oh okay i did finish the game once and i think i heard john say it so thank you my mink get mested up some times i have not played the hame in 5 months
Mine was when Micha was insulting Arthur in front of Dutch when they were all riding together. It rang a chord of the same kind of belittling betrayal I've gone through with people I was loyal to (and probably shouldn't have been)
agent milton said it best: “Who made you the messiah to these lost souls you've led so horribly astray?” Dutch manipulated young lost souls with his god complex and smooth words, arthur and john being just children, to groom them into a life of crime and do his dirty work. the longer you think about it the more you realize how horrible of a person Dutch was. colm was bad too, but he never pretended to be otherwise, and his boys knew exactly what they meant to him: disposable workers. but dutch’s gang thought they were family and that he actually cared about them
they should have in my opinion, it was honestly the best game I have ever played, in the end there was hardly any happy endings, that's what broke me. Arthur never deserved to die like that.
Honestly, the story would translate to TV pretty smoothly with the right people behind it. It's been done successfully before with games like The Last of Us.
Dutch is the main villain, and i explain in my point of view why: Dutch is egocentric and manipulative. Even if Micah wasn't the rat, the gang's fate would likely be the same, and that's because Micah knew how to feed Dutch's inflated ego. Arthur and Hosea put the well-being of the gang members ahead of their egos, while Dutch, even when he seemed to be altruistic, was only doing that to convince himself that he was some kind of misunderstood hero (like when Hosea say to not seek revenge against Bronte, and Dutch says that is not about revenge, only to contradict himself in the way to Lagras.). Arthur and Charles were aware that they (the Van Der Linde gang) were just bandits, while Dutch fantasized that they were good rebels fighting the system, and justified her violence and lack of scruples behind a supposed need (Heidi McCourt and the old woman in Guarma, also Eagle Flies and the young wapiti men). When confronted about his actions Dutch had no shame in lying, saying that it was necessary or that he had no choice (abandoning Arthur in the Oil Field, for example). To what extent did he do this consciously or pathologically? It's hard to say. But he has always been a villain, the difference is that in RDR 1 (which I played even before 2) he no longer tries to maintain the fantasy that he is an American Robin Hood.
Your explanation hit the nail right on the head, which makes sense why Dutch was willing to turn on Arthur so quick. As long as everyone in the gang was willing to feed Dutch’s ego by believing in his narrative, he would continue to play the persona of an “altruistic hero”. As the gang slowly falls apart, the more Micah feeds Dutch’s ego and the more people in the gang started to see him for who he was really was and that his narrative was BS. The more Arthur turned his attention toward good deeds and less toward his loyalty toward Dutch, this explains why he was so willing to leave Arthur to die. The moment you wound a narcissist’s ego, they have absolutely no problem or hesitation hurting and abusing you. This is why Dutch apparently seems to “change” because he was losing loyalty. Dutch’s whole “hero” persona was a mask.
@@sydneyallen8820i think his “hero” persona was a mask to a point. I like to think of it as Hosea being the Angel on his shoulder while Micah is the Devil on his shoulder. With the gang effectively being hunted down and all of them on edge, it was to no surprise he leaned towards Micah towards the end. Micah was the only one being “loyal.” Banged up head from Dutch and it would make anyone stress about who is actually being loyal or not. Which made it easier for him to just side with the people who didn’t question him. At the end of chapter 6 we see Dutch’s regret on his face. Then on American Venom it is implied Dutch came for the same reason as John. It is implied and Dutch also shot Micah as well. Ultimately: Dutch was a bad man from the start but attempted to not be that bad man. Pretty much Hosea was his anchor (It is also shown in the story that Arthur preferred Hosea more than Dutch which could be another factor as to why he doubted Arthur a lot after his death). The more he lost the more it seemed like he couldn’t come back. So it seemed he just embraced that side of him in rdr1 due to the fact that he essentially had nothing to lose at that point. At that point it just seems like he was just trying to survive in a world that didn’t want him anymore. This was something along the lines Dutch said right before he died as well. All in all I think there are multiple on top of multiple factors in the gangs decline. Dutch tried to fight back at the world he always did best, but, with technology on the rise and police forces being more prevalent….yea they stood no chance unless they played it smart. However, Dutch being Dutch, they needed one big getaway. Which could have worked if he played his cards right. Back to him putting on/off a mask though, final conclusion: With everything going to shit, on top of added stress, making mistakes on top of mistakes, stress on who is the rat, getting banged on the head, and getting played by Bronte. It’s kinda like Dutch said fuck it, let me trust the one person who isn’t doubting me. He’s one of the gang members and It’s not like Micah is giving invalid reasons to Dutch. All the things Micah feeds to Dutch makes sense, it just isn’t right. As dutch said, he’s trying to have the gang survive so he’s dropping all his morals to do so (Micah made it easier to do so). From Dutch’s POV, everyone is just doubting him. Which is valid. Micah is the only one providing a solution whether that is a morally good or bad. However one thing he did not account for was Micah being the rat. Or he did suspect him but lost sight of it during chapter 6 with all the stress. In chapter 2 theres a random encounter with Micah sucking up to Dutch. Dutch looks at Arthur and asks, “whats his game?”
The saddest part to me was when Arthur begs Dutch to let John, the women and children leave. Dutch can’t get past the fact it’s John he asks for but misses the fact that Arthur even then is willing to die for Dutch but just wants the rest to have a chance to live. It’s gut wrenching
Arthur was begging for Dutch to think of their safety, but all Dutch saw was an enemy. He saw John as a rat sewing discontent in Arthur, pure delusion.
1 - Probably didn't know where Arthur was, and if he did he would of rode into a trap headfirst 2 - Everyone thought Arthur was dead considering he literally went underwater 3 - Fuck Dutch
Dutch is the main villain. Can't believe how many people defend him. ''but but he went crazy it's not his fault''. Dutch just showed his true colors, he was an ego maniac who only cared about money
I don't really think he really cares about the money. For me it was just an excuse he said to the gang to keep them believe on him. The real dutch's goal is only to destroy this modern society. When i said he don't care about the money we can see that, for example, he didn't go take the blackwater's money, he didn't make Bronte an hostage to earn money, he didn't take back the gold he gave to the old lady even after her death. Even at the end, when you choose to go take the money, Dutch didn't take the money and he just leave the camp.
He never wanted to murder anyone, he did it because that's how Dutch raised him to be, Loyal. It was only when he went against Dutch's teachings that he actually did good, gave money when he didn't have much (in story money not in game money) or when he forgave the debts that Straus created. Arthur was always good he just didn't allow himself to do any good because of his loyalty to the gang
Don’t know if that’s a fair comparison because Trevor actually showed he was a loyal person. He was mean to enemies but he would risk his life for his friends. When I was playing the game I heard I would have to kill one of the characters and it was going to be Trevor however as the game went on I decided I’m not killing him and I chose option c every time.
@@Averagegunenthusiast IF you chose to kill Trevor , Michael will have no problem to kill his friend. If you decided to kill Michael, Trevor will refuse to help you. Trevor was chaotic but he was loyal.
A better comparison for Trevor, is Micah, both of them are trigger go lucky, shoot first ask questions later and thick skilled individuals preferring to take the extreme route before anything else unless overruled, except Trevor has been shown to be loyal, and despite his behaviour, clings on well to whoever he calls a friend, Micah on the other hand, slips away, makes a deal and has Dutch's mind and emotions in the palm of his hand. So aside from Micah being a rat, him and Trevor are more alike and Trevor and Dutch
me too. he knew the gang for far longer than Micah and yet he chose to betray them and side with that psycho... it's unforgiveable. in the end he was just a greedy and narcissistic bastard
Uncle was 100% right when he said dutch wants to be an american king with his knights. We see in the epilogue when John took the money that dutch could have gotten a boat and took the gang away a long time ago, but he genuinely enjoyed being an outlaw.
I played the rdr2 first. And now I play rdr1. All I can say is that at the start I really thought that Dutch is just some really good leader, a bit psycho but still ge tries his best. Then ch.5 happend. Then 6. Then Epilogue Then I played rdr1........
