lol, Intel Arrow Lake is not making them look any better Quick little correction: at 27:25 the undervolt testing I did was on the "Gigabyte Optimized" Profile as it was on the F6 Bios. Both sides are the same, I just labeled it wrong- my b Hope you enjoy this and it can help set the stage for Intel. This has been a monstrous project :)
If you're sitting on a 13900k, looking to upgrade Intel, where do you go? 14900k is maybe 3% faster? 285k (aka 15900k) req the purchase of a new single-use mb, is, at best another 2 or 3%. Surely, they aren't expecting AMD owners on AM4/AM5, to bypass or move off 5800x3d/7800x3d to purchase a lackluster cpu with no platform future. Who is their customer? Why would they pay more for less, with no 'olive branch' extension or commitment from Intel?
Im pretty sure AM4 is the main reason so many people are on AMD platforms. Its amazing how long this platform is lastinng and still provides great perfomance.
its amazing how AM4 somehow still beats even AM5 CPUs. No one really wants to buy ANOTHER motherboard with their CPU. "Future proofing" by buying the highest end everything is actually the worst thing you can do because it leaves no room to move
I absolutely despise the 3000 series from AMD 3700X was a scam AMD was literally giving us a 2015 powered CPU in 2019 I built a rig in 2020 and was already bottlenecked am I was really behind however they seem to make it up with the 5000 series but let's be real here what's the point of upgrading through the same platform if they're just going to give us garbage performance for its time heck we're already seeing that right now with am 5 9000 series Dead on arrival and the x3d variants are garbage as well by the look of the leaks 8% better my butt
🙂 agree, i dont need another computer right now but if i needed one i like the Ryzen 7 lineup and the nicer AM4 ATX Boards, right now the Ryzen 7's for AM4 are alot cheaper than i7s, it wasnt like that a few years ago. I like anything that has 8 cores and 16 threads.
@@Mr.Genesis7800X3D only costs that much because AMD stopped making new ones in prep for 9800X3D, and the ones that were left in stock are currently getting scalped to hell and back. The irony is that it wouldn't cost nearly as much if Intel actually had a decent alternative to offer.
*YEAH*, exactly! The *vision* is the most important - and keeping the promises of 5-year support of the platform! Amazing! I *LOVE* AMD because of this vision. ............ But don't get me wrong, it was NOT without problems. There are *ALWAYS* some problems with a *completely* NEW HW / NEW CPU_architecture........ And what AMD did and released in April of 2017 was a pretty *brave* LEAP OF FAITH !! They *created* a completely NEW architecture from scratch and at the same time they *SHRINKED* their manufacturing_process from their previous_experience 32nm and 40nm SOI ...... to 14nm ! No one has EVER done this before, NEVER! So I am really impressed it went SO WELL ----- I mean: with ONLY RAM_controller INSTABILITY! In the beginning (Ryzen 1800X, HW revision 00) - it was a VERY *painful* experience gaming on it !!! ... I mean - even with the most compatible RAM (G.Skill 3600) running at the BASE frequency of DDR4-2400, it was still UNSTABLE = randomly FREEZING ... a lot - but ONLY when fully loaded... there were only a handful of games capable of FULLY loading this 8-core BEAST..... : CRYSIS III, Metro Exodus and HL: ALYX . These were crashing the most of all - on Ryzen 1800X !!! ... but the newer CPUs - they ALL already have a 100% stable RAM controller. So, no more problems after upgrading the CPU to 5800X and later to 5800X3D ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Reminder that the poll doesn't show that more people have AMD, its that more AMD people respond to these kinds of polls because AMD buyers zealously watch youtube tech channels more than intel buyers.
1:33 props to the employee at microcenter being honest to the consumer. Instead of just letting another uninformed customer clearing their dead inventory. This means that Microcenter staff really treat their customers right and prioritise educating their customer to make the best value choice for their PCs.
How is being and AMD shill "being honest"? You can clearly see in this video that the intel does well in games and does much better in other aplications.
@@metallboy25AMD shill? So all these years, what was it with intel? Also, everyone knows x3d chips are not meant to be good at productivity, they are worse than their non x3d amd chips due to their lower clockspeed.
@@metallboy25 If anyone's a shill, it's you. There's a reason why Intel has been in the news a lot this year, and it wasn't for creating the best CPUs. Intel is power inefficient, their 13th and 14th generation CPUs were unreliable, they produce so much heat, and when they tried to fix it with their new generation, they saw regression in games. Oh, and X3D CPUs aren't for productivity work, something like the 9950X or 7950X are more catered to productivity, where they use less power than Intel for comparable or greater performance. Believe me, I would love for Intel to be trading blows with AMD, same with AMD and Intel trading blows with Nvidia in the GPU market. Competition creates innovation, but Intel still rides on the coattails of it's previous dominance over AMD.
That is the thing though. Is not horrible to go Intel if you are building something cheap but if you want to go big money then you are better with AMD because those i9 suck and need as much power as a nuclear submarine. But if you find a cheap i5 or an older generation cheap i7 is not that horrible for a lower budget built. But generally i think i5 is the best for an Intel system because that CPU will probably be good enough with air-cooling while you might need more for an i7 and if you start buying watercoolers you are ruining the cheap built.
I picked up a z690 DDR5 board and 12700F on release with the plan of updating to the latest CPU the board supported in a couple years time. I'm glad I got 12th gen but now I can't upgrade. Last time I ever buy intel
Or, alternatively, CEP was just trigger happy just for sake of it and you could undervolt further with it disabled. So yeah, give it a shot. Intel runs these CPUs at voltages they needed at launch, not now, when they got way more experience in producing these. Their node also still matures and gets better as the time passes. So Intel CPUs generally undervolt like crazy, just like Zen 4 CPUs do now vs. launch
@@AngryChineseWoman Depends. You should not loose performance by just undervolting alone but when CEP is triggered or logic just isn't stable enough, it will start to stretch the clocks. It will seem that CPU holds frequency just fine but the actual performance will be lowered. If it's CEP triggering, you may disable it and try to UV further. BUT! IIRC turning CEP off also prevents or limits clock stretching so while you may achieve even better results, there is also risk of instability as CPU will crash instead of just stretching the clocks in heavy load scenario you may have not tested for
@@danieljackheck Yes, but the binning stays on the really safe side. You usually can UV by 50 mV. If you use good MB, set VRM correctly, -70-100 mV often is doable. Personally I was able to UV one 12700K by 110 mV and I've seen people doing even more without loosing performance, which is crazy. By sacrificing couple hundred MHz, peaking at around 1.15-1.2V under load is nothing unusual on Alder and Raptor Lake.
You can't say temp. is 14% lower. If temp was +2'C and now it is +1'C, it does not mean it is 2 times or 50% colder. This is common scientific, logical error. And it depends if you use 'C or F - then you would get even lower % differences.
@@Raderade1-pt3om Basically, temps are a made up scale of numbers, unlike regular numbers where 2 is the double of 1. 0'C is not the point in which there is no heat, it's just the point at which water freezes at sea level air pressure, more of a reference point than a zero. Consider 0'C an unknown value instead of 0, like "x", since it is a temperature where heat is still present. In that case, 1'C is x+1'C and 2'C is x+2'C, and you can't assume one of them is the double of another. Measuring temperature by Kelvin is more accurate in that regard, since its 0 point (0 K) actually is the point in which there is 0 heat, also known as Absolute Zero. That's why you see the other comments joking around saying "Lord Kelvin".
Hey Vex I used to hate your video being click baity with stupid thumbnails and kind of low effort bc most of the time you were iust reacting to tech news and others benchmarks. But this video quality and testing is actually really good. And the coverage is all round. Good job dude👍
I've had two 13900Ks die on me, I think the first was the oxidation issue due to the timing but second was definitely due to degradation as the memory controller was failing as well. I downgraded to a 12900KS because it was cheap; 12th gen didn't appear to have the same issues and didn't have to change the board.
been running a 14700k with cpu frame, 7400 DDR5 for a whole year with zero issues and everyone i know on 13700k or 13900k has no problems either. You're just terribly unlucky
I don't know man. It's not that the engineers on the Intel production floor were screaming that there would be quality control issues and management told them to kick rocks. It's not the power efficiency. It's not the reliability. The big problem for me was that Intel gaslit OEM partners and lied to customers for TWO YEARS deflecting blame for a problem that they 100% knew about ahead of time. I won't touch their lazy designs until executive management gets purged. Throwing 50% of your net worth into the trash and setting yourself back 40 years isn't a great way to turn the company around. Why would I reward their stupidity by sending them my cash when I can buy objectively better stuff for less? 12th gen was great but look at the longevity of AM4. 13 looked lazy before we knew about the reliability and performance issues. 14 was a waste of sand. With Ultra they actually managed to look worse. Intel is now the 50% off bargain bin option. Brutal.
Unfortunately they are too big to fail and government is going to bail them out with our tax money so we can compete with China, instead of just firing their failures of executives to save money especially considering they just made massive layoffs to regular workers and if it is really that important to American success maybe it should, idk, be run by people who are looking out for American's best interests rather than personal financial gain. But that's socialism! Of course bailing them out with taxes, that's not socialism, that's just good foreign policy. Ridiculous. If they are going to get bailed out by American taxpayers, the American taxpayers should own it. Same with all those banks that robbed the American people twice. Unfortunately, we have an entire political party controlling at least half the elected positions who are completely opposed to the government doing anything but putting money in their allies pockets while taking it out of the pockets of the American taxpayers. But they say they want small government, except when it comes to using taxpayer money to fix the broken free market. In that case, the free market and capitalism is wrong and needs to be propped up by government, but the government and American people shouldn't control the businesses it is financially supporting with taxpayer funds. Anyone who isn't brainwashed can see how this is completely hypocritical and doesn't make sense, and if something is critical to the public good and success of America as a whole it should be heavily regulated and controlled, especially if American taxpayers are going to be forced to financially invest in it with literally no expectation of receiving anything in return but a passable alternative to foreign produced chips, or having predatory banks and lending that is literally designed to suck as much money from you AND the American government to enrich just a few selfish oxygen thieves. Plus they can feed that money they stole into propaganda and lobbying politicians, and in getting their Republican votes to be worth more through the electoral college and gerrymandering and lax bribery and lobbying and financial investment laws. It's just so ridiculous. Advanced Micro Devices should rebrand to American Made Design or Devices and take over Intel's chip making with government investment if they really believe in the "free market" and care that much to use taxpayer money to prop up an American chip maker. Intel has already went the same route as Boeing, which has left us in the space faring hands solely of a crazy billionaire supervillain basically. Man, America has really gone downhill since the whole "Declaration of Independence," thing.
Sad to see my personal issues with Intel in 2001 are still ongoing for folks today, I don't usually keep track of this anymore because I haven't been in a situation it mattered for years, but they were profoundly bad in dealing with resellers back then while AMD Australia were incredible comms wise in addressing what was happening and not beating about the bush.
Engineers screaming that there would be quality control issues and the management telling them to kick rocks was the main reason for the downfall of two iconic American companies from different industries but with pretty much the same problems now: *Intel* and *Boeing.* The similarities are striking, the comparison unavoidable.
@@goytabr no one knew there'd be any issues with idling wafers. It's likely it's not fully understood. So it's nothing anyone has any right to scream about. The history of our rise is a comedy of errors. That's how it works. We make mistakes and then learn from them. Success is falling down seven times and getting up eight.
Ran an FX 8350, then upgraded to a 6700K on release. The difference was just incredible, even if the 8350 still wasn't "bad" at that time, still true 8 core compared to intel. This made me think the 13th gen intel was still the better choice. Shopped around, and the 13600K was the better value. Cheaper, while providing similar or better performance than AMD's offerings at even 15% higher price. 13600K on a pretty mid tier MOBO, running a Noctua U14s (single tower air cooler) gets great temps, runs quiet and stable. I have had zero issues with it. Then I had to help my neighbour with his amd 5800x that had major overheating issues, even with a 240 AIO or twin tower air cooler. A bios update fixed it. That felt a little sketchy. With that said, if I where to buy a new PC today, I would go 7xxx or 9xxx series AMD. But 13th gen wasn't bad, unless you looked at the i9...
It's literally just group think form the vocal minority. People just want to confirm their biases. There's obvious discussion to be had on legit hardware issues. It's fair to say that the issues with voltage on intel should scare joe normie - but it feels like this area of tech tube is the semi-informed normie. They act like a low level it suits them, and act informed when it suits them. Why someone like Frame chasers can identify the massive voltage spikes on boost cores causing the degradation, while everyone else with a semi large platform faffs about?
Yeah, 14900k without issues here. Kinda annoying to see most tech tubers get on the hate train, it was annoying when they were on the Intel train for a loooong time and now it's annoying they are on the AMD train. Stop getting on trains. (my second system is AMD and i have an AMD laptop, in before any bias comments)
@@Greez1337 Yeah, the voltage degradation is a huge issue for sure, but it's not like Intel isn't replacing chips or addressing it. AMD had a similar problem with their chips a long time ago, and they had to do the same thing. It's just funny hearing people say "Intel is dead!" just because their top chips can't provide 1% performance gains over their rivals when the majority of gamers won't ever notice the difference.
12th gen was really good in my opinion. Got a 12600k for 285$ 3 months after launch, paired it on a cheap Z ddr4 mobo and off to the races. I limited the tdp to 125W and it turned into a really efficient CPU for multithread workloads. Adding UV got me down to 95W, for with a 5% loss in performance but -45% reduction in power draw (-110mV, got lucky there!). Really good gen, but was already pushed a bit too high, then Intel shot themselves in the foot with 13th and 14th gen
yup, i have a dozen 12th gen sku for me and the family, they work fine, they are on discount at Microcenter, you can get an i7K sometimes for less than 200
The number one reason is not the performance in isolation, but the performance per watt. I'm already undervolting and underclocking both my CPU and GPU to survive summers without needing to use my aircon. 100% Agree with everything else but note that overall efficiency is very important for some of us. Appreciate the work you did on this, very well put together and your points came across as very fair, you also addressed just about every strength and weakness of both AMD and Intel CPUs in general, was a joy to listen/watch. With this video you are hitting far beyond your subscriber/view count in quality and just simple constructive reasoning with some great evidence to back up your claims :-) Also loved the unbiased nature of this video and would love to see more of it since fanboying over one company is just about always a bad thing and kills innovation within this space etc.
