ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 มิ.ย. 2024
- Also covers flight sticks! Includes: VKB Gladiator NXT EVO, X-52 (PRO), Thustmaster t16000m and Warthog, Turtle Beach VelocityOne, Logitech X-56, Winwing Orion2, Virpil Constellation Alpha, MongoosT-50 CM3 Throttle, VKB Omnithrottle, Gunfighter Mk IV Ultimate, STECS Mini/Plus/Standard/Max
Thanks to jubuttib for providing the image of the printed base plate.
Want to say thanks and help keep the channel rolling? Drop a super thanks or donate here:
ko-fi.com/watchmysh
(Best way to support, I receive 95% of the donation!)
HOTAS Spreadsheet: docs.google.com/spreadsheets/...
Affiliate discount link & code for the Next Level Racing store (use together to save 5%!):
Link: nextlevelracing.com/?ref=7462
Discount code: MYSH
US only!
Use these affiliate links if you want to support the channel (German links below) or drop me a super thanks. You don't pay more, I just get something in return from Amazon:
USA affiliate links:
Thrustmaster T16000m FCS: amzn.to/3W16EWS
Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle: amzn.to/3XisGVV
Logitech X-56: amzn.to/3Gwkf2t
T-Flight HOTAS: amzn.to/3vNTdPr
Logitech Extreme 3D PRO: amzn.to/3Xitp9B
Turtle Beach VelocityOne: amzn.to/3W0yZwj
Logitech X-52: amzn.to/3QrOvjI
Logitech X-52 Pro: amzn.to/3Gsn9p7
Germany affiliate links:
Thrustmaster T16000m FCS: amzn.to/3GCeMrg
Thrustmaster TWCS Throttle: amzn.to/3CDRfoy
Logitech X-56: amzn.to/3CyG8x2
T-Flight HOTAS: amzn.to/3vSpc0Y
Logitech Extreme 3D PRO: amzn.to/3ICKJC3
Turtle Beach VelocityOne: amzn.to/3XeC8JS
Logitech X-52: amzn.to/3W0s4U1
Logitech X-52 Pro: amzn.to/3X1KwwT
WinWing Store: wwsimstore.com/view/shopping....
VKB Europe Store: flightsimcontrols.com/shop/
VKB Store: vkbcontrollers.com/
Virpil EU Store: virpil-controls.eu/
Virpil US Store: virpil-controls.us.com/
Virpil Main Page (EN/RU): virpil.com/en/
00:00 Intro
00:46 Summary
02:39 The most important part
04:20 Logitech Extreme 3D Pro
04:58 Thrustmaster T.Flight Hotas
05:40 T16000m FCS
06:59 Turtle Beach VelocityOne Flight Stick
08:17 Logitech X-52 and X-52 Pro
09:22 VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Standard
10:50 Logitech X-56 Rhino
11:45 VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium
12:00 Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS
12:41 WinWing Orion2 Metal Warthog System
13:46 Virpil Constellation Alpha Prime & CM3 Throttle
14:47 VKB Gunfighter MKIV Ultimate & STECS Throttle
15:40 Recommendations for each budget!
20:18 Important notice before you buy!
21:14 Upgrade paths
22:26 Data spreadsheet - เกม
Additions:
- The Thrustmaster Warthog grip fits on a Virpil gimbal without adapters (thx @delayed_control)
- The Gunfighter MKIV Ultimate has optional twist (thx @HerrMatthias)
- The rapid fire trigger of the Gladiator Premium is a trigger that can be pushed and pulled (Thanks @jubuttib)
- The Gladiator with omni module probably is the best right handed throttle unit on the market right now and also quite affordable (Thanks @jubuttib)
- The Gladiator comes with 3 different springs (soft, intermediate, hard) instead of 2 (Thanks @det.bullock4461)
- The Gladiator's mini stick and throttle use potentiometers and are not contactless (Thanks @det.bullock4461)
- these potentiometers are of high quality though and only very rarely a case of complaint (VKB support)
- If you're looking for an ultra high end solution with force feedback, check out the brand "Brunner" (thanks @smaxfpv1337)
- also check out the VPForce base. It's compatible with most higher end grips (thanks @Tonyyfox)
- The T.Flight HOTAS X has worse precision and a different PCB than the ONE or the 4 (thanks @michaely6665)
- You can soften the spring of the VelocityOne a bit by slightly losening the four screws on the metal plate holding it (thanks @Jarvice)
- The X52 actually has a pincer gimbal with a center top spring (Thanks @supercoolstar2356)
- If you value toughness over anything else then check the CH Products stick and throttle (thanks @ sahhull)
great guide man 👍
i was thinking you will do 2023 update since 2022 guide was great too
@@diprosla592 Thanks! I'll release an updated one every november :)
@@WatchMysh One small addition regarding the Gladiator: the minithrottle on the base uses a potentiometer as does the ministick on the premium version, also the stick comes preinstalled with intermediate springs plus a couple of spares for the same, soft and hard springs are additional options.
@@det.bullock4461 Oh, really? I was sure the throttle also used a hall sensor. And I completely forgot about the mini stick! Thanks. This goes straight to the sticky ...
My Gladiator came with various springs, though. Maybe that's new? It's like 2 months old.
I'll check back at VKB.
@@WatchMysh the sets of springs with spares that come with the stick are three. Soft, intermediate and hard. The intermediate are marked as #20, soft as #10 and hard as #30 iirc.
Oh my god, this format of buyer's guide is the best I've ever seen. Thank you for putting all that together. Very clear, concise, helping with decisionmaking.
Wow thanks for the "loud" appreciation :) It was a ton of work but most people really seem to appreciate the effort. :)
@@WatchMysh Yeah it feels honest and giving ideas for progressions is really helpful. I decided I'll go with the Gladiator Prenium for now and upgrade gradually ! their throttle looks really good though so I might get that next maybe :p.
I had been thinking about getting a VR and flight sim setup forever for WT, maybe get into DCS/VTOL.
also got an Oculus quest 3, which hopefully will nicely fit the bill when it arrives !
@@faceless360 I think you've made all the right choices. Good plan!
