Denial and Dissociation: 10 things to consider
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video from The CTAD Clinic, Dr Mike Lloyd (Clinic Director) discusses how denial within dissociation can affect many aspects of life. 10 points are considered, from why denial is present to what to do with it, within conditions such as Other Specified Dissociative Disorder (OSDD) or Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID)
#otherspecifieddissociativedisorder #osdd #dissociativeidentitydisorder #did #therapy #dissociation #denial
YES!!! Being a from generation X - the whole “false memory” movement had established itself. In 1994 I admonish my overactive imagination, because MY CHILDHOOD WAS PERFECT! I WAS A LUCKY KID- I just needed to be a better daughter -- No abuse.
I remember writing in my diary in my early 20’s “Do I make up the voices in my head, or do they speak on their own?” Not realizing that my imaginary conversations ( internal and external) weren’t a thing everyone did. Fast forward 20+ years - even with my therapist I find myself going back and forth on “I’m making this up”… Even in the face of the very obvious. To help dispel my denial VERY ugly scar to remind me that- yes, that shit happened(and more)….((But I’m very LUCKY to I’ve such an undeniable piece of physical evidence) But even then- who wants to believe that their childhood was so fucked up…. Cause bro, that shit hurts.
It makes no sense the depravity it took to make us this way… and at the same time- I am so grateful to how my mind managed some fucked up shit (of which I can intellectually understand- but I can’t grok it yet)…
Hi fellow GenXer!
I sympathize with the denial of the wildly obvious! Our therapist has been very helpful with reminding us that yes, DID is real and yes, we have it. She's literally had other parts talk with her to express that I (host) go easier on myself and stop worrying about doubting the very experience that is being demonstrated as true while these alters are talking to our therapist!! 😅
Living a life like nothing happened. Taking care of everyone that caused the abuse like a proud daughter would. It wasn’t until they ALL passed away, that I was once again thrown into the pit of hell in which I lived as a child and others started coming to the surface. Denial, denial, denial. 6 yrs of therapy and I’m just beginning to be able to come to terms with them (aka alters).
Yes, that's the theme of my story also. It all hit the fan for me once my mother died. Now they (alters) are out in full force because they feel safe now that she is gone and I have moved away from the other abusers. I too have only just been diagnosed (56 years old) and have spent the past few years coming to terms with the diagnosis and what that means. Nice to meet you here on you tube, it is amazing to know we are not alone in this 💜
My story too. We can do it, this shift, shift in awareness. To me it is an exchange of information that has been missing. I call this info Keys. The keys I've been looking for to understand my life. Keys and lock combinations have always been in my dreams, now I know why. @@Lenergyiskey358
Thank you for another informative and respectful video. It is new to me to see self blame as part of denial. I knew that I used guilt to keep the idea of me being in control and therefore responsible for the actions of grown ups and caretakers. But it makes a lot of sense
I convinced myself that I wasn’t doing things and that everyone else was lying.
I didn’t want to think about having DID. I ran from it for years.
The end result was it came crashing down. Those protective delusions are powerful.
It’s been incredibly hard and utterly invalidating being told my whole life that nothing happened to me and therefore I am the problem, when in reality my mother is in denial about the trauma and neglect that my brother and I endured at the hands of her and my father. I have seen her forget distressing events that we both witnessed as adults and have only just become to realise she likely has did. While I have empathy for her and her horrible childhood , denial has been the indestructible wall that stands between us and it has divided the family , because to them I am and always will be the problem. It’s easier to believe a lie , and the truth hurts.
This is a battle/war that comes and goes. Twenty years later and at times this still comes up. Less frightening these days though. Thank you.
I'm in the "yeah something happened but it's not that bad" place currently ... I know logically that makes no sense.. but DID just seems like a giant over-reaction to what happened to me it "wasn't bad enough" .. or whatever .. so annoying I hate knowing one thing but then activley thinking the other
So relate
I have a part whose job it is to be convinced that there isn't any problem, that it is not that bad anyway, and that everything is her own fault/responsibility because she is just wrong, bad and lazy. I am starting to see why we needed that part to survive and to get things done. I'll ask my therapist to suggest to her to watch this video, in the hope that one day she will be able to acknowledge that I and the other parts exist. I so wish we could communicate directly...
Thanks this was helpful. Some days I remember everything. Other days it's like nothing ever happened. It's tough. Thanks for your videos
Glad it helped!
It can take a degree of financial independence and confidence as an independent adult to be able to see the level of childhood trauma you experienced. At 18, I could never have been able to tolerate knowing what I know now. Once I had a career and confidence that I could survive as an adult, separate from my family, I was able to recall and see the horror. Not before. My mind protected me.
