This is the pattern with my mom I am breaking free from. I feel like she uses me as her therapist, support system, comforter and protector from issues with my dad and narcissistic family members. I honestly feel used abused and then betrayed a lot by her. It has been way too hard on me and cost me way too much. I now tell her maybe some professional support could help her because I can’t be her therapist anymore, but she won’t seek it, so I have to step away. She doesn’t like that I now keep boundaries and say no, and gets mad that she can’t control me. Makes me wonder if she is narcissistic too. Prioritizing my well being and individuation. I’m not responsible for her or the family. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
That's been my journey as well. I tried for 2 years whilst going through the qorst time in my own life. All I needed was for her to step up just this once, to just understand where I'm coming from. Instead I got contempt disdain and a boat load of other stuff. I think my mother is covert. ✌
Everyone has narcissistic patterns (traits). Your mother might be suffering from complex post-traumatic stress response. She is looking for someone to believe her when she trauma dumps on you. She seems desperate and some counseling would do her some good. Maybe she just wants someone to believe her about the truth and others to stop enabling the charming one in the family relationships. I have been to hours of counseling but still find myself trauma dumbing on my daughter and any family or friends who will listen. I agree with your boundaries though. It is killing me softly and I know I will die being the nobody who was not validated or nurtured properly as a young babe and child. I listen to Richard Grannon and Dr. Ramani and have fleas but not NPD. I sometimes believe I am turning into a narcissist when I keep demanding the truth. Keep standing your ground and loving your mom but not her complex trauma response. ❤❤❤
She probably is if she had a baby with an abuser. Those who participate in unhealthy relationship dynamics their whole life tend to normalize the behavior subconsciously, I.e trauma bonds. Also though it could just be your projection of your shadow self since it sounds like you have ur own trauma ur dealing with as well, maybe a mix of both.
My non narcissistic parent left the family when my brother and I were 9 and 10. She left us with the narcissistic parent. This was in the mid 60's when very few people divorced. She had no high school diploma (married my dad at 18), had no money, and worked a minimum wage job. That's how badly she wanted to get away from him. Needless to say, my brother and I had a messed up adult life. Abandoned and emotionally abused makes for a dysfunctional life. Neither of us ever married and my brother ended up a quadriplegic because he became an alcoholic and made really bad decisions. I'm 68 and finally healing from it all.
Well done for your healing journey! ❤❤❤ (my brother turned to drugs for a decade or two). We weren’t physically abused (didn’t need to be as we were terrified of my father) but definitely emotionally abused, particularly witnessing the cruel words & selfish behaviour inflicted on our mother. Thank goodness we can see things more clearly in our latter years! 🍀🍀🍀
Omg! Now I understand why Helen worried that neither of her two children, both boys, would ever marry!! (And neither of them did.. ) The eldest became a narcissist and messed ME up for a while - and his younger brother, who was engaged to marry in his fifties, had a heart attack and died before the wedding date was set.
Wow, I fear for my daughter, who makes bad decisions as well. She did move back but went to a party were drinking took place. She got on the back of a snowmobile and flown 6 feet. After all the abuse from her dad I took care of her for her to tell me fk I and fk off. I'm fine with the divorce, I never wanted to show my daughter that marriage abuse is ok. She I get your other parent. It's an up hill battle. She a parent stay or go.
WOW. All true. I was the chosen one, the middle child, the peacekeeper, the protector, the problem solver, empathetic, and naive. And the caregiver, when everyone else turned their backs on me. Took a long time to understand it and move past it. Not too many people understand this dynamic. I wish I didn't. Thanks.
I was the scapegoat. My Golden Child sister was the narc-in-training of my mother. My narc sister was terrible to my Dad (who was a non-narc). She did not value him at all. She mocked him and was completely disrespectful. I constantly stepped in and took his side. He became a broken man due to the abuse by his wife and my sister. I left home due to the abuse I was getting but I wish I had convinced him to leave that family, even if it meant he move in with me. I didn't know what narcissism was yet, and poor Dad died before we had a label for it.
@@l.5832 my mom volunteered at the court house, domestic violence. I remember a time mom wanted to say something about my narc dad. But she kept quiet. Probably fearing she’d sound crazy! She passed in 2001 and I want to scream!! Mom they have a name for this now!! Mom I understand now!!!
Omg I'm bawling... This is such a horrible unrecognized predicament I relate to and you just addressed it. I feel seen.. You have already saved me for the last two years from unaliving myself but now you're getting to this core wound that I still couldn't express 😢❤
Yes, I'm sorry, me too. A big chunk fell in just now. All of it applies and it explains how I've carried so much guilt in not being able to save my mom over all these years. She ended up retreating into herself at the end so lost was she. I felt so horrible for having to leave the family dynamic at age 29 when I started to see the harm that was happening to me for staying with them. It's a sad thing to have to estrange from one's own parent especially when I already felt that I was the cause of it all . take care 💖
My childhood and adulthood explained 💯 Exactly how I became a codependent people pleaser who ended up marrying a covert community narcissist unbeknownst to me 🤦♀️ I'm so grateful for Dr Ramani and other videos like this, that help us to see the light and start making necessary changes to heal and better ourselves 🙏🏼
I agree. It was a good discussion. I'd love to hear Dr Ramani have a convo w/ Patrick Teahan LICSW (here on YT) because he sees both parents at fault. Here Dr Ramani pointed out why it was so tricky for everyone.
So much of what you described was my lived experience of protecting my mother and being the family peacekeeper/fixer. My parents both lived into their 90's and the elder care (on my own) was really hard and I found myself getting more and more frustrated with my mother for her choices of staying with him and protecting him, yet at the same time feeling guilty for feeling that way - as you say, its complicated
I became my mom's cheerleader, crutch and was parentified because my covert narc therapist dad wouldn't give her the emotional support she needed to heal from her own narc mother and her marriage to him (he medicated me and tried to convince me I was insane from the age of 10). The emotional incest and enmeshment with my mother was legendary. When I went no contact last January I grieved not being able to save her. I tried to protect her first from my own grandmother. My mom was the only one that I felt truly cared for me. But she betrayed me, too. It hurts still to say that, but she showed her own triangulation and manipulation when I tried for years to address things. She was a victim who became a protector of her own abusers. I could not protect her. She didn't want it in the end. And she refused to protect me or my sister. Well, I am protecting my kids.
What a comfort when my narc dad wasn’t home. We would even have a blast with mom! When he showed up both my brothers left the house until dinner. My narc dad played pro football in the 50s. My oldest brother was the golden child. Winning trophies in little league, to diving competitions and a scholarship to college playing football. He moved from Va back to Kansas to attend college. Dropped out and got some land and grew pot. And my narc dad turned him into the new scapegoat! ( we all had our turns btw) Big brother left us way to soon he passed away at 51 years old. What a nice loyal guy he was! Very much missed!! An so Dern intelligent I miss conversations with him. Question is whose life does a nark not fuk up??
I just realized from this video the kind of warped reality my ex boyfriend is living in. He is the golden child for his non-narc mother, and the way you described him feeling like he has a duty to protect her is so real. Its the reason we aren’t together now because he feels such a strong duty to protecting his family from his dad. I still love him and it hurt so much when we ended things. I just hope he gets out of there someday and finds himself 😞
You are brave to say it ❤ nothing worth doing is easy! Our children though were never ours to begin with, they belong to the world we are just here to support them and sometimes guide them, that’s all.
As a non narcissist parent, I needed to hear this, I am in the middle of the separation and this is happening , my teenage son found a lot of stuff , Im sick of this and my narc taking over. Right now, narc is out of the house. I hate I didn't see the abuse until now , because all I wanted was the best for my kids and thought I was doing that.
i'm wishing you such luck. it's very hard leaving a narcissist, and i believe that your kids will see that you did the right thing! don't neglect your own trauma through this, and know that as the child of a narc whose parent didn't leave until way later -- i'm proud of you, this took courage!
Wish I could do this. Don't have the finances to leave. Or any support. It always is inspiring to read of others in the process of leaving, or having left. Good on you!
@@KathrynParker-v7y i'm wishing you luck, too. i hope you find yourself in a bounty of resources soon. there are communities out here that are for you, too, that can at least emotionally support and validate you. 🙏🙏
Thank you for putting the words to this out there. This is exactly my relationship with my non-narcissistic mother. I tried to help her leave twice and she never did. She married young, left an abusive home and jumped into the fire. I often prayed that she would have at least a few years at the end of her life in peace without him, but unfortunately, that didn’t happen that as she developed Alzheimer’s. I loved my mother and did desire more time with her but growing up in this dynamic you’re often left to fend yourself as neither parent is really there for you in any significant way.
Your videos have helped me so much. From having an abusive narcissistic brother you've helped me see that it's not me, but them and that in itself is unbelievably liberating. Thank you Dr Ramani
Yes I agree. Liberating! Still hurts, but I can shift quicker from feeling hopeless to happiness, creating joy for myself. 👍🏼 Narcs will exist til the end of time, so I’m kind of grateful for my narc “teacher” bringing narcissism to my attention, now recognizing the traits & when/how to protect my spirit.
In my family with a Narc father, my mother and my oldest sister are his main supply, enablers, and flying monkeys. My mom and sister have a unique bond in their willingness to be abused by him and excuse his behavior. For the rest of us establishing healthy boundaries or no-contact, we are definitely perceived as in the wrong or "too extreme." It's sad because in the grieving of a parent I should have had in the Narc, I also feel like I've lost them too.
Similar to my family. I’m sad with you in the grieving; it IS painful & sucks that your mother & sister unfortunately became “narc zombies”. It is so strange to grieve the loss when they’re still alive. You are NOT in the wrong, your feelings are valid. These things help me get through the days…I write daily in my gratitude journal (shifts my focus from my negative past to real positive stuff in front of me), I do things I enjoy (because we deserve joy), I found a good therapist (had to shop around though) & I consciously surround myself with kind & supportive people (we’re here). 💛
Even if I wasn’t raised by my narcissistic mother, she did a lot of hurt in so little time. My dad was an alcoholic person and he did what he could, but he made sure almost every single night of my childhood to tell me “I’m proud of you” “you’ll accomplish anything you want and don’t let anyone tell you the opposite not even me” and that made me ❤ But sometimes yes I was the emotional support of my father since I didn’t have siblings. I understand myself a lot more thanks to this video ❤
My story!😢 I was a golden child of my non/narc mother. I’m not sure who affected my unhealthy journey as an adult more: my mom or my dad. It took me years to start understanding this a little by little. What hurts a lot is a fact that there in no relationship with my siblings at all!!! They were always jealous of my relationship with mom having no idea of what cost it was. I would trade it with a pleasure if I could. They are both grown up healthier than me, and struggle less in their adult lives. And I feel like I am left alone in this life. So painful, the grief is real.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I feel seen in ways I had never been able to put into words. I was definitely the golden child of my non-narcissistic parent, but I was also basically an only child from age 12, so I filled multiple roles at different times for both parents. It wasn't until decades later that I realized I didn't really have a mom OR a dad. It's so very messy. Thank you for validating my experience.
