I know alot of money and effort goes into these comparison videos but I just want to let you know you are doing these cars justice and its why you are the best in the business
I third this... even though I give them a bunch of crap for not including the Tesla M3P in these comparisons. Or on the SG / Country Club Autobahn track's fastest cars list. . 28:55 No Tesla's on the list. 😞 And the only EV, Lucid Air Sapphire, $250K, is at #3. Just behind the 911 GT3. 👍 FYI: The Tesla M3P is quicker than a BMW M3, and almost as quick as a 911 GT3 RS on the Top Gear Track. Search: model 3 performance lap times
These guys Prejudice against anything not American. Tbh engine wise the b58 truck engine block, is just as solid as the v8 on mustang and it is more affordable in terms of fuel and car value. Just saying who ever makes v8s anymore its just too old technology and not feasible at all, these guy make me feel like they’re polishing shit 😂.
This issue is a big red flag on the culture at Nissan and its future prospects i.e. its less than likelihood of surviving as a car manufacturer in the not too distant future
That fuel starving issue is just unnacceptable. That was clearly something they knew was an issue, probably relatively easy to fix, and they decided to ship it anyways. Sad state of affairs at Nissan -signed former fanboy lol
In the real world, this means nothing. An overwhelming number of buyers of this car will never trsck it so fuel starvation is moot. The Z would be a better car for everyday use for the average owner.
@@housepianist those owners are still going to deal with the transmission and paint issues that have already put the Z on stop sale these past couple years. It's just a sad amount of issues that have piled up with the release of this car.
@@housepianistthat's still not how to build a sports car. You're OK'ing mediocrity. Also, a large majority of the people may not drive their cars on track but those buyers who are spending money on a up trim sports car absolutely care when other enthusiasts call their car trash because of this fuel cut issue.
I have a supra. It also has fuel starve issues when you give it some grippy tires and fuel goes below 1/2 tank. Luckily there is a fix with aftermarket
"to appeal to Zoomers, because they have $70,000 to spend on a mustang"- greatest comment to sum up the s650 platform. I'm 31 and worked my ass off to afford a used gt350 a few years ago as a dream come true. I understand its not 2005 anymore... but spending what was formerly M5 money on a non-shelby mustang blows my mind. Inflation is true, but wages are not keeping up with CPI. So even with considering inflation.. no idea when they'd think Zoomers would be able to afford one of these? I understand if Ford just wanted to do something new and draw Gen Z to the ford brand.... but really they should appeal to millennials as we would be the only ones to possibly afford one of these for at least the next 5-10 years.
I don’t think ford did it for the Zoomers to buy them, Ford did it so the Zoomers promote them. Ton of them in my area I’ve talked to are obsessed with the S650 and they say they’d never buy it. Seems to me it’s all about the TikTok views and buzz instead of actual sales.
If cars stop being fun and the reliable cars fade away to time, and EVs take over, I’m genuinely considering moving to Europe even if I have to go broke. Walkable cities and reducing car dependency haven’t been more important with cars going to crap.
Jack has been an awesome addition. I appreciate his passion and perspective. I also feel that the editing/cinematography has improved with time.@@REVECRIT
Honestly, all the factors working against the Z kind of exemplies what made it the poor man's corvette back in the day. It was an every eay sports car that wasn't neccisarily meant to go toe-to-toe with the big dogs; its simply a fun car at a more competitve price. The only problem now is, the price isnt so competitive, and you can't find new Z's anywhere especcially without paying insane mark-ups.
@kylev.1163: Yeah. I don't know all the background accounting numbers, but it seems like a lot of these makers are sabotaging new compact sports cars with these prices. Do people want fun little sports cars? YES! Are logical people willing to justify paying $60k+ for one? Not many. They're no longer a poor man's anything. They're strictly for the well-off at this point. I think they would have so many more sells if they dropped the msrp around $10 on each model. But again...I don't know if that would mean they're selling them at a loss or not.
You’d be silly to just not get a 370. You can’t say it’s slower then the competition when the new one is too. Like the other guy said if it’s already gonna be less impressive then then competition just get the older and proven car for way less. TLDR: Over Msrp to still be the worst on the block is crazy, just get the old car which is like 70% the same car.
@@TeensierPythontrue but with that logic, no one would buy any of these three cars and everyone would buy base vettes. Sometimes, it’s not about the lowest price.
@@housepianist Yep pretty much the reasoning behind any car, an older one can be had for cheaper and still offer pretty much what the new one does. What gets me is that the new Z is so much better looking than the porky BBW 350 and 370. Just took the best parts of all the Zs to date and made a nostalgic masterpiece. Well except that front grill, I understand cooling needs and all but there had to be a better way to do it. It does look better in black and dark blue though for obvious reasons.
My pick has to be the Supra. The $15-$20k you save relative to the mustang will get you the mods that will make it even better. I know that’s not in the spirit of direct comparison; the mustang is the better car off the floor. But the B58 has huge capacity for big power for not a lot of work/money. Quality coil-overs, and some wider wheels and tires would take it where it needs to be. Being the lightest is a huge advantage
@@ssj_junior Taking the comparison to the used market of the past generation is totally pointless here. The whole point of this video is the current market for fun, new cars, and it's relative inflation. If you're going to bring up the used market, I can say ill pick up a miata, or E55 AMG and throw $50k at it to compete with these lol. There's no line you can draw at that point. But scooping up a Coyote for $35k-ish isnt a bad buy at all.
@ZZPxFTW But even when the S550 is was new the Supras price dwarfed the mustangs. Me personally I like American muscle and for the price and faster and more power I would love to have a mustang. But if you like the Supra I don’t blame you I love the MK5 and it’s by far my favorite Toyota they have made in years despite people calling it a bmw lol.
I bought a Supra for $53K new and spent 10K on modifications! I am still well under the price of these cars. It is a fantastic platform to start with and can be a beast.
Just saying that a $45K Camaro SS 1LE beats the Supra in bang for the buck performance stock vs stock by a high margin. I guess it would be interesting to compare if you included mods. Perhaps the Supra might provide more bang for the buck with mods due to the turbo, but it’s pretty easy to mod a small block Chevy too.
@@HumbleHonkingEnthusiast It won't make a difference. At all. People always claim the last of some random feature will make cars more valuable but rarely does that ever happen.
NISMO: Were going to make this car auto only so it is faster on track. ~gets beaten by every manual sports car in it's price range on track ~engine looses power to heat soak the quickest ~brakes still overheat (which is the reason C&D stopped tracking Z's way back in 2015) ~fuel starvation with half a tank of gas This is a well balanced car that should be priced at $50k with a manual. (Note the Z perf has no right to be priced at $50k, as it's got about $2k in value above the base).
The Z isn't even worth it in performance spec imo, get the base and change your own brakes/LSD. Save 10k lmao I like how the FM platform drives, my g35 was one of the best balanced and fun street cars I ever had. I just can't get over the price on the new Z for what amounts to another 350z refresh
@@rosgoncharuk2403Nissan is broke from low sales of their entire lineup of cars in general and couldn’t afford good R&D for the Z. They can’t even afford to make the R36. It’s insane how much reputation and CVTs can destroy a company. They’re going down a financial black hole. They need to ditch JATCO NOW so they can earn more money from their bestsellers not having CVTs. This will allow them to have enough R&D to make a better Z (if they even make another generation at this point, sales are so low that they’ll probably discontinue the Z sadly) and make the R36. Nissan’s biggest problem is their CVTs. And it’s showing through the new Z… which sadly could be the last if its low sales keep up. And if the Z does continue, it would probably be cheaper to introduce it as an EV in the next few years if they’re already too far down the EV-market preparation scam-hole. Same for the R36, if we’re NOT lucky. They might end up like Mitsubishi in a decade if they’re aren’t careful enough. Nissan has another chance if they ditch CVTs in all of their cars and JATCO. They don’t have much time left though. Emission regulations, “Full-EV-Promise-By-203X”, and money spent on EV development could either make or break a good Z or even an ICE R36 from happening. NISSAN! F JATCO AND DITCH CVTS!!!!