It is amazing how it does that.
@@thectadclinic My current therapist told me that if I had not been able to develop DID that I would have become an alcoholic or an IV drug user very early on to block knowing my actual life. Before adulthood.
We don’t dissociate for no good reason - yup - so wish was “normal” - it stinks. God Almighry please let it come out 🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻
I find for me it is better to explore my own life by myself because therapists have suggested heavily that bad things have happened to me which in itself is very hurtful when I have zero memories. I have to make sense of my chaotic life on my own because I know I'll be safe and I'll know when it's too much. Denial can be a good thing and shouldn't be messed with. I want to make it out of this life wanting to live and being safe with my needs met. No therapist is going to do that for me or be there when everything is falling apart. I have to survive
The therapists need to back off from suggesting this and work with you to figure out any amnesia with good support.
"I don't remember ", "I apologize" are phrases I use constantly..."I am sorry I don't remember "..."you are right, I am wrong, I'm sorry"...I dont deny anything anymore, I did it, I said it or my fault is my reply. Even if I don't remember, it doesn't matter ...my body, my fault...the worse part of my life with DID, is apologizing for things I don't remember just to avoid more trauma...
Oh yes. Denial is a very strong wall to break. I prefer thinking that I'm psychotic than accepting I have DID and my parents were horrible. Despite two did diagnosis, denial and self blame are still strong. Hope the therapy will help
There is a pain - so utter -
It swallows substance up -
Then covers the Abyss with Trance -
So Memory can step
Around - across - upon it -
As one within a Swoon -
Goes safely - where an open eye -
Would drop Him - Bone by Bone --
-Emily Dickinson
Exactly. Self-blame and shame 😩💔🥲
I’m the host of an OSDD system. I was just having a heavy denial episode when this popped up in my recommended.
I’m both happy it did because it helped but also terrified because is TH-cam now living in my head????
If you look up OSDD or DID content, or watch content similar to it, you may be recommended this stuff.
Also, rest assured: you clicked on it, and maybe other stuff as well before. There are many other recommendations that don't apply to you. It's just going off of patterns. Nothing to worry about, imo. ❤
@@riverjacobs2023 thank you for this kind reply- but my original comment about being “terrified” was definitely more of a joke about the video popping up with such perfect timing! You’re really sweet though :)
30 years ago, my therapist told me my memories were false. I had to "learn" how to understand that. But the feeling of "something is not right" has been strong and I've built an even harder wall of denial. Now I'm exhausted and perhaps a little bitter also, about that. I have lived a life that was never my life, until now when I dig into these dissociative experiences of mine. I'm glad to recognize I have did, it explains a lot. But I'm sad about all theese years of oppression of my self. Sort of.
Always send people (plural and otherwise) to your site Dr. Lloyd, for authentic, easy to understand, experienced, expert, safe care. Denial remains long after diagnosis - formidable and dysregulating but a 'part' of the overall structure of many systems. Thanks as always and "take great care" - g (seans)
Denial is so exhausting. It does get better, and seems to have an ebb and flow to it. It's horrible when you first get diagnosed and the system goes into over-drive. I drove my family crazy with "What if I'm faking, but forgot I'm faking?" It's esp hard when you don't have a single full memory of abuse, just bits and pieces. A clever thing I was asked by a family member really helped. He said "when the denial gets really bad, ask yourself if nothing bad happened, then what's there to deny?" True.
Great video, as always.
Your videos over time have been greatly helpful in my development, Dr Mike! I'm proud to share that our system has finally become open in an in-persin therapy setting as of this week!🎉 As host, I have held us to the standard of accountability and growth ❤ We have come a long way in healing. 😊
Good for you!!
Congratulations - choked me up - best of luck - kind regards, g (seans)
Yes, so proud of you host ! Good job.❤
I know this is a video I needed to see because I had the same feeling of being called out (gently, in a helpful way-nothing bad) that I get in therapy. I feel seen. I don’t like it, lol.
Denial is such a battle sometimes, and it’s one that requires such a careful approach to not make it worse. What’s been helpful for me recently is leaning in to the maybes. Maybe the years of missing memory, intense physical responses to mundane things, and all the “I have no memory of that, but I see the evidence and I believe you”s mean something. Maybe even if I don’t have certain memories or I lack emotions from what memories I do have, they were still powerful then and affected me on a deeper level. Maybe I’m not broken, hard things happened, I don’t have all the answers (nor do I have to), and I can still move toward a better life despite that.
