I mean, 80's Mirage Shredder could do that too. People tend to forget that the comics came first, and TMNT has always had this weird mystical stuff involved in it. The Batman/TMNT stuff is based on the current IDW run where Shredder is a reincarnated ninja master that has ties to an immortal dragon god, is basically married to an immortal kitsune witch who is related to that dragon god, and has died like three times and come back just fine each time. Pretty sure a dude with that much power can easily fight Batman. 80's Shredder was a joke.
@@Nekufan1000000 Suprisingly enough people forget that cannonically the 80s cartoon Shredder was an excellent fighter and even beat the turtles in his fights with them, but more people remember him for his silly moments
2003 Shredder was Ruthless!!!! Remember the things he did to Baxter Stockman!?!?!?!!? He kept taking him apart until he was literally nothing left but a Brain and an eye in a jar!!!!!!
He also slapped 87 Shredder for proposing an alliance to defeat the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from both their dimensions. Yeah that sounds ruthless, but it feels more like it was just a take that to the 87 Series and therefore makes him stupid.
@@Tacom4ster The Crystal Gems are canonically historical figures and are treated as a normal part of life. The Crystal Gems are the Earth Defense Force in this case.
The 2003 was one of the most epic cartoons I’ve ever watched, and showed how crazy and fun this franchise can get, while also including stakes to give the show weight. To this day, it’s still so special
ME It was truly amazing and love the toy commercials and ecerything about it in the mall even the cool bootleg toys that i wish i had a picture for where they're rip body builders.
Nothing will ever be as charming as the shitty Micheal Bay turtles movie were they are beat-boxing in an elevator on the way to the final fight of the movie
Despite the bayturtles movies being generally God-awful, there were a handful of great moments in both movies. The elevator scene is definitely one of the best.
Oh boy that crack at Deathstroke was more incendiary than I thought it would be. "RARRGH I'M ON DRUGS AND I DON'T CARE THAT I DON'T MAKE SENSE" is totally a good motivation for a character that's supposed to be a genius tactician and strategist.
the silly anime-esque cartoon took a LOT of liberities with Deathstroke but they till managed to you know give him some sort of good motivation that didn't weaken him or contradict the fact hes a powerful and intelligent badass
I always preferred the story where Splinter was Himato yoshi , cause his relationship with Shredder felt more natural , so I liked the 2012 version better in that part .
For those returning viewers from part 1 who were particularly salty about my comments on Leo, he's still my childhood favorite and just cuz I think he's a bit stiff nowadays doesn't mean I hate him. And I'm specifically talking about the 2003 version too. CHILLLLLL. But also thank you all so much for commenting and discussing and giving my videos the time of day. Hope part 2 is everything you were hoping for!
GodzillaMendoza dude I love the 2003 show I remember watching the season 1, 4 parter the Return to New York on VHS but after watching all of the Nickelodeon episodes since first airing In 2012 i seems the 2003 is better then 2012 PS do you like OG Dragon Ball Z the tacky lines and Filler version Or the one with somewhat remastered visuals better lines and non filler episodes Then watch Dragon Ball Z Kai from 2011-13
@@maldon3659 this is why I haven't gotten in to that series.. you can do anything you want with the series just don't mess with the turtles characteristics
@@cashomnitrix When you do crossover with smth, you name it from the series' title, not it's main character, so I don't stand corrected at all. As a huge fan of Stan Sakai's work, I'm aware of this common misconception.
I feel like the 2012 Turtles are more for people who enjoyed the Teen Titans show because the format is almost identical to it: having some stand-off episodes, while having a few episodes that continues the overall story. The 2003 Turtles feels more like a DCAU show with more focus on world-building and development.
This is strictly my opinions on old cartoons. Loved the 2003 Teen Titans preferred that over DCAU series, didn't really care for 2012 Turtles and preferred 2003 Turtles for the reasons listed above in the video .
As someone who was a kid and watched 2012 on Saturday mornings as it came out, I can confirm binging it makes the show a little painful and it's much better experience slowly
Definitely. I was pretty unsatisfied since I grew up watching the first two seasons but stopped following then, and then recently watched it all and could see the problems Mendoza pointed out.
I love the '12 series, but my biggest gripe with it, which you've covered here, were the storylines that were left unfinished. So many unanswered questions: Is Timothy/Mutagen Man still around or is he straight-up doomed to be a gelatinous abomination forever stuck in a containment vat? What happened to Pigeon Pete since Slash says they shouldn't talk about him? And back when the show was still airing, I too found it annoying that when things get resolved like Karai/Miwa joining the good guys, it gets undone immediately.
Not to mention we don't see enough of Raph and Y'Gythba, or Newtralizer since we don't see that dude from S2 until S5. It took THREE FUCKING SEASONS to see him roam around the streets and then team up with Dregg to use super powers, which makes sense for his character but visually is very boring since it would be cooler seeing him fight the Turtles instead, and then he dies. Same thing happened with Stockmann. And the ending was bullshit. Apparently a Mutagen bomb can kill people? So they kill a lot off, and just say Leo is a mutant. It was just shock value from an edgy 14 year old than a meaning ending to the series.
The 2012 Shredder is not just girl crazy he had way more to him like the fact that he was raised by the man who killed his father and did a parallel to mess with Splinter by taking his kid just like his own father it could of been shown more in the time travel episode for sure but his obsession was as black and white and basic as you stated and he is still one of the most complex versions definitely top 3 with 03 and IDW
@@sophiadebar382 bro 2003 shredder killed millions of innocent people and caused civil war on planets he was the best shredder so was 2003 TMNT best series
I’m a bit biased towards the 2003 show because that’s the one I grew up with but I like the 2012 show as well. That being said, I think you summed it up pretty well the reason why it didn’t click with me as well as the former.
Kind of sad to know that Rise of the TMNT was screwed by the network, making it the only iteration of the Turtles to be actually cancelled. We're getting the second season and maybe a movie and that's it.
As someone who has grown up watching the 2012 series, and prefers it, I would still call this two-parter an excellent video. You did a great job recongnizing each show’s strengths and weaknesses.
Hassan yes I did. It’s an amazing show. It even has some things that are better than 2012. I just felt more connected to the 2012 turtles and their story arcs. I can name some of the prominent characters and say which ones I liked more. Leo:2012(I did love 2003’s Leo’s ptsd arc) Ralph:2012 Don:2012 Mike:2012 April:2003 Casey:2003 Splinter:2012 Shredder:2012 Karai:2012 Bishop:2003 Krrang/Utrom:2003 Letherhead:2012
@@spideyguy3315 honestly, as a whole, it's very flawed to the point where it brings it down a lot but the good parts of it are still very well made. It's kinda like being promised dessert after dinner. Dinner was incredible, a perfect meal that was about to be rounded out with some hopefully amazing dessert, but the wait for the dessert is so long that you start to get a little frustrated that it still hasn't made it. You then get one part of the dessert but the rest is still being prepared. You enjoy the first part of the dessert but then you have to wait again for the other parts. Repeat this another three times then you get 2012 TMNT. The one off episodes are amazing and these incarnations of the turtles along with Master Splinter are probably the best versions we've ever had along with some great one off episodes. But after a while it just takes so damn long to get anything accomplished and even when something is accomplished it barely lasts. It gets tiring and tiring after a point where you just don't care anymore. Dinner and the few chunks of dessert you got we're pretty good but having to await so long just to have the full course meal makes it so that you just don't care anymore.
2003 Baxter was such a fun scumbag, that even when he gets his comeuppance, gets more twisted as he becomes"more machine than man", Black nerd Baxter of 2012 just meh
We all have our favorite interpretation of the TMNT, they are all valid and they all can be enjoyed by someone, YES EVEN THE (not by) MICHEAL BAY MOVIES, i mean i don't like them but i am sure someone does. But i think we should all agree, The Objectivly best show, Is Ninja Turtles the Next Mutation.
Despite having some gripes with them (their version of Casey Jones, the changes to the Turtles' origin, etc.), I don't even dislike those movies. They're still really fun and capture the spirit of the characters well enough
Showing actual fear and danger in the 2012 show is what makes this show impressive and unique, y’all have to understand this aired in 2012 - 2017 on NICK FOR KIDS on the other hand 2003 turtles really didn’t have any limits while 2012 did so give it props for convincing nick to show actual danger and death. (btw my opinion is kinda bias because i grew up with the 2012 show)
I still remember watching the 2003 version as a kid. The one moment from the show that really stood out to me and admittedly shocked me was the one episode where Leo and the shredder duel and Leo cuts his head off, only for the shredder’s body before the end credits stands up and picks up his head. That stunned me so much that it’s still stuck with me after all these years.
I like 2012 TMNt, but this review made me interested to rewatch the 2003 series. The last season of 2012 played more to it's strength with shorter episodic narratives, like the cool Mad Max parody
"They never look for a cure, which exists" Theres an episode where they find a cure that the turtles made and "razar" tries his damndest to get the thing the whole episode. Your not wrong but I should point that out.
