 boxes of dual tm1600s for me and my friend at microcenter. $138, which right now, is a dang good price. They have been price gouging since microsoft flight simulator 2020
I'm a madman who overloads all the buttons on my gamepad. I use the abxy buttons as modifiers for all of the other buttons in addition to default behaviors. My stick arrangement is odd too; pitch and yaw on left, roll and vertical thrust on right. I use that stick setup minus the thrusters in Kerbal, so I am used to it. In Kerbal it is nice to have pitch and yaw separate from roll and it makes navball based navigation intuitive.
You may be interested in the setup I use for SC, which is an Xbox Elite controller (the paddles add so much functionality). I use ReWASD software to add crazy functionality and I also have the chatpad attachment although I rarely use it, but with it I can absolutely replace M+KB for SC and my desktop. I use one config for everything in SC (something dual stick users don't do...its great for flying but not much else). You can check out my channel to see it in action.
I love your video's. I just switched to dual T16000m's and use you profile in SC and a different profile for ED. Your profile has helped me get started quickly.
Really? I have the X52 and actually find it quite enjoyable with the d-pad on the front of the throttle picking up the other two axis I find I still have the full range of movement and can easily keep up with my friends who have more advanced set ups, plus I do a lot of space trucking and mining so it's nice to not have to hold my throttle the entire time when taking long journeys. But that's on elite dangerous so I'm sure it's probably way different on star citizen.
Honestly, as long as you have a throttle quadrant with a proper slew sensor (like with Thrustmaster's T.16000M FCS HOTAS), you have analog controls for all six axes.
currently in between dual joystick and a full flight pack (joy, throttle and rudder). price difference is exactly double. Both full Thrustmaster combos. ..which one to get?
I recently started playing with dual sticks and it feels fantastic! For anyone one budget you can buy 2 x t16000 sticks for about $80. Add game glass and your experience will change dramatically
Hey Buzz, you really should try out the Thrustmaster FCS throttle. I was dual stick since early days but this made me switch. Lots of analog plus normal throttle. It is a gamechanger. Don't want you to be ignorant of the best modern throttle for space. ;)
Something you missed is that many HOTAS setups have analogue sticks too, like controller thumbsticks. Which gives you all 6 degrees of freedom with analogue and some of them have several more analogue axis.
This is true. I don't consider the dials as useful analog axes (though they can be used for things like thrust limiting), but the thumb sticks and paddles on the Thrustmaster FCS throttle can be quite useful.
@@BuzZzKiller So far so good. I bought primarily for Star Wars Squadrons, but then got my butt down to properly playing Elite (using a gamepad felt game-y and not like playing a sim). I've put a lot of hours down in it and completely neglected Squadrons. Elite has forward and reverse thrust so the notch that centers it is useful to lock it to zero. Just wished there was a bit more resistance when its off center. But otherwise it's pretty smooth and like you mentioned in your video, with Elite approach throttle is essential. Especially if you want to manually supercruise. I'm trying to find out if it is possible to use the t.flight and t16000m together. I'm sure it must be possible as using 2 sticks, the PC still sees them as 2 devices. The T-flight is connected via only one USB thus, it's considered a single device.
...Or use a SpaceNavigator. 6DOF in one hand, meaning full movement, and you can still use a mouse or another joystick. It's a mega high learning curve, unless you have CAD design as a background.
Been wondering about getting a setup like that for playing Elite, since an Xinput gamepad (even with modifiers) just doesn't cut it. The problem is, due to the virus of unknown origin and, most likely, the launch of SW Squadrons and MS Flight Sim, joystick prices have gone orbital. Not that the ones I wanted were cheap to begin with, but this is getting ridiculous. Also, can a setup like that work with older stuff, like Freespace 1 and 2?
Old but not that old. Coming from Elite. There are manual aimed weapons. Fixed weapons. in which you need to place your ship in a certain way or hit the target directly lead shots and such. Depending on weapon type. However if you mean with manual weapons that you target and follow your mouse or it is aimed in some other way instead of positioning your ship. Then I think your definition is right in this.
The Thrustmaster has the same problem as my old MS Sidewinder... all the buttons are on the base. If you're in the middle of a fight or some tight maneuver and can't take your hand off the stick those buttons are useless. Even when you can safely take your hand off the stick, some of the buttons are awkward to reach because you have to lift your hand over the stick or pull it back around the stick to get to the other side. The buttons on the "outboard" side are fine, your hand just drops down to them. The layout seems more designed for a single stick sitting on the center of a desk with buttons available for both hands. I'm going to spend twice as much, but the VKB Gladiator NXT stick has tons of buttons on the actual stick (24, IIRC) and is available in a left-hand version. Even one of them will handle most of what I need for E:D. When I get the second one I'll only have to touch the keyboard to actually type something into a text box.
How does a duel-stick set up work in non-space flight sim games, like Ace Combat and Project Wingman? I love the idea of duel-sticks, but it needs to also work with throttle-based flight sims.
Then my guides are not for you. My primary focus is Star Citizen. If you’re the same person leaving all the entertaining comments on my Dropbox files, thanks for the laugh.
for me the game I'm going with is Star wars Squadrons but on PS4 hence why I'm going with the Dual Joystick setup. plenty of buttons,dual throttle,double the axis,and lastly it's on the couch instead of in a chair. and when I"m a ship (imperial or rebel) I go to mouse and keyboard.
so....with so fiddling can homas work with space engineers?...i suck with keyboard controls due to poor motor control and if it can advice would be much appreciated
Also there is GAMEPAD + Joystick (16000) i am using. When i go down to planet on foot i use GAMEPAD + MOUSE. I am using in left hand PS4 dual shock with left stick working as strafe up/down/left/right. L2 as throttle from 0 to max speed. When i am not in combat i use slider on right to adjust speed limiter and set ship in cruise mode. While in combat i use L2 with speed limiter for safe speed or switching it off for chase/rapid closing. L1 works as modifier so with this for example L1+L3 is break instead of L3 afterburner. If i want to go back i use L1 and L2 which reverses L2 throttle direction. That modifier also means dpad has twice buttons, select is also twice and ps4 has touchpad with 3 buttons and 4 slides working as button in DS4windows software. IT is kind of nice, less immersive that dual joystick but still kind of dual joystick just with smaller stick on left side.
