Pitting the Vex Against the Tyranids (Destiny v Warhammer 40k)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 5 ก.ย. 2024
- Would they fight? Would they kiss? Would they become an amalgamation of flesh and metal that takes over the universe? Let's find out!
(For legal reasons no Carmines were killed in the making of this video).
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The thing about the Vex is that without the Guardians in this scenario, they already won. They are the end of everything.
They already have won multiple times, in fact they are the reason why the destiny universe have dark and light powers
Yep, They survived many patterns and won, They were in the First and escaped it.
@@fudwgemarim pretty sure they arent the reason for light and dark powers in our world cause they cant really simulate paracausality like the guardians, hive winnower and gardener. Yes they were created during the game between winnower and gardener but they never had the ability to control those powers
@@pencilduster2938 oh no i meant in the context of the gardener and winnower reason for making themselves a thing in the universe is because the vex keeps on winning every single game and the gardener wanting something new to happen
Basically, if u follow the laws of physics, the VEX can predict literally every possible future to perfection. The only thing they have to do is take the path that they win
The Tyranids watching as their peak of evolution gets gunned down by the Vex equivalent of a construction worker.
@@cryamistellimek9184 This would literally never happen though seeing as the Cabal can stalemate them lmao
@jacklennox2358 The Cabal can't stalemate them. They can only stalemate the grunts. The Vex aren't focused on adapting to the Cabal, they are focused on Guardians. This was proved in the lore tab where a single vex goblin created 227 clones of the people researching it
@@HugeHaddock What in the non-sequitur is this? What does a Goblin creating 227 copies of the Ishtar researchers have to do with the fact the Virgo Prohibition were explicitly stated to be in a LOSING war of attrition with the Cabal?
@@HugeHaddock Also, if their focus is on Guardians, then what does this have anything to do with the simulated Ishtar scientists, centuries before Lightbearers even existed?
@@Boopity7739 it's because the vex don't procieve the cabal as enough of a threat to their grand plan as the guardians so they don't put much resource into fighting the cabal
I don't think the tyranids can evolve fast enough or even complex enough that the Vex cannot assimilated. The Vex can probably even assimilate the Flood super cell.
Also Tyranids are quite frankly the best things for Vex To fight, while yes they indeed use psychers, they don’t use them creatively. Only akin to artillery.
The vex will simulate and predict the Hive’s plan, and add to the fact that Radiolaria fluid is both highly toxic and a terraforming agent. The Tyranids would be in constant agony attempting to adapt against it but sooner or later they’ll become Vex.
I don't think they could. Reason? Logic Plague and don't forget, Radiolaria IS organic. So I think the main part of that matchup would be about the floods interaction with radiolaria.
@@steeldragon9041 logic plague wouldn't work because they are organic. But from my understanding, radiolaria is literally a death sentence to anything it touches. I'd like to think since the flood is essentially the precursors in new form that this fact would make a difference but I've seen these two matches play out in videos and the Vex have the long game.
The Flood is not stagnant. They are a lot more proactive, crafty, cunning, ruthless, efficient, and calculating then you think they are. Do not underestimate the Eldritch pathogen who defeated a 3 million system empire civilization whose sciences, infrastructure, cohesion, military assets, and courses of action and war fleet which was more capable for galaxy wide travel then the Dark Age of Technology humanity were. Eldritch overmind whose knowledge remembers all it's past experiences as it grows stronger and doesn't forget and the one who fought against and often won against many strategic and logistic intelligent ais smarter and with faster processing power then the vast majority of Ais in Warhammer 40k. Even the Vex should not downplay a Gravemind's intelligence and witts.
So basically, Vex come down to this: do you have a power they cannot simulate? If not, you are completely hard countered, gg--they know every action you will ever take for the rest of your life, down to even your internal thoughts (one dinky little Vex Goblin infamously did this to a team of researchers who had captured it for study, simulating 227 copies of each of them to the point of being indistinguishable from the originals). They have infinite time and processing power and they will use all of it to kill you and turn you into more Vex.
The reason they have not completely dominated the Destiny universe is that there are powers in it that actively defy simulation, due to their paracausal (read: magical) nature. The Light and the Darkness are the two most obvious, plus whatever it is the Ahamkara are doing (Ahamkara vs. Orks would be a fun video idea) and maybe some other things I'm not thinking of.
The Vex have come very, very close to figuring it out at some points--that was basically the plot of Curse of Osiris, as I recall, but also they got far enough to figure out how to suppress Saint-14 which was how he originally died, and Guardians like Kabr and Praedyth have also had problems with them. Plus whatever is going on with them in Echoes right now.
So, the question is: for any force you pit against the Vex, do they have a power that defies causality?
I know a lot more Destiny lore than I do 40k, but offhand it sounds like Tyranid adaptation might fit the bill. At the very least they wield some of the powers in 40k that most resemble paracausality. But also, much like the Vex, we don't really have a good idea of what the upper limit is on what the Tyranid can accomplish. As much as the "mutual assimilation" theory feels like a copout (albeit a terrifying one), I can't confidently claim either would win in a war of mutual extinction.
The Vex will eventually beat anything not supernatural.
*Paracausal
@@VoxAstra-qk4jzSpace Magic*
@@VoxAstra-qk4jz paracausal is the same thing
@@omage3457 Paracausal specifically refers to the ability to control one's own fate (their _Destiny_ even). The vex rely on their prediction engines, and the only reason they have not won already is the guardians' ability to forge their own destiny.
@@omage3457 not to get nerdy but no, yes you may have heard a Mr fruit video where blue said "space magic Johnson" but that's not really how it works,
I'm decently into the lore of Warhammer and the only beings that I have seen in the story that have had marked effects on the reality and fate of the universe are the primarchs they literally change the future and that's what the guardians do, and as an example the vex can simulate everything the only things that they really struggle with are paracausal creatures. Everything else it's perfect accuracy and the vex we see are construction workers and they can simulate hundreds of people at the same time for of simulations for each individual unit,
I know how the warp works unless you have something from recent history that says the average warp user can change predicted futures and reality in general then I would take it back but I'm pretty sure that's not the case considering the plethora of characters that could see the future and couldn't do anything to change it and knew the universe was going down and it took Papa Smurf coming back to give hope to the universe again.
Good video, but one thing to point out: the Aegis in the Vault of Glass IS Kabir. He used his Light to influence the transformation into something that could help other Guardians succeed.
Great example of guardians deciding their fate.
Quite literally the only reason we won in that raid.
Quite literally the homie who still helps after death
The vex radolaria can assimilate anything it touches. People, planets, anything. Hell the stuff is regularly used to to terraform away inorganic and organic matter. My guess is that upon interaction with the tyranids they would most definitely overwrite them. The hybridization idea would likely only come from directly interacting with the hive mind.
Even the vex frames themselves I remember a lore entry saying that the armor from the vault of glass made out of vex started to fuse and altering thoughts
It's also Vexified guardians
Vexified tyranids would be absolutely terrifying
@@nyaneko6691that’s I think how kabir the titan who was the first to enter the vault died he took vex parts made it into his armour (the titan raid set) and it corrupted his mind and body, the same for Asher the old IO vender where he came into contact with the vex on IO and his arm was converted into a vex arm and it had begun to alter him
Also we know the vex win in a lot of different timelines where they’re able to win they defeated everything else (I think season of dawn and curse of Osiris go into this dark future)
@@awesomeguy9513So Kabr did something arguably worse then use Vex parts for Armor-He straight drank Radiolaria. Specifically, he drank an Oracle from the Vault of Glass. Also If I recall correctly, I believe there is a lore tab in which Asher Mir’s ghost was also transform into a Vex Amalgamation through Radiolarian contact.
