Why is there so much fatigue in CPTSD/DID?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 มิ.ย. 2024
- In this video from The CTAD Clinic, Dr Mike Lloyd (Clinic Director) discusses a question asked by a subscriber, "why is there so much fatigue in Complex Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Dissociative Identity Disorder?" (also seen in OSDD).
These conditions often co-exist, and fatigue is a very common symptom seen in clinical practice among people with these. Mike looks at one key reason for this, in the absence of a medical explanation. There are other reasons as well, which may be explored later on.
#otherspecifieddissociativedisorder #osdd #dissociativeidentitydisorder #did #therapy #complexposttraumaticstress #cptsd
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I really needed to hear that, the connection between fatigue and cptsd. Every time I complain about having no energy, no motivation, about failing the simpliest daily chores, I'm always told I'm lazy. I've heard that so often that it's getting harder and harder to not start believing it. It takes more and more energy to find excuses for everything...
EXACTLY. Thank you for your comment! I needed to hear what you typed 🙂
Me too. It takes a lot of energy to live in a state of avoidance and the shame of being avoidant. The cycle becomes more intense and more limiting. Body and cognition are held in a void while I struggle to imagine some way out of this.
Thank you all for the original comment and the replies to it! It's a mindfuck; a perpetual running around in a mental mirror maze.
Absolutely. Mine compounded by a lifetime of undiagnosed CPTSD, and then chronic illness, including Epstein-Barr virus and Lyme disease for most of the last decade. And then back to back abusive relationships with NPD/borderline women.
can confirm: the unending fatigue is the worst aspect of having cptsd. Brain fog gets a close second place, but the fatigue is constantly making my life worse.
I usually think fatigue and amnesia seem the worst.
I have Chronic CPTSD, contrary to your statement, I do not "hold on to trauma", I do not "keep it locked in" it holds on to me, clings to me, chokes me, it keeps me locked in and it is exhausting. It has taken my career, relationships and joy. It is not something anyone holds onto, consciously or not.
❤ Yes - To all of this. I’m shocked your comment doesn’t have more likes. I feel like your comment perfectly explains the hell within which I live. ❤ Lots of Love to you. Thank you for your brilliant comment.
It’s also worth noting that processing trauma is exhausting too
It’s all so tiring
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ It truly is. It ALL exhausting.
About a year and a half ago in therapy, I was rapid switching (I have OSDD-1b) and eventually my 15yo alter (I was 27 when this happened) was triggered out after I asked my therapist, "I need to know: do I have multiple personalities?" He said yes. The 15yo alter shot forward, started crying and said "now I feel like I'm back at square one." The alter was talking about the brain's epilepsy and depression and that how, for years, so many doctors told my parents and myself that they didn't know what to do for me because no treatments were working. This alter (she has since integrated) knew how OSDD develops and she couldn't accept that awful things had been done to me/her starting from infancy. I love children; it was too much to bear for the alter. She eventually shot out of the body and "ran" into the inner world and hid somewhere. The alter that took her place in the body started bawling hysterically while also laughing from the release of trauma in the nervous system -- it did *literally* feel like invisible weights had been removed from my body and soul. I felt lighter and my vision was sharper. Colors were brighter. It was like a thick layer of reality had *finally* been peeled back and I was *finally* able to see true reality for the first time in my life. It was incredible, and I'm beyond grateful for my wonderful trauma therapist. Literally don't know what I would've done without him in that moment. And thank *you* for making these videos! Before I was diagnosed and just had a hunch, I'd watch your videos; they'd make me feel less "crazy," or like I was just making up some huge traumatic story about myself that never actually happened. Nope! I was just in denial because of the nature of these disorders. God bless you for the work you do! 💛 you've helped many, many people.
Thank you for telling your story it’s giving me hope
@@annalynn9325 I'm so glad 💛 I hope your journey is fruitful 🤗
Thank you too.
Wish you well! From the bottom of my heart! Because psychological pain, trauma and/or abuse have no visible wounds: people don't understand the immense suffering. You are not bleeding, you are not missing limbs, you look like having a functioning body, the rest is invisible and for many, hard or impossible to relate to. Validation is such of important piece in healing.
@@tahwsisiht thank you so much, and this is Truth! 💛
Sleep disorders are so commonplace in DID that it could be a diagnostic feature. Parasomnias like sleep paralysis and sleep terrors, insomnias, nightmares, and more. Add in addictive and self-harm issues, and it is a miracle that anyone with DID gets enough healthy sleep at any point in their lifetime not to be exhausted most of the time.
It really does add up to a substantial list of things to be tired from.
Due to my D.I.D, ADHD and my Autism, I barely get enough sleep unless I crap out from exhaustion. But at the same time, I am consistently falling asleep in public or while I am home doing something, or if I am with a friend. Between all these factors, I am surprised I can function on a day to day bases.
I’ve had a “sleep disorder” for 15 years and have seen so many sleep docs (before I knew about DID). I had one particular sleep doc who put this device on my wrist for a week to tell when I was asleep and awake. I also had to chart being awake and asleep.
When we met after, he asked if I’d had a certain kind of trauma growing up (I had). He carefully told me that the device showed me awake in the middle of the night for hours though I thought I’d been asleep. He also said in his experience, when patients have a poor response to sleep disorder meds (stimulants not working well) it can indicate a dissociative disorder.
He was the only non-psychiatrist doctor I’d seen that knew about the tie between sleep and dissociative disorders. Helped me greatly in my discovery of my dx.
@@vt140 If you are awake for long periods at night, you have a legitimate sleep disorder, regardless of the causation. The wrist devices are not as accurate as clinical somnography because they measure physical phenomenon other than brain waves. The signals from wrist devices are translated but not the same as brain wave measurement. Most clinicians would rather have you in their lab if possible. Too bad he didn't help you sleep better. The research tells us that sleeping better improves mental health, and improved mental health delivers better sleep. Bidirectional relationship. For people with trauma, the treatment gets tweaked to address chronic hyperarousal and separate the connection between past trauma and the present moment, the bedroom, safety, and self-care.
