Being involved in the mental illness/trauma community, I've seen a lot of people not trust themselves to give a child better than they grew up with. It's fear, I suppose, but it's also an honest desire to end the cycle of abuse/neglect. I've witnessed so many family members completely deny horrible childhoods and justify treating their own children essentially the same. There are just more of us who want better for the next generation and know we're so effed up that it might not be possible, and can't imagine taking a chance on hurting a child emotionally or physically. So yes, fear. But wholly justified.
@@ferventharpy Who is supposed to raise children when the vast majority of people (if not 100% of people) are imperfect enough to potentially harm their children in some way due to their own flaws? It’s a difficult argument because having children is, perhaps for most people, the only strong enough motivation to be a lot better than we are right now. Children demand a goodness in us that no one else does simply because they need us like one one else does. So who should raise the next generation? The people brave enough to pursue being good despite having experienced a lot of evil.
@@Modern_Marriagefear is a legitimate reason… if you want ppl to not be afraid have affordable healthcare, the ability to take parental leave, food security and housing security… if someone is struggling with basic necessities and having children that is not brave … it is selfish… if someone is struggling with mental health enough that they know they should not have children i would say that is brave and unselfish of them to own where they are and not relegate another human to struggling with them… you sound like you want ppl to do what you want and thats just not how this works…. Ppl have the right to choose even if you feel they chose wrong
I don't think it's fear driving the community. I think it's the fact that not having kids is becoming more normal / less stigmatized and more people are realizing that they can shape their lives the way they want. I got sterilized at 23 because I knew I didn't want kids. I'm almost 30 now and still don't want kids. Kids don't fit into the life I want to live. If people don't want kids, that's a good reason to not have kids and that is 100% ok :)
Exactly! Not having people is morally neutral ! And people shouldn't have to extensively justify their reasoning beyond "I don't want to". Congrats on the sterilisation !
@@Lexouchan thank you! And yes I completely agree on the morally neutral. Having parents who 100% want kids is much more healthier for the child than having parents who had to be convinced into having them.
I disagree that most of childfree people are lead by fear. I feel like people who are afraid of the lifestyle change / huge increase of responsibility are more likely to delay their parenthood rathen that being childfree by choice. Does some of these people end up never having kids ? Probably but I highly doubt it's a significant percentage. Does the lifestyle change plays a factor in a lot of people choice to be childfree ? Of course. But not because they are afraid of it, but because they don't want it. That is a lot of comitment just to please your parent / society if it's not something you genuinely want. And that's outside of people that just can't have that livestyle change (for financial or medical reasons). Also I disagree about the "that's a risk worth taking". You are talking about another human being there. What if you were right and you can't take care of the child ? What if they are neglected ? Underfed ? Unclothed ? Taken away by child services into the already saturated foster system because you took that risk ? Worst thing that can happen if you send a letter of application to Harvard is you get rejected. Worst thing that can happen if you have a child despite not wanting it is ruining a child's life. The consequences are way higher there. Let's also not pretend that being a parent makes you automatically love your child and cherish them. That's false. I volunteer to an elderly woman that was born in the fifties from a woman that didn't want children but was forced to because of the time she lived in. The result is that she was physically and mentally abused as a child and still has physical and mental consequences of it today in her late 60s, and struggled with it all her life. Every children deserves to be completely and unirevokably wanted and loved.
@@Lexouchan Is it possible that some lifestyles are more virtuous than others? If not, we can’t justify any laws or ethical guidelines at all. If so, we need to encourage the lifestyles that make the world and its individuals better. Parenting is probably the most accessible lifestyle that makes people more selfless, compassionate, and productively generous. In a world in which having kids is necessary for so many reasons, wanting to maintain our own comfort and freedom from responsibility may not be enough to justify not having children if we care at all about making ourselves and the world better.
@@Modern_Marriage except you can make the world a better place without having children ( by volunteering in charities, having a job that saves lives or the environment etc), and on the other end you can make the world worst by having children (if you neglect / abuse them for example). A lot of people specifically choose to not have children in order to make the world a better place (many scientific sources talks about the overpopulation and all there isn't enough resources on earth to maintain our lifestyle long-term). While their are lifestyle that are more virtuous than others (like people saving lives on the daily for example versus being involved in child slavery to use two extreme examples) having or not having children is completely morally neutral. Forcing people to have children when they don't want to, or forbidding people to have children that want to have them on the other end is morally wrong. You seem to be happy and fulfilled to be a mother and that's good for you ! I am glad. But please consider that not everyone is like you / have the same life aspiration as you. And don't worry a lot of people still want kids ! Just because now people feel free to not have children and talk about it doesn't mean no one is having nor wanting children ! In my team we are 7 women, 3 are already mothers , 3 want to be in the future (currently under 30). And I am the only one not wanting any children. So while it can seem to be a lot depending on the corner on social media you end up on it's not everyone.
