The Imperium of Mankind is as Fascist as it Gets (Reaction to Arch)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Unless we ignore all the things that make something... something, yes, it checks all the boxes.
(For legal reasons no Carmines were killed in the making of this video).
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Fascism is, quite famously and notoriously, a difficult ideology to define. In fact, it is almost impossible to define and that is because, unlike Communism, Socialism, Monarchism, Republicanism, or other such ideologies, it was never really an ideology. If you ask two fascists what Fascism is, you will get two different answers. Mussolini and his fascists have very little in common with Hitler's Nazis or Franco's Spain and even less in common with the Bolsheviks in the USSR or the CCP. But all of them were and are Fascists because they all share several core characteristics that are universal and defining of Fascist regimes.
1. Subordination of the Individual to the State. The Individual has no purpose in life, no reason for existing, except to serve the State. This was true in Nazi Germany, in Fascist Italy, in Fascist Spain, in the Soviet Union, and it remains true in the People's Republic of China and the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. In these nations, the idea of the Individual having any inherent rights or intrinsic value simply because they are a person is utterly foreign. The State is all that matters and anyone who is unable or unwilling to serve the State has no purpose and is, therefore, not worthy of the State's protection or support.
2. An External and all-pervasive "Other". Fascist states rely on some form of all-pervasive and ever present "Other" that they can use to justify their control of the population and the deprivations they force upon the populace. For Left Wing fascists like the USSR, PRC, and DPRK, that "Other" is often defined as Reactionaries, Counter-revolutionaries, Imperialists, or The West. To the Nazis, the "Other" was Jews and Judeo-Bolshevism. For most other forms of Right Wing fascism, like Franco and Mussolini, the other is Socialism, Communism, Liberalism. These terms are, quite intentionally, nebulous, so that they can readily and believably be applied to any individual or group that attempts to exist outside of the State. If someone criticizes the State, they are a Socialist, a Reactionary, a Judeo-Bolshevik conspirator. They are an Other attempting to destroy the State and rob the People of their purpose. This ties into the 3rd trait.
3. Glorification of the Military. Fascist states use the existence of the Other to massively emphasize and glorify the military. Fascist states will hold lavish military parades, showing off tanks, bombers, missiles, and every other tool of war as a way to intimidate the Other and to reinforce to the People that the suffering and deprivations they face are necessary to protect them from The Other. The Nazis justified massive military expansion in the 1930s and constant warfare by claiming to fight Judeo-Bolshevism and win back the birthright of Aryan Germans. The Soviets built the largest nuclear arsenal in the world and the largest conventional military ever seen to defend against the Imperialist West. The DPRK starves its population to maintain the largest military force per capita in the world to stop The Americans. And the PRC expands its own military force in the name of defeating The Imperialists. These nations treat soldiers, especially officers, lavishly to maintain their loyalty and deprive the citizenry of basic necessities to expand their military capabilities far beyond economical or reasonable levels, all to defeat The Other.
4. Rampant Nationalism and Populism. Whatever their underlying ideology, be they Right Wing or Left Wing, built on a foundation of labor agitation, religious fanaticism, or racial supremacy, all Fascists are Nationalists. The Nation and the State are synonymized and the history of the Nation is glorified to a ludicrous extent. Things that went wrong, like the Treaty of Versailles for Germany, or the 19th Century for China, become dastardly plots orchestrated by The Other as a way to keep the Nation and the People down. This goes hand in hand with Populist messaging, extolling The People to rise up, to endure their deprivations and struggles for the Good of the Nation and to defeat The Other. Fascist propaganda is full of populist and nationalist sentiments. Scenes of groups of people celebrating deific images of the Nation personified or the Great Leader (often one and the same thing) are universal and easily recognizable.
5. A heavily militarized paramilitary police force loyal to the Party and the State. Whether the Gestapo or SS of Germany, the NKVD and later KGP of the USSR, or the People's Armed Police of the PRC, internal security is maintained through a brutal and entirely unaccountable police force, often armed and uniformed like a military unit, albeit rarely with heavy weapons. Equally important is that this force has no loyalty or sworn duty to the People or even the Nation. Their duty is, first and foremost, to the Party and the State embodied by that Party. These bodies are so imbedded in the fabric of the State that members of this body can become the true rulers of the nation, like in the Soviet Union where the KGB became so all-pervasive that it was able to launch a coup attempt in 1991 to try and stop the liberalization of the USSR.