BuzZzKiller i meant war thunder. I’ve been told a duel sticks wouldnt work to well for plane and jet sims but i figured it would essentially be the same if you only use one as a thruster
@@angelarroyo6001 I've actually tried it on War Thunder. It's not ideal. For a plane you usually want to use a standard throttle because it doesn't return to center.
normal people: use pedals for strafe axis or yaw. me: THROTTLE and the rocking functions are for landing gear and cargo hatch! (edit: if I use the pedals for throttle in the dual stick setup, I can more comfortably fly without tiring my arms, considering throttle adjustments are a majority of your action in the game.)
Interesting. I just can't stand pedals. Maybe if I had a sim pit where they were hard mounted and didn't slide all over the place I would use them. But with Dual sticks I haven't felt the need. I use the cruise control function and decoupled a lot during travel so my arms never get tired.
I use a dual stick setup. I use 2x T16000m but I also have a Logitech Driving Force GT (DFGT) Wheel in the mix as well. My main game is Elite Dangerous and this setup work amazingly well. The basic (flight) axis setup Left Stick: Strafe Left/Right (lateral thrust), Strafe Up/Down (vertical thrust). The twist toggles FA On/Off. Right Stick: Pitch, Yaw and Roll. DFGT: The pedals control forward and reverse thrust. I do have face buttons mapped to 75% thrust (Trust the Blue). I call this HOSFOP (Hands On Sticks Feet On Pedals). I have never got Star Citizen to run well enough to try flight (is FPS really tied to connection?), so I have no idea how well this works with it. I just bought X4 today, so will find out if that is a possible setup with it and how good it works.
For flight I also have the face buttons on the wheel mapped to handy controls (75% thrust button, target wingmen and their targets, cargo hatch). Like wise with the T16000m's. They also have most used controls mapped to the head buttons, lesser used but still handy bindings are on the base buttons. The wheel also make driving the SRV better (IMHO). But breaks immersion a bit when it comes to playing in VR (something I rarely do these days). With Odyssey (although I am not currently playing it, gonna give it time to be fixed), good old KB/M for the FPS side of things. Oh and I have incorporated a 15 key Stream Deck for quick access to maps, speed set keys etc.
Glad to help. I'm not sure what the flight model in Squadrons will be like. But if it's like the old Xwing and Tie Fighter games it will be less Newtonian physics and more "Planes in Space". Nothing against that, as it ties in with the source material, but it may make a having a throttle the better choice for that game.
@@BuzZzKiller hmm, that's a fair point! Didnt think about it like that. However I have seen some people who were given early access to play game using a dual stick setup. But, we'll see. I dont pre-order games anyway so I have time to decide.
@@Nick_Whiskey I played it, dual sticks are actually very effective. When you let go of the throttle stick and let it go to center it's set to the most maneuverable speed.
you missed out eye-tracking tobii 4c is the best example, because it can also mimic the mouse and accuracy because of the eye retina the immersion is on the real, because of information is your eyes input, and because of this your output peripherals automatically act on impulse without thinking, the best example I can give is driving over your car, and VR does not have the proper capabilities yet, and that is because you have to wear it over your eyes and you cannot see other things you need to torch I hope this helps in your next video which I know you will seriously consider
I've been curious about how that would work in SC. But the hardware is pretty expensive just to experiment with. I'd love to see a video of it in action.
Unless you have a ''Multi-role'' simulator like I do :) I'm using a Logitech X56 (Throttle and Stick) mounted on each sides of my seat. I'm also using a Logitech G29 wheel with pedals as for when I drive vehicles. To move around in Star Citizen, I'm using a Rii keyboard with a track pad which is more accurate than you think. This wireless keyboard is quite small and does fit into the cockpit. All of my wired controlers are going thru an Amazon 10 USB 2.0 hub, which is also quite cheap. I will soon add an Oculus Rift S to my gear. Maybe I'll post a video of it someday but when I get the time to make the video. As for my opinion, I prefer the Hotas option since it fits more than space games. I also play Flight sims so with the dual stick it just doesn't work for me but like you said, for space game that rocks !! Cheers
I have a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and I even did some bindings for it as a special request from a friend. But it's not a stick made for space sims since it doesn't even have a twist axis. Pedals are more trouble than they are worth IMO unless you have something to hard mount them to. I don't so they slip and slide everywhere and are generally uncomfortable. Once I finish my house move, I may end up getting an FCS Hotas and start doing bindings for that. They seem pretty popular right now.
Hey Buzzkiller, van you make a vid for a dummy like me how to make target installed, work with sc,... and of course the best setup for my dual thrustmaster sticks pls?
I used to have a full racing sim plus a joystick, sold it all a few months ago but I want to play something with better immersion, was looking for Hotas joystick, at the end I decided to buy 2 Logitech 3D Pros, it is very cheap now, I played Elite dangerous for almost 100 hours and I always felt another joystick for the other axis would be the best, I'm imagining now how to control the throttle using two joysticks now... add a pedal for forwards thrust/reverse would be perfection, I used to use my racing pedals as that.
I've got Joystick and trackball: HOTBAS. Saddly, some joystick controls axis cannot be binded on a mouse, like throttle axis. I am still missing to 6th axis. And the new 3.8 hover mode is so bad...
Weapon precision is as needed as flight precision for fights, leave such problem just to equip gimballed weapon isn't really a solution because you lower the firepower compared to fixed. I hope CIG will find a way to make joystick as precise as mouse
Very late but after the flight changes from 3.10 making fixed weapons so strong I think it's time for a couple sticks. The name I see time and time again is the T16000m, so I think I'll be grabbing two of those.
They're a good choice for entry level sticks and the quality of the sensors is very good. The only downside is people seem to have a lot of problems breaking the twist axis on the newer ones.
My joysticks have doubled since we last met, Count. Good. Twice the buttons, double the cost. Just gotta figure out which ones are compatible with linux.
If you have everything on the desk, I typically put the keyboard in the middle with the two joysticks (or joystick and throttle) on either side. The mouse is either to the right of the joystick or in front of the keyboard. Optionally you can look into ways to mount the keyboard & mouse under the desk on a slider. (Search Amazon for Keyboard & mouse mounts). Or get some desk mounts for your controllers. MonsterTech makes some, but they are pretty expensive.
@@BuzZzKiller I have old but fully working saitek x52. I arranged my mouse and keyboard as you wrote but mouse became too far away on the right. Now I'm thinking to buy a cheap TKL keyboard which I'll use only with HOTAS. I chose this arrangement because I don't want HOTAS in between my hands and keyboard&mouse for ergonomics. IMO base of stick and throttle could've been much smaller but saitek keeps making same big bases.