I'm surprised that the Nismo Z is only an automatic. Yet the gentleman that put down laps said it was the most rewarding to drive. I am always impressed with how a slower car is often the more enjoyable experience.
Like the old saying goes: “Slow car fast is better than fast car slow” Even though 400+ HP ain't exactly slow, but it's relative to the class of cars being discussed on the video.
@@WarriorsPhoto I gotta be honest, I'm a sucker for the Dark Horse; even if I can't afford one. It's the least compromised out of the 3 when it comes to livability. Plus it's also the one that you can do more things that would land you in jail.
@@fortheloveofnoise They are both fun, I had a Beat for a while (videos in my channel) and I miss it a lot, though the Cappuccino is better in most objective ways, and much easier to daily drive or take on a long trip.
I mean their comments support my experience. My Mach 1 is faster than the supra, NOLA Motorsports park, faster sweeping track. Also lightning lap shows Mach 1 is significantly faster than the supra around VIR. So basically supra is better handling on tight tracks, mustang on faster corners. So to say it's faster isn't totally true, but you couldn't really say the mustang is faster either.
@@jz7551 yeah can see that being true do to the added down force that comes equiped from factory. The supra doesn't really have any down force, in fact they mentioned it has lift. Its not really a track focused car like the dark horse is or they what have used a base gt lol
Huge fan of the Z platform, but it's so disappointing to see it get destroyed by all of its rivals. I'm happy that in 2023, we still have a Z. It looks fantastic it's like nissan is not even putting up a fight. It's like watching your favorite player get old and forced to retire
Very true, I had a lot of hope for the new Z and Nismo but now I’m just happy they made a new one. That Supra just punches way above its weight, and it’s not even a track variant like the others, scary potential.
@@emonoe Specs mean little. The automatic is goofy. It's all about driving experience. The Mustang is very unappealing to me, the Supra is just BMW. So the Nissan for me. I finally saw one in life this summer and it looks much better in person.
What’s frustrating is that Nissan has the skill and potential to have made a Z that leaves all its competitors in the dust. I agree that it feels that Nissan isn’t even trying at this point. I get the feeling that the Z’s days are numbered.
The conflict within Jack of the VEEE8 MOTOR vs the B58 was intense. Well done again. These comparison videos are not easy and you guys did a great job figuring out and communicating the strength and weaknesses of each car.
I love how the center console shot @ 6:05 shows Tokyo Drift playing. Whether this is a coincidence or not, I do not know. Edit: The Dark Horse shows Dark Horse playing @ 2:20 AND the Supra shows Gas Gas Gas @ 7:23. This is NOT a coincidence!
I’ve driven a C8 Z51 and own a GT350. The C8 is significantly faster and more capable. Better power to weight, faster transmission, much better traction with the weight over the rear wheels. I prefer the character of my GT350 more, but it and the dark horse that replaces it don’t compete against the C8. The GT500 goes against the C8
Supra MT is my choice all day. Better look in my opinion and more value for the money. Also, with a femto unlock, tune and FBO, the supra becomes a whole different beast for not too much money for the ROI.
@mike_w_21 it is a tiny car but that's what makes it so nimble and light. Power to weight ratio is important. Visibility isn't the best but ain't unbearable. It's definitely not for everyone
imagine as a gen Z signing on the dotted line for a car payment > $1000/month. After insurance and maintenance, it's like paying for a house. It really feels like these manufacturers are only targeting the california bay area tech bros with no other hobbies or responsibilities.
Savings for a large down payment is the way, but once you get past 50k just lease it. This is why Miata is always the answer, a new one is actually pretty affordable.
You see, a Ford executive saw the prices houses are going for now and realized they’re under charging the youth because they all must be buying homes about now, right? Right?
Your generation really needs to start seeing life as an RPG, its not all going to come your way in a year. You gotta level up to shit. It might take you to age 40 to get a Dark Horse/Supra tier vehicle there is no shame in that, you still got 30 years or so to live after that! Hearing your gen demanding 100K starting is getting embarrassing all that Reddit you read about careers is just BS.
In large parts of the world, the only motor vehicles most people can afford are a Honda Wave or Yamaha Sirius scooter. E.g., in Vietnam, where foreign cars like these are taxed at over 100% so average people won't even dream of owning them. Expecting vehicles to be affordable seems to be a uniquely USA phenomena?!
Z is such a mixed bag: I appreciate it being 100% Nissan, but on the other hand it is so phoned in and overpriced that I'm glad that it failed. But then they are going to cancel it and make that as an excuse... Damn you, Nissan!
I don't know how it's overpriced, it's cheaper than the mustang, but more than the Supra. Yet this is the top end Nismo model, it's more exclusive, and comes with lots of upgrades from bigger brakes to Recaro seats. It's priced the same as the 45th anniversary Supra which doesn't even have much over a standard Supra.
How is the anniversary Supra relevant when this tested version is still cheaper, faster, better to mod, better engine note, and better interior than the tested Z?
@@zachary5476 it's overpriced because it brings nothing new - it's an old parts bin Nissan that could've easily been 15% cheaper in each trim, boosting it's appeal. Sales numbers don't lie. Nismo barely makes it what the performance package should've been, yet, as you said, it's more "exclusive", so why should one go for "more exclusive" to get what it should've been from the get go? Why exclusive Nissan is worse than regular i6 Supra? Keep that justification to yourself, or better - put your money where your mouth is.
Wow, I really like this channel. Definitely made for the enthusiast backed with statistical data. Great work gentleman, creating these videos is not easy.
Great comparison video. Appreciate the effort to keep things equal. Also, really liked that you put them all on the Dyno first to get hardline numbers since there’s so many variables on the track.
I must say I've been watching Savagegeese for almost a decade and I thank you Mark and Jack for your informative videos. Thanks to you two, I bought a Neptune Blue Toyota GR86 and I've never been happier with a car. You guys keep doing what you're doing because, it's great!
Get a SS 1LE in one of these track tests! I love how good of job you guys do with putting the cars on the same tires with a racing driver to keep them even. A true head-to-head.
@@voodoodiecast they are being made until the end of the year. And even besides the point, they offer the best track performance for the money to date. What better benchmark to test new models?
@@scottw2140 again there’s nothing new about it. Nobody’s buying it cause they compromise alot for performance. Only a few go to a track to enjoy the camaro’s specialty while most are for street use which many didn’t enjoyed the impractical camaro.
Excellent comparison. I will say that my tuned 2020 Supra on sticky tires suffers from bad fuel starve on track as well. It’s especially compounded with aero, but man it’s a quick car that needs quick reflexes to drive quickly. It’s not too forgiving. The Mustang is by far the most emotional and best daily. Shame about the price though.
The Z's driving compliments are accurate. I drive a 2012 Altima, 270-hp 3.5-liter V-6, and it's equally amazing. Joking aside, thanks for the amazing video guys this was a great comparison!
Hey, are you the guy who passed me on the right via the exit ramp when I was stuck behind a truck in the right hand lane on I90? If so, kudos for a baller move!
Not surprised by the lap numbers, the Supra really aged well despite not being the newest car. Being lightweight really helped. The Mustang is way too heavy, no reason it should weigh 2 tons. The Z seems like it would be the most fun..... If it had a manual. It would save some weight too.
How is the supra not the "newer" car? Z is just a 370z chassis, which in turn is an upgraded 350z, which again in turn was designed late 90s compared to early 2010s to the Supra.