We can go weeks ok but then unable to function for days can't even get out of bed. Thanks for explaining it all today
❤ Wow- Yes. Thank you for your comment. I hate that you experience this, but it helps to know that “others” like me are out there. ❤ Lots of Love to you. ❤
this topic is so important to me since fatigue is what makes it difficult for me to function in every day life
I soooooo needed to hear this!!!
I have CPTSD and possible other parts that I’m working thru in therapy…. I was also diagnosed w chronic fatigue syndrome. I was constantly told I’m just lazy. I have no drive. When the drive is in there, but my mind and body can’t pull through for me… I’m exhausted all the time. This explains so much. Thank you. ♥️
You are most welcome.
Same with me
Same with me too
Yes, and also trauma impacts the microbiome and increases the risk of autoimmune disorders. No amount of talk therapy will fix the damage that's been done, but it can protect you from more damage. A good therapist may also be able to help you access actual health care in a system where having a mental health diagnosis can be life-threatening.
Absolutely.
What beside talk therapy can help, then?
@@ceterisparibus8966I encourage people to look into probiotics, vitamin and mineral deficiencies, as well as exercise, grounding, and even cold exposure.
Sometimes it feels like our bodies take longer than our brains to convince that we are safe, and that we are now going to care for them properly. Growing up with constant stress and instability, our bodies need consistency from us to get used to a different lifestyle.
Start small, with one simple change, and stay consistent with it. Then pat yourself on the back for making a positive change for yourself!
@@ceterisparibus8966somatic therapy
They blame my brain on my youth so I said fine f with him I'm not seven anymore.Idiots the lots of them .
as a trauma survivor the crushing unexplained fatigue is so terrible and never ending. I never thought about baby trauma. I died for an undetermined time as a baby when my airway blocked up with pneumonia complications. It took my older brother all night to get my mother to get out of bed and check on me. I was dead but paramedics were able to bring ne back but they did declare me dead on arrival, i never thought of that as inflicting trauma until this video
Good grief, you have been through so much. I am grateful to be able to offer anything helpful with this video!
I think this could be what happened to me, and part of why I am this way. I was born blue (not getting oxygen) and If I recall correctly what I have been told, a nurse also punctured one of my lungs when inserting an oxygen tube.
Thank you for always explaining things in a way that makes sense. As you mentioned, even if someone is so brave as to sprint towards trauma resolution there are so many dissociative mechanisms in place by that point that it's not so simple.
I would say, “good luck with that” when someone says that is what they intend to do! Caution, caution, caution…
Talking about how we lug trauma around and how exhausting it is, it reminded me of how I visualize the weight I carry. For me it's like thick, heavy chains locked to my ribs. Dragging a massive boulder ripping at my flesh and cracking my bones. How scary it is to stop and tend to those wounds! Something in me tells me I just have to keep pushing, keep dragging it behind me even though it's hurting me
That is an excellent visual, so personal that I can feel the weight of it.
That's a great description of what it feels like to drag around trauma. I've often described it as feeling like I'm stuck under a hundred feet of water without a breathing apparatus.
What a visual description of the weight you carry! During an imagination meditation I felt that mine feels as if I was made to carry several boulders and large rocks in my rucksack. The relief I felt during a break and the resistance I felt when the break ended and I was meant to continue my journey...
Thank you for your video, sir. I'm C-PTSD, DID, OCD, Social Anxiety, & Major Depressive Disorder, along with Severe Persistent Asthma, Hypertension, & life-threatening food & drug allergies. (I carry an epinephrine auto-injector everywhere I go.) I'm battling severe fatigue daily. It makes it very hard to work full time & do activities of daily living. I often crash & wind up in bed for up to two (& sometimes three) days straight. I'm ashamed to admit this. I'm doing my best. 😢
I am very frustrated because I’ve been working on my cptsd for 2 years. I’ve done a 12 step program, weekly EMDR therapy for a year straight, and adopted healthier habits (eating, sleeping, yoga, meditation). I am no less tired than I was prior to beginning this work. The EMDR was helpful in alleviating the emotional heaviness of childhood trauma, but the chronic fatigue has remained or even gotten worse. I am at a loss of what to do. I don’t want to have to take stimulants in order to stay awake during the day. I sometimes worry I’ll fall asleep driving. It’s as if the trauma is relentless in interrupting my life, even after I feel I’ve healed layers and layers and layers of it.
I know exactly how you feel as this is the same for me, I'm doing yoga, meditation, EMDR, sound baths, but the fatigue is much worse
I can relate! I feel like working at healing and letting go of the trauma has become the central aim of my life. This video makes it seem like all you need to do is "face it" and "talk about it" to fix it but that's what I've been doing for YEARS now with no relief of fatigue and DPDR.
Idk if this is helpful but I had a horrible time with stimulants for years but my doc put me on Xywav and it’s actually really helped. I know it’s not ideal to be on medication but I literally can’t function if the sleep issue isn’t pharmaceutically treated
I'm in the states. I have not found anywhere, anyone that understands this. I've been doing this on my own for 23 years. I have found no one that can hold the space. I'm so tired I don't even care anymore. I've lost hope. I appreciate your videos. Im learning alot. But it's also showing me that I haven't found support, and I have tried.
Thank you.
I wish we could help more to the US.
Our body is 60 and about to be 61. We are finally being treated for DID just in the past year and a half we've been in therapy. Last time 27 years ago with a ptsd and bi-polar disorder treated with medication, didn't work because it was the wrong diagnosis so suffered for 27 years until 2022.
My current therapist is not trained in DID only in trauma, c-ptsd and family systems, but once she realized what we were working with she is now being supervised by a busy ISSTD trained certified therapist. The most important thing is my therapist is really compassionate, open, therapist tries real hard to understand us and work with us and learn. its taken over a year before two of us that are somewhat co-conscious to both trust her. the res are still not there yet. If you wait for a proper expert you will probably die first! its not to late dont wait. find a therapist who understands trauma, believes and supports you and is willing to learn.
It will take us many more years to get some stability but we feel like we are heading in the right direction. Educate yourself and and find others as inspiration, Olga Trujillo is a great role model to some of us here. dont give up because you cant find perfect!
Cheers from the Southwest U.S.A.
I have been dealing with CPTSD for 24 years.
No therapist EVER believes me when I’ve known about CPTSD for that long. Why is it SO difficult to find a professional who has ANY idea what CPTSD is?
