Thank-you that was a nice summary of the options. I've been using a seat mounted Virpil HOSAS set-up with pedals for some years now. Yaw on the rudder pedals, since this reflects full size aircraft practice.
I had Thrustmaster X Hotas available to use when I first got star citizen. They worked good but were too sensitive when it came to light fighters, making non gimbaled weapons almost impossible to use. I ended up buying two VKB Gladiators when they were on sale. Wow, the controls are so much more precise. I still suck as a light fighter pilot, but I am slowly getting better, and I can actually target ships with them. I don’t have pedals, so I use the left stick rotation for up/down movement. I might buy the slanted adapter in the future so it feels more natural, and maybe pedals. Anyone on the fence with purchasing a stick over Keyboard and mouse, I’ll just say it increases the enjoyment of flying x10.
i have VKB NXT Gladiator premium for right hand and VKB NXT EVO with OMNI Throttle for left hand. The Omni Throttle is a cool compromise between Throttle and joystick. You have the full range of a joystick and the feeling of a throttle. And if you want you can change the EVO into a full trottle by blocking the left/right direction. VKB is very cool when it comes to customisation. Also i like the buttons on the bases. I am looking forward to some extensions for more buttons. And to answer your question in the tittle. YES, using HOSAS or HOTAS is a game changer. i highly recomend. also i recomend a HOSAS setup.
@@CaptinLongdong1 they are great. i use them for quite a while now. I even added a SEM (side extension module). Its fun, its cool and it seems very durable. Also i think, dual stick (HOSAS) is the most recommended thing when it comes to fly a space craft.
Another alternative is a 3D mouse, which is basically a joystick with all 6dof on the same hand. It may be less competitive than hosas because everything is on the same hand plus it has lower precision, but it works quite nicely for casual flight. It also pairs well with a regular mouse for improved aiming.
I think the halfway solution of the omni throttle deserves a mention. a stick with angle and removed spring for foward/backward behaves and feels exactly like a throttle with the addition of strafe axis.
Awesome video! Great summary. I can definitely recommend joysticks over mouse. The only issue is super-precise aiming for me. As in tracking a pixel-sized enemy that i moving diagonally. I started with Thrustmaster T Flight X Hotas. It was great, but very soon it became clear that I need more accuracy. Plus I needed something sturdier. I went all in and bought Hotas Warthog. It was a huge step up, but soon I found myself lacking axes and controls on the throttle weren't exactly intuitive (except forward and back). So I got myself cheap T Flight Rudder Pedals from Thrustmaster to get some more axes. They were horrible and broke within a week. So I knew I had to go for quality. Precision, movement, durability. I chose MFG as they were the most praised back then. (Had to wait 3/4 year for them...). The setup was getting better and better and finally I replaced the Warthog throttle with T16000M. I am very happy with it. I might upgrade to something more expensive later on, but I find the setup "complete". I have enough control so that my flying is not limited by hardware, only by my skill. A note why T16000M joystick is an excellent choice: It has magnetic tracking. Your deadzone won't degenerate because of overuse. Not as soon anyway. ;) And last note: Seats. Although they do look great and and feel great and increase the immersion by bother level, make sure you have a keyboard and mouse handy. Especially if you are using VR as well. Getting out of the VR chair every time you need to use a keyboard or a mouse is quite a nightmare. So if you're going for a chair, do make sure you have easy and comfortable access to the keyboard and mouse.
2 VKB sticks as HOSAS, left one is with the z adapter. First time using such setup as of last week. Can attest - never going back to Kb+mouse for flying; it is not the same. BTW I have twist on right one for roll and strafe up/down on the left, no pedals but it is an option for some.
first long term use of this type of gameplay i had was Steel Battalion for Xbox and I've been fiending for a game that uses them. I'm sold on the idea now ty liked and subbed!
Thanks for this video! I'm looking for a setup for Starfield and I had no idea that this whole world of various stick setups existed. A stick on the left and right hand sounds like the most immersive experience to me so I'm going to give that a try.
I do have a virpil hotas with pedals and i find it very hard to control my ship if i use the pedals for rolling. On the other hand binding yaw to them feels more natural and has an easier learning curve. Pedals are not meant for rolling imo.
Yeap, imo pedals are not suitable for roll and are a waste on a $200 peripheral. I use mine like one would on a car. I find it much easier to match the speed of my opponent.
Try the toe brakes as forward / back strafe. Similar to a car, we drive every day. Dont use the center axis at all. Warning - do NOT bind any 1 axis to more than 1 input. Example - roll on both stick and pedals. The game lags when switching between them.
Even if joysticks don't make you a PvP PGM, it really makes the experience more immersive and increases a bit the manoeuverability versus keyboard/mouse (personal feeling here). But what I love most is the pedals, that really improves the experience over just 2 joysticks.
Having switched to roll on twist and seeing the benefit, I'm left struggling with yaw on X. Considering getting pedals now. Control systems are the biggest rabbit hole 😜
Thanks for making this video, very informative and helpful for someone who has owned SC for years, but is only just about to jump in and start playing it
Liked and subscribed. Good content :) HOSAS with Virpil Alphas: LH L/R, Fwd/Back, twist is Up/Down. RH pitch, yaw, roll. Thinking about getting a set of pedals. Tried HOSAT with the CM2 and didn’t like it. Added a Button Panel #1 (also Virpil) for common binds that I didn’t need on a stick and love it.
Using the right stick left right to yaw sounds like madness to someone coming from a long history of flight swimming. Roll being left and right and either twist or pedals for yaw will make for a much easier transition for people used to that control style
I don't have this game currently but have been watching a lot of videos and thinking about it. Coming from flight sims for over 25 years, and being in the USAF for over 30 working on and knowing about aircraft...maybe space stuff might be different, but for flight sims and aircraft in general the left/right axis is roll and twist or rudder pedals are always yaw. It just seems strange to swap roll and yaw to me, but to each his own...lol.