Same I loved Dutch from the beginning especially in that one scene when Jack is kidnapped and he takes the whole gang to Braithwaite manor and burn the whole place down. Just because they kidnapped a boy.
1:25 it’s important to note later you can find this speech in the chapter 2 camp, he planned it, which puts it’s genuineness into serious question. He could have always been manipulating everyone, in fact how do you think he talked everyone out of robbing him and instead working for him? Amazing video though, hope it goes viral soon!
@justice_of_TH-cam I think the idea here is that Dutch sells himself as passionate and authentic, loyal to the cause until the end - but then he has to plan these things in advance to paint himself a certain way. If he really believed the things he was saying he shouldn't have to plan ahead. It just comes off as disingenuous
@@willoworm like i said, everyone makes notes, presidents, people atca celebration, talking in public, friends, even family members. Does that now mean they are manpiulating you? And dutch is spontaneous, he doesn't like to plan ahead. He wouldn't have the habit of making notes for a melefic plan
Yeah I remember hearing how they were gonna switch focus to multiplayer DLC for their games after GTA4 and being so crushed. Loved those DLCs, as well as undead nightmare.
It’s interesting to see how Dutch slowly devolves into this insane vision of his. Before, it’s so easy to get mesmerized by his speaking and his ways, you can feel the compassion he has for the gang, but later, you just don’t feel that warmth. It’s cold and calculated, he doesn’t say as much during interactions and he’s suspicious of everyone. It’s such a change and no one expects it because it’s such a slow burn.
The way I like to put is this. I vividly remember the first game back in 2010/2011 and HATED Dutch. I knew exactly how this game had to end and was still genuinely hurt and shocked at Dutch’s actions of betrayal as the game went on. So phenomenal
"I Tried. In The End... I Did." The last words from Arthur before he took his last breath even Arthur being like a brother to John and their final moments together makes me cry
A lot of people don't seem to notice this detail (I had a whole discussion over that fact, and they still wouldn't believe me). I personally think that Javier didn't understand the situation. He was away and spotted the Pinkertons, when he alerts the gang he sees Micah shooting Susan. Then, when Dutch asks who's on his side, of course Javier joins him, as he's loyal to the gang, but he's confused on the situation. He at first points to the side, then in the air and finally but slowly lowers his gun. He hesitates, because he sees Arthur as a good guy while also being loyal to Dutch. At last, when in the final scene he has his gun pointed at Arthur, Pinkertons show up, which forces everyone to abandon their 2v6 situation. I think in Chapter 2 when "Greeting" Javier, Arthur says something along the lines "You're probably the most loyal of us all" (might be under different circumstances, I can't remember). Of course, this could change but in Chapter 5 he is rescued by Dutch and Arthur, which only solidifies his loyalty to Dutch. Javier just chose wrong choices.
@@justice_of_TH-cam How can you miss it? Also, what argument? I just think it’s a neat detail that hit hard when I didn’t know what was going to happen. No need to get sour partner :)
It's a shame the only thing the Dutch ever understood from what Arthur told him is the line "John made it.. he's the only one" it seemed to break Dutch out of his facade for a second. But like every other grandiose narcissist, he can't deny the lies he's told himself for so long. It truly is a shame we couldn't save Dutch...
It’s crazy how well written both games are and for the most part how well done each character, even small ones, are. Each gang member feels relatively unique and each feel real and add an interesting dynamic
I do believe at one point Dutch was a good man, but being hunted by the Pinkertons, things going wrong, gang members dying, and being unwilling to step away from the life he built in the gang, he let his demons win.
I feel Dutch was delusional from the start. Right after episode 1 he's like a gambler on full tilt, obsessed by his last big score, bragging about his "plan", ranting about Tahiti, while he knew deep inside it was all crap and would not work. I assume the Blackwater disaster was too much for him and he couldnt take it...
@@deedeewinchur From the start of the game maybe, but I am not sure he was like that when he founded the gang. Afterall when you read about your first Banks heist, well Hosea Arthur and Dutch did gave some of the profit to poor family and orphanages, the gang keep making reference about they used to help people more before the event of Rdr2 . Dutch is a libertarian idealist. He think the poor are being oppressed by rich man, and the government, but as times went on, his fight was less and less for the poor and more about sticking up to the rich, and government. That's why he can't quit as long there is a rich man or a government standing, it is not about the money it is about winning, his ultimate big score is against the federal government afterall. Yeah sure he probably was always a bit delusional, but his priorities did change.
When you play the game and me personally, my ass actually thought Dutch here was struggling to be a good leader and Micah ruined it, but nah nah since black water with the lady, Dutch has been struggling to hide that bad energy that he has had since the dawn of time and Micah here just pushed to embrace it- and therefore we have the duo that ended the fucking gang.
I really did think Micah was behind everything that went wrong, but turns out he had only been ratting since Guarma. Everything before that was Dutch, and Arthur was right, he has been slipping for a long time.
@ARN4591 I dressed him up like that for chapter 4 and for whenever I go to Saint Denis. Otherwise I mostly keep him in an all black outfit and revert to the gunslinger outfit after meeting sister Calderón in chapter 6
Arthur disease getting worser throughout the game as if his boody is collapsing with the gang is heartbreaking. My first playthrough i started seeing that his eyes are looking weirder and redder , I'm still not sure if it was an actual red flag of what will come or if i imagine it but i went to a lot of places and tried showering and eating different things to fix it. I was never this connected to a game
The greatest betrayal is Rockstar abandoning this game’s potential as well as not fixing things like the glitchy scout jacket in single player and the stable glitches online.
@@PixelatedFlu I prefer the dark almost black Scout Jacket and when you pass through areas, shadows and buildings it can make the jacket look like glitchy velvet with underlying patterns, which would appear cool if it were an additional option instead of running all but the wolf scout jacket.
let's not forget that dutch DID take in sadie at the start of the game. An extra mouth to feed when the gang is that low has to say something abt his humanity. so i guess something did change him down the line
I noticed how when I went fishing with Dutch and Hosea after catching Anders Anderson how good Dutch was at making himself seem likable and for a second it made me forget how evil Dutch is and how Hosea would keep him in line
Another thing I noticed about Dutch he never contributed funds towards camp upgrades how he tells the gang "Everybody must earn their keep". Dutch never earned his keep he never donated to contributions.
Dutch left John to die multiple times, left Arthur to die multiple times, they were just good at avoiding death. Dutch never cared about the gang members, he cared about being a gang leader. Every recovery mission is ran by someone else, be it Tilly, John, Abigail or even Micah for irony sake. Susan gets killed in front of him and he doesn't even care, even the speech about "willingly" taking the dead place if he could its all talk, but as a player you only realize it when its the second time he gives the same speech but with no action to back it up. He was always that man, but in the past he was either checked by Hosea or not making so many mistakes back to back, then his ego forces him to double or nothing every time. Same fragile ego that needed a yes man so Micah played him like a fiddle.
I personally feel like Dutch was lying to himself just as much to everyone else. He convinced himself that he was a good person, because that was easier than looking inward and seeing the flaws he needed to fix for the gangs long term survival. I feel like the “I gave you all I had” scene was the one moment in the second game where his self image cracked and he started to see the darkness inside him. Sadly, he only fell further into that darkness without his pretty mask to keep him somewhat in check.
Scenes with music hit differently. Rawer. More tense. It’s so interesting to frame Dutch’s actions as a betrayal vs. Arthur and John betraying him. It really shows what a degenerate he was at the end of the game. Such a fascinating character, really, so well performed by Benjamin Byron Davis. It gives him so much life.
Arthur's "faith" was starting to waver even as soon as the failed Blackwater job. The killing of the old Spanish woman caused him to pay attention and it was the willingness to abandon John (twice) and finally when Dutch listened to Micah and decided to abandon Abigail that caused Arthur to finally snap.
Dude you found the golden ticket with these RDR2 videos, the story is great and you’re great at making it interesting even though I know what’s happened. Looking forward to seeing your growth bro!