Thank you so much for all of your videos! I am just always tired, always always so tired! It makes it hard to have the energy to do the therapy work needed, and it becomes a vicious feedback look of "fatigued because of unaddressed trauma" and "unaddressed trauma because too fatigued to address it." thank you for providing accurate, empathetic, and accessible information and providing answers for questions we have that usually fall outside of the "101 level" fact sheets and info pamphlets that are lost often given out but deal with the nitty gritty of daily living. Your videos have helped me so much over the years and I find myself sharing them with my therapist prior to our sessions asking if we can talk about it. Thank you thank you!
I cannot express how pleased I am to be able to help in this way for you.
The same goes for me, on all points! The fatigue and the trauma biting each other's tails. All the ways these videos are helpful in therapy and in feeling validated, informed, understood. Plus, I also 'send' some of these videos to another alter to try to reach her with some care, explanation and understanding.
This really could be why I'm so tired? I mean I've got DID and no medical issues. It started after a breakdown in my 20's. Wow. Thank you.
I’ve conceptualised my fatigue from a polyvagal perspective - a sort of dorsal shutdown when I become too activated via anxiety/triggers, etc. It often takes completing that stress cycle (I.e. activating the body again) to shake off the tiredness/lethargy/catatonia and move out of the hopeless shutdown.
where can I read more about this? And what do you mean by activating the body again? How?
@@cluelessangel5292 if you mean polyvagal theory, I’d recommend watching videos and finding books from Deb Dana, who tends to explain the various states of our nervous system in pretty accessible language.
Re: activating the body - the freeze response (dorsal shutdown) is our brain telling our body that it’s not safe to move. So by engaging our body in an active way, we can tell the brain, “hey, I’m moving again, and I’m ok”. This could be really simple stuff (shaking your hands, stomping your feet) or more effortful (going for a walk/run, jumping jacks, etc.).
You could also look into somatic modalities - even something as simple as raising our hands (making a “no” gesture for example) can help the body recognise that we have some control over our situation, and break out of the dorsal cycle.
I recently became homeless at 62. The other day a young woman did something kind for me. It left me speechless. I couldn't understand why I felt so ashamed as if I had done something wrong. I worried I hadn't responded with enough , or the right kind of gragitude. What you said was brilliant, and spot on For me, it's only the tip of the iceberg. I have found its easier to keep to myself because most encounters with other people always leave me feeling as if I have failed. There was this this homeless young man trying to carry his belongings in one arm while riding a bike. I asked him would you like a bag? I have a spare. He was delightful but he wasn't okay and my one simple question inspired a long monologue which in many ways was inspiring while also never ending. If I hadn't made an excuse to end it, I imagine I'd still be listening. And yet after he left my mind concocted all the things I should have asked/responded. I was exhausted. I wish I had the opportunity to move to the UK. It would be worth the time and expense to be able to be treated at your clinic. You really are one of a kind. God bless and thank you for sharing.
Thank you so much, B. Please know that feeling so much from an act of kindness will resonate with others, as such things can be hard to take in when they haven’t been part of the fabric of life. Thinking and replaying, and thinking again, in a loop, like you describe, is indeed exhausting. That’s why I love nature so much, it takes me out of my brain!
Well great, I guess I will be exhausted and fatigued for the rest of my life. I am too old for trauma therapy (61), can’t afford the financial costs for having to go years before an alter can trust someone enough to share their trauma with. I was misdiagnosed for over 45 yrs, now it’s too late. I think at this stage of my life I need to try and be happy, even without much energy or sleep, rather than sleep because I am dealing with the abuse all over again. It’s really a no win situation for me now. DID has ruined the first 58 yrs of my life.. I only have maybe 10 years left.. if trauma therapy could be done and over with in let’s say 2 months, I would be all in.. but I know it’s a long long process and not a quick fix.
Maybe not, perhaps set a sight on something like 6 months, with small but important goals? I certainly hope you get some help, 61 is not too old at all!
@MK Sparrow - I’m 66 and starting trauma therapy. It’s never too late. Take heart. 🩷
I'm 61 I'm just getting started, don't give in to how old you are that's one of those socialtal beliefs we buy into.
I'm 64, and it's getting safe enough as my being on a fixed income and being disabled too, makes this world a very traumatic place.
I am 69 years old with CPTSD! I am continuing to work through my trauma successfully, with eft tapping! Visit eft universe! This works on people of all ages!
As so often happens your video has perfect timing. I have hit the wall with a dangerous level of burnout (again), have had this many times in our lives, far too many to list. We are involved as a victim in two major court cases we have been told by the crown prosecutor and the OIC and others that there will be a lot of media attention with these cases so I need to be prepared for that, this is adding to the vast amounts of stress we already feel.
One of the ways we have processed is by writing, as it is a powerful tool. Sadly these two court cases have name suppression orders (trying to get them lifted, but not a simple process), this means cannot write (we write for magazines and blogs) and have to be careful how we speak.
Losing the main tool in our toolkit that we know works, especially since we have only been seeing our new clinical psychologist since November last year, meaning the rapport building is happening far faster than normal, but has to happen as the cases are too big. It is the biggest leap of faith in our lives.
We all just want to sleep and sleep and sleep.
Thankfully we are having sessions twice a week to keep us going. These videos make a world of difference to help make sense of what happens. Thank you so much.
Hopefully you get through all this ok.
@@thectadclinic Thank you.
I know from experience that being involved in court cases as a victim is very stressful and exhausting. But now that it is years in the past for me/us, I also know that it can bring a relief, and a sort of satisfaction that I/we did what we could to make known to the world that this person did things that are not okay. And that I did my part in preventing this to happen to other people. The media attention was stressful but after some time it went away. I am so sorry to hear that you are not allowed to write so you have to do without something that is so helpful to you. I wish you all the courage and energy you need for these cases, and all the relief and peace of mind. It is a brave thing to do this. Thank you for doing your part in bringing justice in the world.
@@binarystar11235 Thank you.
Your comment is 4 months old now but I just wanted to wish you strength and safety going forward with the court cases and you are doing a very brave thing to be doing those. We're too scared of going to court about what happened to us so we 100% respect you for your decision, it's very admirable that you're holding them accountable too. Please be good to yourself and in case you need to hear it rn, you DO deserve good things and happiness ❤. Peace and love from a random stranger.