@@WatchMysh This video REALLY helps - massive thanks for your excellent efforts.
@@marknewellmusic Thanks for the appreciation! :)
This was SO well done. Thank you for all the information!
As Thrustmaster T16k user, I can add its alright set if you can get it discounted and you're fine with occasional wrenching on it. Mentioned greasing of throttle and pedal sliders aside (silicone grease with PTFE additive works just fine), potentiometers do pick up dirt, thus occasional blast of compressed air or contact cleaner are a given to get them back into action, long term solution being replacing pots with magnetic sensors.
Easily the best video on this topic. This is going to help me make an informed decision. Well done!
Love this video. Don't miss out the upgrade path at the end. Amazing reviews!!
Phenomenal reviews and video! I am currently flying DCS with an old X56 and looking to upgrade. This video lays out all the options and is a must watch for any flight sim enthusiast who wants to know what the landscape is like. Thank you and subscribed!
Thaaanks and welcome to the channel :)
Nice video. Very informative. I did buy the dual VKB Gladiator NXT Pros with L/OMNI for Star Citizen. I switched from Thrustmaster T16000 and WOW what a difference!
A little tip i wanted to add is to look into your (local) used market. Recently scored a warbrd base with warbrd grip and desk mount for 125. New that set goes for 3 times the cost.
Its not a source you can rely on to get your gear of course. But its always worth a look.
Thx for the video, nixe update to last years :)!
If I could subscribe a thousand times, I would. Excellent interactive and comprehensive guide, thank you very much for this video!
Wow thanks! :) Giving my best with every video. Happy you liked it and it was helpful. Welcome to the crew!
Dude this video has such sick quality i am astonished!
Brah! Fenomenal descriptions, thank you!
And thanx for the docs!
thank you SO much! I watched this video some time ago now and this is how I ended up choosing the winwing HOTAS. I didn't even know winwing was a thing till I saw your video. I'm really enjoying my setup now. Thanks again for making this video. It is extremely underrated and more people need to see this.
I am a total biginer in this janra but after watching this video I feel like i have the best info to make the proper choice.
Thank you very much !
I just started playing Elite Dangerous, and even if it is repetitive I just like flying from point A to B, simple and fun. I have searched a lot of videos online, but you explain it so well ! Cheers
👍
Thanks mate :) What will you get? I think dual sticks is the way to go for space sims.
Mixing and matching works too.
I've been using the same CH Fighterstick since 2008.
Over the years I've paired it with an X-45, X-52 and since 2020 an X-56 throttle, the CH stick outlasted the Joystick that the Saitek units came with. The only thing I did with the CH was to put some silicon gel to lubricate the various friction points. it's been buttery smooth and friction less since.
CH gear is built like a tank. 👍
Amazing video, I was researching reading everywhere all week and this video has more information than the rest of my research. Thank you.
Thanks for the appreciation :)
Thank you, as someone looking to get into this sort of stuff it has helped a lot.
I've decided to go with your first upgrade plan after looking into the products, but I'll get the throttle straight away. Then the evo once the stick wears out and then a higher end throttle eventually.
Happy to help! :) Hope you'll enjoy your new gear. If you've got any questions just come back here and ask
I have the T.16000M/FCS/Pedals pack. Got it for around $350 CAD at Canada Computers a year ago. It has served me well in DCS, XPlane and MSFS. It's a great starter HOTAS and I do recommend using pedals and only using the twist stick as a nosewheel tiller in both civil and military simulators and the joystick throttle slider as a zoom control or for other engine control or flight control surface axis (i.e. propeller/mixture, speedbrake, etc).
Good idea with the tiller. :) Thanks for sharing!
I'm saving for the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium (Right Hand). Thank you for explaining all of the products!
You're welcome :)
Easily the best and most comprehensive review I've seen for Hotas. Tyvm.
You're welcome :)
Hands down the best review of HOTAS options and recommendations on the net. Thank you!
You're welcome :)
I bought an X56 and it started ghosting within a week, causing my F-16 to _shut down its engine and fall from the sky_ one day. I had it in a powered hub per Logitech's own recommendation and had even depowered the LEDs with no change. I cannot recommend this HOTAS system even to my enemies.
Lol damn that's a quick failure even for an X-56. What did you do afterwards? Replacement unit or got sth different?
@@WatchMysh I just threw it back to MicroCenter. I won't touch an X56 again; saving up for Virpil stuff instead.
@@jordananderson2728 Good choice.
I had that goshting problem and I verified that it was because of the USB port, requiring additional power (external USB hub connected to a 5V AC). And the throttle that is screwed started to give me random problems that I solved in this case by unscrewing and cleaning the connections with a specific product. It has not caused any problems again and I have had it for many years. It is a dream controller, especially because of the functionality of the mini joysticks, and as long as it continues to work I have no intention of changing it, but as correctly mentioned in the video, I would not recommend it because sooner or later you are going to have to deal with these problems.
@jordananderson2728 swapped from an x56 to a Virpil Const. Alpha Prime hosas setup with a homemade switch board over these past couple of months.
I am never going back, X56 is a horrible PoS that targets new and inexperienced users for an insanely high price for something so outdated.
Fantastic roundup, thanks so much!
Currently own the X52 Pro and considering to upgrade. Lots of great options!
Thanks! Happy it's helpful! :)
Wow you explained exactly my upgrade path with path number one. I'm currently rocking a VKB Gladiator Premium with a STECS Standard and T-Rudder MK IV petals. Couldn't be happier with any of it. You were spot on with all the gear I've personally used. Great vid MYSH
P.S. If you have access to a 3D printer, DIY-ing an IR head tracker is the way to go!
Thanks! :)
I'm currently reviewing a Trackhat V2 which works surprisingly well! Do you have a good resource on how to make a DIY head tracker? Might be a good idea for a video. :)
@@WatchMysh Sure! I followed a video titled: How to build a DIY Head Tracking System for UNDER $20 by Boosted Media, to build mine.
@@dinotyler8599 Thanks I'll look into it!
