I think both Intel and AMD reps in this were very good. I mean they never spill the beans on upcoming products, but they both know their own platforms and clearly were trying to be as open as they were allowed. its not easy !
It really is not surprising to have supposedly slower kits beating faster ones because sadly all we see from the kit is the primaries but other settings can increase much more performance. For example, I can easily beat a 6400 c32 kit that is using xmp with a tuned 6000 kit.
It would be so much easier to compare memory latency if it were advertised in nanoseconds rather than cycles, so we could directly compare latency, independent of the speed we ran the memory at. Unfortunately, absolute CAS latency hasn't improved since the earliest days of DDR, and that doesn't fit the "newer is always better" narrative beloved of the industry. Ordering the reviewed kits by absolute CAS latency, adding in some legacy specs for comparison we get: CL16 @ 4266 = 7.5ns DDR4-4266 CL9 @ 2400 = 7.5ns DDR3-2400 CL4 @ 1066 = 7.5ns DDR2-1066 CL34 @ 7000 = 9.7ns DDR5-7000 XMP £195 Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2x16GB) CL30 @ 6000 = 10ns DDR5-6000 EXPO £310 Dominator Titanium First Edition 64GB (2x32GB) CL2 @ 400 = 10ns DDR-400 CL40 @ 6800 = 11.76ns DDR5-6800 XMP £130 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB) CL36 @ 5600 = 12.86ns DDR5-5600 XMP £220 Vengeance RGB White 64GB (2x32GB) CL38 @ 5200 = 14.62ns DDR5-5200 XMP £105 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB) CL2 @ 100 = 20ns PC100 DDR5-6000 would need to be down at CL23 to get close to CL16@4266. Why does the Vengeance RGB (12.86ns) do so well in so many tests? That would require more testing, but it wouldn't be the first time that CPU/cache issues resulted in 'slower' speeds being 'faster'. It would certainly be interesting to see what running the Dominator sticks with CL28 @ 5600 (10ns) did to the benchmark results. This may be one of those situations where lower latency at a lower MT/s works better overall than higher latency at a higher bandwidth.
Yeah, I would have liked the first word latency to have been included in the video, but nice of you to do the work here, so I don't have to calculate it myself.
I picked up a couple kits of GSkill CL14@4000 = 7.0ns last year, Waiting for the 14900ks to come out and going to pair them together for a low latency system
You need to do some testing with command rate and number of ranks vs locked memory timings then optimized memory clock speeds to what each setup (1T/2T, 1Rx8*2, 2Rx2*2, 2Rx8*4) can max out at. That would show much cleaner why some kits will perform better than others.
When I was selecting memory for my 7700x I just cheated and used the exact same kit they supplied to the reviewers. No way they would give anything but the most optimal kit for that. That turned out to be CL30 6000, which matches up nicely with your charts for AMD.😲 I would be interested to see how the RAM effects 3d cache chips, my guess is that it will have little/no difference on performance.
I bought some G Skill Trident Z5 6000 CL30 for my 7600x rig, and it’s been great so far. I don’t get into the nitty gritty of trying to OC RAM. As long as it’s running at EXPO speeds, I’m happy
With all due respect to you Leo, I have a sneaking suspicion motherboard sets loose any secondary and tertiary timings that don't fit into XMP when going for higher frequencies. If so, then it might be taking a look if those were at least minimized if you can't keep the same values which are set at 5600MT/s. Also I assume it might be worth finding other voltage sweetspots, I doubt auto settings allow for training tight values at higher speeds. Love the channel, don't mind me suspecting your testing methodology, those ARE realiatic scenarios for plug n play type of people, but for anyone who has knowledge to manually set overclocks and timings I think it lacks in info. Would love to see either BIOS inputs or at least zentimings and asrock timing software (or whatever is used on intel to check timings) screenshots.
I assume he used the XMP/EXPO profiles thus the primary, secondary and tertiary timings have been set that way. I have no problem with that (manually set overclocks are not for ordinary users), but since those XMP/EXPO timings can be still not in line proportionally to one another, I agree that he should have displayed them. They may explain some of the unexpected results which right now are mystery.
@@vilimtustanovski1270 Ok, but still I would be interested in to calculate the ratios between the (XMP/EXPO) timings of the kits. That has been the main thing for me.
Would love to see you go back and try this out with a X3D chip as it seems memory speeds have a much smaller impact on performance with them as the L3 cache provides that low latency memory required and picks up a lot of the slack from slower memory kits. Also think it would be good to see you do some longer burn in tests as you said your a fan of Buildzoid, he has pointed out that Intel does not remain stable on the higher memory settings starting around 7000 or so. Finally I've seen some 24g and 48g kits out there that are hitting 8000mt/s which if I understand correctly, due to how memory speeds are tied to the infinity fabric clock, should be much easier to get stable then anything from 6200 up to 8000 so that could be very informative for the consumer as well, especially as we see these speeds becoming more common.
@@haremofprocessors6954 The audience who follow buildzoid would, but most people just hit the BIOS settings default and leave it at that. I can understand why. a lot of it makes little sense to most people.
correct, and this lack of tuning/setup is the reason so many people fall into the ryzen is good trap a tuned intel setup is so far ahead its not even funny
If you set the game to a low resolution, lower settings etc and still only get a few frames extra when the game alreday run with 150+ FPS. Pointless, since more money into the GPU is what matters.
He helped me too, i honestly struggle to understand half of what he says at times, but he has some good tips for boards and settings which can really work wonders.
really good video kitguru thanks. I have still no idea about RAS and CAS, but I use XMP and just hope it all works. usually goes. thankfully. Went over to see buildzoid as I saw you give him a shout out. Went over my head.
I wantto see you do this same video but for music/audio production, since everyone always focuses on gaming pcs rather than single-core-oriented tasks like music production.
My old 7800x3d couldn't post at 6000mhz with Expo guaranteed Qvl listed ram sticks. Through many tests, I concluded it's the CPU problem like the mem controller not the ram sticks. I replaced my CPU with AMD warranty. I heard there are a lot of CPUs with low capacity just above the threshold. For the guys wondering my issues, I listed what I experienced. 1. No post at 6000mhz, but can post lower clocks with lower latencies. 2.Even though it makes to the window, it's unstable like random rebooting and crash. It's very similar to symptoms with badly timed ram. So I ran the computer at the default speed of 4800mhz, but noticed random freezing persists usually after using 2 hours. 3. It fails all the ryzen master cpu performance enhancement. If I click on the apply button, then system tries to reboot, but it always ends up to no post and bios reset. 4. I'm not sure if it's related but the cpu temperatur on the overlay monitor provided by Radeon adrenaline is stuck at the random number and stopped working randomly. If it happens I usually expected crash or freezing would take place. I got the new cpu and now it runs like silk. But the last one month struggling with the bad cpu was really nightmare.
I would have liked to have seen DDR4, say 4000c15 in this line up for the Intel part! Many people are still on DDR4. Not much use comparing without the previous gen.
Thank you for the video! Good content. On my end i just built a new PC with an X670e Mag Tomahawk, 7800x3D and was able to install 64gb (2x 32gb) of 6400 MT at CL 32. Everything is running very smooth, and the infinity fabric clock is 1:1 using the Expo profile. I was worried by others comments that the clock would be affected to 2:1 and the memory would slow down. My RAM kit was XPG Lancer DDR5 RGB
I also just picked up the same kit, running at 6400MT, 2133 Fclk Cpu - 7800x3d Getting 61ns latency on aida 64 memory benchmark best ive got and tested multiple kits
From what I've seen in various tests, the memory seems to only make a worthwhile difference at lower resolutions where you're more likely to be CPU limited. I was also told that CAS latency appears to matter less with DDR5 than DDR4 and 3.