Could you do a video about fibro and ptsd
Thank you for this video dr Mike! Very good and helpful topic. Your explanation and empathy make me feel less like 'the fatigue is all my own fault of course because I am lazy and stupid and too coward to face my trauma'. I would like to add that switching is a big energy drain in itself. The switching also adds to the accusations towards myself, because most switches cost me significant amounts of energy so 'I shouldn't switch if I want my energy'. But it seems like switching a lot in therapy sessions has a purpose because different parts want/need to be heard and have their needs known and met.
It’s crazy isn’t it.. we have so many projects and skills, so many wonderful things on the go… but we’re consumed by fatigue Someone will say “I haven’t done anything useful, I’ve been sleeping I’m lazy. “ Then they look around and there is so much being created & done; Beautiful things. Amazing things. We get exhausted but the payoff is incredible. It also only happens when our lifelong nightmares settle down.
This makes a lot of sense. Weve always had sleep problems and a poor immune system. Our healthcare team keeps reminding us that the body remembers, and even if all our other symptoms were hidden that stress was physically present and draining us for 2 decades before we became actively aware.
Its so hard to get diagnosed and then viladated or accepted for treatment for our neurological and fatigue-related issues, because its hard to measure in a medical sense. People only see what they expect to see, but our body remembers.
Thanks so much Dr Mike. Our levels of fatigue are so debilitating. Also when we exercise we often get injured mainly we think as our body is prone to soft tissue / inflammation. We still aren’t ready for trauma processing as not yet really learnt enough emotional / physiological regulation in all parts. Our feelings still feel too much when we do allow them and also amnesiac barriers mean we aren’t ready to process. So I guess it’s not purposeful‘avoidance’ as such? We (one of us) went into a shame response when we heard that feeling like we aren’t ‘clever enough’ to be able to process yet 🙄
Thanks for validating our fatigue !
Agreed, much of avoidance is deeply held, we often are not aware how much gets pushed away, but the system is working hard to do it anyway!
Thank you so much for this video! I have Narcolepsy with cataplexy, and I noticed it is quite connected with my DID.
When someone surprises me by touching me unexpectedly, I have cataplexy. Cataplexy is temporary muscle paralysis which makes my body involuntarily collapse to the floor. When I have cataplexy, my consciousness temporarily leaves my body. I have realized that this is my mind blocking out the trigger and therefore memories.
To my surprise, others with Narcolepsy often either agree or vehemently disagree that trauma is involved in the development of Narcolepsy. I think those who aggressively disagree have brains and parts that are protecting them from suppresses trauma memories.
The more time my little alters spend playing and relaxing, the more energy our body has.
Thank you again for spreading resources and awareness 🙏🏻💜
Yes, indeed. I’ve burnt out 4 times, trying to keep it all together. And then … also, a part takes over like a magic spell and then the spell ends by my sleeping it off. The No 1 progress step was developing a witness part who could start to observe what was happening, no 2 was starting to see how to contain the chaos by removing individuals from my life and myself from certain situations, so a planned avoidance, but it was so I was then free to process things cognitively and in my body. That was also exhausting, seeing why I was so exhausted… allowing myself to feel things was exhausting, but yes, finally have energy free to do more than mere coping, getting there. Thanks Dr Mike for your videos. :)
Thank you so much for this video😊
They checked at the doctor to see why i was so exhausted in my teens without finding anything. I had shut off or was in control of if I expressed any feelings, it felt more like playing a character. It didn't feel safe to be honest. When I started at a new school the teacher saw something was wrong, in a meeting with her and a student they told me they had tried to include me. It was such a shock, my brain had told me the opposite. I think it had gotten used to not trusting people.
I had a plan for as long as i can remember to stick it out and get away after school/at 18. That unfortunately didn't happen, the psychologist i got then started asking so much too fast. One night I sat up in bed and told my parents "I need to go to the hospital". I was there six months and only got pills and tests, not really someone to talk to anymore.
I'm ready now and got a ptsd diagnosis a few years ago that my gp removed just because I was denied further treatment. I was also a place to ensure it's not epilepsy because i wanted to go off anti epileptic meds I'd had for ten years because they suspected bipolar. There I was far away from family and it felt so much safer there, my body also felt more relaxed. They wrote in the papers after that I would benefit from trauma treatment.
My doctor said the other day that "I should try to not think about it". He didn't seem to like that I had started reading a book to understand and maybe process my childhood. I know to be careful. I feel like im just surviving and not living, I have to do something. I don't want to give up when I've come this far. Sorry for the rambling...
Being shoved down being told we're 'lazy' etc, after already dealing with what allbwe're dealing with, is simply re-traumatizing us again and again our whole lives.
Also people whose systems react differently to cptsd who may become overdriven workaholics etc, will say well I had trauma too but I'm doing so and so and you're just lazy!
Different people's neurological systems react differently to shock and trauma.
One of the kindest things we can do for each other in life to help us all be healthy, able to cope and function, is to simply avoid re-traumatizing one another!!
No one who isn't going through it can imagine that not being able to do things, being inactive, not being able to reach your goals, finding your dreams die by the hundreds one by one because of cptsd and other things (ME/CFS, living in Moody homes because you can't work enough to get a decent place to live, always struggling to get people to allow you to live with them because you can't work and don't fall under disability requirements, on & on), that is not fun, doesn't feel good. Is that something you're going to want to try to do because you're lazy and you enjoy being inactive. Quite the contrary 😢
Thats an incredibly good explanation, thankyou dr! It reminds me of a spoken word poem called 'monsters of all sizes' by chris atkin + rachel chidester, its about how emotional issues/trauma can be the cause of weight issues but one line (or set of lines really) has always stood out to me:
..."Im not anorexic stop calling me that, my body consumes every drop i ingest to fuel this constant state of fight or flight... My ptsd burns calories in my sleep while my mind runs marathons trying to escape the venomous bite of a hungry serpent.... My therapist reminds me everything happened a long time ago but im still afraid of the dark at night, i am the serpent eating its own tail"...