ND2 Miata is amazing. Eff modern cars and their billion horsepower that you can’t even remotely use on the street. Not to mention consumables for something like the dark horse are going to be brutal….Gas isn’t cheap anymore, the tires are huge, and brakes are enormous as well. I owned a 19 SS 1LE and eventually went to a 2020 ND2 Club BBR pack While the SS 1LE was incredible, the Miata is more fun on the street (safely) and a hell of a lot cheaper to daily. Most fun car I’ve owned and I never get tired of it. It’s not perfect but it’s the best sports car on sale for under $60k in terms of fun IMO
I would love to see you guys review the Camaro SS with the LE package. I believe that car is amazing it might not be as fast as the dark horse but it’s truly special
The SS 1LE handles much better than the Dark Horse, so it would just depend on the track. I suspect on this tight track they used the Camaro would win. If you are talking straight line stuff, the Mustang wins…but you could buy a ZL1 for the same money as a Dark Horse if you care about that.
On Throttle House they discounted the Dark House solely for its numb steering, said the Camaros was far better. Surprised this test never mentioned it.
Apparently Dark Horse has one of stickiest tires in the market for track use. Better comparison would be running all the cars with the same tires for more accurate results!
@@ACommenterOnTH-camlol the 2JZ block doesn’t hold that 😂 And who cares, aluminum blocks are less weight and is the reason why this car handles so well. The original Supra was a pig.
Such an underrated comment at 20:20 about intake temperatures. I swear most turbo sports cars are down 25%+ horsepower on hot days once the heat soak sets in. Yet another avenue I wish car reviewers would explore
Insane value for price, insane lap time, fun unique drive style, extremely reliable and lightweight… but the overpriced 2 ton dark horse wins 🤔 Btw these arent my opinions, these are all things they themselves said in this video. Seems like there’s some bias here
@@davepaturno4290c8 is the most reliable sports car from a long shot.. It has become the most reliable sports car year after year. Have you seen anyone complaining about the c8 reliability..
Every time I see the new Z in a video I'm ready to be disappointed, unfortunately. This is coming from someone who has owned a 350 and 370. I think I'd honestly rather just keep my 370 and mod it than "upgrade" to the new one.
You guys are absolutely the best you bring a level of knowledge, thorough, detailed reviews, and a sense of humor I totally get. Also, you have great production values in your videos with the music and videography top notch guys
Great Job Mark and Jack, I will always support you on the highest tier on Patreon. Everyone give this a watch and a thumbs up. No one does car reviews and comparisons like Mark and Jack. This was a perfect comparison and you did not leave any details out. I love these type of comparisons because, I own Japanese cars and big American cars, so I am a fan of both. Very disappointed the Nissan Engineers and Nismo team screwed up not addressing the fuel delivery on the Nismo, should have really addressed that. I thought the Nismo Z would really give the Mustang a good run on track. I Love Nissan Z's and Ford Mustang's, The Supra I can not get into, not just because of the looks and tight interior, but still bothers me that it is not truly a Toyota design and engineered car. Anyway, great job, Keep these great videos coming. As Jack would say, Long Live The Mustang's "5 Liters of Freedom". I Hope Nissan fixes this Fuel Starvation issue already, also Thank you for always putting the cars on the lift, so detailed and well done.
So if a track focused GRMN Supra was ever produced that had better suspension, better brakes, better aero just like the Nismo and Ford. We should expect even better results. ;)
Was noticed that toy was testing a more track focused mk5 in the UK recently with differnt tires,bigger brakes,and a new wing but no say in a power bump. So more or less they're Def getting ready to release a track version before the frmn version comes out.
It's already so twitchy and unstable I think that's a recipe for disaster. A real track version should be toned down more than the existing street version.
@@elenchusthe track version which is the GRMN is coming with 500hp according to some reports and a much revised suspension. if that's actually true, then none of this cars here will be it's competitors, it will literally be dragging performance with the likes of the GTR and nsx
When the factory warranty ends on these, unless I was building a 1000+ hp car I would want the Supra. So easy to modify and have it still be reliable transportation
Mustang will probably be the cheapest. Coyote engines easily get 150k miles plus if maintained properly. There are plenty of parts out there and the engine is easier to work on. As much as I love the supra, you will pay bmw prices for parts and maintenance.
@@ADUSN there's plenty of dudes running 120k+ without issue. The highest I'm aware of on a Supra is 186k. One of the 120k mile owners has been at 600whp for 90% of those miles. The B58 is showing to be solid. Age still remains a factor we haven't seen though.
This one shot with 3 cars going around the corner with one of them going in reverse!!!!! You guys. Thank you! @12:04 That’s the quality cinematography I’ve come to expect!
Favorite part is Jack telling Mark that he can’t hear him over his V8 haha. Just amazing. As a former 350Z and 370Z owner, the fuel starvation issue was present in those vehicles so to essentially not address an issue dating back to 2003 just shows how lazy Nissan is. Dark Horse price tag is jaw dropping no matter how many times I see it. The price tags on the Aniston and Dark Horse is insulting to enthusiasts
Some marketing executive at FoMoCo calculated the maximum price they could put on it based on pricing sensitivity and current economic trends, thats what happened. This car isnt going to grow or even maintain the number of performance car enthusiasts that choose Ford today and going forward
Agreed. With a pro driver on this test track I think the Camaro will win. On a faster track, the Dark Horse has the advantage. Get a Camaro SS 1LE for under $50K while you can! I guess dealers are marking them a lot at the moment, so that might not be possible any more. The Camaro offers way more bang for the buck.
Would love to see y'all do a comparison of the GT350 (maybe the R, but I think it's more apples to apples to use non-R GT350) vs Mach1 vs Dark Horse. Can use my GT350 if needed!
Yes this would be great. In my experience, I'm a crap driver, the Mach 1 is faster than the gt350, marginally so and basically the same. I think if you are a good driver a gt350 would be faster, or maybe with autoblip mod. You would be surprised how much this helps not having to heal toe and get a perfect rev Mach every time. Also Mach 1 is much more forgiving of being a little low of the power band where the GT350 falls on it's face.
@@TheJeep1967 the GTD is like 300K it's not even in the same class. Not to mention basically nobody will have one. But I'm always up for a video of the GTD.
Another great video. I love the candor, the detailed analysis and the inclusion of the value proposition. BTW that rolling shot of the front end of the Nismo on track @ 4:20 is cinema-quality film making. Beautiful stuff. You guys continue to outdo yourselves in the level of devotion you pour into these videos.
I have a GR Supra and I agree with the feel of the stock suspension on track I did not like it. I updated the suspension with Springs, Sway Bars and camber plates and with a good alignment it changed the whole feel of the the car. Its a more direct feel and handles amazing now. All the Supra needs is tweaks to the suspension.
Awesome test. Those tires on the Dark Horse looked trashed (@3:30) !! Looked like a lot of fun to be with though. I wonder if the Mustang Dark Horse (besides having the Tremec gearbox) is incrementally more "worth it" then just getting a GT.
Congrats on another great comparison review guys! God it pains me to see what they did to the Nismo Z. Such a promising car.. Double wishbone, tried and true old school tech, classic Nissan Z looks, all that effort in better suspension/aero/brakes etc. And they let it all down with a subpar trans and a unacceptable fueling issue. Damn Nissan be breaking my heart here. Not making this car available with a manual will forever be Nissan's biggest mistake of this generation of Z car.
Only silver lining is Nissan engineers said if there is enough of an outcry they will make a h shift Nismo, and it seems like the outcry is loud and clear. Seeing as how the Z33/34 and GT-Rs improved so much under the sheet metal over the years, I'm sure Nissan/Nismo will correct the complaints about the Nismo Z. The first pancake is always the worst! Now if only we can get them to make compelling commuting appliances! I want the RZ34 to succeed, the driving experience with the track oriented Nismo bushings says there's nothing wrong with that tried and true chassis.
That's very interesting! I don't like any of them that much. They are fast but who cares about that, most modern sportscars (or performance EVs) are fast. I would rather a used Lotus Evora... I still think the Shelby GT350 looks better and sounds better and seems like a more appealing package than this Dark Horse too.