Almost did my upgrade path as well. I originally got the T16000 + TWCS combo, then got fed up with the stick and got a second hand X52 Pro setup to try, hated the throttle vs. the TWCS but the joystick was an improvement, so I used TWCS + X52 stick for a while. That step was the one missing from this, hehe.
Then got the Gladiator NXT and gave the X52 to a buddy, then got the EVO gimbal upgrade kit for the Gladiator NXT, got SEM, THQ and FSM-GA modules, got a K-51 collective, designed and built my own UFC and switch box, and finally this year retired the TWCS and replaced it with a STECS Standard. Got the pedals at some point as well and designed a magnetic brake and a viscous rotary damper mod for those.
@@jubuttib My "upgrade path" started somewhere in the 90s and is all over the place lol. :D It went back and forth. Things broke, got replaced, I went broke, had to sell the good stuff and use old crap, upgraded again later as things got better and so on... 🙈
Poggers! Never before have I clicked so fast on a video in my whole life. Thanks for this, Mysh!
Very informative and well laid out and up to date. Just what I needed. Thank you.
Thanks! :) I'll make a new one every year around november too keep things up to date.
Thank you very much for this detailed video! Helped me out lots making a final decision.
You're welcome! :) Thanks for the appreciation!
I went from Warthog to the Virpil hotas. Including peddles. They are amazing!!
They are :) Congrats and have fun!
I have been pleased with VKB. I bought a x56 while it was on sale while I was waiting for the VKB gladiator to compare. I returned the x56 after many attempts to get it to work correctly. VKB supports there product and even post videos on how to fix their product and sells the parts. Picked up the cheap thrustmaster throttle while I was waiting for the VKB throttle to release.
VKB make great stuff. Good choice to compare and return the X56.
@@WatchMysh one of the few companies whom is ran and worked by individuals passionate about their product.
@@burnbarrelnetwork4013 Totally!
@@WatchMysh i bought my dad the X-56 to get him into flight sim for Christmas, will it work well enough for that at least?
Fantastic guide, insightful and concise. With pratical, easy to understand recommendations involving a wide range of use cases and needs.
Thank you very much for this!
Thanks for the appreciation! :)
Excellent presentation, now I can choose wisely, thank you!
Great Review. I had an X52 System for the last 15 years. It served me well because it was the only real HOTAS that was in a normal price range at the time I bought it. I had it stored away for a couple of months and started playing DCS last year. Unfortunately, the B Button was kaputt, the soft plastic started to desolve into goo and I had issues with axis precision. So I went looking for the last joystick I will ever buy. I knew that the plastic X52 was not what I wanted again, so the Pro and the X56 went out the window as well. The real Warthog was priced just above 450 bucks and for that money you get the WinWing Orion 2 EX with the F/A-18 Throttle.
As a guy that started using Joysticks in the 80s, this thing was a revelation. Built like a tank, and in direct comparison to X56 and Warthog so much more value for your money. Very precise and no, you can never have to many buttons when playing DCS. I also looked at Virpil but the cost was between 600-700 for a similar system, VKB did not deliver to Switzerland at that point. If you play with the thought of buying a starter stick...go for it and try out if you even like games like DCS and upgrade later. If you are in the market for a mid tier stick 200-350 bucks...please save three more months and go for the Orion2.
I've had the og x52 for about 4 years now. It had been pretty good to me. Just wish the software was a bit more user friendly. Looks like a shitty spread sheet.
With no doubt. thats the best guide for flight Sticks on TH-cam so far. Not too short, not too long and explaining why the cheap sticks are not durable.
Special thanks to your links. US and Germany/EU. There are US-Shops and EU/German shops in the description. Well done! I am searching one for SC and Your video helped me a lot!
Thanks for the appreciation! :) I've already collected a ton of updates and corrections. The 2024 version will become a lot better. Did you consider HOSAS for Star Citizen?
@@WatchMysh I am searching for HOTAS at the moment. But HOSAS could be an option.
This is a fantastic summary. Thank you so much. I'm a long time lover of flight sims but life has gotten in the way of the hobby. now building a nice computer and planning to eventually get back into MFS. I was going to save up and splurge on the Warthog but after seeing this I think the Orion2 Hotas will win my money no question about it. Now I need to explore your channel for pedal recommendations 😀
Thanks :) Nice to have you back flying. Sadly I don't have a video about pedals but it's already in the research phase.
Take your time. I need my wallet to recover from the PC parts....!@@WatchMysh
this is literally the best review/buyer's guide video for any product on youtube. its too comprehensive and goes over and above in every way that I can imagine. love your dedication.
Thanks!! :) I'll do an update every november so I hope the next one gets even better with everything I've learned so far.
Man, and here I am still using a CH Products Combatstick and throttle.
They are harder to get rid of than a bunch of roaches :D Tough gear.
I know that WW, VKB, and Virpl all have their own controller software for their devices, each with varying degrees of simplicity/difficulty to operate/setup/program devices and how they interact with differing OS's. It would be interesting to see how those compare (ease of use, installation, setup, actual use, programming each device, etc..). Just a thought.
It's on my ever growing list :)
Genuinely helpful video. Just what I needed. Thank you!
Thanks for the appreciation :)
Oh my god! What a video. Im usually not the commenting type but holy shit that was good (from a perspective of a noob). Thank u very much. I just started playing Star Citizen and really want to get into the Hotas theme and i think u get a the Thrustmastercombo to try it out and upgrade later to the gladiator. Again thank u very much, this defenetely helped me!
Happy to help :)
Thanks a lot!!! Ordered Thrustmaster T-16000M FCS HOTAS for first HOTAS, later will decide. Your video was very helpful! Best regards.
I dont even know how I ended up on this video, but this really was a quality buyers guide. Major plus points for the spread sheet because there is nothing that isnt instantly made better by a spread sheet!
Thanks! :)
I've been using the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium and the VKB Gladiator WW2 Throttle for about 6 months now. I have been very pleased with both of them. My only complaint about the stick is the very loud spring in the main trigger. It is an audible click that my microphone picks up when recording. Very good feel and response to both devices though, and I don't regret my purchase at all.