I'm glad you covered and reviewed this series side by side. Most people who talk TMNT are usually those who grew up with the 80's cartoon, or recently watched the 2012 series. It's refreshing to see someone take on this series, and how strong of a show it is.
Still waiting for the show that started me on the path of a TMNT to be on DVD as a whole. The 2003 series is awesome and was my intro to the series. Hope to see a box set of it soon.
I grew up with the 03 TMNT so maybe Im more bias towards them. One villain you forgot to mention was hun. Personally I couldn't take his 2012 interpretation seriously. I kept thinking about how much he looked like Bruce Lee. I definitely prefer his 03 look. A strong 2nd in command. It also better because it gave Casey history with the purple dragons.
You've convinced me I need to find the 2003 show and watch it. Though I definitely have to agree that the 2012 show had an issue with a lot of it's plot progression. The Northampton arc is 8 episodes of bats**t insane stuff that has no plot significance at all and truly feels like filler, and while I liked the turtles in space portion way more you could make the same argument there. I do think the character interactions were great though in that show, and I can overlook the slow paced filler filled plot when the characters are entertaining to watch. I will say however the IDW comic did the villains really good. I love the rivalry between Shredder and Krang due to their long history with each other, and I think Kitsune is a great mastermind villain. Agent Bishop is downright scary with how he runs the EPF. I also like how they handled Alopex as a villain turned good guy, way better handled than Karai from the 2012 show. Also having the Mutanimals and Splinter be pseudo villains at points in the story made it very interesting in the latter half of the comic.
there is one episode of 2003 I highly recommend from one of the later seasons (possibly season 3 or 4, I don'tknow). It's called Insane in the Membrane and essentially explores the hstory of a character previously portrayed only as a one note egotistical asshole with the episode actually showing that, funnily, he WAS human and thus wasn't ALWAYS an evil jackass and it even ends on a really tragic note.
@@user-mh9dx7nz2r Yep, too bad the entire show never got a full legitimate purchasable release. The 1st, 2nd, and 5th seasons did, but the rest was spliced up into miniature, out of order episode bundles, if they got sold at all. Everything caps off with the movie Turtles Forever. A crossover between the 03, 80s, and Mirage Turtles. The American release for this was edited, missing footage, only in full screen. The European release is uncut and available in widescreen though.
I think the primary issue with 2012’s pacing came to the writers wanting to put too much emphasis on Shredder’s developing anti-redemption arc. By the end of his life, he’s mutated into this unrecognizable rotten form of his former intimidating self and while that was visually and narratively cool to see, I think the story’s overall progression suffered because of it, stunting it’s rewatch-ability as a negative consequence.
I was introduced to the 2003 series when I saw Turtles Forever (i know, i know), and I was HOOKED after Utrom Shredder delivered his opening line... "What fools are these... so WEARY of life, that they take MY name, THE SHREDDER, in VAIN?!" It's like, holy SHIT dude, i HAVE to watch this show! And I gotta say, I wasn't disappointed!
Turtles Forever was complete garbage! while I did enjoy some episodes of the 2003 TMNT Series, it was mainly towards the first 4 seasons and maybe season 5, but after that it became worse. I prefer the 2012 Series and the 1987 Series then the 2003 Series, but unlike the Next Mutation, I don’t think it’s one of the worst shows.
Such a well-made video! I remember dropping out of the 2003 TMNT show, for whatever reason, but this video series makes me want to revisit the series, again. Great job, dude!
The 2003 Shredder said this line which to me is the most badass line when he destroyed Aprils store in Season 1 "Like the Phoenix I have risen from my ashes. And into my fire, YOU SHALL FALL."
10:39 Donny did tried to turn Splinter back into human in season 2, Splinter reveled that he* accepted his current form in the end of the episode where they un-mutated Kerbie.
Ironically the final battle between the turtles and shredder in 2012 is more comic accurate than the final battle between the turtles and shredder in 2003.
Someone may have brought this up already, but the episode where the Retromutagen was introduced, Donnie did want to use it to return Splinter to human. He had only made two doses of the retromutagen, one for Kirby, and one for Splinter. Splinter, of course, is moved that one of his sons would do something like this for him, but tells him to cure Kirby first and then he would think about Donnie's offer. "I'll think about it" in the Japanese speaking forms is a passive-aggressive way of saying "I'm not interested". The first dose was destroyed by Stockman when he interfered and then the second one was also destroyed because Rahzar learned about it and wanted it for himself leading to a massive chase throughout the city over the retromutagen and by good fortune, Kirby was hit with one drop and able to be reverted to human. At the end of the episode, Donnie starts to declare that now he knows Retromutagen is possible, the next batch he makes will be used to restore Splinter's humanity. That's when Splinter says that he appreciates his son's gesture, but he prefers being as he is with his sons. Still, the retromutagen thing could have made a good storyline once it was revealed if it had been done properly, particularly since it requires April's DNA to make it. For example, Stockman, Rahzar, Bebop, and Rocksteady all learn about the Retromutagen. Stockman sees is when he interferes and realizes what it is, Rhazar overhears that it exists and wants it for himself, while Bebop sees the Retromutagen with Donnie and thinks it's something he could use as a weapon causing Mikey to blurt out that it is Retromutagen. Then Rocksteady realizes that could return them to human. We also see Stockman attempting to create retromutagen for himself at one point during the 3rd season which he quickly hides when Shredder enters the lab. Rahzar likely would have kept the existence of the Retromutagen to himself since he has no love for Xever and feels he can die as a fish for all he cares. Stockman also would have kept the knowledge of Retromutagen to himself as well, though he would have an attitude of "If that Turtle could make Retromutagen, certainly I can do that too." Bebop and Rocksteady are more likely to accidentally mention the existence of retromutagen while Shredder is in earshot. Now, this plausibility isn't there to show Donnie as being played off as a special snowflake in any way. I mean Donnie is capable enough fighter on his own, but compared to his brothers yes he is the weakest fighter on the team. But still, groups such as the Foot Clan are more likely to brush him off as the weak one. But even so, Shredder would still come to the assumption that if Retromutagen is something that one of the Turtles has created, it could be used as a weapon to weaken the forces he has gained. So that meant either taking the Retromutagen from the turtles so it could be used against them. Or targeting Donatello for elimination to make sure more retromutagen can't be made. It's through that someone like Stockman or Tigerclaw learns April's DNA is the key to make Retromutagen and they turn their attention away from Donatello to target her instead.
I personally loved the horror inspired episodes in the 2012 version! Seeing aliens or Jason vorhees in tmnt was a fun and interesting take on the show. I can’t remember if the 03 show did this tho
TMNT 2003 had a fairly infamous episode where they fight a Cthullu-esque monster that fucks with their minds. There’s also an episode where Baxter Stockman makes a new body and it starts to degrade while he’s in it.
with the 2003 ninja turtles there were a few episodes that were planned but never made because of issues the censor board had with things in the episodes
I forgot the title of the episode, but there was supposed to be an episode in Season 5 of the 2003 show where we get some backstory on the Garbage Man. He and Hun were conjoined twins, they were separated when they were little, and the Garbage Man was thrown into the Garbage thus giving him his name. Since the episode was too dark, even after Peter Laird made some changes to it, it was never made. Damn shame.
As someone who grew up on the 2012 and hasn’t seen the 2003 series, I agree with ur points and thx for helping me get a new perspective on the show I loved and acknowledge its flaws
The biggest problem I had with the 2012 TMNT is that it's rarely ever used it's side-characters. It tried to have a monster-of-the-week formula, but ALL of them end with a stinger that hints to that villain returning, but they never do. And if a character was a potential friend to the turtles, they were as good-as-dead. That role-playing bird with the illusion powers would of been cool to see again. Honeycut is lost in space. And poor LeatherHead had more episodes where he's been presumed dead or died than episodes were he actually helped. And April's father went from a badass to crowd that got mutated every time. It wouldn't feel like there was so much filler if they didn't have so many one-time guest characters.
You know, Schredder in the original run of the comics, being killed in issue one and all he really has no personnality, he doesn't even seem that evil, he just comes up when some rando challenge him to a fight on a rooftop and is legit surprised to see four green monster wanting him dead. Sure the battle is fierce but we really don't know him. His personnality from the 2003 show was kind of created for the show. I personnally love how petty he is in the 2012 series and not just this generic big bad Satan kinda guy
I agree with a lot of the flaws of the 2012 show. I gotta say though, while still frustrating, 2012 Karai's journey was less annoying for me than 2003 Karai. 12 is all in for the crime stuff and probably turns a blind eye to his scumminess because of her upbringing, but when she sees the light she actually decides to get away from shredder. 03 Karai sees all the iffy stuff and either stays quiet or speaks up and then shuts up when told to, AND STILL KEEPS HELPING SHREDDER. Her telling shredder off is seriously downplayed by the fact that she was still helping him in that movie, and every other god damn time before. At least when 12 Karai took over the foot it was just a ninja clan and she wasn't trying to kill the turtles like 03 Karai.