Yes. This. People that recommend me to prefer Intel must be living near the Arctic. They must be having no idea what it feels like living in a hot and humid tropical area without air conditioning. 150W heater is good enough to make a small bedroom like a sauna, let alone having a 600W PC...
@@AJsWorld (XD) interesting that you went with ntendo switch. I had a 5900hx/3070 Asus G17 laptop that I absolutely adored to bits, though for my needs, one who isn't mobile regarding gaming needs desktop simply made more sense eventually, but I still miss the efficiency I got from it where I would disable my 3070 in older games like SWTOR and might & magic which I was playing at the time and simply play with the onboard vega gpu basically gamming at 50-70watts in total. Anyway in the end overall experience on desktop is simply superior since I'm not dealing with optimus, low vram and some annoying cpu bottlenecking experience anymore.
You AMD fanboys talk about electricity like it was liquid gold, a few watts here a few watts there most of the appliances in your house need many hundreds if not thousands of watts 🤣
Initially I thought you were ragging on the i7 but I'm glad you emphasized its use for video work. Being a video editor myself I've built a monster rig with 80TBs of HDD storage, 128GB DDR4, 3080 ti and the 13700K in the midst of all that has pumped out hour long TED talk style videos (With motion graphics mind you) SEAMLESSLY for the past 18 months!
What's it with video editing? That Al you hear these days, yet there's never anything put and ever does anyone have anything worthwhile to say anyway. What videos are we talking about anyways? Church concessions? I'd rather pluck toenails than video edit
@@itsTyrion Intel also used to be incredibly successful, but if nvidia does the same thing where they hold top status for a few years and stop trying to innovate because they believe amd will not catch up, AMD or someone else will do the same thing to them as AMD did to intel
I just had a technician come and replace my i7 14900F for the 2nd time. Overheated today, called tech support. Now I have to mail in my alienware aurora r16 to be "fixed" by engineers. Cost me 1500$ and all I got was a proprietary space heater. Feel pretty defeated. Can't edit videos. YT is in the toilet.
that sounds more like the terrible alienware case design rearing it's ugly head. I have never seen my 13700k hit above 85C even with a full 250W load, partially cause I got lucky and am stable at -170mV partially cause I have good airflow in my case.
I live in a very hot climate and have an i5-13600k and 7900xt cooling cost me 3 cheap pwm fans and a 100$ AIO (this is plus taxes and vat). I torture it for an hour on cinebench the hottest core doesn't cross 84C. I think you chucklenuts just don't know know how power works.
I personally helped building 2 PCs this year. One with a 12100 and another with a 12400. They both were very good for how little they cost and been running without issues until this day. Ryzen 7000 is good but the mobo cost is atrocious, so it's quite a lot harder to build on a tight budget, at least for now.
When I saw all these reported issues with 13th & 14th gen I thought to myself I guess I'm the luckiest intel user around, I bought my i9-13900K in late 2022 and never had any stability issues lol (Also quicksync and thunderbolt is no joke I do love these features on intel, my i9 paired with the 7900 XTX is like the perfect combo)
You aren't lucky, there is just a ton of bad hype from people that don't own them. I'm pretty happy with my 13900kf as well. It doesn't have quicksync but I don't use it.
Same with my 14700k, no issues and performs very well. Gets better 0.1% lows than the 7800x3d in a lot of the games I play too. As high end systems all get great max FPS, it's the lows that matter to me most.
@@rluker5344 Well, it is a fact that Intel 13 and 14 are generally more prone to degradation than other generations. Several companies are switching to AMD and press outlets like Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, Level1Tech, etc have reported this. Even a gaming company called Alderon Games found that virtually all of their Intel-based machines were failing and affecting the performance of servers in the Path of Titans game (of course, a normal consumer PC is one thing, a server with other servers running 24/7 is quite another). As a techno bro hoping to get a good PC by the early next year to work as a Systems Engineer focused on programming, I am not going to go for Intel because I am really afraid that I will be unlucky and my CPU will be very prone to degradation. Yes, microcode, BIOS and firmware updates should prevent degradation in new CPUs but *I already lost confidence in the brand.*
By the way the 13th and 14th gen i5, namely the 13600K and 14600K, have been insane value. They have what should be i7-level performance, and go head to head with the Ryzen 7 (non-X3D), not Ryzen 5. They also don't heat up as much and have not been reported as suffering the fates of their higher-tier siblings.
This is a great video. Earned mu sub with this one. I bought my 13700K in the Fall of 2022, and I ran it in a gaming PC with e 6800XT, then a 7900XTX, with a 280mm AIO, for an average of about an hour per day. I used the default power settings of my Z670 Taichi motherboard, and I have had zero issues. Still, when all the stability issues hit the fore, I took it out of service. I'm about to install the latest 0x12b microcode and start using it again -- for production. I can do that because I have a 7800X3D system ready to assemble -- for gaming. My next faster CPU for production is a 3900X, or maybe it's my 5700X. The 13700K smokes them both. Here's hoping it doesn't smoke itself as well.
I have a 13600k with a be quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler since April 2023 and haven't had any issues. Also installed the latest microcode bios updated on my Z790 TUF board and still going strong.
Thats the thing a lot of people arent updating the microcode haha, I had a EVGA Kingpin Z690 sitting around I wanted to use so I waited until EVGA released the 0x29 microcode. They released it 2 weeks ago which is when I bought my 13600k. Temps are great, Overclock temps are great, wattage is even good. It's a great cpu to pair with my 3090.
Yeah, I'm at my PC all day so I tend to check for a new BIOS almost every day and I needed to undervolt because I have a Hyper 212 for cooling lol. So I was already preventing problems that I didn't know could happen.
Built your first computer in 2016... I5-2500... Old as Balls... Man that made me feel old. First PC I built was an AMD K6 233Mhz about 9 or 10 years prior :) BTW, you are awesome. Cheers.
2006 on a K6-2? Good lord I was running an Opteron 165, the first available dual core processor to consumers on socket 939. The only time I was ever on the bleeding edge. Good times.
@@toncica Noctua U12A is enough for the 12700K but kinda noisy on Cinebench. If you want a quiet PC on Cinebench, Corsair 5000D Airflow and Noctua D15 as a top notch air cooled combo. The thermal paste is irrelevant (basically MX4). Is the most power efficent and powerful i7 that can be easily aircooled, check motherboard settings. Intel motherboards for some reason use overclocking settings at "stock", my 12700K was running hot at 220 watts and 90°C, dropped the voltage to sane levels (1.2-1.3) and now almost matched Gamer's Nexus 's max power levels and 67°C. Must be a bugged BIOS.
that realy nice ! my 14700k runs pcores 5.7ghz ecores 4.5ghz hitting 37k in cinebench r23 . cpu at 1.35v with offset -0.100v 253watt intel default with 64gb ddr5 cl36 6000mhz on new microcode
What's up with the 7800X3D anyways? Are they discontinuing it all together or just artificially creating panic to make people buy the 9800X3D at launch? I see it's still about $280 on AliExpress but no idea how smart it is to order it from there
Black friday scam again, raising prices so that they can nickel and dime unsuspecting shoppers and during the black friday sales, they're going to do "deep" discounts
This is one of the best videos I've seen this year. You Went in Unbiased, tried everything you could to find anything that would bring Reasoning to any disposition that ONE/(Two) Chips had. Not only was this entertaining; you came through to not only find these facts but articulated your findings for us all to understand in an interesting way.
For "Eco mode" on Intel you can set up a Power limit in a bios to any number of watts. All intel motherboards have this option. Gigabyte has 6 power limit options you just need to enter the same number to all of them.
@@Anderson_LS that is true, although I do agree with Vex that a "eco mode button" would be nice, that could be found in the Easy bios, easily accessible for all users.
I used to rock a Ryzen 1700, and I still can't wrap my head around how a 4 core 12100f is about as fast in multi core workloads and completely obliterates the zen 1 cpu in games.
Probably someone already commented this but the reason older F7 bios (with letters) were removed is because they were beta bios versions. It's a gigabyte weird naming scheme.. So basically F1, F2 etc. is a normal "release" version while F6b, F7f etc. is a beta.
I’ve bought this exact CPU a few months after its launch, in january 2023. My decision prioritized productivity instead of gaming (which I honestly rarely do anymore). So far so good. This thing is snappy and still as blazingly fast as it was back then when I turned on the pc for the first time. Luckily, I didn’t experienced yet any of the issues that some costumers lately have been reporting with intel CPUs. That being said, one should keep in mind that these Raptor Lake do run quite hot under heavier loads, getting way hotter much faster than any other CPU I’ve used before. It does demand a robust cooling system to perform without throttling and to avoid physical damage due to the heat. Personally I’m using a 360mm AIO from Lian Li and it’s been holding itself pretty well at the task. I think changing the original CPU frame is a good idea too, as it may help to prevent the CPU from bending as well as to better dissipate the heat it produces.
The problem with heat isn't just physical damage to the CPU... It also heats up your room to unbearable levels in the summer and your wife divorces you when she sees the electricity bill.
Well, I've tried unplugging power mid gigabyte bios update and it just goes back to the previous bios you where using on its own. Its impossible to brick the board no matter what stage of the bios update you unplug power, early mid or late, same outcome.
You can cool even a 13900k for less than $45 without throttling. 1. Get a $8 contact frame 2. Get a $35 thermalright phantom spirit This setup can compete with aios and can tame that beast.
Even with bloat these i7s are extremely fast and definetly is the core count and clockspeed, the IPC is very high. The 7800X3D is simply sluggish in Windows use, i tried my i7-12700K with E-Cores disabled and it feels sluggish as well.
Do you own a Ryzen 9 PC? A friend has a 5900X and is just as snappy as my 12700K. I just noticed recently how massive the difference cores and threads do make when i switched from a Haswell i7 to a Zen 1 Ryzen 7.
Fun fact, I bought my 11700K for $150 new from Micro Center a few years back because that was the start of when nobody wanted to buy Intel anymore because it wasn't good and, you know, it's only good for the money. It's horribly power inefficient and not very performant compared to the 5800X.
@@robicelus I only got it because of the price I got the combo at. So that would not have been to my benefit. The only cooler I could afford with the money I had left is barely enough with 2 fans maxxed out and attached.
13900K @ 5.9Ghz, 8000Mhz RAM (or secondary profile of 6800Mhz, 1T, Gear 2 mode) as a gaming + workstation PC has been an absolute blast. Oddly enough in Battlefield 2042 I get more FPS than my friend with a 7800X3D. We both have RTX 4080 GPU's.
@@yonghominale8884 Optimize in what way? He's running an undervolt + XMP or whatever the AMD equivalent is. And I won't have any degrading :) Not all games benefit from the 3D cache.
A built a new PC this which is not something i do often like every 5-10 years and upgrade my GPU every 3-5 years depending on if i need to, after a ton of research i picked the i5-13600k and was quite happy with it. The temps under load with a air cooler was kind of crazy but i was happy enough then the intel stability issues started i was running my I5 with a 300mhz overlock via Microsoft's own auto overclock software. The next couple months sucked i ended up having only a few crashes from a VRAM error message and my CPU was sucking down more watts then it was when it was built barely a few months before. So after scrambling around and being generally destressed about the issue i managed to convince amazon to take my CPU and MOBO back for a 20% restocking fee, and then went to a opening day microcenter in Miami and got a 7800x3d for 314 and a b650 MAG tomahawk for 167 i ended up spending a little over 40 bucks to switch to AM5 and consider my self very damn lucky. And when you consider the reviews for Arrow Lake intel has not learned a damn thing. Also personal note from using a i5-13600k and a 7800x3d the temps in use aren't to different for me the idle for the I5 was lower but the in use was higher then the 7800x3d BUT the i5 felt like it was pushing way more head out of my case then then 7800x3d which i guess is the higher power draw? no idea. Bottom line for me was spending half a grand on my cpu/mobo combo and having it start to fail within in a few months is ridicules. Also the 2nd hard market for all 13/14th gen CPUs is basically going to be gambling how many damaged CPUS are in the wild now? who's going to want to buy one??
That was a well-made video. I did learn a lot. And yet I found my self mesmerized threw the entire video listening every time you said degradation because you went back and forth between saying it correctly or saying degragation. I kept having to rewind to hear something important I missed after falling back into that rabbit hole of listening "was that a g or a d".
12900k, basically the same CPU as 13700k but with ZERO issues 13th and 14th have, also same socket and would probably save $50. I run a 12900KS and it never skips a beat and still sits in the top 10-20 CPUs for gaming. and so you bumped into an AMD fan in the tech store.
Yeah, although I used laptop for my gaming and not gonna lie. I like the i7 14700HX it's not bad, but since this is a laptop CPU, the efficiency must be pretty fine.
@@griffin1366 E-cores in 12th gen, while not as fast as later iterations, still give you the ability to not even realize that a Windows Update is happening in the background. Something that I *do* notice on my 7800X3d system. (And before you ask, yes, separate OS and Game SSD's in both systems)
@@glenndoiron9317 Eh. Not just the speed but they were first generation. Had latency issues and if you disabled them, didn't give any cache back to the pCores like 13th/14th gen does.