Being involved in the mental illness/trauma community, I've seen a lot of people not trust themselves to give a child better than they grew up with. It's fear, I suppose, but it's also an honest desire to end the cycle of abuse/neglect. I've witnessed so many family members completely deny horrible childhoods and justify treating their own children essentially the same. There are just more of us who want better for the next generation and know we're so effed up that it might not be possible, and can't imagine taking a chance on hurting a child emotionally or physically.
So yes, fear. But wholly justified.
@@ferventharpy Who is supposed to raise children when the vast majority of people (if not 100% of people) are imperfect enough to potentially harm their children in some way due to their own flaws? It’s a difficult argument because having children is, perhaps for most people, the only strong enough motivation to be a lot better than we are right now. Children demand a goodness in us that no one else does simply because they need us like one one else does. So who should raise the next generation? The people brave enough to pursue being good despite having experienced a lot of evil.
@@Modern_Marriagefear is a legitimate reason… if you want ppl to not be afraid have affordable healthcare, the ability to take parental leave, food security and housing security… if someone is struggling with basic necessities and having children that is not brave … it is selfish… if someone is struggling with mental health enough that they know they should not have children i would say that is brave and unselfish of them to own where they are and not relegate another human to struggling with them… you sound like you want ppl to do what you want and thats just not how this works…. Ppl have the right to choose even if you feel they chose wrong
Keep going.
I don't think it's fear driving the community. I think it's the fact that not having kids is becoming more normal / less stigmatized and more people are realizing that they can shape their lives the way they want. I got sterilized at 23 because I knew I didn't want kids. I'm almost 30 now and still don't want kids. Kids don't fit into the life I want to live. If people don't want kids, that's a good reason to not have kids and that is 100% ok :)
Exactly! Not having people is morally neutral ! And people shouldn't have to extensively justify their reasoning beyond "I don't want to".
Congrats on the sterilisation !
@@Lexouchan thank you! And yes I completely agree on the morally neutral. Having parents who 100% want kids is much more healthier for the child than having parents who had to be convinced into having them.
I disagree that most of childfree people are lead by fear.
I feel like people who are afraid of the lifestyle change / huge increase of responsibility are more likely to delay their parenthood rathen that being childfree by choice.
Does some of these people end up never having kids ? Probably but I highly doubt it's a significant percentage.
Does the lifestyle change plays a factor in a lot of people choice to be childfree ? Of course. But not because they are afraid of it, but because they don't want it. That is a lot of comitment just to please your parent / society if it's not something you genuinely want.
And that's outside of people that just can't have that livestyle change (for financial or medical reasons).
Also I disagree about the "that's a risk worth taking". You are talking about another human being there. What if you were right and you can't take care of the child ? What if they are neglected ? Underfed ? Unclothed ? Taken away by child services into the already saturated foster system because you took that risk ? Worst thing that can happen if you send a letter of application to Harvard is you get rejected. Worst thing that can happen if you have a child despite not wanting it is ruining a child's life. The consequences are way higher there.
Let's also not pretend that being a parent makes you automatically love your child and cherish them. That's false. I volunteer to an elderly woman that was born in the fifties from a woman that didn't want children but was forced to because of the time she lived in. The result is that she was physically and mentally abused as a child and still has physical and mental consequences of it today in her late 60s, and struggled with it all her life.
Every children deserves to be completely and unirevokably wanted and loved.
@@Lexouchan Is it possible that some lifestyles are more virtuous than others? If not, we can’t justify any laws or ethical guidelines at all. If so, we need to encourage the lifestyles that make the world and its individuals better. Parenting is probably the most accessible lifestyle that makes people more selfless, compassionate, and productively generous. In a world in which having kids is necessary for so many reasons, wanting to maintain our own comfort and freedom from responsibility may not be enough to justify not having children if we care at all about making ourselves and the world better.
@@Modern_Marriage except you can make the world a better place without having children ( by volunteering in charities, having a job that saves lives or the environment etc), and on the other end you can make the world worst by having children (if you neglect / abuse them for example). A lot of people specifically choose to not have children in order to make the world a better place (many scientific sources talks about the overpopulation and all there isn't enough resources on earth to maintain our lifestyle long-term).
While their are lifestyle that are more virtuous than others (like people saving lives on the daily for example versus being involved in child slavery to use two extreme examples) having or not having children is completely morally neutral. Forcing people to have children when they don't want to, or forbidding people to have children that want to have them on the other end is morally wrong.
You seem to be happy and fulfilled to be a mother and that's good for you ! I am glad. But please consider that not everyone is like you / have the same life aspiration as you.
And don't worry a lot of people still want kids ! Just because now people feel free to not have children and talk about it doesn't mean no one is having nor wanting children !
In my team we are 7 women, 3 are already mothers , 3 want to be in the future (currently under 30). And I am the only one not wanting any children.
So while it can seem to be a lot depending on the corner on social media you end up on it's not everyone.