I hate Any version of Karai who works for shredder. In the original comics Karai was the leader of the Japan branch of the foot clan and took over the NY branch when Shredder died.
I agree with what u said about 2k12 karai but not 03 Karai in 2k3 dosent like how motivated he is by bloodlust but she helps him cause he raised her and is honor bound but once he goes to far in Turtles Forever she helps destroy him
There's a huge difference, 03 Karai never seeks redemption. She nearly kills the remaining Turtles in Season 4 and the only reason why she didn't try this for the rest of the show is because Leo makes it clear that he will kill her the next time they trade blows.
I distinctly remember seeing frozen Timothy in the lab in the final season, during an episode where the turtles are just hanging out and bored because they have nothing to do. And I was like “Donny! Timothy is RIGHT THERE!!! Make some god damn retro mutagen!”
You are so right about the repetition in 2012 and the way they wasted characters. I think Saki and Yoshi’s relationship makes for a more compelling Shredder and KMR does an excellent job with the voice as well. Scottie Ray’s voice is top notch though and possibly the better of the two.
2003 turtles just built so much after the initial foundation made from the og comics . Forever my favorite tmnt because they just went on so many adventures . And even got power upgrades to their characters. 2013 is good too and tried to do it’s own thing but personally for me there were moments where it felt stale. Watched the 90s version not to long ago it’s a good laugh and throwback
I'm really glad you've made a comparison of these two shows. I had thought of doing something like that, but I never finished either so I hoped someone else would do it and I could go "oh cool, I don't have to work to see entertainment" thanks! Love watching this stuff!!!😁😁😁
Well Donatello did offer the retro mutagen to Splinter to turn him back into a human,but after the first two doses of the retro mutagen were destroyed. Splinter told him to use the last of it on April's dad and that he's been a rat for so long that he's made peace with it.
TMNT 2012 has a nostalgic place in my heart, but I admit the storytelling started to drop the ball after season 2 in my opinion. Season 1 had this amazing overarching plot build up, but then so many plot threads were just dropped by the end of season 2. Then in my opinion the Triceraton arc came out of nowhere and cut the plot development with Karai, Splinter, and Shredder short AGAIN. It could have been so much more. Maybe it could have attracted a much larger fanbase if they just focused on writing a better story.
Unfortunally, nick was planning to change the program when they was planning season 4, thats the big reason for the mistakes en TMNT 2012, they was trying to do their best, they had the ideas but nick loves to destroy the best of him.
Yeah the status quo is a good observation. 2003 was all about changing the status quo every single season. 2012 changed almost nothing for a billion episodes.
Kye Dysarthria she was the only that had development like Harry Osborn in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon while almost everything didn’t change like tmnt 2012 cartoon.
i think the best way for me to explain how i feel characters were handled in both of these shows is that while 2003 overall did less to give their characters depth, what was there was well executed and fleshed out. 2012 feels like it tries to do more to give each character some amount of depth, but a lot of the times it comes out muddled because the writers seem to have a hard time really committing to, or really exploring any of it.
Huh? 2012 does explore characters and development while fleshing them out wtf r u talking about? Mikey’s starts off as a dumb innocent child which is explained in his space episode while still having other attributes that get more explored gradually in every season like his emotionally empathetic side, his potential knowledge over Donnie, his other hobby’s, him being more focused and series in fights, him having more a straight comedic relieve personality rather being completely dumb, his crushes, him standing up for himself more, having more scenes of him potentially being the best fighter, and his angry side while still having him be completely capable and op in dimension x. This is probably the least developed and fleshed out main character in the whole show and this is what they give him how in the world is his character muffled and not explored lol? If ur not intelligent enough to notice subtle changes and writing in a character that aren’t directly throwed in ur face maybe that’s why u prefer 03?
I personally like the 2012 series the best. I've watched every version except Rise. I've just not gotten a chance to watch it, but people who hate are super toxic about it. At least that is what I have experienced. I grew up with the 87' TMNT. I've even enjoyed the less great versions (Coming Out of Their Shells & Next Mutation). I even got to start reading the original comics. The reason I like 2012 the best is iI feel the story is well written and the animation is interesting (even though I hated it at first). With the exception of Casey, who is best in the 90s movie, 2012 has my favorite versions of each of the characters. I especially love Splinter's design. The voice acting and cameos are fantastic. I'm happy to see the Turtles getting some love.
Maybe I’m misremembering but wasn’t there an episode where Bradford tried to force Stockman to find a cure for him? And then later on when the retromutagen was invented he was actively trying to get it for himself?
If that did happen, it was probably for one episode in season 2 and then dropped entirely for the rest of the show. I feel like my eyes glossed over and I got a little bored with some of the filler episodes at around that point, because I remember all the story episodes pretty vividly. If I screwed up that part, then my bad
That was like the first time the cure was introduced and then he straight up stops caring about it. IIRC this is the same episode where he becomes Razar. And for some reason said cure is never developed for Mutagen Man and then the show forgets about him. Which is fair, he sucked, but they already did 2 episodes with him so they might as well make a 3rd and finish it.
The problem with the 2012 series is that it can't properly build up characters. While they develop them well there afraid to take risks like the 2003 series. Baxter stockman Is a good example in 2003 tmnt everytime he fails he loses a limb and he's pretty much a robot at the end of it so you remember every win from the turtles almost killed stockman. This shows that 2003 will take all the risks they can, if the 2012 series wanted to take more risks they should have brought back old characters or killed more off
While I will agree that the mutant villains do stagnate, they do also hate their mutations and have often got into scraps with the turtles over cures or possible ways to be cured. Like over Baxtor Stockman.
Oh yes because an alien that is evil for the sake of being evil is so much better than a human being that lost himself in anger and hate that eventually does anything to win to the point of mutating himself just to win
Not every villain needs to be complex or sympathetic. Plenty of the most iconic villains in fiction can be summed up as “evil for the sake of being evil” (Palpatine, Frieza, Joker, Darkseid, Green Goblin, Megatron, Bowser, Dr. Eggman, etc.).
To me Leo is the deepest character of the Turtles. Even tho he on surface is the most static, when you really delve into his character, he is the most flawed and complex imo. He has this anger in him that he doesn't let out, he feels he has to be the best at everything which is definently a flaw
It was nice seeing you look at these two shows. Since I grew up with both these versions, I can’t really force myself to choose which one is better. There are elements each one does better and worse, and I just recommend any newcomer just choose what’s their personal preferences are. P.S. 2012 Shredder is the most badass simp in fiction
Someone somewhere said that the 2003 TMNT was the Batman Animated series of the TMNT franchise and I may be biased but I completely agree with this comparison.
I think the reason the turtle fandom is more accepting than others is that TMNT is such a ridiculous concept to begin with that you have to have a certain mindset in order to get into it, despite its popuparity. Also helps that it hasn't had a single bad cartoon in it's entire library.
Also to add, while I respect and also kind share your opinion about the slow pace of the show, of how there were repetitions of plots during the series, I disagree about Splinter's death and April's father mutation. In the case of April's father becoming mutant, it actually served a propuse in the story, since the first time this happen it was because of the turtles, which results in a rift between April and the turtles, with the heroes trying during the second season to fix it and regain April's forgiveness (which was season 2 central theme : making amends). While the second time, it served to showcase how the heroes had failed against the Kraang's invasion and how both the Turtles and April don't have their mentors and father figures to help them. Now about Splinter's death, i view this is that, since the series all centers around the Turtles learning and becoming better warriors, is that Splinter's death was always gonna happen, and the whole cosmic time adventure of the turtles just served to delay it, and his final moment served for the turtles to sometimes tragedy is inevitable. Plus this result into one of the best season finales of the series, in which the turtles, after all their training and all they went through during the series, are able to defeat the Super Shredder, showcasing how they evolve as heroes.
Thanks for making these videos. Ninja turtle content on youtube is really rare and it's good to get someone to make a quality review/video essay on the topic. Even more so when it's someone I've been following for years now
My biggest issue with Leo in the 2012 series wasn't the change of voice actors; it was him being a hypocritical pain in the shell to this brothers! He was always a jerk to everyone about their 'little buddies' in the series: -Mickey and Leatherhead -Raph and Slash-Donnie and Metalhead *To be fair, Leatherhead AND Slash both tried to hurt some of the team at some point, but eventually calmed down. While Karai on the other Foot (I mean other HAND) was clearly working with the enemy, took joy in what she was doing on the opposite side while Leo was 'convinced' that she wanted to split from the Foot...* OMG Leo kept going on and on and on about getting Karai on their side and that she's good blah blah blah. He caused far more harm than good to his brothers in that regard...