@@lucasrem Yeah, specifically the tests I saw were for DDR5 6000MT sticks with CL30-36-36-96 vs CL36-48-48-96. The difference was minimal, with the biggest gains coming on Intel platforms with higher MT sticks. And even then it wasn't that much.
did a smol upgrade, switched to a MSI Z690 Pro-A Wifi DDR5 mobo from the ddr4, installed G.skill cl32 6400m/t 32gb ddr5 ram, wasnt a major upgrade but did notice a difference in performance :) running a i5-13600k+RTX4080
Not all games relay as heavily on L3 Cache, so in these scenarios faster / lower latency memory is beneficial for the R7 7800X3D. I’m running 2X16GB 6000MT/s CL28 36 28 30 w/ tight subs FCLK 2200. VDD: 1.43v VDDQ/IO: 1.30v VSOC: 1.15v GDM / Power Down / MCR: Disabled. Aida64 Latency: 59.1 NS vs. 68 NS EXPO. Also, at BCLK 105 / LLC: 4 for total stability. Decent boost for single core / modest boost all core. Gaming / general use performance is improved.
i got the 7700 and run at 6000 right now, but i have been running the default at 4800 for a period because of stability issues and it doesn't actually feel too bad, at least in the games that i played at that time. but it is for sure a bit slower.
Intel's Alder Lake chips and similar ones (13th and 14th gen) use Ring Bus design and are monolithic, the IPC is higher and they can communicate better with RAM.
Hi, I’m going to build my own PC with a 7800x3D and I had a question. I am about to buy 2 sticks of Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5 RAM, but from an aesthetic viewpoint, I want them to be white and those are only XMP. The EXPO ones are only available in grey. Can I use XMP memory instead of EXPO? Would I be sacrificing performance or stability?
Not really, you would have to do your voltages abd timmings manually as XMP might not work properly out the gate. But all 2 dimms mobos and every 13/14900K will do 7600Mhz quite easy without breaking a sweat @MGK195
@@alexc5564 "But all 2 dimms mobos and every 13/14900K will do 7600Mhz quite easy without breaking a sweat" buildzoid and basically everyone with experience in memory overclocking will highly disagree with that statement. just running y-cruncher for 30 minutes without errors is already Apex territory. igor's lab has binning results for ~600 CPUs and 7600 was mostly the absolute peak with a few golden samples going beyond that.
Hardware Unboxed's video on DDR5 scaling are way more extensive and a lot more applications are benchmarked. To those who want to know more I recommend you go there. This video tells very little story.
@@saricubra2867 They do. What were you saying? They even took Buildzoid's DDR5 timing to use it as a performance benchmark. Although they do specify the brand, who cares about the brand anyway? The chip inside the RAM are the one that mattered, brand doesn't. as long as it's Hynix A die it'll all perform the same with the same timing & frequency potential.
hello there very informative video... but i would like to know , did you use xmp or manual overclocking for the intel cpu and higer frequncy ram kits....
Typo in at least one chart, which lists the 7000 set as being CL40, vs. the (apparent) real figure of CL30. We must assume that the secondary/tertiary timings of the 6000 kit are considerably better, since that kit does better on the gaming front. (It should be noted however that the avg frame rate variations were quite likely within variance, and only the 1% figures were noticeably different - and even _those_ may be within the variance.)
Well spotted - the text on the 7-Zip chart says CL40 for Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5-7000 where the correct figure (as per the other charts) is CL34. And yes, agreed, it's the lows rather than the averages that make the most interesting reading. That DDR5-7000 kit is here www.corsair.com/eu/en/p/memory/cmt32gx5m2x7000c34/dominator-platinum-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-dram-7000mhz-c34-memory-kit-black-cmt32gx5m2x7000c34
The CPU and Motherboard specifications will lead you to the right type of memory sticks. After doing some research I found out my setup needed 2x16 instead of 2x32. Low-end top performance instead of high-end low preference. Those little differences will get your system to POST or brick
Good sir I'm thinking of buying a i9 14900k on a Asus Dark Hero. What memories would you recommend? I'm thinking of the "TeamGroup T-Force Xtreem 48GB DDR5 ODECC CL38 8000MHz" ones.
why is the FPS practically no difference between 1080p and 2k res during gaming? that makes no sense... was it fps capped or? Vsync? or other reason???
Thank you so much for making this video, i am gathering parts for a new high end build for gamin and have been racking my brain over lower Cl or higher M/T for DDR5 gaming.
When I was searching for an ideal kit on pcpartpicker, I started by setting the minimum speed to the maximum that my processor was rated stable for (5200mt for my 7600x), then the lowest latency within that range (28cl), then the highest speed at that latency (5600mt at the time; I believe there are 6000 cl28 kits available now). Worked out pretty well.
@@Pyreleafcas latency is in clock cycles remember. 5600 cl28 is the exact same cas latency as 6000 cl30. As long as that CL figure is half of the first 2 digits of the memory's MT/s, they're the same. Ie 6400 would be cl32, 7200 cl36 etc.
@@Frozoken not *exactly* the same; if memory (heh) serves, latency can't really be adjusted up and down in the same way as speed. When I still used my old ddr5-6000 cl40 kit before a recent upgrade, I couldn't run it at the full 6000mt on my 7600x, so I had to settle for 5600mt, and I think the cl stayed at either 40 or dropped slightly to 38, so my fwl actually increased. In other words, a 5600 cl28 kit may have the same fwl as a 7200 cl36, but if you can't use the full 7200mt, you're still stuck with the higher cl36.
Maybe i didnt hear but what motherboard was this tested on intel and am5. How can 13ns be equivalent to 10ns ram. I get 6000cl30 will be close to 7000cl34 within quarter Ns. But how can a 13ns kit keep on par with a 9.7ns kit. Something else is going on. Or am i somehow not understanding latancy over mts.
The AMD motherboard is Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master with BIOS F20a and AGESA 1.1.0.1 while Intel was used on Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master X with BIOS F5g Leo
Very useful video. I want to add the importance of looking at native RAM speed rather than overclocked especially not everyone is looking to overclock. I've seen some good memory sticks by GSkill, Team Group and Lexar where they offer native 5600 MHz speed with low CL values. This is much better approach than the remaining sticks sold with 4800 speed native and only promise higher speeds under the condition that the use will overclock.
Curious as to the synthetic test selection, none of those cares any memory bandwidth, latency, or timing. Or in AIDA’s case, comparing apples to oranges
I get scared with the advanced settings for memory in the bios. Feels safer just to leave everything at "auto". An unstable system is just a nightmare.
XMP is useful for all that. I dont tinker much with bios settings anymore, I used to play with RAS and CAS all the time. now I just leave it with the settings in the BIOS. sad, but true.
The hours spent tweaking a system for the odd percent - if you're lucky - is time better spent working to buy better components in the first place imho. But then, some people like playing around in the BIOS - and that's fine - whatever floats your boat !
Thanks for that nice refresher and some benchmarks. I usually go with Corsair for memory as I have never had a problem with it. Looking to get a new system by the end of the year (2024) and to be honest that 5600 for intel may be the sweet spot for cost and performance.
If your total RAM is under 128g, you want to use a set (2) identical RAM memory sticks because using four will cut your mhz... For example, if you want 64g RAM, you want to use two identical 32g sticks, not four 16g identical sticks... You will see a noticable difference by trying it both ways... 💥
I'm looking at setting up an i7-10700 system as a gaming system and gettin a new GPU for it but I was wondering if I should upgrade the motherboard and CPU as well. Modern CPUs seem to take up so much power and I'd probably have to upgrade the PSU (550 watts) as well which means that this would be an expensive project. Updating the MB would also mean replacing the RAM as I think that I have DDR4-2666 which is probably obsolete now. I originally set up the system to run cool and quiet and it does do that but overall performance is quite far behind Gen 12, 13, 14 Intel chips. Great video showing performance differences between various speeds. I have too many choices now to look at.