Thank you! I appreciate that so much! Yeah I am excited and very thankful for what’s been happening lately. I am going to go hard on rdr2 for a while and hopefully branch out into some other stuff later on. Probably other games that are story heavy.
Dude you deserve more subs and views for sure! Your content, especially your Red Dead Redemption analyses so far are fantastic! I haven’t even gotten 1 minute into the video yet and your editing is spectacular I must say, keep up the good work and to all who read this I hope you have a great day!
Hey thank you so much! Really appreciate it! This one was fun to make. Crazy to see the arc of the characters. Appreciate the comment and hope you have a great day too
I feel that Dutch was only in it for the rush, because by the end, he had enough money to get everyone out. He just chose not to do that. His whole thing was fighting a changing world. His failure to adapt caused the gangs downfall. He is a true narcissistic character.
They walked out with about $20,000 after the Valentine bank heist. That right there would've been more than enough to charter a ship in 1899 AND give everyone a decent cut. During my first playthrough, I actually thought the story would have the gang actually head west while hiding from the bounty hunters, ending with a big shootout where Arthur, Dutch, and the rest of the gang's muscle would make a last stand while everyone else escaped.
I felt Dutch’s plan to make noise as a distraction was stupid, it attracted too much attention, they should have just left quietly and maybe Dutch could have kept his image and the crew together… For as long as Micah was able to hold off on ratting.
Dutch was definitely a charismatic leader and a teacher, who believed in equality and hated racism and industrialism/capitalism. Van Der Linde gang was so ahead of its time, compared to the others. Dutch took in the women (including the widow Mr.Adler), Javier (a mexican), Lenny (a young black man), Charles (half-black, half-native), Swanson (a drug addict reverend) etc. He had a great vision but also a bit of 'ego', which ultimately led to his downfall. His idea of a pure, better world was already gone with the rapid rise of civilization, industrialism and capitalism. As he kept getting bested by Cornwall, Pinkertons, Bronte etc., he began losing it, especially after Hosea's death. Imagine if Rockstar decided to fix his final line in RDR remaster. 'Arthur was right, John. Our time is passed.'
Dutch knew his dream was only an idealistic dream. He had no real practical vision. Dutch only took advantage of oppressed minorities cause they were easy to manipulate to do his dirty work. He took advantage of the Wapiti Indians and he manipulate other native Americans in RDR1 to do crimes for him.
You're right Dutch is the perfect bleeding heart liberal. All the altruism all the fake bravado pretending to be angry about injustices he won't lift a finger to change and in the end it turns out Dutch is about all equality because everyone in the world makes good cannon fodder. He disdains everyone equally.
That is the thing: "a great vision". A vague concept of a "pure world". That is how you manipulate people, let them use their imagination of a paradise that Dutch can't really explain because he doesn't know himself. He just demonize the system to gather people that couldn't find their place in it. As if modern world is only evil.
Dutch used the women as camouflage as a group of only men would be more threatening and more a much more obvious gang. They also had their roles to keep the camp running. He then took people at their lowest who had nowhere else to go and one good deed towards them would buy loyalty forever.
I don’t think they can ever top this story, the gang, the interactions you can just watch and play. Literally the camp always has something more and new every time you go back. You can see the seeds sown in camp interactions and you see how the story unfolds as it does. I legit don’t think you can find another story this interesting interactive and complex in a story that is heading into a singular direction. Your 1st play through you might just get the main beats, but if you come back every mission to the camp and crew, watch or talk to everyone….there is so much you can miss, outside if the camp in general THERE IS SO much you can miss in the game. Stuff you won’t even know or see unless you roll up on it. This will be Rockstars magnum opus, though I hope GTA6 defies expectations
0:15 this montage you edited and how the audio cuts at the end with Dutch’s dialogue quietly was so cinematic and well edited. Chefs kiss fr like holy shit
19:23 theres another ending where arthur goes back for the money in camp only to be stopped by micah, but this time he manages to blind micah in one eye before dying, so micah is wearing an eyepatch in the epilogue
8:28 this is one scene I think Dutch is somewhat justified in. The old woman was holding a knife to him and likely would have screamed for help had she not been paid. Dutch didn’t have a choice here
Yeah it’s hard to tell if she brought the knife out for defense or was threatening him. It did make me think about it while I was editing. Thanks for the comment
I love the story but the one thing that bothers me so much is how obvious Micah is as a rat but everyone seems too dumb to notice. It’s too much of a stretch for me sometimes. His character or at least the way others follow him is not believable to me. It pulls me out of the narrative at times
I never really got into the story. I just didn't like it. I guess for it to be a good story you would have to have some trust in both Dutch and Micah, but that never happened for me. Whenever dutch did something despicable, I was like "yeah no shit." I also didn't see Micah as a trustworthy companion, just some highly unstable guy. Most of the time I was just questioning why everybody followed along. Neither of them in my eyes were deserving of atleast some trust. So I didn't really see anything as a betrayal, just exactly what they would do.
@@JustARandomInternetUserHerehonestly same, I started to be suspicious of them both at chapter 2 (because Dutch was saying some big non sense sometimes, even though he seems charming at the beginning of the game) they were too obvious I liked to watch the downfall of the gang but at some point I found some parts too long, I was seriously wondering how many times the gang was going to blindly follow Dutch in his shitty ideas. They followed him for way too long and I think I have this opinion because the dev didn’t made him convincing enough with his dialogs. The dude was saying non-sense. He was charismatic but idk it wasn’t enough to really believe in his plans. I still kind of understand why the gang followed him (the family thing, loyalty) but I wish they would have had deeper reasons to continue to believe Dutch. It seemed unlogical at some point, the lack of questions characters had Because personnaly I never really believed in his shit and everytime he came up to Arthur with a plan I had to hold my head because I wanted to fall to the floor lol. I wanted to be free from this mad man I already had enough of it when the gang arrived at Rhodes (Dutch trying to rob two wealthy families even though his gang was closer to homeless people than smart criminals, bro is a big fool) so when the gang arrived to Angelo Bronte I was already done of this dude I liked the story it was still well written with good concepts but I wish I had been more surprised about the main antagonists. I wish Micah had been less obvious. Everyone being surprised he was a traitor really had me like « 🤨🤨🤨 ». I understand why the gang couldn’t believe it from Dutch but from Micah come on… I wish there would have been more dialogs about why they continued to follow him, something more than just loyalty and family
It killed me when Arthur said I gave you everything I had because he truly did but Micah was the snitch and talking too the Pinkertons the whole time he is the reason why a lot of them got killed
I really started to not like Dutch as soon as chapter 2. What did he actually do all day but lounge around and read? Even old man Hosea stood guard. Dutch has a god complex, his ego comes before everything. He often reminded me of a classic charisma ridden cult leader. Trying so hard to pass himself as authentic when he plans his speeches. Putting his wants (revenge) over the camps needs (safety). All it took for him to let the mask down was a rat he knew for a few months to stroke his ego. Everyone disliked and saw through Micah except Dutch. Arthur needed time to lie low in warm dry air. That was going to be his best bet against TB. But following his diagnosis he doesn’t get a minute of rest. Dutch thinks loyalty goes one way. As long as he’s receiving blind allegiance, it’s all good. The thought of returning that loyalty to the people he thinks are below him is insulting to him. Arthur, who Dutch groomed since childhood into his workhorse, is dropped soon after he starts questioning anything.
And unlike Arthur, John was in Blackwater and saw Dutch shoot Heidi McCourt in cold blood. That's why John constantly questions Dutch and that's why Dutch is obsessed with browbeat him into submission. Add also that John was outside the gang for 1 year, which gave him a new perspective and made him realize how obsessed Dutch is with living in the past.
Such fantastic work! However I’m surprised you neglected to touch on Dutch’s head injury sustained in the trolly accident in Saint Denis. I always wondered if that had some part to play in his mental decline, but I’m no doctor.