@@SurgyShel Leo in 2012 was obsessive to a point where he did become a liability to the rest of the team. (There's such a thing as being obsessed not in love) His brothers and Splinter and their safety and the safety of his ACTUAL friends comes first. Karai was never supposed to be a good person she was always ALWAYS a villian that had some honor but she never switched sides and when she did it would be over something that would help her or serve a purpose for her. In 2003 Leo tried to see the good in people he saw that there was still goodness in Karai she had honor unlike the Shredder but it didn't mean Karai would join their side. She was honor bound to Shredder. She wasn't a grey character she just was not a good person. She was like I said a villian with good qualities. Also Leo wanted to be FRIENDS not lovers. Karai ended up with Chaplin as it should be....it would've been so messed up if Leo ended up with the one person that caused his PTSD. But yeah she did become kind of good. But I didn't like 2012 incest.....just ugh....
@@Melodyofthesea78 ....First it’s not incest and second in 2012 all the turtles had a love interest that made them become a liability sometimes..I think your main problem is that they made karai good in 2012 so don’t bash another character because you don’t like what they did for karai in 2012..they took a different take on the story and if your mad or sad about that I’m sorry but don’t act like Leo was a liability because all the turtles messed in a fight because they liked someone..like look at Donnie...
In some of the fillers in the 2003 TMNT does always come back in play on later episodes. Baxter Stockman in 03 series always been insane it wasn't Shredder's doing. In the first episode he was trying to kill April for find out what he was really doing with the Mouser just like to comics.
So, between this and the last episode, here are my overall thoughts. 1. I prefer the 2003 show. While other TMNT interpretations have their merits, the aforementioned show introduced me to the Heroes in a half shell, so it'll always hold a place in my heart. 2. Chr'ell is a badass Shredder, though I do like the whole "Splinter is Hamato Yoshi and was former friends with Oroku Saki" plot idea. It makes the Darth Vader/Dark Laser reference even funnier in hindsight. 3. While 2012 Karai being Splinter's daughter was interesting, I do agree that it makes her relationship with Leo really weird. I prefer 2003 Karai, especially since she took on the Shredder armor for a while, which I thought was cool. 4. The pacing and plot arcs being repeated or abandoned for the 2012 show were frustrating, as you pointed out with both the revealations of Karai's past and the Donnie-April-Casey love triangle Oddly enough, I was rooting for Donnie...
Great video, as always! I love Turtles Forever so much. It actually aired as Shattered Dimensions was in production, and the thought crossed my mind that we might come off as a copycat (even though it was coincidence -- much like the symbiotes taking over NYC in Web of Shadows just happened to coincide with the same thing happening in New Avengers). But...nah... 😀
For anything good or bad about the 2012 show, I HATED how they finished it!!! :( it was a slap in the face for years of devotion. Loved the 2003 show. That was the best version... accept the Fast forward season.. that sucked. but that's just me.
Yeah, Fast Forward was the weakest season. But I felt the series finale "Turtles Forever" was a great ending. I grew up with the show as well, I was in 3rd Grade when the 2003 series started, and was a Freshman in High School when it ended.
@@RYMAN1321 there is just something about them isnt there that hooks everyone. Turtle forever, Awsome! But I loved the recent adaptation, Turtles vs Batman. It gives me hope that all my children hood cartoons can still be a little bit gritty as apose to the child friendly shallow fic it is now. Cartoons were much darker in the 80s but we all turn out fine. They were more fun and relatable. More soul and feeling from characters. I know the younger generation has different lighter, fluffed experiences now, but I think there missing out.
i love the 2003 series, but i will not denie that the 1012 series is also amazing, both are different, but they both have that TMNT feel to them. COWABUNGA!
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
And to show how much Shredder has evolved from his 80’s counterpart, he recently fought Batman to a standstill
I mean, 80's Mirage Shredder could do that too. People tend to forget that the comics came first, and TMNT has always had this weird mystical stuff involved in it. The Batman/TMNT stuff is based on the current IDW run where Shredder is a reincarnated ninja master that has ties to an immortal dragon god, is basically married to an immortal kitsune witch who is related to that dragon god, and has died like three times and come back just fine each time. Pretty sure a dude with that much power can easily fight Batman. 80's Shredder was a joke.
Nekufan1000000 Yes but 80’s Shredder was voiced by Uncle Phil. Which ironically makes him a tad bit intimidating
@@Nekufan1000000 Suprisingly enough people forget that cannonically the 80s cartoon Shredder was an excellent fighter and even beat the turtles in his fights with them, but more people remember him for his silly moments
AHAHA!!! Thank you for mentioning that!!! Honestly they would’ve killed each other eventually if the fight went on. O.O
He did???
2003 Shredder was Ruthless!!!! Remember the things he did to Baxter Stockman!?!?!?!!? He kept taking him apart until he was literally nothing left but a Brain and an eye in a jar!!!!!!
Facts not mention I was 3-5 when saw thats
Which was weird because shredder was also a head
He also slapped 87 Shredder for proposing an alliance to defeat the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles from both their dimensions. Yeah that sounds ruthless, but it feels more like it was just a take that to the 87 Series and therefore makes him stupid.
Im still surprised the U.S. military never stepped in with the amount of times the Krang cause problems in the city in the 2012 show.
They did the earth defense force did well but everyone was mutated so there was nothing they can do..
I been asking the same thing about Steven Universe, man that show is broken, don't hug fascist dictators
Sergio Ruiz fans of the 2003 show always bashing lol
@@alio6051 Im not a 2003 fanboy, I enjoyed both series
@@Tacom4ster The Crystal Gems are canonically historical figures and are treated as a normal part of life. The Crystal Gems are the Earth Defense Force in this case.
The 2003 was one of the most epic cartoons I’ve ever watched, and showed how crazy and fun this franchise can get, while also including stakes to give the show weight. To this day, it’s still so special
It's a show that seems crazy because it is about samurai aliens, but it is also kind of awesome too.
This is exactly why I'm a patron you make videos about stuff no-one else does and they are all right up my alley
Who else grew up with the 2003 series?
Me
I wish i was older, i would have grown up with both of them
Me, 2003 TMNT is my favorite version👍🐢!
ME It was truly amazing and love the toy commercials and ecerything about it in the mall even the cool bootleg toys that i wish i had a picture for where they're rip body builders.
Not only grew up with it but it's still my favorite animated show of all time :)
Nothing will ever be as charming as the shitty Micheal Bay turtles movie were they are beat-boxing in an elevator on the way to the final fight of the movie
cheers bro,I'll drink to that
I love how they referenced that in the 2012 show but Raph was like *Nah*
@@blackswordsman333 They also mentioned the "TMNT meeting April" scene with Mikey telling everyone he had met Megan Fox on the roof tops.
The 2012 version made a joke about that and meeting megan fox on the roof
Despite the bayturtles movies being generally God-awful, there were a handful of great moments in both movies.
The elevator scene is definitely one of the best.
Oh boy that crack at Deathstroke was more incendiary than I thought it would be. "RARRGH I'M ON DRUGS AND I DON'T CARE THAT I DON'T MAKE SENSE" is totally a good motivation for a character that's supposed to be a genius tactician and strategist.
That's literally bane
@@gob7029 To be fair Bane at least beat Batman unlike the Arrow Deathstroke
Mirakuru’s a hell of a drug
You ever seen the effects of schizophrenia on people like that? Mira Kuru is essentially Schizophrenia times 3 the drug, it makes sense mostly.
the silly anime-esque cartoon took a LOT of liberities with Deathstroke but they till managed to you know give him some sort of good motivation that didn't weaken him or contradict the fact hes a powerful and intelligent badass
I always preferred the story where Splinter was Himato yoshi , cause his relationship with Shredder felt more natural , so I liked the 2012 version better in that part .
Also it made more sense than a pet rat being a master in martial arts lol
@@invadazim4320 because sense is what were missing in a series about mutated turtlers lol
@giftofgab247 No, 2012 handled everything best
giftofgab247 I completely disagree. 2012 Splinter is amazing
@giftofgab247 Better than that pathetic edgelord shit from the 03 series. That crap is so horribly dated
For those returning viewers from part 1 who were particularly salty about my comments on Leo, he's still my childhood favorite and just cuz I think he's a bit stiff nowadays doesn't mean I hate him. And I'm specifically talking about the 2003 version too. CHILLLLLL. But also thank you all so much for commenting and discussing and giving my videos the time of day. Hope part 2 is everything you were hoping for!
People actually got salty over that
GodzillaMendoza
dude I love the 2003 show I remember watching the season 1, 4 parter the Return to New York on VHS but after watching all of the Nickelodeon episodes since first airing In 2012 i seems the 2003 is better then 2012
PS do you like OG Dragon Ball Z the tacky lines and Filler version
Or the one with somewhat remastered visuals better lines and non filler episodes Then watch Dragon Ball Z Kai from 2011-13
I will never chill, 03 Leo is god tier 😂
@@joncarlson2492 better than Leo from Rise of TMNT who isn't the leader and is just as lazy as The other Turtles in Rise
@@maldon3659 this is why I haven't gotten in to that series.. you can do anything you want with the series just don't mess with the turtles characteristics
The 2003 Tmnt needs more attention because it's so underrated with its animation,characters,storytelling,etc
No! It should be: "One thing is for sure though - no TMNT show is complete without a crossover with USAGI YOJIMBO"!