The vex are maybe the most overpowered alien race to ever be in a video game, they are quite literally the end of all time. If it weren’t for paracausality (the ability to break the laws of the universe) then the vex would have already won. The only reason the vex have yet to take over the entire universe, is because guardians are impossible for vex to properly analyze. Vex cannot comprehend and foresee anything paracasaul, so guardians are quite literally the only force able to take them on. Anything else is screwed beyond belief.
Guardians AND all the other users of paracausal powers, they've been revealing a lot about other races which had used the Light and the Dark
To be fair, the Vex are fully capable of winning regardeless, they can supress light, time travel, have who knows how many factory unineverses at their disposal and so on. I think the only reason the Guardians seem to have a chance is becouse the Vex are letting them, as test subjects, they want to replicate paracausality. If the Vex ever decide that it's not worth it or that the paracausal races are too much of a threat, regardless of the quality of the units they can produce, they have near infinite resources, they ARE going to win.
@@jacobbanks5006 what I find even crazier is that we know that the Vex have conquered other star systems based on how the Glassway is a portal to an entire solar system turned into a Vex factory.
The vex could easily destroy the guardians if they took them seriously, but they don't, they don't really care about us so they just keep sending more construction bots since they can make more faster then we can destroy them.
A single of the vexs elite could probably take the last city but they don't care enough to send one.
@@omage34572082 Volantis is a dyson swarm built around a blue giant, it isn’t a solar system. Besides, 40k has Chaos demons the size of multiple solar systems.
The Vex out-simulated a limited number of Taken. It wouldn't just be probable for them to simulate and assimilate the Tyranids, I'd say they likely already did.
They likely did the second they entered the 40K universe to make sure nothing gets the drop on them
The only real chance the Tyranids have is if the hive mind is capable of paracausality.
That’s how Guardians are able to combat the Vex on their own turf.
@@codyconnor6981guardians make their own fate
They did? I don't remember that
@@codyconnor6981oh fr? How so? I legit don’t remember that being the case but I coulda forgotten
A few things to mention about the Vex. Namely, their abilities in the physical plain. Radioloria is a very potent substance, and unlike most biomass does the opposite of what the Tyranids would want. It would start changing them into Vex. As a result of that, the Vex would most likely gain more knowledge on how the hive fleet would work, and adapt accordingly.
There is also the issue of Vex worlds. Let’s Mercury for example. Before, it was a garden world. However, in the early days of the Dark Age the Vex had arrived and completely terraformed Mercury into the barren desert like world we know today. And they did that supposedly in a few days-weeks. Meaning, that it doesn’t matter if a Tyranid strips down a world for its own growth, the Vex would most likely be able to move in and terraform it to how they see fit.
And when do they, Vex installations are incredibly hard to remove or destroy. Energy shields, laser arrays, giant pools of vex milk, the list continues. Certain forces like the Cabal can do it, yeah, but eventually they hit a stone wall with either the Vex’s tech, their forces, or other factors. An example is the Infinite forest, where a group of cabal sent to retrieve the map from the Tree of Probabilities got stuck forever, relieving the same moment in time. The hand cannon DFA’s lore tab confirms that.
Speaking of, it’s not just the Vault of Glass the vex had total authority in. Most of their installations they have total authority in. The vault was more or less an experiment, bridging time travel with the real world. Someplace like the Infinite forest, you are perma screwed unless you are a guardian or paracausal in some way.
also worth mentioning that the vex we’ve fought for the past ten years have been construction workers and farmers compared to the units in the actual vex “military”
Except wyverns, those are soldiers even if they are some of the lowest ranking they still are extremely powerful
@@Parmesan.314 yeah after us messing with them a few too many times we see basically their foot soldier and it's one of the most annoying things we face 😂 and it's really funny when you think of it that way because like Osiris was running around the infinite forest for like a hundred or 200 years in outside time but like thousands of years inside of there and they couldn't care less about sending their real brutes to deal with us they just sent that.
@@lostnemesis however, we are soon to be ripping off one of their guns and turning it into an auto rifle
There are no soldier vex.
@@checal according to Calus yes there are.
This is a very well crafted existential crisis.
the Vex got this. not only is radiolaria able to alter anything that comes in contact with it (bad for nids that assimilate by eating), but on top the nids have no protection against the vex prediction capabilities and cant mess up their simulations, or do anything to stop them from pulling from other timelines for reinforcments if needed.
Given there are literally stories specifically about people eating radiolaria and getting turned into Vex, I think it's pretty clear they have this in the bag lmao.
Even if the tyrnids could get into the vex network they’re screwed as the vex network plays be the vex’s rules guardians survive due to the light/dark if the tyrnids don’t have that they get wiped
And here we go again!
As per usual, this comment will serve to give commentary on the Vex side of things about presented statements / assertions.
While it is true that the ontological weapons of the Vex have rarely been seen outside of the vault, there have been occasions! Both in Season of wish with the Sol Divisive manifesting enhanced resonance oracles able to somewhat predict the actions of guardians / Taranis, an Ahamkara and in destiny one for the revamp of The Nexus Venus strike, where the central boss was upgraded with the Templar's invulnerable shield (Albeit, that version of the boss was Taken.)
While the oracles couldn't delete Guardians from existence, they could still predict actions to a degree, and the invulnerable shield was fully functional.
On the note of Vex predictions about Guardians, their ability to simulate guardians is *limited*, not outright an impossibility. If nowhere else, we see this in the opening cutscene of the Curse of Osiris DLC, where a fireteam's raid against the Vault of Glass is recreated by the Vex. It's not so much that Guardians and other entities of powerful paracasuality are impossible to understand, just that their powers make it near-impossible to do so.
Of course, that means that the Vex should rightfully struggle to understand the psychic powers the Tyranids display... at first, at least.
With enough exposure, and especially if Tyranid forms were to be infected with Vex Radioloria, that may change but that's a hypothetical. An example of the Vex managing to better simulate a being with physics-breaking powers would be Quoria coming to understand Oryx's throne world and the sword logic.
Also, while the Tyranids may not be keen on attacking the terraformed machine worlds of the Vex for the same reasons they do not the Necrons... the Vex would still attack them with as much immediacy as they do everything else on any encounter.
The only instances we've ever had of the Vex not immediately attacking things are when they are specifically trying to get that entity to help them, like with the Player Guardian's third venture into the vault of glass during the Taken War. Another example would be with Clovis Bray's excursions on Europa through a man-made Vex gateway, but even that did result in an attack in due time after a more subtle route was originally chosen.
As for them reaching an equilibrium... I don't believe that would be possible. While this may change soon with the current Act going on, Echoes, the Vex of the past are very dead set on remaining Vex and Vex alone; Its even noted by the Hive as being odd that the Vex never tried to ingest a Hive Worm to gain power or anything of that like. The only Vex collective that actually did alter themselves in any way was the Sol divisive, which are specifically noted several times as being the exception. Of course, it could be written that a certain Vex collective would try to bond with the Tyranids as a path to bringing about the pattern and surviving all things, but this could not be the case for all of them, and I still find it unlikely.
The reason why I find it so unlikely is because the Vex infection isn't able to be stopped as far as we know. I am fully aware of the obscene adaptiveness of the Tyranid hivemind and its ability to alter Biomass as it sees fit to counter any foe -- But, the Vex's radioloria is so obscenely potent that it is considered incurable even by Guardians (Both in the case of Kabr, and Asher Mir). Guardians, who can be recreated from complete atomization with a brand new body, can't just destroy their own bodies and be rebuilt like nothing ever happened when it comes to Vex infection.