It feels very reassuring to first, hear you speak out loud the basic horrible hell that is my family. Also second, how not alone I truly am when I read all the comments of my fellow survivors of intricately complicated circumstances - but we’re all basically in the same boat in the end - victims of or survivors of abuse and childhood trauma. It doesn’t take it away but it does make more sense out of why it is the way it is AFTER the narc abuser stepdad has died and my “non-narc” mom still wants nothing to with me. I thought when the monster was gone, it would be okay. And it isn’t. Then we have my golden child half sister who totally is fitting into that role of taking care of our mom (mentally, not emotionally cuz she’s messed up too) but she definitely doesn’t hide her disdain for me (the scapegoat and problem child who our parents always either abused me (stepdad) or abandoned me for the other child and out of fear of the abusive husband stepdad (mom)). Wow. What a cluster. I can only keep growing inside and evolving and letting go of my stuff so that I can be whole. That’s all I can do. Thanks Dr Ramani and my fellow friends in the comments. ❤
@@ForceVGeneral sorry, but if you’re the GC, you don’t exist without a scapegoat counter (they are not the only roles (larger DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILIES can have mascot, invisible child, but SCAPEGOAT AND GC ONLY COME AS PAIRS - they are the only two essential roles for a narcissistic/toxic and abusive family dynamics. If you’re the GC, which I’ll take you at your word - you have a scapegoat (one who by well reasoned logic - is loud in the absence of their mention). GC’s can’t simultaneously fulfill both scapegoat and GC - except if your drama cup need to be overflowing- I can’t say it’s a surprise though a GC thinking that have “everything put on you (this is a tad beyond but valid for expectations and GC’s) But in the same breath cry wolf as the one who gets everything wrong put on yourself too? (Would love to hear about your “pains” and efforts and sacrifices you have extended to the one who actually gets all the wrong and bad and dysfunction situated within them- the scapegoat. Sorry honey naaaaah not even Jesus be buying what you’re selling when he fresh out o wine and fish. Jokes aside, who’s the scapegoat…it ain’t you, you’re the GC…sibling, relative? Let me say I’m not saying your path was easy but in sharp relief to the carnage caused to the legit scapegoat in your dysfunctional family, being the GC is blessed. Hard but blessed. Remember that.
@@ForceVGeneral because you’re playing scapegoat and GC ROLES simultaneously, and whining about it…whose the real scapegoat in your family? Because you serve GC (plated) in both hemispheres of this world. 🌍
For the last year ive devised a plan, gathered resources, set up my own accounts and saved secretly and now have a plan and date to escape with all my children. It’s hard because the whole family are flying monkeys and don’t understand why I can’t just live this life as a dutiful wife like marriages are meant to be.. Hopefully I can find a way to start over after this planned homelessness. These videos have helped me realize what this is.. and it’s unbelievably accurate! I was shocked! Maybe one day I can use my experience to help others. I’ve even got ideas about how to do it. When I’m safe, I want to maybe make my TH-cam channel about it, but can’t show my face. Thank you.
Oh, my. From my own experience, the burning desire to help others CAN be also a manifestation of the C-PTSD. I wanted to be a therapist and thought I would be a good one because of my stellar empathic skills. But now, in my 70s, after years of psychiatry and therapy, I realize that the intense empathy I always felt was a product of having no boundaries. I realize now that my main "healing job" is to create a safe space for myself in my own mind - and my goal is to heal myself before I die.
I was the scapegoat(permanently). The older stepbrother was the golden child only when he did her bidding. The younger stepbrother was what I called the alternate. He became the golden child when the older stepbrother wasn't around. He became the scapegoat when I wasn't around. For years I thought I got the worst of it being the scapegoat. Then I thought the alternate got the worst of it, because I knew where I stood. Now based on how the golden child's life turned out I think he may have had it worse. The alternate and I got out and went no contact. We both can see the truth. The golden child is still in and can't see the truth, totally brain washed.
@@KaekoickArizona I'd agree. My father was aggressive and I saw it easily so despite the pain and hurt, it's been nowhere near as bad as my mother who smiled at me when I was the 'golden', was neglectful or contemptuous when I wasn't or something bugged her, it messed my head up for decades! So id agree the golden part is sometimes worse ✌️
Only child here too. Yes at times I was the golden child then the helper then the scapegoat in no particular order, changing according to her mood and her circumstances at the moment and if I had done something worthy like an award at school that she could make her own or get supply from.
I loved my father. He was a kind, gentle soul totally overwhelmed by my mom's crazy. His strategy was to withdraw from all of us. In the last couple of years of his life, we developed a relationship. And I realized that my mother had despised me for all of those years because, in many ways, my father and I were alike.
I always protected my mom from my dad and other narcissistic family members, but she betrayed and was also abusive to me so I don’t know if she is also narcissistic. Both my parents parentified me. It’s confusing. Tired of it. I am not responsible for others. Stepping away and prioritizing my well being. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Idk don’t enable them. They should be able to have a healthy relationship with you. Families that don’t that’s not very kind/right. Should not be abusing anyone
This is so sad. I’m watching this play out right now with my boyfriend and his daughter. She has always tried to protect him from her mom even at a young age. At 6, she was the one to tell him about mom’s “new friend”. She knew mom told her to keep it a secret from dad, but she knew it was wrong. During the divorce, her mom wanted to take the dog, and she at 6/7 years old played mediator by saying “mom, you’re already leaving dad alone, just let him keep the dog.” And to this day, she protects him by barely talking about us to her mom and even defending us when her mom makes disparaging comments (which really infuriates mom). Buuuut…. Like you said at the end of the video, I can see the disappointment in her face that dad can’t do more. And he feels terrible that he can’t. There is so much time being lost and it kills him. She always asks him “why can’t I stay with you more?” “Why can’t I go with you there?” “Why can’t you just ask mom to do this or that?” And the best he can do is explain to her “honey, I’m so sorry, you absolutely know that I wish I could…. But your mom…. She makes things really difficult. I just don’t want to fight with her. It will be easier to explain when you are older” And FINALLY at 11 years old, she is starting to look down at the floor dejectedly in response and say “yeah… I know she does…” 😢
Oh wow, thank you for sharing. Your bf’s daughter is super emotionally intelligent. And because she is, she’d definitely benefit from working with a therapist NOW, esp going into her teens, for her own healthy well-being to live as a kid, certainly not to have to feel she has to fix her parents. Dad too. Best of luck for you all.
@ thank you for the advice, and yes she is very mature for her age. Her mothers immaturity has caused her to have to grow up quite fast it seems. I have let him know about the therapy thing before but he asked her if she wanted to go and she seemed like she wasn’t quite ready for that yet. Perhaps as she gets a bit older she will be more open to it, as she now is starting to have more things to talk about and her mom has done things now that she is having a hard time figuring out the reasoning behind. We just try to reassure her that she’s not crazy, that her mom’s behavior in fact doesn’t make sense and that none of it is her fault or has anything to do with her.
@@artsyfartsynerdywordy Beautiful positive support for her. 💛 If interested, there are excellent age-appropriate emotion workbooks you 3 (you, bf & daughter) can explore together. She’s at a great age to learn such communication skills for her self-esteem (because school unfortunately won’t teach kids these life skills).
This sounds so much like my ex and his mother. I have tried to make him aware of this and the negative influence their relationship and her had/has on him and our relationship, but he does not want to acknowled this, he is also very emotionel immature and an extreme people pleaser, but he couldn't bother supporting me or our child and didn't try to take my or our childs needs into considuation.. insteed he used me as his emotionel punshing bag. I'm out of that relationship now, but this relationship broke me into a million pieces, i'm now on my healing journey, trying to find back to who I am and have stronger boundaries, the future looks brighter 😊🙏
I am very grateful for this video Dr. Ramani. I felt alright leaving my country after my non narc parent's death. Just a retrospective observation. At that point I was oblivious.
Thank you again, Dr. Ramani. Your insight truly feels like a bottomless well of knowledge and understanding. I believe I’ve personally experienced the dynamic you describe, perhaps more intensely as an only child, which might magnify its challenges. In this situation, one can simultaneously become the narcissist’s 'scapegoat' and the non-narcissist’s 'golden child'. This dual role can lead to developing a kind of hidden perfectionism-striving to make the non-narcissist proud without provoking the narcissist. Additionally, the non-narcissist’s lifelong effort to supply the narcissist’s needs can push them into questionable behaviors. For instance, if they lose a job or business, they may resort to selling their child’s belongings or taking on unethical side hustles, driven by fear that the narcissist will abandon them if they can’t maintain the idealised lifestyle. This only deepens their shame, which can strain their relationship with their child. For example: to ease their guilt, they might pressure their child to visit and show support for the narcissist. In families where I’ve observed similar dynamics, it seems common for the non-narcissist to die prematurely after years of exhausting themselves trying to uphold the narcissist’s pride while absorbing their shame. Afterward, the narcissist may 'barter' family assets to secure a new caregiving enabler-leaving the entire estate to this 'replacement non-narcissist' instead of their own child or children. So, what’s the solution? Honestly, I believe the legal system exists, at least in part, to curb narcissistic behavior and offer remedies for injustice. You often advise viewers to consult a lawyer, which is excellent guidance. I wonder if you’d ever consider interviewing a legal expert on your channel? It might be inspiring for your viewers to hear about options and relevant case studies. On a personal note, I’m currently in the hospital after literally eating the 'wrong chicken soup'-just hours after I posted about that exact risk. The worst part? No one believes or even seems to consider my story. Thank you again for your incredible and inspiring work. Please allow me an internship with you in LA. :)
I was the scapegoat of a family dynamic like this, my mother always was hyper focused on the two narcs. She would joun in to beat me for false things i was accused of doing, as i grew older the narc got everything as she married and had many children, when i visited, it upset the two narcs, as my mothers attention was diverted to me for the weekend, but my mother hid that, covered for the duo. Towards the end of her life she would defend me, but said "try not to say anything while you are here, or they will give me hell, when youve gone". So i did as she pleaded. When i found out my dog had been beaten by my father and sister (and wasnt limping because of arthritis as i thought)..i felt beteayed by her..as i would have cut them all off, she said she didnt tell me because she wanted her family together...my mother and i were estranged when she died Of course my narc father and sister accused me of killing her from a broken heart. I felt guilty so i stayed to taking carenof my father, thats when the two threatened me with disinheritence..they controlled me with police (false accusations of elder abuse) and when the police through me out they stole all my valuables and the jewellery my mother had put aside for me...and disinherited me. My golden child sister always said that she deserved more because her childhood was taken (my parents were immigrants and need her for english communication, also they worked 7 days a week,and she was tasked with keeping an eye on me (i watched TV, and she beat me in resentment, i was 4-5, and she was bigger 10 yrs older)...she cant see my side at all. my she burn in hell.
Based on the fact that the golden child is more likely to turn into narcissists than others, they actually endured more insecurities than other types of roles.
This is me too. I ended up with an intense trauma bond with my mother and have had a lot of difficulty individuating. I kept getting drawn back into the triangulation and repeated discards when my parents patched things up. So manipulated. Seeing it all clearly but as the GC doing bulk of emotional work and elder care have now been scapegoated by entire family. It totally sucks. Beyond care any more for family unit so determined to make the next 20 years better and manipulation free as I can't change the past only the future.
I watched my family melt down and spend nearly forty years pretend nothing was wrong and leave me in the dark. I knew back then I wasn't the only one affected. I finally know I wasn't the narcissist. I was the Golden Child. Now I get to be the Truth Teller. Because decades of gaslighting is not love. Malicious compliance? I am going to enjoy this with endless glee. Hello absurdity, it's nice to make your acquaintance
the narcissist will use this protective trait of the truth teller child and may blackmail him/her that they will hurt the non narcissistic parent every time
It was exactly my childhood, the mood changed the moment my narcissistic father came home. I was beaten just for being happy. I tried to support my mother and when I was older, to convince her to leave him. Then I moved out to study, she didn't survive him. I would have wished her a few nice years without him. I hate my father to this day.
