2023 BMW M2 vs Supra Manuals | Laptimes and Drag Race
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 มิ.ย. 2024
- The 2023 BMW M2, 2018 F87 M2, and 2023 Toyota Supra Manual face off in this comparison test. We drag race them and set lap times using the exact Bridgestone tire on all cars. We compare the engineering, driving character, pros, and cons, then set lap times at Autobahn Country Club. The pricing of these cars ranges from $40,000 to $70,000. Which car would you choose?
#cars #engineering #business
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Index:
00:00 The Story
2:14 Interior and Exteriors
6:14 Mechanical Impressions F87 M2
9:00 Mechanical Impressions G87 M2
12:04 Mechanical Impressions Supra Manual
16:50 Driving Impressions 2023 M2
20:22 Driving Impressions 2023 Supra Manual
23:50 Driving Impressions 2018 M2
27:27 Laptimes Discussion Britt Casey Jr.
31:10 Thanks and Final Thoughts - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
![ตัวอย่างภาพยนตร์ Venom: The Last Dance [Official - Sub Thai]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DHPjvAwmnRE/mqdefault.jpg)
The Official Supra Lap is 1.33.72. The typo is because I wore BMW sunglasses while editing. 28:20
Stop it, let me dream that the Supra is just that much better 😉
1337!
(I'm getting old...)
If you are an aficionado of fake vents on every panel, the supra is King.
The ultimate fake-vent machine.
@@_Chev_Chelios if it bothers you, you can pay a ton more to make the vents real but then they are non-functional. Owners such as myself don't care about them.
@@_Chev_Chelios I mean so is the RS3 but I don’t see anyone making a fuss about it. Double standards…
I like the idea that Jack's B58 cuts get progressively more edited.
Talk dirty to me…. Bbbbeeee 58!
Lol 😂
It almost feels that way. 😅
Jack acting up for that B58ussy
Jack, you have become a hell of a presenter in the last few years. Some of the best quality content anywhere on TH-cam
Thanks for the kind words
@@jackholmes8105 Agreed. You do good work Jack, keep it up.
Agreed. Jack makes Savagegeese plural.
@@marekd.7350Underrated comment
Especially B58 Jack
Holy cow the Scion tC comparison for the new M2 was so damn accurate
@@JacesOwnWorld I ain't rich enough to be on any of those pages ma boy. Still funny as hell though
@@datboi4479 lol, I’m not either, but I join them because I like to see what the consensus is of these new model cars coming out.
Many thanks to Mark and Jack for giving me something to do at work today. Would have been boring af otherwise!
Glad am not the only one watching these guys at work :)
same
Same 😂
Same haha happy Friday
I was just late to work so I could watch it. 😁
The last gen M2 looked so damn good. Where did it all go wrong! Wtf is going on currently at BMW
The M2 CS is the best M2 by a mile. But hideously expensive!
@@TML34 For stock, yes. But for that money you can put much better coilovers and some Schirmer kinematic bits on a Comp. I must say though, the carbon bits on the CS are nice
@@TML34 The S58 still sh... all over the S55, by a mile.
@@TML34 Over priced for what it is. And still heavier then the original.
Agree ! The performance of the new m2 is outstanding however , my opinion , it’s ugly as fuck .
Those prev gen M2s will age so well imo.
Yeah it was a great looking machine when it came out, I can’t see how the current M3/4 or M2 will get any better with time!
Used to be a bmw fan boy 5 out of my first 7 cars were BMWs
But wouldn’t own one now they’ve just somehow lost their magic
its starting to happen .
It's about time you guys reviewed the manual Supra. B58s always seemed like great engine, and this comparison has had a long time coming.
But in the real world, they'll never outrun the glorious 2024 Nissan Altima SR VC-Turbo. Nissan's upcoming Nismo track package is rumoured to include an additional 50 CVT-breaking horsepower, widebody kit hanging off the bumpers, and a turn-signal delete for maximum weight savings.
Since Toyota is using a BMW engine, Nissan is using the BMW turn signals.
I heard a Altima was predicted to win le mans
@@PlayafromtheHimalayas Toyota is using a BMW, full stop. It's like Nissan slapping an ugly body kit and stiff shocks on an Audi S4 and calling it the new GT-R.