Your testing shows that the 5600 has more aggressive timings pushing it to out perform the 6000 and 7000. But you never compare the timing of the separate kits of memory.
That’s not why AMD systems can now support higher speeds, there was an agesa update from AMD that significantly expanded memory compatibility on AM5 … you will also need to switch on high speed or low latency mode in bios. Also, the Z790 refreshed motherboards from all manufacturers have QVL’s that include blatant lies … none of those 4-dimm motherboards can run 8000+ stable. You need to update your bios on your AMD motherboards and update the chipset drivers … the higher speed memory will then work.
I've always held that you're usually best off picking a decent memory manufacturer, then buying one step up from their most budget offering. You're usually paying another $5-10 and getting memory that will be 'fast enough' in the vast majority of cases, without wasting hideous amounts of money on DDR-8000 that would be far better put towards a better GPU, CPU, cooling, or almost anything else.
I appreciate the hard work as I’m sure the benchmarking took forever, but a lot of this data is useless unfortunately and certainly not definitive by any means. Testing different speeds with RAM timings all over the place makes no sense for buyers/viewers. For example you can get a 5600MHz *CL28* 16x2 kit for $103 on Newegg. Yet you’re testing a 5600MHz CL36, which for a 16x2 kit is $88 on Newegg. That latency makes a massive difference on the AMD side of things (lesser so for Intel) as seen on LTT’s and Hardware Unboxed’s video. The extra $15 is well worth it and matches the more expensive 6000MHz CL30 kits. Really the only definitive and ultimately useful test would be testing 16GB x 2 kits (since it’ll be the most common setup for buyers) and picking the lowest latency kit at every speed. I realize this would be an expensive endeavor, you’re probably looking at $2000+ in memory alone, let alone the sheer man hours. Though you could skip basically anything below 5600MHz as both Intel and Ryzen performance has a significant drop off regardless of latency at anything below 5600MHz
I Purchased Ryzen 7 7800x3d and pre ordered a Corsair Dominator Platinum 6200 Mhz CL36 to upgrade my Am4 system to Am5. but lately I discovered that the Ram I bought was for Intel, SKU: cmt32gx5m2x6200c36w Question is: Will it work? or what will happen if I combine these two? I hope to get answers from you! Big Thanks!
Hi. I´m building a "white PC". I chose the Ryzen7 7800X3D processor and the Asus ROG Strix B650E-A Gaming WiFi Motherboard. I Found the DDR5 Corsair Dominator Titanium in white, but unfortunatly only XMP. I could by the expo model but they only exist in grey. What would happen if i run the White XMP version on my AM5 setup? Will it still be compatible or will i run into some issues?
4x8gb/2x16gb@3200 ddr4 is already worth money for performance since 3200 ddr4 still can be OC to higher value. but its all depends on CPU which DDR it support like am5 ryzen it only support ddr5.
4200mhz c14 gear1 dual rank ddr4 gained me 20-30% fps in games that are hard on memory. Games like WZ, 2042, pubg. Maybe in a couple years there will be some reasonable priced mobo's and some ddr5 kits(best binned) that can push 8000+mhz c30ish speeds
Not really until 8700G, games are loaded into gpu's gddr6 That's why I built another am4 pc for a 6700xt last month, am5 is only worth it for productivity and the incoming apus for budget/low power gaming
@@haremofprocessors6954 the timings do much more than ram speed, and endgame ddr4 has great latency. This review is basically useless tbh, it doesn't compare anything interesting.
Should I get Corsair vengeance 6000mhz CL36 or G Skill flare X / adata / other brand kits with 6000 mhz but CL30 ? Here they retail for pretty much the same ( 15 dollar difference at most ) I heard anything over 6000 mhz and under cl32 is Hynix and it’s supposed to be better but here’s the catch In my country only corsair has a reputable RMA service meanwhile other brands except Kingston ( not available above 5600 CL4 ) are worse
@@sravans149 sorry for the late reply, I hope it is not too late. It is not an easy answer. Actually the CAS latency does not matter much (both on Intel and AMD), but the others (tRCD, tRP, tRAS, the 3 numbers you can find usually after the CAS) do (more on AMD than on Intel). And in DDR4 the tRP was what really indicated which chip was in the kit (whether it was Samsung B-die or not). Let's assume it has not changed in AM5. Corsair, for example, sells 6000 MT/s Vengeance kits at CL30 (30-36-36-76) and CL36 (36-36-36-76), but the tRCD, tRP, tRAS are the same of those as you can see. Based on these specs the real life performance of the 2 kits have to be very close thus you may not have to spend extra on the CL30 kit. G.Skill also sells 6000 MT/s kits, for example one at CL30 (30-38-38-96) and another at CL 36 (36-36-36-96). Based on these specs the CL 36 kit looks to be the better choice. I do not know if there is any difference between the Flare X and Trident Z5 Neo with the same specs (for example 30-38-38-96) except the heat spreader. And there is one more twist in case of AMD: the secondary and tertiary timings are also having more impact on performance than on Intel. But the manufacturers do not publish those timings, you can only find them on the internet. For example HArdware Unboxed made a video about AM5 RAM scaling and in that video he used various kits. The Trident Z5 Neo 30-38-38-96 is the safest bet from that. Maybe you can risk the cheaper Flare X with the same specs. I assume your issue with Corsair is their usually higher price.
@@janoskiss8040 I guess im gonna get the G skill kit since Corsair only sells CL36 in my country for reasonable prices or I’d have to spend 40-50% more to get the platinum RAM and I’m better off saving a bit of money than choose a RAM just for the RMA factor
I'm a little disappointed at your CPU choices, to be honest. Would loved to have seen the performance numbers for the highest end CPUs, the 7800X3D and 7950X as well as the 14900K. Or did you test this and the performance uplift percentages are roughly the same?
@@POVwithRCI tested the 13900ks (14900k) with 6000 and 8000 (video & benchmarks are posted on my channel). Currently testing the 7800x3d with 6000 and 8000 too … very different behavior compared with intel.
People who buy i9s for gaming knowing they're pointless over the i7 are the same people to buy the most expensive ram kit they see. Why would you need a benchmark
Bcos I plan to upgrade my aging Intel rig I have been searching for info but it is damn tough to find smthg useful about mem scaling. I never cared about zip/unzip performance. I am not a file compressing enthusiast, I do not zip or unzip files often enough. And what if it takes 5 seconds or whatever more? Per Buildzoid the AIDA64 mem bandwidth benchmark is quite useless. It measures ideal scenario when the data is perfectly sequentially arranged in the mem which never happens in real life. The gaming benchmark section raises more questions for me than it answers. First, only 2 games are tested which is very little sample data. Then I can see that in both games the red team delivers FPS below the blue one and AMD scales with mem speed but Intel does not. For me what it means that AMD could not hit the engine limitation or cap (contrary to the conclusion of the guy). Ok, but the FPSs are practically equal at the same settings at both 1080p and 1440p which is normally an indication of engine limit. Therefore I can see a contradiction here on the AMD side and I am not able to make sense of it. Additionally in FC6 the AMD performs at 1080p a tiny bit worse than at 1440p (and Intel too on the 1% lows). Even if the differences are only a few FPSs it still bothers me that something might be wrong here. Or this is just how FC6 is, right? But other games? (Afaicr Doom Eternal scales with bandwidth, for example.) Or future games? I simply cannot trust that this material puts me into the right direction. I am open to go either way, blue or red and can afford to spend on mem reasonably (up to ~6400 MHz). I plan to use the XMP/EXPO profile, no manual tweaking of the timings. On AMD’s side the ~10% gain showed here by faster but more expensive mem is acceptable for me. But this guy suggests that I should not care about the mem. Is that really a good advice? (Especially based on a 2 game size sample?) Any thought?