It's a common remark. In SC ships have maneuvering thrusters that allow for 6DOF and don't follow your traditional atmospheric flight model. Pitch and Yaw have equal power where as in real flight, Roll and Pitch would be the primary 'aiming' axis since Yaw isn't useful for fine aiming. Roll is still important to the point I would recommend pedals long term, but Pitch and Yaw on the same stick creates a powerful aiming device especially in dog-fighting. Of course the answer for you is to use what's comfortable to you, but if someone is approaching SC without any background in DCS, these are the configs I would recommend as there is no muscle memory. Cheers!
The Warthog throttle absolutely does have an analogue mini stick on the index finger in the same position as the T16000M placement. I wouldn't recommend the Warthog though, because it's made to replicate the real controls as closely as possible, the throttle isn't particularly ergonomic, and the buttons and switches on both stick and throttle are VERY heavy, which feels amazing at first, but for gaming just ultimately slows your control of the ship
For any of ppl wondering if they need one. In a nutshell, stick enhances the realism and that’s pretty much it. If you want to have it thinking it will benefit dogfight then the sad news is it won’t. In fact, if you aren’t somebody who plays dcs or any other flight simulator games it will be very hard to get use to or even backfire.
As someone who has many flight controls, due to flight games being my favourite as well as space games. I think roll would still be a twist function on my right stick despite me having it on the z axis when on ms 2020 for example. But also i fly with a yoke on that game. I have adapatable muscle memory plus it makes sense in my head to have roll as twist and cause ive always played space games with roll as twist if that makes sense.
Since i found out a couple of days ago that Virpil is shipping from Belaruse i might now switch to VKB after about a decade sporting my x52 pro that is now starting to show some wear. Still this is a beutiful setup though !
I swapped the the roll to the left for my preferences. I like to separate it from the pitch and yaw and then the strafe up\down has a rather large dead zone on the right stick since I don't use it much accept during landing take off.
I have: Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and stick and 2x cougar mfd button boxes + Logitech X52 Pro and rudder pedals. Not that I have any ground vehicles yet but am considering working in my Logitech G29 steering wheel and pedals. Ive played for a total of two days thus far so am not even close to having the keybinds worked out yet but at least Ive got a shipload of options. Yaw on a stick drives me nuts. Thats where roll belongs.
I remember thinking the same thing the first time I got my two T16000 almost 7 years ago now. What great options we have these days for dual stick setups!
Thanks for the review RedLir. Personally I fly with dual sticks, however I prefer to fly like a traditional atmosphere aircraft. For example nose direction and orientation is right hand. Left hand is all things ship velocity related. This helps me prevent bad habits with other titles that focus on atmosphere flying. Thanks, Mike
I use roll on my left z axis, i found it much harder to aim if i had roll on my aim hand. Also those nxt glads are fucking fantastic for the money. Only pieces ive ever had to replace in 2 years was one spring
Liked,Subed,Belled,Commented. Any chance of some file downloads for the different setups for Star Citizen. I am new to this and it a bloody nightmare tiring to figurer it out. Great Video Mate. It was well done. I wish I had seen it about 2 weeks ago, I would of gone duel stick not the X56.
Hey I just remembered there's a mouse with a thumbstick, by Asus I think. I might trying that one. By the way this ship looks SICK! Very alien, not my style, but still SICK!
As a real life pilot considering getting into this game, the idea of using my foot pedals to control roll and my stick to control yaw is breaking my brain!😅
HOSAS is the best in Star Citizen Price from high to low : Virpils -> VKB's -> TCA Airbus or T16000M -> any other common dual stick setup Performance high to low: Virpils = VKB, both behave like scalpel to an axe compared to Thrustmaster sticks, are net superior Virpil and VKB are pretty much the same as performance but Virpil is twice the price so it does not worth invest. Unless you are Terada 🤣 Throttle is useless in Star Citizen pretty much. Mouse and keyboard favors aiming better though, but it's nothing compared to broken relative OP mouse as in Elite where it's 100% like an aim assist for impared 😁 And all mousers defeat HOTAS/HOSAS users easily cause rails are just point and shoot. Oh and of course, pedals is a must for HOTAS/HOSAS setup so I need pedals now. I use VKB's
I would argue for swapping Roll and Yaw controls with Yaw being the the twisting action when using a HOSAS setup. It is a much more natural feel when controlling the orientation of the ship. IMO of course.
A lot of people feel that way, especially coming from atmospheric flight like DCS. The reason most of us recommend yaw on the X axis is due to how evenly matched yaw is to pitch in star citizen making it more of a primary aiming axis than you will find in most games. The X axis on a stick is going to be more accurate than twist in general which is why it's prioritized there with the pitch on Y, creating an overall aiming device. As with all things, everything becomes personal choice and you have to use what is best and most comfortable to you! Cheers!
I’m coming from just FPS games, aiming, sniping with 800DPI for years. I thought HOSAS is going to be great for space flight. But I’m starting to think HOSAM will feel More intuitive and will keep my precise aim of mouse but I just wanna get rid of the absolute inputs of the keyboard. So I’m thinking start with 1 trustmaster T16000M, maybe get a second one later.
I, too, started with the T16000 HOTAS, and wore it out pretty quickly. I upgraded to a VKB gunfighter base with Kosmo grip for my right stick, and adapted the left handed Kosmo grip to VKB's Gladiator Mk2 base (turns it into a Gladiator K). I like the button options on the older Gladiator base over wheels on the NXT base, but either option (Gladiator K or NXT) would be a much better starting option than the T16000. The VKB sticks are 2x more expensive, but they are rebuildable if you wear them out, unlike the T16k. Plus, I think you can upgrade the NXT base (plastic gimbal) to a gunfighter base (metal gimbal) later should you so desire. On a side note, where do I know you from? I haven't played in a while, but I used to be pretty active in Lucky 13. Weren't you one of Virtual Ace's cronies?