Aspects of these characteristics can be shared by many other systems. Populism and Nationalism are very common Right Wing ideals while Populism is also a common Left Wing ideal. Militarism and paramilitary police forces crop up in virtually every form of authoritarianism and many also include a subordination of the individual to the state. But Fascist states embody all of these concepts, while other ideologies do not. Other ideologies may embody some of them but only Fascism has them all. And in this way, The Imperium of Man is absolutely fascist. It ticks every single box on the list and does so in SPADES.
Pinned comment.
@Buster-McTunder well damn...thank you for even taking the time to read my ramblings.
Fascism isn't a uniquely right wing. There are plenty of Left Wing fascist states, like the Soviet Union, People’s Republic of China.
The Imperium is a sort of beaurecratic fascist theocracy.
No that's not what fascism means. The USSR was authoritarian, but not fascist. I'm reasonably sure the modern state of China isn't exactly fascist. It has some pseudo-fascistic tendencies but it lacks the overt anticommunism and it isnt quite palingenetic in its ultra-nationalism. It's brutal, even ethno-nationalist given its discrimination against religious and cultural minorities in favour of trying to homogenize the culture into a han Chinese national identity. It's got a lot of similarities but not quite fascist, as such.
@@seekingabsolution1907 anti-communism isn't actually a defining feature of fascism. It's a common thread in right-wing fascism but it isn't a requirement. I made a very lengthy description of the core fundamentals of fascism.
A better example I would say of fascism or something similar emerging within a left or rather formerly left wing party, is the Khemer Rouge, in Cambodia. Though they abandoned left wing economics at the same time they started resembling fascists so it's not a perfect example.
@@seekingabsolution1907 economic policy has nothing to do with fascism. As I say, I've made a post in which I define the core attributes of fascism. Economic policy isn't a common factor between fascist regimes. Even political hierarchy isn't.
@@seekingabsolution1907 in fact, my explanation of the fundamentals of fascism is the pinned comment of this video.
I'm sorry, is this heresy I hear
No. I presume the imperium is self aware enough to acknowledge that they are very fascistic. At least if any of them know what fascism is.
@@seekingabsolution1907 according to you. Fascism is when the government does stuff. Never mind that there are organizations in the imperium that are outside of it like the inquisition. 😒
@@seekingabsolution1907 nah they are just imperialists, not leftists nationalist (fascists).
@@seekingabsolution1907 The definition of Fascism the guy is using is extremely vague and completely ahistoric. The one Arch uses is more specific and doesn't just accidentally describe half the countries on the planet.
What, a fascist state in futuristic grimdark apocalypse setting where everything sucks????? Who would have thought =.=
Euh, thats the whole point of it.
Hes not brotish btw hes Scandinavian i think english is his second language. He can be quite verbose though
British *
He’s Norwegian.
Me: *hears that Arch made an MLP video* what?
Also me: *finds that the video is actually real* WHAT!?
Harry, You Don't Need to Sell It To Me
I kind of feel like this sort of government is part of how shit the setting is... like, the creators didn't set out to make a fascist government, that's just naturally what they arrived at by making all the worst/darkest choices possible.
I would say it's more along the lines of "you become a monster while fighting monsters" - I can't imagine any other kind of government that could control a galaxy spanning empire in a time of total war. At that scale, the individual becomes little more than a digit to be spent in service of the whole.
"In the grim darkness of the far future, there's enough food and resources for everyone, clean air and accomodation are plentiful, and class conflict has been eradicated and racial equality reigns supreme" doesn't really have the same ring to it. There's no threat there, no all encompassing horror to overcome.
I think part of the appeal is the fact that humanity has its back against the wall, the Imperium is a shithole, and even if humanity somehow manages to win they'll be this mangled mess of a species that is barely recognizable by today's standards.
But yeah, totally fascist.
Yeah there’s nothing *wrong* per se with it being that way, it’s Grimdark, it’s 40k I expect them to be evil. But just denying that for the sake of making Fascism sound less bad is… strange at best.
@@Buster-McTunder
Except it doesn't make fa-cism sound less bad to say that not even the Grim Dark future of 40k is fa-cist.
You took this as a defense of fa-cism because you are ideologically captive. This is a defense of 40k and a rejection of fa-cism.