11:38 From what I’ve read, Nvidia makes graphics cards for a tenth of the price of what they are sold at. They don’t care how affordable they are. They will pump as much as they can out of your wallet. To a point I agree, however they could give a far better product than what they’ve given and at a lower price and still make a good profit. They don’t care though, as long as they can still stay the highest performance and then charge harshly for it. I’m not sure what kind of profit margins a company needs in that industry. But making a graphics card for 35 bucks and then selling it for 350, there has to be a better deal they could give and still have great profits.
I'd change that title to: "These Intel CPUs are worthless". Even if the current round of CPUs are not much of an improvement (AMD 's too) having two companies really competing is a very good thing for all of us.
I agree, but Intel must save themselves. Arrow Lake is not an upgrade, it's more a refresh. It regresses in many areas, particularly gaming. Intel needs to price the 285k (aka 15900k) the same or (even better) $50 less than the 14900k AND guarantee platform support an additional cpu generation. A small incentive for consumers to support them thru their transition. It's Business 101 to understand, you must bring VALUE when you're sitting at the bottom. Intel's performance in the last few yrs from 13K cpus to 14k and now 15k is ridiculous. Their slow demise is self-inflicting.
Seeing the 13700k use 145 Watts, just to compete head-to-head with the 7800x3D that's using 65 Watts, is really unsettling. Performance be damned, but the Ryzen CPU is just so much more efficient, it's not even funny anymore. In Frames/Watt the Ryzen system really has no competition with the Intel one.
I'm not excusing intel's incompetence, but man.. Yall perpetuate internet hysteria like crazy. Meanwhile an AM5 MB costs over $200, 16GB of DDR5 $100, and the cheapest AM5 CPU? over $200. I'm buying a 12700k, MB, and 16GB DDR4 for $300. Why is AM5 still an overpriced platform?
@@kaputinkaputin i guess you missed the AMD CPUs exploding last year. Which Gamers Nexus proved Multiple times. the overwhelming majority of LGA 1700 intel owners have no problems. You're part of the hysteria.
Well, comparing cost of used Intel system to new AMD system ain't really a fair game, is it? 12700K costs ~220 USD, 16GB of good DDR4 costs ~50 bucks and you are not getting a good board that can actually sustain 12700K performance for $100 or less. The good boards start at around 150, and often go for $200 as well. So the difference is not anywhere as crazy as you portray it
Plus. on top of that, you have to factor in the cooling. AMD can be cooled by the cheapest coolers. I've run 16 core parts under $10 coolers without problems or performance loss. Good luck cooling 12700K with a cheap cooler
@EirikXL okay, maybe you are right. Before that I used 12900 also without any issues. This video is purely click bait. Intel is doing very fine, especially in the field of content production. For gaming I have an AMD, so I am not fully committed to Intel.
@@MachikoNoguchi-616 Literally yes, but in speech, "years" means "a really really long time", and in context of using a computer part for 2 years, it is not that long a time.
Thank you so much for this incredibly extensive and elaborate review! Subscribed! You have such a great talent for digesting all the bits and pieces that the Internet has left out, making this my favourite CPU comparison/review of 2024! Looking forward to your future comparisons and reviews of Arrow Lake / Panther Lake and Beyond, 20A, 18A and 14A.
My PC is mainly for gaming but I do other things from time to time. I live in a basement suite in a house surrounded by trees so its always cool-cold. During the winter my PC literally is my space heater as I do not control the furnace. Its my GPU doing the heating though! I've been lucky over the decades as to hardware failures, or lack there of. I run stability tests on this thing fairly frequently & it looks like I dodged the bullet yet again as to the microcode, so far. Electricity is dirt cheap here so I dont much care about the power draw. Having said that I'll probably go 9950X3D next build. I hear its a monster.
The 13700K won't die on you, 14th gen had even higher voltages than 13th because of the higher clock speeds, which made them degrade faster. For example my CPU had the max VID of 1.309V, giving it more longevity than other models with higher VID. If you really want to see dying CPUs, swap it to maybe a 13900K but more like a 14900K. Those beasts have way higher VIDs, making the overall avg voltage way higher for them. I got my 13700k on day1 (basically it's 2 years old now), never had a single issue except bad memory OC attempts.
I used to be a computer technician since the early 2ks - when i was a teenager. Me and my friends always went for AMD processors and ATI graphics cards for the cost-benefits. The difference in price is way higher than the difference in performance and technology. Not just that. They always seemed to last longer. Plus, we always had the impression Intel was more work oriented.
I have a 13600K, z690 and 32gb 4000MHz ram. Best combo I ever had. I do rendering, gaming, sometimes for 12 hours straight. Never had stability issues. On the other hand, my old Ryzen 5600... well
Not anyone live near micro center, the nearest micro center to me is 2 hours away, with gas price right now, any penny I save from micro center gonna go straight pay for gas so I would save nothing in the end. That’s why I prefer 13th intel right now because they are currently best price to performance.
@camdustin9164 They're at a Micro Center in the video. My post has nothing to do with your situation. Nor does it have anything to do with your poor decision to purchase Raptor Lake. I sell primarily 12400F, 5700X3D, and 7500F builds, with most still being Alder Lake.
@@drewnewby poor decisions for going Raptor Lake? You don’t even know what I do are why I’m going Raptor Lake. For Vivado (the software I use for work), my 13600kf crushes everything similar to its price. $230 when I got it and it faster than the 7700x when I tested it while being 40-50$ cheaper, it also game better and still easily cooled with a 30$ thermalright air cooler. In fact, the 9700x is still slower than my 13600kf when comes to running Vivado, though the gaming performance is virtually the same. I tried to switch to AMD yet the 13600kf manage to go up against next gen CPU and STILL hold the crown for price to overall performance. The result speak for itself.
My 14900k is for workstation purposes (LLVM compilation) and I actually love the fact that it's a space heater. I'm down in the basement and it will be a welcome addition to my home office this winter.
I built an am4 pc and my son built an Intel system. I played on his last night while he was at work. I was impressed with his system. I have a 5600x he's got an I5-11400f. Still love my amd system. I'll never go Intel.
kinda funny 10 years ago i had a AMD System and i said to myself i will never buy a AMD System again because of all the problems. went in 2017 for a i7 7700K and in early 2022 to the i7 12700KF and i´m since then happy with it and yes i´m playing in 1080p with a RTX 4080
The only time my family had an AMD CPU was before year 2000. I think it was a K5. It didn't go well and my father went back to Pentium lol. I built my first own rig in 2015 and back then AMD had a terrible reputation so of course I went with an i5-4590 and later upgraded to an i7-4790. Early this year I got a 10400 + B460 Aorus Pro AC combo from a friend for $59. The deal was so good there was no way I could say no to that, and now it's my current gaming system. I don't really play AAA games these days so I'm pretty confident that this rig will last me at least a few years more. That said I might be interested in going with AMD next, assuming that they provide better value than Intel by the time I need the next build. I've only been using old CPUs since 2019 so it's quite a lot different from how most people build their PCs.
@@thimblemunch24 K10-based AM3 CPU's like the Phenom II competed pretty well with Intel at the time... the problem being that they were competitive with later Core 2 CPU's and not the first i7's which were already released on the enthusiast socket 1366, so the bar was raised - otherwise I'd say it was the peak of dark ages AMD (2006-2016). AM3+ on the other hand (which carried the notorious FX CPUs) was a joke and even fell behind faster Phenom II X6's in some cases, and it only got worse later on when development for it was effectively abandoned after the release of the FX-8350 in 2012.
26:47 you are not supposed to have any performance regressions with undervolting. Please do your due dillegence and turn off CEP before undervolting...
You can't get more performance out of a chip by taking away voltage. A max OC chip with as much voltage as your cooling solution can handle will always out perform an undervolted setup. Doesn't matter if the undervolted setup is 5% slower at 50% less power draw, max OC overvolt+ overclock always wins.
@@juice7661 My guy, his chip was running at like 4.7ghz all core p core. That's trash, when literally applying MCE would run them all at 5.3. VID at default is like 1.28V. No need to go higher than that unless your bin is total ass.
I still remember this two-month period from November to December 2022, when the 13900K was the absolute king of CPUs. Released right when the 4090 was, it basically became what most people bought. 7000X3D had a rough launch, and it really seemed as if Arrow Lake was launched a year earlier like it was supposed to, Intel would be in a really good place right now.
@@griffin1366 I guess the thing with Intel is that it lets you game at *almost* 7800X3D levels while letting you do some actual productivity. Meanwhile, Arrow Lake decides "Hm, let's scrap that and instead make it even worse for games while giving basically zero productivity uplift, besides a better iGPU for video encoding." Considering that the instability issue is fixed, an i9-14900KS is looking like a better deal with every passing day. That's until 3D-Vcache no longer sacrifices productivity performance of course.
@@RobloxianX But if you take a 7950X3D right now, you have better gaming performance, about equal production performance, and its capped at 160W vs the 14900KS' 320W in extreme profile (or 253W on performance). There is also the matter that you can likely upgrade to the 11950X3D in a few years, which is cheaper than buying an entirely new platform... 14900KS and the 7950X3D are priced similarly, 650$ But the 14900K and the 7950X are a lot cheaper, with the 7800X3D closer to this pair, 450$ If you care about gaming and productivity, then the 7950X3D seems the smarter choice. If you care about gaming, then the 7800X3D seems the smarter choice, because it also has an easy upgrade later. And if you are after productivity, then the application is the deciding factor. 14900K or 7950X would both work, and again, the 7950X has an easy upgrade path in the future. Even on price I see no reason to go intel as the market is currently.
Superb job there Vex investigating this deep, yet sad direction tech giant Intel has gone with. A company had held faith with for some time. I worked at an Intel site in 2016 and saw a lot of negatives there. Hopefully nice big cold buckets of water like this will wake somebodies there up for a better future ahead. Thanks for the good work.
27:40 14% lower temperatures? I'm sorry but that's not how temperature works. If you wanted to convert to a percentage, the closest to anything meaningful would be to use the Kelvin unit which has the absolute zero. In which case it's a 369 to 356 degrees drop, i.e. a 3.5% drop.
i got a 13700k a couple months after launch for my first system and it's always worked fine for me. Whole system feels super responsive no matter what i throw at it. P+E cores are what made me go intel. Was pretty disappointed to hear about the degradation and voltage problems but somehow i feel as though my processor wasn't affected
7800x3d doing a better job with less than half the power and without being a defective POS. the problem with these intels was never performance. it's just literally everything else.
My 12700K doesn't suffer from these flaws, it's half the wattage of a 13700K while gaming. Definetly those 16 cores are very power hungry and scheduling issues destroy that CPU's efficency.
you cool dude bruh!! solid.... i do construction as well and im being a gamer all my life like you ... i build my own PCs... and i wish i started a channel like you but props to you and keep it up tho.... lets find out if that 13700k fails down the line for us viewers
You need a more expensive motherboard because it must have good VRMs, you need a more expensive cooler to handle the heat and you will spend more money long term on electricity, but that's something that almost no one considers at the time of purchase
Limiting it to 125W is perfectly fine, especially for gaming. Productivity is still up there too. 125W x 4 hours a day at $0.20c per kW/h is only $36.53 a year. 7800X3D is equivalent to $21.92 a year.
8:23 notice how an identical cooler is able to keep the 145W Intel CPU at 63C whereas the AMD CPU is hitting 89C from a mere 66W load. So you actually need a better cooler with the lower power AMD x3D CPU.
@@longdang2681 Notice how Vex himself said that the temperatures aren't directly comparable and that installing a higher power cooler on the 7800X3D would do nothing to lower them? Not that it matters, since it's not like it ever thermal throttles.
@@HunterTracks Doesn't change the fact that you don't need an more expensive cooler for the Intel system versus AMD x3D. It's flawed logic to immediately assume that a higher wattage CPU will need more cooling capacity(this is only true if you are comparing CPUs with similar thermal transfer ability). Even if the numbers aren't directly comparable, 26C difference is still quite big for the 12% performance increase. It's no secret that x3D chips don't transfer thermal energy as well as regular chips.
Same here since the Q6600 days. I did have a 5800X3D but I had audio crackling and Windows ran exceptionally slow on the same NVMe I use currently on my 13900k. I reinstalled Windows 5 times, used different driver versions. I tried everything.
@@griffin1366 i have a 5800x3d, absolutely zero problems. and i even run it undervolted so it can peg to its max clock speed of 4.4ghz even at all core full load, all with a reasonable 105w tdp. that said, i never had problems with intel cpus either. neither of the brands ever gave me much issue via the cpus actually. and i started way back then with an intel 486 dx4 100mhz.
this cpu generation is the most haggard shit i have ever had to tune, it starts with getting the contact frame at the right tension because otherwise it does not get stable with any ram speed you throw at it so get used to unmounting, remounting 3 4 5 6 times, then find the sweetspot voltages because otherwise your ram will not work either. what are those sweetspots you ask? who the fuck knows, every cpu is different. my last 14900kf could boot my 2x24 8200mhz c38 kit on max trefi and run it 9hour karhu stable after fiddling for 4 days with it but luckily intel can't build a cpu that doesn't melt itself so it degraded on stock voltage in 8 months to the point that it couldn't even do 5,5 allcore anymore and after switching to a new 14900kf i got a dud that can't even do 7000 stable. after all this i couldn't even be bothered and put the ram to 6000 c28, threw in some buildzoid timings and called it a day. the most horrible experience with a cpu generation i ever had in my whole life.
Great to see a fair and unbiased video! My 14700k has been a great gaming CPU, I'm at 4K and I get better 0.1% lows than a lot of people with 7800x3d in the same games. Also very efficient power draw in low loads thanks to the efficiency cores. Never goes above 81C either.
I’ve had this 13700k for about a year now. No issues, I love it. I live in Michigan and it’s cold half year round so I got no issue with the heat either lol.