My narc ex turned my daughter against me. She hasn’t talked to me in 10 years. She was the center of my universe and my puddin. I never saw it coming. It took my ex 15 years to get it done but get it done is exactly what he did. I’ll never recover.
Your daughter is to blame also...she's most likely co-dependent and with mental problems of her own. She made her choice...live your own life as gloriously as you can...you can't MAKE people see/acknowledge toxicity or wrongdoing.
true that and also it can create issues with the narcissistic siblings who then will claim we are treated better than them when in reality it is the opposite. Many people should really avoid having children.
this was me and this is the most accurate description of me ever. l was my mother’s protector, therapist, friend, confidente, it is not until now at late 30’s that l realise how much she abandoned and betrayed me and my loyality out of her own lack of capacity to live. she also displayed narcissistic traits in all her vulnerability and she had NO boundaries and practised emotional incest. for instance she discussed with me how it was to have a daughter with anorexia when l was in fact the daughter with anorexia…
@@tomchurch2285 “inappropriately demanding” sounds like it reads…emotional, sexual, financial, spiritual, psychological, abuse management - who was the least abusive parent…the answer should be none of them…because you don’t abuse anyone, least of all children.
No wonder I was confused on top of more confusion. The twists and turns of chaos and confusion in narcissistic relationships evolve and change according to who is holding what position in the relationship.
Thank you for bringing up possibly having harsh feelings grow toward the non narc. I think my abandonment issues weren't just from my mother but my dad leaving my mom for another woman. I remember mom asking who we wanted to live with and my brother answered instantly for her while I was crying inside for my dad. I really feel bad for him having come back now where I took it so personally as a youth. Children can't make sense of all of it but if I had a voice who knows how it could have all turned out.
From experience-The narcissistic parent often controls access to the child for the non-narcy one. And also in the reverse direction, controls access to the non-narcy parent for the child. In this way, the child sees even less of the non-narcy parent, and builds up an ideal version of the "good" parent in their head. There's very little time for that version built up in your mind to become a realistic one. That's another way you as the rescuer or fixer kids could become trauma bonded with the non-narcy parent.
This is so hard because there are so many low lives…I don’t even think it’s the families sometimes. It could start there but then all these crazy low lives are trying to come after your siblings and their weird wives. I have no idea. We need new ideas/solutions to all this chaos
The non narcissistic parent has narcissistic traits for staying with a narcissist. Probably cptsd. She was abused by my father and then started abusing me and my sister emotionally mostly. I was a golden child at my family. Probably my mother was at her family as I have searched. As long as you stay with them you become as them obviously. I left my abusive covert narc after 2 and a half years. My mother is still with my covert narcissistic dad. She has cptsd which obviously looks a lot like narcissism and narcissistic traits.
Every human has narcissistic traits to a certain degree, but to say that the person who stays with a narc has narc traits is victim blaming and not true.
@@the.toxic.phoenix I am saying that because I was a victim of them by myself. From my family and from my ex. But as long as you stay with them you develope cptsd or ptsd and these disorders also have some similar traits as them which can be fixed if you want and they teach you how to attract a better partner in future.I dont blame myself or anyone else that has suffered from these demons but I am just saying that if you have suffered from childhood trauma and you had these dynamics at your family its very easy to be attracted by them.
I was the golden child for both my parents. My Dad, who was the non-narc parent, felt that he had to find solutions for my mother's ongoing mood swings, temper tantrums, depression, constant screaming, etc. Neither of us knew about narcissism at the time, and he actually went to his grave not knowing this either. But it was clear that he relied on me to come up with solutions to help keep my mother under control, and my mother relied on it too. This led to all kinds of privileges that essentially destroyed any chance of a relationship with my younger two brothers. It was as if there was a parental triad in our house....focused solely on my mother and with neglect of my brothers (and myself). At a certain point in my life, I became a therapist, working with families. I had no idea of the narcissistic dynamic, despite having been through tons of therapy and graduate level education. I had no business being a therapist given that critical lack of knowledge. But it seems that many of the professionals back in the day had a lack of knowledge in this area as well. (I am 72 in May). Thank God it now can be readily identified and addressed.
Both of my parents were narcissist and I was always trying to stop the aggressor, problem is that the less narc parent was in the service and never home. Picking sides was my life up until their demise.
Please replace the term parental alienation with domestic violence by proxy or weaponization of the children. The term is harmful in family court. A parent abuses a child and when the other parent tries to protect them they're the ones who are accused of parental alienation. (The term was invented by a man who justified pedophilia.) The protective parent often loses custody and children have to endure horrific reunification camps and reunification therapy. Children are gaslighted during reunification. Such "treatment" us unregulated and "providers" charge a ridiculous amount of money. The blog One Mom's Battle has resources documenting all this.
@ I kind of disagree. The problem I have is projective identification. The narcissistic parent accuses the other parent of being the narcissist and “has” to protect the child from the other parent. Although this is just subterfuge and camouflage for weaponizing the child to hurt the other parent. Looking at it exclusively as parental alienation you look only at the conduct of alienation. As the courts have universally accepted a child should have a relationship with both parents, so looking at conduct and addressing the alienation is much more direct for the court to address.
My grown up daughters understand their father now. And for a while I guess I used to weight them with my feeling during the healing process. I have lived and am living for them really! They are my everything- but I have started NOT speaking about hiw I feel. I am healed, and forever grateful for their support. But enough now - they live their lives! And I will forever be there if they need me. But live and let live. I am proud I am aware at least.
This helped me see the dynamic areas in my family. I did leave at 17. It was an off & on experience with several months in between until I was 21 when I distanced myself from the situation. Now I get why my behavior is a certain way. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and empathy. 🙏
You have such unique perspective! Love it! Honestly, I'm really struggling since he left. I cry myself to sleep every night, missing him so much. I poured my heart out to him in a message, but I haven't heard back. It's been really tough.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I've been through a similar experience before, and it was a dark time. But a spiritual counselor helped me heal and find peace. Would you like me to connect you with him?
That's so kind of you to offer. I'm desperate for anything that can help me get my ex Yes, please, I'd love to connect with the spiritual counselor. What's the next step?
You’re describing me exactly. I was always defending my dad against my narcissistic mom. He was not very available and never was able to defend me against her, so I was often let down by him. But he and I were very close and mom was jealous. When I visited them, as an adult, I’d get up early to be with him, but as soon as mom appeared it was over. I idealized him too. I’m sure you can guess what my relationships with men were like. Thanks to good therapy, I was able to get married at age 35 and create my own little 3 person family.
I had one sister who was the narcissist's golden child and the other sister was the non-narcissist's golden child. After the narcissistic parent passed away, the non-narcissist's golden child was trying to make us pity her as she believed we saw her as having disproportionate influence over the non-narcissistic parent. She felt that this was an burden for her professionally. It was really hard to take.
There is a movie. I forget the name. Where the mother, in a wheel chair, is in the kitchen with her daughter. And, I guess, the adult daughter starts telling the mother what to do. How to put away the plates or where the plates should go or something. And the mother suddenly starts screaming “I am still the Mom”. Narcissist Dad? Who can really say. How devoted was YOUR husband? Pretty easy. But yeah, “I am still the parent here”. Pretty common theme.
i want to share my dynamic i experienced when i was younger. my mother: covert narcissist, i was her supply. my stepfather: a hardheaded individual who definitely adultified us as kids, he isnt a narcissist. even with his strict rules, i ALWAYS could tell he only meant well. he shows love via gift giving. and you could tell he wanted to show love and appreciation, just for him growing up no one said the words "i love you" in his household. because of my stepfathers strict antics, my mom played this "mediator" role. she would fabricate outlandish reasonings as to why we couldnt do anything as kids. "oh your stepdad wont want you going to that party, you know how he is". she so much as told me that the reason i wasnt being invited home for the holidays was because he doesnt want me there. come to find out at 30 years old, he never said anything like that. my mom weaponized my stepdad's more serious leaning temperament against us kids. how low? she said he hated me at like age 21.... :\
I was a golden child, but- also parentified, emotionally used, etc. Mom saw abuse- too afraid. I listened to parent problems, cared for siblings for years. Then, later scapegoated by my siblings. I stand alone.
Please do a video on explaining going no contact with relatives to kids. They can struggle with why you would do such a thing and may still want that relative in their lives.
This is my theme. A golden child of a non narcisstic parent. Now I see its even worse because you constantly want to protect her as a victim. And she doesn t want to divorce him nor go to any sort of therapy.
This hit hard. When I told my friend that I was the golden child. I knew how to relate with my Dad who is a narcissist and could get things from him or made him do things for me but I also am the golden child to my mum who isn’t narcissistic she thought I was just being manipulative. I played both team like non of my other siblings so they think I am the favorite child but it’s all in the dynamics and cause I understood.
At 41, I'm finally working through stuff with therapy. Mom's the narc, dad's non-narc. I feel this 100% I didn't know that's what it was as a kid and now I'm realizing, I barely had and to this day not really experiencing a childhood. Parents are but shouldn't be together, lil bro moved far away. I'm struggling 😅
IF YOU’RE AN ADULT GC…I mean 30s 40s 50s…you’re complicit and have made a choice. Harsh? Fair….because GC’s don’t exist without their scapegoat- and where and what lengths have you gone ? or chose to neglect simply to be better than, elevated, and enabling of your role and toxic family at the utter destruction of sibling scapegoat/s ?
My sister is 4 years younger than me, and the GC. I'm 61 now, and she's 57 and as well as being the GC she turned out to be a narcissist. I spent my entire life trying to get her to love me. I finally had to step away from our relationship about 10 years ago, because I finally woke up and saw our relationship for what it was. 3 years ago I was missing her, and I reached out and tried to see if we could talk about things honestly. I ended up feeling like a little kid again, trying desperately to gain her love. In typical narc fashion, she discarded me. I'm better off without her, and my narc mother I went no contact with almost 5 years ago. But it's sad, and it hurts!
@@christinelamb1167Wow, similar story as my family, and so I’m sad with you. Even at 57 yo, she hasn’t matured, evolved. Thank you for sharing, because it gives me a glimpse into both of my daughters’ future. I don’t like it 😢, but I get it, and we’re handling matters differently now. We’ve set our boundaries to protect our spirits, grieving still, yet creating positive memories for ourselves moving forward. Wishing you well too…. 💛
@@christinelamb1167 thanks for sharing, as heartbreaking 💔 as it is, crying as I’m reading this because our experiences are so similar. Scapegoat here, older GC, narc sister, I took all the abuse, and thought I would be ok, if only we could have the love ❤️ for each other that was never available at home. Just once wishing for her to take the smallest of stands against the abuse she sat back and witnessed. The older she gets the more transparent and barren she betrays herself to be - only now, I realize, GC’s at least IME and observing others aren’t in the nearly as precarious position as people make them out…it never mattered how much or what I achieved how good or “successful” I was- we were roled from age 4/6 years old…she completely destroyed her life for a time - but did it knock her off the pedestal? , no. High level / malignant narc family dynamics choose scapegoats and GC’s early - most importantly, the GC isn’t chosen on merits, they’re chosen because they are identified as least capable and lacking the 💪 resilience to handle the abuse. Love and support you all. In our healing ❤️🩹 we begin to realise just how much we all still have to give and offer. But to those who deserve and reciprocate in kind. 💚💛
@@anticarnism in many ways I consider her the biggest loss to me- and lmk if you relate but I knew from too young an age how f-up’d our family was and told the truth from a similarly young age - but for all the abuse and being the literal receptacle of everything “wrong” I had a fantasy (retrospective) level of hope that my sister would see and feel the injustice and that we could be that love and connection for each other (and run far away together as soon as humanly possible). I know that it was a pipe dream but growing up I didn’t see it in her…keen to hear if this type of blind spot with siblings affected other scapegoats out there ? ❤️
Thank you for you content! Its really helping! Im a self aware narcissist but I was never the Golden child, In fact I was subject to a malignant narcissist mother.