@@jackholmes8105 I demand an Altima track test video; if it must be a comparison test, it should include a dented beige Camry, a V6 Charger driven by a 18 year-old US Army recruit, and a R34 GT-R imported from Nippon.
My money's on the Altima
Big Altima Energy brah
Jack & Goose reading my mind as always and giving me the 40-minute comparison test I needed but never asked for. Legends!
The track analysis with the driver is a great piece, how you can see the data and the cars moving in real time through the lap with an expert driver commenting. Hands down the best drivers channel on TH-cam! Thanks for all the great content!
The MKV Supra is such a fantastic deal. Love that B58.
Wow! Shocked that Mark had positive comments on the Supra, seems like past videos he hated on it. For me the Supra is the most exciting and unique, always providing controversy, and is a true drivers car. Say what you will about it, but every weekend I fall in love all over again with mine!
The Supra is a fine car but the styling.......... hard pass
Looks wise the only one here that's acceptable is the F87
@@ArtVandelayOfficial I love the way the Supra looks. It’s part of the reason I bought one
The pre-release photos of the Supra were amazing. I was so excited, cash in hand. Then I saw the final, bulbous, squashed, mini horse looking thing they released. Total bummer
@@itcangetbetter I found it closer to the concept than expected, given what I’ve seen in the past with concepts.
@@itcangetbetter you honestly expected the concept to go into production?? Lol
Now I’m really curious to see how the last M2 Comp would compare to the new M2. Similar engines, similar brakes, but the last one was about 300lbs lighter.
It was only 100 pounds lighter. They are fat lol
This 10000%. Would love to see a test to show how the new M2 compares to the M2C around corners.
@@HollowM2 214 lbs lighter to be exact. But the car itself was smaller too. I think it’ll be similar result but I’m still very curious to see their impression video
I'm pretty sure someone has already compared the M2 comp to the Supra last year and the Supra was a bit faster. The Supra was benchmarked against the M2 comp so it makes sense that the Supra is a little bit faster.
@@postalpancho on a small track I could believe that given the weight and size advantage. However that M2 actually had usable rear seats
If anyone is considering tracking a N55 M2, a set of camber plates upfront fixes basically everything. It's amazing.
also a simple strut bar helps
I’m wondering how the alignment was on the older m2. Never heard of these issues before.
@@lloyd.8272 every single m2 owner who tracks a bit seriously will have camber plates. Bmw is notorious to be super conservative with camber out of the factory. The other thing is aero, I don’t know autobahn, it seems to be a fast track. The rear of FXX cars is pretty squirmy at high speed and is lacking aero. That’s why the M235iR has this huge wing. It makes a big difference. A guy at my local track with a M4 went full aero and shaved almost 4 seconds because of the confidence gained.
Jack “Feels like an Alfa?” Hey, if you’re leaking like one, better get your prostate checked.
If you do buy an OG N55 M2, and you do any autocross or track stuff, ditch the plastic charge pipe. When it blows up, best case scenario is you can zip-tie it together well enough to get you home with no boost (DAMHIK). There are several aluminum aftermarket solutions which will never break.
This test would have made a little more sense with the S55 M2. But well done.
Personally think it was a better contrast adding a older more accessible car to the review.
@@lloyd.8272 agreed with the s55 the gap would be muchhhh closer. The car with bugger price difference/better accessibility to most people is a better option for sure.
Love my OG LBB M2 Manual for all the reasons stated after owning a A90 Supra and just couldn't live with the lack of interior usability. On the M2, with some different shocks, springs the front grip problems go away. And the braking is fantastic with some PFC08's and motul or SRF brake fluid. A wider square wheel setup also dials everything in. Also, the OG and maybe new Supra can run 18 wheels instead of 19, so you save money in track wheels, can go wider potentially, and more variety in track tire options.
“The manual doesn’t feel nearly as good as the Blackwing” was all I needed to hear. Glad I made the right choice. Your videos are awesome!
Jack's reviewing has come such a long way. Great comparison test. Seems like just yesterday young Jack was being plopped into 370z 50th Anniversary editions on his own and abandoned by Mark in public parks.