Average FPS is not a good indicator of CPU performance. 1% lows is probably going to show a more significant difference. Also there are definitely some games that are CPU bound at 4k. Tarkov is a good example where x3D CPUs are getting 15-20% higher performance.
Losing Performance every bios update doesn't really scream "it's equally good" to me. For anyone that has high energy costs the Intel CPU is not worth it at all.
I wish you the greatest of luck! 🙏Personally I've had to deal with a broken CPU before, and it's not fun. Bought a Ryzen 5 3600 in 2020, but the system always had crashing issues. It was extremely hard to isolate this issue. I first RMA'd the motherboard, then upgraded the RAM. Did countless Windows reinstalls to no avail. Turned on/off boosting and PBO, tried ECO mode, RAM at 2333 MT/s, undervolt etc.. The issues continued once I was making the switch to Linux. I finally switched the CPUs from both my AM4 systems.. and the crashing and instability continued but now in the other system. At this point the warranty had already expired unfortunately. 😭
I LOVED THIS VIDEO... big job but very well done!!! intels ok when it works but temps and power usage kill the platform for me on anything higher then a i3 12100 or i5 12400 :)
Got a 14600K recently at a decent price, applied the latest BIOS update and undervolted it. Runs nice and cool. I don't game much but it seems perfectly fine for that.
At my local Microcenter in Brooklyn the AMD cpu section is always full of people while the Intel section is pretty barren. That is what happens when stock buybacks and paying dividends are more important to you than reinvesting in your core business is.
Another faster, faster, faster hyper maniac discussiion ... No matter how fast a CPU you get - next week there is new one even faster on the market. You are cannon fodder for the manufacturers of CPU's and video cards ...
I have a 14700k, powered by a 900W power supply. I fired it up with my Deep Cool cooler, and it shot to 100C in a flash, and I realized it was a space heater, not a CPU. I added a "Bending Correct" bracket, and, like you, upgraded to a Deep Cool AK620, but I added a third fan, and I used liquid metal for paste. At this point, I've done all the microcode updates, and I have it undervolted 0.195V (yes, I got lucky got a great chip), and I lowered the PCore and ECore ratios to 54 and 37 (from 56 and 43), and now it peaks at 78C. Hopefully that will be cool enough that it will last a few years. Do I wish I had purchased AM5? Damn right I do. As for water cooling, I've heard that people with water coolers have been much, much more likely to end up with CPU failure than those with air coolers, presumably because it keeps the CPU cooler, encouraging it to run faster, and apply more volts.
@@cheekyjebus5559 Yes, I was benchmarking it. When I build a new computer, that's always the first thing I do. I don't do it to compare speed, but rather to make sure that, even in the worst case, my cooling and fan settings are adequate to assure that things don't get too hot. Then I usually tune things a little. This time I made a lot more extreme changes. I acted fast, and after that first hour, I have never again attempted to operate it at it's "rated" speed, but have always operated it with both excellent cooling, and significantly underclocked and undervolted. I'm optimistic that my 14700K will have a long and happy life, but I can see how others might have been blissfully unaware of the dangers, and ended up with a cooked CPU. I think Intel sold this chip with default settings that were higher than they should have, and that the default settings were essentially overclocked. Had they sold it with lower settings, it wouldn't have been as fast, but it would have been safer, and the CPUs would have had a normal life. Over many years, I have worked with probably 100-150 Cpus, some of which I have run for 25 years, I have only had 2 CPUs fail. A not particularly well designed Cyrix cpu ran hot from the start, and failed after about six years, which didn't surprise me at all. An Intel Q9650 failed when it was about 13 years old, but I viewed that as random luck. CPUs should NEVER be failing at the rates these 14700K and 14900K chips have been failing.
Amigo, just set a static voltage. 5.4ghz all core p core at 1.27V should be easy. Old ways are the best ways, and no one on techtube aside from GoG or Frame chasers gets any exposure on how to actually have tuned an intel rig.
You hit the nail in the head; it's just hard to live with recent intel cpu. I had to work on a 12700k pc for a few days recently and the constant fan whining, ~90°C operation and pc screaming each time you load a big file or apply a filter was so distracting.
@@25myma Because you were overclocking it without realizing or maybe had an AMD stock cooler style of fan. The 12700K is faster than a 2nd gen 32 core Threadripper (2990WX) overall 👀
I'm also one to update my BIOS, or UEFI, and its still scary. I know what to do and everything, and I've done it numerous times already, but add on the anxiety of attempting to update your BIOS and not be able to afford having a UPS.
Your logic is sound my man. That's why I am a Fanboi. Like the posts before me I got the bargain on the 12th gen ( 12700 KF ) for around $117 and the the Gigabyte board ( B760M ) for a little more & 32 gig memory. It is intended to be a middling gaming PC with more a focus on productivity. My dilemma is the same as yours, Cooling ! Even though it is not as crucial on the 12th gen I wish to make the sucker stable and reliable for the long term. I am coming off of a 6th gen Intel i5 and have had good perf from it, although it was not really used for gaming . Party on Garth !
This is a really fantastic video, thanks for all the work! I bought into the 13700K pretty much right when it launched and it served me extremely well for ~2 years until about 2 months ago when I started to notice degradation, I ended up building an AMD rig with a 9700X and it's fine, but I also sent the 13700K in to Intel and got a new RMA 13700K, so I now have 2 systems up and running. The 13700K is a beast, I game a lot and I also work as a video/motion graphics producer, it's one of the best of all worlds. My Z790 is an Aorus board similar to yours and quite frankly I just ignore the Intel default spec stuff and I don't find the voltages to be any more extreme and sometimes they're less extreme which is odd. Anyway I would keep playing around with it and also just make sure to keep it cool lol, DeepCool 360 AIO or Arctic FTW.
Intel's biggest mistake was selling overclocked "out-of-the box" CPUs. I have been doing this for 20 years plus, there has always been an understanding that when you OC a CPU you take a big risk. It is beyond baffling to me that Intel was so overconfident that they they thought overclocking out-of-the box was a good idea. I have a 14900K, the first thing I did to it was downclock to 5.4 Ghz... The two priority cores still boost to 5.7 when needed and I get pretty close to the perf I'd get in game with 5.7 on all P cores.... The CPU is slightly undervolted and I have not seeing it go above 1.32v or so
lol, Intel Arrow Lake is not making them look any better
Quick little correction: at 27:25 the undervolt testing I did was on the "Gigabyte Optimized" Profile as it was on the F6 Bios. Both sides are the same, I just labeled it wrong- my b
Hope you enjoy this and it can help set the stage for Intel. This has been a monstrous project :)
deduct -30 from amd because you know amd fake fans, they like to pretend online
you should try space marine 2 . some battles the game is cpu limited at 1080p ... also flight simulator is also cpu limited even at 4k
If you're sitting on a 13900k, looking to upgrade Intel, where do you go? 14900k is maybe 3% faster? 285k (aka 15900k) req the purchase of a new single-use mb, is, at best another 2 or 3%.
Surely, they aren't expecting AMD owners on AM4/AM5, to bypass or move off 5800x3d/7800x3d to purchase a lackluster cpu with no platform future. Who is their customer? Why would they pay more for less, with no 'olive branch' extension or commitment from Intel?
Consoles are BETTER THAN PC HAHAHA PC IS 🗑️🤣
@@cctv2500 Lol, This is what you do when your dad steps away from his PC with it unlocked? Smh
Im pretty sure AM4 is the main reason so many people are on AMD platforms. Its amazing how long this platform is lastinng and still provides great perfomance.
its amazing how AM4 somehow still beats even AM5 CPUs. No one really wants to buy ANOTHER motherboard with their CPU. "Future proofing" by buying the highest end everything is actually the worst thing you can do because it leaves no room to move
@@Mr.GenesisAM4 does not beat AM5 CPUs, unless you're comparing 5800X3D to 7600X for some reason.
I absolutely despise the 3000 series from AMD 3700X was a scam AMD was literally giving us a 2015 powered CPU in 2019 I built a rig in 2020 and was already bottlenecked am I was really behind however they seem to make it up with the 5000 series but let's be real here what's the point of upgrading through the same platform if they're just going to give us garbage performance for its time heck we're already seeing that right now with am 5 9000 series Dead on arrival and the x3d variants are garbage as well by the look of the leaks 8% better my butt
🙂 agree, i dont need another computer right now but if i needed one i like the Ryzen 7 lineup and the nicer AM4 ATX Boards, right now the Ryzen 7's for AM4 are alot cheaper than i7s, it wasnt like that a few years ago. I like anything that has 8 cores and 16 threads.
i am tottaly skipping am5 with my 2019 x470 gaming 7 and 3600X upgraded to 5950X few months ago
7800x3d running at 65 Watt and the intel equivalent running at 5x the wattage is just insane.
Yeah that $150 difference in price is so "equivalent" cmon man. If you compare CPUs compare the prices.
7800x3D = over $450 USD. 13700k = $320 USD.
@@Mr.Genesis yeah now it is, but a month or 2 ago it was at ~$340
@@xTRTSCx So at the time of this video being posted (Today) the information i provided is more accurate. 😅
At $450 now which the 13700k has never been.
@@Mr.Genesis7800X3D only costs that much because AMD stopped making new ones in prep for 9800X3D, and the ones that were left in stock are currently getting scalped to hell and back. The irony is that it wouldn't cost nearly as much if Intel actually had a decent alternative to offer.
AM4 was AMD's best strategy of their company's existence. It has played out so well. Lisa Su truly had a vision with it.
She's a glorified PR person. You praise her only because she's a her. When any other company does something good, you don't praise the CEO.
@@kaczan3 jesse wtf are you talking about
@@kaczan3 She's an actual engineer. Why do you think she's called Dr Lisa Su. Do your research instead of speading FUD.
*YEAH*, exactly! The *vision* is the most important - and keeping the promises of 5-year support of the platform! Amazing! I *LOVE* AMD because of this vision. ............ But don't get me wrong, it was NOT without problems. There are *ALWAYS* some problems with a *completely* NEW HW / NEW CPU_architecture........
And what AMD did and released in April of 2017 was a pretty *brave* LEAP OF FAITH !! They *created* a completely NEW architecture from scratch and at the same time they *SHRINKED* their manufacturing_process from their previous_experience 32nm and 40nm SOI ...... to 14nm ! No one has EVER done this before, NEVER! So I am really impressed it went SO WELL ----- I mean: with ONLY RAM_controller INSTABILITY!
In the beginning (Ryzen 1800X, HW revision 00) - it was a VERY *painful* experience gaming on it !!! ... I mean - even with the most compatible RAM (G.Skill 3600) running at the BASE frequency of DDR4-2400, it was still UNSTABLE = randomly FREEZING ... a lot - but ONLY when fully loaded... there were only a handful of games capable of FULLY loading this 8-core BEAST..... : CRYSIS III, Metro Exodus and HL: ALYX . These were crashing the most of all - on Ryzen 1800X !!! ... but the newer CPUs - they ALL already have a 100% stable RAM controller. So, no more problems after upgrading the CPU to 5800X and later to 5800X3D ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Reminder that the poll doesn't show that more people have AMD, its that more AMD people respond to these kinds of polls because AMD buyers zealously watch youtube tech channels more than intel buyers.
1:55 - ""Intel Inside" is now a warning" 🤣🤣🤣
Haha funny, cleaver
1:33 props to the employee at microcenter being honest to the consumer. Instead of just letting another uninformed customer clearing their dead inventory.
This means that Microcenter staff really treat their customers right and prioritise educating their customer to make the best value choice for their PCs.
How is being and AMD shill "being honest"? You can clearly see in this video that the intel does well in games and does much better in other aplications.
@@metallboy25AMD shill? So all these years, what was it with intel? Also, everyone knows x3d chips are not meant to be good at productivity, they are worse than their non x3d amd chips due to their lower clockspeed.
@@metallboy25 If anyone's a shill, it's you. There's a reason why Intel has been in the news a lot this year, and it wasn't for creating the best CPUs.
Intel is power inefficient, their 13th and 14th generation CPUs were unreliable, they produce so much heat, and when they tried to fix it with their new generation, they saw regression in games.
Oh, and X3D CPUs aren't for productivity work, something like the 9950X or 7950X are more catered to productivity, where they use less power than Intel for comparable or greater performance.
Believe me, I would love for Intel to be trading blows with AMD, same with AMD and Intel trading blows with Nvidia in the GPU market. Competition creates innovation, but Intel still rides on the coattails of it's previous dominance over AMD.
@@metallboy25 Oh, looks like Iv'e spotted a userbenchmark diehard fan or maybe their writer?
@@metallboy25 That's all fun and games until it starts causing bsod and other errors.
I paid $560 for a defective space heater. Never again.
i9 9900k here its not bad but it sounds like i got off the boat before it sank im excited to try amd for my next rig
Same I paid $700 for the 14900K. Oxidized and dead on my carpet, switched to 7800X3D :)
That is the thing though. Is not horrible to go Intel if you are building something cheap but if you want to go big money then you are better with AMD because those i9 suck and need as much power as a nuclear submarine.
But if you find a cheap i5 or an older generation cheap i7 is not that horrible for a lower budget built.
But generally i think i5 is the best for an Intel system because that CPU will probably be good enough with air-cooling while you might need more for an i7 and if you start buying watercoolers you are ruining the cheap built.
I picked up a z690 DDR5 board and 12700F on release with the plan of updating to the latest CPU the board supported in a couple years time. I'm glad I got 12th gen but now I can't upgrade. Last time I ever buy intel
Get it replaced under warranty.
The fact that a CPU draws more power than my 2070 GPU is kind of nuts.
AMD is even worse.
@@cuzr702 How? AMD CPUs are generally much more efficient.
@@cuzr702 in which way?
Are you some kind of bot? I saw your comment twice in a row, and just 4 hours apart, I mean, who comments 4 HOURS after the first comment??