In an atmospheric flight sim that would be the norm and probably hard to break away from if you're used to that world. SC is a 6DOF, yaw has equal weight with pitch for aiming the noise of the ship, where as in a traditional flight sim roll and pitch are used. As always, use what is more comfortable for you. Cheers.
Am I strange that I use aircraft adjacent inputs for my gaming? I use: Right X is Roll. Right Y is Pitch. Right Rotation is Yaw. Left X is Strafe. Left Y is Throttle. Left Rotation is Vertical. I am trying to take the Yaw and Vertical to pedals with toe brakes, and it's taking a minute to lock it in to muscle memory.
on hotas set up roll should be by moving the stick left and right and yaw should be with the twist or pedals surely? I have a saitek x52pro which worked beautifullty with elite dangerous but I just can't get it to work or feel right in starcitizen.
What about a HOSAK Setup (Stick and Keyboard). Use WASD for your forward, backward, left and right movements like in a standard fps. It's not as precise, but it might be a more budget friendly option. Anyone tried that yet?
I don't think just a stick on the right hand buys you much in that case. A mouse is a very precise aiming device. May as well keep it super budget friendly at that point and just use KB/M.
We all had a warthog before other options came about. Point blank, the gimbal is terrible and will break down over time. It's an all plastic design that is prone to "sticktion" issues and over time develops play. The super hard center is also not ideal imho. For that kind of money you're much better off putting it towards an all metal design from Virpil or VKB.
Why would you use the twist for anything but yaw? Also, using the pedals for roll is weird too. Don't think I could ever get used it. But I have a traditional flight sim background
SC is a bit different as yaw has the same power as pitch. Most sims, including ED, yaw is a bit limited so pitch / roll are the generally the primary aiming axis in those cases. Pitch and Yaw on the X/Y make an 'aim' stick basically for SC which is why you'll see a lot of pilots bound this way. Cheers!
It's generally how people feel coming from DCS or real atmosphere flight backgrounds. These recommendations are based on 6DOF and the ships having mav thrusters. Since yaw is also 1 to 1 with pitch, unlike atmospheric flight pitch and yaw on the right stick, create an aiming device. You'll find most top-tier combat pilots in the game are configured this way for that reason. Using what's comfortable for you will always be the right answer for you Thanks for the comment!
Why do people put the roll on the pedals and not the lateral axis of the stick? Maybe it’s because my job is a pilot, but i just cannot wrap my mind around pedals controlling anything other than yaw
Hi Joshua. I answer this question a lot but it's because the controls in SC is born from space flight and not atmospheric where pitch and rolling is much more powerful than yaw for aiming. The Yaw in SC has the same power as Pitch so it lives well on the same stick as they combine to create an aiming device. The same goes for strafes on the left stick.
I have the MCG Ultimate with the thrustmaster throttle. I like to dogfight and am thinking of moving to HOSAS. Is there a reason why you like the Virpil Alpha vs the MCG Ultimate? Im looking for which stick I should get for my left hand.
Honestly I own them all and backups of each ( I have a joystick problem lol) I actually ordered an extension this week to give the Ultimate another try but the MAIN reason for me has been the 0 center CAM that the warBRD has because I like really heavy tension of springs. When I use the GF MK3, I use 2x 50 springs on each axis, so their soft center has a very noticeable 'bump' which I'm not a fan of. We'll see how the extension changes that. As for a left, SCG + Gunfighter 3 or an Alpha + Warbrd are decent options. The twist is significantly different between the two though so it depends on what you like. The Alpha has a longer throw but the twist is super smooth ball bearing. The SCG twist is more of a plastic on plastic spiral design that is a bit more hard center, but the stick has a MUCH shorter throw overall.
@@RedLir_Live thanks for the feedback. I remember playing against you in star citizen a long time ago and you whipped my butt. My callsign was ADMRL. I do notice the bumb on the gunfighter especially when moving the stick on a diagonal across the center. Even with the space cams it's not that great. Your experience with the warbird seems like there is no bump in the middle. Maybe I should try it out. I did want to stay in the vkb ecosystem since I already sank a lot of money into it. How do you the omni throttle adapter for the left stick? Sorry If I'm asking a lot of questions. But nowhere is really giving me a good comparison.
@@palazzolojoe The warBRD comes with a 0 center cam and they also sell a 0 center cosmocam (space) as a separate option. If you need to have 0 center on the left, then this is the only option that I know of. I've been asking VKB to make a true 0 center for years but no love yet. The z adapter is bulky but cool, it changes the way force is applied to the stick. I also ordered one from VKB to test this week as well!
Spaceships aren't planes though. They have 6DOF and maneuvering thrusters making yaw just as efficient as pitch for aiming the nose of the ship. Use what you're comfortable with though! Cheers!
Does anyone use a single flight stick like on airplanes? The 85x and freelancer have these types of steering as appose to the joysticks… does anyone use these instead? Just curious to know which one would be superior
I'm struggling. I want a HOTAS, both for a more real Terrapin feel and the fact I got Microsoft Flight Simulator. But I also have a Talon and Shrike that I love to fly, and I can't imagine how great it must feel to fly those with HOSAS to have full acrobatic control of those birds. I don't PvP, but I like to keep the option open, especially knowing PvP is almost always on. Any suggestions? I'm thinking a HOTAS with a mini-stick, but I'm not sure how immersive/good it feels to use a mini-stick for something as crucial as strafing & VTOL all the time, or how natural it feels in PvP/intense ship combat. Getting the vibe that the best flight experience for Star Citizen is HOSAS + pedals.