This is likely because the Vex infection isn't just a physical thing. While yes the primary way in which infection happens is through ingestion or contact with the Vex's fluid, that is not all they are. A quote from the Vex 4 grimoire card:
"The cellular Vex elements are infectious, hallucinogenic, entheogenic. The informational Vex elements are more dangerous yet- and there could be semiotic hazards beyond them, aggressive ideas, Vex who exist without a substrate. Even now, operating remote bodies by neural link, the team's thoughts are relayed through the warmind who saved them, sandboxed and scrubbed for hazards. Their real bodies are safe in the Academy, protected by distance and neural firewall."
From organic to inorganic, all things are eventually turned into Vex -- Even ideas.
But even putting that aside, I just... don't see how the Tyranids would be able to overcome the Vex's infection if even complete reconstruction of a body from nothing can't.
@@Revision-Harrowed honestly, I feel like this video drastically underestimates the Vex. It also doesn’t take into account the Vex network which is basically a pocket dimension the Vex can just go into and I heavily doubt the tyranids could ever access.
@@omage3457 Well, I'd say they could probably find an active gate after some time of fighting given even lightless exos on Europe eventually managed to overcome the forces on Europa at the time. Of course, I agree the Vex would win, but they don't have anything like the Hive that just outright locks being out of the VexNet and the Tyranids do have alot of brute force to throw around.
So what I'm getting from this is that Vex are not just things transformed by radiolarian fluid, but they also have some extent of the Weeping Angels' ontological ability?
@@GM_Neo Pretty much, yeah.
The nids physically couldn’t replicate as fast as the vex. They have entire universes that were consumed and made into replicators, like a universe sized factory, you physically can’t beat them
Me when I lie:
@@Boopity7739the vex already have dominion over several timelines. Not galaxy, not universes, timelines.
If there's a single faction that very easily outscale 40k in terms of sheer manpower, it's the vex.
Also, as of now every single vex we've encountered in destiny were the vex equivalent of construction workers and general laborer, besides one type (wyverns)
@@Jet-ij9zc yeah if anything I lowballed it
@@Jet-ij9zc Read the lore again - the Vex we’ve encountered are not mere workers. They have construction as their primary function, yes, but TTK explicitly states that they all have combat as a secondary function.
Also, betting on a questionable statement from an unreliable narrator like Calus is NOT a source.
The tyrannids have consumed multiple universes…
The Vex are probably the most interesting faction in Destiny due to the fact that they probably could have already won, if not for the fact that they always follow a pattern. You’re absolutely correct in your assumption that the Vex would likely just wait out a Tyranid invasion since time literally means nothing to them, but they would generally defend anything they find difficult to replace I.e. the Infinite Forest, or gateways to the Black Garden. The Tyrant Vex theory seems unlikely due to one major detail you overlooked: the Vex HATE change. It’s why the Echoes intro mission is so interesting: something landed on a Vex world and is forcing the Vex to change, both in form and behavior. The Vex are far more likely to study the Tyranids and shove a small hive into a simulation engine so they could learn in a more controlled environment.
In the end, it would come down to a “which hive mind could subsume the other” scenario if they did combine, but the Vex would likely not see much point in it and cut their losses.
The only real reason why they haven't won is due to Paracausal beings existing in the destiny universe that basically says nu-huh
to the Vexes plans such as the Guardians, the Hive, the Worms,
the Nightmares, the Taken, the Dread, the Wrathborn, the Scorn, the Disciples of the Witness such as Rhulk, Nezarec, Calus, the Witness, the Ahamakara, the Traveler and the Veil. The only reason why they been funny in Echoes is because of the Echo itself which item of immense power being a item fused with Darkness and Light which being a item of those conquered or culled by the Witness which is speculated by Ikora and Osirus the memories of those given form by the Darkness and Light colliding in such a way because the Darkness has powers based on memories and the Light gives shape and form to any who wield it but anyway I digress. Since Tyranids are not Paracausal beings the Vex are gonna have field day with them .
Tyranids have no names characters or plot armor: Vex win. @@cherryshark9170
I mean, it's literally canon that before light and dark were added to the flower game, the Vex were always the Victor's no matter what because nothing could stand against them.
Definitely have the most interesting concept, but in application the Hive is so so so much more interesting. The main issue why k see it that way is just because the Vex have always been on the back burner unlike the hive.
Everyone in the comments mentioning the Vex’s capabilities to simulate their enemies and assimilate other lifeforms, but everyone forgets that the Vex also have access to the Vex net which is a pocket sub-dimension that the Vex can move into from the real world.
Some things i want to point out from what i have heard from Mynameisbyf (lore dad of destiny) the vex were lart of the flower game, something played.out by the Gardener and the Winnower. The flower game was stagnant, it played out the same and ended the same. Eventually, the Gardener wanted to add a new variable to the game to change it up. The Winnower did not like this and something happened between two of them. Some lore on the aftermath of said confrontation of the two is said to have basically caused a tree of silver wings (what happens when you mix light and darkness), to have been cut down. In the vex's home, the black garden stands what looks like a GIANT tree stump. It is implied that the vex came from the black garden since that is where the Winnower and the Gardener did their flower game most likely.
Another thing that impies this is the vex's obsession with patterns which ties into the flower game, before the fight between Gardener and Winnower, the flower game would play out exactly the same every time, like a pattern.
Thinking about it from this angle: if paracausality works due to intervention from outside the bounds of the current iteration of Destiny's universe, what does that say about the Tyranid? Aren't they thought to be extradimensional or something?
@@life-destiny1196 thought not known but they operate on a loose principle of evolution. We have no idea what to base light/darkness powers on.
@@life-destiny1196 Even if they're Extradimensional, they aren't PARACAUSAL, and that's the big point of the matter. The Vex can't simulate something that's outside of the Laws of Cause and Effect (i.e.. Causality), the Tyranids, even if Extradimensional, are still bound by the Laws of Cause and Effect. The Light and Darkness, The Gardener and The Winnower, aren't just extradimensional, but outside of Causality itself.
@@steeldragon9041 from my understanding light powers hold basis in the very fabric of the universe. Creating and destroying anything and everything on the physical plane, while darkness is more of the meta-physical, but both light and dark are powers that have been around since/ caused the very universe itself, and guardians are given the ability to tap into those powers. So guardians literally wield the powers that were responsible for pretty much everything that exists.
@@jahronman573 yes light is to turn thought into reality so to say and make it physical while darkness is everything of the mind, thought. I'm talking about rooting these into scientific categories we understand the basic principles of, like evolution and such
Adeptus Mechanicus: "Finally, a worthy opponent. Our battle will be Legendary!"
The flesh is inferior
Counter: when something drinks vex milk, 1: they don’t maintain any part of what they were once the process is complete, and 2: it is literally drinking the vex themselves, the vex are microscopic entities that live inside the vex milk, the bodies you fight in game are just convenient metal constructs. Also, the vex that we have fought, weren’t even made for battle, Minotaurs in particular were literally made for construction, and they pretty regularly overpower guardians. So I think it’s significantly more likely for the vex to completely devour the tyranid swarm and completely convert them into vex as they torture their minds for eternity.
Guardians: “FU BIG HAMMER OF THUNDER”
Vex- “WTF”
You kinda fuck up as soon as you get to the Vex. They can and do fuck with time outside of the vault and forest, constantly. A lot of their weapons do this too. I also don’t see how they could ever lose, they outnumber the Nids
exactly lmao, lorewise tyranids are evolving to reach perfection while the vex are what happens when you let a creature evolve for eternity. The vex are the perfect organism and they would never integrate a tyranid into their composition because it would be inefficient.