You calling everything fa-cism makes something which is horrendous less horrendous. Making the word meaningless all because you can't learn a new term. There are other forms of government besides fa-cism and soc-ism.
@@Buster-McTundera lot of things Arch says sounds"... Strange at best."
Actually the Pope is the King of Vatican city so he is a facist
The Pope controls Vatican City it is an absolute monarchy he doesn't have a lot of power, but being ruler of the smallest country in the world is still power.
Look, I just want the trains to run on time and humble the Chaos Gods. Don't care what you call it.
Not really possible with the imperium of man. Or with mussolini's fascism for that matter, the trains only ran for the brief time that it was rhetorically useful for mussolini. When the government shifted focus (mostly to war) the trains went back to normal. Fascists don't make things to last. They make things for spectacle.
Isn't the whole reason your able to create your own Space Marines because the trains DON'T run on time? The bureaucratic process has legit lost entire Space Marine chapters. The God blessed angels that are the mightiest warriors in the universe? We just lost them No idea what happened to em.
While I don't always care for his ideas and acts very child like, I'd suggest those who want to know more on Arch from Majorkill with his video on him to understand what I mean when I say he is very polarizing even by 40k community standards: th-cam.com/video/a2NmStm-Qs4/w-d-xo.html And for anyone who wants a good overview on the history of the skull symbol I'd suggest this video in question: th-cam.com/video/Qtcpr3Kg6tc/w-d-xo.html This guy explains so much of the history it holds both in the ye olden days context and the modern day context. From the Prussian military state history to the age of piracy, fascism from the 1940s, modern day militaries, police, the punisher, and how the Alt Right uses it.
... okay. We know.
IRREGARDLESS!! HERECY!
So?
Go ahead and contact Arch for a debate then instead of just saying “he wrong cuz reasons”
I don’t have any issue with that.
Plus the response was a lot more than “cuz reasons,” but you’d only be able to tell if you were paying attention.
Helldivers vs Killzone Helghast
I do think you give Heinlein too little credit. He was a famously individualist person and much of his writings emphasize that. While the Terran Federation of Starship Troopers is absolutely an unequal and social darwinist group, it's hardly fascist.
“Unequal and social darwinist” is just defining fascism without saying fascism.
@@diamondmetal3062 not entirely. An unequal a social. Darwinist system can be fascist but it is not, in and of itself, fascist.
@@nicholaswalsh4462 I fail to see how a system of might-makes-right can be anything other than fascist, mate.
@diamondmetal3062 because Fascism is more than just "might makes right". We are talking about an Ideology that can vary from the Anti-Semitic ethno-nationalism of Nazism to the Catholic centered Spanish traditionalism of Francoist Spain and then to the other extreme of the Soviet Union.
The most central tenets of fascism are: the absolute primacy of the State over the individual, rampant militarism, nationalist sentiment, some propagandized Other to justify the militarism and the deprivation of the People, and a heavily militarized, overly influential Police Force.
@@nicholaswalsh4462Yes, and a lot of fascist nations throughout history, Francoist Spain included, all tied those back to the idea of might-makes-right. It’s because they believed that “other” was weak, that they were somehow hindering them. Germany had their various undesirables, Italy had a few but mostly communists, and Japan had any Asian who wasn’t Japanese.
Also I’m not sure why you roped the Soviets into that. They had a highly centralized government, but the way they ran their country was almost antithetical to the likes of the nazis.
im not sure how wikipedia came to that definition of fascist, but its not correct. so every argument youre basing on that definition is probably wrong.
it's close to other dictionary definitions
@@user-kg2jw3we6b go to the library and find a dictionary from 1995, dont look on the internet where people can edit things to serve their purposes
I wouldn’t even say that it’s fascist it’s imperialistic that’s its own set of worms granted but fascism and imperialism are two different forms of government. An emperor cannot be a dictator because the two terms mean different things. What the Empire is a monarchy.
and thats why they're based
"...Annand thaaaannn?"
Imagine calling an absolute monarchy in space a fascist state
It is literally a facist state the entire fucking setting started out as a satire of facism obviously it’s different now because its serious and no longer satire but the origins and the setting itself will never escape the original intent facist satire
It is a fascist state. Monarchism and Fascism are not mutually exclusive.
@@nicholaswalsh4462 Authoritarian monarchy ≠ Fascism.