I remember one time arthur wrote into his journal after he met the inventor of the electric chair in saint denis (or something like that i dont quite remember) "I think this might not be the first time I am getting fooled by a smart man"
The first time i cried in this game was when arthur was shocked to see that dutch wasn't going to help save abigail. The helplessness on his face and in his voice broke me. But it was immediately wiped by sadie. "I'll ride with you arthur. You and me is all we need". Sadies's such a badass
"One more score" Reminds me of two things: Addiction and a song in Fallout 4's Nukaworld Raider Radio where the raider is singing about how he needs just one more score over and over. For all the pomp, style, and honor he paints over what he and his friends do, the truth is that they are, basically, raiders. They may occasionally do something kind for someone, but fundamentally they live off of theft, robbery, and other horrid crimes. Micah may be evil, but he's also the most honest of the bunch about what he is. The rest lie to themselves. Now I ain't saying that once one goes raider, one can't ever be a good person again, or that there isn't a good person inside there that still leads them towards honorable things, or that outlaws can't choose to go after rich people, etc. rather than picking on the poor. Rather, the mere fact that you are living this lifestyle guarantees you are doing evil things. Every time they rob a train, good people die in the process. Every time they rob a bank, innocents are put at risk or even hurt, and lawmen just doing their jobs often lose their lives or suffer serious injuries. And those are just the immediate victims. The true web of victims includes family, friends, and the community at large. There is no benevolent form of what they are doing, even if occasionally they do good things. Dutch is dishonest when he tries to present things otherwise. The right and honorable path is what Sadie and some others do at the end: putting their talents to use for good, productive ends. Sadie becomes a bounty hunter- a necessary service. One guy becomes a store owner. John at least tries to become a farmer and a family man. What does Dutch do? Dutch never learns. He never gives it up or even tries to. The closest he comes is when he's at the top of Mt. Hagen with John, Micah, and Sadie. And, honestly, I question his motives there.
I feel like once hosea died that’s when dutch completely lost it. If you think about it hosea was his best friend thats alot to cope with as well as being on the run and the mental tole of the responsibility of everyone in your gang’s safety
This was one of the most emotional games I had ever played. When Arthur's horse is dying and he thanks him for everything, I was in tears. When he tells John to go then stays behind to hold off the Pinkerton's alone, I was crying. When Dutch leaves Arthur to die alone on that ridge after everything he'd done for him and the gang, I lost it. The story was a beautifully crafted masterpiece.
just like sadie said the dutch that put a blinket over me and told me everything was going to be okay was not the same dutch at beavers hope the biggist influence in dutchs behavior i think was micha talking into his year and all the death theyve been through espetially hoseah
Dutch was an amazing character! Sure he wasnt a good person but the voice acting and writing really made me fond of him. He absolutely oozes charisma i dont care what anyone says
discord.gg/cAKqsvkR5F Join the discord and share screenshots!
“You see a man whose character changed. I see a man who got found out... for who he truly was.” - John Marston
The honest truth
It was Arthur Morgan play the game
@@alexishampton6356 I’ve replayed the game 3 times. John literally says it in a bounty hunting mission to Sadie in the Epilogue. Look it up.
oh okay i did finish the game once and i think i heard john say it so thank you my mink get mested up some times i have not played the hame in 5 months
i miss spelled some words it mind and game
“I gave you all I had…I did” I broke down at that in tears at that line…
100% I cried while editing this
Same
Mine was when Micha was insulting Arthur in front of Dutch when they were all riding together. It rang a chord of the same kind of belittling betrayal I've gone through with people I was loyal to (and probably shouldn't have been)
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Same. It changed me seeing that. It was so sad.
agent milton said it best: “Who made you the messiah to these lost souls you've led so horribly astray?” Dutch manipulated young lost souls with his god complex and smooth words, arthur and john being just children, to groom them into a life of crime and do his dirty work. the longer you think about it the more you realize how horrible of a person Dutch was. colm was bad too, but he never pretended to be otherwise, and his boys knew exactly what they meant to him: disposable workers. but dutch’s gang thought they were family and that he actually cared about them
💯 well said
Well he did raise one of the best gunslingers in the world so there’s that
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Yes. Dutch has this Charles Manson vibe.
Dutch did care about them ngl
They could’ve made this game a show, like literally. Each chapter being a season.
they should have in my opinion, it was honestly the best game I have ever played, in the end there was hardly any happy endings, that's what broke me. Arthur never deserved to die like that.
i think that chapter 1 would be to short for a season ig they should make a movie
I'm writing a 10 season tv show on Final Draft (just for me) that includes the events of both games they need to make it a show already lol
You sound ready to pay monthly 😂
Honestly, the story would translate to TV pretty smoothly with the right people behind it. It's been done successfully before with games like The Last of Us.
Dutch is the main villain, and i explain in my point of view why:
Dutch is egocentric and manipulative. Even if Micah wasn't the rat, the gang's fate would likely be the same, and that's because Micah knew how to feed Dutch's inflated ego. Arthur and Hosea put the well-being of the gang members ahead of their egos, while Dutch, even when he seemed to be altruistic, was only doing that to convince himself that he was some kind of misunderstood hero (like when Hosea say to not seek revenge against Bronte, and Dutch says that is not about revenge, only to contradict himself in the way to Lagras.).
Arthur and Charles were aware that they (the Van Der Linde gang) were just bandits, while Dutch fantasized that they were good rebels fighting the system, and justified her violence and lack of scruples behind a supposed need (Heidi McCourt and the old woman in Guarma, also Eagle Flies and the young wapiti men).
When confronted about his actions Dutch had no shame in lying, saying that it was necessary or that he had no choice (abandoning Arthur in the Oil Field, for example).
To what extent did he do this consciously or pathologically? It's hard to say. But he has always been a villain, the difference is that in RDR 1 (which I played even before 2) he no longer tries to maintain the fantasy that he is an American Robin Hood.
I actually pretty much agree. Micah is only the villain because Dutch allowed him to be.
great comment and thank you for writing
Your explanation hit the nail right on the head, which makes sense why Dutch was willing to turn on Arthur so quick. As long as everyone in the gang was willing to feed Dutch’s ego by believing in his narrative, he would continue to play the persona of an “altruistic hero”. As the gang slowly falls apart, the more Micah feeds Dutch’s ego and the more people in the gang started to see him for who he was really was and that his narrative was BS. The more Arthur turned his attention toward good deeds and less toward his loyalty toward Dutch, this explains why he was so willing to leave Arthur to die. The moment you wound a narcissist’s ego, they have absolutely no problem or hesitation hurting and abusing you. This is why Dutch apparently seems to “change” because he was losing loyalty. Dutch’s whole “hero” persona was a mask.
@@sydneyallen8820i think his “hero” persona was a mask to a point. I like to think of it as Hosea being the Angel on his shoulder while Micah is the Devil on his shoulder. With the gang effectively being hunted down and all of them on edge, it was to no surprise he leaned towards Micah towards the end. Micah was the only one being “loyal.” Banged up head from Dutch and it would make anyone stress about who is actually being loyal or not. Which made it easier for him to just side with the people who didn’t question him. At the end of chapter 6 we see Dutch’s regret on his face. Then on American Venom it is implied Dutch came for the same reason as John. It is implied and Dutch also shot Micah as well.
Ultimately:
Dutch was a bad man from the start but attempted to not be that bad man. Pretty much Hosea was his anchor (It is also shown in the story that Arthur preferred Hosea more than Dutch which could be another factor as to why he doubted Arthur a lot after his death). The more he lost the more it seemed like he couldn’t come back. So it seemed he just embraced that side of him in rdr1 due to the fact that he essentially had nothing to lose at that point. At that point it just seems like he was just trying to survive in a world that didn’t want him anymore. This was something along the lines Dutch said right before he died as well.
All in all I think there are multiple on top of multiple factors in the gangs decline. Dutch tried to fight back at the world he always did best, but, with technology on the rise and police forces being more prevalent….yea they stood no chance unless they played it smart. However, Dutch being Dutch, they needed one big getaway. Which could have worked if he played his cards right.