How do you like the WW2 sticks compared to others? I’ve been interested in it but I’m wondering what the big pros are
@@BrockvsTV This was the first throttle I've purchased. I previously only played with a stick. So, unfortunately, I can't compare this module to others.
However, it was considerably cheaper than the other VKB throttle sets, and had 30+ buttons switches, which are more than adequate for the warbirds I fly. I've been very pleased with it.
Edit: I don't have the WW2 stick, just the throttle. I have the Space Combat premium stick.
@@darthvegan sorry, messed up and meant throttle instead of stick. But thank you for the reply. With all the buttons it seems very up to the task
@@darthvegan pack the trigger full of non-conductive automotive/aviation grease. Then cycle it a bunch. You will have to deal with some "leakage" for about a week, but after that it'll stay in place.
BMS 3-33 should work.
Can't even explain in words how good this video was! Just getting into these kinds of systems and was shown VPC but wanted a cheaper starting point to figure out, if i wanted to go all the way with this.
Going with the VKB Gladiator as my first! ty a lot for making my decisions waaaayy easier :)
Subscribed
Glad it helped so tremendously! 🤗 And welcome to the channel! :) VPC builds great stuff but the Gladiator is perfect to start out. I'm still using one occasionally in spite of having "better" gear available. Resell value is also good. So if you're upgrading someday you'll be able to sell it for a good price within seconds.
Wow! Thank you for this information, I greatly appreciate your help.
And I greatly appreciate it being appreciated :) Thanks!
With regards to the Thrustmaster T1600 you can have two sticks for a HOSAS setup which is apparently - I've not tried it - very useful in space sims. My first proper stick was a Suncom F15 and I moved to a Thrustmaster Cougar which is still working fine after 20 years.
It is. :) HOSAS is great for Star Citizen for example.
Can confirm everything about the X52pro. It was great for the first 3 years (bought for Elite dangerous release) But the rotaries on the throttle are spotty at best, and the centre is now a range rather than a point. The throttle itself has worn the wire harness down so then when you go from ~90% to "afterburner" it'll flicker the lighting and stop other buttons from responding.
The mouse nub has never worked for me. So I made it into a 4-way switch with 20% bands on up/down and left/right. it sits in neutral. The slider also became spotty at best after a few years of use and has also been relegated to a 2 way either/or switch that toggles two mutually exclusive functions. Same with the 2 rotaries.
The stick has won over the years, as I tend to hang off it, so it's got a bit of play, and only 3% dead zone has been added in the software. The main silver hat switch buttons are nice and cheap. They all are, but mainly using those I wore two of them out, so they double-clicked, then stopped responding. I fixed it by soldering in some new switches. But still.
Overall, for a first-time HOTAS, well worth it. Mine lasted well over 400 hours of hard use before starting to develop some of the issues.
The worst thing about it is the old Saitech drivers. They. Are. Trash.
Noticed the same stuff. The first thing that gave up on my Pro was the slider on the throttle. Then the lighting followed. Shortly afterwards the rotaties began to jitter like crazy. But I also had it for like 3-4 years. And yes ... the old Saitek drivers are godawful lol
I own hotas tflight 4 for 3 years and after i washed the stick from inside with help of YT video, it works like its new 😊
Did you clean the potentiometers?
@@WatchMysh yeah man, i cleaned it with rubbing alcohol
The best review of HOTAS systems I have seen on YT so far.👍
Thank you! :) Check the sticky comment to see some additions and/or corrections! I'm always collecting information!
Easily the best video on HOTAS I have ever seen. Thanks so much. Particularly appreciated the upgrade scenarios.
Thanks! :)
I use a T16000M and FCS (with the TM pedals).
The stick has heavy centering for the length of it, so for precise flight (air-to-air refuelling and formations), it is quite tricky to get set up right - custom curves near the centre so you don't overcontrol when getting past the static friction + spring combo, but also don't overcontrol in vertical formation manoeuvres, are vital. I also don't think it counts as a HOTAS, with 3 buttons, 1 trigger and an 8 way hat, then the other... 12 buttons on the base, you end up with your hands off the stick or throttle a lot. Also, the LED in the base lights up whenever you move the stick and switches off again a few seconds after you stop moving it. Can't be switched off. Bit shite there. Never used the twist function, but might be a good axis to rewire to a more reliable function as I have pedals for rudder/NWS...
The throttle - not had problems with slider smoothness yet, after... 3 years with it. But the roller on the left side is *garbage* and makes NO sense as an axis, and the TDC slew ministick has developed a nasty drift that has reduced me to using a modifier switch to stop it doing dumb shit without being asked to.
The pedals are fine, they are the cheapest feeling part of the whole thing, possibly a bit tricky to tell when they're centred at times.
Thanks for taking the time to share your experience! :)
Amazing video! Many many thanks!
Got myself VKB Gunfighter and that Thrustmaster throttle as my first hotas setup. STECS wasn't out back then. Ended up getting the Gladiator omnithrottle for the left hand since I mostly use sticks in Star Citizen. Can definitely recommend VKB products,
Quick note on the "Rapid Fire Trigger" on the VKB Gladiator NXT EVO Premium, since it so often gets mentioned but almost never explained:
It's basically "just" a 2-way rocker in the shape of a trigger of sorts, you can either push it or pull it, and it basically adds two extra buttons that are easily accessible by your index finger.
It doesn't inherently have any kind of rapid-fire features (though VKB's software definitely allows you do to that, and so so so much more), and it isn't a turbo button, it's just more easily accessible buttons you can use for anything you desire.
Yes. They just call it like that. Should have explained it. I'll add it to the sticky! Thanks for helping and here's your Heinz:
I really like the idea of this "2-way trigger". It's quite unique and very useful.
@@WatchMysh Yeah, I've used it for everything from replicating a flip trigger to operating my landing gear to adjusting radar elevation to turning on landing lights. It's really useful. =)
@@jubuttib Same. I have "better" gear here but I just love to use the Gladiator. It's an awesome little stick.
@@jubuttib never used it for anything like that. For me (I use both a omni-throttle & prem for both DCS and SC) I always kept it for actions that I would want in quick access for the overall function of the stick, but not something I would use with the trigger at the same time.