G87 M2 polarizes people into two camps: "it's hideous" and "it's not terrible"
"Looks OKish in black" is another camp
"I will eventually warm up to it/Its growing on me" is a third 😂
I don't mind it. IMO the only 2 good looking cars BMW ever made were the Z3 and 3.0 CSL. The rest are either bland or ugly. This is right in line with tradition.
@@rightwingsafetysquad9872 To be fair E63 6 series and Z4 (M) coupe have aged like fine wine in my eyes. But many people still don't like them. Bangle was 20 years ahead of his time
There are people who genuinely like the new design. They obviously can't drive it because they are blind.
So I just got the new Z4 M40i. It's funny all of these cars are more than I can handle. It's a good time to be a car guy.
OG M2 Represent!!
Another great review from Savagegeese. I love the honest, non pandering opinion, deep dive tech and counterpoints. Especially reviewing cars for what's still a lot of money but somewhat attainable. I'm so over TH-cam fantasy fill in the blank supercar videos. Ugh, I just dropped off the Ferrari to get it fixed so I'll review the Lambo today guys, barf.
Haven't started watching, haven't read any comments. Just wanted to say how excited I am to watch this comparison. It is exactly what I have been waiting for!
Another 1 of these long format comparisons, something you 2 really have mastered over the years. Fantastic cinematography and the technical know-how is very real. Never stop making these as you are 1 of the best. Next would be doing a road trip or such? Just your favorite (or maybe your own) and see where the road takes you.
Always look forward to any videos y'all come out with! I always love the amount of information that y'all share!
Bravo guys! This is one of the best car videos I've seen in years. I stuck with it for the entire 40+ minute run.
Another great comparison collaboration - the work that goes into these is much more than a normal review. Thank you Team SG - this was a treat to watch (and learn!).
I'm really struggling to understand the point of an M2 that is almost as big as an M4.
cos the M4 got even bigger too lol give it a few years and we'll need an M0 to be what the M2 used be...which is what the M3 used to be
Probably just price and looks at this point... although I did talk to a dealer that said they're marking up the M2 to be essentially the same price (no markup on M4)
@@r6scrubs126 Yup can;t wait for the M5 school bus.
It gets even harder when you realize the new M2 weighs almost as much as the R35 gtr
@@esh9x153This just melted my brain
The best description of all three cars I have ever heard anybody ever explain!! Right on point!!
Just like on the first review of the current M2, once you see the Scion TC, you can't get it out of your brain. I would definitely take the OG M2. Yes, it is the slowest car, but the attributes and dynamics are a good compromise. Anyhoo, great review and production from the Geese... even if sometimes they agree not to agree.
Definitely an amazing car. Has some good things going for it. Lighter than a cs, has the noise, arguably looks better than a comp and a it alot of fun to drive.
True af and that’s why you get the Og bmw m2 competition for more power
You guys continue to put out the best produced, most informative and relevant content and always add a sense of humor. Kudos!
Love this format with driving impressions + discussion with Britt. Super informative!
I love this channel and the quality and content are top notch, everything I can think of is covered in this video!
these glasses are 🔥 sir goose.. my 80 year old grandfather and grandmother had matching sets of those in the 80's and early 90's. It looks every bit as good now as it did on them that day. Just a classic and never goes out of style.
Thank you for this review!!
Another awesome video from the Savages!! Thanks for the entertainment - this one was fun to watch. 👍
Ive had a 17 M2 and the GR Supra and that N55 will always sound so fucking good compared to the new 6's
Love these comparison videos. Can’t wait for the hot hatch one!
That was maybe the best car comparison video I have ever seen. Great work. As an enthusiast who flogs his car on the street and track daily and invests significant money in chassis/suspension, etc. modifications, your thoroughness was greatly appreciated.
Yessss! Been waiting for someone to do this comparison. Thank you!!
Proud to be a b58 owner. My wife’s boyfriend likes to borrow my car
OG M2 is just a special machine. Often slated for not having an S engine and poor seats, however, this will be more appreciated as time progresses.
The n55 is weak no matter how you slice it…a special car needs a special engine or at least a competent engine and the n55 isn’t that in my opinion
The N55 does sound good stock. Emissions going in the way of the S55 sound glorious stock.