If my pc is below minimum specs shouldn't the game not run at all? Im new-ish to pc games...games that require 3070s that is. The game runs but I can't even leave the first spawn city cause either the elevators are empty voids that lead to smacking the ground or the train is invisible.
Im using mouse and keyboard, was very good in flying and dogfighting. I think joystick would be good and a bit of an advantage but I think you can get extremely good with mouse and keyboard and even compete with Hotas users (if you are very skilled). But the best mouse and keyboard player agains the best Joystick player would be the joystick player who will win more often.
Had an argument with a friends-friend, I made a bold claim that VIRPIL was the better set-up regarding sticks vs the logitech warthog. He stated that the logitech warthog was better since PC-gamer has them at nr: 1 and that the price was higher and therefor better than the VIRPILs. By my count the VIRPIL are more expansive, however I dont regard the price as an indicator as per se equals better, maybe an indicator but the overall quality of a product is in the details. Anyone out there that can give me some ammunition?
In aeroplanes, yes. If you plan on being competitive in spaceship combat, you will be at a disadvantage . 6DOF spaceships have different abilities, especially when aiming vs planes
@@RedLir_Live Clearly planes are different, but they are also 6 DOF and I was not making a comparison to planes. My comment was in the context of space sims. The only real difference being linear strafe, which you use the other controls for.
I have flown, both IRL and VR, the pedals are NEVER roll they're always YAW. Did you mix this up or did you really mean that you use the pedals to roll the air/spacecraft? I mean there are no rules, so do as you please... but it does fly in the face of traditional controls which you the body relates to quite naturally. I personally use the Gladiator NXT HOSAS but I also have the Logitech X56 Throttle and Logitech Pedals which gives me the best of every world, though it takes up a little more room in the pit. In terms of Axis, I don't use the left yaw axis for anything, instead I use the thumb stick to control my vertical thrust which is more natural feeling.
It's a common question for those coming from DCS or real flight. Of course in the end it's whatever the player is comfortable but it's definitely on purpose. It's more about the ships not having rudders and using mav thrusters. This gives yaw 1 to 1 power with pitch making them primary aiming axis that live well together on the same stick as a pointing device. Roll is moved to either twist or pedals in some form generally ( some put roll on toe pedals even ).
@@RedLir_Live that's not true, try mining without raw or even combat. The mechanical nature of flight/draft is essentially the same for both games. I. Sure they vary a little but 6DOF is essential to both
Oh I have. ED is primarily a pitch and roll game where aiming is concerned. SC is much different when it comes to yaw responsiveness which is why most pilots move it to the X axis. Cheers!
Some people use a keyboard, but this video was more about achieving fine analog control of the ship, which a keyboard doesn't really offer IMHO! Cheers!
What control setup do you use in Star Citizen?
M&K weeoo!
T1600m Space sim duo for now. Entry level. Saving up for a full Virpil layout as mentioned in your video.
VKB MCG Ultimate right side and VKB NXT Omni Throttle left side. In my opinion: The amazing Hybrid of classic HOTAS and Dual Setup!
Actually I have the same exact Virpil setup as you with an added button panel to bind non essentials to.
@@allantetaylor3692 Does it happen to be Virpil's Panel 3, because i have one out of view too lol
By far, this is the best joystick setup breakdown for Star Citizen on the internet.
Thanks!
@@RedLir_Live thanks man its so confusing the buying options and explainers really helped
Thank-you that was a nice summary of the options.
I've been using a seat mounted Virpil HOSAS set-up with pedals for some years now. Yaw on the rudder pedals, since this reflects full size aircraft practice.
This video is going into my permanent reference playlist, thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
I had Thrustmaster X Hotas available to use when I first got star citizen. They worked good but were too sensitive when it came to light fighters, making non gimbaled weapons almost impossible to use. I ended up buying two VKB Gladiators when they were on sale. Wow, the controls are so much more precise. I still suck as a light fighter pilot, but I am slowly getting better, and I can actually target ships with them. I don’t have pedals, so I use the left stick rotation for up/down movement. I might buy the slanted adapter in the future so it feels more natural, and maybe pedals. Anyone on the fence with purchasing a stick over Keyboard and mouse, I’ll just say it increases the enjoyment of flying x10.
I agree with the game being more enjoyable with sticks, some people say mouse aim can't be beat. But sticks are more fun.
i have VKB NXT Gladiator premium for right hand and VKB NXT EVO with OMNI Throttle for left hand.
The Omni Throttle is a cool compromise between Throttle and joystick. You have the full range of a joystick and the feeling of a throttle.
And if you want you can change the EVO into a full trottle by blocking the left/right direction.
VKB is very cool when it comes to customisation. Also i like the buttons on the bases. I am looking forward to some extensions for more buttons.
And to answer your question in the tittle. YES, using HOSAS or HOTAS is a game changer. i highly recomend. also i recomend a HOSAS setup.
How are those 2 joysticks treating you? I was thinking of the same setup!
@@CaptinLongdong1 they are great. i use them for quite a while now. I even added a SEM (side extension module). Its fun, its cool and it seems very durable.
Also i think, dual stick (HOSAS) is the most recommended thing when it comes to fly a space craft.
@@DrPet80 Thanks mate!
Another alternative is a 3D mouse, which is basically a joystick with all 6dof on the same hand. It may be less competitive than hosas because everything is on the same hand plus it has lower precision, but it works quite nicely for casual flight. It also pairs well with a regular mouse for improved aiming.
That was a citizen years ago who used a dual CAD mouse setup. It was definitely interesting!
I think the halfway solution of the omni throttle deserves a mention. a stick with angle and removed spring for foward/backward behaves and feels exactly like a throttle with the addition of strafe axis.
Have you considered a moving joystick?
Awesome video! Great summary.
I can definitely recommend joysticks over mouse. The only issue is super-precise aiming for me. As in tracking a pixel-sized enemy that i moving diagonally.