Back to him putting on/off a mask though, final conclusion:
With everything going to shit, on top of added stress, making mistakes on top of mistakes, stress on who is the rat, getting banged on the head, and getting played by Bronte. It’s kinda like Dutch said fuck it, let me trust the one person who isn’t doubting me. He’s one of the gang members and It’s not like Micah is giving invalid reasons to Dutch. All the things Micah feeds to Dutch makes sense, it just isn’t right. As dutch said, he’s trying to have the gang survive so he’s dropping all his morals to do so (Micah made it easier to do so). From Dutch’s POV, everyone is just doubting him. Which is valid. Micah is the only one providing a solution whether that is a morally good or bad. However one thing he did not account for was Micah being the rat. Or he did suspect him but lost sight of it during chapter 6 with all the stress. In chapter 2 theres a random encounter with Micah sucking up to Dutch. Dutch looks at Arthur and asks, “whats his game?”
Micah was a random dude he was 100% gonna snitch
You are wrong. Dutch went crazy
"all these years Dutch... For this snake?!"
"Men don't change, they only evolve more in what they truly are" -Rain Falls
True in both life and he game
false
@@dutchmilkvery VERY few people change buddy. Sucks to hear.
I promise you that Dutch was a master manipulater and the game underlines and foreshadows it a lot of time through the game
The saddest part to me was when Arthur begs Dutch to let John, the women and children leave. Dutch can’t get past the fact it’s John he asks for but misses the fact that Arthur even then is willing to die for Dutch but just wants the rest to have a chance to live. It’s gut wrenching
Arthur was begging for Dutch to think of their safety, but all Dutch saw was an enemy. He saw John as a rat sewing discontent in Arthur, pure delusion.
Dutch left arthur 3 time
1.When arthur got caught by odriscoll
2.when in ship to guarma
3.in oil field he literally left arthur that arthur know it
Why are you stupid?
Why ur comment havr a link
@@imtheprinceofallsaiyan it says .in, which makes it a link
1 - Probably didn't know where Arthur was, and if he did he would of rode into a trap headfirst
2 - Everyone thought Arthur was dead considering he literally went underwater
3 - Fuck Dutch
I mean to be fair on the ship he couldn’t really wait or else him and everyone else could die as well
Dutch is the main villain. Can't believe how many people defend him. ''but but he went crazy it's not his fault''. Dutch just showed his true colors, he was an ego maniac who only cared about money
That’s how good and complex of a character he is.
@@Spider-Complexion Exactly, he managed to fool so many people, including players :D
I don't really think he really cares about the money. For me it was just an excuse he said to the gang to keep them believe on him. The real dutch's goal is only to destroy this modern society.
When i said he don't care about the money we can see that, for example, he didn't go take the blackwater's money, he didn't make Bronte an hostage to earn money, he didn't take back the gold he gave to the old lady even after her death. Even at the end, when you choose to go take the money, Dutch didn't take the money and he just leave the camp.
@KeyUploadskinda like being drunk
You become kinda insane and show your true colors
Look at all the comments and didn't see not 1 mfers defending him but go ahead and tell us how you really feel
Arthur is literally the base of that meme:
“He was the best guy arooooooound”
“What about the people he murdered?”
“What muuuuuuuurdeeeeeer?”
If i would describe Arthur as a character, i would say that he was a good man who lived a bad life.
@@notyourdaddude1957 nerd
He never wanted to murder anyone, he did it because that's how Dutch raised him to be, Loyal. It was only when he went against Dutch's teachings that he actually did good, gave money when he didn't have much (in story money not in game money) or when he forgave the debts that Straus created. Arthur was always good he just didn't allow himself to do any good because of his loyalty to the gang
@@TheOriginalNyxie he said in a conversation with mary beth that he wanted to help folks, he is a good man forced to do bad things
@@coldheaven8007 exactly, you gotta be one dimensional to think other wise
“You gonna strangle me next?”
The moment when Arthur made me realize how cynical Dutch was
Even Trevor from GTA5 had much more honor than Dutch.
Don’t know if that’s a fair comparison because Trevor actually showed he was a loyal person. He was mean to enemies but he would risk his life for his friends. When I was playing the game I heard I would have to kill one of the characters and it was going to be Trevor however as the game went on I decided I’m not killing him and I chose option c every time.
@@Averagegunenthusiast IF you chose to kill Trevor , Michael will have no problem to kill his friend. If you decided to kill Michael, Trevor will refuse to help you. Trevor was chaotic but he was loyal.
A better comparison for Trevor, is Micah, both of them are trigger go lucky, shoot first ask questions later and thick skilled individuals preferring to take the extreme route before anything else unless overruled, except Trevor has been shown to be loyal, and despite his behaviour, clings on well to whoever he calls a friend, Micah on the other hand, slips away, makes a deal and has Dutch's mind and emotions in the palm of his hand. So aside from Micah being a rat, him and Trevor are more alike and Trevor and Dutch
@@RadekCrazy1 Michael is the true villain of GTA V, but people aren't ready for that conversation
@@Guilherme-qo9ye im not ready for that, i just cant convince myself that MICHEAL is a villian of GTA V. micheal.. micheal...
0:43 Arthur had Dutch’s back but Dutch didn’t have Arthur’s.
Heart breaking
th-cam.com/video/50uCrS4qsug/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ug3jneasYzgkwfv4
I always antagonize Dutch.. hate his guts.. more than Micah's.
me too. he knew the gang for far longer than Micah and yet he chose to betray them and side with that psycho... it's unforgiveable. in the end he was just a greedy and narcissistic bastard
I didn't hate Micah I liked him ngl
“John?.. insist?…” gives me chills everytime I hear it
Uncle was 100% right when he said dutch wants to be an american king with his knights.
We see in the epilogue when John took the money that dutch could have gotten a boat and took the gang away a long time ago, but he genuinely enjoyed being an outlaw.
Dutch 1899 : I didn't have a choice.
Dutch 1911: There's always a choice!
Is that the timw gap between both games?
Is that the time gap between both games?
Yes it goes chapters 1->6 1899, then Epilogue 1 ->1906 then Epilogue 2 -> 1907 then Rdr1 -> 1911
@@Mazii0_0 Thank you. The lore of this game is amazing
The most dangerous man in the battlefield is one who has nothing to lose- Sun Tzu
That's a great quote
I hadn’t said that shit-sun tzu
I knew nothing about the first game so i thought dutch was just cool leader dude at first
I honestly feel like both people who played the first game and those who didn’t get amazing yet unique experiences for playing RDR2
Play the first one if you haven’t yet!
I played the rdr2 first. And now I play rdr1. All I can say is that at the start I really thought that Dutch is just some really good leader, a bit psycho but still ge tries his best.
Then ch.5 happend.
Then 6.
Then Epilogue
Then I played rdr1........
Same
I loved Dutch from the beginning especially in that one scene when Jack is kidnapped and he takes the whole gang to Braithwaite manor and burn the whole place down. Just because they kidnapped a boy.
same! i was so happy and rly liked his leadership when things turned out good til chapter 3.
1:25 it’s important to note later you can find this speech in the chapter 2 camp, he planned it, which puts it’s genuineness into serious question. He could have always been manipulating everyone, in fact how do you think he talked everyone out of robbing him and instead working for him? Amazing video though, hope it goes viral soon!
Everyone makes notes
@justice_of_TH-cam I think the idea here is that Dutch sells himself as passionate and authentic, loyal to the cause until the end - but then he has to plan these things in advance to paint himself a certain way. If he really believed the things he was saying he shouldn't have to plan ahead. It just comes off as disingenuous
@@willoworm like i said, everyone makes notes, presidents, people atca celebration, talking in public, friends, even family members. Does that now mean they are manpiulating you?
And dutch is spontaneous, he doesn't like to plan ahead. He wouldn't have the habit of making notes for a melefic plan
@@justice_of_TH-cam Bruh he's talking about his friends dying
@@georgeterpsidis8143 yeah so?
