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As someone who grew up under the same parenting style but for me it's my mom who was always trying to control everything in my life even if her way led to good results but i am still at the age of 28 don't feel like i have my own self. Thank you for the vid it's really insightful and it helped me learn something new about myself. We all hope to find the us that we lost one day. Keep up the good work girl you're doing great 👍
eyy as someone who enjoy Sunday, this is actually feels more objective for me than how Sunday fans and haters tend to analyze his character. they either want him dead during his fall or forget altogether that before he was set on controlling the entire penacony, he's practicing order on Robin first. imo if you have mixed feelings about him, that means his villain role is working!
The whole point of his morality is being someone who was a villain who fell from his untouched throne where trivial emotions and concepts such as freedom werent important as long everyone was happy and now has to see the world as a normal person and experience friendship and problems where his secluted sanctuary guided by the dream master didnt let him to
That's what makes him a good villain. He's a good guy, is scared of the real world (mentions now that he has no control everything it's scary to him), has great ambitious ideals, and wants everything to do if it means saving his world. Problem is, he fails at execution since he took the strong protecting the weak too seriously. As someone who also suffered from OCD I can totally understand him. You're scared to lose that person so you'll do anything to have them safe and under your wings but he doesn't understand that Robin walked this despite knowing the dangers and no amount of protection or anything else will stray her away from it.
Yeah! But that is *precisely* how he's supposed to feel. He's a complex conflicted character who can't just be described as good or bad, but we just don't really see his journey, so unless you dive deep into reading his lore, you won't really like him that much. But after doing that he's my favourite character now. He feels alive.
this for sure^^^ his character is made to make you feel conflicted, its all intentional- the fact that emamae feels so strongly is literally evidence of this fact lol
Thank you for being a voice of rationality here. I see so many mischaracterisations of Sunday because people don't know his lore but also the lore of whole Penacony. It all comes together.
Believe me, you're talking to the person who remade the star rail wiki from scratch. I've read almost everything there is to read. I cannot disentangle him from my own experiences, and even if I could I don't think there would be much change. But I do agree - he feels very alive and real, moreso than most other characters in the game so far. They truly put a lot of work into his arc, and I'm excited to see where this goes next.
9:22 I'd argue that Sunday was entirely aware that Robin would lose her ability to sing if his plans succeeded. He definitely knew that her voice was a blessing of the Harmony, and that taking away Harmony means taking away its blessings. The way he reacted to her singing in the final battle against The Embryo of Philosophy further leads me to believe that he was fully aware of what she would have lost in Ena's dream. Though, I don't doubt that he had some kind of plan to give her a *new* voice with the power of the Order, permanently muting his sister is far out of character for him.
Or is it? He was always a hypocrite first and foremost. I can imagine His Assholery just ignoring that little facet of his little plan… I still like him, but he’s an S-rank bellend.
@@emberthecatgirl8796 it's possible that he believes by doing so, he'd free her from the expectations of being a famous singer. In a sense, 'putting her in a cage for her own good'
I hated him the whole time during the quests but at the end he got redeemed somewhat because he did have this cathartic experience and it made him change (that's where this game deviates from life...). He is only starting that process but he faced who he was and tried to change and listened to the Qs life gave him. So now he's okay... Especially as he was groomed to be the way he was, so it was not 100% him being a horrible person. But yeah, I wanted to punch him in the face a million times and it made it worse that everybody was in love with him...
10:23 I do love how sunday later seems to recognise how limited his perspective is in how robin's dream is an alternate choice on the charmony dove scenario where he considered other options I like him for this, he recognizes his own hypocrisy but is incapable of going against it until much later.
I think the latest quest was really a brilliant way to progress his Arc, I belive we will see him open up his mind much more during the next trailblazing journeys. As someone who shares these weird feelings towards Sunday, I'm really excited to see how they expand his character next.