@@umocnicdiscographydictumri4578 More or less sums it up, there's also more Vex than nids. It's such a massive difference in power the Nids will never get a chance to overcome it
@@umocnicdiscographydictumri4578 Yet they’d integrate the likes of Asher Mir..?
Gahd damn! The combination theory is the craziest shit I've ever heard!
Tyranids hitting the Shrek GIF when they first hear about Vex Milk lmao
(psst, I think it's pronounced "ka-beer" in some voice lines. just fyi)
After sharing the Destiny vs 40k with a friend more well-versed in 40k lore than I am, he was very confident that the Tyranid beat most things, and when he started talking about why I was like "wait you're just describing the Vex." Glad I'm not the only one who noted the similarity there, despite Tyranid looking more like Hive than anything.
And on that note: I'm requesting Ahamkara vs. Orks. The Ahamkara are basically shapeshifting-dragon-meets-manipulative-genie creatures who feed on the difference between "reality as is" and "reality as desired," granting wishes that often lead to great suffering on the recipient's end. They were so dangerous that the Vanguard hunted them to the brink of extinction rather than let the (notoriously rather power-hungry and sometimes unwise) Guardians use them freely. Even dead, their bones still do the thing, albeit toned down a lot.
The Orks are... themselves. What does a bored Ork do when presented with this power?
Yeah, I know a lot about Destiny and a lot about Warhammer 40k, and my first thought when I saw this video title was "FINALLY! A WORTHY OPPONENT! OUR BATTLE WILL BE LEGENDARY!" because of all of the forces in Warhammer 40k, the Tyranids (and MAYBE the Necrons) have the best bet at going up against the Destiny Universe.
Also, imagine a Tyranid-Hive Guardian.
Bruh, Ahamkara are broken the Orks WAAAAAGH isn't how you think, it HAS limited Reality Bending, Wishing doesn't The Ahamkara are a Trancendent Race the go even levels of Metafiction.
Ahamkara vs Orks would be unfair, because:
1. Ahamkara twist any wish they grant to their summoners so that the summoners will always be harmed.
2. Ahamkara can still grant wishes even in death.
The Orks would've been fucked if they attempt to interact with an Ahamkara, regardless if they have good intentions.
If anything even if one ahamkara were to come into contact with orks it'd wish into existence the greatest possible waaaagh
@@Morimoder
Wishing is an Double Edge sword
The only thing that I see the vex legitimately having trouble simulating would be the hivemind itself. It is literally so huge and nebulous that that alone while not guarantee victory would make vex victory extremely difficult.
Honestly you're on the right track.❤ This is literally my biggest problem with the video. Although the video is pretty good and the guy obviously had done a decent amount of research he neglected to mention the biggest advantage the Tyranids have. Like, you are more right than you think you are. You're of course not obligated to listen to my rambling but I am gonna do that anyway because I haven't seen It being mentioned even once throughout this entire comment section with your comment getting the closest. The Hive Mind literally cannot be predicted because It is paracausal. Basically the warp in 40k is a dimension that doesn't follow logic or rules It is basically a realm where physics are replaced with paracausality. Time, space and destiny are mere suggestions to the warp. Souls in 40k by their very nature are paracausal because they are linked to and basically form the warp. The Hive Mind is not just all the nids linked together, the Hive Mind is the nids. What a lot of people get wrong is that the Tyranids are not a species they are in fact a disease, infection, virus, whatever you want to call them. The Hive Mind is the collective soul of the Tyranids, the shadow in the warp is literally when enough Tyranids arrive the collective hyper soul that is the Hive Mind dominates that part of the warp. The Warp literally exists outside time and space, outside logic and reason, outside destiny and fate, this is why future predictions, foresight, fate Itself are all constantly challenged or outright broken. The biggest one being the resurrection of Gulliman but It is far from the only one, like the Primarch's bending destiny, Yarrick using a metal ork claw, Dante breaking the prophecy and surviving death. The Hive Mind exists within the Warp and unlike the emperor or chaos can directly micro manage all the Tyranid life forms because they are the extensions of the Hive Mind even more than deamons are extensions of their chaos deities. Because when a deamon is created the chaos god separates a part of their hyper soul to make a new warp entity but when the Hive Mind makes a new nid It separates a part of It's collective biomass to instead create a new vessel for It's soul to fullfil a specific role in the material world. The Hive Mind by definition is a paracausal entity that directly controls every organism under It's command starting with nid microorganisms and ending with biotitans. The Vex will be unable to predict the Nids just like the guardians, perhaps even less due to a lack of individuality and personality of the Tyranids, meanwhile the Hive Mind will be able to adapt to the always repeating patterns the Vex always follow. So interestingly enough the Tyranids will be the ones with the tactical and strategic advantage as the Vex cannot compute and by extension cannot predict a paracausal supercomputer that is the Tyranid Hive Mind.
Before I even watch this video I just have got to say that the vex win in every outcome
so many people leave such huge comments. the vex win. no question.
They don’t though
@@Boopity7739 bruh. so a machine race...ok..with perfect prediction capability. with unlimited numbers and TERRAFORMING capabilities. against adaptable and intelligent bug reptile things. ok bro
@@kruziikalignore them the dudes fighting for his life for the bugs in these comments, god damn xeno lover
@@kruziikal Their prediction evidently isn’t perfect seeing as the Cabal have stalemated them on Mars. What does terraforming have to do with this? The Tyranids strip entire worlds biospheres off in literal hours.
@@Boopity7739 if everyworld they come into contact to get terraformed into vex there is no biosphere to collect. no ammo. and vex have garanteed unlimited numbers and prediction tech. what's the point in adapting if they just already know ur adaptation lol and counter it. vex are op especially against these guys
I think the vex would almost instantly kill alot of tyranids thanks to the prediction engine. Also, the vex would probably know that the tyranids operate like a hive since the vex are very similar, so the vex would probably locate the hive mind and deal with it. Then kill the tyranids from the top commanders so that it is easier to kill low level tyranids, then probably deal with the rest of the 40K factions (I might have missed something since I don't know all the lore, I'm just using what I know and see as the basis for my take)
That’s assuming the nids don’t use the warp…
The warp is…….. difficult to explain. It’s a realm, the cause of magic in 40k, and is has depth to it so vast it dwarfs destiny. Not to mention the necrons and the meme lords within. Warhammer infact has more shenanigans than destiny.
The vex may actually be stamped out considering there are many entities in the wh40k universe that have foresight.
It seems pretty unanimous that between time foolery and the unique nature of the Vex’s bio matter, our favorite milk bots seem to take the advantage over the Tyranids.
There's 1 difficult aspect in regards to the Vex as a fighting force. As far as it goes within the canon lore of Destiny, we have never actually faced the full military might of the Vex. If we take the dialogue from Emporer Calus as a serious source during the Menagerie visits , he proclaims that what Guardians have faced up to this point is not the height of the Vex power. He said they were merely the equivalent of construction workers and managers. Sometime later the first official " soldier" would be the Wyvern unit and in context of video game gameplay, its a scary unit!
Another thing to consider , even if just a fringe case is that the Vex is willing to ask for help when they need it.
During The Taken King expansion, there was a side quest where the Vex allowed a trapped Guardian to communicate with us from the Vault of Glass to call in for help to clean up their vault from the newly arrived Taken. The Vex were unable to handle the situation themselves, understood that we don't like the Taken either and invited us in. Should the Vex find themselves in W40K, they might ask the Orcs or someone else for help.
Tyranids: "yum delicious milk"
Vex: "How tf you still alive?"
I always forget that some marines helped the tau fend off the tyranids
Right!