Keep up your excellent work! Great expertise. And give us enough easter eggs in your videos for the people to discover in the comments. So many of them hidden in this video. I appreciate it. Thank you, savagegeese.
Still extremely enjoying my 2023 brz 6mt. Even if I could realistically afford one of these 3; I don't believe the 2x cost difference vs the brz would equate to 2x my happiness if anything it would be detrimental in regards to cost of fuel economy/maintenance/depreciation and truly pedestal a car that would be nerve racking and not worth it.
I have a 2020 Supra and a 2023 GR86. I enjoy the 86 just as much, if not more than the Supra. It's much cheaper to run and its capabilities are easier to access because the limits are lower. I prefer driving it on track as well because driving a slow car fast is more fun. It's more predictable at the limit and there's less instant rotation. You're not missing out by having the BRZ one bit.
@@revmatchtv Exactly! So many factors go into ride enjoyability. I have a 2023 2.0 supra and I enjoy being able to explore it's limits on regular roads without hurting myself. The smaller engine makes it handle like a front mid engine car and the b48 still has a good amount of low end torque and mid range power so it works great for day to day driving and fills a nice midpoint between the big boy supra and the naturally aspirated gr86
And the DH is going to cost insane money to run on track at its weight, it's all out of proportion to what it is and it's initial cost just like the S550 PP2. I hope Toyota puts the Turbo-3 in the 86, I'd buy one if it didn't have a Subaru motor.
@@fortheloveofnoise There are people with 100k + miles on the gen 2 86 platform already. I have an accelerated maintenance cycle and I send it on track frequently. FYI a reman FA24 engine is around $10K. Not the end of the world if I blow it up, but I’m not overly concerned.
I love my 10r 5.0 coming up on 4 years and 37k. The seat shakes at the drive thru. It makes other drivers act and drive funny. Sometimes, people just wanna see you go. They know. We all know. 🐎 Is 🏆. You buy a Z and Supra for the nameplate and nostalgia. 🐎 Is bona fide the others are not IMHO.
I know alot of money and effort goes into these comparison videos but I just want to let you know you are doing these cars justice and its why you are the best in the business
I second this
I third this... even though I give them a bunch of crap for not including the Tesla M3P in these comparisons. Or on the SG / Country Club Autobahn track's fastest cars list.
.
28:55 No Tesla's on the list.
😞
And the only EV, Lucid Air Sapphire, $250K, is at #3. Just behind the 911 GT3.
👍
FYI: The Tesla M3P is quicker than a BMW M3, and almost as quick as a 911 GT3 RS on the Top Gear Track.
Search: model 3 performance lap times
Money is not the issue bias is.
Hagerty is a million times better than these guys
These guys Prejudice against anything not American. Tbh engine wise the b58 truck engine block, is just as solid as the v8 on mustang and it is more affordable in terms of fuel and car value. Just saying who ever makes v8s anymore its just too old technology and not feasible at all, these guy make me feel like they’re polishing shit 😂.
The old Z's (350/370) also have significant fuel starvation issues. That blows my mind that in 2023 they weren't able to rectify that.
truly baffling
This issue is a big red flag on the culture at Nissan and its future prospects i.e. its less than likelihood of surviving as a car manufacturer in the not too distant future
@@the4nerI see what you did there, unless the pun wasn't intentional😅
@@the4ner ba dum tsh
@@the4nerAlright, get in the suitcase, we're sending you to Ghosn.
lmao Jack yelling at the B58 at the end got me good
That fuel starving issue is just unnacceptable. That was clearly something they knew was an issue, probably relatively easy to fix, and they decided to ship it anyways. Sad state of affairs at Nissan -signed former fanboy lol
The Chrysler of Japanese cars. 😄
In the real world, this means nothing. An overwhelming number of buyers of this car will never trsck it so fuel starvation is moot. The Z would be a better car for everyday use for the average owner.
@@housepianist those owners are still going to deal with the transmission and paint issues that have already put the Z on stop sale these past couple years. It's just a sad amount of issues that have piled up with the release of this car.
@@housepianistthat's still not how to build a sports car. You're OK'ing mediocrity. Also, a large majority of the people may not drive their cars on track but those buyers who are spending money on a up trim sports car absolutely care when other enthusiasts call their car trash because of this fuel cut issue.
I have a supra. It also has fuel starve issues when you give it some grippy tires and fuel goes below 1/2 tank. Luckily there is a fix with aftermarket
"to appeal to Zoomers, because they have $70,000 to spend on a mustang"- greatest comment to sum up the s650 platform. I'm 31 and worked my ass off to afford a used gt350 a few years ago as a dream come true. I understand its not 2005 anymore... but spending what was formerly M5 money on a non-shelby mustang blows my mind. Inflation is true, but wages are not keeping up with CPI. So even with considering inflation.. no idea when they'd think Zoomers would be able to afford one of these? I understand if Ford just wanted to do something new and draw Gen Z to the ford brand.... but really they should appeal to millennials as we would be the only ones to possibly afford one of these for at least the next 5-10 years.
Wow. You got one at 31. I’m 41 and still driving a fiesta.
And M5 is same money as a 911,
times have changed. for worse..
I don’t think ford did it for the Zoomers to buy them, Ford did it so the Zoomers promote them. Ton of them in my area I’ve talked to are obsessed with the S650 and they say they’d never buy it. Seems to me it’s all about the TikTok views and buzz instead of actual sales.
I feel the same way I am 50 and it took me forever to save up to Buy a Used 2017 S550 GT.. Just got her, th-cam.com/video/tPXMb4nfGPE/w-d-xo.html
If cars stop being fun and the reliable cars fade away to time, and EVs take over, I’m genuinely considering moving to Europe even if I have to go broke. Walkable cities and reducing car dependency haven’t been more important with cars going to crap.
The amount of professionalism in your videos recently blows me away. You guys are THE PLACE I get my car knowledge from. Thank you Gents.
WRONG CHANNEL LOL
They’ve been like this since day one
Well said
they're gems
Jack has been an awesome addition. I appreciate his passion and perspective. I also feel that the editing/cinematography has improved with time.@@REVECRIT
Honestly, all the factors working against the Z kind of exemplies what made it the poor man's corvette back in the day. It was an every eay sports car that wasn't neccisarily meant to go toe-to-toe with the big dogs; its simply a fun car at a more competitve price.
The only problem now is, the price isnt so competitive, and you can't find new Z's anywhere especcially without paying insane mark-ups.
It’s crazy when you can get a base model mid-engine corvette for the same price.
@kylev.1163: Yeah. I don't know all the background accounting numbers, but it seems like a lot of these makers are sabotaging new compact sports cars with these prices. Do people want fun little sports cars? YES! Are logical people willing to justify paying $60k+ for one? Not many. They're no longer a poor man's anything. They're strictly for the well-off at this point.
I think they would have so many more sells if they dropped the msrp around $10 on each model. But again...I don't know if that would mean they're selling them at a loss or not.
You’d be silly to just not get a 370. You can’t say it’s slower then the competition when the new one is too. Like the other guy said if it’s already gonna be less impressive then then competition just get the older and proven car for way less.
TLDR: Over Msrp to still be the worst on the block is crazy, just get the old car which is like 70% the same car.
@@TeensierPythontrue but with that logic, no one would buy any of these three cars and everyone would buy base vettes. Sometimes, it’s not about the lowest price.
@@housepianist Yep pretty much the reasoning behind any car, an older one can be had for cheaper and still offer pretty much what the new one does. What gets me is that the new Z is so much better looking than the porky BBW 350 and 370. Just took the best parts of all the Zs to date and made a nostalgic masterpiece. Well except that front grill, I understand cooling needs and all but there had to be a better way to do it. It does look better in black and dark blue though for obvious reasons.
Favorite shot of the entire episode is at 12:04 when the Supra is driving in reverse and the dark horse and Nismo are forward facing 😂 YES! Love it!