I started with Thrustmaster T Flight X Hotas. It was great, but very soon it became clear that I need more accuracy. Plus I needed something sturdier. I went all in and bought Hotas Warthog. It was a huge step up, but soon I found myself lacking axes and controls on the throttle weren't exactly intuitive (except forward and back). So I got myself cheap T Flight Rudder Pedals from Thrustmaster to get some more axes. They were horrible and broke within a week. So I knew I had to go for quality. Precision, movement, durability. I chose MFG as they were the most praised back then. (Had to wait 3/4 year for them...). The setup was getting better and better and finally I replaced the Warthog throttle with T16000M. I am very happy with it. I might upgrade to something more expensive later on, but I find the setup "complete". I have enough control so that my flying is not limited by hardware, only by my skill.
A note why T16000M joystick is an excellent choice: It has magnetic tracking. Your deadzone won't degenerate because of overuse. Not as soon anyway. ;)
And last note: Seats. Although they do look great and and feel great and increase the immersion by bother level, make sure you have a keyboard and mouse handy. Especially if you are using VR as well. Getting out of the VR chair every time you need to use a keyboard or a mouse is quite a nightmare. So if you're going for a chair, do make sure you have easy and comfortable access to the keyboard and mouse.
2 VKB sticks as HOSAS, left one is with the z adapter. First time using such setup as of last week. Can attest - never going back to Kb+mouse for flying; it is not the same. BTW I have twist on right one for roll and strafe up/down on the left, no pedals but it is an option for some.
first long term use of this type of gameplay i had was Steel Battalion for Xbox and I've been fiending for a game that uses them. I'm sold on the idea now ty liked and subbed!
Great video. Especially appreciated the explanations of different control mappings.
This was a fantastic overview. I've been running dual T1600m in HOSAS and looking to upgrade. This was a big big help. Thanks RedLir
This video deserves an upgrade for the VKB STECS, which is finally out and did blow me away.
great timing with this video, I was juts getting into this game and was doing a lot of research on this topic, thanks for the insight :D
Welcome aboard!
Thanks for this video! I'm looking for a setup for Starfield and I had no idea that this whole world of various stick setups existed. A stick on the left and right hand sounds like the most immersive experience to me so I'm going to give that a try.
I do have a virpil hotas with pedals and i find it very hard to control my ship if i use the pedals for rolling.
On the other hand binding yaw to them feels more natural and has an easier learning curve.
Pedals are not meant for rolling imo.
I'm the exact opposite, but that's what great about having all these tools and options. There's something that works for everyone! Cheers!
Yeap, imo pedals are not suitable for roll and are a waste on a $200 peripheral.
I use mine like one would on a car. I find it much easier to match the speed of my opponent.
Try the toe brakes as forward / back strafe. Similar to a car, we drive every day. Dont use the center axis at all.
Warning - do NOT bind any 1 axis to more than 1 input.
Example - roll on both stick and pedals.
The game lags when switching between them.
@@lordfraybin I use toe brakes for strafe up/down.I find it more intuitive for landing and take off.
In conventional aircraft, the pedals control the rudder and therefore yaw.
Thanks for your video it helps me a lot I’m still new to SC and wanting to use sticks cheers mate
No problem 👍
Even if joysticks don't make you a PvP PGM, it really makes the experience more immersive and increases a bit the manoeuverability versus keyboard/mouse (personal feeling here). But what I love most is the pedals, that really improves the experience over just 2 joysticks.
Fantastic informative video! VERY well done. I have both LIKED and SUBSCRIBED. The quality and content of your video deserve it!
Much appreciated!
Having switched to roll on twist and seeing the benefit, I'm left struggling with yaw on X. Considering getting pedals now. Control systems are the biggest rabbit hole 😜
Can relate lol
Thanks for making this video, very informative and helpful for someone who has owned SC for years, but is only just about to jump in and start playing it
you are so joy to listen to about joysticks
Thanks, Jacob!
Liked and subscribed. Good content :) HOSAS with Virpil Alphas: LH L/R, Fwd/Back, twist is Up/Down. RH pitch, yaw, roll. Thinking about getting a set of pedals. Tried HOSAT with the CM2 and didn’t like it. Added a Button Panel #1 (also Virpil) for common binds that I didn’t need on a stick and love it.
Thanks for the sub!
Just got myself an x56 HOTAS setup for playing star citizen, war thunder, ac7
HOSAS AND multi quadrant throttle, peddles and trackIR.
Still have room for GameGlass.
What about a beer fridge?!
Thanks for the informative video. I run dual NXTs with the OMNI adapter on the left. Feels very natural. Cheers!
Using the right stick left right to yaw sounds like madness to someone coming from a long history of flight swimming.
Roll being left and right and either twist or pedals for yaw will make for a much easier transition for people used to that control style
Hosas is awesome, i cant stop flying. i cant remember when i did my last ground fps option
I remember that first feeling of grabbing the two sticks. It's awesome!
best guide ive seen so far
This was incredibly helpful, thank you so much for sharing!
I'm glad it was helpful!
I don't have this game currently but have been watching a lot of videos and thinking about it. Coming from flight sims for over 25 years, and being in the USAF for over 30 working on and knowing about aircraft...maybe space stuff might be different, but for flight sims and aircraft in general the left/right axis is roll and twist or rudder pedals are always yaw. It just seems strange to swap roll and yaw to me, but to each his own...lol.
It's a common remark. In SC ships have maneuvering thrusters that allow for 6DOF and don't follow your traditional atmospheric flight model. Pitch and Yaw have equal power where as in real flight, Roll and Pitch would be the primary 'aiming' axis since Yaw isn't useful for fine aiming. Roll is still important to the point I would recommend pedals long term, but Pitch and Yaw on the same stick creates a powerful aiming device especially in dog-fighting.