This video explains exactly why those lines have always stuck so hard with me from that poem. It makes so much sense, having this hypervigilant feeling always that something new and bad will happen while trying to avoid causing ptsd responses/triggers from old bad things always also is exhausting. Thats why people in fantasy sleep in shifts through the night, so no one person has to be the one being vigilant and protective all the time, so that they each get a little bit of rest atleast. Really very excellently worded video/explanation for the fatigue regarding dissociation
Thank you so much for this!
Partial DID? Also wondering if Magnesium deficiency might be playing a part in this too. Stress depletes Magnesium levels. Another great video.
Stress, the immune system and fatigue? All linked.
Another perspective that I believe is important to take into account is the extremely high percentage of people with dissociative disorders that are autistic, because, more than 50% of autistic people have some form of hypermobility disorder, whether it be generalized hypermobility or Ehlers-Danlos syndrome. I became interested in this as somebody with Ehlers-Danlos syndrome, who is also autistic and has a dissociative disorder. Autism frequently is caused by hypermobility in the atlas vertebrae of the cervical spine causing neurological variance throughout development. Having an unstable atlas (c1 vertebrae) can cause many of the “negative” symptoms associated with autism. Due to its effect on nervous system function, because of the impact of hypermobility of the cervical vertebrae on the vagus nerve which controls most functions of the body. People experiencing the autonomic nervous system dysfunction that goes hand-in-hand with vagus nerve dysfunction and due to the vagus nerve being in control of the autonomic nervous system tend to have an altered stress throughhold compared to people who don’t experience it. Our bodies even make extra cortisol. It can cause autonomic nervous system dysfunction that leaves us living in fight or flight 24/7. So experiences some neurological, healthy kids could handle without developing DiD, are completely overwhelming for us. Unless you have lived with a brain and body that functions this way, it’s very hard to understand. Everything is extremely intense. This programming was created for the times we were chased by bears or something. It’s supposed to be brief, temporary. But it’s constant. Also it impacts dopamine pathways, serotonin, gaba and many other important neurological functions. The pathways throughout the body, that play important roles in maintaining energy, so alongside a significant amount of physical health issues due to the dysfunction of the vagus nerve, which inoculates most of the body, we are also dealing with a condition that is known to cause derealization/depersonalization. It causes a constant state of severe anxiety. As neurodivergent kids we can be extra creative when it comes t developing coping mechanisms. It’s been shown that neurotypicals subconsciously experience a kind of uncanny valley effect interacting with neurodivergent people that’s making us more likely to be alienated and experience abuse from peers and parents. Alongside a frequent side effect of severe pain that is also traumatic. Health conditions that are comorbid with this cause extreme fatigue and other side effects, I have several of them. The way your shared body is built can be the largest factor in your fatigue so it’s a really important thing to (demand) find answers for. Because while switching can be exhausting, doctors will use any mental health excuse to delegitimize health issues in people like us after seeing our medical records. I’ve almost died from this a few times this year but am still not being taken seriously. All this to say, if you’re experiencing neurodivergencey/a dissociative disorder, and fatigue, look into cervical instability and vagus nerve dysfunction before writing off symptoms like this as purely mental
Yep, very important stuff. And it's completely unfair that most of us have to do the research work for ourselves, and even then struggle to get any help or answers 💩
Thanks for bringing up the spine stuff, I had completely forgotten about looking into it, while trying to manage all of the other stuff, like sleep apnea, which seems to also be more common in eds+ people.
It's easy to fall into interpreting everything as parts activity after finding out you have a dissociative disorder especially when you have a lot of symptoms that look like somatisation or FND. But sadly when you're neurodivergent and hypermobile, there's always a good chance that random symptoms can be signs of physical issues...
I‘m absolutely astonished as your explanation made me realize what I have been missing out for way too long! Thank you infinitely!
Glad it helped!
When I was 3 or 4 years old, the house in Ohio had a TV aerial that, when the wind blew at night, made these scary ghost sounds and I was terrified, I screamed and screamed but my naive parents thought I knew better and I'd get used to it. So for all of my life, I have had a lack of motivation and personal energy. For all of my working career, I was said to be too slow of a worker. People made fun of me and some people hated me. I got fired from one job and went on to the next. My whole life I've been tired, fatigued, sleepy and I've never had energy or ambition to do more than I absolutely have to. I tried 2 psychiatrists but neither understood or could help me. I'm assuming the aerial is what caused my problems. My mother told me and even laughed about it, when I was older, in how I was so scared and I screamed and screamed all night long
Hi, Dr. Lloyd! Would you mind doing a video on why a system might not be cooperative at times. For example some parts want things a certain way while others want it another and we are at odds with ourselves. We are supposed to be working together but feel very dysfunctional. Could you please share your thoughts on why that happens? Thank you! Your content is very educational and helpful too! Jennifer
I am so glad I heard this explanation. It is three months that I quit my job AND I JUST CANNOT FEEL RESTED. At the very thought of looking for a new job I'm shirking and want to vomit. I'm exhausted at the thought of processing an email that deals with institutions or something official, let alone crank them out at work. Having 30 years of meditative practice I tell myself: "hey, I do not really look for pleasure. If it's there it is there, if not then not. So I do not really go to town, go on holidays, hike, swim do stuff, because I am not drawn to it, I have other things that nourish me". And yet I recently started to suspect that it's the wrong way around. I am exhausted of something unprocessed, and so nothing gives me joy or pleasure really, I'm drained. So I started digging. And I hit cPTSD. And the puzzles start to fit. Then I got into Dan Browns Ideal Parent Figure protocol and I opened the hell loose with all the ways my parents clumsily demolished all aspects of a healthy attachment. Wishing well they just left me traumatized. What a sad part. Now it's on me to undo that. But getting to understand these things gives me exhilaration! I feel energy coming back, getting ready to tackle all that, now that I hit the golden nugget of a direction.
I apologize if this had been asked before, can you go into detail about the differences and similarities between DID and C-PTSD
It appears that the UK (NHS) continues to offer superior service to their citizens suffering with CPTSD. Here in the US, we have to fight for proper recognition by psychiatrists (and their enormous DSM, a diagnostic manual), where CPTSD (known as complex PTSD in US) is given less attention, less consideration. I was misdiagnosed for years. Lamictal almost killed me (severe SIs) and Lithium damaged my kidneys. So I am left trying to manage this "disorder" with less medication. Instead, I have to rely on myself to eat right, sleep a lot, and avoid people generally. Hermit since 2020.