Wow i didnt even notice that 😂
Glad I wasn't the only one to notice that 😂
Noticed this too! 👏
Yeah I had to play it back a few times to make sure I wasn’t crazy
Came into comments to see if anyone else noticed lol.
My pick has to be the Supra. The $15-$20k you save relative to the mustang will get you the mods that will make it even better. I know that’s not in the spirit of direct comparison; the mustang is the better car off the floor. But the B58 has huge capacity for big power for not a lot of work/money. Quality coil-overs, and some wider wheels and tires would take it where it needs to be. Being the lightest is a huge advantage
You could also get a used s550 for 34k
@@ssj_junior Taking the comparison to the used market of the past generation is totally pointless here. The whole point of this video is the current market for fun, new cars, and it's relative inflation. If you're going to bring up the used market, I can say ill pick up a miata, or E55 AMG and throw $50k at it to compete with these lol. There's no line you can draw at that point. But scooping up a Coyote for $35k-ish isnt a bad buy at all.
@ZZPxFTW But even when the S550 is was new the Supras price dwarfed the mustangs. Me personally I like American muscle and for the price and faster and more power I would love to have a mustang. But if you like the Supra I don’t blame you I love the MK5 and it’s by far my favorite Toyota they have made in years despite people calling it a bmw lol.
Heck with the 20k saved you could afford huge anime character decals and a body kit for your new Supra.
@@beforeyourimmigrants8471 You know when someone tries to make a joke thats so unoriginal its just not even that funny....
I bought a Supra for $53K new and spent 10K on modifications! I am still well under the price of these cars. It is a fantastic platform to start with and can be a beast.
Just saying that a $45K Camaro SS 1LE beats the Supra in bang for the buck performance stock vs stock by a high margin. I guess it would be interesting to compare if you included mods. Perhaps the Supra might provide more bang for the buck with mods due to the turbo, but it’s pretty easy to mod a small block Chevy too.
@@GrimSRT8agreed. My brother has a nice SS and its a beast right out the factory.
53 k dont believe it
MSRP back then was only $56.
I'd love to have a GT350 before this refresh. Not a fan of having a screen for my gauge cluster.
Those models without screens are gonna be worth mad money one day
objectively worse without screen
@@williamheard8496Manuals are objectively worse too but we still like them.
I like the digital dash from the s550. GT350 with that dash would be nice.
@@HumbleHonkingEnthusiast It won't make a difference. At all. People always claim the last of some random feature will make cars more valuable but rarely does that ever happen.
NISMO: Were going to make this car auto only so it is faster on track.
~gets beaten by every manual sports car in it's price range on track
~engine looses power to heat soak the quickest
~brakes still overheat (which is the reason C&D stopped tracking Z's way back in 2015)
~fuel starvation with half a tank of gas
This is a well balanced car that should be priced at $50k with a manual. (Note the Z perf has no right to be priced at $50k, as it's got about $2k in value above the base).
The Z isn't even worth it in performance spec imo, get the base and change your own brakes/LSD. Save 10k lmao
I like how the FM platform drives, my g35 was one of the best balanced and fun street cars I ever had. I just can't get over the price on the new Z for what amounts to another 350z refresh
Parts bin Nissan never fails to disappoint. Sales proportional to effort put.
@@rosgoncharuk2403Nissan is broke from low sales of their entire lineup of cars in general and couldn’t afford good R&D for the Z. They can’t even afford to make the R36. It’s insane how much reputation and CVTs can destroy a company.
They’re going down a financial black hole. They need to ditch JATCO NOW so they can earn more money from their bestsellers not having CVTs. This will allow them to have enough R&D to make a better Z (if they even make another generation at this point, sales are so low that they’ll probably discontinue the Z sadly) and make the R36.
Nissan’s biggest problem is their CVTs. And it’s showing through the new Z… which sadly could be the last if its low sales keep up.
And if the Z does continue, it would probably be cheaper to introduce it as an EV in the next few years if they’re already too far down the EV-market preparation scam-hole. Same for the R36, if we’re NOT lucky.
They might end up like Mitsubishi in a decade if they’re aren’t careful enough. Nissan has another chance if they ditch CVTs in all of their cars and JATCO. They don’t have much time left though. Emission regulations, “Full-EV-Promise-By-203X”, and money spent on EV development could either make or break a good Z or even an ICE R36 from happening.
NISSAN! F JATCO AND DITCH CVTS!!!!
Don't worry. I am sure their extensive telemetry gathering will save them. Always a good sign when a business is smart enough to build statistics. /s
Nissan is soon going bankrupt if they keep this up.
I'm surprised that the Nismo Z is only an automatic. Yet the gentleman that put down laps said it was the most rewarding to drive. I am always impressed with how a slower car is often the more enjoyable experience.
Like the old saying goes: “Slow car fast is better than fast car slow”
Even though 400+ HP ain't exactly slow, but it's relative to the class of cars being discussed on the video.
@@r0b3rt_959 Yup exactly.
What was your favorite from the video?
@@WarriorsPhoto I gotta be honest, I'm a sucker for the Dark Horse; even if I can't afford one.
It's the least compromised out of the 3 when it comes to livability. Plus it's also the one that you can do more things that would land you in jail.
Great dialog, editing and overall content. No loud, flashy gimmicks or random cutscenes. Keep it up guys.
Regardless of the results, I'll take a GR Supra every time. Especially in the manual.
S550/S197 Mustang I’ll take over a Supra, but I’ll take the Supra over anything here.
Why? It’s a Z4 with a Fast and Furious body kit and badge
@@michaelmcdonald9847the ignorance...
@@michaelmcdonald9847 the ignorance...
@@michaelmcdonald9847 its the most capable car here by a longshot. a simple tune of the ecu and it leaves the other two in the dust
1000% Agree with the comments at 30:50 its absolutely crazy they didn't fix that especially now that its Turbo'ed.
I thought the fuel starvation in my Cappuccino was bad at 1/4th tank, but this is somehow far worse than I've ever seen.
@@Dolby109subtle flex 😂 wish I had a Cappuccino or a Beat
@@fortheloveofnoise They are both fun, I had a Beat for a while (videos in my channel) and I miss it a lot, though the Cappuccino is better in most objective ways, and much easier to daily drive or take on a long trip.
The dark horse and the nismo are "track focused" from the factory and they were both slower than the supra.
The thing is, I do not see anything on the Supra that isn’t track focused. Maybe just the brakes
I mean their comments support my experience. My Mach 1 is faster than the supra, NOLA Motorsports park, faster sweeping track. Also lightning lap shows Mach 1 is significantly faster than the supra around VIR.
So basically supra is better handling on tight tracks, mustang on faster corners. So to say it's faster isn't totally true, but you couldn't really say the mustang is faster either.
Because the Supra weighs ~700lbs less lol. The Mustang DH was only half a sec slower tho.
@@Tattletale-Delta half a second slower and a whole lot more expensive.
@@jz7551 yeah can see that being true do to the added down force that comes equiped from factory. The supra doesn't really have any down force, in fact they mentioned it has lift. Its not really a track focused car like the dark horse is or they what have used a base gt lol
Best car review channel on TH-cam; honest reviews, amazing edits, to the point, answering questions we all have and amazing presentation. Thank you SG
Throttle House laughs at this comment. 😂😂😂😂
Huge fan of the Z platform, but it's so disappointing to see it get destroyed by all of its rivals. I'm happy that in 2023, we still have a Z. It looks fantastic it's like nissan is not even putting up a fight. It's like watching your favorite player get old and forced to retire
It can’t compete with real merikan horsepower anywayz
Very true, I had a lot of hope for the new Z and Nismo but now I’m just happy they made a new one. That Supra just punches way above its weight, and it’s not even a track variant like the others, scary potential.
@@emonoe Specs mean little. The automatic is goofy. It's all about driving experience. The Mustang is very unappealing to me, the Supra is just BMW. So the Nissan for me. I finally saw one in life this summer and it looks much better in person.