I guess that having arguments on twitter is kinda like playing on Active Time Battle mode. Where you start your response and hope you can finish posting it all before the other dude starts responding to an incomplete point which completely derails the discussion
I suppose the reason most people are more willing to forgive and accept Sunday is because he’s a fictional character. Most players haven’t had the displeasure of living with someone like Sunday for most of their lives. All they see is a character who is very obviously mislead and in desperate need of therapy. And that’s okay. It’s okay to like a morally complex and flawed character. And it’s also okay to be repulsed by that character if said character has too many similarities to a person you know and has hurt you.
That and there's a good bit of distance between reality and what arguably is one Sunday's biggest crimes- bringing the Order to Penacony. Not a lot of players really have the experience of being mystically granted their heart's desires through an eternal dream (hopefully none). But the small stuff? Far more relatable even if I can clearly see how he came to his conclusions in what he does.
As someone who has anxiety, I can relate with him. I can understand living with person us, me and him, is difficult and probably traumatic for some people. I also agree with his plan, living in eternal dream, because live in real world is tiring. So if it happened to me, I wouldn't be mad at him. Isn't this the point of Penacony? People go to there for escapism, although not all wants eternal escapism. But I can understand many or most people want their free will. This is exactly Sunday's problem, he didn't ask. If he asked and people agreed, there would be no problem.
No psycho-analysis required, the #1 reason people are willing to forgive and accept Sunday is because they find him attractive lol. Look up the reaction to Wade Wilson, he's not a fictional character.
Im so proud of you Ema. It needs a lot of bravery to tell the internet what you experienced. And I hope the best for you! Also, your words in the end were so inspiring. I'm happy to have found you.
I have to pause the video here at 14:42 to comment on something that I think is...somewhat profound that you said, but that I think lends to Sunday's character. His behavior always has an "excuse", this is certainly true, but I think "excuse" is almost lacking, in psychology it's important to recognize that everyone's perspective makes sense to them. Sundays actions are a sort of natural consequence of his circumstances, even if we believe we may have done differently if we were in his circumstances, his actions do make sense, despite how uncomfortable they make make us, because his circumstances are certainly uncomfortable as well. For example Sundays stifling and protection of Robin, is very normal considering his past of losing his family and Robin being his only family left, and her near death experience, the fear of loosing the most important person would make most people treat Robin the way Sunday did, you only need to see how parents treat their children to see just how normal a reaction it is. Now, normal doesn't mean good, but just because a treatment isn't good, doesn't mean it's malicious, which I don't think Sunday is malicious. Even looking for vulnerable traumatic information on Aventurine, is understandable in the circumstances that Adventurine is the threat Sunday believes him to be.
Going to add comments as I progress through the video because I do think it's interesting. I do think we run into a culturally difficult problem when it comes to abuse, abusers and victims. I think an interesting conversation to be had for example when you mentioned no one brings up the impact that sunday had on his victims, is likely not because people haven't been in similar positions as Robin or adventurine, as yourself have, but rather the strength that both Robin and Adventurine posses. Robin in particular embodies emotional and mental strength fantastically. People probably don't talk about it because Robin doesn't talk about it, and why would she? Robin, has had traumatic experiences, been treated poorly, but has managed to heal through those things, especially with the help of the express crew, but mostly because of her own compassion. Her compassion to be able to love Sunday regardless of how he had treated her, and her confidence that she knows that she is right and he is wrong, shows just how much stronger of a person she is than her brother, in Penacony, it's not Sunday who saves and protects Robin, but Robin that saves and Protects Sunday. That compassion that Robin possesses is because she knows true humility, is is the case with many healed individuals with Trauma, and her love for her family is stronger than any harm done to her.