HI Buzz, video well done.. I have request for you if possible, can you make a video how you set up the duo sticks with star citizen? I just got a duo set from VKB but I’m having a little bit of confusion setting then up and keybinding then too. Thank you in advance
If you’re using the NXT’s I have a set of bindings you can use in the Dropbox. There is a readme file in there with some basic setup and troubleshooting steps. I also have some videos on how to import my bindings.
@@BuzZzKiller yes! awesome!! I do have the NXT.. thank you so much.. I'm looking forward to check it out today ones I get home from work. thank you again.. 😊
Wow mouse stick and pedal sounds amazing. Is there a way to set up profiles to easily go from that set up to duel stick and back to mouse and keyboard?
A have a g502 wireless, dual thrustmaster sticks and I am now looking for peddles. I am so stoked to learn how to set it all up. Thanks for doing these vids man.
If you're looking for the bare minimum it will do. It doesn't have many buttons though, and only 4 Axes. I'd suggest getting the T-16000M. If you can only afford one for now, you can always buy a second one later.
Keyboard doesn't have over 100 keys. Even accounting for the 10key, the number keys along the top, the Function Keys, and the modifier keys like Ctrl and Alt, you have maybe 50-70 keys tops.
A "Standard Full Size Keyboard" with a numpad and Arrow Keys typically has around 104 keys. Get a gaming keyboard and that number can increase significantly.
Am I a weirdo if i'm using gamepad + keyboard for extra buttons + mouse for aiming? :D Its pretty easy to set up your main ship controls on gamepad, use keyboard as a switch panel for miscellaneous controls and mouse for tasks that specifically need aiming. It does require you to get used to alwas hold gamepad with other hand when you use keyboard or mouse though. Also, it should be noted that some devices in Elite almost "built for mouse", like FSS scanner. Since it has nothing to do with your ship's maneuverability and rotates pretty much instantly (no inertia), mouse becomes vastly superior to anything else for that specific mode.
It's not wierd. Whatever works best for your gameplay style and budget is what you should go with. I've used a gamepad in a pinch, but personally it just isn't fun or immersive enough.
Make sure to check the readme files. There should be one general readme and one specific for each type of joystick. If you are still having problems let me know and I can try to help.
Hey buzzz, were those the long extensions or the short extensions from virpil? Do you like them and which one do you prefer. I am going dual stick set up and I dont think I need the long desk extensions but I dont want to undershoot either..
In-game bindings are changed in-game. JoyToKey bindings only change what keyboard buttons are bound the the joystick. The only JoyToKey binding for the T-16's is the left trigger.
While i have basic locomotion/interaction useable on dual deltas I'm eagerly awaiting the mouse pad for the virpil deskmounts at which point i will use hosasam switching to mouse for FPS combat. Right now im using axis to button to handle lean, crouch, and jump on the left stick as well as the thumbstick for movement. Would be sweet if CIG would create an analog axis for lean and crouch. At any rate glad to see youre posting again. Does that mean you're stateside?
Amore appropriate question would be, Why play an unfinished game? I personally rather save the experience for when the game is fully completed in 5 or so years from now. What's the point in playing a game where your progress gets wiped and ships cost hundreds of dollars? Hopefully by the time the game is done you all still enjoy the game and are not bored of it.
Its crowd funded, so If no one was playing it, it would never get made in the first place. Look, I get it. I've been disappointed and frustrated at times at the apparent lack of progress too. And CIG's funding model seems to get more and more predatory. But then I remind myself that I backed this game for the experience of watching it be developed. And to eventually play another epic Chris Roberts masterpiece like Wing Commander or Freelancer. Its not for everyone. Especially in this "I want it now!" generation. But I'm confident the game will be finished and it will be enjoyed for years to come.
@@BuzZzKiller I backed it, that is not the point, i own a starter pack but played maybe 1h 3 years ago. i'd rather save the experience for when it is completed. i never said no one should support it. IDK i have a hard time expressing how i feel on the subject. i just wonder why people would play an unfinished game and spoil the experience for later.
Did you watch the video? I covered that. Though things have changed a lot since this vid was made, and right now Auto-gimbals are king in SC. So the advantage has gone back to sticks.
I'm a HOSAS user myself but the mouse is at the ready in case a dogfight becomes "challenging" :)
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Same applies if you are using fixed?
I'd highly recommend looking into Voice Attack. Even the demo will give you 20x voice commands. Easy to setup and totally changed my playstyle in SC.
This comparison really shows it all, hope you will continue to make great videos in the future.
I really appreciate your videos, miss your Star Citizen ones. Unfortunately, having only one full arm, dual joysticks are not a possibility for me.
Sorry to hear that. I can somewhat feel your pain. Right now I have a separated shoulder and I have very limited use of my left arm.
Yo there'd a new joystick with 6 DOF,you should check it out
Suggested price is $400, so not sure if its in your budget
I dislocated my right shoulder around two years ago, as well. I hope yours is doing better. Mine still gives me some trouble but I’m fully back to my old life now. Life is indeed more challenging with one arm, but hopefully you found a great pedal setup Eric, and you’re blasting your enemies out of the skies
Sounds like multifunction foot pedals would help a lot.
The town i grew up in had a guy with a van setup to drive entirely via foot controls. I'm not sure how he had it setup, but i always thought it was cool that he found a way to be able to drive.
i use left stick and mouse, which is the razer and stick shown here, my advise is buy within your budget and what feels fun for you.
Its old but X4 has manual aim.... the auto target system is an combat extension and usually it lacks precision and X2-3 had manual aim too and you can even controll the turrents...
Great video. Though the thing I found with the dual setup is, that even if there are a lot of buttons on the stick, I find I can't afford to take my hands of the controls when operating my ship. So buttons directly on the stick and not on the base are fine. I will rarely be using the buttons on the base and will be offloading most things to voiceattack.
I should have mentioned voice attack... missed opportunity.
@@BuzZzKiller with VA though you have to remember that if you use VoIP you need a push to mute button for your VoIP and bind it to the same as your push to activate for VA so you don't get accidental activation
Yeah, Voice attack fills the gap of not enough buttons nicely. Verbal shortcuts ftw!
@@sybilreichlan6117 But for VA you must think in Russian -> Firefox (1982)
I'm super excited that you are doing this series. Can't wait for the next bus.