For example, in SC my omnithrottle is strafe/thrusters, so my trigger is for boost (second stage QT, since if I'm on the run, I can engage warp while boosting). The rapid fire trigger, engages the space brake if I push it away, and if I pull on it, decouples my ship.
My right stick is all orientation based, which is how you aim. So my trigger is based my guns, my rapid fire is set to where if I push away on it, I go into missile mode, if I pull on it I fire a missile.
@@WatchMysh The Virpil Alpha grip has the same feature btw. The cover in front of the trigger can be pushed away (and activate a button) and it will stay there, or you can pull it and activate a different button. But when you let go it will return to the middle. You can pull it all the way through and still activate the first and second stage trigger of the normal trigger unit.
From personal experience the T1600M is nigh indestructible, the twist sensor did break in a year, but I got the TFRP Pedals to compensate, the whole setup has been going strong for 8 years with no other issues, now looking to upgrade for a more weighty feel and more accurate control. Thinking something like virpil constellation + vkb stecs throttle + thrustmaster pendular pedals
8 years is massive for a t16000m. Wow.
My twist axis developed ghosting after probably 200 hours of usage, I did some digging, found that it may be possible to easily fix with some cleaning of the potentiometer and spent 20 minutes on that. It hasn't failed me yet :P
The best video I have seen comparing HOTAS's. In sofar as my knowledge goes, I agree with many, if not all of your observations and conclusions.
This video is very recommendable for anyone who is looking for information about what HOTAS may suit them best. The upgrade paths were a very nice and smart addition BTW.
I have only one remark: maybe you can add a bit more explicit differentiation in best choices depending on what people use their HOTAS for. Example: for the high end Virpil Grip you recommend the Consellation grip and I would agree, but only if you fly space sims. For people who fly (WW2) airplanes, having a small joysticks on the grip is much less useful compared to having more buttons, so I would tend towards recommending the MongoosT-50CM2 Grip.
Thanks! :) I put a lot of effort into these videos. Happy to see it being appreciated.
Regarding the Alpha Prime: I picked it because you can play everything with it. I have to cut out a lot of stuff to keep the the video at a reasonable length. The goal is to make people aware of Virpil's existence in this case so they can do further research on their own.
Maybe I can do a separate shorter video about specific grip choices.
Awesome breakdowns Mysh, thank you.
You're welcome! :)
15:30 Since you bring up the modularity of the STECS, I thought it's only fair to also point out that the Gladiator EVO and the MCG Ultimate grip also feature some modularity.
The MCG Ultimate grip allows you to swap the ministicks for 5-way hats, if you don't want analog controls on your grip, and it also has an optional twist unit that you can attach to it.
The Gladiator EVO grip has a few modular parts, you can swap the side button (halfway up the grip's side) for a 5-way hat or vice versa, one of the hats on the top can be either a 5-way hat or an analog ministick module, and the rapid fire trigger is also a module you can add in or take out.
In addition to this the Gladiator EVO base can add the NXT SEM, THQ or FSM-GA extension modules in huuugely varied combinations, there's just so much you can do with the darn thing.
Absolutely and thanks for writing all this down. It's always so tough to decide what's mentioned in the video and what is cut. I tried to stay below 20 minutes... but you see what happened instead. :D I'm currently writing a review of the Gladiator and will include everything there. :)
@@WatchMysh I can imagine, there are always things you could add but making a 5 hour video about all the things you could do is way less helpful than a general glance like this.
And I trust you realize none of this is complaining about the video, just trying to fill in some of the gaps for people who might stumble onto the comments, so that they can learn more. =)
@@jubuttib Yeah sure I didnt take this as a complaint. :) I asked for corrections and additions in the video and I'm already stunned about how many helpful comments already dropped within the first few hours since the video got published. :) This is exactly how I think "social media" should work. Thanks again for taking the time to answer people's stuff also!
I started out with an x56 and it developed button issues so was returned. Next purchase was the t16000 throttle combo. The potentiometer in the throttle slider failed so I returned that as well. Next purchase was the turtle beach flight stick. That developed lighting issues but decided to go the RMA route with turtle beach sending out a replacement the next day. Now on the forth replacement because of RGB issues. I actually think this is the best stick in the £100 range, feels very smooth in use. I want to add a throttle but wouldn't recommend the t16000 throttle, look at VKB.
Of course VKB is better. Compare the price. But if you live in Europe and want the best value for your money the Orion2 is your throttle of choice. Especially with the black friday discount it'll cost less than a STECS Mini Plus.
This is a very good guide. Thanks a lot buddy! I'm currently researching products to build my own sim setup. I was considering the full t16000 pack with rudder pedals included for around €210. Seems a very good deal if you want to start with the full set.
broooo whattt how have I never found your chanel before - amazing video(s) mate!!! grüsse:)
Thaaanks! And welcome to the channel! :)
A thing to keep in mind IMO is that "metal" does not mean "better" automatically when it comes to grips. If you prefer the feel and can tolerate the price, then that is absolutely something you can go for, but especially for damper functionality and even more especially for unsprung (helicopter) use a lighter grip is usually easier to get to feel "right".
The plastics that VKB and Virpil use in their grips (and bases and throttles) are not the same kind of chintsy toylike plastic that you see in the T16000 or the Logitech designs, they're much more along the lines of plastics used in good quality power tools. They're solid and durable, and molded very precisely. Taking apart a VKB grip (for example to swap out a button module to a hat module) feels like working on a well made machine, where parts slide in and out nicely, and everything fits together properly. Taking apart a Logitech X52 Pro felt like I had to bend and pry all the bits out, and they often "popped" out of their sockets, instead of sliding out. It's hard to really get across how much better the build quality of the VKB really is.
And one thing that supports this, at least for VKB, is the simple fact that almost all of their devices are designed to be taken apart by the end user, either for modifications or repairs. They're not afraid to let users tinker with them, in fact they always release guide videos showing how to do it. With X52 Pro I was constantly worried I'd break something, so far never had that worry with VKB, across 12 different devices (mine and friends').