The greatest betrayal is Rockstar not making any dlc for RDR2. Not undead, not blackwater, nothing😠
They pretty much forgot about It.
Damn you GTA Online and Rockstar
GTA online ruined this game
They actually fumbelled a Cowboys Vs. Aleins DLC 🤷♂️
Yeah I remember hearing how they were gonna switch focus to multiplayer DLC for their games after GTA4 and being so crushed. Loved those DLCs, as well as undead nightmare.
It’s interesting to see how Dutch slowly devolves into this insane vision of his. Before, it’s so easy to get mesmerized by his speaking and his ways, you can feel the compassion he has for the gang, but later, you just don’t feel that warmth. It’s cold and calculated, he doesn’t say as much during interactions and he’s suspicious of everyone. It’s such a change and no one expects it because it’s such a slow burn.
The way I like to put is this. I vividly remember the first game back in 2010/2011 and HATED Dutch. I knew exactly how this game had to end and was still genuinely hurt and shocked at Dutch’s actions of betrayal as the game went on. So phenomenal
@@Wolverine8721 Yeah, it’s an insane thing to watch and play, it makes you hate Dutch but feel so bad for who he is in Red Dead 1
"I Tried. In The End... I Did." The last words from Arthur before he took his last breath even Arthur being like a brother to John and their final moments together makes me cry
Seeing Javier not directly point his gun at Arthur and John is heard breaking on an entirely different level. Noticed this on my first play through :(
Javier took it the worst out of everyone, aside from dutch of course, and it shows in rdr1
A lot of people don't seem to notice this detail (I had a whole discussion over that fact, and they still wouldn't believe me). I personally think that Javier didn't understand the situation. He was away and spotted the Pinkertons, when he alerts the gang he sees Micah shooting Susan. Then, when Dutch asks who's on his side, of course Javier joins him, as he's loyal to the gang, but he's confused on the situation. He at first points to the side, then in the air and finally but slowly lowers his gun. He hesitates, because he sees Arthur as a good guy while also being loyal to Dutch. At last, when in the final scene he has his gun pointed at Arthur, Pinkertons show up, which forces everyone to abandon their 2v6 situation.
I think in Chapter 2 when "Greeting" Javier, Arthur says something along the lines "You're probably the most loyal of us all" (might be under different circumstances, I can't remember). Of course, this could change but in Chapter 5 he is rescued by Dutch and Arthur, which only solidifies his loyalty to Dutch.
Javier just chose wrong choices.
Yeah sure you did buddy. After seeing the "javier PoIntEd No GunNy" argument for the upteenth time. We can all believe you
@@apeasant8550i'd say bill took it worse
@@justice_of_TH-cam How can you miss it? Also, what argument? I just think it’s a neat detail that hit hard when I didn’t know what was going to happen. No need to get sour partner :)
It's a shame the only thing the Dutch ever understood from what Arthur told him is the line "John made it.. he's the only one" it seemed to break Dutch out of his facade for a second. But like every other grandiose narcissist, he can't deny the lies he's told himself for so long.
It truly is a shame we couldn't save Dutch...
It’s crazy how well written both games are and for the most part how well done each character, even small ones, are. Each gang member feels relatively unique and each feel real and add an interesting dynamic
I do believe at one point Dutch was a good man, but being hunted by the Pinkertons, things going wrong, gang members dying, and being unwilling to step away from the life he built in the gang, he let his demons win.
I feel Dutch was delusional from the start. Right after episode 1 he's like a gambler on full tilt, obsessed by his last big score, bragging about his "plan", ranting about Tahiti, while he knew deep inside it was all crap and would not work. I assume the Blackwater disaster was too much for him and he couldnt take it...
@@deedeewinchur like Arthur said Dutch was on a slow decline (correct if I’m wrong)
@@deedeewinchur From the start of the game maybe, but I am not sure he was like that when he founded the gang. Afterall when you read about your first Banks heist, well Hosea Arthur and Dutch did gave some of the profit to poor family and orphanages, the gang keep making reference about they used to help people more before the event of Rdr2 .
Dutch is a libertarian idealist. He think the poor are being oppressed by rich man, and the government, but as times went on, his fight was less and less for the poor and more about sticking up to the rich, and government. That's why he can't quit as long there is a rich man or a government standing, it is not about the money it is about winning, his ultimate big score is against the federal government afterall. Yeah sure he probably was always a bit delusional, but his priorities did change.
Nah... Someone like that is pathological
Nah you people are just ignorant. Dutch has always been evil and selfish
When you play the game and me personally, my ass actually thought Dutch here was struggling to be a good leader and Micah ruined it, but nah nah since black water with the lady, Dutch has been struggling to hide that bad energy that he has had since the dawn of time and Micah here just pushed to embrace it- and therefore we have the duo that ended the fucking gang.
I really did think Micah was behind everything that went wrong, but turns out he had only been ratting since Guarma. Everything before that was Dutch, and Arthur was right, he has been slipping for a long time.
@@jadencore every time he says have fate in me, it goes bad
I know this sounds kinda pointless but one of the things I allways love to see in this long videos about RDR2 is how people costumise Arthur
Honestly same
I dressed mine like a fookin Peaky Blinder and kept it that way through all my playthrough
@ARN4591 I dressed him up like that for chapter 4 and for whenever I go to Saint Denis. Otherwise I mostly keep him in an all black outfit and revert to the gunslinger outfit after meeting sister Calderón in chapter 6
Arthur disease getting worser throughout the game as if his boody is collapsing with the gang is heartbreaking. My first playthrough i started seeing that his eyes are looking weirder and redder , I'm still not sure if it was an actual red flag of what will come or if i imagine it but i went to a lot of places and tried showering and eating different things to fix it. I was never this connected to a game
The greatest betrayal is Rockstar abandoning this game’s potential as well as not fixing things like the glitchy scout jacket in single player and the stable glitches online.
How is the scout jacket glitchy?
This is actually the first I am hearing of it
Also John looking weird in the epilogue
or finishing different areas in new austin.
@@PixelatedFlu I prefer the dark almost black Scout Jacket and when you pass through areas, shadows and buildings it can make the jacket look like glitchy velvet with underlying patterns, which would appear cool if it were an additional option instead of running all but the wolf scout jacket.
And no heists. You can't tell me there was no train and bank robberies back then! L rockstar
Wow Dutch even manipulated me a little bruh😭😭😭
😂😂😂😂😂💯💀💀
Was literally thinking the same 😂😂😂
SAME BRO
Mehn the ending here was different from my own ending, Micah tab Arthur twice and he died while Dutch just walked away
let's not forget that dutch DID take in sadie at the start of the game. An extra mouth to feed when the gang is that low has to say something abt his humanity. so i guess something did change him down the line
I noticed how when I went fishing with Dutch and Hosea after catching Anders Anderson how good Dutch was at making himself seem likable and for a second it made me forget how evil Dutch is and how Hosea would keep him in line
Another thing I noticed about Dutch he never contributed funds towards camp upgrades how he tells the gang "Everybody must earn their keep". Dutch never earned his keep he never donated to contributions.
Dutch left John to die multiple times, left Arthur to die multiple times, they were just good at avoiding death.
Dutch never cared about the gang members, he cared about being a gang leader.
Every recovery mission is ran by someone else, be it Tilly, John, Abigail or even Micah for irony sake.
Susan gets killed in front of him and he doesn't even care, even the speech about "willingly" taking the dead place if he could its all talk, but as a player you only realize it when its the second time he gives the same speech but with no action to back it up.
He was always that man, but in the past he was either checked by Hosea or not making so many mistakes back to back, then his ego forces him to double or nothing every time. Same fragile ego that needed a yes man so Micah played him like a fiddle.
The quality behind these videos is rlly good. Keep up tha grind
Thank you very much!
Just yesterday i replayed and ended RDR2. Cried more then last time. It was like i lost a brother and i couldn't even take a breath
th-cam.com/video/50uCrS4qsug/w-d-xo.htmlsi=Ug3jneasYzgkwfv4
Fun fact you can find Dutch’s notes for his speech near a wagon in camp in chapter 2 further proving he never believed what he said
I personally feel like Dutch was lying to himself just as much to everyone else.