Here learning to use my old t16000M in Star Citizen using keyboard on my left hand. I use WASD keys to strafe as usual, control and spacebar to strafe up and down, and the pitch, yaw and roll with the joystick in my right hand, alongside weapons management and speed limiter on the throttle axis.
It's not easy to aim, but i think i can get better on it if i tweak the sensibility and practise. I find this way the best way to play Star Citizen if you have a simple joystick in your home.
I use a PS4 controller for Elite Dangerous, and have mapped all the buttons i personally use. Yes, i have to use a lot of shift-buttons, but i think it is suprisingly logical and easy to remember. I use this instead of keyboard + mouse mostly because i think it is more comfortable to use (but im gonna order a hotas setup today. I think its gonna be easier for me than a dual joystick).
Heres how i have mapped my PS4 controller in a way that i personally find to be both efficient and intuitive to use, and relatively easy to remember..:
(X is the main modifier/shift button, square is secondary shift button,, and triangle are additional modifier/shift button. They do not have any functions if pressed on their own. Circle is for targetting AND a modifier button)
Right stick for roll and vertical thrusters (which i mostly use for combat), and left stick for pitch and yaw.
Left+right stick press is FA on/off.
R1 and L1 are fire buttons. X+ L1 or R1 selects fire-group, and square + R1 selects cocpit mode.
I use R2 and L2 for thrusters (accelerate and break/reverse), and have set X+R2 to 75% thrust (to not overshoot the target), X+L2 is 50% speed (great for battle) X+Square+R2 is 100% thrust, and X+Square +L2 is 0% thrust. Square + R2/L2 is incremental increase/decrease in speed, and pressing the triangle button while i accellerate (R2) activates the boost...
Arrow buttons are used for additional thrusters (vertical and horizontal, which i use mostly for landing, and not during combat).
X+ "Left Stick Press" is to go into supercruice, and square + "left stick press" is that "FSD jump" to other systems (i forget what its called). If i have deselected my jump route (maybe to go to a station or whatever), i press circle (my targetting button) + "left stick press" (which is associated with the FSD) to reselect the last jump route...
Circle is for targeting, and i hold circle and use it as a shift/modifier button together with the arrow buttons for selecting targets.
X + arrows are for pips
Square + arrows are for the right/left/top/bottom screens
Triangle + arrows gave orders for the fighter, but that fighter would always start shooting the wrong ships, and make me wanted, so i ditched the fighter bay and im thinking of using the triangle + arrows for wing commands instead...
I use the left and right pad press (like PRESS - not "touch") for landing gear and cargo scoop.
X+ left and right pad opens galaxy map and system map
Square + L/R pad is nightvision and ship lights.
Im not using chaff or heatsinks, but if i did, i would map it to triangle and the right and left pad press...
I think thats all, but my "good for nothing" ex pothead brain probably forgot something, lol...
I perfer pedals instead of a 3rd axis on the right sticks, feels more natural to me
But two sticks made SC so much more enjoyable! I would recomment to mount them on a table or chair mount :)
I use pedals for roll. It's really the least necessary of the axis (aiming is mostly pitch and yaw when exo and in atmo dogfights are exceedingly rare)
I prefer the 3rd axis on the stick, it's much faster to maneuver than using your legs.
how do you mount them?
been using a gamepad until i get some kind of joystick setup, remapping the flight controls on the thumbsticks was an enormous help. I made it so that the joysticks handle somewhat like a dual stick, with the left shoulder button changing my right sticks normal L/R roll into strafes for precision landing. Doing that, the only thing i've needed my keyboard for is landing gear and system power.
Unless you're a pure combat player you'd want a throttle to go with dual stick. So perhaps for most people the best option is to buy a hotas, then when they're feeling like the to need that extra control get a left handed stick to complete the setup.
Though personally I'm feel a hotas in a just fine in elite because vertical and lateral thrusters don't benefit that much from analogue input, apart from getting off very smooth landings.
I recommend after getting HOSAS to upgrade to HOSAS + pedals. After using both extensively I think the pedals are a great addition. You have two options with them. Either use them for yaw, or use them for thrust. I think thrust is the best method, almost like a car.
love your guides and have used them from the start. Hurry up and role out your mapping diagram for Dual t-16000m. Its killing me waiting for it :) Keep up the great work Buzz
The 3.7 Bindings will be available soon after it goes to public PTU. The 3.6 bindings have been available for a while now.
Great Video Again, im pending between hotas and Dual Joysticks, because i just would like to use a throttle because i think the feeling is way more satisfiying. Hmmm....
a point for the controllers, using Steams built in controller tool is incredibly powerful, i can play most of ED (from what i know of) using my steam controller
I have a Hotas but in most cases I prefer my rc transmitter (tx16s) which has huge full range high resolution gimbles which you can pinch hold. This makes it have incredible precision both in flight and weapons
when i have time to play for over an hour or so i'll set up my dual sticks. other wise mouse and keyboard. and i like my scuf gamepad for fps. i don't do competitive stuff so i haven't seen much drop off in the aim. i'd use the gamepad all the time (when i'm not using sticks) but there is a bug right now switching to flight where it doesn't like my bindings/modifiers.
I noticed the gamepad modifiers got messed up a couple patches ago. With the limited buttons, it makes them really hard to fly with. For FPS, if I'm not in a fight, I use the thumbsticks on my Virpil Deltas to move around like a gamepad.
I've tried pretty much every combination you discussed and prefer the dual stick setup. The main issue I have with dual sticks is in FPS. When I am not in my ship I prefer mouse and keyboard for obvious reasons. The issue is comfortable access to the keyboard and mouse. I have Monstertech desk mounts and chair mounts, but both present the same issue of increased distance to the keyboard and mouse.
Yeah I’m the same way. With the T-16’s I just put the sticks in the desk and the mouse to the right. But the Deltas on their mounts get in the way all the time. I have the thumb sticks bound for FPS movement so only have to switch to the mouse and keyboard for FPS combat. I’m looking into some kind of mount to place my mouse on next to the joystick for easy access. That way I can use the left thumbstick to move around and aim with the mouse.
@@BuzZzKiller They have a side mounted mouse platform for the mounts I have. I've thought about getting them and maybe adding something like an Orbweaver for the FPS keyboard on the left. That's about the best I think I can come up with short of a SIM Pit. I have the dual T16000's on the mounts, so their base does complicate things when mounted to the desk or chair. Anyways, glad to see you back making vids and I greatly appreciate your continued support of the dual T16's setup. Those Virpil's look amazing by the way.