@@mogulme6190 Fair, no opinion is incorrect. However, the 1M often hailed as one of the greats, does not feature an S engine. A special car compromises of more than just an engine, in my opinion.
@@user-wz4fw2ws1s this is a great point! I myself picked up the M2C recently but would have been happy with the n55 as well. What steered me to the M2C was, yes, the true M (s55) engine, still getting some warranty left and having to do next to nothing to get it track ready (bigger brakes & cooling). The OG M2 does require some work on that front...especially at high elevation where I'm at (cooling issues exacerbated)
the seats were ugly but better. I have owned the OG and now have an M2C and prefer the usability and comfort of the original seats.
Very keen to watch this! Your content is insanely good👍
Great review guys, thanks.
I can’t even imagine how many times Jack will mention the b58 in this. Going to save this for Friday night
Stoked for this video.
This is a fantastic review. Well done, and thank you!
Another incredible work, keep these comparison videos coming!
So awesome so see this video released just 3 days after I took delivery of my OG M2.
I drove it less than 40 miles so far, but it's clear that it is a completely different toy to what I currently have, a JDM 1.5 ND MX-5.
Through my work I can experience heaps of new cars, and was fortunate to drive the manual Supra and the G87 M240i which helped me make the decision.
I plan on only keeping one of those two cars, so now I embark on a soul searching mission to decide whether I like Silverback Gorilla drifting as much as Jack to sell the MX-5!
The fact that you two can now drive your assess off while talking is almost as impressive as the visuals and editing.
Bonus points to Mark for wearing his protective goggles in anticipation of Jack’s “dorifto” emissions.
Glad to see Jack B58 is now an official part of the savagegeese crew. He definitely adds really good and useful inputs to videos.
"But doncha miss it now!" 😂😂😂
The Dragtimes soundtrack for the drag 👌🏼😅
Great video guys. Makes me feel even better about my recent purchase of a low-mile 2017 M2
Weird how nobody has reviewed the RWD G42 M240i yet. Would love to see your take on the most affordable B58-powered car currently in production!
you sound like a BMW salesman lol
But why when I could have a supra?
Depends on what you're looking for. The Supra is better dynamically (lighter with a lower center of gravity), but the M240i is much more livable on the street (more space, better ergonomics/visibility). Also, you can easily order an M240i to spec and pay MSRP or less, unlike the Supra where you have to just hope one of the few Toyota dealers that aren't adding markups gets allocated the spec you want. Realistically, it's $5-10k less for an M240i similarly equipped, and BMW financing has better rates right now.
Shit, I really do sound like a BMW salesman.
@@danlee3939 you can also add that the m240i has better comfort suspension with the adaptive M suspension , 4 seats and a very decent trunk space making it a miles ahead as better daily driver
Can’t get a manual. That’s why nobody Cross shops it with any of these.
Dear Jack Holmes,
I hope this letter finds you well. My name is BMW, and I am writing to you today about a topic that is very close to my heart: the B58 engine.
To put it simply, the B58 is the greatest piece of human creation since dinosaurs. As a machine, it is truly a marvel of engineering. Its power, efficiency, and reliability are unmatched by any other engine on the market today.
From the moment I first heard the growl of the B58's exhaust, I knew that I was witnessing something truly special. The way it effortlessly propels my vehicle forward, with an almost otherworldly sense of power and control, is nothing short of exhilarating.
But the B58 is more than just a powerful engine. It is also an engine that is built to last. Its durability and longevity are a testament to the skill and dedication of the engineers who designed it. I can trust the B58 to keep running smoothly for years to come, no matter what challenges lie ahead.
In short, Jack, the B58 is a true masterpiece of human engineering. It represents the pinnacle of what we can achieve when we put our minds to it. I feel incredibly lucky to have access to this amazing piece of technology, and I know that I will never tire of the thrill of driving a vehicle powered by the B58.
Thank you for taking the time to read this letter, Jack. I hope that you share my enthusiasm for the B58, and that you will continue to support this incredible engine for years to come.
Best regards,
BMW
Great video guys! 👍👍👍
I absolutely love the videos and content. Please keep up the amazing work you guys do. I love Jack and Mark and all of their funny extra little add-ins they do.