@@100organicfreshmemes5 AMD is more efficient when fully loaded but loses at idle due to its chiplet design. But thats all I can think of.
28:12 you undervolted too much and CPU protection mechanism started to stretch the clocks. So effectively the CPU was running few hundreds MHz slower.
Or, alternatively, CEP was just trigger happy just for sake of it and you could undervolt further with it disabled. So yeah, give it a shot. Intel runs these CPUs at voltages they needed at launch, not now, when they got way more experience in producing these. Their node also still matures and gets better as the time passes. So Intel CPUs generally undervolt like crazy, just like Zen 4 CPUs do now vs. launch
But when your undervolt a 13700k while locking the core clocks to 5.3 Ghz in theory you shouldn't lose performance ?
@@Osaka2407 Each individual CPU is going to have its own voltage table based on binning at the manufacturer.
@@AngryChineseWoman Depends. You should not loose performance by just undervolting alone but when CEP is triggered or logic just isn't stable enough, it will start to stretch the clocks. It will seem that CPU holds frequency just fine but the actual performance will be lowered. If it's CEP triggering, you may disable it and try to UV further. BUT! IIRC turning CEP off also prevents or limits clock stretching so while you may achieve even better results, there is also risk of instability as CPU will crash instead of just stretching the clocks in heavy load scenario you may have not tested for
@@danieljackheck Yes, but the binning stays on the really safe side. You usually can UV by 50 mV. If you use good MB, set VRM correctly, -70-100 mV often is doable. Personally I was able to UV one 12700K by 110 mV and I've seen people doing even more without loosing performance, which is crazy.
By sacrificing couple hundred MHz, peaking at around 1.15-1.2V under load is nothing unusual on Alder and Raptor Lake.
You can't say temp. is 14% lower. If temp was +2'C and now it is +1'C, it does not mean it is 2 times or 50% colder. This is common scientific, logical error. And it depends if you use 'C or F - then you would get even lower % differences.
You are correct, but most people don't understand.
OK Lord Kelvin
@@1pcfred Lord Kelvin RULES.
Elaborate
@@Raderade1-pt3om Basically, temps are a made up scale of numbers, unlike regular numbers where 2 is the double of 1. 0'C is not the point in which there is no heat, it's just the point at which water freezes at sea level air pressure, more of a reference point than a zero. Consider 0'C an unknown value instead of 0, like "x", since it is a temperature where heat is still present. In that case, 1'C is x+1'C and 2'C is x+2'C, and you can't assume one of them is the double of another. Measuring temperature by Kelvin is more accurate in that regard, since its 0 point (0 K) actually is the point in which there is 0 heat, also known as Absolute Zero. That's why you see the other comments joking around saying "Lord Kelvin".
Hey Vex
I used to hate your video being click baity with stupid thumbnails and kind of low effort bc most of the time you were iust reacting to tech news and others benchmarks.
But this video quality and testing is actually really good. And the coverage is all round. Good job dude👍
I've had two 13900Ks die on me, I think the first was the oxidation issue due to the timing but second was definitely due to degradation as the memory controller was failing as well. I downgraded to a 12900KS because it was cheap; 12th gen didn't appear to have the same issues and didn't have to change the board.
Sorry to hear that
been running a 14700k with cpu frame, 7400 DDR5 for a whole year with zero issues and everyone i know on 13700k or 13900k has no problems either. You're just terribly unlucky
@@synqFPS lmao no, you are terribly lucky instead. Intel's issues are real, their stock price will let you know 🤣🤣
Because 12th gen was not a factory overclocked bs like 13th and 14th.
@@DragonOfTheMortalKombat thats cuz people plug and play on intel running shit at 1.45v on stock playing games at 100c
skill issue
I don't know man. It's not that the engineers on the Intel production floor were screaming that there would be quality control issues and management told them to kick rocks. It's not the power efficiency. It's not the reliability. The big problem for me was that Intel gaslit OEM partners and lied to customers for TWO YEARS deflecting blame for a problem that they 100% knew about ahead of time. I won't touch their lazy designs until executive management gets purged. Throwing 50% of your net worth into the trash and setting yourself back 40 years isn't a great way to turn the company around. Why would I reward their stupidity by sending them my cash when I can buy objectively better stuff for less? 12th gen was great but look at the longevity of AM4. 13 looked lazy before we knew about the reliability and performance issues. 14 was a waste of sand. With Ultra they actually managed to look worse. Intel is now the 50% off bargain bin option. Brutal.
Unfortunately they are too big to fail and government is going to bail them out with our tax money so we can compete with China, instead of just firing their failures of executives to save money especially considering they just made massive layoffs to regular workers and if it is really that important to American success maybe it should, idk, be run by people who are looking out for American's best interests rather than personal financial gain.
But that's socialism! Of course bailing them out with taxes, that's not socialism, that's just good foreign policy. Ridiculous. If they are going to get bailed out by American taxpayers, the American taxpayers should own it. Same with all those banks that robbed the American people twice.
Unfortunately, we have an entire political party controlling at least half the elected positions who are completely opposed to the government doing anything but putting money in their allies pockets while taking it out of the pockets of the American taxpayers.
But they say they want small government, except when it comes to using taxpayer money to fix the broken free market. In that case, the free market and capitalism is wrong and needs to be propped up by government, but the government and American people shouldn't control the businesses it is financially supporting with taxpayer funds.
Anyone who isn't brainwashed can see how this is completely hypocritical and doesn't make sense, and if something is critical to the public good and success of America as a whole it should be heavily regulated and controlled, especially if American taxpayers are going to be forced to financially invest in it with literally no expectation of receiving anything in return but a passable alternative to foreign produced chips, or having predatory banks and lending that is literally designed to suck as much money from you AND the American government to enrich just a few selfish oxygen thieves.
Plus they can feed that money they stole into propaganda and lobbying politicians, and in getting their Republican votes to be worth more through the electoral college and gerrymandering and lax bribery and lobbying and financial investment laws.
It's just so ridiculous. Advanced Micro Devices should rebrand to American Made Design or Devices and take over Intel's chip making with government investment if they really believe in the "free market" and care that much to use taxpayer money to prop up an American chip maker.
Intel has already went the same route as Boeing, which has left us in the space faring hands solely of a crazy billionaire supervillain basically.
Man, America has really gone downhill since the whole "Declaration of Independence," thing.
Sad to see my personal issues with Intel in 2001 are still ongoing for folks today, I don't usually keep track of this anymore because I haven't been in a situation it mattered for years, but they were profoundly bad in dealing with resellers back then while AMD Australia were incredible comms wise in addressing what was happening and not beating about the bush.
Nobody today knows 100% what's going on. Least of all is you.
Engineers screaming that there would be quality control issues and the management telling them to kick rocks was the main reason for the downfall of two iconic American companies from different industries but with pretty much the same problems now: *Intel* and *Boeing.* The similarities are striking, the comparison unavoidable.
@@goytabr no one knew there'd be any issues with idling wafers. It's likely it's not fully understood. So it's nothing anyone has any right to scream about. The history of our rise is a comedy of errors. That's how it works. We make mistakes and then learn from them. Success is falling down seven times and getting up eight.
Windows 24h2 runs so bad on core ultra 200 series that it makes it seem like windows hates intel
Ultra Performance in Windows 11 will or has killed most of the processors in question.
😂😂😂😂
Microsoft and their sloppy code is the bottleneck nowadays
23h2 intel still loses to ryzen 7000. Hardware unboxed tested on 23h2.
@@Riyozsu yeah I know I just wanted to state that windows isn't siding with anyone so assuming that windows prefers intel is a misinterpretation!
Got a 13600K and it runs everything great. "No one wants Intel" is definitely not true.
Ran an FX 8350, then upgraded to a 6700K on release. The difference was just incredible, even if the 8350 still wasn't "bad" at that time, still true 8 core compared to intel.
This made me think the 13th gen intel was still the better choice.
Shopped around, and the 13600K was the better value. Cheaper, while providing similar or better performance than AMD's offerings at even 15% higher price.
13600K on a pretty mid tier MOBO, running a Noctua U14s (single tower air cooler) gets great temps, runs quiet and stable. I have had zero issues with it.
Then I had to help my neighbour with his amd 5800x that had major overheating issues, even with a 240 AIO or twin tower air cooler. A bios update fixed it. That felt a little sketchy.
With that said, if I where to buy a new PC today, I would go 7xxx or 9xxx series AMD. But 13th gen wasn't bad, unless you looked at the i9...
FX8350 to 6700k was quite a jump back in the day…. But fx8350 was never a true 8 core, just marketing.
It's literally just group think form the vocal minority. People just want to confirm their biases. There's obvious discussion to be had on legit hardware issues. It's fair to say that the issues with voltage on intel should scare joe normie - but it feels like this area of tech tube is the semi-informed normie. They act like a low level it suits them, and act informed when it suits them.
Why someone like Frame chasers can identify the massive voltage spikes on boost cores causing the degradation, while everyone else with a semi large platform faffs about?
Yeah, 14900k without issues here. Kinda annoying to see most tech tubers get on the hate train, it was annoying when they were on the Intel train for a loooong time and now it's annoying they are on the AMD train.
Stop getting on trains.
(my second system is AMD and i have an AMD laptop, in before any bias comments)
@@Greez1337 Yeah, the voltage degradation is a huge issue for sure, but it's not like Intel isn't replacing chips or addressing it. AMD had a similar problem with their chips a long time ago, and they had to do the same thing.
It's just funny hearing people say "Intel is dead!" just because their top chips can't provide 1% performance gains over their rivals when the majority of gamers won't ever notice the difference.
Let me add to the comments at 0:11 - Upgraded from a 10980XE to a 9950x on x670. Best choice I could've made with my 3090 at 4K 120Hz.
12th gen was really good in my opinion. Got a 12600k for 285$ 3 months after launch, paired it on a cheap Z ddr4 mobo and off to the races. I limited the tdp to 125W and it turned into a really efficient CPU for multithread workloads. Adding UV got me down to 95W, for with a 5% loss in performance but -45% reduction in power draw (-110mV, got lucky there!).
Really good gen, but was already pushed a bit too high, then Intel shot themselves in the foot with 13th and 14th gen
yup, i have a dozen 12th gen sku for me and the family, they work fine, they are on discount at Microcenter, you can get an i7K sometimes for less than 200
ya i have a 12th gen 12700f runs good with lots of hours on it
12600k is a great chip, I got mine used for a good price.
Put a cheap ex crypto mining 3060ti in and some ddr5 ram and am happy with it.
Bought a 12600kf on black Friday 2023 for $148 USD. Price to performance is great! Paired it with a 6800 non xt that I got for $380.
14th was the final nail in the coffin for that foot I guess.
The number one reason is not the performance in isolation, but the performance per watt.
I'm already undervolting and underclocking both my CPU and GPU to survive summers without needing to use my aircon.
100% Agree with everything else but note that overall efficiency is very important for some of us.
Appreciate the work you did on this, very well put together and your points came across as very fair, you also addressed just about every strength and weakness of both AMD and Intel CPUs in general, was a joy to listen/watch.
With this video you are hitting far beyond your subscriber/view count in quality and just simple constructive reasoning with some great evidence to back up your claims :-)
Also loved the unbiased nature of this video and would love to see more of it since fanboying over one company is just about always a bad thing and kills innovation within this space etc.
Yes. This. People that recommend me to prefer Intel must be living near the Arctic. They must be having no idea what it feels like living in a hot and humid tropical area without air conditioning. 150W heater is good enough to make a small bedroom like a sauna, let alone having a 600W PC...
Yep. Thats why I dont buy AMD GPUs.
"I'm already undervolting and underclocking both my CPU and GPU"... I think maybe you should just buy a Nintendo Switch tbh
@@AJsWorld (XD) interesting that you went with ntendo switch.
I had a 5900hx/3070 Asus G17 laptop that I absolutely adored to bits, though for my needs, one who isn't mobile regarding gaming needs desktop simply made more sense eventually, but I still miss the efficiency I got from it where I would disable my 3070 in older games like SWTOR and might & magic which I was playing at the time and simply play with the onboard vega gpu basically gamming at 50-70watts in total.
Anyway in the end overall experience on desktop is simply superior since I'm not dealing with optimus, low vram and some annoying cpu bottlenecking experience anymore.
You AMD fanboys talk about electricity like it was liquid gold, a few watts here a few watts there most of the appliances in your house need many hundreds if not thousands of watts 🤣
Initially I thought you were ragging on the i7 but I'm glad you emphasized its use for video work. Being a video editor myself I've built a monster rig with 80TBs of HDD storage, 128GB DDR4, 3080 ti and the 13700K in the midst of all that has pumped out hour long TED talk style videos (With motion graphics mind you) SEAMLESSLY for the past 18 months!
What's it with video editing? That Al you hear these days, yet there's never anything put and ever does anyone have anything worthwhile to say anyway.
What videos are we talking about anyways? Church concessions?
I'd rather pluck toenails than video edit
@@bujfvjg7222 stage talks my guy. TED talk style videos with motion graphics.
NVIDIA needs to pay attention to what happens to greedy companies.
"they lived happily ever after"? - Willy Wonka
they raise to billions of net worth. in case of nvidia.
@@itsTyrion Intel also used to be incredibly successful, but if nvidia does the same thing where they hold top status for a few years and stop trying to innovate because they believe amd will not catch up, AMD or someone else will do the same thing to them as AMD did to intel
I just had a technician come and replace my i7 14900F for the 2nd time. Overheated today, called tech support. Now I have to mail in my alienware aurora r16 to be "fixed" by engineers. Cost me 1500$ and all I got was a proprietary space heater. Feel pretty defeated. Can't edit videos. YT is in the toilet.
that sounds more like the terrible alienware case design rearing it's ugly head. I have never seen my 13700k hit above 85C even with a full 250W load, partially cause I got lucky and am stable at -170mV partially cause I have good airflow in my case.