I think it could be the case that a portion of your discomfort/dislike of Sunday like you mentioned is tied to your own experiences with your father. I could especially see it being uncomfortable if you see Robin forgiving and loving Sunday, if you haven't maybe exactly parsed through all those feelings with your father or you did and came to a different conclusion of your relationship with him. That is to say, would you feel different about Sunday, if he "got what he deserved" if Robin maybe instead of embracing her brother despite his flaws and treatment of her, rejected him. Not saying you would, but as someone who doesn't know your story or history, I am curious about what you might be experiencing, or what would need to happen to Sunday, for your discomfort to fade. I know some of my comments may have come off as aggressive but that is certainly not my intention.
@@Titanhart33 This is important what you bring up here, because of the contrast of Robin's and Sunday's influences. Robin was travelling and meeting with people, Sunday was the one who got caged and he was just walking in circles (he says it himself). He didn't have any other perspective as he was robbed of it, being a puppet of Order. Now he finally can gain this perspective for himself and there is a good chance that, with the help of the Express, he will finally spread his wings and become who he was supposed to be from the beginning
@@Titanhart33i’ve also had trauma that sunday brings up feelings over. not the same experiences as this person but still significant. i like your points here, and i also think personally that i wouldn’t like sunday unless he became a fully different character. i recognize that’s because of my trauma. he’s well written and is an excellent character, but my discomfort with him won’t fade, just because of him being essentially a character-shaped symbol of a lot of what has happened to me. and i’m okay with that! i absolutely encourage others to like him and respect his place in the story, but i just can’t like him due to my own experiences in life. again, my situation is different than ema mae’s, but i wanted to share my thoughts on your comment
also, though robin and Sunday were both raised by Gopher Wood, they still held opposing beliefs. It atleast implies that Sunday, and Robin were raised differently (nature vs. nurture) which is why Sunday was so easy to emotionally blackmail/indoctrinate: because of his sensitive, and empathetic nature. Further creating his cognitive biases of the world, enforced by the order's meta narrative
It is kind of wild knowing that a content creator I respect a lot has had similar struggles to myself. Thanks for sharing this more sensitive and genuine side of the mask. Take care of yourself Ema and everyone else who is reading this. Choice is the one thing everyone deserves to have. And it should never be taken from you.
Before I begin with what essentially ended up becoming my Sunday thesis I want to say Hi @iamemamae, i'm a big fan of your videos, particularly your theories and the work that goes into them. This is quite a long response to your video but I hope you will read it all the same. If you do, thank you for your time :) I find that you have fundamentally misunderstood Sunday's motivations, and even his actions, to some extent. I think 10:20 is a good place to start: Sunday and Robin DID fix the wing -- they nursed the bird to perfect health as it was weak and frail besides, only letting it free after. And yet, despite all these efforts, the bird tried and tried to fly, until it ultimately crashed to its demise -- its wings shattered and this story ending where it began. But perhaps the phrase "fix the wing" was meant metaphorically; indeed, you use Nous's ascension as an example to illustrate that the world of HSR is not limited in the way ours is. Perhaps with Abilities from the Paths, they could've imparted the bird with a way to succeed 100% of the time. Unfortunately, that too misses the point: You see, this story about a Charmony Dove isn't about a single bird at all, whether that bird be an actual bird, or Robin, or any specific creature or individual. This story is an allegory for our societal structure and its expectations -- of survivorship bias and those who fall through its cracks. The Charmony dove crashed to its death because flight was what was expected of it by virtue of being a bird. Similarly, we expect that everyone should be able to drive, to pass their classes and graduate High School or College, or to find a job, a partner -- what we call life. Those who fail to meet these