If you decide to go to AMD and you are ok with the price then I think a decent 6000 kit is good, but pay attention to buy something with tighter timings because that also matters more on AMD. You are not exactly right about that Intel does not scale with memory speed. The 5200 kit (which probably has the worst timings as well) is slightly slower in all 4 test scenarios than the others. So I think what it means is that the 5200 is not hitting the engine limit, but going upward it happens soon. Generally amongst the PC testers results within 2-3% range are deemed to be equal due to measurement tolerance. Therefore I consider the ranking of Intel results in these charts above 5200 to be meaningless, and I think you certainly cannot expect the 5600 CL36 kit to perform better than the 6000 CL30 or 7000 CL34 if the game is not engine limited. Another weird thing what I can see here is that usually at 1080p the FPS numbers are 20-30% higher than at 1440p. If we accept the 1440p data to be correct then on both Intel and AMD the 5200 kit should produce higher FPS at 1080p than at 1440p and hit the limit. But that’s not what we can see thus I believe that all the presented data as 1080p are actually 1440p. Some kind of mistake must have happened. Unfortunately I do not know as much about Intel as about AMD, so instead of saying anything I would say try to do further research on the subject. I hope so this piece can still help.
DDR4 CL16 3200 intel and CL18 3600 AMD were the sweet spots & it looks like its the same story with DDR5 CL 30 6000 / CL 32 6400(both are 10ns latency). These options for me have always been a go to, good price, a nice step up in performance, and no stability issues.
Leo - you’re an absolute boss man. Happy new year. I have a ryzen 7600. Am I understanding this correctly. A 13600k is actually better for gaming with the right memory? I bought 6000 CL30, but I looks like intel actually benefits more from gaming.
looks like it could be yes if you get the best high end memory for it. AMD seem hindered a bit by memory at times. always a lot more complicated with AMD boards and settings. Most intel boards ive had you just hit XMP and it 'works'. Then again im no expert and could just be an idiot who doesnt know how AMD works (been a while since I used AMD boards)
@@canarychrome7012 I just bought the 7600 and literally just updated the bios and clicked enable EXPO. Worked fine. Also it’s so stupidly fast that it won’t bottle neck my GPU for a while. I’m more just curious to see intel edging the lead with the 13600k
I love the Intel guy trying not to loose his job as he talks about the guy who repeatedly has said Intels latest memory controllers are sh!t and he doesn't even want to try overclocking on Intel anymore until they correct it. I'm sure they are both equally frustrated by this, he just can't say that in a interview lol.
@@philipjfry628 yeah, the intel guy looked very relaxed, the AMD guy was definitely in a more PR style delivery, but I am sure they know what not to talk about. I wonder if Kitguru had to cut parts of the dialogue under an NDA and get approval before this went live.
i could not tell difference, i tried different speeds and did not notice while playing games. current speed is DDR4 3200mhz that's maximum supported speed by processor
those numbers does not really make any sense... I clearly see a difference in perf between running 6000c30 vs at 6800 with my 7200c34kit and an 6900xt card at 1080p low, but yeah in the second game farcry we see the perf difference, but still only two games. clearly just a pr segment.
It depends.. Some CPU run faster with faster memory.. But that only matters if the CPU is the rate limiting factor.. L2Cache is probably the most important factor in CPU speed. That is, enough L2 Cache.
![[#2024MAMA] ROSÉ (로제), Bruno Mars - APT. | Mnet 241122 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/dgGqD28J6aQ/mqdefault.jpg)
not many channels could get AMD and Intel into interviews inside a video - that was excellent.
Amazing
Very interesting seeing the contrasting approaches intel and amd are taking towards this niche.
I think both Intel and AMD reps in this were very good. I mean they never spill the beans on upcoming products, but they both know their own platforms and clearly were trying to be as open as they were allowed. its not easy !
Only missing Nvidia and ARM.
that was REALLY educational Leo, some great results, had no idea.
It really is not surprising to have supposedly slower kits beating faster ones because sadly all we see from the kit is the primaries but other settings can increase much more performance. For example, I can easily beat a 6400 c32 kit that is using xmp with a tuned 6000 kit.
I got a 6400 kit and turned it down to 5600 with super tight timings of CL28
It would be so much easier to compare memory latency if it were advertised in nanoseconds rather than cycles, so we could directly compare latency, independent of the speed we ran the memory at. Unfortunately, absolute CAS latency hasn't improved since the earliest days of DDR, and that doesn't fit the "newer is always better" narrative beloved of the industry.
Ordering the reviewed kits by absolute CAS latency, adding in some legacy specs for comparison we get:
CL16 @ 4266 = 7.5ns DDR4-4266
CL9 @ 2400 = 7.5ns DDR3-2400
CL4 @ 1066 = 7.5ns DDR2-1066
CL34 @ 7000 = 9.7ns DDR5-7000 XMP £195 Dominator Platinum RGB 32GB (2x16GB)
CL30 @ 6000 = 10ns DDR5-6000 EXPO £310 Dominator Titanium First Edition 64GB (2x32GB)
CL2 @ 400 = 10ns DDR-400
CL40 @ 6800 = 11.76ns DDR5-6800 XMP £130 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB)
CL36 @ 5600 = 12.86ns DDR5-5600 XMP £220 Vengeance RGB White 64GB (2x32GB)
CL38 @ 5200 = 14.62ns DDR5-5200 XMP £105 Vengeance 32GB (2x16GB)
CL2 @ 100 = 20ns PC100
DDR5-6000 would need to be down at CL23 to get close to CL16@4266.
Why does the Vengeance RGB (12.86ns) do so well in so many tests? That would require more testing, but it wouldn't be the first time that CPU/cache issues resulted in 'slower' speeds being 'faster'.
It would certainly be interesting to see what running the Dominator sticks with CL28 @ 5600 (10ns) did to the benchmark results. This may be one of those situations where lower latency at a lower MT/s works better overall than higher latency at a higher bandwidth.
Yeah, I would have liked the first word latency to have been included in the video, but nice of you to do the work here, so I don't have to calculate it myself.
Once all of the exponents cancel @@TigonIII, the calculations are quite simple. For example 1/5.6*2*36=12.86ns for CL36 @ 5.6GT/s DDR.
Fascinating thanks for typing all that out
They should include that on the packaging...@@markbooth3066
I picked up a couple kits of GSkill CL14@4000 = 7.0ns last year, Waiting for the 14900ks to come out and going to pair them together for a low latency system
You need to do some testing with command rate and number of ranks vs locked memory timings then optimized memory clock speeds to what each setup (1T/2T, 1Rx8*2, 2Rx2*2, 2Rx8*4) can max out at. That would show much cleaner why some kits will perform better than others.
When I was selecting memory for my 7700x I just cheated and used the exact same kit they supplied to the reviewers. No way they would give anything but the most optimal kit for that. That turned out to be CL30 6000, which matches up nicely with your charts for AMD.😲
I would be interested to see how the RAM effects 3d cache chips, my guess is that it will have little/no difference on performance.
yeah thats the way to buy memory, use what they send reviewers, likely the ideal kit isnt it.
Or just read a review...
I bought some G Skill Trident Z5 6000 CL30 for my 7600x rig, and it’s been great so far. I don’t get into the nitty gritty of trying to OC RAM. As long as it’s running at EXPO speeds, I’m happy
16:33 I believe the test results of Ryzen 7700X are due to the halved RAM write speed in single chiplet models of Ryzen.
With all due respect to you Leo, I have a sneaking suspicion motherboard sets loose any secondary and tertiary timings that don't fit into XMP when going for higher frequencies. If so, then it might be taking a look if those were at least minimized if you can't keep the same values which are set at 5600MT/s. Also I assume it might be worth finding other voltage sweetspots, I doubt auto settings allow for training tight values at higher speeds. Love the channel, don't mind me suspecting your testing methodology, those ARE realiatic scenarios for plug n play type of people, but for anyone who has knowledge to manually set overclocks and timings I think it lacks in info. Would love to see either BIOS inputs or at least zentimings and asrock timing software (or whatever is used on intel to check timings) screenshots.