Can they change the board to an AMD system?
@damienlobb85 not after purchase
TH-cam has been down the tubes since Google sucked it off.
@bujfvjg7222 that's a different matter
Why do I use AMD CPU's? Between the 65 watts my R7 7700 and 220 watts my RTX 4070 Super pull, I need a space heater to keep my PC warm.
i love my 4070 super, undervolted and 120fps limit shes basically a 100w card haha.
@@ConnorH2111”She”, I don’t want to know what other things you do with your GPU.
@@Simon_Denmark why are you being weird?
@@thewtfverse9763 It’s called a joke, sorry I forgot that there’s always someone like you that takes everything seriously.
I live in a very hot climate and have an i5-13600k and 7900xt cooling cost me 3 cheap pwm fans and a 100$ AIO (this is plus taxes and vat). I torture it for an hour on cinebench the hottest core doesn't cross 84C. I think you chucklenuts just don't know know how power works.
Missed the poll, but ye - I'm on intel 12400 on pair with 3060ti and gaming 1440p. Pretty much happy with my 2.5yo build
i love my 12700K
I personally helped building 2 PCs this year. One with a 12100 and another with a 12400. They both were very good for how little they cost and been running without issues until this day. Ryzen 7000 is good but the mobo cost is atrocious, so it's quite a lot harder to build on a tight budget, at least for now.
That's my rig!
12th gen was awesome, except for the ILM.
Yeah that 12400 is a great chip, I have two boxes running them and never felt any need to "upgrade" to 13th/14th gen.
@@MoultrieGeek we dont need more as long our games run smooth f*** 30 fps here and there
When I saw all these reported issues with 13th & 14th gen I thought to myself I guess I'm the luckiest intel user around, I bought my i9-13900K in late 2022 and never had any stability issues lol (Also quicksync and thunderbolt is no joke I do love these features on intel, my i9 paired with the 7900 XTX is like the perfect combo)
You aren't lucky, there is just a ton of bad hype from people that don't own them. I'm pretty happy with my 13900kf as well. It doesn't have quicksync but I don't use it.
Also got the 13700kf paired with 7900 xtx since early 2023 and indeed its a strong combo.
Same with my 14700k, no issues and performs very well. Gets better 0.1% lows than the 7800x3d in a lot of the games I play too. As high end systems all get great max FPS, it's the lows that matter to me most.
@@rluker5344 Well, it is a fact that Intel 13 and 14 are generally more prone to degradation than other generations. Several companies are switching to AMD and press outlets like Hardware Unboxed, Gamers Nexus, Level1Tech, etc have reported this. Even a gaming company called Alderon Games found that virtually all of their Intel-based machines were failing and affecting the performance of servers in the Path of Titans game (of course, a normal consumer PC is one thing, a server with other servers running 24/7 is quite another).
As a techno bro hoping to get a good PC by the early next year to work as a Systems Engineer focused on programming, I am not going to go for Intel because I am really afraid that I will be unlucky and my CPU will be very prone to degradation. Yes, microcode, BIOS and firmware updates should prevent degradation in new CPUs but *I already lost confidence in the brand.*
Yea I've never actually personally known anyone with issues, only ever read about them online which makes me suspicious
By the way the 13th and 14th gen i5, namely the 13600K and 14600K, have been insane value. They have what should be i7-level performance, and go head to head with the Ryzen 7 (non-X3D), not Ryzen 5. They also don't heat up as much and have not been reported as suffering the fates of their higher-tier siblings.
why no 5$ thermalright frame for save intel cpu's broooo???
It depends, some cpus benefit from it but not all. some even cause other issues.
@@juice7661 well,no,it prevents bending,thats all
First thing I got when installing my 14900k. A few bio tweaks and haven't had any issues.
This is a great video. Earned mu sub with this one.
I bought my 13700K in the Fall of 2022, and I ran it in a gaming PC with e 6800XT, then a 7900XTX, with a 280mm AIO, for an average of about an hour per day. I used the default power settings of my Z670 Taichi motherboard, and I have had zero issues. Still, when all the stability issues hit the fore, I took it out of service. I'm about to install the latest 0x12b microcode and start using it again -- for production. I can do that because I have a 7800X3D system ready to assemble -- for gaming. My next faster CPU for production is a 3900X, or maybe it's my 5700X. The 13700K smokes them both. Here's hoping it doesn't smoke itself as well.
I think only the 13900k*'s and 14900k*'s had problems. You are perfevtly fine with the 13700 series.
@@ContraVsGigi By the reports I've seen, plenty of Alder Lake i7s have had these issues as well. My example has had an easy life, only gaming at 4K.
1h a day that's rookie numbers my guy, barely used that thing
@@HellGatefr2 Well, life.
13 and 14700s are also affected, just less of them. Even some 600s have been affected but the percentage is very small.
Heats my room in winter and plays games, win win.
Until summer rolls around...
He like sweating in summer... 😂😂😂@@Globodyne
you do know that a 7800x3d runs hotter than a 13900-14900k in games? lol, the irony of talking when you dont know what you're on about.
you are paying for electricity so...Not a win win...
@@AGENTEN-ry6lr tests say otherwise 🤣
I have a 13600k with a be quiet Dark Rock Pro 4 cooler since April 2023 and haven't had any issues. Also installed the latest microcode bios updated on my Z790 TUF board and still going strong.
Thats the thing a lot of people arent updating the microcode haha, I had a EVGA Kingpin Z690 sitting around I wanted to use so I waited until EVGA released the 0x29 microcode. They released it 2 weeks ago which is when I bought my 13600k. Temps are great, Overclock temps are great, wattage is even good. It's a great cpu to pair with my 3090.
Yeah, I'm at my PC all day so I tend to check for a new BIOS almost every day and I needed to undervolt because I have a Hyper 212 for cooling lol. So I was already preventing problems that I didn't know could happen.
@@bruwy7370 updating a motherboard bios isn't hard, but I know a lot of normal people would never do that.
been about the same for me i have a 14700k but never had any issues and iv had it for months now
Have 13700kf have on 5.5ghz on all cores and run super from day one.
Amazing work Vex. Thanks for putting the work for this video
Built your first computer in 2016... I5-2500... Old as Balls... Man that made me feel old. First PC I built was an AMD K6 233Mhz about 9 or 10 years prior :)
BTW, you are awesome.
Cheers.
I had the uh K6 that went up to 500mhz but didnt have a dedicated GPU so games ran like shit.
2006 on a K6-2? Good lord I was running an Opteron 165, the first available dual core processor to consumers on socket 939. The only time I was ever on the bleeding edge. Good times.
I'm on a 12700k and it's absolutely fine, it hardly ever gets hot, it's very reliable and it's somewhat quick and it was dirt cheap.
What's your cooling solution and what are the temperatures? I'd like to run a dirt cheap air cooler with a dirt cheap CPU.
@@toncica Noctua U12A is enough for the 12700K but kinda noisy on Cinebench. If you want a quiet PC on Cinebench, Corsair 5000D Airflow and Noctua D15 as a top notch air cooled combo. The thermal paste is irrelevant (basically MX4).
Is the most power efficent and powerful i7 that can be easily aircooled, check motherboard settings.
Intel motherboards for some reason use overclocking settings at "stock", my 12700K was running hot at 220 watts and 90°C, dropped the voltage to sane levels (1.2-1.3) and now almost matched Gamer's Nexus 's max power levels and 67°C. Must be a bugged BIOS.
Pretty good cpu
@@TiGeRoof Extremely underrated and overlooked nowadays. Everyone praised it at launched.
I'm using 12900f, with BeQuiet Silent loops, max at 65 ish degrees but it eats electric bill
Two year old 13700k running at 5.8ghz perfectly.
Faster than 14900KS in games. Before it even came out.
5.8Ghz? Literal platinum sample right there. What voltages and how did you test for stability?
that realy nice ! my 14700k runs pcores 5.7ghz ecores 4.5ghz hitting 37k in cinebench r23 . cpu at 1.35v with offset -0.100v 253watt intel default with 64gb ddr5 cl36 6000mhz on new microcode
My 14900KS hits 6.5ghz overclocked
Got it running at 5.9ghz now on two cores and 6 cores at 5.8ghz.
What's up with the 7800X3D anyways? Are they discontinuing it all together or just artificially creating panic to make people buy the 9800X3D at launch? I see it's still about $280 on AliExpress but no idea how smart it is to order it from there
Also retailers need to raise the prices to show a cut at black friday.
the mediocre reviews on the 9700X in regards to gaming really made 7800X3D go up in price again lol.
Scalpers bro. They gonna flood the market later when New GPU and CPU launches around January. Happened last year too with other CPUs.
Black friday scam again, raising prices so that they can nickel and dime unsuspecting shoppers and during the black friday sales, they're going to do "deep" discounts
They've stopped production of them, yes. 5800X3D too, but at least there's 5700X3D there.
11:07 finally someone said it.
Above 1080p its a margin of error between CPUs.
Lol, that's not how it works. CPU matters just as much at 4k, you're just wayyy more likely to be bottlenecked by your GPU.
This is one of the best videos I've seen this year. You Went in Unbiased, tried everything you could to find anything that would bring Reasoning to any disposition that ONE/(Two) Chips had. Not only was this entertaining; you came through to not only find these facts but articulated your findings for us all to understand in an interesting way.
I got i7 12700kf recently, those are great right now for around 180$
Same, the last Intel CPU worth buying in my opinion. 13 and 14 gen are cooked lol.
K version is better than KF, that iGPU is the real deal.
Swap my i5 11400 and 2060 super for a 12700 non K, getting my 4070 super in 2 days working fine for me
me too its pefect 12700k goat
@@nivea878 The best i7 ever created.
For "Eco mode" on Intel you can set up a Power limit in a bios to any number of watts. All intel motherboards have this option. Gigabyte has 6 power limit options you just need to enter the same number to all of them.
@@Anderson_LS that is true, although I do agree with Vex that a "eco mode button" would be nice, that could be found in the Easy bios, easily accessible for all users.
Eco mode doesn't stop the degrading problems though as the voltage still hits 1.5V+ as a single core tries to boost to 6ghz.
its eco mode by default, it has ecores
@@iikatinggangsengii2471 😂😂
This. I tried a 125 W Limit with my 13900K and the performance was still really good.
My 12100f going CRAZY. Okey no joke i am amazed how good this cpu is for 65w and the price xD
9600x looking at this comment: 😐
I can't believe intel is dropping their best value CPU for best performance i LOVE the i3. They're the little engines that could.
@@Darojar09600x:300$
12100f:90$
You:🤡
I used to rock a Ryzen 1700, and I still can't wrap my head around how a 4 core 12100f is about as fast in multi core workloads and completely obliterates the zen 1 cpu in games.
You put that into a Riptide B760M board and with BLCK OC it will perform like a 12900ks in games.
Great video, sound like a lot of work but it came together well, just blew through nearly an hour watching and was hooked the whole time.
Thank you for the lengthy video. I really enjoyed it, so I hope you do another one. Hell even if it's once a year.
Probably someone already commented this but the reason older F7 bios (with letters) were removed is because they were beta bios versions. It's a gigabyte weird naming scheme.. So basically F1, F2 etc. is a normal "release" version while F6b, F7f etc. is a beta.
I’ve bought this exact CPU a few months after its launch, in january 2023. My decision prioritized productivity instead of gaming (which I honestly rarely do anymore). So far so good. This thing is snappy and still as blazingly fast as it was back then when I turned on the pc for the first time. Luckily, I didn’t experienced yet any of the issues that some costumers lately have been reporting with intel CPUs.
That being said, one should keep in mind that these Raptor Lake do run quite hot under heavier loads, getting way hotter much faster than any other CPU I’ve used before. It does demand a robust cooling system to perform without throttling and to avoid physical damage due to the heat. Personally I’m using a 360mm AIO from Lian Li and it’s been holding itself pretty well at the task. I think changing the original CPU frame is a good idea too, as it may help to prevent the CPU from bending as well as to better dissipate the heat it produces.
The problem with heat isn't just physical damage to the CPU...
It also heats up your room to unbearable levels in the summer and your wife divorces you when she sees the electricity bill.
@@Nayah9 Lol. That’s true as well.
39:45 oh, believe me, BIOS updates are scary. The last update I installed caused my PC to go into 15 minute coma.
Same, so fucking annoying.
Well, I've tried unplugging power mid gigabyte bios update and it just goes back to the previous bios you where using on its own. Its impossible to brick the board no matter what stage of the bios update you unplug power, early mid or late, same outcome.
You can cool even a 13900k for less than $45 without throttling.
1. Get a $8 contact frame
2. Get a $35 thermalright phantom spirit
This setup can compete with aios and can tame that beast.
reason for installing aio is to dump the heat out, if we have the system encased in a box
"Snappy" is how I describe any cpu paired with a fresh windows install.
Even with bloat these i7s are extremely fast and definetly is the core count and clockspeed, the IPC is very high.
The 7800X3D is simply sluggish in Windows use, i tried my i7-12700K with E-Cores disabled and it feels sluggish as well.
Do you own a Ryzen 9 PC?
A friend has a 5900X and is just as snappy as my 12700K. I just noticed recently how massive the difference cores and threads do make when i switched from a Haswell i7 to a Zen 1 Ryzen 7.
@@saricubra2867 I'm still rockn' on a Ryzen 9 3950x. Not sluggish at all.
@@networkg It's a Ryzen 9 proving my point
Try using linux 😊
Fun fact, I bought my 11700K for $150 new from Micro Center a few years back because that was the start of when nobody wanted to buy Intel anymore because it wasn't good and, you know, it's only good for the money. It's horribly power inefficient and not very performant compared to the 5800X.
11th gen was a total dud. Worst gen out of 10th-14th gen.