expectations (of which we tie our self worth to as Sunday also mentions -- more on that later) which we take for granted are the birds that crash down to their demise: This is the who Sunday refers to when he talks about the Weak. The Strong, naturally, are the "Heroes" (Sunday's word) we play as; those privileged with abilities that allow them to comfortably meet the expectations of Flight, so to speak. So yes, perhaps Sunday and Robin -- as the Strong to the Dove's Weak -- could've found a way to save the creature from crashing to its death, but it wouldn't change the reality that countless others of the Weak will crash under the shadow of the Strong. It is a reactive solution to a problem that requires a proactive one; think of it in terms of the Give a Man a Fish adage. Of course, this is but the first quandary Sunday presents us with that informs his philosophy; it is only after all 3 stories have happened that he comes to the realizations I've touched on, of which expand on and add more to his Philosophy, so let's move on to the next one. The next Story sees Sunday as Bronze Melodia -- a role of which he serves as part of the Harmony (Oak Family) in which he listens to the problems and vexations of the Dreamscape residents to provide them with guidance. He highlights specifically his meeting with an illegal stowaway who sacrificed everything -- including selling his two sons to slavery so they could at least eat-- and yet must face persecution from the Bloodhound Family. Sunday, hoping to "fix the wing", wields his influence from his position in the Harmony to call off the members of the Bloodhound Family. We can observe definitive proof of the link between the first dilemma and this current one in Sunday's Character Story II which (I will use ellipses to condense the message) reads: "To my dearest sister... It's probably for the best that you're not coming back right now. Penacony has changed... Entrepreneurs have imposed extremely unreasonable working hours to monopolize the industry, forcing workers in the Dreamscape to work twelve-hour shifts before they can take a break - only to receive meager paychecks in return... Recently, a stowaway approached me for help, explaining that he had spent everything he had just to stay on Penacony, only to be discovered by the Bloodhound Family. He assured me that he would repay all his debts later, which is why I asked the Bloodhound Family to show him some leniency. However, every time I consider how many others like him there are on Penacony, I can't help but wonder if everyone has the opportunity to make the right choices." Indeed, you can see here Sunday beginning to realize that his ability to help with his power and influence in the Harmony is but a reactive solution, and many Doves will still crash to their demise, so to speak. But as you might recall, the story of the stowaway doesn't end here, as after some time Sunday meets this Stowaway once again, after he was able to make make of himself a successful entrepreneur. However, the man ends up arrested nonetheless, as it turns out he is guilty of attempting to usurp the Head of the Alfalfa family. Sunday was finally able to "save the Charmony Dove", but unfortunately, humans are not doves. The expectations we cast on each other as a society are intertwined with our Human consciousness, which Sunday criticizes as an illusion -- "a cage known as "self-worth". People lured in by this illusion, make mistakes, yet still ask that external influences bear the burden. When one mistake after the next permeates the masses, they become impossible to trace... Thus, the amassing of these individual cages culminate to form a prison, a place dictated only by the rule of "survival of the fittest." (Sunday then champions the Order as the antithesis to this law of Nature, which might lead you to believe he servers Order, but Order is mere a piece of the puzzle that is his answer to the Human Nature problem, I'll expand on this at the end.) When Sunday asks the now arrested stowaway "What of your children?" The man replies: "What children?. This eats at the Bronze Melodia, as in trying to do a good deed aligned with the Harmony, he was lied to and manipulated in what culminated in his mind as a bad deed instead. But the reason he shares to us this story isn't to tell us to not trust in people or to never help anyone because they might be liars; it's to inform the former quote about "survival of the fittest". The importance doesn't lie in the man lying, it lies in the reason why he lied: Human expectations define our self-worth and inform our desires and through that culminates adversity, and because of that adversity, discord foments between our fellow Man, and the Harmony fails. To fully expand on this point, let's move on to the final story Sunday shares with us. (1/2)