Hell yeah!!
Don't you mean Usagi Yamato?
k apsel1997 Usagi MIYAMOTO, Yojimbo means ‘bodyguard’ in Japanese. Don’t make the same mistake the 2k3 series did
He did act like a bodyguard in an episode from the 2003 show. Abd the boy he was protecting wasbtva fucking brat unlike the one from the 2012
@@cashomnitrix When you do crossover with smth, you name it from the series' title, not it's main character, so I don't stand corrected at all. As a huge fan of Stan Sakai's work, I'm aware of this common misconception.
April's dad: *gets mutated*
April: Ah shit,here we go again
LMAO🤣🤣🤣
I feel like the 2012 Turtles are more for people who enjoyed the Teen Titans show because the format is almost identical to it: having some stand-off episodes, while having a few episodes that continues the overall story. The 2003 Turtles feels more like a DCAU show with more focus on world-building and development.
What? Dcau was the king of one offs and stagnated progression.
This is strictly my opinions on old cartoons. Loved the 2003 Teen Titans preferred that over DCAU series, didn't really care for 2012 Turtles and preferred 2003 Turtles for the reasons listed above in the video .
Funny, I love teen titans and I HATE PROFOUNDLY the 2012 turtles
@@fightingmedialounge519 dcau was the king of everything bruh
@@zodrac516 why do you hate the 2012 tmnt ?
As someone who was a kid and watched 2012 on Saturday mornings as it came out, I can confirm binging it makes the show a little painful and it's much better experience slowly
Agreed
Definitely. I was pretty unsatisfied since I grew up watching the first two seasons but stopped following then, and then recently watched it all and could see the problems Mendoza pointed out.
I love the '12 series, but my biggest gripe with it, which you've covered here, were the storylines that were left unfinished. So many unanswered questions: Is Timothy/Mutagen Man still around or is he straight-up doomed to be a gelatinous abomination forever stuck in a containment vat? What happened to Pigeon Pete since Slash says they shouldn't talk about him?
And back when the show was still airing, I too found it annoying that when things get resolved like Karai/Miwa joining the good guys, it gets undone immediately.
Not to mention we don't see enough of Raph and Y'Gythba, or Newtralizer since we don't see that dude from S2 until S5. It took THREE FUCKING SEASONS to see him roam around the streets and then team up with Dregg to use super powers, which makes sense for his character but visually is very boring since it would be cooler seeing him fight the Turtles instead, and then he dies. Same thing happened with Stockmann.
And the ending was bullshit. Apparently a Mutagen bomb can kill people? So they kill a lot off, and just say Leo is a mutant. It was just shock value from an edgy 14 year old than a meaning ending to the series.
The 2012 Shredder is not just girl crazy he had way more to him like the fact that he was raised by the man who killed his father and did a parallel to mess with Splinter by taking his kid just like his own father it could of been shown more in the time travel episode for sure but his obsession was as black and white and basic as you stated and he is still one of the most complex versions definitely top 3 with 03 and IDW
True, he had a great backstory and was more personal to splinter but 2012 shredder was a little to no antagonist to anything in the show
2003 shredder was the most evil by far. He was willing to destroy himself and all of the ninja turtle dimensions.
That series finale was epic AF.
And the fact that his minions inadvertently take him out was quite fitting IMO.
So was the 2012 shredder. He let the earth explode just so he could kill splinter lmao
@@sophiadebar382 bro 2003 shredder killed millions of innocent people and caused civil war on planets he was the best shredder so was 2003 TMNT best series
@@sophiadebar382 plus 2003 shredder wanted to destroy every multiverse which includes ninja turtles 💀💀💀
2012 shredder was literally the same all he cared about was revenge he wanted splinter dead under any circumstances
You could hear a pin drop in the first episode when shredder kills a purple dragon guy
I just laughed
I’m a bit biased towards the 2003 show because that’s the one I grew up with but I like the 2012 show as well. That being said, I think you summed it up pretty well the reason why it didn’t click with me as well as the former.
Ditto
Kind of sad to know that Rise of the TMNT was screwed by the network, making it the only iteration of the Turtles to be actually cancelled. We're getting the second season and maybe a movie and that's it.
It's not a bad show action wise, but I feel like the writing was kinda weak and the characters are all a little too similar.
Chris Chen it’s cancelled?
A Crystal Shard Oh ok. I never heard that news.
Rise of the TMNT is not the only iteration to get cancelled (potentially). Everyone seems to have forgotten about The Next Mutation.
Also there were a bunch of canceled seasons I the 2k3 series
As someone who has grown up watching the 2012 series, and prefers it, I would still call this two-parter an excellent video. You did a great job recongnizing each show’s strengths and weaknesses.
But did you watch the 2003 one? If not you should it's great
Hassan yes I did. It’s an amazing show. It even has some things that are better than 2012. I just felt more connected to the 2012 turtles and their story arcs. I can name some of the prominent characters and say which ones I liked more.
Leo:2012(I did love 2003’s Leo’s ptsd arc)
Ralph:2012
Don:2012
Mike:2012
April:2003
Casey:2003
Splinter:2012
Shredder:2012
Karai:2012
Bishop:2003
Krrang/Utrom:2003
Letherhead:2012
"grown up watching the 2012 series"
I feel old.
I'm sorry but do you really think his name is Ralph? Lmfao. He's Raphael (Raph)
@@shanecorcoran2542 but yeah other than that your list is pretty accurate for me except I liked the 2003 shredder and Karai more
I've been trying to figure what was wrong with the 2012 version and you finally put it into words.
Quilo Sky exactly thank you
Its still a great show tho
@@spideyguy3315 True tho
Eh, not really. His critiscims are surface-level at best.
@@spideyguy3315 honestly, as a whole, it's very flawed to the point where it brings it down a lot but the good parts of it are still very well made.
It's kinda like being promised dessert after dinner. Dinner was incredible, a perfect meal that was about to be rounded out with some hopefully amazing dessert, but the wait for the dessert is so long that you start to get a little frustrated that it still hasn't made it.
You then get one part of the dessert but the rest is still being prepared. You enjoy the first part of the dessert but then you have to wait again for the other parts. Repeat this another three times then you get 2012 TMNT.
The one off episodes are amazing and these incarnations of the turtles along with Master Splinter are probably the best versions we've ever had along with some great one off episodes. But after a while it just takes so damn long to get anything accomplished and even when something is accomplished it barely lasts.
It gets tiring and tiring after a point where you just don't care anymore. Dinner and the few chunks of dessert you got we're pretty good but having to await so long just to have the full course meal makes it so that you just don't care anymore.
You did a Tremendous job covering my 2 favorite TMNT shows pal.
Thanks!
@@GodzillaMendoza Why did you make that gross sexual innuendo with Don and his bo staff to April? The frick, dude?
@@SweetChildofMine-l5y it was too funny 😂
2003 Baxter was such a fun scumbag, that even when he gets his comeuppance, gets more twisted as he becomes"more machine than man", Black nerd Baxter of 2012 just meh
Eh I liked the more tragic and unwilling version
plsu we get a really good episode showing his past and how he gradually fell to villainy
I like both version, but 2003 Baxter was the better character.
I liked the 2012 one more, because it showed an actual human scientist that was forced to be a slave
Yeah they wasted 2012 Baxter stockman
We all have our favorite interpretation of the TMNT, they are all valid and they all can be enjoyed by someone, YES EVEN THE (not by) MICHEAL BAY MOVIES, i mean i don't like them but i am sure someone does.
But i think we should all agree, The Objectivly best show, Is Ninja Turtles the Next Mutation.
Despite having some gripes with them (their version of Casey Jones, the changes to the Turtles' origin, etc.), I don't even dislike those movies. They're still really fun and capture the spirit of the characters well enough
The Michael bay turtles were great
@@GodzillaMendoza they’re kind of like average MCU movies. they’re fun and cool but they aren’t completely terrible or completely amazing
Best parts about every series:
TMNT 2003: Worldbuilding
TMNT 2012: Mutants
Rise of TMNT: Animation
That's pretty accurate.
Rise of TMNT is trash. Like actual trash nothing about that show is good
@@LinkTWrglr its really not that bad lol pretty fun show from what I've seen
You forgot the original cartoon, what about that one?
@@LeopoldLitchenstein That one started it all, thats the best part about the original
Why is that live action Saban show called the next mutation when the 2012 show has way more mutations than you can count
Because it tried to be clever and sound cool, to hide the fact it was terrible.
Showing actual fear and danger in the 2012 show is what makes this show impressive and unique, y’all have to understand this aired in 2012 - 2017 on NICK FOR KIDS on the other hand 2003 turtles really didn’t have any limits while 2012 did so give it props for convincing nick to show actual danger and death.
(btw my opinion is kinda bias because i grew up with the 2012 show)
I still remember watching the 2003 version as a kid. The one moment from the show that really stood out to me and admittedly shocked me was the one episode where Leo and the shredder duel and Leo cuts his head off, only for the shredder’s body before the end credits stands up and picks up his head. That stunned me so much that it’s still stuck with me after all these years.