Of course the answer for you is to use what's comfortable to you, but if someone is approaching SC without any background in DCS, these are the configs I would recommend as there is no muscle memory.
Cheers!
Just to confirm - Yes Logitech's X56 has an anlogue mini-stick on the throttle (located at your thumb)
Thanks, Thor!
The Warthog throttle absolutely does have an analogue mini stick on the index finger in the same position as the T16000M placement. I wouldn't recommend the Warthog though, because it's made to replicate the real controls as closely as possible, the throttle isn't particularly ergonomic, and the buttons and switches on both stick and throttle are VERY heavy, which feels amazing at first, but for gaming just ultimately slows your control of the ship
For any of ppl wondering if they need one. In a nutshell, stick enhances the realism and that’s pretty much it. If you want to have it thinking it will benefit dogfight then the sad news is it won’t. In fact, if you aren’t somebody who plays dcs or any other flight simulator games it will be very hard to get use to or even backfire.
As someone who has many flight controls, due to flight games being my favourite as well as space games. I think roll would still be a twist function on my right stick despite me having it on the z axis when on ms 2020 for example. But also i fly with a yoke on that game. I have adapatable muscle memory plus it makes sense in my head to have roll as twist and cause ive always played space games with roll as twist if that makes sense.
Since i found out a couple of days ago that Virpil is shipping from Belaruse i might now switch to VKB after about a decade sporting my x52 pro that is now starting to show some wear. Still this is a beutiful setup though !
I swapped the the roll to the left for my preferences. I like to separate it from the pitch and yaw and then the strafe up\down has a rather large dead zone on the right stick since I don't use it much accept during landing take off.
I have: Thrustmaster Warthog throttle and stick and 2x cougar mfd button boxes + Logitech X52 Pro and rudder pedals. Not that I have any ground vehicles yet but am considering working in my Logitech G29 steering wheel and pedals. Ive played for a total of two days thus far so am not even close to having the keybinds worked out yet but at least Ive got a shipload of options. Yaw on a stick drives me nuts. Thats where roll belongs.
I guess that would be HOTTASSAMAMFD because i use a mouse too
HOSAS. VKB NXT. Game changing.
I remember thinking the same thing the first time I got my two T16000 almost 7 years ago now. What great options we have these days for dual stick setups!
Thanks for the review RedLir.
Personally I fly with dual sticks, however I prefer to fly like a traditional atmosphere aircraft. For example nose direction and orientation is right hand. Left hand is all things ship velocity related.
This helps me prevent bad habits with other titles that focus on atmosphere flying.
Thanks, Mike
Very understandable! Cheers!
I use roll on my left z axis, i found it much harder to aim if i had roll on my aim hand. Also those nxt glads are fucking fantastic for the money. Only pieces ive ever had to replace in 2 years was one spring
Went for a VKB Gladiator + TWCS combo
Great job man! Subscribed!
Awesome, thank you!
I went with chair mounted dual alpha Virpils. The setup was a bit to setup but wow. There is not comparison.
The dream!
Liked,Subed,Belled,Commented.
Any chance of some file downloads for the different setups for Star Citizen. I am new to this and it a bloody nightmare tiring to figurer it out.
Great Video Mate. It was well done.
I wish I had seen it about 2 weeks ago, I would of gone duel stick not the X56.
Well the good news is that you can always do both. Have a throttle off to the side for big ships and add a second stick for dual fun! Thanks!
Hey I just remembered there's a mouse with a thumbstick, by Asus I think. I might trying that one.
By the way this ship looks SICK!
Very alien, not my style, but still SICK!
As a real life pilot considering getting into this game, the idea of using my foot pedals to control roll and my stick to control yaw is breaking my brain!😅
Super informative! Thank you!
great summary thx
HOSAS is the best in Star Citizen
Price from high to low : Virpils -> VKB's -> TCA Airbus or T16000M -> any other common dual stick setup
Performance high to low: Virpils = VKB, both behave like scalpel to an axe compared to Thrustmaster sticks, are net superior
Virpil and VKB are pretty much the same as performance but Virpil is twice the price so it does not worth invest. Unless you are Terada 🤣
Throttle is useless in Star Citizen pretty much.
Mouse and keyboard favors aiming better though, but it's nothing compared to broken relative OP mouse as in Elite where it's 100% like an aim assist for impared 😁 And all mousers defeat HOTAS/HOSAS users easily cause rails are just point and shoot.
Oh and of course, pedals is a must for HOTAS/HOSAS setup so I need pedals now. I use VKB's
I would argue for swapping Roll and Yaw controls with Yaw being the the twisting action when using a HOSAS setup. It is a much more natural feel when controlling the orientation of the ship. IMO of course.
A lot of people feel that way, especially coming from atmospheric flight like DCS. The reason most of us recommend yaw on the X axis is due to how evenly matched yaw is to pitch in star citizen making it more of a primary aiming axis than you will find in most games.
The X axis on a stick is going to be more accurate than twist in general which is why it's prioritized there with the pitch on Y, creating an overall aiming device.
As with all things, everything becomes personal choice and you have to use what is best and most comfortable to you! Cheers!
I would love to see a review between the new winwing orion 2 HOTAS vs others. quality, how the stick feels etc etc :)
Hosas is literally THE WAY to go for spaceships.
In DCS/normal airplanes hotas is probably better though
I really want to buy dual Virpil constellation alphas…. But gotta decide if i want them $800 bad
Great Video buddy!!
Thanks!
good forward video ! thx
Glad you liked it!
I’m coming from just FPS games, aiming, sniping with 800DPI for years. I thought HOSAS is going to be great for space flight. But I’m starting to think HOSAM will feel
More intuitive and will keep my precise aim of mouse but I just wanna get rid of the absolute inputs of the keyboard. So I’m thinking start with 1 trustmaster T16000M, maybe get a second one later.