Thank you so much for this. Doctors have been trying to find causes to my chronic fatigue since I was 12 years old. I'm 44 now and have just been diagnosed officially with DID. Now I finally know why I've been so tired for so long, and as if magically, since I finally opened up about my trauma, my energy level is going up. Glad to know it will get better when my therapy starts. Thank you.
“I hope that slightly answers your question as much as possible” you have a way with words that makes me comfortable and intrigued😊
Yep, this. Brain fog, exhaustion, headaches… it’s hard.
Certainly, it can be.
This is such a great accessible explanation, thankyou!
Very relevant. Thank you
Glad you answered this question. Thank you Dr Mike.
You’re welcome!
This made so much sense - thank you so much for these videos!
You are welcome!
This was great! Thanks so much
Hey Dr. Lloyd! Just gonna leave this here and hope that maybe you'll give us some insight on it. (Us being not just me/my system but some friends/systems as well.)
I'm not actually diagnosed with any form of DID/OSDD yet due to to a lack of amnesia (I'm in the US, and my area does have much help for trauma related things.). But a friend system and I were talking about how we have something kinda similar to amnesia, but not quite. I personally describe mine as a form of rapid memory loss. Basically, we remember key things that happened during the day/week/month but the further away the event is the more we forget. Even for BIG things (like trauma things). Like today, I remember I had pizza for breakfast and some car troubles. Tomorrow I might forget about the pizza until I see the empty box next to the trash can, and definitely remember the car troubles. But but next week I'll probably not remember either one of those things until someone reminds me.
I was wondering what you're outlook on this might be? In the grand scheme of things, I don't NEED an official diagnosis. But my current therapist wants to do EMDR at some point, and I'm more than a little worried about just jumping into it. I've tried talking to her about me maybe having OSDD-1b, but that's where the "lack" of amnesia came up. But at the same time, therapy is almost impossible at this point with how much I see to be unallowed to say, and what all I forget between sessions. I'm still trying to find someone who knows Dissociative Disorders near me, but maybe at least knowing that I'm on the right track now will give me enough confidence to stand my ground with my current therapist at least.
All I can say is that we have folks here in clinic with DID and their memories are pretty good. We should not have an absolute rule on amnesia as measuring it accurately is difficult.
Amnesia can be difficult to quantify when it comes to dissociation; you have to have been AWARE you were doing something at a particular time to remember OR forget that you even did it at all. After all, how can you remember something that 'someone else' did while you were 'minimised to desktop?' (Like a program or window on a computer - that's how I'd best describe how a switch or 'co-con' feels for me. 🙂)
I've had people tell me I've done and said things I have no memory of doing or saying, and that are so completely out of character for me the only reason I don't feel able to straight-up accuse them of lying to me is because I either trust them enough to know they would never do that, or they present me with actual evidence that I did, indeed, do or say that thing. It's scary, confusing and frustrating, and if you're also getting instances like that, I'd say that's a very strong indication of dissociation. I wish you all the best in finding the answers that will get you the help you need.
Hey, CrimsonRedWolf. I experience something similar. Let’s say I’m in session with my therapist. I’m aware when a younger part starts talking and what is being said. I’m even aware of other switches. It’s mostly like I’m in the background. For an hour or two after the session, I may have good recall for the session, but that night or the next day when a friend asks me about my session, I start to talk and find out I can’t recall it. It’s like an “access denied” message n the computer.
I explain the being in he background to myself as coconsciousness. For me, I think the parts linger for a bit giving me short-term recall. Once they have gone wherever they go, it’s access denied. It’s almost as if they took the memory with them. State dependent learning is a thing. I’m guessing so is state dependent memory.
Hmm…. Dr. Mike? Is DID and related conditions partly a mater of state dependent memory? If the part comes back, I can remember. Curious.
That s my experience as well.
Lovely, thank you, ive bene waiting for this One for quite a while now
Yes, thank you so much for your time on this subject.
I hope this did the question justice!
I was in therapy for seven years 1993-2000. I had a team, MD once a month, LMSW twice a month and group with two facilitator's once a week. I had seen another PhD for about a year in my 20's. Even then, it would cross my mind if I have MPD. DID wasn't used yet. I blew it off because it wasn't "like the movies".
My behavior that put the thought in my head I could remember. I thought that what I remembered was all there was to remember. ha. During the years in therapy, the MD didn't address to me if he suspected DID neither did the other four clinicians. But in general processing for core milestones lacking and "family of origin dysfunction", Co-dependant, battered wife syndrome, situational depression, is what we worked with. Coping skills, being aware of old tapes (I think "old tapes" worked to hide some of our alters. They all taught us about how suppressing behaviors or memories or reactions used up our energy. They called it psychic energy depletion. I think dx of Depression, professionals expect the fatigue and energy zapp otherwise fatigue is under-studied.
Rapid switching and I guess you'd call it loss of gatekeeper being on the job, I don't know, but it feels like a crowd in front position and I am torn physically trying to maintain something like debate management vs all out free-for-all. Plus the physical stress of push and shove at front and the energy for fight or flight etc is flowing, but the energy is held back and it makes my hands and insides jitter tremble or shake . My body gets tired to the point of feeling threatened and I try not to panic also yeah it's worse sort of now because before I knew I just thought it was me being stressed and racing thoughts.
I am not ready to use push and shove to integrate. I know that some holding knowledge or information bit that now we are all aware of and all draws the same sad conclusion.The big picture I am facing and processing etc. What I do remember is bad enough, Maybe Iater. I tell us we are safe now sp it's okay to chil.
Thank you for this.
@@thectadclinic oh you are welcome. May I ask about what this is likable for? I’m glad it is while wondering how so.
Thank you for explaining this so thoroughly!❤
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks again for a relevant video.
Thanks, Eva!
I think that when we have time and a safe space to feel, we got pretty oki with looking at the trauma or letting trauma holding alters exist.
But it's oftentimes not really an option for us when we're trying to stay functional to be able to work.
We have to block the more trauma related alters away from front and that costs sooo much energy.
And then it's really hard to unblock and get back more into a kind of flow.