So that's a horrifying thought. Good job!
Once again I have been summoned by the clashing of my favorite game universes. As such when I am at lunch today at work, I will weigh in with my lore.
Sorry, but I'll have to respectfully disagree here, fun as the idea is.
Here's the thing about the Vex. They're not impossible to beat, contrary to what some people might claim. They can't properly time travel despite having access to pathways through certain mirrored/alternate timelines, and while their simulations are close to a cheat code they aren't foolproof. The issue is more that the Vex brute force these simulations. In other words, they have such powerful computation engines that they can accurately simulate thousands if not millions of timelines in parallel, enabling them to account for just about every conceivable variable... but the problem is that there are cases where no amount of planning is going to help you. Instances where superior military force just can't be stopped and the like. The Cabal dealt with the Vex on Mercury in this very fashion with the Almighty, and the Eliksni are tech savvy enough that they've been able to infiltrate and even take control of Vex technology at times like when Skolas managed to break into the Vault of Glass and the local Vex couldn't stop him - they instead simply cleared a path for the Guardian to deal with the problem rather than bothering with it themselves. The Light and Dark are problems for them to simulate just because they rewrite the laws of reality on a whim, but given enough time and effort the Vex CAN simulate it as they've successfully done so a handful of times with the Taken... and while it took centuries they did eventually manage to simulate Saint-14's Light well enough to develop a way of siphoning it away so they could kill him.
That said... the Tyranids aren't winning this just by virtue of what they are. Radiolaria isn't simply toxic. The Vex themselves have origins going back to if not predating the start of the universe itself, having escaped from the Black Garden as part of the Final Shape that kept emerging from the flower game between the Winnower and the Gardener (deep lore, fascinating stuff but only here to give you and idea of the scales involved). Left to their own devices? Volantis - the oldest star system known to be under Vex control and where they came from before arriving in Sol - had megastructures several AU across, objects large enough to blot out the distant stars looking outwards from the system's center. Nothing in Warhammer comes remotely close to the engineering the Vex have on display here. To quote something I saw a while ago; everyone in Destiny is playing Minecraft while the Vex are running modded Stellaris. Nothing we've seen in the games is a "combat unit". They're just the janitors, construction drones that have been repurposed as a fighting force while the Vex Collective goes around terraforming planets into machine worlds to fit their patterns. A proper military campaign to squash out a threat to the Collective itself would involve nothing we've ever seen in Destiny.
And the thing is they wouldn't have to do it, either. Again, radiolaria isn't just toxic. It converts. And it's not the type of conversion one can simply "adapt an immunity to". Guardians are by definition immune to all diseases due to their regenerative/resurrective style of immortality, and even Ghosts couldn't fix what was being done to Asher Mir as his arm was simply changed into something Vex. They couldn't undo his blood turning into radiolaria. The entire point of the Vex - going back to that flower game where the same pattern keeps emerging over and over - is that everything will be /them/ by the time the universe goes cold. The Tyranids can't eat them. They can't absorb them without being converted themselves.
The issue with the Kabr comparison is that while the Light can't undo the Vex transformation it can slow it down. Give the victim a fighting chance to retain their individuality or stall the process, at least until they're exposed to radiolaria again. For Asher he actually maintained his sense of "self" for a time in the network after willingly allowing the Vex to convert him into a Harpy, solely to collaborate with the Collective in simulating the Veil and allowing both the Vex - and us through post-mortem messages - to understand what the Witness was doing. For Kabr, his Light was strong enough to guide the transformation so he could eventually turn himself into a weapon of Light and help whoever came into the Vault after him. But without Light or Darkness, the power to simply decide what reality is or to at least impose your will upon it to a degree? The Tyranids would have no way of resisting such exposure. Biology can only go so far to try and adapt to something that even rewriting laws of reality couldn't fix. Meanwhile Vex tools are portal guns that yank plasma from distant starts to throw at their foes. If a Bolter or sword can put Tyranids down I'm pretty sure plasma can, something that's close to the top of damage types even in 40K itself.
The Vex will ignore organics that just don't get in their way. But the Tyranids? Nothing about them fits whatever pattern it is the Vex are pursuing. They'd be converted wholesale rather than being allowed to convert the Vex in turn since even aberrant Vex that develop a sense of self are violently ejected or imprisoned from the network - they're not going to tolerate an outside influence that can't be made to "fit" with the Vex's idea of perfection as they see it. That is to say, themselves.
The Black Garden is NOT The Garden where the Flower Games and Gardener and Winnower reside but the Vex Origin dates back to the First Pattern, or even before Everything, Gardener and Winnowers fight created Universes to many Omniverses.
@@MarcusWright-si5vv All signs point to the Black Garden being that very place, a place that exists outside of time and space as we know it. Going back to when we first entered it - it's not on Mars nor is it on Luna despite both having gates to it, and our Ghost couldn't even begin to tell us where we were. Just because we know how to get there doesn't mean it's "normal", no more than the Vault of Glass was which technically inhabited multiple separate and intersecting timelines at once. That mesa in the back where Garden of Salvation ends? That's not rock. It's a tree stump, and it's heavily implied to be what was left of the Tree of Silver Wings that the Winnower and Gardener felled in the Unveiling book during their first conflict when they went their separate ways following the new rules for the flower game.
@@slate8409 Read my comment "The Black Garden is NOT The Garden where the Flower Games and Gardener and Winnower reside" Lore clearly stated it and Taken and the like are in The Black Garden...........The actual one resides in a plane of existence Above The Flower Game.
@@MarcusWright-si5vv What evidence do you have to suggest that? As in specific lore tabs and books to point to? Passages and excerpts? I have about five that all back up the idea that the Black Garden is that place. Even Lore Daddy Byf seems to be of the opinion that it and the Black Garden are one and the same.
One the note of reading comments you clearly didn’t read mine. The Black Garden exists outside of normal time and space. It’s not “just a location we go to”. It’s not on Mars, it’s not on Luna. Far as we can tell it’s not even in the solar system or the same plane of existence.
@@slate8409 I heavily agree with this. This video and a lot of similar ones heavily underestimate the Vex which gives the opponent an advantage.
All it takes is a single tyrannid to touch radiolaria and its all over for them.
Yeah, for the tyrannids
@@benjaminsterberg548thats what I meant
@@Vavalry thx for clarifying, i was just a tiny bit confused of what side you ment was over with.
the Vex? now that just unfair...
in the end, there will only be Vex, they assimilate absolutely, the Tyranids will fall, because in the end, there can only be Vex.
The nids have space magic. Also the warp is a thing. Would take too long to explain
This is matchup I've been waiting for two unstoppable forces. Which one deserves the medal for most unstoppable nightmare inducing race
Food for thought: I don’t know if you’ve already done this, but you thought about 40k vs Warframe?
I feel like Warframe would win. Aren't some frames near omnipotent?
@@HugeHaddock well, not THAT powerful. But still pretty powerful. I’d say that a Prime Warframe might be able to be evenly matched with a Primarch. The Primarch would still probably win, but it’ll be fun to watch.
Vex win because there's no biomass for the Tyranids to consume, and the Vex have the numbers. As much as I love 40k, Destiny takes the win here.
The Tyranids do not need to consume organic matter, they can eat Necrons.
@@Boopity7739 a fundamental misunderstanding of how the Tyranids work. They don't eat to kill, they eat to consume biomass in order to evolve. Necrons have no biomass, so they aren't eaten. Clawed, shredded, or blasted by chitin projectiles? Yes. Eaten? No. Next time, don't argue with a Tyranid player.