My childhood brain remembers that and still gets shocked everytime I rewatch it
I like 2012 TMNt, but this review made me interested to rewatch the 2003 series. The last season of 2012 played more to it's strength with shorter episodic narratives, like the cool Mad Max parody
I love the 2003 show. My childhood turtle show.
Same here.
Being born in 1995, it was the first version I was familiar with. Remember watching it on Miguzi and CW 4Kids.
"They never look for a cure, which exists"
Theres an episode where they find a cure that the turtles made and "razar" tries his damndest to get the thing the whole episode. Your not wrong but I should point that out.
FRl
That was the episode where the cure was first introduced, and they just sort of give up on it after that
No, they still look. Just have other priorities.
Yeah, that’s true but after it failed once he never attempts or talks about it again. That’s what Godzilla is trying to saying
I'm glad you covered and reviewed this series side by side.
Most people who talk TMNT are usually those who grew up with the 80's cartoon, or recently watched the 2012 series.
It's refreshing to see someone take on this series, and how strong of a show it is.
Still waiting for the show that started me on the path of a TMNT to be on DVD as a whole. The 2003 series is awesome and was my intro to the series. Hope to see a box set of it soon.
The 2003 series sucked
@giftofgab247 No, it's because nobody cares. The 2012 series was leagues better
I want that AND for them to get the NECA treatment like the 80s and 1990 ones got
KarnRulez Why are you telling me? I don’t care if someone hates it, I care if someone can relate
@giftofgab247 they're both good
I grew up with the 03 TMNT so maybe Im more bias towards them. One villain you forgot to mention was hun. Personally I couldn't take his 2012 interpretation seriously. I kept thinking about how much he looked like Bruce Lee. I definitely prefer his 03 look. A strong 2nd in command. It also better because it gave Casey history with the purple dragons.
That’s why I love the tmnt franchise, no matter what, when, or who does it. It is done unique and is enjoyable
I know right
and say that now ✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊✊
The 80’s turtles could have made a thrown away line like, “Wow! You guys are more fun than the last yahoo’s we were stuck with!”
Sounds like something you hear in Teen Titans Go.
You've convinced me I need to find the 2003 show and watch it.
Though I definitely have to agree that the 2012 show had an issue with a lot of it's plot progression. The Northampton arc is 8 episodes of bats**t insane stuff that has no plot significance at all and truly feels like filler, and while I liked the turtles in space portion way more you could make the same argument there. I do think the character interactions were great though in that show, and I can overlook the slow paced filler filled plot when the characters are entertaining to watch.
I will say however the IDW comic did the villains really good. I love the rivalry between Shredder and Krang due to their long history with each other, and I think Kitsune is a great mastermind villain. Agent Bishop is downright scary with how he runs the EPF. I also like how they handled Alopex as a villain turned good guy, way better handled than Karai from the 2012 show. Also having the Mutanimals and Splinter be pseudo villains at points in the story made it very interesting in the latter half of the comic.
there is one episode of 2003 I highly recommend from one of the later seasons (possibly season 3 or 4, I don'tknow). It's called Insane in the Membrane and essentially explores the hstory of a character previously portrayed only as a one note egotistical asshole with the episode actually showing that, funnily, he WAS human and thus wasn't ALWAYS an evil jackass and it even ends on a really tragic note.
@@sarafontanini7051 I look forward to watching that episode when I get to it.
@@sarafontanini7051 You didn't get this link from me, *Wink Wink*
www.wcostream.com/playlist-cat/tmnt-2003
I relate with you on 100% of this. And now I have to watch the 2003 version.
@@user-mh9dx7nz2r Yep, too bad the entire show never got a full legitimate purchasable release. The 1st, 2nd, and 5th seasons did, but the rest was spliced up into miniature, out of order episode bundles, if they got sold at all.
Everything caps off with the movie Turtles Forever. A crossover between the 03, 80s, and Mirage Turtles. The American release for this was edited, missing footage, only in full screen. The European release is uncut and available in widescreen though.
I think the primary issue with 2012’s pacing came to the writers wanting to put too much emphasis on Shredder’s developing anti-redemption arc. By the end of his life, he’s mutated into this unrecognizable rotten form of his former intimidating self and while that was visually and narratively cool to see, I think the story’s overall progression suffered because of it, stunting it’s rewatch-ability as a negative consequence.
10:35. Donnie intended to cure Splinter but the latter refused, stating that his time as a human was over & he was content with his new life.
That’s what he meant by that
I was introduced to the 2003 series when I saw Turtles Forever (i know, i know), and I was HOOKED after Utrom Shredder delivered his opening line...
"What fools are these... so WEARY of life, that they take MY name, THE SHREDDER, in VAIN?!"
It's like, holy SHIT dude, i HAVE to watch this show! And I gotta say, I wasn't disappointed!
So did you watch it and how did you like it :)
I did love the 2003 shredder
@@odil7583 I did enjoy it very much!
Turtles Forever was complete garbage! while I did enjoy some episodes of the 2003 TMNT Series, it was mainly towards the first 4 seasons and maybe season 5, but after that it became worse. I prefer the 2012 Series and the 1987 Series then the 2003 Series, but unlike the Next Mutation, I don’t think it’s one of the worst shows.
Such a well-made video! I remember dropping out of the 2003 TMNT show, for whatever reason, but this video series makes me want to revisit the series, again. Great job, dude!
Damn right, you will revisit it, boy!
Definitely rewatching the 2003 series again. That show was legendary until they went to the future. It got sort of weird after that.
The 2003 Shredder said this line which to me is the most badass line when he destroyed Aprils store in Season 1
"Like the Phoenix I have risen from my ashes. And into my fire, YOU SHALL FALL."
10:39
Donny did tried to turn Splinter back into human in season 2, Splinter reveled that he* accepted his current form in the end of the episode where they un-mutated Kerbie.
I agree with GodzillaMendoza, the progression from 2003 TMNT is genius.
Well we can all agree that Tiger claw, bebop and Rocksteady in the 2012 show were awesome
Ironically the final battle between the turtles and shredder in 2012 is more comic accurate than the final battle between the turtles and shredder in 2003.
THANK YOU
How did this come out 11 hours ago, it was notified right now. TH-cam is ridiculous.
Same
The notifications still suck
Great, insightful, and well-edited as always. Keep on making content like this and I'll keep watching, I don't care if I have to wait.
Someone may have brought this up already, but the episode where the Retromutagen was introduced, Donnie did want to use it to return Splinter to human. He had only made two doses of the retromutagen, one for Kirby, and one for Splinter. Splinter, of course, is moved that one of his sons would do something like this for him, but tells him to cure Kirby first and then he would think about Donnie's offer. "I'll think about it" in the Japanese speaking forms is a passive-aggressive way of saying "I'm not interested". The first dose was destroyed by Stockman when he interfered and then the second one was also destroyed because Rahzar learned about it and wanted it for himself leading to a massive chase throughout the city over the retromutagen and by good fortune, Kirby was hit with one drop and able to be reverted to human. At the end of the episode, Donnie starts to declare that now he knows Retromutagen is possible, the next batch he makes will be used to restore Splinter's humanity. That's when Splinter says that he appreciates his son's gesture, but he prefers being as he is with his sons.
Still, the retromutagen thing could have made a good storyline once it was revealed if it had been done properly, particularly since it requires April's DNA to make it. For example, Stockman, Rahzar, Bebop, and Rocksteady all learn about the Retromutagen. Stockman sees is when he interferes and realizes what it is, Rhazar overhears that it exists and wants it for himself, while Bebop sees the Retromutagen with Donnie and thinks it's something he could use as a weapon causing Mikey to blurt out that it is Retromutagen. Then Rocksteady realizes that could return them to human. We also see Stockman attempting to create retromutagen for himself at one point during the 3rd season which he quickly hides when Shredder enters the lab.
Rahzar likely would have kept the existence of the Retromutagen to himself since he has no love for Xever and feels he can die as a fish for all he cares.
Stockman also would have kept the knowledge of Retromutagen to himself as well, though he would have an attitude of "If that Turtle could make Retromutagen, certainly I can do that too."
Bebop and Rocksteady are more likely to accidentally mention the existence of retromutagen while Shredder is in earshot. Now, this plausibility isn't there to show Donnie as being played off as a special snowflake in any way. I mean Donnie is capable enough fighter on his own, but compared to his brothers yes he is the weakest fighter on the team. But still, groups such as the Foot Clan are more likely to brush him off as the weak one. But even so, Shredder would still come to the assumption that if Retromutagen is something that one of the Turtles has created, it could be used as a weapon to weaken the forces he has gained. So that meant either taking the Retromutagen from the turtles so it could be used against them. Or targeting Donatello for elimination to make sure more retromutagen can't be made. It's through that someone like Stockman or Tigerclaw learns April's DNA is the key to make Retromutagen and they turn their attention away from Donatello to target her instead.
So kids, what did we learn from 2012?