What’s frustrating is that Nissan has the skill and potential to have made a Z that leaves all its competitors in the dust. I agree that it feels that Nissan isn’t even trying at this point. I get the feeling that the Z’s days are numbered.
@@crawdaddy6969 the Nismo is the same auto. So when ya said AT is goofy, not even the Z can demand it for you.
The conflict within Jack of the VEEE8 MOTOR vs the B58 was intense. Well done again. These comparison videos are not easy and you guys did a great job figuring out and communicating the strength and weaknesses of each car.
I love how the center console shot @ 6:05 shows Tokyo Drift playing. Whether this is a coincidence or not, I do not know.
Edit: The Dark Horse shows Dark Horse playing @ 2:20 AND the Supra shows Gas Gas Gas @ 7:23. This is NOT a coincidence!
Haha I'm guessing it's on purpose. I saw the Z drift or power slide on track on Turn 2 that day
great spot
All I heard was "BUY A MIATA"... God I want one.
Bae58 prevails ☺
Facts
With the price range of the dark horse. I’d be interested to see how it compares to the C8 corvette and the 718 Cayman
Maybe after mark up but MSRP dark horse isn't in the same league
I agree , but it can't even beat the 10k + cheaper Supra. That IMO Tells u everything u need to know
For the $ of these vehicles I would go Porsche all day long
I’ve driven a C8 Z51 and own a GT350. The C8 is significantly faster and more capable. Better power to weight, faster transmission, much better traction with the weight over the rear wheels. I prefer the character of my GT350 more, but it and the dark horse that replaces it don’t compete against the C8. The GT500 goes against the C8
Or VS Camaro ZL1
Supra MT is my choice all day. Better look in my opinion and more value for the money. Also, with a femto unlock, tune and FBO, the supra becomes a whole different beast for not too much money for the ROI.
Tiny car, terrible visibility. No thanks.
@mike_w_21 it is a tiny car but that's what makes it so nimble and light. Power to weight ratio is important. Visibility isn't the best but ain't unbearable. It's definitely not for everyone
Y’all are top notch, I enjoy watching your videos. Thank you for all the work you do to make the videos.
imagine as a gen Z signing on the dotted line for a car payment > $1000/month. After insurance and maintenance, it's like paying for a house. It really feels like these manufacturers are only targeting the california bay area tech bros with no other hobbies or responsibilities.
Savings for a large down payment is the way, but once you get past 50k just lease it. This is why Miata is always the answer, a new one is actually pretty affordable.
You see, a Ford executive saw the prices houses are going for now and realized they’re under charging the youth because they all must be buying homes about now, right? Right?
NAILED it. California bastards that simp for these things and think everything is normal.
Your generation really needs to start seeing life as an RPG, its not all going to come your way in a year. You gotta level up to shit. It might take you to age 40 to get a Dark Horse/Supra tier vehicle there is no shame in that, you still got 30 years or so to live after that! Hearing your gen demanding 100K starting is getting embarrassing all that Reddit you read about careers is just BS.
In large parts of the world, the only motor vehicles most people can afford are a Honda Wave or Yamaha Sirius scooter. E.g., in Vietnam, where foreign cars like these are taxed at over 100% so average people won't even dream of owning them. Expecting vehicles to be affordable seems to be a uniquely USA phenomena?!
Z is such a mixed bag: I appreciate it being 100% Nissan, but on the other hand it is so phoned in and overpriced that I'm glad that it failed. But then they are going to cancel it and make that as an excuse... Damn you, Nissan!
It's still my pick of the bunch as a daily. We can only hope Nissan updates it soon to be viable.
I don't know how it's overpriced, it's cheaper than the mustang, but more than the Supra. Yet this is the top end Nismo model, it's more exclusive, and comes with lots of upgrades from bigger brakes to Recaro seats. It's priced the same as the 45th anniversary Supra which doesn't even have much over a standard Supra.
How is the anniversary Supra relevant when this tested version is still cheaper, faster, better to mod, better engine note, and better interior than the tested Z?
@@zachary5476 it's overpriced because it brings nothing new - it's an old parts bin Nissan that could've easily been 15% cheaper in each trim, boosting it's appeal. Sales numbers don't lie. Nismo barely makes it what the performance package should've been, yet, as you said, it's more "exclusive", so why should one go for "more exclusive" to get what it should've been from the get go? Why exclusive Nissan is worse than regular i6 Supra? Keep that justification to yourself, or better - put your money where your mouth is.
@@zachary5476it’s the same car as the 350z. It’s 3 generations on the same platform. It really was phoned in.
This channel deserves to be over million subscribers so badly. Really the most under appreciated car channel on youtube.
The quality of video production of this channel is A+.
Did anyone else notice the Supra being driven backwards at 12:04
yes lmao
Good catch haha
Yeah, that caught my eye, too. I'm like "What the heck was that?".
Lol! Eggcellent catch! 😅
That's the supra going backwards isn't it?? The z is grey.
The conclusion with Jack is priceless. love it! Great Job Guys.
Wow, I really like this channel. Definitely made for the enthusiast backed with statistical data. Great work gentleman, creating these videos is not easy.
Thanks!
One of the best car reviews I've ever seen
Great comparison video. Appreciate the effort to keep things equal. Also, really liked that you put them all on the Dyno first to get hardline numbers since there’s so many variables on the track.
Wow, you guys shredded those tires!
Thanks for the timely 25th birthday present geese guys 🎂🎉
Maybe I'll rent one of these beauties since I certainly cant afford them 💀
Ford seems to think we can afford them 🥲
@@mistamaog yeah no kidding, they must be preparing for the influx of Dodge and Chevy customers 🤷
@@2moke2creen Exactly that, especially because they don't have many options nowadays
I must say I've been watching Savagegeese for almost a decade and I thank you Mark and Jack for your informative videos. Thanks to you two, I bought a Neptune Blue Toyota GR86 and I've never been happier with a car. You guys keep doing what you're doing because, it's great!
the "we had a deal!" is so gooood music and everything was perfect!!
Price would keep me from buying a dark horse, but I’d be happy to have any of the 3 honestly, including the nismo with its auto box. Great video guys.
Get a SS 1LE in one of these track tests! I love how good of job you guys do with putting the cars on the same tires with a racing driver to keep them even. A true head-to-head.
Do they even make that car anymore? I thought they quit.
@@TeensierPython They do. In fact there's a 2024 model even. They just (for now) will be discontinuing it after this generation.
As great as the camaro platform is, it has nothing new to test drive it.
@@voodoodiecast they are being made until the end of the year. And even besides the point, they offer the best track performance for the money to date. What better benchmark to test new models?
@@scottw2140 again there’s nothing new about it. Nobody’s buying it cause they compromise alot for performance. Only a few go to a track to enjoy the camaro’s specialty while most are for street use which many didn’t enjoyed the impractical camaro.
Excellent comparison. I will say that my tuned 2020 Supra on sticky tires suffers from bad fuel starve on track as well. It’s especially compounded with aero, but man it’s a quick car that needs quick reflexes to drive quickly. It’s not too forgiving. The Mustang is by far the most emotional and best daily. Shame about the price though.
Thanks!
The only car channel I subscribe to. The closest it gets to real world long term experience with cars!
The Z's driving compliments are accurate. I drive a 2012 Altima, 270-hp 3.5-liter V-6, and it's equally amazing. Joking aside, thanks for the amazing video guys this was a great comparison!
Hey, are you the guy who passed me on the right via the exit ramp when I was stuck behind a truck in the right hand lane on I90? If so, kudos for a baller move!
Good to see Jack upgraded from his size small helmet 😂
Not surprised by the lap numbers, the Supra really aged well despite not being the newest car. Being lightweight really helped.
The Mustang is way too heavy, no reason it should weigh 2 tons.
The Z seems like it would be the most fun..... If it had a manual. It would save some weight too.