It feels silly to see the evidence and just say maybe, but the maybes allow for the maybe nots. It makes space to consider a different narrative without shutting down the protective existing one. Denial is powerful and challenging, and I’m grateful for this video for deepening my understanding of the process and myself. Thank you as always!
Can you map out the spectrum of dissociation from Bpd to DId?
😊❤ nice to see you well.
It also makes these things worse when outside sources deny them as well or gaslight individuals into thinking their experiences are invalid. Leads to feelings of confusion and disconnect within themselves.
Thank you for being a source of valid and trustworthy information. We've been diagnosed with OSDD within the past 2 months. Your information helped/helps a ton.
All is better, thank you!
What if as a host, you *want* to remember and you *want* the alters to come forth and to build relationships with them, but you still have extreme doubt/denial?
In my opinion, building relationships with the alters is the MOST important thing to getting access to memories
Even then, in my experience, they may not be forthcoming with them and you have to practice acceptance and patience
@@Rat_Queen86 What happens when it’s been well over a year and the alters absolutely do not want a relationship with you and will refuse to even talk to you anymore 😅
We have an anti-denial list (including our diagnosis) the we go over at least once a week to try and fight the denial before it occurs.
That sounds brilliant!
Try reviewing it daily. Maybe hourly.
What a great idea, thank you. Starting this today. We can do it !!❤️
@@autumnsummers6823: Yes, you can. If you add a list of how acceptance can improve your current life, that multiplies the benefits.
🌷 Can you make a video on this example: she is upstairs and makes a to do list for the day in an agenda ( but finds herself thinking "My writing is so awkward and different"), then goes downstairs with the agenda and opens it to check the list, ... but their is no list at all. I hope you find the time to make a video on this subject. Thank you for the good word and keep good health 🌷
This is probally the clinics is best video.
Thank you so much!!
This was super helpful! Thank you so much for making these videos.
I have a question you may be able to illuminate on. Basically, I watched your videos about pain and somatoform symptoms etc. I have chronic pain from a condition that causes structural damage to my body over time. I have adapted to dissociate from the pain much of the time, and I have a "pain holder" who is either rejected or accepted by various other parts. I've tried looking into this phenomenon to see if it's common among people with non-psychogenic pain for whom their own pain can be a dissociation trigger. My therapist says that ti's important to approach trauma work from a place of physical safety, so we're exploring what that looks like when I it's not possible to be physically safe from the state of my own body due to my disability.
Anyway, all searches turn up chronic psychogenic pain, which makes sense! Those symptoms are valid and I'm not even saying I definitely don't experience them. But the experience of dissociating because I dislocated a joint again, or because I found out I have to get yet another MRI to check on the progression of my condition, etc. is quite a different experience and the approach to treatment is different. Also, I think many people with "invisible" genetic illnesses such as mine will have encountered the stigma of being misdiagnosed or dismissed as experiencing conversion disorder or malingering, leading to medical trauma and a delay in treatment. It can make us hesitate to engage in the nuance of the topic.
For me, I was shocked to find myself triggered and very emotional during the classic body-scan, progressive relaxation... It was so distressing I sobbed during the exercise at work. Things like this make me wish there was more resources available for disabled chronic pain havers like me who also dissociate to survive.
To end on a happy note, I have a clear visualization at times, of some of my other parts comforting my pain holder. They're learning to take care of him, support him, and show gratitude for the important job he does for the system. It's a relief to see. ❤
Thank you so much for sharing. I really needed a visual of my pain holder being comforted. Your comment has made a very positive and profound much needed change for me.
Dr. Mike. How and what do you need to have in place in order to facilitate opening up and healing ???
Hi Kelly, a solid, experienced therapist, time, patience, understanding and eventually trust. That helps things at least to get going.
I would say a therapist who understands trauma and conditions like DID. A good therapist I should add. As well as time.
You need to make time to talk to your team or alters. My team got pissed when they were ignored and it caused me to disassociate more.
You have to feel safe
Thank you once again!
No worries!
Thank you !!!!!!!
First have to say i didnt watch the video, i just cant watch any video about this subjects anymore.
But its great you share these in a world were they dont want to see the indepths of this and dont understand did or all traumarelated conditions. Sorry about my English is getting worse.
But i think denial isnt just something you can choose to turn of.
At first its the whole essence of this wich made people able to survive, but most of all the abusers dinied the abuse, acted like nothing happend.. everytime again and again
And if on top of when they take controle with how others see you so when you turn for help you wont get believed..
So that is making it even more difficult and not helping at all.
When i got the diagnose on the off age at 54 they had the vision of giving the diagnose, give psycho education to be aware and then ..ratatata.. healing wil follow.