Great vid. Watched it about 12 times now. Just a side question.. ehere fid u get the swivel mounts from?
I, too, started with the T16000 HOTAS, and wore it out pretty quickly. I upgraded to a VKB gunfighter base with Kosmo grip for my right stick, and adapted the left handed Kosmo grip to VKB's Gladiator Mk2 base (turns it into a Gladiator K). I like the button options on the older Gladiator base over wheels on the NXT base, but either option (Gladiator K or NXT) would be a much better starting option than the T16000. The VKB sticks are 2x more expensive, but they are rebuildable if you wear them out, unlike the T16k. Plus, I think you can upgrade the NXT base (plastic gimbal) to a gunfighter base (metal gimbal) later should you so desire.
On a side note, where do I know you from? I haven't played in a while, but I used to be pretty active in Lucky 13. Weren't you one of Virtual Ace's cronies?
I would swap the roll and yaw controls with no petals make it more accurate to current aviation
I used Hotas to play ED but still haven't set mine up for SC.
Win wing is releasing new flight sticks this year they use almost the same system as the vkb but at a way lower price
Links to the joysticks would have been great.
Awesome video :) thanks !!! Love ur voice !!! I have 2 vkb gladiator pro with virpil pedals… but wish I had virpil sticks ;)
Thanks! I need to get a gladiator NXT for my Joystick museum!
I've always known the peddles to be yaw. Roll and pitch on the stick and yaw on the peddles.
In an atmospheric flight sim that would be the norm and probably hard to break away from if you're used to that world. SC is a 6DOF, yaw has equal weight with pitch for aiming the noise of the ship, where as in a traditional flight sim roll and pitch are used.
As always, use what is more comfortable for you. Cheers.
Am I strange that I use aircraft adjacent inputs for my gaming? I use: Right X is Roll. Right Y is Pitch. Right Rotation is Yaw. Left X is Strafe. Left Y is Throttle. Left Rotation is Vertical. I am trying to take the Yaw and Vertical to pedals with toe brakes, and it's taking a minute to lock it in to muscle memory.
WinWing is a very good pick as well
Video saved!
Good video 🙌🏻
How do you have your left stick set up, it look identical to your right stick but tiled somehow?
In that shot I have virpils z adapter attached which allows the stick to be held on an angle. VKB also sell similar attachments that I'm testing now
on hotas set up roll should be by moving the stick left and right and yaw should be with the twist or pedals surely?
I have a saitek x52pro which worked beautifullty with elite dangerous but I just can't get it to work or feel right in starcitizen.
Any good videos that will help with the set up of a thrustmaster joystick, pedals, and thrust?
thoughts on mkb but the kb being the wooting 60he?
I've not used one but it sounds interesting! I guess it would depend on how much accuracy you could get on the keys.
i'd sawp roll and yaw. twist to spin and right left to roll. its more natural
what setup was the one you used in the arrow demonstration
What about a HOSAK Setup (Stick and Keyboard). Use WASD for your forward, backward, left and right movements like in a standard fps. It's not as precise, but it might be a more budget friendly option.
Anyone tried that yet?
I don't think just a stick on the right hand buys you much in that case. A mouse is a very precise aiming device. May as well keep it super budget friendly at that point and just use KB/M.
Im wondering why you mentioned the warthog throttle but not the joystick?
We all had a warthog before other options came about. Point blank, the gimbal is terrible and will break down over time. It's an all plastic design that is prone to "sticktion" issues and over time develops play. The super hard center is also not ideal imho.
For that kind of money you're much better off putting it towards an all metal design from Virpil or VKB.
Why would you use the twist for anything but yaw? Also, using the pedals for roll is weird too. Don't think I could ever get used it. But I have a traditional flight sim background
SC is a bit different as yaw has the same power as pitch. Most sims, including ED, yaw is a bit limited so pitch / roll are the generally the primary aiming axis in those cases. Pitch and Yaw on the X/Y make an 'aim' stick basically for SC which is why you'll see a lot of pilots bound this way. Cheers!
Am I wrong? Don't the pedals usually effect the Yaw of a plane while in flight? why would those be bound to roll?
It's generally how people feel coming from DCS or real atmosphere flight backgrounds.
These recommendations are based on 6DOF and the ships having mav thrusters. Since yaw is also 1 to 1 with pitch, unlike atmospheric flight pitch and yaw on the right stick, create an aiming device.
You'll find most top-tier combat pilots in the game are configured this way for that reason.
Using what's comfortable for you will always be the right answer for you
Thanks for the comment!
liked, already subscribed, shared and sending bro hugs! ^^
Banana lord approval!!
What about combining a throttle with a mini stick with a mouse?
Sure! Use what's comfortable to you!
Why do people put the roll on the pedals and not the lateral axis of the stick? Maybe it’s because my job is a pilot, but i just cannot wrap my mind around pedals controlling anything other than yaw
Hi Joshua. I answer this question a lot but it's because the controls in SC is born from space flight and not atmospheric where pitch and rolling is much more powerful than yaw for aiming. The Yaw in SC has the same power as Pitch so it lives well on the same stick as they combine to create an aiming device. The same goes for strafes on the left stick.
I have the MCG Ultimate with the thrustmaster throttle. I like to dogfight and am thinking of moving to HOSAS. Is there a reason why you like the Virpil Alpha vs the MCG Ultimate? Im looking for which stick I should get for my left hand.
Honestly I own them all and backups of each ( I have a joystick problem lol) I actually ordered an extension this week to give the Ultimate another try but the MAIN reason for me has been the 0 center CAM that the warBRD has because I like really heavy tension of springs. When I use the GF MK3, I use 2x 50 springs on each axis, so their soft center has a very noticeable 'bump' which I'm not a fan of. We'll see how the extension changes that.