I just wonder how many people are interested. Then again why not try I guess.
I assume he used the XMP/EXPO profiles thus the primary, secondary and tertiary timings have been set that way. I have no problem with that (manually set overclocks are not for ordinary users), but since those XMP/EXPO timings can be still not in line proportionally to one another, I agree that he should have displayed them. They may explain some of the unexpected results which right now are mystery.
@@sandornyemcsok4168 not all timings fit into XMP and those are set by the mobo, usually within JEDEC spec.
@@vilimtustanovski1270
Ok, but still I would be interested in to calculate the ratios between the (XMP/EXPO) timings of the kits. That has been the main thing for me.
I bought CORSAIR VENGEANCE DDR5 RAM 96GB (2x48GB) 6400MHz CL32 Intel XMP and its runs perfect for my Asus Z790 Hero motherboard in XMP profile 2.
Would love to see you go back and try this out with a X3D chip as it seems memory speeds have a much smaller impact on performance with them as the L3 cache provides that low latency memory required and picks up a lot of the slack from slower memory kits. Also think it would be good to see you do some longer burn in tests as you said your a fan of Buildzoid, he has pointed out that Intel does not remain stable on the higher memory settings starting around 7000 or so. Finally I've seen some 24g and 48g kits out there that are hitting 8000mt/s which if I understand correctly, due to how memory speeds are tied to the infinity fabric clock, should be much easier to get stable then anything from 6200 up to 8000 so that could be very informative for the consumer as well, especially as we see these speeds becoming more common.
Your sausage is indeed very long.
@@johnerikson2443 Thanks!!! It's a nickname I got while working in the Ironworkers Union as a Welder, it's a play on my last name Alcock.
Good idea hope they get time to follow up.
id like a follow up as well, gets my vote. Leo are you there?
ddr5 6000 would be ok or best to go with in my 7800x3d build?
or should go faster?
I think it's more telling that XMP and EXPO settings aren't good enough. You have to tune the timings to see a significant uplift.
Wonder how many would know how to do that however
@@haremofprocessors6954 The audience who follow buildzoid would, but most people just hit the BIOS settings default and leave it at that. I can understand why. a lot of it makes little sense to most people.
correct, and this lack of tuning/setup is the reason so many people fall into the ryzen is good trap
a tuned intel setup is so far ahead its not even funny
nice to see on the latest systems that the memory does play a bit of a gain if you get the right stuff.
And how you can waste a system using rubbish ram.
If you set the game to a low resolution, lower settings etc and still only get a few frames extra when the game alreday run with 150+ FPS. Pointless, since more money into the GPU is what matters.
Thanks for all the great testing. Hope you and the whole team have a great NYE and a fantastic 2024.
You too man. Nice to see some positivity
Happy New year guys
Great video. And love Buildzoid. Wouldn't have been able to get my 4 DIMMs running stably at XMP speed without his guides.
Same
Nice to see Leo complimenting him. He doesn’t get enough praise.
Always good to see a shout out for buildzoid.
He helped me too, i honestly struggle to understand half of what he says at times, but he has some good tips for boards and settings which can really work wonders.
Really thorough and great video here. Thanks for taking the time 🙏
really good video kitguru thanks. I have still no idea about RAS and CAS, but I use XMP and just hope it all works. usually goes. thankfully. Went over to see buildzoid as I saw you give him a shout out. Went over my head.
I wantto see you do this same video but for music/audio production, since everyone always focuses on gaming pcs rather than single-core-oriented tasks like music production.
My old 7800x3d couldn't post at 6000mhz with Expo guaranteed Qvl listed ram sticks. Through many tests, I concluded it's the CPU problem like the mem controller not the ram sticks. I replaced my CPU with AMD warranty. I heard there are a lot of CPUs with low capacity just above the threshold. For the guys wondering my issues, I listed what I experienced.
1. No post at 6000mhz, but can post lower clocks with lower latencies.
2.Even though it makes to the window, it's unstable like random rebooting and crash. It's very similar to symptoms with badly timed ram. So I ran the computer at the default speed of 4800mhz, but noticed random freezing persists usually after using 2 hours.
3. It fails all the ryzen master cpu performance enhancement. If I click on the apply button, then system tries to reboot, but it always ends up to no post and bios reset.
4. I'm not sure if it's related but the cpu temperatur on the overlay monitor provided by Radeon adrenaline is stuck at the random number and stopped working randomly. If it happens I usually expected crash or freezing would take place.
I got the new cpu and now it runs like silk. But the last one month struggling with the bad cpu was really nightmare.
I would have liked to have seen DDR4, say 4000c15 in this line up for the Intel part! Many people are still on DDR4.
Not much use comparing without the previous gen.
You’ll only start to see them trade blows at 6000+ kits. Anything less than 6000 💀
Thank you for the video! Good content. On my end i just built a new PC with an X670e Mag Tomahawk, 7800x3D and was able to install 64gb (2x 32gb) of 6400 MT at CL 32. Everything is running very smooth, and the infinity fabric clock is 1:1 using the Expo profile. I was worried by others comments that the clock would be affected to 2:1 and the memory would slow down. My RAM kit was XPG Lancer DDR5 RGB
I also just picked up the same kit, running at 6400MT, 2133 Fclk
Cpu - 7800x3d
Getting 61ns latency on aida 64 memory benchmark best ive got and tested multiple kits
Should add the memory profile used is the " Amd tweaked " this makes a huge difference over expo 1 and expo 2 profiles
Thats some result you got man. incredible
From what I've seen in various tests, the memory seems to only make a worthwhile difference at lower resolutions where you're more likely to be CPU limited. I was also told that CAS latency appears to matter less with DDR5 than DDR4 and 3.
You got any benefits , Custom CAS timing on DDR 5 ? Faster than XMP ?
Need more frames, RTX 4090, faster DDR works !
@@lucasrem Yeah, specifically the tests I saw were for DDR5 6000MT sticks with CL30-36-36-96 vs CL36-48-48-96. The difference was minimal, with the biggest gains coming on Intel platforms with higher MT sticks. And even then it wasn't that much.
@@lucasremcheckout buildzoids custom ram timings, you'll get like +10% fps in frame time consistently when cpu bottlenecked vs xmp.
did a smol upgrade, switched to a MSI Z690 Pro-A Wifi DDR5 mobo from the ddr4, installed G.skill cl32 6400m/t 32gb ddr5 ram, wasnt a major upgrade but did notice a difference in performance :) running a i5-13600k+RTX4080
Not all games relay as heavily on L3 Cache, so in these scenarios faster / lower latency memory is beneficial for the R7 7800X3D.
I’m running 2X16GB 6000MT/s CL28 36 28 30 w/ tight subs FCLK 2200.
VDD: 1.43v VDDQ/IO: 1.30v VSOC: 1.15v
GDM / Power Down / MCR: Disabled.
Aida64 Latency: 59.1 NS vs. 68 NS EXPO.
Also, at BCLK 105 / LLC: 4 for total stability. Decent boost for single core / modest boost all core.
Gaming / general use performance is improved.
I just ordered some 2x24gb 6000mt/s cl30 m-die, I can't wait to to start overclocking!
one of your best videos this year leo, good way to end 2023, and hope 2024 isnt another 2023.
I like Leo's approach to things - calm, considered and *no* hysteronics - maybe it's just a Brit thing !
I agree
Happy New Year to you Leo and your team. Wish you all the best for 2024!
i got the 7700 and run at 6000 right now, but i have been running the default at 4800 for a period because of stability issues and it doesn't actually feel too bad, at least in the games that i played at that time. but it is for sure a bit slower.
Use latest BIOS, its fixed RAM stability
Interesting results with gaming it really looks like Ryzen benefits from faster ram while Intel sort of tops out.