That only made things even more worse for my system and we are in a worse place where we ever were before..
And no help for that.
Thanks a lot, doctor, once again! -Caretaker of a System
Most welcome!
Thank you for sharing this video, it seems to have come at the right time for me and I now realise my reactions after last weeks therapy sessions are because of denial. What do you do when it happens because you have felt dissociated feelings? I’m in a self harm cycle I can’t get out of and trying to talk about it in therapy is triggering more things to happen and I’ve got scared and gone into denial.
Thank you for years, upon years of research and education! ❤
I know living a horrific life like myself, but having a complete blank space with memory, even daily, with diagnosed DID/CPTSD/ADHD/GAD&PD/MDD and that’s all I can recall 😅 it’s hard to find good short proper research.
Besides a few, like Multiplicity and me ect. ❤ shout out to Jess
All I can say is I appreciate so so much, the dedication for researched based educational videos. Hard to find proper DID content. (Not for me, I’m in treatment.. more so to share to ppl who are in my life to share)
This is a great discussion!! I thought do this the other day.. listening to a podcast, a lady with DID who committed a crime… and in that podcast her major trauma was something I wouldn’t have thought would be. It re reminded me that everyone’s traumas are very unique to the person. No one is the same.
Very dissociative I’m sorry, if this doesn’t make sense. But I applaud your work! Keep up the hard work. We thank you. 🙏
Lastly, I’m sorry this is long.. can we ask for a video suggestion?
Even in psychology and getting loads of different treatments for the DID. No one in my areas of Aust, know about why my system is both covert and overt. It switches between both over a few years. Every couple years it changes. Q: Do you know why? Why could this happen. As a system in therapy especially?
Muchly appreciate you reading this ❤
Hi,
Mine is both also.
Thank you for the post, and the appreciation. Always good to get video suggestions!
@@thectadclinic any time. We appreciate your work! Can’t be easy juggling everything you do, so very much appreciated from the other side of the world!
@@Lenergyiskey358 interesting!!
I know I’m not alone but it’s just not spoken about. I think bc it’s a bit atypically for DID? correct me if wrong anyone, But, I’ve met a lot of systems now over decade of having this outwards, been in a bunch of treatments and psychs ect, even my current AMAZING ONE, can’t ever understand it. I’ve also met or spoken to several systems… no one can explain the WHY? lol.
It’s not mentioned much in any research I’ve come across. Like is it even in the dsm5? So many questions. No answrrs.
It’s definitely Not like the knowledge of covert OR overt at the least... Not for those like us whom have overlaps.
I used to think stress or traumas, but it’s not it just shifts, Like an ever rotating puzzle. Makes it so hard to get hold of one therapy method. We have to do a vase multitude of different therapies.
We are C&O & somehow polyfragmented too.
So safe to say years into therapy and we ain’t touched the surface of anything hahaha I laugh but it’s annoying!
Makes life debilitating for us.
Hope yours isn’t as awful as our experiences
How do you go about accepting/living with the alters all having different realities and truths.
Eg 1 9 yr old alter who idolizes a parent and the rest of the group 9and another whole system with whom we are not really co-con for safety reasons) who are sure he was actually an abusers too or at least complicit...
Is there anything wrong with me as a host acting as an intermediary and aksing that the others just don't go at eachother (in this case a trauma holder who used to be a persecutor (and is 17sh) up against a 9yr old who apparently doesn't hold any trauma other than to adore our father.) I ask that they (all ppl in every system) leave the entire subject alone and we all accept eachothers realitys are different. There's no need to go delving into trauma (to do so i'm absolutely sure would destabilise to the point of breaking), and we can just all exist knowing that dichotomy is ok and shades of grey exist (something i'm just now learning at age 37 lol)... THis has been the status quo but i do often get punched in the face with denial that ANY of it's real LOLOLOL. I don't ever deny the others are there but i can very very easily slip into the denial of all subsequent perps than who i *as the host and i think an anp* know about...lolol Isn't denial fun lol Any thoughts welcome
What serendipitous timing! Denial has been a recurring theme as we've pursued somatic experiencing therapy for the last 4 months; the fact that this therapy has already proven its efficacy with regaining parts' attachment to our respective memories and finally processing some long held body trauma does help battle the denial! 😁
@ Dr. Lloyd: would you consider emotional amnesia (knowing the semantic facts about traumatic events but having no emotional connection to them) as also representative of denial?
Excellent video as always, thank you and those who help you put them together!!
Such amnesia seems like a built in protective denial.