You should've go with the 11900K and a good Z590 MB like the Maximus Hero XIII, which would give you a good performance boost.
@@robicelus I only got it because of the price I got the combo at. So that would not have been to my benefit. The only cooler I could afford with the money I had left is barely enough with 2 fans maxxed out and attached.
@@Felale "I bought my 11700K for $150 new from Micro Center " It was a value purchase. That was literally the first sentence.
@@FelaleWhich 11th gen?
Mobile or desktop?
They aren't the same.
13900K @ 5.9Ghz, 8000Mhz RAM (or secondary profile of 6800Mhz, 1T, Gear 2 mode) as a gaming + workstation PC has been an absolute blast.
Oddly enough in Battlefield 2042 I get more FPS than my friend with a 7800X3D. We both have RTX 4080 GPU's.
Your friend needs to optimize his PC. Also enjoy your "win" as the CPU will crap out (hope you have a way to RMA it).
@@yonghominale8884 Optimize in what way? He's running an undervolt + XMP or whatever the AMD equivalent is.
And I won't have any degrading :)
Not all games benefit from the 3D cache.
@@griffin1366 Tell him to stop undervoting and his pc will smoke yours.
@@yonghominale8884lil bro is pissed his all so great amd cpu is losing to intel
@@hamza.991in wonderland 😅
A built a new PC this which is not something i do often like every 5-10 years and upgrade my GPU every 3-5 years depending on if i need to, after a ton of research i picked the i5-13600k and was quite happy with it. The temps under load with a air cooler was kind of crazy but i was happy enough then the intel stability issues started i was running my I5 with a 300mhz overlock via Microsoft's own auto overclock software. The next couple months sucked i ended up having only a few crashes from a VRAM error message and my CPU was sucking down more watts then it was when it was built barely a few months before. So after scrambling around and being generally destressed about the issue i managed to convince amazon to take my CPU and MOBO back for a 20% restocking fee, and then went to a opening day microcenter in Miami and got a 7800x3d for 314 and a b650 MAG tomahawk for 167 i ended up spending a little over 40 bucks to switch to AM5 and consider my self very damn lucky.
And when you consider the reviews for Arrow Lake intel has not learned a damn thing.
Also personal note from using a i5-13600k and a 7800x3d the temps in use aren't to different for me the idle for the I5 was lower but the in use was higher then the 7800x3d BUT the i5 felt like it was pushing way more head out of my case then then 7800x3d which i guess is the higher power draw? no idea.
Bottom line for me was spending half a grand on my cpu/mobo combo and having it start to fail within in a few months is ridicules. Also the 2nd hard market for all 13/14th gen CPUs is basically going to be gambling how many damaged CPUS are in the wild now? who's going to want to buy one??
That was a well-made video. I did learn a lot. And yet I found my self mesmerized threw the entire video listening every time you said degradation because you went back and forth between saying it correctly or saying degragation. I kept having to rewind to hear something important I missed after falling back into that rabbit hole of listening "was that a g or a d".
WoW not like i haven't seen this before, in my lifetime, you will be back.
12900k, basically the same CPU as 13700k but with ZERO issues 13th and 14th have, also same socket and would probably save $50. I run a 12900KS and it never skips a beat and still sits in the top 10-20 CPUs for gaming. and so you bumped into an AMD fan in the tech store.
🙂 yes ive seen it on sale a few times for only a little over $200 now sometimes, we love cores and threads in Afterburner 😊
Yeah, although I used laptop for my gaming and not gonna lie. I like the i7 14700HX it's not bad, but since this is a laptop CPU, the efficiency must be pretty fine.
Even still, eCores sucked on 12th gen.
@@griffin1366 E-cores in 12th gen, while not as fast as later iterations, still give you the ability to not even realize that a Windows Update is happening in the background. Something that I *do* notice on my 7800X3d system. (And before you ask, yes, separate OS and Game SSD's in both systems)
@@glenndoiron9317 Eh. Not just the speed but they were first generation. Had latency issues and if you disabled them, didn't give any cache back to the pCores like 13th/14th gen does.
11:38 From what I’ve read, Nvidia makes graphics cards for a tenth of the price of what they are sold at. They don’t care how affordable they are. They will pump as much as they can out of your wallet. To a point I agree, however they could give a far better product than what they’ve given and at a lower price and still make a good profit. They don’t care though, as long as they can still stay the highest performance and then charge harshly for it. I’m not sure what kind of profit margins a company needs in that industry. But making a graphics card for 35 bucks and then selling it for 350, there has to be a better deal they could give and still have great profits.
Shareholders… you are expected to constantly grow, always make MORE. Greed and stock prices and quarterly returns are ruining the industry.
There's also the problem that any consumer GPU is competing with corporate GPU for manufacturing allocation.
Nvidia doesn’t make graphics cards so you can just disregard this clown.
If you don't like it then make your own GPU.
It's the good old Apple way
I'd change that title to: "These Intel CPUs are worthless". Even if the current round of CPUs are not much of an improvement (AMD 's too) having two companies really competing is a very good thing for all of us.
I agree, but Intel must save themselves. Arrow Lake is not an upgrade, it's more a refresh. It regresses in many areas, particularly gaming. Intel needs to price the 285k (aka 15900k) the same or (even better) $50 less than the 14900k AND guarantee platform support an additional cpu generation. A small incentive for consumers to support them thru their transition.
It's Business 101 to understand, you must bring VALUE when you're sitting at the bottom. Intel's performance in the last few yrs from 13K cpus to 14k and now 15k is ridiculous. Their slow demise is self-inflicting.
AMD is competing. Not sure what Intel is doing.
Seeing the 13700k use 145 Watts, just to compete head-to-head with the 7800x3D that's using 65 Watts, is really unsettling. Performance be damned, but the Ryzen CPU is just so much more efficient, it's not even funny anymore. In Frames/Watt the Ryzen system really has no competition with the Intel one.
Great Work!!! thank you for the valuable insight. looking forward to seeing the full in use review.
If you want a cheap system now the 13700K, 12900k, 12700k, 13600k, and 12600k are great option. Especially if you are a small content creator
The 12700K is the GOAT i7.
The Price is INSANE. An i7 12th gen processor for $250. It's amazing.
The 12th gen yes. I would not risk it with 13th and 14th gen.
@@oxaile4021 Although I actually use i7 14700HX processor. It's not affected by the instability issue.
I'm not excusing intel's incompetence, but man.. Yall perpetuate internet hysteria like crazy.
Meanwhile an AM5 MB costs over $200, 16GB of DDR5 $100, and the cheapest AM5 CPU? over $200.
I'm buying a 12700k, MB, and 16GB DDR4 for $300. Why is AM5 still an overpriced platform?
I guess because it is not destroying itself like Intel counterpart?
@@kaputinkaputin i guess you missed the AMD CPUs exploding last year. Which Gamers Nexus proved Multiple times. the overwhelming majority of LGA 1700 intel owners have no problems. You're part of the hysteria.
Well, comparing cost of used Intel system to new AMD system ain't really a fair game, is it? 12700K costs ~220 USD, 16GB of good DDR4 costs ~50 bucks and you are not getting a good board that can actually sustain 12700K performance for $100 or less. The good boards start at around 150, and often go for $200 as well. So the difference is not anywhere as crazy as you portray it
@@Mr.Genesis sure it's because of AMD and not because of ASUS forcing insane VSOC settings?
Plus. on top of that, you have to factor in the cooling. AMD can be cooled by the cheapest coolers. I've run 16 core parts under $10 coolers without problems or performance loss. Good luck cooling 12700K with a cheap cooler
I am using my i9 13900k for many years without any issues. Strong and reliable.
Wouldn't change it.
same
You can't say "years" when it literally released 2 years ago.
@EirikXL okay, maybe you are right. Before that I used 12900 also without any issues. This video is purely click bait. Intel is doing very fine, especially in the field of content production. For gaming I have an AMD, so I am not fully committed to Intel.
@@EirikXL FYI 2 years would still be years
@@MachikoNoguchi-616 Literally yes, but in speech, "years" means "a really really long time", and in context of using a computer part for 2 years, it is not that long a time.
Great video, your efforts and effective communication skills are appreciated 👍
Thank you so much for this incredibly extensive and elaborate review! Subscribed!
You have such a great talent for digesting all the bits and pieces that the Internet has left out, making this my favourite CPU comparison/review of 2024!
Looking forward to your future comparisons and reviews of Arrow Lake / Panther Lake and Beyond, 20A, 18A and 14A.
My PC is mainly for gaming but I do other things from time to time.
I live in a basement suite in a house surrounded by trees so its always cool-cold. During the winter my PC literally is my space heater as I do not control the furnace. Its my GPU doing the heating though!
I've been lucky over the decades as to hardware failures, or lack there of. I run stability tests on this thing fairly frequently & it looks like I dodged the bullet yet again as to the microcode, so far.
Electricity is dirt cheap here so I dont much care about the power draw.
Having said that I'll probably go 9950X3D next build. I hear its a monster.
The thing is when you were comparing the I7 13700K VS the R7 7800x3D the Intel CPU had much less usage in all scenarios
More cores - less usage, cause those E-cores are not needed for gaming.
The 13700K won't die on you, 14th gen had even higher voltages than 13th because of the higher clock speeds, which made them degrade faster. For example my CPU had the max VID of 1.309V, giving it more longevity than other models with higher VID. If you really want to see dying CPUs, swap it to maybe a 13900K but more like a 14900K. Those beasts have way higher VIDs, making the overall avg voltage way higher for them. I got my 13700k on day1 (basically it's 2 years old now), never had a single issue except bad memory OC attempts.
I used to be a computer technician since the early 2ks - when i was a teenager. Me and my friends always went for AMD processors and ATI graphics cards for the cost-benefits. The difference in price is way higher than the difference in performance and technology. Not just that. They always seemed to last longer. Plus, we always had the impression Intel was more work oriented.
talking about 500w usage and having playing vampire survivors music in the background is just neat :D
I have a 13600K, z690 and 32gb 4000MHz ram. Best combo I ever had. I do rendering, gaming, sometimes for 12 hours straight. Never had stability issues. On the other hand, my old Ryzen 5600... well
It hurts watching you talk about what a steal those prices are, knowing what Micro Center bundles go for now.
Not anyone live near micro center, the nearest micro center to me is 2 hours away, with gas price right now, any penny I save from micro center gonna go straight pay for gas so I would save nothing in the end. That’s why I prefer 13th intel right now because they are currently best price to performance.
@@camdustin9164 for real though, its 3 hours for me though so I'd probably save money instead of breaking even lol.
@camdustin9164 They're at a Micro Center in the video. My post has nothing to do with your situation. Nor does it have anything to do with your poor decision to purchase Raptor Lake. I sell primarily 12400F, 5700X3D, and 7500F builds, with most still being Alder Lake.
Microcenter bundles come w crappy motherboards though. I've been looking at them recently.
@@drewnewby poor decisions for going Raptor Lake? You don’t even know what I do are why I’m going Raptor Lake. For Vivado (the software I use for work), my 13600kf crushes everything similar to its price. $230 when I got it and it faster than the 7700x when I tested it while being 40-50$ cheaper, it also game better and still easily cooled with a 30$ thermalright air cooler. In fact, the 9700x is still slower than my 13600kf when comes to running Vivado, though the gaming performance is virtually the same. I tried to switch to AMD yet the 13600kf manage to go up against next gen CPU and STILL hold the crown for price to overall performance. The result speak for itself.
One major problem I have with Intel is ethical. They're so fucking scummy as a company
My 14900k is for workstation purposes (LLVM compilation) and I actually love the fact that it's a space heater. I'm down in the basement and it will be a welcome addition to my home office this winter.
I built an am4 pc and my son built an Intel system. I played on his last night while he was at work. I was impressed with his system. I have a 5600x he's got an I5-11400f. Still love my amd system. I'll never go Intel.
kinda funny
10 years ago i had a AMD System and i said to myself i will never buy a AMD System again because of all the problems.
went in 2017 for a i7 7700K and in early 2022 to the i7 12700KF and i´m since then happy with it and yes i´m playing in 1080p with a RTX 4080
You ended buying AMD at the worst possible time.
The only time my family had an AMD CPU was before year 2000. I think it was a K5. It didn't go well and my father went back to Pentium lol.
I built my first own rig in 2015 and back then AMD had a terrible reputation so of course I went with an i5-4590 and later upgraded to an i7-4790.
Early this year I got a 10400 + B460 Aorus Pro AC combo from a friend for $59. The deal was so good there was no way I could say no to that, and now it's my current gaming system. I don't really play AAA games these days so I'm pretty confident that this rig will last me at least a few years more.
That said I might be interested in going with AMD next, assuming that they provide better value than Intel by the time I need the next build. I've only been using old CPUs since 2019 so it's quite a lot different from how most people build their PCs.
AM3 was crap, AM4 was good. They learned from the mistakes and fixed most of them on AM4.
@@thimblemunch24 K10-based AM3 CPU's like the Phenom II competed pretty well with Intel at the time... the problem being that they were competitive with later Core 2 CPU's and not the first i7's which were already released on the enthusiast socket 1366, so the bar was raised - otherwise I'd say it was the peak of dark ages AMD (2006-2016). AM3+ on the other hand (which carried the notorious FX CPUs) was a joke and even fell behind faster Phenom II X6's in some cases, and it only got worse later on when development for it was effectively abandoned after the release of the FX-8350 in 2012.
I had first gen ryzen, and it's the worse experience with a platform I've ever had, and I'm still bitter
26:47 you are not supposed to have any performance regressions with undervolting. Please do your due dillegence and turn off CEP before undervolting...
You can't get more performance out of a chip by taking away voltage. A max OC chip with as much voltage as your cooling solution can handle will always out perform an undervolted setup. Doesn't matter if the undervolted setup is 5% slower at 50% less power draw, max OC overvolt+ overclock always wins.