*Bro’s before Hoes?*
Good job Timmy!
I personally loved the horror inspired episodes in the 2012 version! Seeing aliens or Jason vorhees in tmnt was a fun and interesting take on the show. I can’t remember if the 03 show did this tho
TMNT 2003 had a fairly infamous episode where they fight a Cthullu-esque monster that fucks with their minds. There’s also an episode where Baxter Stockman makes a new body and it starts to degrade while he’s in it.
I grew up watching the 2003 one. Seeing this brings back memories.
with the 2003 ninja turtles there were a few episodes that were planned but never made because of issues the censor board had with things in the episodes
I forgot the title of the episode, but there was supposed to be an episode in Season 5 of the 2003 show where we get some backstory on the Garbage Man. He and Hun were conjoined twins, they were separated when they were little, and the Garbage Man was thrown into the Garbage thus giving him his name. Since the episode was too dark, even after Peter Laird made some changes to it, it was never made. Damn shame.
2012 is actually so good because it's a mix of griddy and funny it's just a perfect tmnt show
As someone who grew up on the 2012 and hasn’t seen the 2003 series, I agree with ur points and thx for helping me get a new perspective on the show I loved and acknowledge its flaws
There’s also the plus that in 2012 Leatherhead had a great story arc
The biggest problem I had with the 2012 TMNT is that it's rarely ever used it's side-characters. It tried to have a monster-of-the-week formula, but ALL of them end with a stinger that hints to that villain returning, but they never do.
And if a character was a potential friend to the turtles, they were as good-as-dead. That role-playing bird with the illusion powers would of been cool to see again. Honeycut is lost in space. And poor LeatherHead had more episodes where he's been presumed dead or died than episodes were he actually helped. And April's father went from a badass to crowd that got mutated every time.
It wouldn't feel like there was so much filler if they didn't have so many one-time guest characters.
You know, Schredder in the original run of the comics, being killed in issue one and all he really has no personnality, he doesn't even seem that evil, he just comes up when some rando challenge him to a fight on a rooftop and is legit surprised to see four green monster wanting him dead. Sure the battle is fierce but we really don't know him. His personnality from the 2003 show was kind of created for the show. I personnally love how petty he is in the 2012 series and not just this generic big bad Satan kinda guy
Bishop in 03 was the original Batman vs TMNtT
I agree with a lot of the flaws of the 2012 show. I gotta say though, while still frustrating, 2012 Karai's journey was less annoying for me than 2003 Karai. 12 is all in for the crime stuff and probably turns a blind eye to his scumminess because of her upbringing, but when she sees the light she actually decides to get away from shredder. 03 Karai sees all the iffy stuff and either stays quiet or speaks up and then shuts up when told to, AND STILL KEEPS HELPING SHREDDER. Her telling shredder off is seriously downplayed by the fact that she was still helping him in that movie, and every other god damn time before. At least when 12 Karai took over the foot it was just a ninja clan and she wasn't trying to kill the turtles like 03 Karai.
God, I hated 03 Karai so much for that.
I hate Any version of Karai who works for shredder. In the original comics Karai was the leader of the Japan branch of the foot clan and took over the NY branch when Shredder died.
I agree with what u said about 2k12 karai but not 03 Karai in 2k3 dosent like how motivated he is by bloodlust but she helps him cause he raised her and is honor bound but once he goes to far in Turtles Forever she helps destroy him
There's a huge difference, 03 Karai never seeks redemption. She nearly kills the remaining Turtles in Season 4 and the only reason why she didn't try this for the rest of the show is because Leo makes it clear that he will kill her the next time they trade blows.
I distinctly remember seeing frozen Timothy in the lab in the final season, during an episode where the turtles are just hanging out and bored because they have nothing to do. And I was like “Donny! Timothy is RIGHT THERE!!! Make some god damn retro mutagen!”
You are so right about the repetition in 2012 and the way they wasted characters. I think Saki and Yoshi’s relationship makes for a more compelling Shredder and KMR does an excellent job with the voice as well. Scottie Ray’s voice is top notch though and possibly the better of the two.
Remember when Leonardo in the 2003 show killed an incarnation of Satan
2003 turtles just built so much after the initial foundation made from the og comics . Forever my favorite tmnt because they just went on so many adventures . And even got power upgrades to their characters. 2013 is good too and tried to do it’s own thing but personally for me there were moments where it felt stale. Watched the 90s version not to long ago it’s a good laugh and throwback
10:15 THANK YOU! I thought I was the only one who cared about the Pulverizer not getting cured!
I'm really glad you've made a comparison of these two shows. I had thought of doing something like that, but I never finished either so I hoped someone else would do it and I could go "oh cool, I don't have to work to see entertainment" thanks! Love watching this stuff!!!😁😁😁
I love the 2003 turtles used to get up and watch then every Saturday morning
Well Donatello did offer the retro mutagen to Splinter to turn him back into a human,but after the first two doses of the retro mutagen were destroyed. Splinter told him to use the last of it on April's dad and that he's been a rat for so long that he's made peace with it.
TMNT 2012 has a nostalgic place in my heart, but I admit the storytelling started to drop the ball after season 2 in my opinion. Season 1 had this amazing overarching plot build up, but then so many plot threads were just dropped by the end of season 2. Then in my opinion the Triceraton arc came out of nowhere and cut the plot development with Karai, Splinter, and Shredder short AGAIN. It could have been so much more. Maybe it could have attracted a much larger fanbase if they just focused on writing a better story.
Unfortunally, nick was planning to change the program when they was planning season 4, thats the big reason for the mistakes en TMNT 2012, they was trying to do their best, they had the ideas but nick loves to destroy the best of him.
The dimension tournament in the 2003 version was so cool
I feel like most people don’t know that the 2003 version of Shredder is actually based off the Utroms in the original comic
Yeah the status quo is a good observation. 2003 was all about changing the status quo every single season. 2012 changed almost nothing for a billion episodes.
Almost nothing. You mean like kara's heritage her species and alegeince.
Kye Dysarthria she was the only that had development like Harry Osborn in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon while almost everything didn’t change like tmnt 2012 cartoon.
@@skybite “She was the only one that had development like Harry Osborn in the Ultimate Spider-Man cartoon....”
That’s a lie and you know it.
Guys,what show did y'all watch? The 2012 series did change the status quo.
@@skybite only one? Yeah i dont think so. April,shredder,leo,doonie,raph,splinter,tigerclaw have all went through development as well. Not just karai.
i think the best way for me to explain how i feel characters were handled in both of these shows is that while 2003 overall did less to give their characters depth, what was there was well executed and fleshed out. 2012 feels like it tries to do more to give each character some amount of depth, but a lot of the times it comes out muddled because the writers seem to have a hard time really committing to, or really exploring any of it.
Huh? 2012 does explore characters and development while fleshing them out wtf r u talking about? Mikey’s starts off as a dumb innocent child which is explained in his space episode while still having other attributes that get more explored gradually in every season like his emotionally empathetic side, his potential knowledge over Donnie, his other hobby’s, him being more focused and series in fights, him having more a straight comedic relieve personality rather being completely dumb, his crushes, him standing up for himself more, having more scenes of him potentially being the best fighter, and his angry side while still having him be completely capable and op in dimension x. This is probably the least developed and fleshed out main character in the whole show and this is what they give him how in the world is his character muffled and not explored lol? If ur not intelligent enough to notice subtle changes and writing in a character that aren’t directly throwed in ur face maybe that’s why u prefer 03?
I personally like the 2012 series the best. I've watched every version except Rise. I've just not gotten a chance to watch it, but people who hate are super toxic about it. At least that is what I have experienced. I grew up with the 87' TMNT. I've even enjoyed the less great versions (Coming Out of Their Shells & Next Mutation). I even got to start reading the original comics. The reason I like 2012 the best is iI feel the story is well written and the animation is interesting (even though I hated it at first). With the exception of Casey, who is best in the 90s movie, 2012 has my favorite versions of each of the characters. I especially love Splinter's design. The voice acting and cameos are fantastic. I'm happy to see the Turtles getting some love.
Casey jones has way more screen time than tmnt 2003 casey jones. Thats why 2012 casey is my favorite
Maybe I’m misremembering but wasn’t there an episode where Bradford tried to force Stockman to find a cure for him? And then later on when the retromutagen was invented he was actively trying to get it for himself?
Yep you are remembering right
If that did happen, it was probably for one episode in season 2 and then dropped entirely for the rest of the show. I feel like my eyes glossed over and I got a little bored with some of the filler episodes at around that point, because I remember all the story episodes pretty vividly. If I screwed up that part, then my bad
@giftofgab247 yeah but that's 2 particularly bad episodes, the rest is standard kids network serialized stuff
@Andrei Iosif Come on i was loving the discussion, first one that didnt devolve into name calling and insults.
Why did you guys stop?
That was like the first time the cure was introduced and then he straight up stops caring about it. IIRC this is the same episode where he becomes Razar.