It's the same for DDR4. AMD's core design seems a lot more sensitive to memory speeds.
Yeah it’s an interesting video. Some results are not what i would expect
Intel's Alder Lake chips and similar ones (13th and 14th gen) use Ring Bus design and are monolithic, the IPC is higher and they can communicate better with RAM.
Learned a lot from this thanks so much Kitguru
i just got my Corsair Dominator platinum white 5600 cl36 today ! im waiting on my msi motherboard to finish my build cant wait !
Hi, I’m going to build my own PC with a 7800x3D and I had a question.
I am about to buy 2 sticks of Corsair Dominator Titanium DDR5 RAM, but from an aesthetic viewpoint, I want them to be white and those are only XMP.
The EXPO ones are only available in grey.
Can I use XMP memory instead of EXPO?
Would I be sacrificing performance or stability?
What matters more is 2 dimm slots rather than 4. That makes the more difference you can easily get 7600mhz/mt with 2 slots
when you have 15 14900k's to handselect.
Not really, you would have to do your voltages abd timmings manually as XMP might not work properly out the gate. But all 2 dimms mobos and every 13/14900K will do 7600Mhz quite easy without breaking a sweat @MGK195
@@alexc5564 "But all 2 dimms mobos and every 13/14900K will do 7600Mhz quite easy without breaking a sweat"
buildzoid and basically everyone with experience in memory overclocking will highly disagree with that statement.
just running y-cruncher for 30 minutes without errors is already Apex territory.
igor's lab has binning results for ~600 CPUs and 7600 was mostly the absolute peak with a few golden samples going beyond that.
2 dimm motherboard's will ALWAYS overclock ram better than 4 dimm motherboard's! That's just a fact
@@toonnut1 and nobody ever denied that.
Good article, watched it again, just ordered a new Corsair Veageance kit for my new rig thanks leo
Hardware Unboxed's video on DDR5 scaling are way more extensive and a lot more applications are benchmarked. To those who want to know more I recommend you go there. This video tells very little story.
Hardware Unboxed's video is heavily flawed. They don't list several brands and timings.
@@saricubra2867 They do. What were you saying? They even took Buildzoid's DDR5 timing to use it as a performance benchmark. Although they do specify the brand, who cares about the brand anyway? The chip inside the RAM are the one that mattered, brand doesn't. as long as it's Hynix A die it'll all perform the same with the same timing & frequency potential.
Absolutely fantastic video, glad I found you/this. Surprised you aren't bigger, happily subscribed! :D
Welcome aboard!
hello there very informative video... but i would like to know , did you use xmp or manual overclocking for the intel cpu and higer frequncy ram kits....
Typo in at least one chart, which lists the 7000 set as being CL40, vs. the (apparent) real figure of CL30.
We must assume that the secondary/tertiary timings of the 6000 kit are considerably better, since that kit does better on the gaming front. (It should be noted however that the avg frame rate variations were quite likely within variance, and only the 1% figures were noticeably different - and even _those_ may be within the variance.)
Well spotted - the text on the 7-Zip chart says CL40 for Dominator Platinum RGB DDR5-7000 where the correct figure (as per the other charts) is CL34. And yes, agreed, it's the lows rather than the averages that make the most interesting reading. That DDR5-7000 kit is here
www.corsair.com/eu/en/p/memory/cmt32gx5m2x7000c34/dominator-platinum-rgb-32gb-2x16gb-ddr5-dram-7000mhz-c34-memory-kit-black-cmt32gx5m2x7000c34
The CPU and Motherboard specifications will lead you to the right type of memory sticks. After doing some research I found out my setup needed 2x16 instead of 2x32. Low-end top performance instead of high-end low preference. Those little differences will get your system to POST or brick
Good sir I'm thinking of buying a i9 14900k on a Asus Dark Hero. What memories would you recommend? I'm thinking of the "TeamGroup T-Force Xtreem 48GB DDR5 ODECC CL38 8000MHz" ones.
why is the FPS practically no difference between 1080p and 2k res during gaming? that makes no sense...
was it fps capped or? Vsync? or other reason???
Thank you so much for making this video, i am gathering parts for a new high end build for gamin and have been racking my brain over lower Cl or higher M/T for DDR5 gaming.
When I was searching for an ideal kit on pcpartpicker, I started by setting the minimum speed to the maximum that my processor was rated stable for (5200mt for my 7600x), then the lowest latency within that range (28cl), then the highest speed at that latency (5600mt at the time; I believe there are 6000 cl28 kits available now). Worked out pretty well.
Good strategy 👍🏻
What parts did you go for man ?
@@Pyreleafcas latency is in clock cycles remember. 5600 cl28 is the exact same cas latency as 6000 cl30. As long as that CL figure is half of the first 2 digits of the memory's MT/s, they're the same. Ie 6400 would be cl32, 7200 cl36 etc.
@@Frozoken not *exactly* the same; if memory (heh) serves, latency can't really be adjusted up and down in the same way as speed. When I still used my old ddr5-6000 cl40 kit before a recent upgrade, I couldn't run it at the full 6000mt on my 7600x, so I had to settle for 5600mt, and I think the cl stayed at either 40 or dropped slightly to 38, so my fwl actually increased.
In other words, a 5600 cl28 kit may have the same fwl as a 7200 cl36, but if you can't use the full 7200mt, you're still stuck with the higher cl36.
Maybe i didnt hear but what motherboard was this tested on intel and am5. How can 13ns be equivalent to 10ns ram. I get 6000cl30 will be close to 7000cl34 within quarter Ns. But how can a 13ns kit keep on par with a 9.7ns kit. Something else is going on. Or am i somehow not understanding latancy over mts.
The AMD motherboard is Gigabyte X670E Aorus Master with BIOS F20a and AGESA 1.1.0.1 while Intel was used on Gigabyte Z790 Aorus Master X with BIOS F5g
Leo
Very useful video. I want to add the importance of looking at native RAM speed rather than overclocked especially not everyone is looking to overclock.
I've seen some good memory sticks by GSkill, Team Group and Lexar where they offer native 5600 MHz speed with low CL values. This is much better approach than the remaining sticks sold with 4800 speed native and only promise higher speeds under the condition that the use will overclock.
Which ram in white rgb for expo 6000 cl30 would you recommend ? Thanks
I had no issues at all running Expo with a 48GB 6600 kit from G Skil on a B650 Aorus board with a 7800x3d
Curious as to the synthetic test selection, none of those cares any memory bandwidth, latency, or timing. Or in AIDA’s case, comparing apples to oranges
On AMD your 6000mhz kit might be running at 1:1/2 ratio. Change it in bios .
Since 6000 and CL30 at top, does it mean lower CL beats higher hz `?
I get scared with the advanced settings for memory in the bios. Feels safer just to leave everything at "auto". An unstable system is just a nightmare.
XMP is useful for all that. I dont tinker much with bios settings anymore, I used to play with RAS and CAS all the time. now I just leave it with the settings in the BIOS. sad, but true.
Especially if any improvements may be only a fraction of a percent after loads of instability and testing just to get the magic numbers!
The hours spent tweaking a system for the odd percent - if you're lucky - is time better spent working to buy better components in the first place imho.
But then, some people like playing around in the BIOS - and that's fine - whatever floats your boat !
Thanks for that nice refresher and some benchmarks. I usually go with Corsair for memory as I have never had a problem with it.
Looking to get a new system by the end of the year (2024) and to be honest that 5600 for intel may be the sweet spot for cost and performance.
Its cool to hate Corsair, but they do make a lot of good hardware too.