My setup of choice is HOSAS + pedals - I have the right stick bound to pitch (forward/back), roll (twist stick) and yaw (left/right), left stick bound to strafe forward and back (forward/back) and strafe left and right (left/right) and then the rudder pedal main axis bound to strafe up/down. The rudder pedals I use (Thrustmaster TPR, aka the best ones you can get) are highly precise, stable and comfortable and are more precise than twist stick (by a lot) so they make for great strafe up/down controls where you need higher precision than the other strafe directions to make for soft and precise landings.
My left stick is my old saitek x52 (which I've had 20 years and always loved, played through the X games with it) and my right stick is a Logitech/saitek x52 pro which is a nice step up but essentially the same stick. I love these sticks for their precision, versatility and comfort but others may prefer more metal or "realistic" sticks (although many of those lack twist axes).
This combined setup makes for very precise controls and flight precision, and is fantastic to play with.
HOWEVER! I do wish that a flight stick was available which replaced the right stick's main hat switch (which sits where your thumb typically rests) with a mini trackpad or even trackball - I feel this would add truly the best of both worlds, with joysticks controlling the broader movements and the trackpad/trackball additionally controlling gimbal weapon aim.
Alas, HOSAS + Pedals is the best I'm able to get so far
Thank you for the video!!! This came at the perfect time!
on the topic of precision with joystick, if you get a really nice pair joysticks like Virpil Alpha's, you can get all of the aiming precision in the world on top of all of the flight precision in the world you want, it just takes allot practice to get to the level that you have on mouse.
You sir just got another loyal sub! Great content, waiting for more!!
Considering Star Citizen is just as much a FPS as it is a space simulator I think the single stick mouse setup would be best hands down.
Can you go into more detail about how these joysticks are configured for 4 strafe directions, thrust, roll, look around, etc.?
Sorry for the delay, I’m moving house and currently on the road. See my latest videos to get an idea what I’m doing. You can also download my binding charts from my Dropbox to see exactly how I have the T-16’s and Virpils setup.
Hey, I’d love you to cover dual stick and throttle, my absolute ideal setup. I have two Virpil constellations with extensions and the Mongoos T-50CM. It’s very cool, but there are also pros and cons.
The only throttle I have is a Warthog, and it's been collecting dust in the closet for over a year. I just don't have the desk real estate to add it in. When I eventually update the video, I have a few other input types I can add and this is one of them.
BuzZzKiller Awesome. Yup, my sticks and throttle are all on monster tech mounts. I wouldn’t recommend trying to desk that setup.
This was a great break down of control options thank you very much!
I'm considering doing a HOTASS. Dual sticks with a throttle. For normal flight use stick and throttle but for more flight precision switch to dual stick.
That's not too difficult to set up. Just bind your throttle forward to the Throttle axis and have throttle forward/back on the left stick Y.
@@BuzZzKiller I actually have it set up this way now. I use the throttle for constant speed travel between destinations. If I get interdicted I throttle to 0 and go dual stick.
i know this is old, but i found 2 boxes of dual tm1600s for me and my friend at microcenter. $138, which right now, is a dang good price. They have been price gouging since microsoft flight simulator 2020
You got lucky! Hopefully the price for some of these 10+ year old designs will go back down soon.
Yeahz they are older designs. I would love to find the throttle. Have yet to start star citizen, but also been playing warthunder
this clinched it for me that t1600 stick only makes most sense, since it means if I like it I could eventually upgrade to two of them.
Perfect video. Star citizen is good right now and getting better
I'm a madman who overloads all the buttons on my gamepad. I use the abxy buttons as modifiers for all of the other buttons in addition to default behaviors. My stick arrangement is odd too; pitch and yaw on left, roll and vertical thrust on right. I use that stick setup minus the thrusters in Kerbal, so I am used to it. In Kerbal it is nice to have pitch and yaw separate from roll and it makes navball based navigation intuitive.
You may be interested in the setup I use for SC, which is an Xbox Elite controller (the paddles add so much functionality). I use ReWASD software to add crazy functionality and I also have the chatpad attachment although I rarely use it, but with it I can absolutely replace M+KB for SC and my desktop. I use one config for everything in SC (something dual stick users don't do...its great for flying but not much else). You can check out my channel to see it in action.
I love your video's. I just switched to dual T16000m's and use you profile in SC and a different profile for ED. Your profile has helped me get started quickly.
how are ur sticks doing now ? was it a good choice to go for the t16000 dual ? thanks !
@@haustierone I had one drift on me and they replaced it.
Currently got a hotas setup (x56) And the limitations of not having 2 sticks. For space flight I can't recommend 2 sticks enough.
Really? I have the X52 and actually find it quite enjoyable with the d-pad on the front of the throttle picking up the other two axis I find I still have the full range of movement and can easily keep up with my friends who have more advanced set ups, plus I do a lot of space trucking and mining so it's nice to not have to hold my throttle the entire time when taking long journeys. But that's on elite dangerous so I'm sure it's probably way different on star citizen.
Honestly, as long as you have a throttle quadrant with a proper slew sensor (like with Thrustmaster's T.16000M FCS HOTAS), you have analog controls for all six axes.
currently in between dual joystick and a full flight pack (joy, throttle and rudder).
price difference is exactly double. Both full Thrustmaster combos.
..which one to get?
I recently started playing with dual sticks and it feels fantastic! For anyone one budget you can buy 2 x t16000 sticks for about $80. Add game glass and your experience will change dramatically
Done so too, only i find it difficult to get t.a.r.g.e.t installed and used corrertly
@@game4u2b I don't use target at all. Just use in-game settings
Hey Buzz, you really should try out the Thrustmaster FCS throttle. I was dual stick since early days but this made me switch. Lots of analog plus normal throttle. It is a gamechanger. Don't want you to be ignorant of the best modern throttle for space. ;)
I would hope that one day, they include Apache style head to weapon tracking to gimbal weapons for space sims.
Actually Star Citizen let you do this back in 2.x. Now they only let you look around.
They should consider bring it back. if only, the best reason is that in today world most modern fight platforms have head tracking for their weapons.
Something you missed is that many HOTAS setups have analogue sticks too, like controller thumbsticks. Which gives you all 6 degrees of freedom with analogue and some of them have several more analogue axis.
This is true. I don't consider the dials as useful analog axes (though they can be used for things like thrust limiting), but the thumb sticks and paddles on the Thrustmaster FCS throttle can be quite useful.