We were on sick leave all last year and had a lot more energy, because we didn't have to block out our traumatic experiences so much.
But we haven't found a solution for managing that *and* work 😔
Terrific video. Thanks.
Glad you liked it!
So relevant. I get so tired, especially after eating. I’ve been wiped out before dinner time and doing remote college, while not being sure if anyone understands the severity.
Thank you for making this video - yep, the fatigue thing is definitely real!
Sort of related to this topic a bit: is there significance in there being a total absence of memories that would fit into a very specific category? For example, my dad was in the navy for most of my childhood, which mean he spent months at a time away at sea, and then came back for a month or so on shore leave before going away to sea again. The thing is, I have no memories whatsoever of him either leaving us (me, my mum and sister) to go away to sea, or of him coming home. And I mean, LITERALLY no memories; I can't recall a single instance of either event ever happening, even though logic tells me it must have done. This would've gone on right up to me being about thirteen years old, so it's not because I was just 'too young' to remember such things. (Especially since I do have some specific memories when I was very young of going on battleships with him during the special family visit days.)
Even thinking back on all of my childhood, the only way I can be sure he was home on leave at any time is if he's physically in a memory I have; if he's not there, I don't know if that was because he was away at sea, or he was home but just wasn't present during that event. It seems kind of weird that I'd have this massive hole in my memories that covers this specific category of events so completely. When it occurs, is it always likely for 'bad' reasons, or can it sometimes be for other reasons, not necessarily related to some kind of trauma?
I’d like to know this too. Thanks for asking the question.
Heya Doc. I'm so grateful for all your videos. They've helped me a lot.
This video was also helpful. There's something that you said in passing that I want to bring up.
I believe saying CFS is chronic fatigue with "no physical cause" (as opposed to unknown causes) is inaccurate and unintentionally harmful. Since the Long Covid phenomenon has gotten more attention, it seems clear that post-viral syndromes are a thing. Related studies are continually improving our understanding of CFS/ME.
I suspect that the fact that we see continuing effects of past viral illness and similar effects from past trauma isn't a complete coincidence. Illness is a kind of trauma as far as the body is concerned, and I wonder if both kinds of trauma affect our bodies similarly. (An aside: for a diabetic, having a cold can cause blood sugar to go up even if behaviors don't change. Our systems are intertwined.)
Again, thanks a ton for all you do. I don't mean to take away from that in bringing this up.
Of course, the context here is where it has been established that there is no medical cause. Some CFS arises from organics, other from trauma., we’re looking at the second aspect. Vulnerabilities can be present that make this distinction difficult, so it’s just trying to keep things simple!
I was looking for this comment. thank you for pointing this out! I was hoping someone would correct him and explain post-viral syndrome, you explained it better than I could 😅
Well done! From a therapist trained in TFCBT / EMDR and ERP.
The most informative video on fatigue in cptsd I've came across thus far. Thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks so much Dr Mike 😊
You're most welcome!
Excellent Information Sir 👉🏼 I Thank You 🙏
You are very welcome!
Very helpful, thank you.
You're welcome!
Wow that was so well put! You explained it so well! ❤😊
Thank you so much!
yup yup yup - well said Dr. Lloyd - thank you - seans
You are most welcome!
Im exhausted and i have been my entire life. I hold my breath all the time. I have to remind myself to breathe before I pass out 😢
Always breathe!
Excellent video can't believe i didn't put all this together sooner but it makes sense thx.
Glad it helped!
thank you so much
You're welcome!
Great video!!!
I wish I had seen your video first when I was first looking into this issue 👍
This make so much sense to me now
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Thank you, this helps me a lot. I'm dealing now.
Glad to hear it!
This is something I need to discuss in therapy, please.
Please can you jog my memory if I forget?
Thank you, Mike. ❤
Just seen this…
This makes so much sense
Thank you!
Thank you so much again for such a good video. I have tried to write the rest of this comment and can’t. Funny really, as it’s probably fatigue related! Lol anyway, thank you for your videos and the information they give and help make us feel less weird.
Thank you, too!
Dissociated partway through this video...rewound and listened to it again, but my brain just can't absorb it. It's like I literally can't understand the words. Even with a good trauma therapist who treats dissociative disorders I couldn't process the trauma. It would give me panic attacks, sense of doom. What I did say I would later forget. I created what I would later learn were delusional beliefs about my history which was just another way of not processing the actual trauma. Gruesome explanations. I'm at an impasse. I've done everything. I've been in therapy for 8 years and still cannot trust anyone and will not open up to anyone about the most vulnerable things. I literally cannot force myself to. I shut down completely in freeze mode. Temporary immobility. I even dissociate with attempts at basic internal communication. I am completely cut off from processing the trauma. I am much better than I used to be I've healed a lot otherwise. But I think some things I will never be able to recover from.
I truly hope you get to work through all this successfully!
Tony P, I used to be like that watching Dr. Mike. It’s better now. What I used to do that helped us was coming back another time. Hope this helps. Hang in there, it will get better.
So this is why I'm so f#$&8+- tired it's makes total sense just yesterday Sunday I was in a once again fatigue mode I fought through it because I wanted to get things done, although when you are in fatigue mode you're really not at at your best and struggle to stay on your feet.
this is really interesting, i never knew trauma is like a chronic illness... i'm very speechless
I’m always tired. Will almost fall asleep in therapy sometimes from being overwhelmed. It’s terrible being tired! I get extremely tired from switches and have very low blood pressure. I get terrible headaches and stomach aches too. But I’m tired because I’m managing the whims of the others. Maybe I just need to workout more.
Hey! My name’s Robbie. These videos are very interesting. However, as you can imagine, I have a lot of questions. My main question after watching all 3 parts is this:
You mention therapy quite a lot. But you never mention the types of therapy. I’ve been through so many types of therapy but they’ve always been stunted by funding or questionnaires, and I’m not rich enough to afford long-term therapy. However the dissociative aspect of my personlalities(s) has never quite been met. But, without the forensic examination of the trauma; I assume you mean talking therapy by that; as that does not work for me. It’s been a “stop/start” type of approach. Be intelligent enough to pass the quantitative stages of certain therapies. But then have even more dissociative periods as we’re forced to be “ok” until you’re able to access therapy again after 26 weeks. I have various diagnoses if anyone would like to watch my other videos. But never formal ones except Autism, Adhd and BPD. I don’t think it necessary to share them xall here. But for me so far the only type of therapy that has been working is EMDR. But I had to fight and argue to have that therapy. Anyway, a lot of questions but thanks 🙏🏻
Compensating for what everyday amnesia does and managing a system are also a massive energy drain.