EDIT: However there are other things that can play into this. The VKB MCG Ultimate vs the plastic MCG Pro is a great example. These grips have basically the same functionality available to them, and if the metal vs. plastic was the only consideration, I would personally never consider the Ultimate due to the added weight (though it is lighter than for example Thrustmaster metal grips) and cost. BUT everything is not the same. The MCGU also features just generally heftier switches that are more tactile in feel and the brake lever and flip trigger are also stiffer and heftier to use. The MCGU as a whole is a more pleasant feeling unit as a result. Not enough to make me buy it, but I'll definitely acknowledge it. My ideal would be having the MCGU switches and levers on the plastic version as well. =)
Yes, that's why I mentioned the difference between the WH grip and the F16EX. And nice to hear that the Virpil grips are now maintainable. My Delta was still bolted AND glued. Couldn't open it up.
Thanks for writing all these comprehensive comments! :)
@@WatchMysh Ah, don't entirely know if Virpil grips can be opened or not, just that they're made of good quality plastics from what I hear.
VKB grips however most certainly can be opened and maintained!
@@jubuttib Oh my bad. I've read Virpil instead of VKB. Damn I'd really love to review a Gunfighter... but I can't justify to buy even more stuff than I already have or got sent for review lol...
@@WatchMysh Definitely like them, but the ease of swapping between helicopters and planes, and some aspects of the feel, still keep me with my Gladiator EVO... And I could probably get them for reasonable amount of money, I have a buddy who has two GunFighters that he's gonna sell, since he got himself a VPForce Rhino, hehe.
Do they even still make the X52? I can't complain much as I recently sold my Saitek X45 HOTAS for $60. It still worked perfectly after 22 years of use. Cost me $100 CAD brand new. I now have a VKB Gladiator Premium and a TWCS throttle ($88 CAD), mainly for DCS/IL2. The Gladiator is a great price/performance stick, but I will likely go with the F15E/Orion 2 from WInwing when I get a new throttle. VKB is $150 more, and Virpil is completely out to lunch with the CM3 (double the cost of the Orion 2 here in Canada).
Me watching a buyers guide knowing I wont be able to buy anything.
Reflects 4 out of 5 of my buyer's guide experiences as well. Last one I watched was about KTM bikes...
I’ve been sporting the x52 pro for several years. Just upgraded to a set of vkb gladiator nxt evo with the Omni throttles. Love playing x4 with them.
I love the Gladiator. There's tons of more high end equipment here but I keep coming back to it. It's just so well rounded and fun to use. Great ergonomics and easy to stow away.
Best thing I ever did was get my Virpil set up. Worth every penny. Just remapped for Elite Dangerous and they never get old.
I went all in on Virpil gear a couple of years ago and have a couple of sticks, throttle, collective, rudder pedals and each control panel. My throttle is a CM2 so I have no experience with the detents, and both my sticks is also the CM2 mongoose base units.
Feel free to ask anything related to their gear and I will do my best to answer 😊
Thanks for supporting the community & being available for questions! 🤗
Hi. I’ve seen some videos of the Virpil throttle where it has completely lost any tension and can flip forward and backwards with very little effort. Have you noticed any weakening of yours? Thanks.
Virpil here in Canada is GROSSLY overpriced. The CM3 throttle is literally double what the Orion 2 costs ($331 vs $640 CAD) after you factor in shipping (Winwing is free), exchange, and the ridiculous UPS brokerage fees when you order from Virpil USA. There is no way Virpil stuff is twice as good as Winwing😂🙄. Even the VKB Stecs throttle is $150 more...to play video GAMES.
Ouch :-/
Exactly the reason I went with WW. Though, there are times I regret it. WW's device software isn't exactly user-friendly, and because of limitations with in-game programming, sometimes needs to be split into units of 32 buttons or fewer in order to function properly and can therefore be a pain in the butt with in-game setup. Although, that limitation doesn't appear in every instance, some games are fine with WW's massive button lay-out, some aren't.
Personally, I love over-kill, it's so damned underrated.
Amazing video. I first thought it was an AI voice with generic generated script. But it's well researched and gave actual purchase recommendations and buying paths for all types of hotas gamers.
Lol hey my poor voice is not AI and as real as it gets :D Thanks for the appreciation.
I use VKB Gladiator and Omni Throttle. I don't block the left/right gimbal and use that acid as my rudder control. Other than the previously mentioned acid I remove all other springs and use friction to hold them in place so they don't recenter, no more need to trim, ever. 😂 Great video.
Your list is not complete. You left out the CH throttle and CH stick, all of which work flawlessly on Falcon BMS and DCS to name a few, yes while considered “old” are extremely robust.
Yes, I left them out because of their availability issues in the EU and the tough competition in form of the Gladiator NXT. The throttle unit also has mini stick jitter problems. CH stuff is rugged and robust but in my books their time is over. An NXT EVO does most things better if not all and is cheaper compared to the CH throttle + stick set.
@@WatchMysh Not to forget about the lacking support from CH. Their configuration software is barely running under Win10.
@@Andre-rc9xc Oh, good to know. Wasn't aware of that. Thanks!
@@WatchMysh It works if the CHManager is started manually (the automatic profile load doesn't work at all anymore). But sometimes it crashes and there was no update since WinXP. That was one reason for me to switch to Virpil gear.
Thanks for the updated video
Thanks for saying thanks :)
I've been simming for years but my 20s and early 30s were hard times. Had a laptop, a surprisingly reliable cheap old 2-axis joystick, and CH Pro gameport pedals modded to be USB. Upgrade path: PC, used T16000 FCS, off-brand ebay rudder pedals, VKB STECS Standard, and (arriving later today!) VKB Gunfighter IV MCE Pro with 200mm extension. The T16000M has given me no trouble but my TWCS is clapped out - ministick and slew axes pot worn, and the thrust axis pot needs careful dismantling and cleaning every few months. I fly DCS and X-Plane, and the STECS Standard gives me a lot of flexibility with the detent plates. Ironically I've mostly been flying helicopters with it!
holy shit this video is so info dense and helpful ty so much
Outstanding! Thank you!
🎉
I have the winwing orion 2 with the f16 stick and hornet throttle. Love it. Quality is top notch.