Hello, I tried to reach out to the clinic via email and it gave me an error message (I am in the is). I know there is a waiting list but would you treat a us citizen if they paid out of pocket?
We can’t because of US licensing laws. The therapist has to be licensed in the State you live in, so it’s not possible. We have tried to figure it out but it isn’t possible at the moment.
@@thectadclinic what if I moved temporarily to your area? I have the means and I am desperate at this point and have been in therapy for DID for 11years, but it’s so hard to find someone who is experienced
❤❤❤
I have a question - when it comes to alters who are acting out ; say I have morals and standards I prefer to live my life by and my alters do not agree or at least are acting in ways that go against my morals- can I control that in some way, or is it really up to waiting it out in the therapeutic process for them to see things differently on their own? Likely the risky behavior is linked to trauma but the alters say they just like to be that way .
I’m an addiction counselor who always tells my clients that they don’t “just like using” there’s usually a deeper trauma or mental health issue but with my alters is it possible they are fragmented parts that just like doing these impulsive/risky behaviors? Kind of two questions 😅
That is a tough one to respond to. I can only speak from my own experience. I have had a couple of blackouts in the past to do with promiscuous behaviours. I acted out of character to those around me, but I now know that they were alters coming through. So how I am dealing with it is even if they do not want to hear me, I am figuring out what the reason for their behaviour is. There is, like drug or other addictions, a pay off (as you probably know already given your work). Find out from your alters what that is and work with them that way?
Again, I am only speaking from my perspective, many of the alters were developed at young (er) ages and are in some sense stuck in that age so, a teenager when confronted with these things would of course say "I just like being like that", a perfectly natural response from a teenager or young person who of course, does not have the insight of maturity. Therefore, work on that level with them. I find that my child alters are exactly that, children. Trying to relate to them as an adult is very difficult. Many times, it is a matter of relating on their level and going from there.
This is of course just a suggestion and should not be seen as any kind of therapeutic advise. I am just sharing how I seem to be approaching things. Good luck with it 🤗
Thank you Dr Mike as always a really warm human video.
I’ve been trying to control/ deny an alter in particular. He’s an adult male that hurts me and wants me dead.
I wonder what his purpose is if he wants me dead? Yet I’m still here? Physical harmed by him but still alive.
If he’s here to protect me am I wrong to keep denying him and telling him to **** *** 🤔
I’m not in therapy as yet as in my area it’s still a financial NHS unmet need, that’s why your videos and people’s responses are so crucial.
Thank you all 💐
Not a therapist, but as someone who's done a lot of IFS therapy as a client, you might try asking the part some IFS questions, such as 1. What are you afraid might happen if you stop doing what you're doing? 2. What are you hoping will happen if you continue doing what you're doing? I've found that trying to shut up or push away parts does not help them relax and heal, whereas curiosity and compassion toward them can ❤ Wishing you the best of luck
@@magnoliaskogen Thank you I will definitely try this xx
I have accepted that something happened that was significant enough to cause myself to split. I just don't know what it was and it's taking a long time to get all my alters on board to figure out what it was.
Sometimes it is just that, time and patience.
i'm wondering, does everyone with DID need treatment? I am not convinced that I have it although I do think i have some dissociative disorder. There are many holes in my memory, but if my body has done this in order to protect me could it be better that I leave it be?
This is a good question
DID is usually comorbid with illnesses like complex PTSD, which will need treatment
So, by treating one, you usually ease the symptoms of the other
I’ve never met anyone who just has DID and nothing else, unless they are on TikTok and see it all as a joke
@@Rat_Queen86 haha, I guess that’s true. Yeah I’ve had a lot of treatment for cptsd
Yeah, denial's a bitch. Sometimes even our diagnosis isn't enough to prove it happened.
Many people feel the same initially!
How do I stop getting abused and get out of poverty? Cause the system sure as hell ain't helping me.
Have you asked them why they aren’t helping?
When you are all on the same page, to say they are a back up team does them no justice
Alters can be nothing short of amazing but you have to work hard to understand them
And they may be pissed off
@@Rat_Queen86 OP might be talking about "the system" as in capitalism (edit: and the legal system), not a dissociative system
OP, I wish there was a foolproof answer. It is extremely difficult to escape abuse and get out of poverty. Wishing you the best of luck ❤
TH-cam keeps unsubbing me
I was just on your website and I found the training DVD's "No Two Paths The Same" and "A Logical Way Of Being" but they are unavailable because first person plural has closed. Is there any plans to repost these trainings so we can have access to them again?
If you are in the uk we have some spare dvds, we could post out ‘Logical Way of Being” to you