This sums me up. Except my non narc mum was married twice to 2 different narcissists. My father died due to an undiagnosed condition. When she remarried I refused to leave her as she was ill and disabled. 18 years later she died and the pain has been so intense it's affected my health. Her 2nd husband has ghosted me and my mums family. Iv suspected there was someone else
I asked my father to divorce my mother when I was 10 years old , I also had fantasies about their plane crashing and only my father surviving, or being adopted. My older brother was belittling me and my father on a daily basis. Only much later I learned my mother is behind his bullying behavior.
It's crazy, I was just describing my relationship with my dad a bit last night... And that's basically what this is. I'm trying to leave my NM, but I don't want to leave other family in the lurch
I have an overtly narcissistic dad and a covertly narcissistic mum, and while this video reflects my experience, mine feels even worse. As the scapegoat, I’m stuck between a younger and older brother who are both abusive and treated as the golden children. My mum, despite enduring abuse from my dad and brothers, continues to put my brothers on a pedestal. I want to rescue her and offer support in any way I can, including mentally, but it has to be done without her realizing. She insists on being seen as the 'best mum in the world,' so I can't let it appear that she's receiving help from me. Even though I’m expected to help, it must be done quietly, without anyone knowing I’m being a helpful or supportive daughter. I also can’t say anything bad or imply that my brothers are in the wrong, as they are perfect in my mum's eyes. If I do, I’ll only face more abuse.
Wow! It’s interesting because I’m betting that many “golden children” are or have dealt with the struggle of going back and forth between divorced parents. They have to chose between the narcissistic parent and the victim of the narcissistic parent, and even the victim may not understand how to set up healthy boundaries about not talking to the child about the struggle with the other parent, because NPD is still poorly understood and the victim is affected mentally and emotionally, they can assume the child will understand and yet, I’ve seen the child be put on a pedestal and the child will choose the narc parent over the victim of the narc. Especially if the victim moves on with their life finding a new spouse so they don’t rely on the relationship with the child the way they did in the beginning of the divorce. The estrangement ensues, the victim parent should try to remember to have boundaries with the child, not telling the child his/her problems and also to maintain a special unique 1:1 relationship with the child/children especially after they find a new partner.
Thank you so much for this video! I learned a lot. Can I ask if you could do a follow up video of the situation where, like mine, I was the golden child of both my non-narc mother and my covert narc father, while my brother was the scape goat of my dad :( It took me a while to realize all that, in fact, I was watching one of your video for the first time a few years ago and sob the whole time as I finally recognized myself and my family situation.
I still felt like I had to be my mother's savior and watchdog. I feel like I'm lagging behind in finding myself compared to other people my age in general. I've been trying to make room for myself to be me, and it's been slow, but I've made progress.
I broke up with a narcissistic parent. And I would have liked to break up earlier, but I was so young that I didn't understand and I had turned into the narist's own flying monkey. Also, my mother did not want to leave the relationship and still does not want to see the whole situation, does not see the narcissism even though she is still suffering. I've tried to talk carefully about narcissism, but my mother doesn't want to talk to me about it for more than a minute, and has belittled my experiences too, especially at first. My mother is old and wanted to hire a narcissist to take care of her important matters, but I said that my help would end if the mother asked for the narcissist's help. I didn't want to say that to my mother, but I felt I had to. Maybe I was too cruel, because on the other hand, a person should be able to decide for himself with whom to do things. It feels so bad how a person can be so blind and it makes me want to throw up that the abuser is seen as the good guy. Of course I know that I myself have been blind to the abuse of a narcissist, and now that I opened my eyes I was horrified, but this way 3 years later I already feel so much better without the narcissist. Maybe I will have to see my mother struggle for the rest of her life, but I don't want to go back to that pit myself.
There is no way to articulate my gratitude for this. I was the Golden Child of a very broken non-narcisistic mother. We alone (not having the knowledge that is available now) navigated a landscape of narcissism. I used uppercase letters because my two sisters scoffed at me with the name from the time the movie was made; one of them, a malignant narcissistic and the other diagnosed as borderline personality disorder. My father, a communal narcissist, thought the man I was married to for 20 years, an extraordinarily self-righteous narcissist, walked on water. Just saying all of that helps me forgive myself for three suicide attempts and two additional hospitalizations. Every time I would hear you mention the golden child type, I would wonder why it didn't fit exactly. My father and malignant narcissistic sister were quite happy with the sarcasm they used in the term. My father only considered me "golden" when any light reflected off of me onto him. I'm 62, and my mother died almost 21 years ago. I feel the weight of defending her still, while trying to find off jabs from my father that are often wrapped in words about how much I'm like her. He, of course, (as she predicted he would) re-married in recording time just over 18 months. I, myself, didn't read that as a sufficient mourning for someone who gave up everything in those 44 years for him. The most surprising thing in all of it, though, was how much I didn't realize she WAS protecting me from. After she died, it was such a shock to discover that he had such little regard for me. It doesn't stop him from using me now to care for him at age 84. Anyway... the point is... I have to this point felt like one-of-a-kind. I guess misery loves company because... at least now, I don't feel like a solo act. Thank you. ❤
Thought id comment before watching. Roughly 8 months since discard and golden child young adult daughter is only just now starting conversations via text with me. She's always maintained we're cool, just not wanting to be caught in the middle. However, the Nex has be texting her none stop for years and hasnt stopped, so while i had little contact the nex had plenty. Even host nex and new supply for dinner. That was a kick in the nutz i can tell ya. Interesting thing tho, GC recently split with her partner she was living with. I spoke with him questioning if i should tell GC her mother is a covert narc and he said yeah i should because GC had to tell Nex to back off. That Nex gets a foot in the door more than i because Nex will punish her push/ pull style if she doesn't contact quick enough. So this week i told GC who is a 4th year psychology student. She didnt say much then or still, but at least she can be on the lookout and protect herself now. One of the main reasons i had to tell her is because scapegoat son has gone complete No Contact with his Narc mother and GC has been a flying monkey, so of course he's gone NC with her too. Shit i even told the nex she's a narc. Her reply? - We all have something wrong with us / facepalm. Ive no doubt she knows theres something wrong with her but wouldn't know shes a covert narc, so telling her at least puts the ball in her court to fix her shit and try to save relationships and her life which will spiral. Pretty much guarantees no future hoover attempts now ive unmasked her. The kids know and can protect themselves if the decide to maintain contact. Yeah i may have risked my own relationship with the GC and smears or whatever, but im sleeping better knowing im not withholding information that could help what was once my family. I take heat for doing that, then so be it. My kids must be protected and the nex, well given a chance to fix herself even though i know its a next to zero chance of happening.
Wow, terminology I need to learn here. What is “flying monkey”? Nex = the narc ex-wife or ex-husband, got it but never heard or seen before, appreciate the code. Interesting but not surprised that your GC is studying Psych; I too am fascinated with the human psyche. Thank you for sharing your story, learning alot about myself & others in similar situations.
@@jrs2024 Fly Monkeys are people who act as an agent for the Narc. They'll get people to reach out if you've gone no contact, relay information and the likes.
Having watched it now its a different take than i thought and definitely something to ponder. The damage a narc does is so many layers deep its not funny. That said, as the non narc parent i didnt have a GC. That said i probably gave more attention to the scapegoat child as he needed it more given the nex gave way more attention to her GC. So on that front no doubt the GC got less attention from me than she otherwise would've got in a healthy family dynamic. I estimated 30% of brain power every day was going towards keeping the peace and trying to fix the unfixable with the covert narc. Then of course spending more time with the scapegoated child because he wasnt getting as much from his narc mother, or they were at war.
My mom. Bad ass...she was more oppressed than us kids were..I am not, by any stretch a golden.i am the baby...I was supposed to be the long term caregiver... I had a kid.threw off. The whole future he planned.. then... I had another kid..then..they had kids...narcs. Do. Not. Like kids..takes the spot off the narc.
Yes, a true narcissist may even recognize that they should not have children. But often they fail to exclude themselves from the situation of parenting because no one wants to hear their entitled selves say, “let’s not have any”. If anyone ever says they don’t want kids, honor that!
![10 Signs of Narcissistic Parents [2025]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/vjr-jh0Cimg/mqdefault.jpg)
“Horrifically triangulated”. No better words. Thank you for the validation.
This is the pattern with my mom I am breaking free from. I feel like she uses me as her therapist, support system, comforter and protector from issues with my dad and narcissistic family members. I honestly feel used abused and then betrayed a lot by her. It has been way too hard on me and cost me way too much. I now tell her maybe some professional support could help her because I can’t be her therapist anymore, but she won’t seek it, so I have to step away. She doesn’t like that I now keep boundaries and say no, and gets mad that she can’t control me. Makes me wonder if she is narcissistic too. Prioritizing my well being and individuation. I’m not responsible for her or the family. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
That's been my journey as well. I tried for 2 years whilst going through the qorst time in my own life. All I needed was for her to step up just this once, to just understand where I'm coming from. Instead I got contempt disdain and a boat load of other stuff. I think my mother is covert. ✌
I hear you, thank you for sharing. Really, your share helps me alot to make changes.
Absolutely the right way to go..and it stings. But worse is being emotionally dragged along the ground. I could not take anymore.💚
Everyone has narcissistic patterns (traits). Your mother might be suffering from complex post-traumatic stress response. She is looking for someone to believe her when she trauma dumps on you. She seems desperate and some counseling would do her some good. Maybe she just wants someone to believe her about the truth and others to stop enabling the charming one in the family relationships. I have been to hours of counseling but still find myself trauma dumbing on my daughter and any family or friends who will listen. I agree with your boundaries though. It is killing me softly and I know I will die being the nobody who was not validated or nurtured properly as a young babe and child. I listen to Richard Grannon and Dr. Ramani and have fleas but not NPD. I sometimes believe I am turning into a narcissist when I keep demanding the truth. Keep standing your ground and loving your mom but not her complex trauma response. ❤❤❤
She probably is if she had a baby with an abuser. Those who participate in unhealthy relationship dynamics their whole life tend to normalize the behavior subconsciously, I.e trauma bonds. Also though it could just be your projection of your shadow self since it sounds like you have ur own trauma ur dealing with as well, maybe a mix of both.
My non narcissistic parent left the family when my brother and I were 9 and 10. She left us with the narcissistic parent. This was in the mid 60's when very few people divorced. She had no high school diploma (married my dad at 18), had no money, and worked a minimum wage job. That's how badly she wanted to get away from him. Needless to say, my brother and I had a messed up adult life. Abandoned and emotionally abused makes for a dysfunctional life. Neither of us ever married and my brother ended up a quadriplegic because he became an alcoholic and made really bad decisions. I'm 68 and finally healing from it all.