Good choice! I run this combo with the F15EX on my sim rig.
Been playing on my Thrustmaster baby T-flight hotas x for a few years now. It's been good and it's still pretty accurate and probably the best bang for buck product I've ever gotten in terms of sheer basic functionality lmao but I'm finding as time goes on I feel more and more limited with precision. I don't know if that's me getting better and reaching the limits of the stick or the stick simply aging. Either way, this guide is just what I needed because I was going to get an x56 lmfao
I didn't even know VKB was a thing, but doing some independent research (and of course based on your and the communities contributions) it seems like the NXT premium might be my next buy. Probably just the stick for now. Thanks man. Don't think anyone could possibly put together a better video on the subject.
Had a Tm16000 for a couple of years then switsched everything to virpil. Oh boy the difference. I can only recommend making the switch. It`s costly but you will have a totally different expierience. Everything is so smooth and accurate now.
Totally worth it :)
For the extreme 3-D pro and aspect to also consider is that with it being around 30 USD don’t just consider it as a single stick for the price of that stick three times you are still under the cost of usually the next upgrade. So don’t be afraid to go through two or three of them while saving up for maybe a hike into the virpl. it also serves as a great tiller and rudder stick if you are doing large commercial aircraft flying
Good idea with the tiller
Thanks forbsharing these with us. I'm wanting to get my hands on a good flight sim rig
Happy to help :) Did you find anything, yet?
My first HOTAS was a Saitek (Logitech) X45. Good entry, but made for Monster Hands :)
After contemplating a new set, my eyes fell on the VKB one. But they took so long to get the throttle out, so I decided to get the WinWing F16 Stick and Throttle.
Best Joystick purchase EVER! The quality is top notch and it is working great. Problem is that most games can't handle more than 32 Buttons...
As a rudder control I got the MFG Crosswind V3. Very well made and at a comparable low price (260 Euros) for that kind of quality.
Where did you get the crosswinds this cheap? Great deal! Nowadays just the base is 260 excluding tax.
@@WatchMysh just looked at the website. Black Friday week.
Edit: and prices are without tax.
Damn, dude. You killed it on this video. Well done! Thumbs up and sub for you.
Man, I miss CH Products.
Thanks! :) I'd really like to see some new products from CH someday.
Amazing and informative! You saved me a ton of money that i would have wasted. Thank you!
Mission accomplished :)
Thanks. I didn't even know about Virpil and my Thrustmaster's twist died after fixing it twice. I'll probably stick with my Thrustmaster throttle for now (since I upgraded it with bearings it works flawlessly) but Virpil stick+base seems like a great choice.
Yeah.. The Gladiator NXT sticks are definitely what Im gunning for now. I was unsatisfied with both of Logitechs sticks when I tried them a couple years back. Great comprehensive video
Thanks :)
Great overview! I'm currently in the Gladiator Standard + TWCS place, and currently thinking about a throttle upgrade. It's a bit hard to justify, because the TWCS is so perfectly serviceable, and losing the rudder lever also means I'd have to get rudder pedals. Desk space is also a bit limited, so unfortunately the big STECS and Winwing Orion are out. I might wait for a discount on the Virpil CM3 and get the VKS pedals in the meantime...
Thanks! Sounds like a plan. Don't count out the WinWing rudders by the way. They are sub 300 without the dampening kit and could be an option as well.
I have the WinWing and its soooo good! My previous stick was a Thrustmaster so it was a huge upgrade. I was a little worried about how long it would take for me to get it but I received it within a little over a week! Pretty impressive since it was coming from China. Ive had it for over a year now and it still works flawlessly. If you're looking to pick this up, I highly recommend it, and if you're like me and you don't have rudder pedals, theres a rotating lever on the base that works well for rudder control.
Which rotating lever on which base do you mean? My Orion2 base has no levers and switches at all.
@@WatchMysh Maybe lever isnt the best word to use. If you look on the handle there are two circular push buttons and to the right of those toward the top, you have the thumb stick that rotates in 360 degrees. In between the circular and thumbstick buttons you should have a grey cog-like dial with ridges on it that can be rotated forward or backwards. Hopefully that helps.
@@WatchMysh HOTAS Orion 2 base
End of 2019, I bought TM HOTAS 4 from Amazon for my PC. The aircraft used to flip to the right within a minute. It took me some time -15 days - to find out that I was sold a 'dummy'. When I opened the bottom panel, I found the m/board marked PS 4 2015. Amazon finally admitted their fault but did not replace this fake joystick.
My VKB gladiator came faulty out of the box... i have to say their customer service is excellent though. Cried once and went for the winwing, couldn't be more impressed!
Orion2 base & F16 grip?
thank you for this greatvideo , links, excel , amazing work !
Thanks for the appreciation! :)
had the T160000 throttle for over 5 years now and never greased it once and not added any mods
i did remove one of the 2 blade springs that provide tension and this made the throttle feel so much better (plus the tension screw sits better)
Thanks for sharing your experience with the springs :)
Great video, tired of all the AI bs goin on these days and your info and editing keeps me interested and feels genuine.
i am damn glad i found this channel. saved me a bunch of money in the long run. i am aboutt o start flight school full time so i need to make sure the setup i get will last a long time as i will be without a job for 12-18 months.. did not even know about 3 of these sticks. let alone what he said at the beginning about the gimbals. never heard of virpil, vkb or winwing. yet they look to be the top 3 and will last years and years due to all metal construction just sucks that none of them with a base included and are not ambidextrous so you can flight right seat or left seat. that aside not sure which one of those 3 to go with. also glad he saved me money on his video of the turtle beach pedals as that is what i had in my amazon cart but not anymore. i am going with virpil for 1 reason only as i like things that light up (i am leaning towards the virpil stick for that reason too). i am not good with mechanics and assembling things. if the win wing pedals came pre assembled i would use them in a heartbeat because the logo lights up. i saw your video on putting the win wings together and was like NOPE. even my wife was laughing cause she is like your hands are to damn big to to get into those small areas to put the leg mounts on. so virpil it is. many thanks to you and your videos. i may spend a tad more up front but will save money in the long run. thanks again for the great video.
does you know if the virpil grip mounts on a win wing base? just want to make sure before i buy the wrong base trying to save a few bucks?