Do you even know what Fascism is?
@justinianthegreat1444 I quite literally wrote and lengthy and detailed explanation of what fascism is.
@justinianthegreat1444 authoritarian monarchy can, in fact, be fascist. All fascism is authoritarian but not all authoritarianism is fascism.
Trust us we know glory to the imperium
I thought the imperium of man was a medieval feudalist federation like the Holy Roman Empire but in space
It’s a mix match of a bunch of different things but most importantly of all, it is fascist.
"To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable."
Bro it's not fascist bro trust me bro.
True. it's not. Fascism wasn't even the worst idea practiced in the 20th century let alone all of human history.
@@loltwest9423No it kinda was.
@@loltwest9423 It's in the top two worst forms of governments..
Isn’t Arch the guy who got in trouble a little while ago for spouting unironic nazi talking points?
I keep seeing this up. And while it’s not surprising based on his opinions in the video we reacted to; I’m curious to see if we have a link or something pointing to it?
Edit; nvm done some digging on my own and happy to see there’s many a compendium pointing this all out, www.reddit.com/r/Sigmarxism/comments/grhqcg/tired_of_telling_people_arch_warhammer_is_altright/
@@Buster-McTunder Sorry, anything from Sigmarxism is instantly trash-tier and propaganda. Anyone who proports to be a Marxist is a lying propagandists who isn't worth listening to, even if there is truth to what they say, because they do not speak truth with an intent to be honest, they speak it as a tool to further their political goals.
Marxists deserve nothing but the dirt they'll lie in.
Propaganda would imply that it was all fake and forged to make Arch look bad, but that’s not what’s going on here.
If you write someone off and defend another on nothing but the basis of a bias towards one political wing over the other, you make yourself blind in a world of nuance.
Hey buster, im here on behalf of Rouga Rabid and Operation Space Monkey and was sent to ask you to possibly reach out to Rouga and maybe collaborate to create a DOOM demons vs. destiny and/or 40K video.
I’m easiest to reach on Instagram or Discord linked on the channel/in the description
Since your opening of the video shows that you openly admit you don't watch the entire video, I can skip watching your entire video, and I can just as easily tell you that you're wrong. You fail to comprehend the point he is making. TL;DR: they aren't remotely the same.
I was in the chat box. We went through the points beat by beat. He has too many fallacies to keep his facts straight. All he does is move the goal post and put the fascist tag wwwaayy too high to even make the same point. To say the Imperium of Man is not fascist is like saying Hitler was in some way a hero. Heroes don't commit mass genocide on a big scale. Heroes don't purposely target certain minority groups in the name of the danger of the other. The Imperium of Man kills mutants because they breathe wrong. They purposely slaughter millions of their own to keep the population in order and frighten. They purposely blow up worlds because there's Chaos, xeno, heretics, and all other used phrases. The meta states they are the worst form of human kind under an oppressive totalitarian regime who worship a God who doesn't treat humans like humans down to the fandom titling him as a sociopath. Yes, they're doing this to protect and save humanity, but so did the Nazis.
@@jalejablonsky2396the difference is that the imperium has a much broader in-group than real world fascists do. Their in group covers most of what would be considered all humans in the real world present day, except of course, for poor people, religious dissenters, and left wing political actors, whom the imperium still despises. To the best of my knowledge theyre not explicitely queer-phobic in universe and not always depicted as sexist to the same extent real fascists are. However, this is a consequence of the size and scope of the setting, who needs to discriminate based on language or nationality when you have extraterrestrial lifeforms with vastly divergent biology and sometimes psychology to demonize and genocide. Who needs to create arbitrary racial distinctions based on phenotypes like eye, hair, or skin colour when you have genetically engineered post humans to make up your innately superior ruling class, etc etc.
The imperium is fascism adjusted for an interstellar empire
He isn't really making a point. He's just lying explicitly or lying by omission. Relying on the ignorance of his audience about how fascism actually works. But please, tell us what point he was making if I missed anything.
Love when a fascist uses the words of another fascist to lie about what fascism really is
@@Buster-McTunder love when a leftists calls someone they don’t like a “fascist” like they actually know what fascism even is lol. Even George Orwell wrote about how the term was used to to such a extent that it became practically meaningless when he was alive. 🤡
Hey, it might be bad, but at least the Emperor protects!