(2/2) In this final story, we see Sunday presented with a letter from Robin by courtesy of Gopher Wood, containing innocent trivialities, but informing him of where she is touring: Kasbelina-VIII. Gopher Wood informs Sunday that Robin omitted the fact that she was shot by a stray bullet, and that she specifically chose to tour in Kasbelina-VIII because of the war. She wishes to spread the word of the Harmony and save the lives of that planet. Many come away from this thinking the point of this story is that it motivates Sunday to want to cage his sister like the Charmony Dove, but i hope you've come to understand that Sunday at this point is beyond such a reactive response. You would be forgiven for interpreting the final choice Sunday presents as evidence of the former, but the way he delivers it and how it is phrased on the screen show that this is an abstract choice too. Sunday doesn't ask "would you stop Robin" but rather asks "Would you still support Robin's journey on the path of Harmony?" caveating this question as not a real choice he had to make, but a figment of imagination, a haunting nightmare. This is all key word choice as the screens also show: "Would you support Robin on her journey" and "Stop Robin from going on her journey" Given the wording and caveating, these choices are really about Sunday's regrets of either not staying with his sister under the path of Harmony or not telling her about his turn away from it and not trying to convince her to join him. None of these could ever realistically happen; Sunday is completely disillusioned with the Harmony and its failings, and Robin is so committed to her path that she is willing to take bullets for her ideals. This circles back to why Sunday chose to tell us this story. As shown in a previous quote, Sunday sees our current broken system as a cage, and sees his solution as Freedom (7 rest days, more on that soon.). Robin being shot trying to do good with the Harmony shows Sunday yet another failing of the path, and THAT is the reason he chose this final story. This isn't just me extrapolating -- here is the direct quote: " I share this in meager hope that you will understand the Harmony's limitations and predicament. As grandiose as "the Strong defending the Weak" sounds, many times, it is nothing more than wishful thinking." Indeed, almost losing his sister due to the flaws of the Harmony is the final revelation that informs his Philosophy; you can't just "fix the wing." Human discord will grow so strong that it'll inevitably culminate in war and murder. (Small side-track but still relevant to one of your claims: the fact that Sunday didn't even know where she was before this letter and similar letters in his character stories tells me he isn't her manager forcing this on her. in fact, as you see, Robin specifically chose to tour there herself, and did so precisely because war has broken out in that planet, another fact Sunday was unaware of before the Dreammaster told him.) What if we could eliminate this very adversity that leads Humanity to lie, cheat, steal, sacrifice and murder one another? Fulfil everyone's desires -- would that put an end to a world where people have to suffer? If you could come up with a plan to truly put an end to Human suffering; murder, to war, to genocide, to capitalistic abuse, to starvation -- would you not feel obligated to do it? while you worry over if everyone will approve people are dying, starving, and suffering every single day. If a God exists that could , in all their power, solve these problems, would you not look upon them in contempt for allowing the senseless pain to go on? Sunday's answer to the spirit of these questions -- his proactive solution to the philosophical problem of Human Nature-- is to create a God. One that he knows for sure will bring about the end of all suffering he wishes to see through. One that will bring about true freedom in his eyes: a life where people are free from the law where the strong prey on the weak. He attempts to help illustrate this with an example -- the rest days we call weekends. In a weekend, you are free to pursue your passions and live happily, free from the adversity the expectations found in work or school. He says that in weekends "Some gaze at reverence at the stars, pouring their whole beings into calculating the distance between us and the isolated