It has every reason to weigh 2 tons lol why else would it weigh 2 ton
use your brain. the mustang is a big car with a v8
@@twilightmedia8575 It's over 200lbs more than a GT350
If it didn't have 4 seats it would be faster than anything.
How is the supra not the "newer" car? Z is just a 370z chassis, which in turn is an upgraded 350z, which again in turn was designed late 90s compared to early 2010s to the Supra.
Always love the comparison tests! Great job guys
Seeing these curb weights and prices after watching the latest Miata video, I'm thinking I need to get one of those before it's gone.
You won't regret it
Miata are the most fun for the price.. wheels and tires and the grip is amazing
just wait until the new Miata SUV EV comes out in 2026
ND2 Miata is amazing. Eff modern cars and their billion horsepower that you can’t even remotely use on the street. Not to mention consumables for something like the dark horse are going to be brutal….Gas isn’t cheap anymore, the tires are huge, and brakes are enormous as well.
I owned a 19 SS 1LE and eventually went to a 2020 ND2 Club BBR pack
While the SS 1LE was incredible, the Miata is more fun on the street (safely) and a hell of a lot cheaper to daily.
Most fun car I’ve owned and I never get tired of it. It’s not perfect but it’s the best sports car on sale for under $60k in terms of fun IMO
Slow car fast is my favorite car cope,
No Jason references when you’re at crystal lake and it’s almost Halloween? Damn!
I would love to see you guys review the Camaro SS with the LE package. I believe that car is amazing it might not be as fast as the dark horse but it’s truly special
I think that is lighter and has better handling, so yes, it would be possible for the Camaro SS1LE to beat the Dark Horse at the laps.
The SS 1LE handles much better than the Dark Horse, so it would just depend on the track. I suspect on this tight track they used the Camaro would win. If you are talking straight line stuff, the Mustang wins…but you could buy a ZL1 for the same money as a Dark Horse if you care about that.
On Throttle House they discounted the Dark House solely for its numb steering, said the Camaros was far better. Surprised this test never mentioned it.
Apparently Dark Horse has one of stickiest tires in the market for track use. Better comparison would be running all the cars with the same tires for more accurate results!
"B58 is god's motor" - Silverback Jack
LOL ....
Gorilla Jack 🦍
B58 is NO 2JZ ...
When the B58 block holds 2000 hp, then come back to me.
@@ACommenterOnTH-camlol the 2JZ block doesn’t hold that 😂 And who cares, aluminum blocks are less weight and is the reason why this car handles so well. The original Supra was a pig.
@@ACommenterOnTH-camtime for bed grandpa. You’re outdated motor is getting lapped by modern 2.0t 4 bangers
Mark had my dying at the end...another awesome one guys!
Excellent comparison! Even with each car having its shortcomings it's so awesome seeing something like this out together!
Such an underrated comment at 20:20 about intake temperatures. I swear most turbo sports cars are down 25%+ horsepower on hot days once the heat soak sets in. Yet another avenue I wish car reviewers would explore
Not upset at all with the SS 1LE. Compare that at 47k to these... sheesh. Excellent video boys.
Insane value for price, insane lap time, fun unique drive style, extremely reliable and lightweight… but the overpriced 2 ton dark horse wins 🤔
Btw these arent my opinions, these are all things they themselves said in this video. Seems like there’s some bias here
Yeah, I didn't get it either. They even stated outright that the Ford shouldn't have won based on the price alone...
3988 lbs for the dark horse, ford needs to get serious about putting these cars on a diet. that thing is almost GT500 weight.
Great outro. Z loses but imho it's the best looking. Great vid thanks!
Nismo is a joke when you have a new c8 for 69k
...unless you are someone who keeps your vehicles for many years and require high reliability.
@@davepaturno4290LMAO you think Nissan’s are reliable? 💀
@@davepaturno4290c8 is the most reliable sports car from a long shot.. It has become the most reliable sports car year after year. Have you seen anyone complaining about the c8 reliability..
Starting with the LS1, corvettes have been pretty damn reliable
@@WhiteComet_CAMy 370 has been bulletproof this far.
The supra looks so good but in terms of owning, it's hard to not have the V8. It has so much character.
Would have loved to see the ss1le in this comparison! Thank you for the video.
I didn’t watch enough of the video. There are many other very funny moments. Great content guys. Thank you for this.
You guys are finally starting to get your shit together. Bravo for the recent quality content!
I heard silverback jack mentioning B58 I know enough. Supra for the win.
As much as i love the Z, I just knew it was gonna be the slowest. Still my favourite.
Everything in society today is about penis size ...
Every time I see the new Z in a video I'm ready to be disappointed, unfortunately. This is coming from someone who has owned a 350 and 370. I think I'd honestly rather just keep my 370 and mod it than "upgrade" to the new one.
Same. I’d take the Z over the Supra and Mustang but I know it doesn’t have the same performance as the rest. That’s fine tho lol
As a Z and S chassis owner, i dont give a rats ass how much slower it is over the Transgender Supra or that Mustang, i will take that Z any day.
@@GoldenSnake32 same, the styling is enough for me lol
Supra manual is perfect. With some pretty light modifications you can make it into a track weapon.
two words: wind buffeting
@@fortheloveofnoisetwo words: wind deflectors
@@fortheloveofnoiseyou can fix that for $10. Next two words, go.
@@fortheloveofnoise two words. Wind deflectors.
You guys are absolutely the best you bring a level of knowledge, thorough, detailed reviews, and a sense of humor I totally get. Also, you have great production values in your videos with the music and videography top notch guys
Great Job Mark and Jack, I will always support you on the highest tier on Patreon. Everyone give this a watch and a thumbs up. No one does car reviews and comparisons like Mark and Jack. This was a perfect comparison and you did not leave any details out. I love these type of comparisons because, I own Japanese cars and big American cars, so I am a fan of both. Very disappointed the Nissan Engineers and Nismo team screwed up not addressing the fuel delivery on the Nismo, should have really addressed that. I thought the Nismo Z would really give the Mustang a good run on track. I Love Nissan Z's and Ford Mustang's, The Supra I can not get into, not just because of the looks and tight interior, but still bothers me that it is not truly a Toyota design and engineered car. Anyway, great job, Keep these great videos coming. As Jack would say, Long Live The Mustang's "5 Liters of Freedom". I Hope Nissan fixes this Fuel Starvation issue already, also Thank you for always putting the cars on the lift, so detailed and well done.
So if a track focused GRMN Supra was ever produced that had better suspension, better brakes, better aero just like the Nismo and Ford. We should expect even better results. ;)
Was noticed that toy was testing a more track focused mk5 in the UK recently with differnt tires,bigger brakes,and a new wing but no say in a power bump. So more or less they're Def getting ready to release a track version before the frmn version comes out.
It's already so twitchy and unstable I think that's a recipe for disaster. A real track version should be toned down more than the existing street version.
@@elenchusthe track version which is the GRMN is coming with 500hp according to some reports and a much revised suspension. if that's actually true, then none of this cars here will be it's competitors, it will literally be dragging performance with the likes of the GTR and nsx
When the factory warranty ends on these, unless I was building a 1000+ hp car I would want the Supra. So easy to modify and have it still be reliable transportation
Mustang will probably be the cheapest. Coyote engines easily get 150k miles plus if maintained properly. There are plenty of parts out there and the engine is easier to work on. As much as I love the supra, you will pay bmw prices for parts and maintenance.
Reliable transportation with mostly BMW parts? I want whatever you're smoking.
@@jeffkelly9197Depends on location. It's the other way around in Europe. Parts are plentiful und cheap
@@fireexe109 gonna guess there are way more mustangs and supras in NA compared to EU... possibly even Z4s are more plentiful in NA.
@@ADUSN there's plenty of dudes running 120k+ without issue. The highest I'm aware of on a Supra is 186k. One of the 120k mile owners has been at 600whp for 90% of those miles.