As for a left, SCG + Gunfighter 3 or an Alpha + Warbrd are decent options. The twist is significantly different between the two though so it depends on what you like. The Alpha has a longer throw but the twist is super smooth ball bearing. The SCG twist is more of a plastic on plastic spiral design that is a bit more hard center, but the stick has a MUCH shorter throw overall.
@@RedLir_Live thanks for the feedback.
I remember playing against you in star citizen a long time ago and you whipped my butt. My callsign was ADMRL.
I do notice the bumb on the gunfighter especially when moving the stick on a diagonal across the center. Even with the space cams it's not that great. Your experience with the warbird seems like there is no bump in the middle. Maybe I should try it out. I did want to stay in the vkb ecosystem since I already sank a lot of money into it.
How do you the omni throttle adapter for the left stick?
Sorry If I'm asking a lot of questions. But nowhere is really giving me a good comparison.
@@palazzolojoe The warBRD comes with a 0 center cam and they also sell a 0 center cosmocam (space) as a separate option. If you need to have 0 center on the left, then this is the only option that I know of. I've been asking VKB to make a true 0 center for years but no love yet.
The z adapter is bulky but cool, it changes the way force is applied to the stick. I also ordered one from VKB to test this week as well!
@@RedLir_Live will you be posting a review? I'd love to hear your feedback.
Roll is supposed to be left right on the stick like in a plane. The peddles are yaw.
Spaceships aren't planes though. They have 6DOF and maneuvering thrusters making yaw just as efficient as pitch for aiming the nose of the ship. Use what you're comfortable with though! Cheers!
try flying an aeroplane from watching this video lol
might notice that as you try to yaw right or left you will end upside down
Does anyone use a single flight stick like on airplanes? The 85x and freelancer have these types of steering as appose to the joysticks… does anyone use these instead? Just curious to know which one would be superior
I'm struggling. I want a HOTAS, both for a more real Terrapin feel and the fact I got Microsoft Flight Simulator. But I also have a Talon and Shrike that I love to fly, and I can't imagine how great it must feel to fly those with HOSAS to have full acrobatic control of those birds. I don't PvP, but I like to keep the option open, especially knowing PvP is almost always on. Any suggestions? I'm thinking a HOTAS with a mini-stick, but I'm not sure how immersive/good it feels to use a mini-stick for something as crucial as strafing & VTOL all the time, or how natural it feels in PvP/intense ship combat. Getting the vibe that the best flight experience for Star Citizen is HOSAS + pedals.
If my pc is below minimum specs shouldn't the game not run at all? Im new-ish to pc games...games that require 3070s that is. The game runs but I can't even leave the first spawn city cause either the elevators are empty voids that lead to smacking the ground or the train is invisible.
Masterpiece!
Thanks!
Im using mouse and keyboard, was very good in flying and dogfighting. I think joystick would be good and a bit of an advantage but I think you can get extremely good with mouse and keyboard and even compete with Hotas users (if you are very skilled). But the best mouse and keyboard player agains the best Joystick player would be the joystick player who will win more often.
Had an argument with a friends-friend, I made a bold claim that VIRPIL was the better set-up regarding sticks vs the logitech warthog. He stated that the logitech warthog was better since PC-gamer has them at nr: 1 and that the price was higher and therefor better than the VIRPILs.
By my count the VIRPIL are more expansive, however I dont regard the price as an indicator as per se equals better, maybe an indicator but the overall quality of a product is in the details.
Anyone out there that can give me some ammunition?
Yes
HOSAS all the way baby!!
Yes. Definitely.
Foot pedals are generally for yaw, not roll
In aeroplanes, yes. If you plan on being competitive in spaceship combat, you will be at a disadvantage . 6DOF spaceships have different abilities, especially when aiming vs planes
@@RedLir_Live Clearly planes are different, but they are also 6 DOF and I was not making a comparison to planes. My comment was in the context of space sims. The only real difference being linear strafe, which you use the other controls for.
you forgot the Logitech x52 and the pro version of it being a hotas all in 1
Do you recommend that setup?
gonna need a lot more than a joystick to make that money farm enjoyable
I have flown, both IRL and VR, the pedals are NEVER roll they're always YAW. Did you mix this up or did you really mean that you use the pedals to roll the air/spacecraft? I mean there are no rules, so do as you please... but it does fly in the face of traditional controls which you the body relates to quite naturally.
I personally use the Gladiator NXT HOSAS but I also have the Logitech X56 Throttle and Logitech Pedals which gives me the best of every world, though it takes up a little more room in the pit. In terms of Axis, I don't use the left yaw axis for anything, instead I use the thumb stick to control my vertical thrust which is more natural feeling.
It's a common question for those coming from DCS or real flight. Of course in the end it's whatever the player is comfortable but it's definitely on purpose. It's more about the ships not having rudders and using mav thrusters. This gives yaw 1 to 1 power with pitch making them primary aiming axis that live well together on the same stick as a pointing device. Roll is moved to either twist or pedals in some form generally ( some put roll on toe pedals even ).
@@RedLir_Live I've been playing ED for sometime as well, but never heard of this. You're right though, totally up to the pilot
ED does have an atmospheric type model in space where yaw is not useful so I can see people using a standard setup there.
@@RedLir_Live that's not true, try mining without raw or even combat. The mechanical nature of flight/draft is essentially the same for both games. I. Sure they vary a little but 6DOF is essential to both
Oh I have. ED is primarily a pitch and roll game where aiming is concerned. SC is much different when it comes to yaw responsiveness which is why most pilots move it to the X axis. Cheers!
What about stick and keyboard? HOKAS
I feel like all configurations could play a roll.
Some people use a keyboard, but this video was more about achieving fine analog control of the ship, which a keyboard doesn't really offer IMHO! Cheers!
@@RedLir_Live I understand it may not be better than the ones you talked about, but I do think it is still better than just mouse and keyboard.