@@juice7661 My guy, his chip was running at like 4.7ghz all core p core. That's trash, when literally applying MCE would run them all at 5.3. VID at default is like 1.28V. No need to go higher than that unless your bin is total ass.
@@Greez1337 That's odd. My 14900k was running around 5.9GHz all P-core at 1.45v
I still remember this two-month period from November to December 2022, when the 13900K was the absolute king of CPUs. Released right when the 4090 was, it basically became what most people bought. 7000X3D had a rough launch, and it really seemed as if Arrow Lake was launched a year earlier like it was supposed to, Intel would be in a really good place right now.
13900K with tuned RAM is still king
@@griffin1366 I guess the thing with Intel is that it lets you game at *almost* 7800X3D levels while letting you do some actual productivity. Meanwhile, Arrow Lake decides "Hm, let's scrap that and instead make it even worse for games while giving basically zero productivity uplift, besides a better iGPU for video encoding." Considering that the instability issue is fixed, an i9-14900KS is looking like a better deal with every passing day. That's until 3D-Vcache no longer sacrifices productivity performance of course.
@@RobloxianXArrow Lake has an NPU.
@@RobloxianX But if you take a 7950X3D right now, you have better gaming performance, about equal production performance, and its capped at 160W vs the 14900KS' 320W in extreme profile (or 253W on performance).
There is also the matter that you can likely upgrade to the 11950X3D in a few years, which is cheaper than buying an entirely new platform...
14900KS and the 7950X3D are priced similarly, 650$
But the 14900K and the 7950X are a lot cheaper, with the 7800X3D closer to this pair, 450$
If you care about gaming and productivity, then the 7950X3D seems the smarter choice.
If you care about gaming, then the 7800X3D seems the smarter choice, because it also has an easy upgrade later.
And if you are after productivity, then the application is the deciding factor. 14900K or 7950X would both work, and again, the 7950X has an easy upgrade path in the future.
Even on price I see no reason to go intel as the market is currently.
First time viewer. I had low expectations but it really turned out to be really quite good! Congrats my man I hope you get to 1m subscribers someday!
Superb job there Vex investigating this deep, yet sad direction tech giant Intel has gone with. A company had held faith with for some time. I worked at an Intel site in 2016 and saw a lot of negatives there. Hopefully nice big cold buckets of water like this will wake somebodies there up for a better future ahead. Thanks for the good work.
27:40 14% lower temperatures? I'm sorry but that's not how temperature works. If you wanted to convert to a percentage, the closest to anything meaningful would be to use the Kelvin unit which has the absolute zero. In which case it's a 369 to 356 degrees drop, i.e. a 3.5% drop.
i got a 13700k a couple months after launch for my first system and it's always worked fine for me. Whole system feels super responsive no matter what i throw at it. P+E cores are what made me go intel. Was pretty disappointed to hear about the degradation and voltage problems but somehow i feel as though my processor wasn't affected
my 12700 runs like a champ, you dont have to worry just undercloack bit plus undervolt
Same. But I always updated my BIOS and changed motherboard settings.
7800x3d doing a better job with less than half the power and without being a defective POS.
the problem with these intels was never performance. it's just literally everything else.
My 12700K doesn't suffer from these flaws, it's half the wattage of a 13700K while gaming. Definetly those 16 cores are very power hungry and scheduling issues destroy that CPU's efficency.
I have a 12900K, and I love this CPU. I was looking at 13700K, but in the end, I did the right thing. Nice video, mate.
you cool dude bruh!! solid.... i do construction as well and im being a gamer all my life like you ... i build my own PCs... and i wish i started a channel like you but props to you and keep it up tho.... lets find out if that 13700k fails down the line for us viewers
You need a more expensive motherboard because it must have good VRMs, you need a more expensive cooler to handle the heat and you will spend more money long term on electricity, but that's something that almost no one considers at the time of purchase
@@xTRTSCx Don't forget more expensive 7200mhz DDR5 and once again single generation mb platform.
Limiting it to 125W is perfectly fine, especially for gaming. Productivity is still up there too.
125W x 4 hours a day at $0.20c per kW/h is only $36.53 a year.
7800X3D is equivalent to $21.92 a year.
8:23 notice how an identical cooler is able to keep the 145W Intel CPU at 63C whereas the AMD CPU is hitting 89C from a mere 66W load. So you actually need a better cooler with the lower power AMD x3D CPU.
@@longdang2681 Notice how Vex himself said that the temperatures aren't directly comparable and that installing a higher power cooler on the 7800X3D would do nothing to lower them? Not that it matters, since it's not like it ever thermal throttles.
@@HunterTracks Doesn't change the fact that you don't need an more expensive cooler for the Intel system versus AMD x3D. It's flawed logic to immediately assume that a higher wattage CPU will need more cooling capacity(this is only true if you are comparing CPUs with similar thermal transfer ability). Even if the numbers aren't directly comparable, 26C difference is still quite big for the 12% performance increase. It's no secret that x3D chips don't transfer thermal energy as well as regular chips.
Intel’s great been using for over 12 years had zero issues and massive performance compared to my AMD rigs.
I've heard that fallacy before. No, you did not have "zero issues" in 12 years. You just didn't blame it on intel when you had an issue.
@@toncica been running intel cpus for the latest 7 years, not a single issue.
Same here since the Q6600 days.
I did have a 5800X3D but I had audio crackling and Windows ran exceptionally slow on the same NVMe I use currently on my 13900k.
I reinstalled Windows 5 times, used different driver versions. I tried everything.
@@griffin1366 i have a 5800x3d, absolutely zero problems. and i even run it undervolted so it can peg to its max clock speed of 4.4ghz even at all core full load, all with a reasonable 105w tdp.
that said, i never had problems with intel cpus either. neither of the brands ever gave me much issue via the cpus actually. and i started way back then with an intel 486 dx4 100mhz.
"massive performance" as in?
this cpu generation is the most haggard shit i have ever had to tune, it starts with getting the contact frame at the right tension because otherwise it does not get stable with any ram speed you throw at it so get used to unmounting, remounting 3 4 5 6 times, then find the sweetspot voltages because otherwise your ram will not work either. what are those sweetspots you ask? who the fuck knows, every cpu is different.
my last 14900kf could boot my 2x24 8200mhz c38 kit on max trefi and run it 9hour karhu stable after fiddling for 4 days with it but luckily intel can't build a cpu that doesn't melt itself so it degraded on stock voltage in 8 months to the point that it couldn't even do 5,5 allcore anymore and after switching to a new 14900kf i got a dud that can't even do 7000 stable.
after all this i couldn't even be bothered and put the ram to 6000 c28, threw in some buildzoid timings and called it a day.
the most horrible experience with a cpu generation i ever had in my whole life.
sounds like a skill issue
Great to see a fair and unbiased video! My 14700k has been a great gaming CPU, I'm at 4K and I get better 0.1% lows than a lot of people with 7800x3d in the same games. Also very efficient power draw in low loads thanks to the efficiency cores. Never goes above 81C either.
I’ve had this 13700k for about a year now. No issues, I love it. I live in Michigan and it’s cold half year round so I got no issue with the heat either lol.
100% of them failing is nonsense.
Average FPS is not a good indicator of CPU performance. 1% lows is probably going to show a more significant difference.
Also there are definitely some games that are CPU bound at 4k. Tarkov is a good example where x3D CPUs are getting 15-20% higher performance.
Losing Performance every bios update doesn't really scream "it's equally good" to me. For anyone that has high energy costs the Intel CPU is not worth it at all.
I wish you the greatest of luck! 🙏Personally I've had to deal with a broken CPU before, and it's not fun. Bought a Ryzen 5 3600 in 2020, but the system always had crashing issues. It was extremely hard to isolate this issue. I first RMA'd the motherboard, then upgraded the RAM. Did countless Windows reinstalls to no avail. Turned on/off boosting and PBO, tried ECO mode, RAM at 2333 MT/s, undervolt etc.. The issues continued once I was making the switch to Linux. I finally switched the CPUs from both my AM4 systems.. and the crashing and instability continued but now in the other system. At this point the warranty had already expired unfortunately. 😭
I LOVED THIS VIDEO... big job but very well done!!! intels ok when it works but temps and power usage kill the platform for me on anything higher then a i3 12100 or i5 12400 :)
Got a 14600K recently at a decent price, applied the latest BIOS update and undervolted it. Runs nice and cool. I don't game much but it seems perfectly fine for that.
At my local Microcenter in Brooklyn the AMD cpu section is always full of people while the Intel section is pretty barren. That is what happens when stock buybacks and paying dividends are more important to you than reinvesting in your core business is.
Another faster, faster, faster hyper maniac discussiion ...
No matter how fast a CPU you get - next week there is new one even faster on the market.
You are cannon fodder for the manufacturers of CPU's and video cards ...
I have a 14700k, powered by a 900W power supply. I fired it up with my Deep Cool cooler, and it shot to 100C in a flash, and I realized it was a space heater, not a CPU. I added a "Bending Correct" bracket, and, like you, upgraded to a Deep Cool AK620, but I added a third fan, and I used liquid metal for paste. At this point, I've done all the microcode updates, and I have it undervolted 0.195V (yes, I got lucky got a great chip), and I lowered the PCore and ECore ratios to 54 and 37 (from 56 and 43), and now it peaks at 78C. Hopefully that will be cool enough that it will last a few years. Do I wish I had purchased AM5? Damn right I do. As for water cooling, I've heard that people with water coolers have been much, much more likely to end up with CPU failure than those with air coolers, presumably because it keeps the CPU cooler, encouraging it to run faster, and apply more volts.
what kind of workload were you doing to shoot up to 100C so quickly? or were you benchmarking it?
@@cheekyjebus5559 Yes, I was benchmarking it. When I build a new computer, that's always the first thing I do. I don't do it to compare speed, but rather to make sure that, even in the worst case, my cooling and fan settings are adequate to assure that things don't get too hot. Then I usually tune things a little. This time I made a lot more extreme changes.
I acted fast, and after that first hour, I have never again attempted to operate it at it's "rated" speed, but have always operated it with both excellent cooling, and significantly underclocked and undervolted. I'm optimistic that my 14700K will have a long and happy life, but I can see how others might have been blissfully unaware of the dangers, and ended up with a cooked CPU. I think Intel sold this chip with default settings that were higher than they should have, and that the default settings were essentially overclocked. Had they sold it with lower settings, it wouldn't have been as fast, but it would have been safer, and the CPUs would have had a normal life.
Over many years, I have worked with probably 100-150 Cpus, some of which I have run for 25 years, I have only had 2 CPUs fail. A not particularly well designed Cyrix cpu ran hot from the start, and failed after about six years, which didn't surprise me at all. An Intel Q9650 failed when it was about 13 years old, but I viewed that as random luck. CPUs should NEVER be failing at the rates these 14700K and 14900K chips have been failing.
Amigo, just set a static voltage. 5.4ghz all core p core at 1.27V should be easy. Old ways are the best ways, and no one on techtube aside from GoG or Frame chasers gets any exposure on how to actually have tuned an intel rig.
You hit the nail in the head; it's just hard to live with recent intel cpu.
I had to work on a 12700k pc for a few days recently and the constant fan whining, ~90°C operation and pc screaming each time you load a big file or apply a filter was so distracting.
Let me guess, motherboard OC with 4096 watts power limit?
That happened to me lmao.
I disabled that nonsense and is now 67 C and 150 watts max.
@@saricubra2867 not even that, I think the 'problem' was just that it was air cooled😅
@@25myma Because you were overclocking it without realizing or maybe had an AMD stock cooler style of fan.
The 12700K is faster than a 2nd gen 32 core Threadripper (2990WX) overall 👀
I'm also one to update my BIOS, or UEFI, and its still scary. I know what to do and everything, and I've done it numerous times already, but add on the anxiety of attempting to update your BIOS and not be able to afford having a UPS.
Your logic is sound my man. That's why I am a Fanboi. Like the posts before me I got the bargain on the 12th gen ( 12700 KF ) for around $117 and the the Gigabyte board ( B760M ) for a little more & 32 gig memory. It is intended to be a middling gaming PC with more a focus on productivity. My dilemma is the same as yours, Cooling ! Even though it is not as crucial on the 12th gen I wish to make the sucker stable and reliable for the long term. I am coming off of a 6th gen Intel i5 and have had good perf from it, although it was not really used for gaming . Party on Garth !
This is a really fantastic video, thanks for all the work!
I bought into the 13700K pretty much right when it launched and it served me extremely well for ~2 years until about 2 months ago when I started to notice degradation, I ended up building an AMD rig with a 9700X and it's fine, but I also sent the 13700K in to Intel and got a new RMA 13700K, so I now have 2 systems up and running. The 13700K is a beast, I game a lot and I also work as a video/motion graphics producer, it's one of the best of all worlds.
My Z790 is an Aorus board similar to yours and quite frankly I just ignore the Intel default spec stuff and I don't find the voltages to be any more extreme and sometimes they're less extreme which is odd.
Anyway I would keep playing around with it and also just make sure to keep it cool lol, DeepCool 360 AIO or Arctic FTW.
Intel's biggest mistake was selling overclocked "out-of-the box" CPUs. I have been doing this for 20 years plus, there has always been an understanding that when you OC a CPU you take a big risk. It is beyond baffling to me that Intel was so overconfident that they they thought overclocking out-of-the box was a good idea.
I have a 14900K, the first thing I did to it was downclock to 5.4 Ghz... The two priority cores still boost to 5.7 when needed and I get pretty close to the perf I'd get in game with 5.7 on all P cores.... The CPU is slightly undervolted and I have not seeing it go above 1.32v or so
And that's why I ordered an 14700 non K variant. Way more efficient just a little undervolt and it's perfect and of course a snappy AIO.