Not really, at least not in this particular case. After doing my research to get some extra context I genuinely believe that Tyranids are unironicly the best suited 40k faction to not only face but even defeat the Vex. Although the video is pretty good and the guy obviously had done a decent amount of research he neglected to mention the biggest advantage the Tyranids have. You're of course not obligated to listen to my rambling but I am gonna do that anyway because I haven't seen It being mentioned even once throughout this entire comment section. The Hive Mind literally cannot be predicted because It is paracausal. Basically the warp in 40k is a dimension that doesn't follow logic or rules, It is basically a realm where physics are replaced with paracausality. Time, space and destiny are mere suggestions to the warp. Souls in 40k by their very nature are paracausal because they are linked to and basically form the warp. The Hive Mind is not just all the nids linked together, the Hive Mind is the nids. What a lot of people get wrong, even 40k fans is that the Tyranids are not a species they are in fact a disease, infection, virus, whatever you want to call them. The Hive Mind is the collective soul of the Tyranids, the shadow in the warp is literally when enough Tyranids arrive the collective hyper soul that is the Hive Mind dominates that part of the warp. The Warp literally exists outside time and space, outside logic and reason, outside destiny and fate, this is why future predictions, foresight, fate Itself are all constantly challenged or outright broken, especially after the great rift flooded the galaxy with a whole lot of warp energy. The biggest one being the resurrection of Gulliman but It is far from the only one, like the Primarch's bending destiny, Yarrick using a metal ork claw, Dante breaking the prophecy and surviving literal death. The Hive Mind exists within the Warp and unlike the emperor or chaos can directly micro manage all the Tyranid life forms because they are the extensions of the Hive Mind even more than deamons are extensions of their chaos deities. Because when a deamon is created the chaos god separates a part of their hyper soul to make a new warp entity but when the Hive Mind makes a new nid It separates a part of It's collective biomass to instead create a new vessel for It's soul to fullfil a specific role in the material world. Which is why a deamon can rebel while a nid can only go feral, because It literally loses It's soul and mind, as a result It only follows It's basic bio programmed instincts. The Hive Mind by definition is a paracausal entity that directly controls every organism under It's command starting with nid microorganisms and ending with biotitans. The Vex will be unable to predict the Nids just like the guardians, perhaps even less due to a lack of individuality and personality of the Tyranids as they are vessels, not people, meanwhile the Hive Mind will be able to adapt to the always repeating patterns the Vex always follow. So interestingly enough the Tyranids will be the ones with the tactical and strategic advantage as the Vex cannot compute and by extension cannot predict a paracausal supercomputer that is the Tyranid Hive Mind.
As an OG solar Titan... The fuck you big hammer made me smile
It also kinda matters where it takes place because on a vex assimilated world where radiolaria can be redirected it is very highly guaranteed vex victory
At the end, the battle would be reduced to if the warp can be simulated, since the Tyranids can use the warp they could have the same advantage the guardians have IF the warp can't be simulated
Tyranids can be psychers, but they actively block out the warp with the shadow caused by the hive mind, which I think would ultimately would work against them.
Causality is a hell of a drug
A relationship that is stronger than the gods themselves
The Infinite Forest would have the bugs simulated to the max with 0 issues.
Let's fuckin go I been waiting for this
I’m terrified yet intrigued
also whats funny the one vex the hydrogoblin or whatever its called is basicly a telephone to commicate with other vex across distances infintly
after watching the video, the fusion seems like a possible outcome after all the sol divisive's plan to ensure survival was to side with the witness and try to bond itself to it, there for if the witness had won, they would have won
I think that the vex would not tolerate being assimilated into the tyraninds even if it it mutual. The most likely outcome that I see is the vex rapidly convert worlds (it only took a day to complete convert mercury) and these converted wourlds would be impossible for the tyraninds to take over because to consume raidolaria would mean changing into vex and separation from the hive mind. This is true even if the tyraninds cannot be simulated. They are playing a losing game and cannot take back any land once they lost, eventually they will lose it all
It depends on what vex mind they fight at the time. Because atheon may be one of the strongest frames, but at the end of the day he was basically a manager and a bunch of workers not a general. Wyverns are the only war vex frame that we know of. Also the vex could push the network to the outside world like they did the endless night, so who knows how far they could push that.
A great video I would highly recommend would be INVICTA
Who breaks down the true size and scale as well as visual representation of how a Tyranid invasion looks like and it is horrifying to say the absolute least
I would love to see a speculation of the witness or the prismatic guardian vs warhammer enemies, or even the winnower vs the chaos gods
I... think that the "Tyranid Prime" you're talking about is the Norn Queens that 'print' the various Tyranid organisms, as the term 'Tyranid Prime' just refers to leader-organisms of smaller broods. And 'Alpha' organisms are the ones made specifically by Norn Queens as counters to specific problems.
I mean, if the vex could potentially wipe the floor with the Forerunners from Halo, nothing in 40k would be able to match them.
Also on a technicality, the vex can simulate paracausality, Panopties from Curse of Osiris won. Even against the guardians. Basically without the right prices on the board, the vex will eventually just steam roll you.
The Vex couldn’t beat the Forerunners from Halo.
I see that bungie have fucked the vex lore so much that yall cant even get it right...
No the people in the comments just have zero clue what they’re talking about.
If the Vex could potentially simulate the Tyranids in a simulation they can create several Axis Minds to counter them similar to Saint-14 when they created *Agioktis, Martyr Mind* to disable his light and kill him. and even then we haven't even seen the combat unit Vex besides the Wyverns they'll be facing workers
I love seeing new vs videos don’t get me wrong but you probably should have held off doing a vex one as I believe they are in the process of getting some major lore atm. Anyway keep up the good work 👍
So basically they combine into the Phyrexians from MTG? Noice
The main problem fighting against vex is they are literally everywhere every when and not to mention the only combat form we’ve seen is wyvern. The others are just construction workers basically while yes the Nids can evolve I don’t think they’d evolve fast enough
They own time if they lose one war doesn't mean they lost
The nids have space magic…
Vex would simply go back in time to the origin of tyranid DNA and un-reality it
So why haven’t they done that with literally any of the races in Destiny like the Eliksni and Cabal? Oh, right - you’re just making shit up.
@@Boopity7739because the vex don’t see those races as threats. Just temporary pests.
@@Boopity7739They can quite literally rewrite reality, which is what they’ve done various amount of times in the past, kinda of how like osiris and the guardian has to stop this vex guy from rewriting time and reality itself, it’s also said that the harpy dudes at one of the encounters within the vault of glass quite literally erase you out of existence, and as well as the ability of being able to control and warp time within the vault of glass
@@Boopity7739none of it isn’t made up, as elsie bray has said before, multiple realities and timelines have fallen to the vex, the vex are quite literally a threat on a multiversal scale
@@Boopity7739As to why they haven’t done so in the past? Well, i could explain the lore as to why they didn’t do so
The Tyranids are how I imagine Light if left unchecked. Pure, unlimited evolution
you got stuff mixed up because you just described the vex. The vex arrived from a time before paracausality existed from a time before time where they evolved for an eternity to be shaped into what they are. You cannot out evolve the vex because they are perfection in a world like warhammer where everything can be calculated.
@@umocnicdiscographydictumri4578warhammer has space magic
To put into perspective In destiny we’ve only fought construction robots and the only type of weapons unit (wyvern) we’ve fought is like just a backup for the builders (goblins) while working
*Panoptes from Curse Of Osiris has entered the chat* .