Well done for your healing journey! ❤❤❤ (my brother turned to drugs for a decade or two). We weren’t physically abused (didn’t need to be as we were terrified of my father) but definitely emotionally abused, particularly witnessing the cruel words & selfish behaviour inflicted on our mother. Thank goodness we can see things more clearly in our latter years! 🍀🍀🍀
Omg! Now I understand why Helen worried that neither of her two children, both boys, would ever marry!! (And neither of them did.. ) The eldest became a narcissist and messed ME up for a while - and his younger brother, who was engaged to marry in his fifties, had a heart attack and died before the wedding date was set.
Wow, I fear for my daughter, who makes bad decisions as well. She did move back but went to a party were drinking took place. She got on the back of a snowmobile and flown 6 feet. After all the abuse from her dad I took care of her for her to tell me fk I and fk off. I'm fine with the divorce, I never wanted to show my daughter that marriage abuse is ok. She I get your other parent. It's an up hill battle. She a parent stay or go.
I am really happy for you ma'm. I am glad you are finally healing ❤✨
I'm happy for you and it gives me hope that I can still do something
WOW. All true. I was the chosen one, the middle child, the peacekeeper, the protector, the problem solver, empathetic, and naive.
And the caregiver, when everyone else turned their backs on me. Took a long time to understand it and move past it.
Not too many people understand this dynamic. I wish I didn't. Thanks.
I was the scapegoat. My Golden Child sister was the narc-in-training of my mother. My narc sister was terrible to my Dad (who was a non-narc). She did not value him at all. She mocked him and was completely disrespectful. I constantly stepped in and took his side. He became a broken man due to the abuse by his wife and my sister. I left home due to the abuse I was getting but I wish I had convinced him to leave that family, even if it meant he move in with me. I didn't know what narcissism was yet, and poor Dad died before we had a label for it.
@@l.5832 my mom volunteered at the court house, domestic violence. I remember a time mom wanted to say something about my narc dad. But she kept quiet. Probably fearing she’d sound crazy! She passed in 2001 and I want to scream!! Mom they have a name for this now!! Mom I understand now!!!
Same with my narc brother, he treats my dad like shit.
Omg I'm bawling... This is such a horrible unrecognized predicament I relate to and you just addressed it. I feel seen.. You have already saved me for the last two years from unaliving myself but now you're getting to this core wound that I still couldn't express 😢❤
Yes, I'm sorry, me too. A big chunk fell in just now. All of it applies and it explains how I've carried so much guilt in not being able to save my mom over all these years. She ended up retreating into herself at the end so lost was she. I felt so horrible for having to leave the family dynamic at age 29 when I started to see the harm that was happening to me for staying with them. It's a sad thing to have to estrange from one's own parent especially when I already felt that I was the cause of it all . take care 💖
you are my most credible source for dealing with narcissism, youre truly a savant at explaining this to me
My childhood and adulthood explained 💯 Exactly how I became a codependent people pleaser who ended up marrying a covert community narcissist unbeknownst to me 🤦♀️ I'm so grateful for Dr Ramani and other videos like this, that help us to see the light and start making necessary changes to heal and better ourselves 🙏🏼
The non-narcissistic parent - that's me... I am nervous about what will I hear... thanks for addressing the issue of these children
Ditto.
I agree. It was a good discussion. I'd love to hear Dr Ramani have a convo w/ Patrick Teahan LICSW (here on YT) because he sees both parents at fault. Here Dr Ramani pointed out why it was so tricky for everyone.
So much of what you described was my lived experience of protecting my mother and being the family peacekeeper/fixer. My parents both lived into their 90's and the elder care (on my own) was really hard and I found myself getting more and more frustrated with my mother for her choices of staying with him and protecting him, yet at the same time feeling guilty for feeling that way - as you say, its complicated
I became my mom's cheerleader, crutch and was parentified because my covert narc therapist dad wouldn't give her the emotional support she needed to heal from her own narc mother and her marriage to him (he medicated me and tried to convince me I was insane from the age of 10). The emotional incest and enmeshment with my mother was legendary.
When I went no contact last January I grieved not being able to save her. I tried to protect her first from my own grandmother. My mom was the only one that I felt truly cared for me. But she betrayed me, too. It hurts still to say that, but she showed her own triangulation and manipulation when I tried for years to address things. She was a victim who became a protector of her own abusers. I could not protect her. She didn't want it in the end. And she refused to protect me or my sister.
Well, I am protecting my kids.
What a comfort when my narc dad wasn’t home. We would even have a blast with mom! When he showed up both my brothers left the house until dinner. My narc dad played pro football in the 50s. My oldest brother was the golden child. Winning trophies in little league, to diving competitions and a scholarship to college playing football. He moved from Va back to Kansas to attend college. Dropped out and got some land and grew pot. And my narc dad turned him into the new scapegoat! ( we all had our turns btw) Big brother left us way to soon he passed away at 51 years old. What a nice loyal guy he was! Very much missed!! An so Dern intelligent I miss conversations with him. Question is whose life does a nark not fuk up??
none
Yes my father always had to have a scapegoat esp in our teenage or adult years
I just realized from this video the kind of warped reality my ex boyfriend is living in. He is the golden child for his non-narc mother, and the way you described him feeling like he has a duty to protect her is so real. Its the reason we aren’t together now because he feels such a strong duty to protecting his family from his dad. I still love him and it hurt so much when we ended things. I just hope he gets out of there someday and finds himself 😞
So sad. You are probably healthier being out of it though :( ❤
@@tiffcat1100 probably, I wish things were different 😞
I was the non narcissistic parent. My daughter was my golden child. I have worked hard to let her go. It’s not easy.
You are brave to say it ❤ nothing worth doing is easy! Our children though were never ours to begin with, they belong to the world we are just here to support them and sometimes guide them, that’s all.
As a non narcissist parent, I needed to hear this, I am in the middle of the separation and this is happening , my teenage son found a lot of stuff , Im sick of this and my narc taking over. Right now, narc is out of the house. I hate I didn't see the abuse until now , because all I wanted was the best for my kids and thought I was doing that.
i'm wishing you such luck. it's very hard leaving a narcissist, and i believe that your kids will see that you did the right thing! don't neglect your own trauma through this, and know that as the child of a narc whose parent didn't leave until way later -- i'm proud of you, this took courage!
@@LexinePishue Thank you for taking the time to reply , brought me to tears . I feel a bit stronger that I am making a good decision.
Wish I could do this. Don't have the finances to leave. Or any support. It always is inspiring to read of others in the process of leaving, or having left. Good on you!
@@KathrynParker-v7y i'm wishing you luck, too. i hope you find yourself in a bounty of resources soon. there are communities out here that are for you, too, that can at least emotionally support and validate you. 🙏🙏
@LexinePishue Thank you.
Thank you for putting the words to this out there. This is exactly my relationship with my non-narcissistic mother. I tried to help her leave twice and she never did. She married young, left an abusive home and jumped into the fire. I often prayed that she would have at least a few years at the end of her life in peace without him, but unfortunately, that didn’t happen that as she developed Alzheimer’s. I loved my mother and did desire more time with her but growing up in this dynamic you’re often left to fend yourself as neither parent is really there for you in any significant way.
praying for you, Dr Ramani❤
We love you ~ thank you for all You do!
i def had this kind of situation ~ Narc mom AND dad is a pilot ✈️ he was always having to attend to her when he was home
i encouraged my dad a lot because i knew that was a love language def not getting met by her
@@Victoria_Loves_Jesusmy father was a (fighter) pilot too & was treated like the Almighty when he was home when we had to be not seen & not heard
Your videos have helped me so much. From having an abusive narcissistic brother you've helped me see that it's not me, but them and that in itself is unbelievably liberating. Thank you Dr Ramani
Yes I agree. Liberating! Still hurts, but I can shift quicker from feeling hopeless to happiness, creating joy for myself. 👍🏼 Narcs will exist til the end of time, so I’m kind of grateful for my narc “teacher” bringing narcissism to my attention, now recognizing the traits & when/how to protect my spirit.
In my family with a Narc father, my mother and my oldest sister are his main supply, enablers, and flying monkeys. My mom and sister have a unique bond in their willingness to be abused by him and excuse his behavior. For the rest of us establishing healthy boundaries or no-contact, we are definitely perceived as in the wrong or "too extreme." It's sad because in the grieving of a parent I should have had in the Narc, I also feel like I've lost them too.
Similar to my family. I’m sad with you in the grieving; it IS painful & sucks that your mother & sister unfortunately became “narc zombies”. It is so strange to grieve the loss when they’re still alive. You are NOT in the wrong, your feelings are valid. These things help me get through the days…I write daily in my gratitude journal (shifts my focus from my negative past to real positive stuff in front of me), I do things I enjoy (because we deserve joy), I found a good therapist (had to shop around though) & I consciously surround myself with kind & supportive people (we’re here). 💛
@@jrs2024 It sounds like we've been on very similar paths. I'm glad we're both healing.
Even if I wasn’t raised by my narcissistic mother, she did a lot of hurt in so little time. My dad was an alcoholic person and he did what he could, but he made sure almost every single night of my childhood to tell me “I’m proud of you” “you’ll accomplish anything you want and don’t let anyone tell you the opposite not even me” and that made me ❤
But sometimes yes I was the emotional support of my father since I didn’t have siblings. I understand myself a lot more thanks to this video ❤
My story!😢 I was
a golden child of my non/narc mother. I’m not sure who affected my unhealthy journey as an adult more: my mom or my dad. It took me years to start understanding this a little by little. What hurts a lot is a fact that there in no relationship with my siblings at all!!! They were always jealous of my relationship with mom having no idea of what cost it was. I would trade it with a pleasure if I could. They are both grown up healthier than me, and struggle less in their adult lives. And I feel like I am left alone in this life. So painful, the grief is real.
Thank you, Dr. Ramani. I feel seen in ways I had never been able to put into words. I was definitely the golden child of my non-narcissistic parent, but I was also basically an only child from age 12, so I filled multiple roles at different times for both parents. It wasn't until decades later that I realized I didn't really have a mom OR a dad. It's so very messy. Thank you for validating my experience.
It feels very reassuring to first, hear you speak out loud the basic horrible hell that is my family. Also second, how not alone I truly am when I read all the comments of my fellow survivors of intricately complicated circumstances - but we’re all basically in the same boat in the end - victims of or survivors of abuse and childhood trauma. It doesn’t take it away but it does make more sense out of why it is the way it is AFTER the narc abuser stepdad has died and my “non-narc” mom still wants nothing to with me. I thought when the monster was gone, it would be okay. And it isn’t. Then we have my golden child half sister who totally is fitting into that role of taking care of our mom (mentally, not emotionally cuz she’s messed up too) but she definitely doesn’t hide her disdain for me (the scapegoat and problem child who our parents always either abused me (stepdad) or abandoned me for the other child and out of fear of the abusive husband stepdad (mom)). Wow. What a cluster. I can only keep growing inside and evolving and letting go of my stuff so that I can be whole. That’s all I can do. Thanks Dr Ramani and my fellow friends in the comments. ❤
My entire family blamed me for not being 'stronger'.