The B58 is showing to be solid. Age still remains a factor we haven't seen though.
This deserves so many more views than it has... Thanks again for an amazing video
This one shot with 3 cars going around the corner with one of them going in reverse!!!!! You guys. Thank you!
@12:04
That’s the quality cinematography I’ve come to expect!
My manual TR-6060 equipped 2018 SS 1LE is a keeper!
Favorite part is Jack telling Mark that he can’t hear him over his V8 haha. Just amazing. As a former 350Z and 370Z owner, the fuel starvation issue was present in those vehicles so to essentially not address an issue dating back to 2003 just shows how lazy Nissan is. Dark Horse price tag is jaw dropping no matter how many times I see it. The price tags on the Aniston and Dark Horse is insulting to enthusiasts
Some marketing executive at FoMoCo calculated the maximum price they could put on it based on pricing sensitivity and current economic trends, thats what happened. This car isnt going to grow or even maintain the number of performance car enthusiasts that choose Ford today and going forward
I would like to see you guys do a head 2 head between the Darkhorse and the SS 1LE one last time.
Agreed. With a pro driver on this test track I think the Camaro will win. On a faster track, the Dark Horse has the advantage. Get a Camaro SS 1LE for under $50K while you can! I guess dealers are marking them a lot at the moment, so that might not be possible any more. The Camaro offers way more bang for the buck.
Another great and technically informative video. Glad to be a Patreon member for you to help keep this content flowing.
videos like this make me appreciate my 91 300zx twin turbo
Would love to see y'all do a comparison of the GT350 (maybe the R, but I think it's more apples to apples to use non-R GT350) vs Mach1 vs Dark Horse. Can use my GT350 if needed!
Yes this would be great.
In my experience, I'm a crap driver, the Mach 1 is faster than the gt350, marginally so and basically the same. I think if you are a good driver a gt350 would be faster, or maybe with autoblip mod. You would be surprised how much this helps not having to heal toe and get a perfect rev Mach every time. Also Mach 1 is much more forgiving of being a little low of the power band where the GT350 falls on it's face.
Add the Mustang GTD to that list too, please. Especially if they go with the GT350 R.
@@TheJeep1967 the GTD is like 300K it's not even in the same class. Not to mention basically nobody will have one.
But I'm always up for a video of the GTD.
@@dhyskRand Very true! But I'd still like to see that. I don't expect it to happen but, wishful thinking?
Supra easy win here. Light and agile.
wind buffeting and lack of convertible option makes it a no for me
@@fortheloveofnoisewind buffeting is an easy fix for less than $200 plus you can put $2000 more into 2020 Supra and run with liter bikes 👍🏻
@@coletonvette I fixed the wind buffeting issue for $10 😆
@@_austind even better!
Another great video. I love the candor, the detailed analysis and the inclusion of the value proposition. BTW that rolling shot of the front end of the Nismo on track @ 4:20 is cinema-quality film making. Beautiful stuff. You guys continue to outdo yourselves in the level of devotion you pour into these videos.
Jack’s t-levels we’re through the roof on this one :) 5.0L of freedom! 😊
Finally a good review in comparison of these cars, I especially liked that. You guys put them all on a dino. This video could not have been better.
I have a GR Supra and I agree with the feel of the stock suspension on track I did not like it. I updated the suspension with Springs, Sway Bars and camber plates and with a good alignment it changed the whole feel of the the car. Its a more direct feel and handles amazing now. All the Supra needs is tweaks to the suspension.
“ just needs money “
@@Paulfromwish That's every car on the planet.
Awesome test. Those tires on the Dark Horse looked trashed (@3:30) !! Looked like a lot of fun to be with though. I wonder if the Mustang Dark Horse (besides having the Tremec gearbox) is incrementally more "worth it" then just getting a GT.
Brett needs to tell my wife two seconds is a lot.
The conversations with the driver are really great content, more of that for sure.
No one else is even close to the produce you guys put out. FOR FREE!!!!!
7:43 GAS GAS GAS
12:04 Supra in reverse
23:03 B58 on Jack's hand
and of course that ending 😂
Congrats on another great comparison review guys!
God it pains me to see what they did to the Nismo Z. Such a promising car.. Double wishbone, tried and true old school tech, classic Nissan Z looks, all that effort in better suspension/aero/brakes etc. And they let it all down with a subpar trans and a unacceptable fueling issue. Damn Nissan be breaking my heart here. Not making this car available with a manual will forever be Nissan's biggest mistake of this generation of Z car.
Only silver lining is Nissan engineers said if there is enough of an outcry they will make a h shift Nismo, and it seems like the outcry is loud and clear. Seeing as how the Z33/34 and GT-Rs improved so much under the sheet metal over the years, I'm sure Nissan/Nismo will correct the complaints about the Nismo Z. The first pancake is always the worst! Now if only we can get them to make compelling commuting appliances! I want the RZ34 to succeed, the driving experience with the track oriented Nismo bushings says there's nothing wrong with that tried and true chassis.
I would love to own any of these.
That's very interesting! I don't like any of them that much. They are fast but who cares about that, most modern sportscars (or performance EVs) are fast. I would rather a used Lotus Evora... I still think the Shelby GT350 looks better and sounds better and seems like a more appealing package than this Dark Horse too.
Keep up your excellent work! Great expertise. And give us enough easter eggs in your videos for the people to discover in the comments. So many of them hidden in this video. I appreciate it. Thank you, savagegeese.
V8..v6..straight 6...good to see these motors alive ....I'd have the mustang in black...red NISSAN and a blue GR 86 instead of that BMW
Still extremely enjoying my 2023 brz 6mt.
Even if I could realistically afford one of these 3; I don't believe the 2x cost difference vs the brz would equate to 2x my happiness if anything it would be detrimental in regards to cost of fuel economy/maintenance/depreciation and truly pedestal a car that would be nerve racking and not worth it.
I have a 2020 Supra and a 2023 GR86. I enjoy the 86 just as much, if not more than the Supra. It's much cheaper to run and its capabilities are easier to access because the limits are lower. I prefer driving it on track as well because driving a slow car fast is more fun. It's more predictable at the limit and there's less instant rotation. You're not missing out by having the BRZ one bit.
@@revmatchtv Exactly! So many factors go into ride enjoyability. I have a 2023 2.0 supra and I enjoy being able to explore it's limits on regular roads without hurting myself. The smaller engine makes it handle like a front mid engine car and the b48 still has a good amount of low end torque and mid range power so it works great for day to day driving and fills a nice midpoint between the big boy supra and the naturally aspirated gr86
And the DH is going to cost insane money to run on track at its weight, it's all out of proportion to what it is and it's initial cost just like the S550 PP2. I hope Toyota puts the Turbo-3 in the 86, I'd buy one if it didn't have a Subaru motor.
@@revmatchtvexcept on long term reliability
@@fortheloveofnoise There are people with 100k + miles on the gen 2 86 platform already. I have an accelerated maintenance cycle and I send it on track frequently. FYI a reman FA24 engine is around $10K. Not the end of the world if I blow it up, but I’m not overly concerned.
Please do a Camaro SS 1LE track test with the Darkhorse and Supra! ❤
The gr86 beating the Nissan Z is insane
Better handling
gr86 is better than a supra coz its a far better looking car
@@pewterschmidt23lord99pov: you smoke crack
Best looking car Toyota currently makes.
@@bradleyduran6429 He might, but it does look far better. It is slower and sounds worse though.
Loved the ending! B58 power!
I love my 10r 5.0 coming up on 4 years and 37k. The seat shakes at the drive thru. It makes other drivers act and drive funny. Sometimes, people just wanna see you go. They know. We all know. 🐎 Is 🏆. You buy a Z and Supra for the nameplate and nostalgia. 🐎 Is bona fide the others are not IMHO.
We just need 2 cars
Lifted Prius and lifted sienna