Thinking of picking up the T16000M to acompany my t.flight4. I can use the throttle for normal flying then immediately go with HOSAS on the fly.
How's the T-Flight held up for you? I've never used one and people have been asking me about it.
@@BuzZzKiller So far so good. I bought primarily for Star Wars Squadrons, but then got my butt down to properly playing Elite (using a gamepad felt game-y and not like playing a sim). I've put a lot of hours down in it and completely neglected Squadrons. Elite has forward and reverse thrust so the notch that centers it is useful to lock it to zero. Just wished there was a bit more resistance when its off center. But otherwise it's pretty smooth and like you mentioned in your video, with Elite approach throttle is essential. Especially if you want to manually supercruise.
I'm trying to find out if it is possible to use the t.flight and t16000m together. I'm sure it must be possible as using 2 sticks, the PC still sees them as 2 devices. The T-flight is connected via only one USB thus, it's considered a single device.
...Or use a SpaceNavigator. 6DOF in one hand, meaning full movement, and you can still use a mouse or another joystick. It's a mega high learning curve, unless you have CAD design as a background.
Been wondering about getting a setup like that for playing Elite, since an Xinput gamepad (even with modifiers) just doesn't cut it. The problem is, due to the virus of unknown origin and, most likely, the launch of SW Squadrons and MS Flight Sim, joystick prices have gone orbital. Not that the ones I wanted were cheap to begin with, but this is getting ridiculous.
Also, can a setup like that work with older stuff, like Freespace 1 and 2?
I don't know about Free space. Its been too long since I played it. I know it worked with the newer crowd funded Descent game that Wingman created.
Old but not that old. Coming from Elite. There are manual aimed weapons. Fixed weapons. in which you need to place your ship in a certain way or hit the target directly lead shots and such. Depending on weapon type. However if you mean with manual weapons that you target and follow your mouse or it is aimed in some other way instead of positioning your ship. Then I think your definition is right in this.
Been flying with dual sticks since your video/recommendation in 3.4,.. but thinking of adding rudder controls
The Thrustmaster has the same problem as my old MS Sidewinder... all the buttons are on the base. If you're in the middle of a fight or some tight maneuver and can't take your hand off the stick those buttons are useless. Even when you can safely take your hand off the stick, some of the buttons are awkward to reach because you have to lift your hand over the stick or pull it back around the stick to get to the other side. The buttons on the "outboard" side are fine, your hand just drops down to them. The layout seems more designed for a single stick sitting on the center of a desk with buttons available for both hands. I'm going to spend twice as much, but the VKB Gladiator NXT stick has tons of buttons on the actual stick (24, IIRC) and is available in a left-hand version. Even one of them will handle most of what I need for E:D. When I get the second one I'll only have to touch the keyboard to actually type something into a text box.
How does a duel-stick set up work in non-space flight sim games, like Ace Combat and Project Wingman? I love the idea of duel-sticks, but it needs to also work with throttle-based flight sims.
You can make it work but it’s not ideal. Some sticks like the VKBs can be setup so they don’t have return springs on the throttle axis.
I'm only used to games like Halo and Star wars and I don't remember those allowing you to strafe up and down while in a flying vehicle.
Then my guides are not for you. My primary focus is Star Citizen.
If you’re the same person leaving all the entertaining comments on my Dropbox files, thanks for the laugh.
Also.. flying with 2 joysticks looks really fun
for me the game I'm going with is Star wars Squadrons but on PS4 hence why I'm going with the Dual Joystick setup. plenty of buttons,dual throttle,double the axis,and lastly it's on the couch instead of in a chair. and when I"m a ship (imperial or rebel) I go to mouse and keyboard.
so....with so fiddling can homas work with space engineers?...i suck with keyboard controls due to poor motor control and if it can advice would be much appreciated
Also there is GAMEPAD + Joystick (16000) i am using. When i go down to planet on foot i use GAMEPAD + MOUSE.
I am using in left hand PS4 dual shock with left stick working as strafe up/down/left/right. L2 as throttle from 0 to max speed. When i am not in combat i use slider on right to adjust speed limiter and set ship in cruise mode. While in combat i use L2 with speed limiter for safe speed or switching it off for chase/rapid closing.
L1 works as modifier so with this for example L1+L3 is break instead of L3 afterburner. If i want to go back i use L1 and L2 which reverses L2 throttle direction. That modifier also means dpad has twice buttons, select is also twice and ps4 has touchpad with 3 buttons and 4 slides working as button in DS4windows software.
IT is kind of nice, less immersive that dual joystick but still kind of dual joystick just with smaller stick on left side.
That’s pretty cool. Glad they are allowing the game pad buttons to work as modifiers again. I wish they would do the same for joysticks.
It bears mentioning that in real life, the Apollo CSM used dual sticks. I wasn't able to find any details about its combat capabilities, though
Gimmie those sweet sweet bindings!
Well done
You save me the hustle
It will be 2 joystick
Nice video
Does duel stick only work for space sims like ED and SC? Or would they work for games like WT as well?
WT? World of Tanks? I suppose it might work. Depends on the game. I've used dual sticks in Mechwarrior Online MW4.
BuzZzKiller i meant war thunder. I’ve been told a duel sticks wouldnt work to well for plane and jet sims but i figured it would essentially be the same if you only use one as a thruster
@@angelarroyo6001 I've actually tried it on War Thunder. It's not ideal. For a plane you usually want to use a standard throttle because it doesn't return to center.
normal people: use pedals for strafe axis or yaw.
me: THROTTLE and the rocking functions are for landing gear and cargo hatch!
(edit: if I use the pedals for throttle in the dual stick setup, I can more comfortably fly without tiring my arms, considering throttle adjustments are a majority of your action in the game.)
Interesting. I just can't stand pedals. Maybe if I had a sim pit where they were hard mounted and didn't slide all over the place I would use them. But with Dual sticks I haven't felt the need. I use the cruise control function and decoupled a lot during travel so my arms never get tired.
@@BuzZzKiller ah. guess its more of my Elite Dangerous playstyle then. yea i wouldnt see the use for it in SC
I use a dual stick setup. I use 2x T16000m but I also have a Logitech Driving Force GT (DFGT) Wheel in the mix as well.
My main game is Elite Dangerous and this setup work amazingly well.
The basic (flight) axis setup
Left Stick: Strafe Left/Right (lateral thrust), Strafe Up/Down (vertical thrust). The twist toggles FA On/Off.
Right Stick: Pitch, Yaw and Roll.