Why are the non X3D processors being used for the "gaming" test? 🤔
If your total RAM is under 128g, you want to use a set (2) identical RAM memory sticks because using four will cut your mhz... For example, if you want 64g RAM, you want to use two identical 32g sticks, not four 16g identical sticks... You will see a noticable difference by trying it both ways... 💥
What about Kingston fury renegade 64GB? Are they worth the price tag for high end gaming and AI?
as always great info. thanks and happy new year
I'm looking at setting up an i7-10700 system as a gaming system and gettin a new GPU for it but I was wondering if I should upgrade the motherboard and CPU as well. Modern CPUs seem to take up so much power and I'd probably have to upgrade the PSU (550 watts) as well which means that this would be an expensive project. Updating the MB would also mean replacing the RAM as I think that I have DDR4-2666 which is probably obsolete now. I originally set up the system to run cool and quiet and it does do that but overall performance is quite far behind Gen 12, 13, 14 Intel chips. Great video showing performance differences between various speeds. I have too many choices now to look at.
10700 is basically 2015 Skylake IPC, you should use Alder Lake as the minimum, 40% faster IPC.
Your testing shows that the 5600 has more aggressive timings pushing it to out perform the 6000 and 7000. But you never compare the timing of the separate kits of memory.
That’s not why AMD systems can now support higher speeds, there was an agesa update from AMD that significantly expanded memory compatibility on AM5 … you will also need to switch on high speed or low latency mode in bios. Also, the Z790 refreshed motherboards from all manufacturers have QVL’s that include blatant lies … none of those 4-dimm motherboards can run 8000+ stable.
You need to update your bios on your AMD motherboards and update the chipset drivers … the higher speed memory will then work.
I've always held that you're usually best off picking a decent memory manufacturer, then buying one step up from their most budget offering. You're usually paying another $5-10 and getting memory that will be 'fast enough' in the vast majority of cases, without wasting hideous amounts of money on DDR-8000 that would be far better put towards a better GPU, CPU, cooling, or almost anything else.
Great video Leo and team. Really interesting snippets. Would love to see a follow up later on this in more detail.
I appreciate the hard work as I’m sure the benchmarking took forever, but a lot of this data is useless unfortunately and certainly not definitive by any means. Testing different speeds with RAM timings all over the place makes no sense for buyers/viewers.
For example you can get a 5600MHz *CL28* 16x2 kit for $103 on Newegg. Yet you’re testing a 5600MHz CL36, which for a 16x2 kit is $88 on Newegg. That latency makes a massive difference on the AMD side of things (lesser so for Intel) as seen on LTT’s and Hardware Unboxed’s video. The extra $15 is well worth it and matches the more expensive 6000MHz CL30 kits.
Really the only definitive and ultimately useful test would be testing 16GB x 2 kits (since it’ll be the most common setup for buyers) and picking the lowest latency kit at every speed. I realize this would be an expensive endeavor, you’re probably looking at $2000+ in memory alone, let alone the sheer man hours. Though you could skip basically anything below 5600MHz as both Intel and Ryzen performance has a significant drop off regardless of latency at anything below 5600MHz
Amazing you got Intel and AMD in this video - thats amazing, some good input too from them, not the usual nonsense.
Well, only a bit. A bit of 'Corporate BS' still comes through !
I thought it was good. Sure they have to walk a line but dan at intel definitely seems passionate
I'll stay on 12700K and the $60 ddr4 32gb Corsair LPX 3600 C16 I scored off ebay.
I Purchased Ryzen 7 7800x3d and pre ordered a Corsair Dominator Platinum 6200 Mhz CL36 to upgrade my Am4 system to Am5. but lately I discovered that the Ram I bought was for Intel, SKU: cmt32gx5m2x6200c36w
Question is: Will it work?
or what will happen if I combine these two?
I hope to get answers from you! Big Thanks!
Will be fine …you might struggle with 6200mhz due to memory controller constraints but 6000mhz with tight timings will be fine
Hi. I´m building a "white PC". I chose the Ryzen7 7800X3D processor and the Asus ROG Strix B650E-A Gaming WiFi Motherboard.
I Found the DDR5 Corsair Dominator Titanium in white, but unfortunatly only XMP. I could by the expo model but they only exist in grey.
What would happen if i run the White XMP version on my AM5 setup? Will it still be compatible or will i run into some issues?
How does Kingston memory stack up against Corsair?
Leo, brilliant video, thank you and thanks for all your videos in 2023,. love the channel, keep it real man
How do you check what the default speed is of a memory kit?
The problem I……..as a memory tuner has………is the total lack of information on the sticks. At least tell me what the ic’s are.
Hey quick question can i use the xmp dominator titanium kit on an am5 system?
I have 7600mts stable. I wish i purchased 8000mts now. These new Gigabyte boards are amazing for ram stability.
Does it make a difference to performance if the memory is error correcting or not?
4x8gb/2x16gb@3200 ddr4 is already worth money for performance since 3200 ddr4 still can be OC to higher value. but its all depends on CPU which DDR it support like am5 ryzen it only support ddr5.
The only time I have seen a significant increase honestly? Is with Ryzen G series cpu's and integrated graphics.
4200mhz c14 gear1 dual rank ddr4 gained me 20-30% fps in games that are hard on memory. Games like WZ, 2042, pubg.
Maybe in a couple years there will be some reasonable priced mobo's and some ddr5 kits(best binned) that can push 8000+mhz c30ish speeds
Not really until 8700G, games are loaded into gpu's gddr6
That's why I built another am4 pc for a 6700xt last month, am5 is only worth it for productivity and the incoming apus for budget/low power gaming
looks like the memory helps in some games, in the video.
@@haremofprocessors6954 yeah some interesting results.
@@haremofprocessors6954 the timings do much more than ram speed, and endgame ddr4 has great latency. This review is basically useless tbh, it doesn't compare anything interesting.
This is making me wish I got the 14600k bundle instead of the 7800x3d.
Should I get Corsair vengeance 6000mhz CL36 or G Skill flare X / adata / other brand kits with 6000 mhz but CL30 ?
Here they retail for pretty much the same ( 15 dollar difference at most )
I heard anything over 6000 mhz and under cl32 is Hynix and it’s supposed to be better but here’s the catch
In my country only corsair has a reputable RMA service meanwhile other brands except Kingston ( not available above 5600 CL4 ) are worse
What is your platform? Intel or AMD? And will you just simply set the XMP or EXPO profile or will you tighten the timings manually?
@@janoskiss8040 I’m lookin to get into AM5 with the 7600X
@@sravans149
sorry for the late reply, I hope it is not too late. It is not an easy answer. Actually the CAS latency does not matter much (both on Intel and AMD), but the others (tRCD, tRP, tRAS, the 3 numbers you can find usually after the CAS) do (more on AMD than on Intel).
And in DDR4 the tRP was what really indicated which chip was in the kit (whether it was Samsung B-die or not). Let's assume it has not changed in AM5.
Corsair, for example, sells 6000 MT/s Vengeance kits at CL30 (30-36-36-76) and CL36 (36-36-36-76), but the tRCD, tRP, tRAS are the same of those as you can see. Based on these specs the real life performance of the 2 kits have to be very close thus you may not have to spend extra on the CL30 kit.
G.Skill also sells 6000 MT/s kits, for example one at CL30 (30-38-38-96) and another at CL 36 (36-36-36-96). Based on these specs the CL 36 kit looks to be the better choice. I do not know if there is any difference between the Flare X and Trident Z5 Neo with the same specs (for example 30-38-38-96) except the heat spreader.
And there is one more twist in case of AMD: the secondary and tertiary timings are also having more impact on performance than on Intel. But the manufacturers do not publish those timings, you can only find them on the internet. For example HArdware Unboxed made a video about AM5 RAM scaling and in that video he used various kits. The Trident Z5 Neo 30-38-38-96 is the safest bet from that. Maybe you can risk the cheaper Flare X with the same specs. I assume your issue with Corsair is their usually higher price.