Thanks! And I wish you every success at flight school! Virpil grips don't work with Winwing bases. Since you already chose the Virpil pedals also getting their base is a good idea because they use the same config software.
@@WatchMysh thanks for the quick response. i will do that and get everything from Virpil. many thanks again for the great video. really opened my eyes
@@dannycnoble Nice to see my work appreciated! Thanks for the encouraging comment! :)
@@WatchMysh would you spend $60 extra for the dampener for the ace pedals or do they not need it?
@@dannycnoble Hard to tell... I think if you don't fly rotary wing craft you're okay without it. The dampening kit should make the resistance curve more "pleasant", though. People say the pedals feel very good without and "even better" with a dampener.
I'm still rocking my original Saitek X52s from before Logitech bought them. I'll upgrade but I need to rebuild my simpit and get moar money! Excellent video!
Thanks! Wow, original X52s. I had a Saitek X52 pro until a few years ago. Held up quite well but then a hat on the grip snapped and the potentiometers on the throttle started to jump, jitter and didn't center anymore.
@@WatchMysh Still have it or not? Sounds like a nice little repair job for someone handy. But it sounds like you enjoyed the hell outta that system!
@@robertl4209 I really liked it back then but replaced it because of the lack of a mini stick as I started playing Elite Dangerous. I sold the stick to someone who repaired it and kept the throttle for a while longer to use alongside a Constellation Delta.
Same here, also bought a TM Warthog at the time but due to tiny room and desk at time that has remained boxed ever since. Play DCS but at time mostly the then new Elite Dangerous so Saitek X52 was more practical for living situation and fit the space theme better and is still going strong. Hopefully many mote years before the Warthog has to take over.
I got an X56 Pro from 4 or 5 years, no issue with it. Buttons works perfectly, so does leds. In gneneral, I´m happy with it. I know perfectly it´s not the best HOTAS in the market but in general for the price, you ´ve got a good product and do it´s job.
Nice your unit works well! Sadly that's not how it goes most of the time. Fingers crossed your X56 continues to go strong!
Man! Thanks for the video!
Thanks. :) I needed something positive right now more than you can imagine. So: thanks again for expressing your gratitude. :)
14:58 I think the MCG U/Pro only has 9 axis when you use the optional twist part? 2 axis on the base, 1 for the twist, 4 on the two ministicks, 1 on the brake lever, and 1 on the flip trigger = 9?
Also worth noting that DirectX has a limitation of 8 axis per device, so you can't have them all visible at the same time, and indeed by default the flip trigger doesn't show up as an axis (and isn't very useful as one, since it wants to snap to either up or down positions. Also if you do use the VKB rudders, and connect them to the same BlackBox as the GunFighter, the rudder axis will show up as being on the stick, so you might run into issues getting that to function together with the twist unit. One option is to swap out one of the analog sticks for a 5-way hat module, which frees up 2 axis.
Yes, it only has 9 with the twist part. Otherwise it's 8.
Thanks for awesome video! what do you recommend for long term use (meaning great quality) that has the most amount of buttons at fingers reach? that you don't have to lift your hand to press extra buttons somewhere else (like moving your hand from the throttle to the panel below in a STECS)
Hard to tell. Probably the F-15EX grip or the STECS grip. They both have a high amount of controls directly on the handle. You need to check them out specifically to see which set of controls works best for your needs.
I bought vkb evo gladiator.. omni.. and stecs...
Its best combination for playing msfs, star citizen, and others..
So many button and custom configuration to the button.. we can change with some custom button from their included button in the packaged.
And its has some modul to build ours cockpit.. and many many more...
Sory for my bad english..😅
And i bought vkb fsm GA and others modul from theirs too.. its amazing.. 😅
10/10 video exteemely well researched and explained thank you good sir i will be getting myself the gladiator nxt evo premium hotas temped for the x56 but im just replacing my t1600 stick that broke on me thankfully as the drift was getting out of hand
Thanks! :) And good choice. The X56 isn't very reliable. If your t16000m z axis is drifting though, you can fix that by cleaning the potentiometer.
@WatchMysh not after what I did to it in frustration haha
@@1996onlinekiller lol ok Have fun with your new stick! The Gladiator is great.
Took your advice on the 2 Guardians "flexible" option. Hope I like it. I really liked my Logitech X52
Thanks for this round up. I am currently firmly back in space game land: Replaying the WIng Commander Kilrathi Saga on my Steam Deck and deep into Elite: Danegrous on my PC. As my T16000M + TWCS Combo starts to show wear and tear, I am currently looking into how to replace them. And I have to say that the high end options listed here are VERY interesting.
Just have to figure out if they are compatible with the chair mounting plates I got for the Thrustmaster sticks.
Something you maybe could include in the next round up when it comes to the high end is compatibility with mounting solutions for all the sim pit enthusiasts.
The fact that both the T16000M and TWCS have holes for screws in their baseplates to mount them on mounting plates is another big plus for them in their price bracket.
Thanks and good idea! Noted! :)
OK after doing extensive reseach regarding mounting and after further inspection of the sticks for VKP, Virpil and Winwing I decided to stick with the TWCS throttle for now as that still works fine and first replace the T.16000M with a Virpil Constellatioin ALPHA.
My reasoning is, that - as you mentioned - half the base buttons are not very reachable on the T.16000M. And that is when you put the thing on your desk. Playing with your left hand on a throttle those buttons become a real hassle to use since you have to take a hand off the throttle or the stick to use those. This becomes even more of a problem when the stuff is mounted to the left and right side of your chair.
Now add to that the fact that I want to get stuff running in VR and thus have to manage to identify the correct buttons blind. It's a usability nightmare.
The Virpil Stick offers at least the same amount of functions and then some all on the stick all useable with the hand on the stick. And has an Adapter available that should make the base mountable to my existing solution from monmstertech.
It set me back 525€ but considering that this will be the last stick I'll ever buy and I have a little money left over it is worth it.