DFGT: The pedals control forward and reverse thrust. I do have face buttons mapped to 75% thrust (Trust the Blue).
I call this HOSFOP (Hands On Sticks Feet On Pedals).
I have never got Star Citizen to run well enough to try flight (is FPS really tied to connection?), so I have no idea how well this works with it.
I just bought X4 today, so will find out if that is a possible setup with it and how good it works.
For flight I also have the face buttons on the wheel mapped to handy controls (75% thrust button, target wingmen and their targets, cargo hatch). Like wise with the T16000m's. They also have most used controls mapped to the head buttons, lesser used but still handy bindings are on the base buttons.
The wheel also make driving the SRV better (IMHO). But breaks immersion a bit when it comes to playing in VR (something I rarely do these days).
With Odyssey (although I am not currently playing it, gonna give it time to be fixed), good old KB/M for the FPS side of things.
Oh and I have incorporated a 15 key Stream Deck for quick access to maps, speed set keys etc.
after lots of research this video finally got me to decide on a HOSAS setup for SC and, if the game turns out good, Star Wars: Squadrons.
Glad to help. I'm not sure what the flight model in Squadrons will be like. But if it's like the old Xwing and Tie Fighter games it will be less Newtonian physics and more "Planes in Space". Nothing against that, as it ties in with the source material, but it may make a having a throttle the better choice for that game.
@@BuzZzKiller hmm, that's a fair point! Didnt think about it like that. However I have seen some people who were given early access to play game using a dual stick setup. But, we'll see. I dont pre-order games anyway so I have time to decide.
Now that the game is out, its planes in space, even though the imperial ships use dual joysticks in game haha
@@Nick_Whiskey I played it, dual sticks are actually very effective. When you let go of the throttle stick and let it go to center it's set to the most maneuverable speed.
you missed out eye-tracking tobii 4c is the best example, because it can also mimic the mouse and accuracy because of the eye retina the immersion is on the real, because of information is your eyes input, and because of this your output peripherals automatically act on impulse without thinking, the best example I can give is driving over your car, and VR does not have the proper capabilities yet, and that is because you have to wear it over your eyes and you cannot see other things you need to torch I hope this helps in your next video which I know you will seriously consider
I've been curious about how that would work in SC. But the hardware is pretty expensive just to experiment with. I'd love to see a video of it in action.
Unless you have a ''Multi-role'' simulator like I do :)
I'm using a Logitech X56 (Throttle and Stick) mounted on each sides of my seat. I'm also using a Logitech G29 wheel with pedals as for when I drive vehicles. To move around in Star Citizen, I'm using a Rii keyboard with a track pad which is more accurate than you think. This wireless keyboard is quite small and does fit into the cockpit.
All of my wired controlers are going thru an Amazon 10 USB 2.0 hub, which is also quite cheap.
I will soon add an Oculus Rift S to my gear.
Maybe I'll post a video of it someday but when I get the time to make the video.
As for my opinion, I prefer the Hotas option since it fits more than space games. I also play Flight sims so with the dual stick it just doesn't work for me but like you said, for space game that rocks !!
Cheers
I’m considering switching to dual stick... nice video buddy.
Why use dual joysticks when I can head shot with a mouse and flight movement with left joystick?
You can pich, bank and role with one joystick, but how would you have x, y and z movement on the other?
Strafe Fwd,Back,Left,Right,Up,Down.
If you can buy a HOTAS, you can add to that configuration pedals + keyboard + mouse.
Pedals + HOTAS for spaceship.
Keyboard + Mouse for FPS.
I have a Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS and I even did some bindings for it as a special request from a friend. But it's not a stick made for space sims since it doesn't even have a twist axis. Pedals are more trouble than they are worth IMO unless you have something to hard mount them to. I don't so they slip and slide everywhere and are generally uncomfortable. Once I finish my house move, I may end up getting an FCS Hotas and start doing bindings for that. They seem pretty popular right now.
T1600m + FCS throttle gives full 6dof plus more usable buttons than dual T16k. ;)
Hey Buzzkiller, van you make a vid for a dummy like me how to make target installed, work with sc,... and of course the best setup for my dual thrustmaster sticks pls?
I use left stick twist to control throttle. Throttle up: Twist right, Throttle down: Twist left, Full range.
Do you have a tutorial for getting dual stick set up for elite dangerious? I am having a lot of trouble
No sorry. Haven't played ED in a couple years.
I used to have a full racing sim plus a joystick, sold it all a few months ago but I want to play something with better immersion, was looking for Hotas joystick, at the end I decided to buy 2 Logitech 3D Pros, it is very cheap now, I played Elite dangerous for almost 100 hours and I always felt another joystick for the other axis would be the best, I'm imagining now how to control the throttle using two joysticks now... add a pedal for forwards thrust/reverse would be perfection, I used to use my racing pedals as that.
I've got Joystick and trackball: HOTBAS.
Saddly, some joystick controls axis cannot be binded on a mouse, like throttle axis. I am still missing to 6th axis.
And the new 3.8 hover mode is so bad...
Thats a cool idea, I'll try that tonight on Elite Dangerous
Very well done breakdown, thank you.
Weapon precision is as needed as flight precision for fights, leave such problem just to equip gimballed weapon isn't really a solution because you lower the firepower compared to fixed. I hope CIG will find a way to make joystick as precise as mouse
How can i setup my joystick for WASD? It does not get recognised:/ And i cant aim with that^^
Very late but after the flight changes from 3.10 making fixed weapons so strong I think it's time for a couple sticks. The name I see time and time again is the T16000m, so I think I'll be grabbing two of those.
They're a good choice for entry level sticks and the quality of the sensors is very good. The only downside is people seem to have a lot of problems breaking the twist axis on the newer ones.
Would setup both keyboard and mouse and joystick but only use joystick when using a killstreak in call of duty games
My joysticks have doubled since we last met, Count.
Good. Twice the buttons, double the cost.
Just gotta figure out which ones are compatible with linux.
Man I just got my dual vkb gladiators and holy shit I’m having a blast. I’m trying my best to have battles and not crash at the same time 😂
Have you updated your bindings for 3.24.2/3?
No need to. They still work fine.
0:30 what ship is that
Aegis Gladius
@@BuzZzKiller thanks
Really great video. What are the best arrangements of HOTAS with mouse and keyboard (TKL keyboard in the middle?) on the desk?