world of Pegana. Meanwhile some seek refuge in quiet corners, holding one another, unencumbered by the chains of unwelcome obligations." We can gleam from this quote that, aside from not giving a choice to the people about entering his envisioned world, he will not strip people of all free will like the Order, but rather specifically the choice that will be taken away is the one between running from, or tackling adversity head on, to potentially reap the rewards overcoming it grants. (I think this is the discussion people should be having regarding this story and Sunday, about whether or not Adversity is so crucial to the human experience -- the "self" -- as firefly puts it, that you cannot simply get rid of it, regardless of the bloody and cruel world it allows to exist.) When Sunday says that 7 rest days is the ideal system, he doesn't mean it literally, as that would carry with it the consequences not working or studying would have on our current system, he just aims to illustrated what a world without adversity might FEEL like. The God Sunday chooses for his plan is not Ena the Order -- no, Ena, like our little charmony dove, is destined to fail, its path doomed to be consumed by the Harmony, and the Harmony is too limited to address the plight of Penacony and Sunday's vision. To ensure that his vision for peace is realized "The cost is minute, merely a personal... and eternal sacrifice. If this paradise is to be maintained for everyone, someone must remain trapped in solitary wakening, until the end of the cosmos." He resolves to do it himself; he usurps Septimus, Emanator of the Harmony, in hopes to combine such power with the Order. The boss description reads: "Using the Harmonious Choir as a foundation, the power of Order and Harmony intertwine to form the shell of an egg, within which the newborn god slumbers." Sunday was about to create seemingly a new path, founded upon, but free from the limitations of both the Order and the Harmony. Except for, you know, the fact that it'll all take place in a dream. None of it is "real". Or is it? What is "reality?" Sunday seems to think it is Nature: survival of the fittest. Indeed, society, laws, relationships -- these things are only as real as we want them to be. And yet, these are the things are very lives are built on. And in that sense, is it really all that different from a dream? And thats the end of my Yapfest. I put much more effort into this than I expected to but I really respect your theory videos and all the effort that goes into parsing the game's lore and info and the critical thinking that it requires (it reminds me of the old Game Theory days). As a result I figured you'd be receptive to a message like this, also done in the spirit of getting this game right and meeting it where it is at. Sunday is my favorite character (2.Jingyuan and 3.Seele) and I weep inside when I see him --not necessarily misrepresented-- but evaluated without the full picture. My purpose in writing this wasn't to make you or anyone like the character, but just to meet him where he is at: A (progressive) Philosopher King. If you (or anyone) read all the way here I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to my rambling :) Please, do let me know your thoughts. (2/2)
@@PhantomRAQ50 holy, thank you so much for ur analysis on Sunday!! U put everything that I thought abt him so perfectly its kinda scary haha As someone who also loves to overthink abt these 'Charmony doves', Sunday's char speaks to me so much. He contemplates abt the societal fate between Strong and Weak. How there will always be a disharmony between them and stemming from his empathetic nature (as shown from childhood flashback) he truly wanted to do smth to save these ppl. Yet he was also a victim to abuse nd manipulation that he himself was blinded by such a narrow view implanted to him by Gopher. Robin was able to widen her views and mind, yet Sunday continued to grew only inside the controlled capacity allowed by Gopher. He's just so damn compelling that it makes me regard him as a char so lovingly
@@bubblesparks Thanks for taking the time to read, and I am glad to hear it resonated with you. :) I definitely have to go back and analyze his scenes with Gopher Wood too before I have a strong opinion on the dynamic. Sunday seemingly used him and the order too, choosing to usurp the revival of Ena for the birth of his own Philosophy. I also noticed a completely messed up the copy pasting and it resulted in half of the comment submitting twice. I went ahead and fixed that, but apologies if that caused any confusion.