This is I pretty cool idea but it doesn’t really make much sense because your conclusion is based on the idea that the vex and tyranids have relatively the same end goal, they don’t. You said the tyranid’s end goal is to expand and consume everything in the known universe, that is nothing like what the vex ultimately want. The end goal of the vex is the be that last remaining being in the universe, to beat the flower game. There is only one faction of vex the has ever allied with another force other than the vex themselves and that was the vex in the black garden, they witnessed the incalculable power of the black heart and came to the conclusion that if they want to survive till the end of the universe, they must ally with the darkness. Because of this alliance made between this faction of vex and the darkness all other vex actively avoid these darkness vex and have basically cut them off from the main network. If any vex attempted to ally with the tyranids they would either be terminated or completely isolated from other vex. The only faction of vex that could arguably be changing their end goal is the coral vex, but that is because they are being directly manipulated by the echo, a paracausal force. And just like the vex from the black garden, these coral vex are being avoided and isolated from other vex factions because of their behaviors straying from the pattern.
One more thing, I understand your argument about how the tyranids may be simply too complex for the vex to simulate but unfortunately that isn’t true, under the right conditions the vex have simulated a warmind, something so complex and powerful that at a point it was seen as a threat the Traveler. The reason the vex can’t simulate paracausal beings isn’t because they are so complex, it’s because they can actively defy the laws of time and right their own fate making it so the vex can’t manipulate or simulate them, unless put under the correct conditions like the infinite forest and vault of glass which, mind you, are literally constructs that exist outside of time and space. No matter how biologically complex the tyranids are that doesn’t mean they’re paracausal, meaning the vex have full control over their fate and timeline.
I wonder if the vex would be able to program and come up with a mind similar to quoria to understand the evolution of the tyranids, the sword logic is probably significantly simpler but I wouldn’t put it past the vex. The combination idea is also cool I would love to try to fight the tyrant vex as a guardian that learned psycher powers or something
The vex genuinely is the scariest and biggest threats in destiny history, they won multiple times against not only guardians but others too. The vex is the destiny equivalent of the terminators, but on a grander scale
It feels like if the two factions merged, they'd be IMO an analog to the Phyrexians from Magic: the Gathering lore.
Fun fact about the vex, the ONLY “military” archetype is the wyvern… the rest are just builders and scanners 😭
I'm pretty sure that's just a common misconception. The Vex don't have military units, those "builders and farmers" are also the military units. They're designed to be able to carry out standard work and to fight back against threats. Wyverns are indeed warrior archetypes, but things like Minotaurs are too, Wyverns are just more specialized for combat
@@forwarduntodawn.This is correct. TTK points out that the ALL Vex have combat as a secondary function, meant to fight any threats to their constructs.
The one weakness of the vex is their inability to simulate paracausality, their inability to simulate things that break the laws of the universe if you will. The tyranids blocking out the warp, something that distorts and changes reality, would be their biggest weakness. Because then, the vex can simulate them. And it doesnt matter how fast the they evolve, they can still simulate them, and every mutation that they could ever produce.
But, on the other hand, because tyranids can evolve to become phsycers, the vex could not simulate that part. It would become more of like the guardians of earth, where the vex can not simulate them, and can not predict them.
Though because of the lack of well… typically biomatter, other then radiolaria and the metal vex are made from, it would be kinda difficult for the tyranids to properly consume the vex. Maybe im wrong about that part, but im basing that off because the tyranids avoid the necrons, and they entirely metal.
I think the vex would win for the most part, but that not to say it would be easy. The tyranids would put up a good fight.
40k psychic powers and the warp are not paracausal. A lot of warp phenomoma follow the rules of the setting including the laws of cause and effect, paracausal abilities work by the entity in question attempting to pull some bullshit off like pulling a grenade out of thin air and canonically that shouldn't work but it does anyway.
@@edwardhealey591still, we’ve seen in Destiny that psychics of a high enough caliber can single handedly force the Vex onto the back foot. I think a Tyranid tendril specialized for psychic combat could push the Vex for a minute. But I agree that the Tyranids wouldn’t be able to convert or resist radiolaria conversion and probably become calculable to the Vex after sufficient exposure.
@@jeffy1862 It isn't about being able to force them back, its that without being able to bypass the vex's prediction abilities by some means the Vex have already won as they know eveything that happens and can fully simulate the universe making it theirs.
@@jeffy1862I don't think even a Psyker Tyranid could prevent the Vex from simulating said outcome since the Tyranids need to evolve to gain Psyker abilities, and as you said, the Vex can simulate and see every single possible outcome that the Tyranids could ever possibly do. The reason Paracausality is different is because it's akin to a seven year old changing the rules of a game on the fly to make themselves win and everyone else around them lose in the process. There is no pattern. The Tyranids still have to adhere to a pattern that the Vex can simulate and read.
@@lordpumpkinhead265 That’s part of the reason why I gave win to the vex. Psionics can be effective against the Vex for a time, but once they quantify it, the fight is over. The Tyranids would have to peel off to gather more biomass to continue the fight which would ultimately leave the Vex with a leisurely amount of time to learn how to calculate and eliminate them.
Minor nitpick, the demon core itself would not give you radiation sickness, the demon core needs to be surrounded by beryllium reflectors to go prompt critical, without those, it would just be a very heavy sphere that you probably wouldn't want to eat, but won't kill you instantly.
Who would win? One hungry boi or one milky boi?
a destiny tech vs wh40k tech video could be fun. delving into how powerful are the warminds, really, if admech would kneel to clovis bray AI (including if he'd even reveal that information), how much damage SIVA could do, what the golden age vs age of technology looks like, the various exotics weapons, etc. only issue, i guess, would be the limited amount of technology covered in destiny, but its a novel idea.
Rasputin was able to compute at superluminal speeds, which is massively above 40k which relies on astropaths for FTL communication. The Exo program is akin to something that even the Necrontyr couldn’t figure out, and SIVA is arguably more advanced than Necrodermis which is one of the most advanced materials in 40k. Generally Destiny tech is more advanced outside of the Necrons / Eldar
3 most likely options i could see is either in order of likeliness, given i am a huge destiny fan and daily have been learning more and more about 40k lore, would be:
1 Vex win
2 fusion/assimilation/hybridization
3 a stalemate
Love the combination theory, but my guess is that it would just end up like Kabyr. They temporarily fuse and then the Vex take full control. I don’t see any reason the Vex would need biological forms considering their entire existence is based around surviving infinitely. Just my thoughts as someone who literally has only learned of the 40k universe from these videos ❤
Rip Tyranids
Maybe the Vex vs the Mind Flayers at their peak, when they had conquered multiple infinite planes, including godlike beings, and planned to march on the various afterlife’s before their little slave rebellion.