If you have everything on the desk, I typically put the keyboard in the middle with the two joysticks (or joystick and throttle) on either side. The mouse is either to the right of the joystick or in front of the keyboard. Optionally you can look into ways to mount the keyboard & mouse under the desk on a slider. (Search Amazon for Keyboard & mouse mounts). Or get some desk mounts for your controllers. MonsterTech makes some, but they are pretty expensive.
@@BuzZzKiller I have old but fully working saitek x52. I arranged my mouse and keyboard as you wrote but mouse became too far away on the right. Now I'm thinking to buy a cheap TKL keyboard which I'll use only with HOTAS. I chose this arrangement because I don't want HOTAS in between my hands and keyboard&mouse for ergonomics. IMO base of stick and throttle could've been much smaller but saitek keeps making same big bases.
Re:Controllers. Modifier buttons solve this. I use my left and right dpad pushes as modifiers to allow access to basically everything
Did they bring back modifiers for game pads? Or are you using joytokey?
I play Elite Dangerous, so they support in game modifier bindings. You just hit both keys when setting the key binding.
HI Buzz, video well done.. I have request for you if possible, can you make a video how you set up the duo sticks with star citizen? I just got a duo set from VKB but I’m having a little bit of confusion setting then up and keybinding then too. Thank you in advance
If you’re using the NXT’s I have a set of bindings you can use in the Dropbox. There is a readme file in there with some basic setup and troubleshooting steps. I also have some videos on how to import my bindings.
@@BuzZzKiller yes! awesome!! I do have the NXT.. thank you so much.. I'm looking forward to check it out today ones I get home from work. thank you again.. 😊
Could you use a joystick, mouse and keyboard and use m+k for out of ship game play and use joystick for in ship game play?
That's how my setup works.
@@BuzZzKiller Alright thanks for clearing that up, was just checking, I thought you were somehow using a joystick to walk around
Wow mouse stick and pedal sounds amazing. Is there a way to set up profiles to easily go from that set up to duel stick and back to mouse and keyboard?
If you're going to use HOSAM, I'd invest in an MMO mouse like the Razor. But yeah, it can be done.
A have a g502 wireless, dual thrustmaster sticks and I am now looking for peddles. I am so stoked to learn how to set it all up. Thanks for doing these vids man.
Is the thrustmaster T flight hotas 4 X a good one to start with
If you're looking for the bare minimum it will do. It doesn't have many buttons though, and only 4 Axes. I'd suggest getting the T-16000M. If you can only afford one for now, you can always buy a second one later.
Keyboard doesn't have over 100 keys. Even accounting for the 10key, the number keys along the top, the Function Keys, and the modifier keys like Ctrl and Alt, you have maybe 50-70 keys tops.
A "Standard Full Size Keyboard" with a numpad and Arrow Keys typically has around 104 keys. Get a gaming keyboard and that number can increase significantly.
Am I a weirdo if i'm using gamepad + keyboard for extra buttons + mouse for aiming? :D
Its pretty easy to set up your main ship controls on gamepad, use keyboard as a switch panel for miscellaneous controls and mouse for tasks that specifically need aiming. It does require you to get used to alwas hold gamepad with other hand when you use keyboard or mouse though.
Also, it should be noted that some devices in Elite almost "built for mouse", like FSS scanner. Since it has nothing to do with your ship's maneuverability and rotates pretty much instantly (no inertia), mouse becomes vastly superior to anything else for that specific mode.
It's not wierd. Whatever works best for your gameplay style and budget is what you should go with. I've used a gamepad in a pinch, but personally it just isn't fun or immersive enough.
Your set ups have been by far the best and most comprehensive but for the life of me I cant figure the shit out. I feel like I'm dumb
Make sure to check the readme files. There should be one general readme and one specific for each type of joystick. If you are still having problems let me know and I can try to help.
Ever seen an analog mechanical keyboard? Wooting is making them. It would be interesting to see if it improves gameplay.
I've heard about them. But I doubt the keys will have enough analog range to be very precise. I've tried the Lexip 6DOF mouse as well, not very good.
Hey buzzz, were those the long extensions or the short extensions from virpil? Do you like them and which one do you prefer. I am going dual stick set up and I dont think I need the long desk extensions but I dont want to undershoot either..
I don't have any extensions on mine. You only need extensions if you are planning on mounting them very low.
how do I change the bindings with my dual stick thing? In joy2key or in star citizen options?
In-game bindings are changed in-game. JoyToKey bindings only change what keyboard buttons are bound the the joystick. The only JoyToKey binding for the T-16's is the left trigger.
@@BuzZzKiller Makes sense. Thanks man
Very informative. Only problem is the audio volume was very low.
While i have basic locomotion/interaction useable on dual deltas I'm eagerly awaiting the mouse pad for the virpil deskmounts at which point i will use hosasam switching to mouse for FPS combat. Right now im using axis to button to handle lean, crouch, and jump on the left stick as well as the thumbstick for movement. Would be sweet if CIG would create an analog axis for lean and crouch.
At any rate glad to see youre posting again. Does that mean you're stateside?
Any chance we might get a constellation alpha joystick review?
Not likely. The sticks are expensive, and I'm happy with my Deltas.
you forgot about HOSASAT or dual stick and throttle
Amore appropriate question would be, Why play an unfinished game? I personally rather save the experience for when the game is fully completed in 5 or so years from now. What's the point in playing a game where your progress gets wiped and ships cost hundreds of dollars? Hopefully by the time the game is done you all still enjoy the game and are not bored of it.
Its crowd funded, so If no one was playing it, it would never get made in the first place. Look, I get it. I've been disappointed and frustrated at times at the apparent lack of progress too. And CIG's funding model seems to get more and more predatory. But then I remind myself that I backed this game for the experience of watching it be developed. And to eventually play another epic Chris Roberts masterpiece like Wing Commander or Freelancer. Its not for everyone. Especially in this "I want it now!" generation. But I'm confident the game will be finished and it will be enjoyed for years to come.
@@BuzZzKiller I backed it, that is not the point, i own a starter pack but played maybe 1h 3 years ago. i'd rather save the experience for when it is completed. i never said no one should support it. IDK i have a hard time expressing how i feel on the subject. i just wonder why people would play an unfinished game and spoil the experience for later.
Do you have a single joystick configuration to try? thx
isnt dual sticks worse off for combat when compared to a mouse and stick?
Did you watch the video? I covered that.
Though things have changed a lot since this vid was made, and right now Auto-gimbals are king in SC. So the advantage has gone back to sticks.