The Golden Child role is taxing. Especially when everything is put on you and everything wrong is also put on you… it’s never enough!
@@ForceVGeneral sorry, but if you’re the GC, you don’t exist without a scapegoat counter (they are not the only roles (larger DYSFUNCTIONAL FAMILIES can have mascot, invisible child, but SCAPEGOAT AND GC ONLY COME AS PAIRS - they are the only two essential roles for a narcissistic/toxic and abusive family dynamics. If you’re the GC, which I’ll take you at your word - you have a scapegoat (one who by well reasoned logic - is loud in the absence of their mention).
GC’s can’t simultaneously fulfill both scapegoat and GC - except if your drama cup need to be overflowing- I can’t say it’s a surprise though a GC thinking that have “everything put on you (this is a tad beyond but valid for expectations and GC’s)
But in the same breath cry wolf as the one who gets everything wrong put on yourself too? (Would love to hear about your “pains” and efforts and sacrifices you have extended to the one who actually gets all the wrong and bad and dysfunction situated within them- the scapegoat. Sorry honey naaaaah not even Jesus be buying what you’re selling when he fresh out o wine and fish.
Jokes aside, who’s the scapegoat…it ain’t you, you’re the GC…sibling, relative? Let me say I’m not saying your path was easy but in sharp relief to the carnage caused to the legit scapegoat in your dysfunctional family, being the GC is blessed. Hard but blessed. Remember that.
@@ForceVGeneral because you’re playing scapegoat and GC ROLES simultaneously, and whining about it…whose the real scapegoat in your family? Because you serve GC (plated) in both hemispheres of this world. 🌍
LOVE YOU Dr Ramani
THANK YOU for Being YOU ♥️
For the last year ive devised a plan, gathered resources, set up my own accounts and saved secretly and now have a plan and date to escape with all my children.
It’s hard because the whole family are flying monkeys and don’t understand why I can’t just live this life as a dutiful wife like marriages are meant to be..
Hopefully I can find a way to start over after this planned homelessness.
These videos have helped me realize what this is.. and it’s unbelievably accurate! I was shocked! Maybe one day I can use my experience to help others. I’ve even got ideas about how to do it. When I’m safe, I want to maybe make my TH-cam channel about it, but can’t show my face.
Thank you.
Oh, my. From my own experience, the burning desire to help others CAN be also a manifestation of the C-PTSD. I wanted to be a therapist and thought I would be a good one because of my stellar empathic skills. But now, in my 70s, after years of psychiatry and therapy, I realize that the intense empathy I always felt was a product of having no boundaries. I realize now that my main "healing job" is to create a safe space for myself in my own mind - and my goal is to heal myself before I die.
@ i mostly just want to do something that matters and be able to survive.
as a only child in a disfoncional family the role is never fix, it keep changing and it is really destabilizing....
Only child here and I totally get that. Golden when they wanted, scapegoat when they wanted.
I was the scapegoat(permanently). The older stepbrother was the golden child only when he did her bidding. The younger stepbrother was what I called the alternate. He became the golden child when the older stepbrother wasn't around. He became the scapegoat when I wasn't around. For years I thought I got the worst of it being the scapegoat. Then I thought the alternate got the worst of it, because I knew where I stood. Now based on how the golden child's life turned out I think he may have had it worse. The alternate and I got out and went no contact. We both can see the truth. The golden child is still in and can't see the truth, totally brain washed.
@@KaekoickArizona I'd agree. My father was aggressive and I saw it easily so despite the pain and hurt, it's been nowhere near as bad as my mother who smiled at me when I was the 'golden', was neglectful or contemptuous when I wasn't or something bugged her, it messed my head up for decades! So id agree the golden part is sometimes worse ✌️
Only child here too. Yes at times I was the golden child then the helper then the scapegoat in no particular order, changing according to her mood and her circumstances at the moment and if I had done something worthy like an award at school that she could make her own or get supply from.
My poor stepfather put up with my mom. Bless his heart he was decent to me even when my mom started her tantrums he took up for me most of the time.
I loved my father. He was a kind, gentle soul totally overwhelmed by my mom's crazy. His strategy was to withdraw from all of us. In the last couple of years of his life, we developed a relationship. And I realized that my mother had despised me for all of those years because, in many ways, my father and I were alike.
Very interesting topic! We need more videos about a non narcissistic parent who raise a child with a narcissistic parent.
Wow Dr. Ramani, you nailed that description well. Thank you.
I always protected my mom from my dad and other narcissistic family members, but she betrayed and was also abusive to me so I don’t know if she is also narcissistic. Both my parents parentified me. It’s confusing. Tired of it. I am not responsible for others. Stepping away and prioritizing my well being. Thank you Dr Ramani ❤
Idk don’t enable them. They should be able to have a healthy relationship with you. Families that don’t that’s not very kind/right. Should not be abusing anyone
This is so sad. I’m watching this play out right now with my boyfriend and his daughter. She has always tried to protect him from her mom even at a young age. At 6, she was the one to tell him about mom’s “new friend”. She knew mom told her to keep it a secret from dad, but she knew it was wrong. During the divorce, her mom wanted to take the dog, and she at 6/7 years old played mediator by saying “mom, you’re already leaving dad alone, just let him keep the dog.”
And to this day, she protects him by barely talking about us to her mom and even defending us when her mom makes disparaging comments (which really infuriates mom).
Buuuut…. Like you said at the end of the video, I can see the disappointment in her face that dad can’t do more. And he feels terrible that he can’t. There is so much time being lost and it kills him. She always asks him “why can’t I stay with you more?”
“Why can’t I go with you there?” “Why can’t you just ask mom to do this or that?”
And the best he can do is explain to her “honey, I’m so sorry, you absolutely know that I wish I could…. But your mom…. She makes things really difficult. I just don’t want to fight with her. It will be easier to explain when you are older”
And FINALLY at 11 years old, she is starting to look down at the floor dejectedly in response and say “yeah… I know she does…” 😢
Oh wow, thank you for sharing. Your bf’s daughter is super emotionally intelligent. And because she is, she’d definitely benefit from working with a therapist NOW, esp going into her teens, for her own healthy well-being to live as a kid, certainly not to have to feel she has to fix her parents. Dad too. Best of luck for you all.
@ thank you for the advice, and yes she is very mature for her age. Her mothers immaturity has caused her to have to grow up quite fast it seems.
I have let him know about the therapy thing before but he asked her if she wanted to go and she seemed like she wasn’t quite ready for that yet. Perhaps as she gets a bit older she will be more open to it, as she now is starting to have more things to talk about and her mom has done things now that she is having a hard time figuring out the reasoning behind.
We just try to reassure her that she’s not crazy, that her mom’s behavior in fact doesn’t make sense and that none of it is her fault or has anything to do with her.
@@artsyfartsynerdywordy Beautiful positive support for her. 💛 If interested, there are excellent age-appropriate emotion workbooks you 3 (you, bf & daughter) can explore together. She’s at a great age to learn such communication skills for her self-esteem (because school unfortunately won’t teach kids these life skills).
This sounds so much like my ex and his mother. I have tried to make him aware of this and the negative influence their relationship and her had/has on him and our relationship, but he does not want to acknowled this, he is also very emotionel immature and an extreme people pleaser, but he couldn't bother supporting me or our child and didn't try to take my or our childs needs into considuation.. insteed he used me as his emotionel punshing bag. I'm out of that relationship now, but this relationship broke me into a million pieces, i'm now on my healing journey, trying to find back to who I am and have stronger boundaries, the future looks brighter 😊🙏
I am very grateful for this video Dr. Ramani. I felt alright leaving my country after my non narc parent's death. Just a retrospective observation. At that point I was oblivious.
Thank you again, Dr. Ramani. Your insight truly feels like a bottomless well of knowledge and understanding.
I believe I’ve personally experienced the dynamic you describe, perhaps more intensely as an only child, which might magnify its challenges. In this situation, one can simultaneously become the narcissist’s 'scapegoat' and the non-narcissist’s 'golden child'. This dual role can lead to developing a kind of hidden perfectionism-striving to make the non-narcissist proud without provoking the narcissist.
Additionally, the non-narcissist’s lifelong effort to supply the narcissist’s needs can push them into questionable behaviors. For instance, if they lose a job or business, they may resort to selling their child’s belongings or taking on unethical side hustles, driven by fear that the narcissist will abandon them if they can’t maintain the idealised lifestyle. This only deepens their shame, which can strain their relationship with their child. For example: to ease their guilt, they might pressure their child to visit and show support for the narcissist.
In families where I’ve observed similar dynamics, it seems common for the non-narcissist to die prematurely after years of exhausting themselves trying to uphold the narcissist’s pride while absorbing their shame. Afterward, the narcissist may 'barter' family assets to secure a new caregiving enabler-leaving the entire estate to this 'replacement non-narcissist' instead of their own child or children.
So, what’s the solution? Honestly, I believe the legal system exists, at least in part, to curb narcissistic behavior and offer remedies for injustice. You often advise viewers to consult a lawyer, which is excellent guidance. I wonder if you’d ever consider interviewing a legal expert on your channel? It might be inspiring for your viewers to hear about options and relevant case studies.
On a personal note, I’m currently in the hospital after literally eating the 'wrong chicken soup'-just hours after I posted about that exact risk. The worst part? No one believes or even seems to consider my story.
Thank you again for your incredible and inspiring work. Please allow me an internship with you in LA. :)
My quote of the day, which I've awkwardly inserted into a range of conversations: "The absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence."
I was the scapegoat of a family dynamic like this, my mother always was hyper focused on the two narcs. She would joun in to beat me for false things i was accused of doing, as i grew older the narc got everything as she married and had many children, when i visited, it upset the two narcs, as my mothers attention was diverted to me for the weekend, but my mother hid that, covered for the duo. Towards the end of her life she would defend me, but said "try not to say anything while you are here, or they will give me hell, when youve gone". So i did as she pleaded. When i found out my dog had been beaten by my father and sister (and wasnt limping because of arthritis as i thought)..i felt beteayed by her..as i would have cut them all off, she said she didnt tell me because she wanted her family together...my mother and i were estranged when she died Of course my narc father and sister accused me of killing her from a broken heart. I felt guilty so i stayed to taking carenof my father, thats when the two threatened me with disinheritence..they controlled me with police (false accusations of elder abuse) and when the police through me out they stole all my valuables and the jewellery my mother had put aside for me...and disinherited me. My golden child sister always said that she deserved more because her childhood was taken (my parents were immigrants and need her for english communication, also they worked 7 days a week,and she was tasked with keeping an eye on me (i watched TV, and she beat me in resentment, i was 4-5, and she was bigger 10 yrs older)...she cant see my side at all. my she burn in hell.
This is my sister and mom. I've healed enough that I finally feel empathy for what they've created, instead of rage. I keep my distance from them.
Based on the fact that the golden child is more likely to turn into narcissists than others, they actually endured more insecurities than other types of roles.
This is me too. I ended up with an intense trauma bond with my mother and have had a lot of difficulty individuating. I kept getting drawn back into the triangulation and repeated discards when my parents patched things up. So manipulated. Seeing it all clearly but as the GC doing bulk of emotional work and elder care have now been scapegoated by entire family. It totally sucks. Beyond care any more for family unit so determined to make the next 20 years better and manipulation free as I can't change the past only the future.