This is a really rough matchup for Tyranids. The Vex are the final shape at the end of the Flower Game, they are cold unfeeling prediction engines designed over aeons of perpetual conquest to absolutely annihilate other forms of life
Not really, at least not as much as you think. Although the video is pretty good and the guy obviously had done a decent amount of research he neglected to mention the biggest advantage the Tyranids have. You're of course not obligated to listen to my rambling but I am gonna do that anyway because I haven't seen It being mentioned even once throughout this entire comment section. The Hive Mind literally cannot be predicted because It is paracausal. Basically the warp in 40k is a dimension that doesn't follow logic or rules It is basically a realm where physics are replaced with paracausality. Time, space and destiny are mere suggestions to the warp. Souls in 40k by their very nature are paracausal because they are linked to and basically form the warp. The Hive Mind is not just all the nids linked together, the Hive Mind is the nids. What a lot of people get wrong is that the Tyranids are not a species they are in fact a disease, infection, virus, whatever you want to call them. The Hive Mind is the collective soul of the Tyranids, the shadow in the warp is literally when enough Tyranids arrive the collective hyper soul that is the Hive Mind dominates that part of the warp. The Warp literally exists outside time and space, outside logic and reason, outside destiny and fate, this is why future predictions, foresight, fate Itself are all constantly challenged or outright broken. The biggest one being the resurrection of Gulliman but It is far from the only one, like the Primarch's bending destiny, Yarrick using a metal ork claw, Dante breaking the prophecy and surviving literally dying. The Hive Mind exists within the Warp but unlike the emperor or chaos can directly micro manage all the Tyranid life forms because they are the extensions of the Hive Mind even more than deamons are extensions of their chaos deities. Because when a deamon is created the chaos god separates a part of their hyper soul to make a new warp entity but when the Hive Mind makes a new nid It separates a part of It's collective biomass to instead create a new vessel for It's soul to fullfil a specific role in the material world. The Hive Mind by definition is a paracausal entity that directly controls every organism under It's command starting with nid microorganisms and ending with biotitans. The Vex will be unable to predict the Nids just like the guardians, perhaps even less due to a lack of individuality and personality of the Tyranids, meanwhile the Hive Mind will be able to adapt to the always repeating patterns the Vex always follow. So interestingly enough the Tyranids will be the ones with the tactical and strategic advantage as the Vex cannot compute and by extension cannot predict a paracausal supercomputer that is the Tyranid Hive Mind.
Helldivers vs Killzone Helghast
What about Gears vs Helghast?
@@Glitchedpixel5 Gears don’t really have space fairing capabilities
Helldivers would destroy... They have black hole creation. They would just drop dark matter and wipe shit.
@@ParrishT3 well like the Helldivers vs Gears of war video let’s just pretend they don’t have that
So... this is the Synthesis ending from Mass Effect 3, but far more terrifying.
Using Nid bioforms as vex Frames is inspired!
Plus, it opens up the possibility for a "good ending"
Chief Librarian Tigirius of the Ultramarines has made limited contact with the hive mind and was able to understand it at a basic level.
The Vex have asked for our help before, and some people assimilated by the vex have maintained their sense of self within the Network (such as Failsafe's Captain and Asher Mir)
The two combined might mean that actual contact with the grand intelligence of the TyraVex is eventually possible. Assimilated intelligences acting as intermediaries and translators.
Swaying the will of the great assimilator probably isn't possible, but persuading it to consume you last might be...
The bed would win but it would just take awhile
No one really knows where the Vex come from, we say the Black Garden but lets be real that still does seem true. Other then that Vex are time travelers and they can build massive super computers that just run infinitely simulated realities, all day every day. Theres no evolution that can beat that.
I think that is a good theory, but if it doesn't go that way, the Vex would probably win.
Vex vs orks
the tyranids would get wrecked, since far as i know they are NOT paracausal, the one thing they could not actually predict or simulate
The vex wouldnt even need to kill or assimilate the tyranids. They could just trap them in a perfect simulation that is indistinguishable from true reality as has happened with several characters in destiny. The tyranids have a lot of numbers, but the vex literally have conquered entire universes, have perfected time travel, and can simulate anything that isnt the light or darkness, and even then its not like they didnt try to, with the black heart existing
That isn’t how Vex simulations work. You don’t get trapped, it creates clones of you inside the Vex network. The actual person being simulated has no idea of this, hence why the Ishtar team only discovered they were being simulated after careful analysis of the Goblin.
Another way to think of it:
Tyranids are Chaotic, Vex are Lawful.
Demons are Chaotic, Devils are Lawful.
Demons are a swarm, Tyranids are a swarm.
Devils are few but are annoying to kill, Vex are... okay we don't know how many Vex there are but they are annoying to kill and keep dead.
So it'd be the Blood War but in space if they fought. It'd be an eternal stalemate that it is in the best interest of everyone in the universe it stays that way forever.... Assuming the Vex couldn't make a Tyranid Mind to figure them out and assimilate their chaos into order...
Now do the flood vs the tyranids
Interesting Matchup. The Tyranids are changing to adapt to anything while the Vex are changing everything so they dont have to adapt anything.
Though the Vex have perfect simulations in just every single unit, can use every matter to make more of them and have time travel. Kinda hard to beat an uncorruptable enemy that makes you a part of them
Also combination is an unlikely idea. While it could work like that, the Vex really don't do any compromises. They will turn everything into them and I doubt they will only do half a job of the tyranids. What probably would happen is that the Vex develop new adaptable units for combat so that they can more easily do their thing, but only after completely overtaking the Tyranids. Also the Vex could just write themselves as being everywhere and suddenly they have been there all the time. Isn't time travel fun
I would give this to the Vex, not only do they have greater stats for combat purposes, but their abilities to assimilate cosmoses would be second to none, The only reason they have trouble this time around is because the Destiny universe is Paracausal and they operate outside their bounds of simulations.
The Tyranids maybe formidable in the sense of adaptation and consumption of life from galaxy to galaxy, I do not believe they are paracausal nor the universe they exist in. So it really depends on where they start out which would give the Tyranids time to settle in. But even then, it would only be a matter of time before the Vex overwhelm them.
Wait I thought Tyranids were the bugs in Helldivers. I know he said Bio Titan! I for sure hear that from Helldivers!
(Maybe its copied and slightly changed homework)
The real bitch of it is because I am yet again a destiny fan, the only things that the Vex can't compute are paracausal so basically you have to be able to change reality when reality is warping for them to not be able get you completely,
So that brings me back to my previous thoughts the only things that would be able to stop them would be people like guilliman and the lion, but then the problem for them is they would be facing another unending hoard that can turn planets into giant computers that endlessly produce more and act as things to see the future with perfect accuracy, so against the tyranids they would win incredibly easily because they are also beings that can convert biomatter into themselves.
"Pff, the Nids can't time travel and they can't harvest the Vex for organic matt- wait, what about the actual Vex. What if..oh no. OH NO!"
the actual Vex are made of a Silicon type material, so they are safe
plus contact with them would turn Tyranids into a Vex Frame
Given there are literal stories about people specifically eating radiolaria and getting turned into Vex, I don't think the Tyrannids stand even the slightest chance.
Dude vex kill you when you do that. Tyrannical tried to eat a planet with toxic skidded and it had to kill an entire shop just to stop it. Tyranids would die in a matter of minutes and then become more vex.
It’s not every day I feel bad for tyranids. 😅
The Tyranids can be millions, trillions or whatever you want all unique and yet they all will be simulated and adapted the same, every pattern, every adaptation they can come up with has already been foreseen by the Vex because they simply are not outside the rules of the universe, all they do is "natural" evolution speed up by 11.
At that moment the whole thing comes down to whether the Vex decide to deploy their ontological weapons (the ones that can wipe you from the timeline without the vault of glass) or the actual soldier units.
I think the scenario stated in the video would be the end result, but there would be an intermediate stage where the Vex trail the Tyranid hive fleets and use radiolaria infection to turn the leftover husks of worlds in the Tyranids' wake into fortresses, and in return, the Hive Fleets would gain a powerful rearguard which they usually somewhat lack. Once everything else other than them is devoured, THEN we would get the Vex-Tyranid fusions, though the Vex would likely be the more dominant partner. The synthesis probably wouldn't come about through a war, but rather both factions understanding that their existence is mutually beneficial.
I’m ngl to you I couldn’t disagree more, that the ‘Nids are NOT Vex, thus they cannot exist at the end of the pattern, sure they’d prolly be subsumed at the end and we could see synthesised Nid/vex creatures shuffling about, but in the end it’ll be Vex, and not tyranids running about.
Am I going crazy? Wasnt there a "could the vex survive 40k" video? What happened to that guy?