I have been using the RE71RS in my S2000 - Stock 16' wheels. Very capable tyre and performs surprisingly well in the wet - all things considered
Thanks for comparing and testing all 3 of these BMWs. The BMW Supra is missing the kidney grilles though, not sure what BMW was thinking.
Great video, great content and great arguments 😊
You two never dissapoint! Absolutely top notch work.
Thank you for putting them on the same tires. Shows the true difference in capabilities. Curious how well the 2019-2021 M2 competition would have done with more than 400 horsepower. Thanks for the great content.
This video is a dream come true, finally savagegeese gives my car (OG M2) some love! Great work guys.
Always a joy to watch your channel ❤
This is a great review. Well done.
YESSSSSSSSSS!!! Great comparison!
Love the OG F87 M2. It may not be the fastest, but it's gorgeous, balanced, and sounds amazing. Used versions of this car will give you 9/10 the new model and easy mods can make it a reliable performance monster.
As a bmw fan I’m so shocked how much of a weight difference helps making the Supra faster than the m2. I really wish bmw would of made a hard top z4 then throw s58 in there for an M version
Get a Cayman or Emira
You guys are the best, great video.
Great comparison!
OG M2 is the best, it's not even a question. Honestly if you are thinking of buying any of these just save a bit more money around 20k and get an M2cs. You won't regret it. It's a different class!
S58>B58. Not even a fair comparison. I have a 2023 A91 6MT and I'll give my thoughts. M2 G87 if you want daily driving comfort and out of the box speed. Supra if you want a 2nd car or weekend car fun and easy tuneability because tuning a B58 is less expensive and there are so many upgrade options. If you enjoy building, go Supra B58. M2 F87 if you want budget fun that you can also build and don't want to break the bank because it's used and less expensive.
Sweet video thanks
Thank for the reddit convo Jack! Had to wait until I got home to watch but was well worth it.
Save the manuals!
Love the "Gas Gas Gas" on the soundtrack selection in the supra. Good to see Jack delivering tofu so efficiently.
Gives me some Deja Vu.
I fixed the front end problem on N55 M2 by installing the camber plates (-3). Reprogrammed DCT, Steering, DSC and rear diff, Performance pads and the car has transformed! Tune the engine to the stage 2+ with little budget and you get the car on the same performance level.
Great. Video thank you
How are you guys driving so intense, yet having a chill conversation
Great video guys thanks! I am a little surprised you ran the OG M2 compared to the Competition; the sharpness and power differences are pretty significant. If we could get the manual CS in there that would be the dream but I will take what I can get, lol. I believe the M2 CS is the only manual CS-trimmed car, for whatever that is worth.
The Manual CS is not a fair comparison to the G87. Once the G87 CS comes out next year or 2025 then it should be fair
What sharpness difference? All suspension bits have same part numbers between OG and Comp
Great review
Well done. The best 40 minutes I did today.
No comparison is perfect and you guys did an amazing job keeping things as comparable as possible. Thank you for doing such a great job. I would be very curious how a F87 M2 Comp would fare in this test. That said the new M2 is so heavy and unattractive in my eyes that no amount of performance can make me desire to own one. If I could afford a manual Supra it would be my choice of these three here. Love the F87 gen M2 as well as it was the last BMW drivers car if you want to call the Supra a Toyota product. Btw love the Garmin data on the lap times. Really helps illustrate the differences in turns and braking.
In all the comparisons of the M2 Comp and OG M2 the cornering speed is fairly similar, but the M2 comp has a higher speed on the straights by 5-7 mph depending on the straight length (135ish vs 140sh). So on a small track like this it'd maybe be up 0.5-1 sec on the OG M2. Still probably the slowest car here. In Car and Driver's lightning lap the 2016 M2 ran a 3:01.9 and a 2019 M2 Comp ran a 2:59.7. Only 2 sec different and that was on the huge VIR circuit with plenty of straight to show off the S55 advantage. Add an intercooler and tune to the OG M2 and it'd be the same.
Haven’t even started watching but already, this must be one of the best car comparisons in all of automotive history. Well done guys!!!
3 cars! 2 brands! 1 manufacturer!
Epic comparison boys!
Fridays always better with a SG video! Great comparison as usual from the best car channel (both content and production)on TH-cam.