Because each situation is so different. And no one ever pushes these men/women to go into a program they have a lot of enablers
Thank you Durvasula for your hard work and such dedication for making the videos. Sending lots of love and gratitude 💕
I watched my family melt down and spend nearly forty years pretend nothing was wrong and leave me in the dark. I knew back then I wasn't the only one affected. I finally know I wasn't the narcissist. I was the Golden Child. Now I get to be the Truth Teller. Because decades of gaslighting is not love. Malicious compliance? I am going to enjoy this with endless glee. Hello absurdity, it's nice to make your acquaintance
the narcissist will use this protective trait of the truth teller child and may blackmail him/her that they will hurt the non narcissistic parent every time
It was exactly my childhood, the mood changed the moment my narcissistic father came home. I was beaten just for being happy. I tried to support my mother and when I was older, to convince her to leave him. Then I moved out to study, she didn't survive him. I would have wished her a few nice years without him. I hate my father to this day.
My narc ex turned my daughter against me. She hasn’t talked to me in 10 years. She was the center of my universe and my puddin. I never saw it coming. It took my ex 15 years to get it done but get it done is exactly what he did. I’ll never recover.
Your daughter is to blame also...she's most likely co-dependent and with mental problems of her own.
She made her choice...live your own life as gloriously as you can...you can't MAKE people see/acknowledge toxicity or wrongdoing.
true that and also it can create issues with the narcissistic siblings who then will claim we are treated better than them when in reality it is the opposite. Many people should really avoid having children.
this was me and this is the most accurate description of me ever. l was my mother’s protector, therapist, friend, confidente, it is not until now at late 30’s that l realise how much she abandoned and betrayed me and my loyality out of her own lack of capacity to live. she also displayed narcissistic traits in all her vulnerability and she had NO boundaries and practised emotional incest. for instance she discussed with me how it was to have a daughter with anorexia when l was in fact the daughter with anorexia…
Maybe in some families, enough separation from parents over time may help one to reassess which parent seemed more (inappropriately) demanding.
@@tomchurch2285 “inappropriately demanding” sounds like it reads…emotional, sexual, financial, spiritual, psychological, abuse management - who was the least abusive parent…the answer should be none of them…because you don’t abuse anyone, least of all children.
No wonder I was confused on top of more confusion. The twists and turns of chaos and confusion in narcissistic relationships evolve and change according to who is holding what position in the relationship.
Thank you for bringing up possibly having harsh feelings grow toward the non narc.
I think my abandonment issues weren't just from my mother but my dad leaving my mom for another woman.
I remember mom asking who we wanted to live with and my brother answered instantly for her while I was crying inside for my dad.
I really feel bad for him having come back now where I took it so personally as a youth. Children can't make sense of all of it but if I had a voice who knows how it could have all turned out.
We were children without a voice
From experience-The narcissistic parent often controls access to the child for the non-narcy one. And also in the reverse direction, controls access to the non-narcy parent for the child. In this way, the child sees even less of the non-narcy parent, and builds up an ideal version of the "good" parent in their head. There's very little time for that version built up in your mind to become a realistic one. That's another way you as the rescuer or fixer kids could become trauma bonded with the non-narcy parent.
This is so hard because there are so many low lives…I don’t even think it’s the families sometimes. It could start there but then all these crazy low lives are trying to come after your siblings and their weird wives. I have no idea. We need new ideas/solutions to all this chaos
The non narcissistic parent has narcissistic traits for staying with a narcissist. Probably cptsd. She was abused by my father and then started abusing me and my sister emotionally mostly. I was a golden child at my family. Probably my mother was at her family as I have searched. As long as you stay with them you become as them obviously. I left my abusive covert narc after 2 and a half years. My mother is still with my covert narcissistic dad. She has cptsd which obviously looks a lot like narcissism and narcissistic traits.
Plus you can change easily from golden child to scapegoat and vice versa. Depends of what to say and how their mood is
Wow, this hits home figuratively & literally for me. 😳 Thank you for sharing.
Every human has narcissistic traits to a certain degree, but to say that the person who stays with a narc has narc traits is victim blaming and not true.
@@the.toxic.phoenix I am saying that because I was a victim of them by myself. From my family and from my ex. But as long as you stay with them you develope cptsd or ptsd and these disorders also have some similar traits as them which can be fixed if you want and they teach you how to attract a better partner in future.I dont blame myself or anyone else that has suffered from these demons but I am just saying that if you have suffered from childhood trauma and you had these dynamics at your family its very easy to be attracted by them.
And yes if you stay with them for a long time you are gonna develop unfortunately some traits from the abuse
I was the golden child for both my parents. My Dad, who was the non-narc parent, felt that he had to find solutions for my mother's ongoing mood swings, temper tantrums, depression, constant screaming, etc. Neither of us knew about narcissism at the time, and he actually went to his grave not knowing this either. But it was clear that he relied on me to come up with solutions to help keep my mother under control, and my mother relied on it too. This led to all kinds of privileges that essentially destroyed any chance of a relationship with my younger two brothers. It was as if there was a parental triad in our house....focused solely on my mother and with neglect of my brothers (and myself). At a certain point in my life, I became a therapist, working with families. I had no idea of the narcissistic dynamic, despite having been through tons of therapy and graduate level education. I had no business being a therapist given that critical lack of knowledge. But it seems that many of the professionals back in the day had a lack of knowledge in this area as well. (I am 72 in May). Thank God it now can be readily identified and addressed.
Both of my parents were narcissist and I was always trying to stop the aggressor, problem is that the less narc parent was in the service and never home. Picking sides was my life up until their demise.
Even if there is a divorce, there is the parental alienation that occurs by the narcissistic parent.
Please replace the term parental alienation with domestic violence by proxy or weaponization of the children. The term is harmful in family court. A parent abuses a child and when the other parent tries to protect them they're the ones who are accused of parental alienation. (The term was invented by a man who justified pedophilia.) The protective parent often loses custody and children have to endure horrific reunification camps and reunification therapy. Children are gaslighted during reunification. Such "treatment" us unregulated and "providers" charge a ridiculous amount of money. The blog One Mom's Battle has resources documenting all this.
@ I kind of disagree. The problem I have is projective identification. The narcissistic parent accuses the other parent of being the narcissist and “has” to protect the child from the other parent. Although this is just subterfuge and camouflage for weaponizing the child to hurt the other parent.
Looking at it exclusively as parental alienation you look only at the conduct of alienation. As the courts have universally accepted a child should have a relationship with both parents, so looking at conduct and addressing the alienation is much more direct for the court to address.
@@ThanksHermione child abuse
God bless you Dr. 🙏🙌🌈♥️🤍
My grown up daughters understand their father now. And for a while I guess I used to weight them with my feeling during the healing process. I have lived and am living for them really! They are my everything- but I have started NOT speaking about hiw I feel. I am healed, and forever grateful for their support. But enough now - they live their lives! And I will forever be there if they need me. But live and let live.
I am proud I am aware at least.
What a fascinating dynamic! You have validated my experience.
Oh gosh, light bulb moment. Thank you
This helped me see the dynamic areas in my family. I did leave at 17. It was an off & on experience with several months in between until I was 21 when I distanced myself from the situation.
Now I get why my behavior is a certain way. Thank you for sharing your knowledge and empathy. 🙏
You have such unique perspective! Love it! Honestly, I'm really struggling since he left. I cry myself to sleep every night, missing him so much. I poured my heart out to him in a message, but I haven't heard back. It's been really tough.
I'm so sorry to hear that. I've been through a similar experience before, and it was a dark time. But a spiritual counselor helped me heal and find peace. Would you like me to connect you with him?
That's so kind of you to offer. I'm desperate for anything that can help me get my ex Yes, please, I'd love to connect with the spiritual counselor. What's the next step?
Here’s his handle, father Tosin Ayodele he has been a lifesaver for me.
Thank you for this valuable information! I just looked him up online, and he seems impressive.
You’re describing me exactly. I was always defending my dad against my narcissistic mom. He was not very available and never was able to defend me against her, so I was often let down by him. But he and I were very close and mom was jealous. When I visited them, as an adult, I’d get up early to be with him, but as soon as mom appeared it was over. I idealized him too. I’m sure you can guess what my relationships with men were like. Thanks to good therapy, I was able to get married at age 35 and create my own little 3 person family.
I had one sister who was the narcissist's golden child and the other sister was the non-narcissist's golden child. After the narcissistic parent passed away, the non-narcissist's golden child was trying to make us pity her as she believed we saw her as having disproportionate influence over the non-narcissistic parent. She felt that this was an burden for her professionally. It was really hard to take.
Thank you so much Dr Ramani
There is a movie. I forget the name. Where the mother, in a wheel chair, is in the kitchen with her daughter. And, I guess, the adult daughter starts telling the mother what to do. How to put away the plates or where the plates should go or something. And the mother suddenly starts screaming “I am still the Mom”. Narcissist Dad? Who can really say. How devoted was YOUR husband? Pretty easy. But yeah, “I am still the parent here”. Pretty common theme.
i want to share my dynamic i experienced when i was younger. my mother: covert narcissist, i was her supply. my stepfather: a hardheaded individual who definitely adultified us as kids, he isnt a narcissist. even with his strict rules, i ALWAYS could tell he only meant well. he shows love via gift giving. and you could tell he wanted to show love and appreciation, just for him growing up no one said the words "i love you" in his household.
because of my stepfathers strict antics, my mom played this "mediator" role. she would fabricate outlandish reasonings as to why we couldnt do anything as kids. "oh your stepdad wont want you going to that party, you know how he is". she so much as told me that the reason i wasnt being invited home for the holidays was because he doesnt want me there. come to find out at 30 years old, he never said anything like that. my mom weaponized my stepdad's more serious leaning temperament against us kids. how low? she said he hated me at like age 21.... :\
I was a golden child, but- also parentified, emotionally used, etc. Mom saw abuse- too afraid. I listened to parent problems, cared for siblings for years. Then, later scapegoated by my siblings. I stand alone.
It was only what the Narcissist parent allowed. So, the other parent & even the grands enabled.
(Or were trauma bonded?)
Please do a video on explaining going no contact with relatives to kids. They can struggle with why you would do such a thing and may still want that relative in their lives.
This is my theme. A golden child of a non narcisstic parent. Now I see its even worse because you constantly want to protect her as a victim. And she doesn t want to divorce him nor go to any sort of therapy.
This hit hard. When I told my friend that I was the golden child. I knew how to relate with my Dad who is a narcissist and could get things from him or made him do things for me but I also am the golden child to my mum who isn’t narcissistic she thought I was just being manipulative. I played both team like non of my other siblings so they think I am the favorite child but it’s all in the dynamics and cause I understood.
At 41, I'm finally working through stuff with therapy. Mom's the narc, dad's non-narc. I feel this 100% I didn't know that's what it was as a kid and now I'm realizing, I barely had and to this day not really experiencing a childhood. Parents are but shouldn't be together, lil bro moved far away. I'm struggling 😅
IF YOU’RE AN ADULT GC…I mean 30s 40s 50s…you’re complicit and have made a choice. Harsh? Fair….because GC’s don’t exist without their scapegoat- and where and what lengths have you gone ? or chose to neglect simply to be better than, elevated, and enabling of your role and toxic family at the utter destruction of sibling scapegoat/s ?