He convinced himself that he was a good person, because that was easier than looking inward and seeing the flaws he needed to fix for the gangs long term survival.
I feel like the “I gave you all I had” scene was the one moment in the second game where his self image cracked and he started to see the darkness inside him.
Sadly, he only fell further into that darkness without his pretty mask to keep him somewhat in check.
Crazy how dutch doesn't even flinch when Micah kills miss Grimshaw
She was loyal to the end.
This guy deserves millions of subscribers with this quality videos, keep up the good work man.
Thank you so much pengos I really appreciate it. Love making these videos.
actually was shocked to see this video wasn't viral. so well made, keep it up!
It IS viral? Wtf are you talking about?
@@justice_of_TH-cam it only had like 20k views at the time chill
@@jgibbyondatrack you and the video are 5 days old. So that's why i was confused
@@justice_of_TH-cam yeah
Scenes with music hit differently. Rawer. More tense.
It’s so interesting to frame Dutch’s actions as a betrayal vs. Arthur and John betraying him. It really shows what a degenerate he was at the end of the game. Such a fascinating character, really, so well performed by Benjamin Byron Davis. It gives him so much life.
dutch has been crazy from the very very start of the game with certain events just making him more crazy
Arthur's "faith" was starting to waver even as soon as the failed Blackwater job. The killing of the old Spanish woman caused him to pay attention and it was the willingness to abandon John (twice) and finally when Dutch listened to Micah and decided to abandon Abigail that caused Arthur to finally snap.
Dutch was like a Modern day US preacher. "I CAN TAKE YOU TO THE PROMISED LAND, WE JUST NEED MORE MONEY".
Dude you found the golden ticket with these RDR2 videos, the story is great and you’re great at making it interesting even though I know what’s happened. Looking forward to seeing your growth bro!
Thank you! I appreciate that so much! Yeah I am excited and very thankful for what’s been happening lately. I am going to go hard on rdr2 for a while and hopefully branch out into some other stuff later on. Probably other games that are story heavy.
@@PremoSaysThings can’t wait to see more man, also if you’re into it I think you would make fantastic resident evil videos. Good luck man
Just realized one of the people who didnt like the bank job, died at the bank job. Foreshadowing at its finest
Hosea wasn’t against it, he planned the whole thing
Dude you deserve more subs and views for sure! Your content, especially your Red Dead Redemption analyses so far are fantastic! I haven’t even gotten 1 minute into the video yet and your editing is spectacular I must say, keep up the good work and to all who read this I hope you have a great day!
Agreed
Fr
Hey thank you so much! Really appreciate it! This one was fun to make. Crazy to see the arc of the characters.
Appreciate the comment and hope you have a great day too
I feel that Dutch was only in it for the rush, because by the end, he had enough money to get everyone out. He just chose not to do that. His whole thing was fighting a changing world. His failure to adapt caused the gangs downfall. He is a true narcissistic character.
The whole Bronte thing happened because he was made feel small and insignificant. A direct attack on his ego.
They walked out with about $20,000 after the Valentine bank heist. That right there would've been more than enough to charter a ship in 1899 AND give everyone a decent cut. During my first playthrough, I actually thought the story would have the gang actually head west while hiding from the bounty hunters, ending with a big shootout where Arthur, Dutch, and the rest of the gang's muscle would make a last stand while everyone else escaped.
I felt Dutch’s plan to make noise as a distraction was stupid, it attracted too much attention, they should have just left quietly and maybe Dutch could have kept his image and the crew together… For as long as Micah was able to hold off on ratting.
I guess donating 12,385,000$ wasnt enough for him
Dutch: we need MONEY
Arthur with 12,385,000$ in his pocket:
Dutch was definitely a charismatic leader and a teacher, who believed in equality and hated racism and industrialism/capitalism. Van Der Linde gang was so ahead of its time, compared to the others. Dutch took in the women (including the widow Mr.Adler), Javier (a mexican), Lenny (a young black man), Charles (half-black, half-native), Swanson (a drug addict reverend) etc. He had a great vision but also a bit of 'ego', which ultimately led to his downfall. His idea of a pure, better world was already gone with the rapid rise of civilization, industrialism and capitalism. As he kept getting bested by Cornwall, Pinkertons, Bronte etc., he began losing it, especially after Hosea's death.
Imagine if Rockstar decided to fix his final line in RDR remaster.
'Arthur was right, John. Our time is passed.'
Dutch knew his dream was only an idealistic dream. He had no real practical vision.
Dutch only took advantage of oppressed minorities cause they were easy to manipulate to do his dirty work. He took advantage of the Wapiti Indians and he manipulate other native Americans in RDR1 to do crimes for him.
You're right Dutch is the perfect bleeding heart liberal. All the altruism all the fake bravado pretending to be angry about injustices he won't lift a finger to change and in the end it turns out Dutch is about all equality because everyone in the world makes good cannon fodder. He disdains everyone equally.
That is the thing: "a great vision". A vague concept of a "pure world". That is how you manipulate people, let them use their imagination of a paradise that Dutch can't really explain because he doesn't know himself. He just demonize the system to gather people that couldn't find their place in it. As if modern world is only evil.
Dutch used the women as camouflage as a group of only men would be more threatening and more a much more obvious gang. They also had their roles to keep the camp running. He then took people at their lowest who had nowhere else to go and one good deed towards them would buy loyalty forever.
Lmao he just used outcasts
I don’t think they can ever top this story, the gang, the interactions you can just watch and play. Literally the camp always has something more and new every time you go back. You can see the seeds sown in camp interactions and you see how the story unfolds as it does. I legit don’t think you can find another story this interesting interactive and complex in a story that is heading into a singular direction. Your 1st play through you might just get the main beats, but if you come back every mission to the camp and crew, watch or talk to everyone….there is so much you can miss, outside if the camp in general THERE IS SO much you can miss in the game. Stuff you won’t even know or see unless you roll up on it. This will be Rockstars magnum opus, though I hope GTA6 defies expectations
I don't get how micah get's away with Killing grimshaw
I was wondering that too while I was editing, Arthur had nothing to lose. It felt like he should have shot Micah right then
@@PremoSaysThings Then micah would shoot arthur and john would have to try and find his family by himself I think. I don't really know though
Frfr
He can’t keep getting away with this
Well, as great as the game is, nobody can deny it has a LOT of plotholes
I finished the game not too long ago and now today I'm gonna start playing it with my grandpa
These videos are such high quality and great entertainment - crazy that this channel hasn’t got more subs tbh.
Thanks so much! Really appreciate it.
0:15 this montage you edited and how the audio cuts at the end with Dutch’s dialogue quietly was so cinematic and well edited. Chefs kiss fr like holy shit
@@liltanooki7005 thank you 🙏🏽 thanks extra for noticing 😎
I swear i see yt videos with better production than most big budget movies. That intro was cold.
Why tf young Dutch looks like Lord Farquaad 💀
Lmfao tru
Taller and older 😂
19:23 theres another ending where arthur goes back for the money in camp only to be stopped by micah, but this time he manages to blind micah in one eye before dying, so micah is wearing an eyepatch in the epilogue
1:08 I find it heartwarming that Kieran gets to be front and center while Micah is off in the back corner behind more important people.
a game have never brought me to tears its truly a heart breaking story i love arthur so much
That 'Oh, Dutch' sums up everything. The pain in his voice...!
8:28 this is one scene I think Dutch is somewhat justified in. The old woman was holding a knife to him and likely would have screamed for help had she not been paid. Dutch didn’t have a choice here
Yeah it’s hard to tell if she brought the knife out for defense or was threatening him. It did make me think about it while I was editing. Thanks for the comment
@@PremoSaysThings I guess it’s more in the way he killed her. He strangled her when he could have probably just knocked her out
I seriously think Dutch was always like this but when he went crazy it showed better
Still have nightmares on "i have a plan"
I love the story but the one thing that bothers me so much is how obvious Micah is as a rat but everyone seems too dumb to notice. It’s too much of a stretch for me sometimes. His character or at least the way others follow him is not believable to me. It pulls me out of the narrative at times
I agree but Dutch didn’t see it and what he says goes. Micah was always telling Dutch what he wanted to hear and inflating his ego.