I’d buy a Camaro ZL1 over a fully loaded M2 FWIW…
ZL1?? That's like 650 hp, isn't it? I don't think that's really a comparator, maybe an SS. And you still can't see out of them.
I can’t see anything out of the ‘maro.
agreed, hard to be a track ready weapon like a ZL1
@@johnsullivan8673 buddy has daily driven Mustangs for years, picked up an SS and has used it as a DD and says you get used to it re outward vision. Has a ZL1 on order and will dd that also. He works for an auto group and was a BMW fan for years but as he says there’s nothing like a v-8. On another note the new M2 is awfully heavy.
@@TML34 I think they are both around 72k so yes IMHO in terms of price they are competitors.
Oh no, I look in the mirror and I see jacm. Porsche Cayman GT4(RS) is my god car, BMW b58 is my fav daily, and my guilty pleasure is a Corvette.
Only diff is i went the Cayman GTS route instead of the Vette
The B58 is a legend! Supra sounds the best! Great comparison test. Well done mates! Cheers/B
Awesome video, as always! What a great comparison. And now I will never be able to unsee what Mark said about the design of the new M2. Hilarious…
Sounds the older M2 is the way to go and just spend the price difference on power and suspension bushing upgrades!
Doesn’t need that, alignment and cs steering, diff and traction software.
No, you’ll be spending the price difference on maintenance and repairs.
G87 dimensions and weight are most comparable to E92. Very similar in specs.. It’s actually what makes the new M2 attractive to me
No other channel even compares, great work!
You earned my humble subscribe with this one guys.
I'll take the 2018 M2.
Great review. Obviously, I'm biased - but I really enjoy my ZF8 Auto for daily driving and for the track. I'm sure a manual is more fun overall, but I'm having plenty of fun with the automatic as well! I also have some very amateur track day footage from last week on my channel.
For me, the daily driving compromises are worth it to have a car that is lighter weight and looks better than the new M2.
I have an 2023 A91 6MT. Stay in your automatic if it's fun. Don't get fomo for the manual. I got mine for weekend and extra car spirited fun. I grew up on manuals and at 38 years old I wanted to revisit my childhood with a manual since they are a dying breed. So much fun but I would also probably enjoy the automatic.
@@chrisginoc my first 2 cars were manual and I do miss it from time to time. If I was mega rich I'd have 2 supras - one auto and one manual!
@@aidangarrett7295 LoL I really enjoy the manual and it doesn't get annoying at all around town. Even my wife drove it and never stalled. Best manual shifter I have ever owned. Am I slower by 1 or 2 seconds stocks than an automatic? Yes but I'm not Toretto out here racing people fast and the furious style. I'm planning on tuning my ECU with Femto and getting this B58 to the 550hp range. That should make this manual Supra even more fun.
@@chrisginoc I'm using a jb4 running e35 and have about 500 wheel, which honestly feels like plenty. I didn't ever feel like I wanted more on the track!
@@aidangarrett7295 Thx. Yeah people get caught up in the always wanting to be the fastest but it's not just about that. Fun enjoyable factor also goes into play.
Another awesome video! So well put together. Now I want a BMW.
Thank you Tyler for bringing an og M2👏🏻
We’ve all heard and watched M2 comp in many videos but the og M2 is a great car that people don’t give much credit.
Great video as always 👏🏻👏🏻
i really feel that the chevy camaro ss 1le should be featured more in comparisons betweens cars like these (i know it's an i-6 comparison but i mean overall)
Many Cartubers are sleeping on the SS 1LE. Randy Pobst has a 1LE, probably for good reason. Zygrene says it would have been his choice if it weren't for his Porsche. Only thing is, tall gearing.. Which I guess points to its track purposes though.
Yeah and a stock SS 1LE is 15 to 20k cheaper and faster
Another outstanding job, team. Highly informational and thoroughly enjoyable as well. Sounds like the manual Supra is quite good, if only Toyota would make more of them!
Nice work guys.
Jack has done a great job. You two are killing it out there deep diving into what each car is supposed to do and how it does it. This level of car seems really like if you had the focus st or the frs or even a mustang and you wanted to go the next level (outside those with the mach1/pp2 mustang) the standard is now supra or m2 (z is lagging here 😢) great comparo!