My sister is 4 years younger than me, and the GC. I'm 61 now, and she's 57 and as well as being the GC she turned out to be a narcissist. I spent my entire life trying to get her to love me. I finally had to step away from our relationship about 10 years ago, because I finally woke up and saw our relationship for what it was. 3 years ago I was missing her, and I reached out and tried to see if we could talk about things honestly. I ended up feeling like a little kid again, trying desperately to gain her love. In typical narc fashion, she discarded me.
I'm better off without her, and my narc mother I went no contact with almost 5 years ago. But it's sad, and it hurts!
@@christinelamb1167Wow, similar story as my family, and so I’m sad with you. Even at 57 yo, she hasn’t matured, evolved. Thank you for sharing, because it gives me a glimpse into both of my daughters’ future. I don’t like it 😢, but I get it, and we’re handling matters differently now. We’ve set our boundaries to protect our spirits, grieving still, yet creating positive memories for ourselves moving forward. Wishing you well too…. 💛
@@christinelamb1167 thanks for sharing, as heartbreaking 💔 as it is, crying as I’m reading this because our experiences are so similar.
Scapegoat here, older GC, narc sister, I took all the abuse, and thought I would be ok, if only we could have the love ❤️ for each other that was never available at home. Just once wishing for her to take the smallest of stands against the abuse she sat back and witnessed.
The older she gets the more transparent and barren she betrays herself to be - only now, I realize, GC’s at least IME and observing others aren’t in the nearly as precarious position as people make them out…it never mattered how much or what I achieved how good or “successful” I was- we were roled from age 4/6 years old…she completely destroyed her life for a time - but did it knock her off the pedestal? , no.
High level / malignant narc family dynamics choose scapegoats and GC’s early - most importantly, the GC isn’t chosen on merits, they’re chosen because they are identified as least capable and lacking the 💪 resilience to handle the abuse.
Love and support you all. In our healing ❤️🩹 we begin to realise just how much we all still have to give and offer. But to those who deserve and reciprocate in kind. 💚💛
Same but mine is my older sister by three years 😢
@@anticarnism in many ways I consider her the biggest loss to me- and lmk if you relate but I knew from too young an age how f-up’d our family was and told the truth from a similarly young age - but for all the abuse and being the literal receptacle of everything “wrong” I had a fantasy (retrospective) level of hope that my sister would see and feel the injustice and that we could be that love and connection for each other (and run far away together as soon as humanly possible). I know that it was a pipe dream but growing up I didn’t see it in her…keen to hear if this type of blind spot with siblings affected other scapegoats out there ? ❤️
Thank you for you content! Its really helping! Im a self aware narcissist but I was never the Golden child, In fact I was subject to a malignant narcissist mother.
Good Discussion. Thanks
I love your videos
This sums me up. Except my non narc mum was married twice to 2 different narcissists. My father died due to an undiagnosed condition. When she remarried I refused to leave her as she was ill and disabled. 18 years later she died and the pain has been so intense it's affected my health. Her 2nd husband has ghosted me and my mums family. Iv suspected there was someone else
I asked my father to divorce my mother when I was 10 years old , I also had fantasies about their plane crashing and only my father surviving, or being adopted. My older brother was belittling me and my father on a daily basis. Only much later I learned my mother is behind his bullying behavior.
It's crazy, I was just describing my relationship with my dad a bit last night... And that's basically what this is. I'm trying to leave my NM, but I don't want to leave other family in the lurch
Thank you. ❤ This was very interesting. 🎉
Thank you❤❤❤
The episode I didn't know I needed to hear.
I have an overtly narcissistic dad and a covertly narcissistic mum, and while this video reflects my experience, mine feels even worse. As the scapegoat, I’m stuck between a younger and older brother who are both abusive and treated as the golden children. My mum, despite enduring abuse from my dad and brothers, continues to put my brothers on a pedestal. I want to rescue her and offer support in any way I can, including mentally, but it has to be done without her realizing. She insists on being seen as the 'best mum in the world,' so I can't let it appear that she's receiving help from me. Even though I’m expected to help, it must be done quietly, without anyone knowing I’m being a helpful or supportive daughter. I also can’t say anything bad or imply that my brothers are in the wrong, as they are perfect in my mum's eyes. If I do, I’ll only face more abuse.
Wow! It’s interesting because I’m betting that many “golden children” are or have dealt with the struggle of going back and forth between divorced parents. They have to chose between the narcissistic parent and the victim of the narcissistic parent, and even the victim may not understand how to set up healthy boundaries about not talking to the child about the struggle with the other parent, because NPD is still poorly understood and the victim is affected mentally and emotionally, they can assume the child will understand and yet, I’ve seen the child be put on a pedestal and the child will choose the narc parent over the victim of the narc. Especially if the victim moves on with their life finding a new spouse so they don’t rely on the relationship with the child the way they did in the beginning of the divorce.
The estrangement ensues, the victim parent should try to remember to have boundaries with the child, not telling the child his/her problems and also to maintain a special unique 1:1 relationship with the child/children especially after they find a new partner.
Actually it seems that, most of the time the non narcissistic parent is a narcissist too...
13:44 Yeah
@@bluemoony102 I think they have to have some narcissism to survive
Thank you so much for this video! I learned a lot. Can I ask if you could do a follow up video of the situation where, like mine, I was the golden child of both my non-narc mother and my covert narc father, while my brother was the scape goat of my dad :( It took me a while to realize all that, in fact, I was watching one of your video for the first time a few years ago and sob the whole time as I finally recognized myself and my family situation.
Wow, wonder if my daughter has figured this out yet.
Thank you Dr. Ramani
I still felt like I had to be my mother's savior and watchdog. I feel like I'm lagging behind in finding myself compared to other people my age in general. I've been trying to make room for myself to be me, and it's been slow, but I've made progress.
I broke up with a narcissistic parent. And I would have liked to break up earlier, but I was so young that I didn't understand and I had turned into the narist's own flying monkey. Also, my mother did not want to leave the relationship and still does not want to see the whole situation, does not see the narcissism even though she is still suffering. I've tried to talk carefully about narcissism, but my mother doesn't want to talk to me about it for more than a minute, and has belittled my experiences too, especially at first. My mother is old and wanted to hire a narcissist to take care of her important matters, but I said that my help would end if the mother asked for the narcissist's help. I didn't want to say that to my mother, but I felt I had to. Maybe I was too cruel, because on the other hand, a person should be able to decide for himself with whom to do things. It feels so bad how a person can be so blind and it makes me want to throw up that the abuser is seen as the good guy. Of course I know that I myself have been blind to the abuse of a narcissist, and now that I opened my eyes I was horrified, but this way 3 years later I already feel so much better without the narcissist. Maybe I will have to see my mother struggle for the rest of her life, but I don't want to go back to that pit myself.
They say in a way we become our parents when we get older. Why not be the best version.
Thankyou for you content! Its really helping! ❤
Checking in!❤
There is no way to articulate my gratitude for this. I was the Golden Child of a very broken non-narcisistic mother. We alone (not having the knowledge that is available now) navigated a landscape of narcissism. I used uppercase letters because my two sisters scoffed at me with the name from the time the movie was made; one of them, a malignant narcissistic and the other diagnosed as borderline personality disorder. My father, a communal narcissist, thought the man I was married to for 20 years, an extraordinarily self-righteous narcissist, walked on water. Just saying all of that helps me forgive myself for three suicide attempts and two additional hospitalizations.
Every time I would hear you mention the golden child type, I would wonder why it didn't fit exactly. My father and malignant narcissistic sister were quite happy with the sarcasm they used in the term. My father only considered me "golden" when any light reflected off of me onto him.
I'm 62, and my mother died almost 21 years ago. I feel the weight of defending her still, while trying to find off jabs from my father that are often wrapped in words about how much I'm like her. He, of course, (as she predicted he would) re-married in recording time just over 18 months. I, myself, didn't read that as a sufficient mourning for someone who gave up everything in those 44 years for him.
The most surprising thing in all of it, though, was how much I didn't realize she WAS protecting me from. After she died, it was such a shock to discover that he had such little regard for me. It doesn't stop him from using me now to care for him at age 84.
Anyway... the point is... I have to this point felt like one-of-a-kind. I guess misery loves company because... at least now, I don't feel like a solo act. Thank you. ❤
Thought id comment before watching. Roughly 8 months since discard and golden child young adult daughter is only just now starting conversations via text with me. She's always maintained we're cool, just not wanting to be caught in the middle. However, the Nex has be texting her none stop for years and hasnt stopped, so while i had little contact the nex had plenty. Even host nex and new supply for dinner. That was a kick in the nutz i can tell ya.
Interesting thing tho, GC recently split with her partner she was living with. I spoke with him questioning if i should tell GC her mother is a covert narc and he said yeah i should because GC had to tell Nex to back off. That Nex gets a foot in the door more than i because Nex will punish her push/ pull style if she doesn't contact quick enough. So this week i told GC who is a 4th year psychology student. She didnt say much then or still, but at least she can be on the lookout and protect herself now. One of the main reasons i had to tell her is because scapegoat son has gone complete No Contact with his Narc mother and GC has been a flying monkey, so of course he's gone NC with her too.
Shit i even told the nex she's a narc. Her reply? - We all have something wrong with us / facepalm. Ive no doubt she knows theres something wrong with her but wouldn't know shes a covert narc, so telling her at least puts the ball in her court to fix her shit and try to save relationships and her life which will spiral. Pretty much guarantees no future hoover attempts now ive unmasked her. The kids know and can protect themselves if the decide to maintain contact.
Yeah i may have risked my own relationship with the GC and smears or whatever, but im sleeping better knowing im not withholding information that could help what was once my family. I take heat for doing that, then so be it. My kids must be protected and the nex, well given a chance to fix herself even though i know its a next to zero chance of happening.
Wow, terminology I need to learn here. What is “flying monkey”? Nex = the narc ex-wife or ex-husband, got it but never heard or seen before, appreciate the code. Interesting but not surprised that your GC is studying Psych; I too am fascinated with the human psyche. Thank you for sharing your story, learning alot about myself & others in similar situations.
@@Jackripster69 narcs want to keep in contact 24-7 it’s a control tactic
@@jrs2024 Fly Monkeys are people who act as an agent for the Narc. They'll get people to reach out if you've gone no contact, relay information and the likes.
Having watched it now its a different take than i thought and definitely something to ponder. The damage a narc does is so many layers deep its not funny.
That said, as the non narc parent i didnt have a GC. That said i probably gave more attention to the scapegoat child as he needed it more given the nex gave way more attention to her GC.
So on that front no doubt the GC got less attention from me than she otherwise would've got in a healthy family dynamic. I estimated 30% of brain power every day was going towards keeping the peace and trying to fix the unfixable with the covert narc. Then of course spending more time with the scapegoated child because he wasnt getting as much from his narc mother, or they were at war.
I hope you’ll do a video of the scapegoat of the non-narcissistic parent. It seems they continue the scapegoat dynamic; at least with my mother.
My childhood. So accurate
Good morning Dr ❤
My mom. Bad ass...she was more oppressed than us kids were..I am not, by any stretch a golden.i am the baby...I was supposed to be the long term caregiver... I had a kid.threw off. The whole future he planned.. then... I had another kid..then..they had kids...narcs. Do. Not. Like kids..takes the spot off the narc.
Yes, a true narcissist may even recognize that they should not have children. But often they fail to exclude themselves from the situation of parenting because no one wants to hear their entitled selves say, “let’s not have any”. If anyone ever says they don’t want kids, honor that!