I never really got into the story. I just didn't like it. I guess for it to be a good story you would have to have some trust in both Dutch and Micah, but that never happened for me. Whenever dutch did something despicable, I was like "yeah no shit." I also didn't see Micah as a trustworthy companion, just some highly unstable guy. Most of the time I was just questioning why everybody followed along. Neither of them in my eyes were deserving of atleast some trust. So I didn't really see anything as a betrayal, just exactly what they would do.
@@JustARandomInternetUserHerehonestly same, I started to be suspicious of them both at chapter 2 (because Dutch was saying some big non sense sometimes, even though he seems charming at the beginning of the game) they were too obvious
I liked to watch the downfall of the gang but at some point I found some parts too long, I was seriously wondering how many times the gang was going to blindly follow Dutch in his shitty ideas. They followed him for way too long and I think I have this opinion because the dev didn’t made him convincing enough with his dialogs. The dude was saying non-sense. He was charismatic but idk it wasn’t enough to really believe in his plans. I still kind of understand why the gang followed him (the family thing, loyalty) but I wish they would have had deeper reasons to continue to believe Dutch. It seemed unlogical at some point, the lack of questions characters had
Because personnaly I never really believed in his shit and everytime he came up to Arthur with a plan I had to hold my head because I wanted to fall to the floor lol. I wanted to be free from this mad man
I already had enough of it when the gang arrived at Rhodes (Dutch trying to rob two wealthy families even though his gang was closer to homeless people than smart criminals, bro is a big fool) so when the gang arrived to Angelo Bronte I was already done of this dude
I liked the story it was still well written with good concepts but I wish I had been more surprised about the main antagonists. I wish Micah had been less obvious. Everyone being surprised he was a traitor really had me like « 🤨🤨🤨 ». I understand why the gang couldn’t believe it from Dutch but from Micah come on…
I wish there would have been more dialogs about why they continued to follow him, something more than just loyalty and family
4:27 might be the toughest line in the game
It killed me when Arthur said I gave you everything I had because he truly did but Micah was the snitch and talking too the Pinkertons the whole time he is the reason why a lot of them got killed
Great video💯 Love your narration and format!👍👍👍
Thanks! I really appreciate that!
Great video cowboah
I hope you‘re getting with this to tahiti🤠
Thanks partner, I got a plan
@@PremoSaysThings I will always have your back, Dutch 👍
Where the hell is Tahiti, who lives there?
Dutch: Tahitians, I think
Had me dying 😂
I really started to not like Dutch as soon as chapter 2. What did he actually do all day but lounge around and read? Even old man Hosea stood guard. Dutch has a god complex, his ego comes before everything. He often reminded me of a classic charisma ridden cult leader. Trying so hard to pass himself as authentic when he plans his speeches. Putting his wants (revenge) over the camps needs (safety). All it took for him to let the mask down was a rat he knew for a few months to stroke his ego. Everyone disliked and saw through Micah except Dutch. Arthur needed time to lie low in warm dry air. That was going to be his best bet against TB. But following his diagnosis he doesn’t get a minute of rest.
Dutch thinks loyalty goes one way. As long as he’s receiving blind allegiance, it’s all good. The thought of returning that loyalty to the people he thinks are below him is insulting to him. Arthur, who Dutch groomed since childhood into his workhorse, is dropped soon after he starts questioning anything.
And unlike Arthur, John was in Blackwater and saw Dutch shoot Heidi McCourt in cold blood. That's why John constantly questions Dutch and that's why Dutch is obsessed with browbeat him into submission. Add also that John was outside the gang for 1 year, which gave him a new perspective and made him realize how obsessed Dutch is with living in the past.
"It's like he became who he really is "
-Arthur Morgan
Such fantastic work! However I’m surprised you neglected to touch on Dutch’s head injury sustained in the trolly accident in Saint Denis. I always wondered if that had some part to play in his mental decline, but I’m no doctor.
I should have and I was going to but I think I forgot but thank you very much
@@PremoSaysThings This was such a well made video and you just earned another subscriber. Keep up the good work!
I remember one time arthur wrote into his journal after he met the inventor of the electric chair in saint denis (or something like that i dont quite remember)
"I think this might not be the first time I am getting fooled by a smart man"
“the greatest betrayal in gaming history” excuse me sir general shepherd would like a word
The first time i cried in this game was when arthur was shocked to see that dutch wasn't going to help save abigail. The helplessness on his face and in his voice broke me. But it was immediately wiped by sadie. "I'll ride with you arthur. You and me is all we need". Sadies's such a badass
what a great game this is. it’ll be a long time until amy game including rockstar’s comes remotely close to this writing.
So true. I hope we get to see how Dutch formed the gang some day
"One more score"
Reminds me of two things: Addiction and a song in Fallout 4's Nukaworld Raider Radio where the raider is singing about how he needs just one more score over and over.
For all the pomp, style, and honor he paints over what he and his friends do, the truth is that they are, basically, raiders. They may occasionally do something kind for someone, but fundamentally they live off of theft, robbery, and other horrid crimes. Micah may be evil, but he's also the most honest of the bunch about what he is. The rest lie to themselves.
Now I ain't saying that once one goes raider, one can't ever be a good person again, or that there isn't a good person inside there that still leads them towards honorable things, or that outlaws can't choose to go after rich people, etc. rather than picking on the poor. Rather, the mere fact that you are living this lifestyle guarantees you are doing evil things. Every time they rob a train, good people die in the process. Every time they rob a bank, innocents are put at risk or even hurt, and lawmen just doing their jobs often lose their lives or suffer serious injuries. And those are just the immediate victims. The true web of victims includes family, friends, and the community at large. There is no benevolent form of what they are doing, even if occasionally they do good things. Dutch is dishonest when he tries to present things otherwise.
The right and honorable path is what Sadie and some others do at the end: putting their talents to use for good, productive ends. Sadie becomes a bounty hunter- a necessary service. One guy becomes a store owner. John at least tries to become a farmer and a family man. What does Dutch do? Dutch never learns. He never gives it up or even tries to. The closest he comes is when he's at the top of Mt. Hagen with John, Micah, and Sadie. And, honestly, I question his motives there.
another great rdr2 vid
Thanks! Appreciate it
idk why but i didnt cry at the end (the one where arthur looks at the setting sun) but i did get hella goosebumps
I feel like once hosea died that’s when dutch completely lost it. If you think about it hosea was his best friend thats alot to cope with as well as being on the run and the mental tole of the responsibility of everyone in your gang’s safety
This was one of the most emotional games I had ever played. When Arthur's horse is dying and he thanks him for everything, I was in tears. When he tells John to go then stays behind to hold off the Pinkerton's alone, I was crying. When Dutch leaves Arthur to die alone on that ridge after everything he'd done for him and the gang, I lost it. The story was a beautifully crafted masterpiece.
Top 10 anime betrayals
just like sadie said the dutch that put a blinket over me and told me everything was going to be okay was not the same dutch at beavers hope the biggist influence in dutchs behavior i think was micha talking into his year and all the death theyve been through espetially hoseah
Harvesting mangoes ❤
🥭🫡🤝
Dutch was an amazing character! Sure he wasnt a good person but the voice acting and writing really made me fond of him. He absolutely oozes charisma i dont care what anyone says
Pop off boy, loving these videos ❤
Thank you friend! I really appreciate it!
The game peaked at the one boat scene, then everything went to hell.
what the heck young dutch looks like steven seagal at 5:15
I thought I was watching a million subscriber channel, but no. The quality of this is just amazing!
Amazing video ❤
Thank you very much nerdy stuff!
“Your following the wrong Star”
Arthur deserved better.
So true
the end made me cry again...