@@janoskiss8040 I guess im gonna get the G skill kit since Corsair only sells CL36 in my country for reasonable prices or I’d have to spend 40-50% more to get the platinum RAM and I’m better off saving a bit of money than choose a RAM just for the RMA factor
I'm a little disappointed at your CPU choices, to be honest. Would loved to have seen the performance numbers for the highest end CPUs, the 7800X3D and 7950X as well as the 14900K. Or did you test this and the performance uplift percentages are roughly the same?
His bios and chipset drivers need to be updated to include the latest agesa update from AMD … then the higher speed kits will work.
Buy them and test them. Let us know!
@@POVwithRCI tested the 13900ks (14900k) with 6000 and 8000 (video & benchmarks are posted on my channel). Currently testing the 7800x3d with 6000 and 8000 too … very different behavior compared with intel.
Bro this is a gaming benchmark why would he mention the 14900k or the 7950x?
People who buy i9s for gaming knowing they're pointless over the i7 are the same people to buy the most expensive ram kit they see. Why would you need a benchmark
Hey could you please do a review of the new Sihoo Doro S100?
Once you hit a wall with memory at 6hz on am5 then latency and timings is the only bottleneck that can improve performance on cpu busy scenarios.
Bcos I plan to upgrade my aging Intel rig I have been searching for info but it is damn tough to find smthg useful about mem scaling. I never cared about zip/unzip performance. I am not a file compressing enthusiast, I do not zip or unzip files often enough. And what if it takes 5 seconds or whatever more? Per Buildzoid the AIDA64 mem bandwidth benchmark is quite useless. It measures ideal scenario when the data is perfectly sequentially arranged in the mem which never happens in real life.
The gaming benchmark section raises more questions for me than it answers. First, only 2 games are tested which is very little sample data. Then I can see that in both games the red team delivers FPS below the blue one and AMD scales with mem speed but Intel does not. For me what it means that AMD could not hit the engine limitation or cap (contrary to the conclusion of the guy). Ok, but the FPSs are practically equal at the same settings at both 1080p and 1440p which is normally an indication of engine limit. Therefore I can see a contradiction here on the AMD side and I am not able to make sense of it. Additionally in FC6 the AMD performs at 1080p a tiny bit worse than at 1440p (and Intel too on the 1% lows). Even if the differences are only a few FPSs it still bothers me that something might be wrong here. Or this is just how FC6 is, right? But other games? (Afaicr Doom Eternal scales with bandwidth, for example.) Or future games?
I simply cannot trust that this material puts me into the right direction. I am open to go either way, blue or red and can afford to spend on mem reasonably (up to ~6400 MHz). I plan to use the XMP/EXPO profile, no manual tweaking of the timings. On AMD’s side the ~10% gain showed here by faster but more expensive mem is acceptable for me. But this guy suggests that I should not care about the mem. Is that really a good advice? (Especially based on a 2 game size sample?) Any thought?
If you decide to go to AMD and you are ok with the price then I think a decent 6000 kit is good, but pay attention to buy something with tighter timings because that also matters more on AMD.
You are not exactly right about that Intel does not scale with memory speed. The 5200 kit (which probably has the worst timings as well) is slightly slower in all 4 test scenarios than the others. So I think what it means is that the 5200 is not hitting the engine limit, but going upward it happens soon. Generally amongst the PC testers results within 2-3% range are deemed to be equal due to measurement tolerance. Therefore I consider the ranking of Intel results in these charts above 5200 to be meaningless, and I think you certainly cannot expect the 5600 CL36 kit to perform better than the 6000 CL30 or 7000 CL34 if the game is not engine limited.
Another weird thing what I can see here is that usually at 1080p the FPS numbers are 20-30% higher than at 1440p. If we accept the 1440p data to be correct then on both Intel and AMD the 5200 kit should produce higher FPS at 1080p than at 1440p and hit the limit. But that’s not what we can see thus I believe that all the presented data as 1080p are actually 1440p. Some kind of mistake must have happened.
Unfortunately I do not know as much about Intel as about AMD, so instead of saying anything I would say try to do further research on the subject.
I hope so this piece can still help.
Interesting though why were no AMD 3D cpu's used in these tests?
I wanna see how ddr4 vs ddr 5 matters
DDR4 CL16 3200 intel and CL18 3600 AMD were the sweet spots & it looks like its the same story with DDR5 CL 30 6000 / CL 32 6400(both are 10ns latency). These options for me have always been a go to, good price, a nice step up in performance, and no stability issues.
2 x Dimms MAX is better, on high XPM profiles.
Need frames, or Office PC ?
There's basically no difference between 3600 and 3200 the biggest difference you're gonna feel on am4 is if you do or do not have 16.
How long before ddr4 memory will be 50% slower than ddr5?
Leo - you’re an absolute boss man. Happy new year.
I have a ryzen 7600. Am I understanding this correctly. A 13600k is actually better for gaming with the right memory?
I bought 6000 CL30, but I looks like intel actually benefits more from gaming.
looks like it could be yes if you get the best high end memory for it. AMD seem hindered a bit by memory at times. always a lot more complicated with AMD boards and settings. Most intel boards ive had you just hit XMP and it 'works'. Then again im no expert and could just be an idiot who doesnt know how AMD works (been a while since I used AMD boards)
@@canarychrome7012 I just bought the 7600 and literally just updated the bios and clicked enable EXPO.
Worked fine. Also it’s so stupidly fast that it won’t bottle neck my GPU for a while. I’m more just curious to see intel edging the lead with the 13600k
Can someone recommend for work statiom what mb and ram with 14900k?
AMD/Intel kits are the same ram. It's just a lookup table. One will work on the other.
14900k 64 gb dominator platinum ddr5 5200 xmp 1 Rog strix z690-f completed intel XTU auto tune R23 score 40234
I love the Intel guy trying not to loose his job as he talks about the guy who repeatedly has said Intels latest memory controllers are sh!t and he doesn't even want to try overclocking on Intel anymore until they correct it. I'm sure they are both equally frustrated by this, he just can't say that in a interview lol.
Worst thing ever trying to say something thats on the record that could seriously affect your home life!
@@philipjfry628 yeah, the intel guy looked very relaxed, the AMD guy was definitely in a more PR style delivery, but I am sure they know what not to talk about. I wonder if Kitguru had to cut parts of the dialogue under an NDA and get approval before this went live.
Yeah the Intel guy seemed like a genuine enthusiast while the AMD guy was a bit of a PR type @@geofftatesmate7748
i could not tell difference, i tried different speeds and did not notice while playing games. current speed is DDR4 3200mhz that's maximum supported speed by processor
I think it all depends on the system you have and the games you play. If your GPU is bottlenecking the performance nothing will make a difference.
So what is the best with 14900k?
those numbers does not really make any sense... I clearly see a difference in perf between running 6000c30 vs at 6800 with my 7200c34kit and an 6900xt card at 1080p low, but yeah in the second game farcry we see the perf difference, but still only two games. clearly just a pr segment.
It depends..
Some CPU run faster with faster memory..
But that only matters if the CPU is the rate limiting factor..
L2Cache is probably the most important factor in CPU speed. That is, enough L2 Cache.
Basically : 6.4K cl30 will be great futureproof memory(Especially for improved ryzen controllers)
yeah I hope so man, fingers crossed.
Leo out there looking like the Final Boss on a Dungeon Crawler from the late 90's. Keep doing your thing you scary SOB.
No DDR4 3600 VS DDR5 5200 ?
i5 14600k can use DDR4 and DDR5 ~
Always write down the values so you can refer to them when you clear cmos or struggles are real
I take it you speak from experience !
I learned a lot, Thank You!
I tested 6000 cl30 vs 6400 cl32 on my 7800x3d & gained upwards of 6% more performance.
In synthetic tests I gained upwards of 12%
You should have notes that RGB does increase Performance for RAM considerably.
These is the same with all Hardware. RGB= More Performance