And for some reason said cure is never developed for Mutagen Man and then the show forgets about him. Which is fair, he sucked, but they already did 2 episodes with him so they might as well make a 3rd and finish it.
The problem with the 2012 series is that it can't properly build up characters. While they develop them well there afraid to take risks like the 2003 series. Baxter stockman Is a good example in 2003 tmnt everytime he fails he loses a limb and he's pretty much a robot at the end of it so you remember every win from the turtles almost killed stockman. This shows that 2003 will take all the risks they can, if the 2012 series wanted to take more risks they should have brought back old characters or killed more off
I feel like people ignore the fact it was on Nickelodeon you could tell the show could have been really dark but just wasn’t on the right channel
@@elijahb30 agreed. But I mean we did have dark shows like avatar the last airbender and korra idk why they couldn't do it for tmnt
I Guess they only care about status quo
@@kingdedede4337 I mean they did still go dark towards the end
@@kingdedede4337 those shows ended short 🤔
While I will agree that the mutant villains do stagnate, they do also hate their mutations and have often got into scraps with the turtles over cures or possible ways to be cured. Like over Baxtor Stockman.
Oh yes because an alien that is evil for the sake of being evil is so much better than a human being that lost himself in anger and hate that eventually does anything to win to the point of mutating himself just to win
Not every villain needs to be complex or sympathetic. Plenty of the most iconic villains in fiction can be summed up as “evil for the sake of being evil” (Palpatine, Frieza, Joker, Darkseid, Green Goblin, Megatron, Bowser, Dr. Eggman, etc.).
To me Leo is the deepest character of the Turtles. Even tho he on surface is the most static, when you really delve into his character, he is the most flawed and complex imo. He has this anger in him that he doesn't let out, he feels he has to be the best at everything which is definently a flaw
It was nice seeing you look at these two shows. Since I grew up with both these versions, I can’t really force myself to choose which one is better. There are elements each one does better and worse, and I just recommend any newcomer just choose what’s their personal preferences are.
P.S. 2012 Shredder is the most badass simp in fiction
Me: Laughs in Silver Surfer(Cartoon show) ver of Thanos
Someone somewhere said that the 2003 TMNT was the Batman Animated series of the TMNT franchise and I may be biased but I completely agree with this comparison.
I think the reason the turtle fandom is more accepting than others is that TMNT is such a ridiculous concept to begin with that you have to have a certain mindset in order to get into it, despite its popuparity. Also helps that it hasn't had a single bad cartoon in it's entire library.
Also to add, while I respect and also kind share your opinion about the slow pace of the show, of how there were repetitions of plots during the series, I disagree about Splinter's death and April's father mutation.
In the case of April's father becoming mutant, it actually served a propuse in the story, since the first time this happen it was because of the turtles, which results in a rift between April and the turtles, with the heroes trying during the second season to fix it and regain April's forgiveness (which was season 2 central theme : making amends). While the second time, it served to showcase how the heroes had failed against the Kraang's invasion and how both the Turtles and April don't have their mentors and father figures to help them.
Now about Splinter's death, i view this is that, since the series all centers around the Turtles learning and becoming better warriors, is that Splinter's death was always gonna happen, and the whole cosmic time adventure of the turtles just served to delay it, and his final moment served for the turtles to sometimes tragedy is inevitable. Plus this result into one of the best season finales of the series, in which the turtles, after all their training and all they went through during the series, are able to defeat the Super Shredder, showcasing how they evolve as heroes.
Yeah but about splinter’s death, shredder killed splinter the same way is what he”s saying. It’s kinda frustrating to do important things twice
1:17 Finally, somebody else who remembers that Joker. Mad respect, Mendoza.
Thanks for making these videos. Ninja turtle content on youtube is really rare and it's good to get someone to make a quality review/video essay on the topic. Even more so when it's someone I've been following for years now
My biggest issue with Leo in the 2012 series wasn't the change of voice actors; it was him being a hypocritical pain in the shell to this brothers!
He was always a jerk to everyone about their 'little buddies' in the series:
-Mickey and Leatherhead
-Raph and Slash-Donnie and Metalhead
*To be fair, Leatherhead AND Slash both tried to hurt some of the team at some point, but eventually calmed down. While Karai on the other Foot (I mean other HAND) was clearly working with the enemy, took joy in what she was doing on the opposite side while Leo was 'convinced' that she wanted to split from the Foot...*
OMG Leo kept going on and on and on about getting Karai on their side and that she's good blah blah blah. He caused far more harm than good to his brothers in that regard...
He really didn’t...but ok..
The only thing he did go on about is how Karai is good a lot and she ended up being good anyways..
@@SurgyShel Leo in 2012 was obsessive to a point where he did become a liability to the rest of the team. (There's such a thing as being obsessed not in love) His brothers and Splinter and their safety and the safety of his ACTUAL friends comes first. Karai was never supposed to be a good person she was always ALWAYS a villian that had some honor but she never switched sides and when she did it would be over something that would help her or serve a purpose for her. In 2003 Leo tried to see the good in people he saw that there was still goodness in Karai she had honor unlike the Shredder but it didn't mean Karai would join their side. She was honor bound to Shredder. She wasn't a grey character she just was not a good person. She was like I said a villian with good qualities. Also Leo wanted to be FRIENDS not lovers. Karai ended up with Chaplin as it should be....it would've been so messed up if Leo ended up with the one person that caused his PTSD. But yeah she did become kind of good. But I didn't like 2012 incest.....just ugh....
@Tr3lyn Parker I still like the one who voiced Leo, Donnie and Raph in the 2003 version. Didn't like Mikeys voice though.
Im pretty sure you wrote the same comment on part one :/
@@Melodyofthesea78 ....First it’s not incest and second in 2012 all the turtles had a love interest that made them become a liability sometimes..I think your main problem is that they made karai good in 2012 so don’t bash another character because you don’t like what they did for karai in 2012..they took a different take on the story and if your mad or sad about that I’m sorry but don’t act like Leo was a liability because all the turtles messed in a fight because they liked someone..like look at Donnie...
In some of the fillers in the 2003 TMNT does always come back in play on later episodes. Baxter Stockman in 03 series always been insane it wasn't Shredder's doing. In the first episode he was trying to kill April for find out what he was really doing with the Mouser just like to comics.
So, between this and the last episode, here are my overall thoughts.
1. I prefer the 2003 show. While other TMNT interpretations have their merits, the aforementioned show introduced me to the Heroes in a half shell, so it'll always hold a place in my heart.
2. Chr'ell is a badass Shredder, though I do like the whole "Splinter is Hamato Yoshi and was former friends with Oroku Saki" plot idea. It makes the Darth Vader/Dark Laser reference even funnier in hindsight.
3. While 2012 Karai being Splinter's daughter was interesting, I do agree that it makes her relationship with Leo really weird. I prefer 2003 Karai, especially since she took on the Shredder armor for a while, which I thought was cool.
4. The pacing and plot arcs being repeated or abandoned for the 2012 show were frustrating, as you pointed out with both the revealations of Karai's past and the Donnie-April-Casey love triangle Oddly enough, I was rooting for Donnie...
5:42 okay this got me😂
I haven't even noticed it took that long to tell everyone about karai being his daughter 💀
Great video, as always! I love Turtles Forever so much. It actually aired as Shattered Dimensions was in production, and the thought crossed my mind that we might come off as a copycat (even though it was coincidence -- much like the symbiotes taking over NYC in Web of Shadows just happened to coincide with the same thing happening in New Avengers). But...nah... 😀
For anything good or bad about the 2012 show, I HATED how they finished it!!! :( it was a slap in the face for years of devotion.
Loved the 2003 show. That was the best version... accept the Fast forward season.. that sucked. but that's just me.
Yeah, Fast Forward was the weakest season.
But I felt the series finale "Turtles Forever" was a great ending.
I grew up with the show as well, I was in 3rd Grade when the 2003 series started, and was a Freshman in High School when it ended.
@@RYMAN1321 there is just something about them isnt there that hooks everyone. Turtle forever, Awsome! But I loved the recent adaptation, Turtles vs Batman. It gives me hope that all my children hood cartoons can still be a little bit gritty as apose to the child friendly shallow fic it is now. Cartoons were much darker in the 80s but we all turn out fine. They were more fun and relatable. More soul and feeling from characters. I know the younger generation has different lighter, fluffed experiences now, but I think there missing out.
Why that was a good way to end the series
@@therailfanenthusiast8766 which version are you talking about?
@@glazierblue573 the 2012 series finale
2003 TMNT is the best very underrated in my opinion
Fun Fact: the decision to make Shredder an Utrom was made by TMNT co-creator Peter Laird
i love the 2003 series, but i will not denie that the 1012 series is also amazing, both are different, but they both have that TMNT feel to them.
COWABUNGA!
Although i saw the 2003 incarnation before and found it to be good, dont take away the credit from the 2012 one. That one was really good .
Godzilla “totally not a TMNT channel” Mendoza
Personally I thought Splinter’s death was really sad due to the turtles reaction. It really hit me in the feels.