Yes, compensating really can cause that.
So happy you said that. Many therapists have NO IDEA what we do to work around the system's actions in everyday life. Finding things they put somewhere else. Buying replacements for things they've tossed, and making a home happy for a lot of disparate parts. Dealing with things they've said and done to other people. Unblending from their emotions is a lot of work. Determining what is reality, orienting to the present time is a lot of work. I guess if you ALWAYS and EFFORTLESSLY know it isn't 1983 then that makes life a lot easier. People with schizophrenia might get more sympathy from therapists for the work of living with their disorder than we do.
He addresses the topic at 1:38.
i was diagnosed with cptsd not getting much help i also suffered from and still do from fatigue syndrome thanks for explaining why im always wiped out.
Tired all the time? Yeah. Constantly wasting effort on things I should need to waste energy on? Yeah. A life long pursuit of the most efficient way to do anything and everything? Very much so. Trying to do absolutely everything in my own never asking for help because I always feel like I don't deserve help. . . Yeah. Knowing what everyone else says will help or says has helped them with similar problems but never being able to do those things more than once. Yes. Retreating further and further into the behavior patterns that are the obvious indicators of the conditions I've been DX'ed with. I'm sure the pattern of "yes" is obvious by now. I know there thing are happening. I know which ones are "bad" for me. On a logical level I know. The logical understanding doesn't seem to matter in the day to day visceral, emotional, raw moment. I know that's the situation. What i dont know is. Why is that the situation?
Wow , that’s the first time I’ve heard this.
Hopefully it was helpful!
The others are derailing my life but I’m the one suffering and having to control the entire system. Why can’t they get therapy and leave me out of it? I’ve said many times that I would like therapy but in such a way that I’m not aware of it. It’s so ambivalent, wanting help but not wanting to go anywhere near the others who’re causing the problems in my life.😢
Watching this, I can understand how it would work in someone else, but for me, I don't feel like I'm carrying anything around, because I don't remember the trauma unless I have a flashback, and then I irreversibly forget the content within 15 minutes. It's a strange feeling to try to reason with myself that it could be affecting me. The trauma is subjectively always out of sight and I feel like it isn't even there, so I find it surreal to think that it could be wearing me down. What's the problem? There is no problem.
Well, this explains why I’ve been going to bed around 8:30 pm lately. Now, any wise words about switching headaches? Thx. ❤️
Heidi, brilliant question, worthy of a video on its own!
Makes sense why at 16 my adrenals had been shot
It wasn't counseling 8 years. I've done e m d r therapy for a year three times a week.
I've done other type rhings that were helpful
All I get is work and my body switches over so I can function. And then when I go home i'm exhausted.
It never goes away. Even did five years of medication
This rings true for me but also I think a lot of my tiredness is linked to freeze response, whenever I get stressed out or triggered I get very very sleepy and often end up asleep within seconds. Which is not particularly helpful, because it's not dealing with the emotion or what I need to do it's just severe avoidance!
I can see this, absolutely. Fatigue is also about all the energy used coping with the world.
I have a question! Sometimes we know everything there is to know to be able to do something, we know we'll be ok and have already decided to do it; but we cannot, we simply cannot, the body won't respond. Why does that happen? Thanks! I loved the video as always❤
Check out the video on why alters can stop people talking in therapy, that will help!
Yep! That’s a thing. Some days, I’m begging to get up and go to work, but the answer is clearly no since I can’t get out of bed. I hate hours of struggle to finally admit defeat and call in.
Did you do a video on why some alters punish and hurt the system? I am struggling to understand why a "protective" disorder means we have abusive parts. They seem to enjoy hurting us :(
In a roundabout way, yes, there is one, working out behaviour. There is likely an action system in play to achieve something. Even it is seems entirely unreasonable now, in the present.
Mike, I have an idea for video content! Can you please address prosopagnosia as a construct of DID? There’s not a lot of literature that I can see that puts this type of symptom in the dissociative category. - Mo
Could you possibly make a video on why communication might suddenly be difficult with alters? My gatekeeper recently tried to bury the system and although we worked through it, ever since then we have a harder time hearing each other while fronting. It's disconcerting and makes all of us panic a bit. How can we repair this? It's really scary to suddenly not hear the voices so clearly or nearly as often.
3:13 'take the dissociation away and deal with the truama' For people who *do* want to do that,is it possible?
I don't want to 'lose' the trauma. That trauma is part of who I am today. I want to face it, deal with it, welcome that separated chunk back, praise it for keeping me safe all those years ago an give it a new job in the Dart Consortium.
Some days I feel very much that I'm DID, but with a (mostly) common memory pool. I can change moods and values and beliefs at the drop of a hat. Each role thinking that he others are well meaning, but wrong. Making a decision that has long term implications is difficult.
Of course, the video was saying that many people do not want to deal with the trauma, preferring avoidance and/or denial. For those that do, it is worked out through the therapy.
@@thectadclinic Thank you. The wording coupled with what I know already implied there were 3 routes:
* Ignore the trauma, stuff in under the bed.
* Therapy: Acknowledge the trauma, and work thorugh it.
* Crack open the dissociation and face it head on.
I was hoping that the last one was real: A way to deal with trauma in a possibly very painful but quick way.
Thanks anyway.
Can you talk other therapies other than talk therapy for complex ptsd. I find talk therapy doesn’t work I’ve tried it so many times with no success
Is there any such thing as having mild pain possibly from being brought up in a home with a lot of aggressive shouting & some violence then at 30 I underwent an emergency operation from a 1.5 litre abcess in my womb & came out of hospital with full blown fibromyalgia. The pain in my spine was horrendous & 15 years later im dependent on morphine to give me any sort of quality of life. Slowly my body has gotten use to them which means doing very little cooking & often going hungry because im so lethargic & in pain. Anyone?