I am just glad to find comments like yours that really take the time to understand the full nuance of Sunday and also don't manage to misinterpret what he says (thinking about that old Sunday eugenics thread on Twitter someone went off on...). Robin also pretty much implies/states that she and Sunday were straight up taught different things. Gopher Wood literally saw their outlooks on life and took advantage of Sunday's already more sensitive/fragile (weak-) viewpoint and ran with it. When we find his notebook, she says she knows it's his because it's his handwriting but she doesn't recognize any of those scriptures/hymns at all. So Sunday was being trained gradually away from Robin. People somehow seem to think "why did Sunday turn out that way" etc. Also I just appreciate seeing someone who recognizes that he's not controlling and manipulative of Robin. That really, the only time he seems to have for sure done anything was when he trapped her in the dream in the current story, but she was *there* so unless he found some way to get her back off planet during what she might have believed was a normal celebratory event... it would be hard for him to get around this. So many people saw him dust off her halo in her demo and were like "ah yes, the sis con who is overbearing" and it is like no I literally can't keep reading 😭😩
Hoooo boy! I didnt think my early diagnosis OCD vs OCPD scare would come back to me in an HSR video of all places. I'll be real -- i've re-written this comment so many times. So many tangents and paragraphs about how Sunday's suit ritual seemed more an expression of perfectionism than a ritualistic compulsion done for the sake of distracting some underlying anxiety. So three cents from the OCD haver: - people with OCD haaaaaate addressing their compulsions. At best, they're embarrassing; at their worst, people harm or neglect themselves to the point of hospitalization to avoid falling into the obsessive thoughts. Sunday's speech to Aventurine about his suit ritual has always stuck out to me as his most blatant expression of an OCD symptom in the main story. An underwhelming, but typical method of exposition to the audience that feels lil like a "Yes! THIS guy. He's """OCD""" about his morning clothing routine". Mostly, because he explains his ritual as a boast against Aventurine -- a mark of pride, a ritual he does to PROVE his station as the Head of the Oak Family and imo, an explicit distinction of class laid at the feet of an known Avgin refugee. Not really on Sunday or writers (just yet), man was going through it and obsessions and the anxieties behind them take time to unravel. Seems we'll be seeing more of the man in Amphoreus, all the more time to see other compulsions manifest or see obsessions come up to the forefront in the main story. - Wonweek as a walking, talking intrusive thought made manifest. Expounding on Sunday's every possible doubt regardless if they are relevant or logical to worry in his current situation. Fantasies of breaking laws that your younger self naively set up in some illogical fashion from years ago -- beating yourself up all the while for essentially being a teenager given a lawless theme park to run. Impulsively (thinking of) eating dream ice cream and burgers despite knowing the consequences. Rehearsing and preparing for every imaginable outcome for a final farewell to a loved one. A giant showdown where Sunday gets to metaphorically beat their intrusive thoughts into some sorta coherent lesson that isnt a snarky Pepeshi -- a fight that only Sunday can truly resolve for himself. Sounds like a day long compulsive thought spiral to me -- one that conveniently distracts chicken wing boi from his underlying anxieties about being cast out of his home indefinitely by his own sister, at the IPC's "mercy". But who knows, maybe journaling in that empty diary of his will help him like I was prescribed to do when if i ever caught myself in the middle of a compulsion. TLDR; OCPD? Absolutely. It's more accurate to what people THINK OCD is about (perfectionism, cleanliness, etc.) and therefore most likely what hoyo was inadvertently going for. Actual OCD? I probly need to brush up some codexes but I'd love some main story rep
His suit ritual actually imposed to him but The Family. It's part of his learning, if I'm not wrong. He talked about that in his voice or where I forget.
@@akarifuyuki9763 I don't think the entire family goes by that ritual. In fact, there's at least one readable (2 actually, if I remember right) where they talk about how he's had to undergo treatment cause his compulsions got so intense.
Thank you so much for this comment. I'm still learning so much about OCPD and trying to understand it, and so it helps to know I'm at least on the right track with some of this. There's even more OCD than I thought though - from his suit ritual to Dreammaster and Robin actually talking about him having to get treatment at one point in some readables. I kinda wish they'd go into more detail with some of this, but they gave us enough information to explain some of what's going on.
I agree with your points. Sunday is a person who did terrible with mostly good intentions and that’s what I like about him. It makes him incredibly interesting and that’s the main reason why I really like him and he’s basically my favorite character.
Honestly, I was too caught up in the philosophy of what Sunday was doing to take a step back and think about what he left behind. This video was super interesting, thank you for putting in so much effort to make it.
gray-area people and characters like these are always such a difficult topic you have to be both sympathetic AND critical in a relatively balanced way and a lot of people, especially in recent years, REALLY struggle to juggle, there's greater tendencies to only pick one side to begin with and entirely discard anything else, or to attempt juggling multiple perspectives but inevitably drop the side(s) they least align with Sunday for me is the PERFECT portrayal of a character I both adore and despise with my whole chest, for differing and identical reasons, he's infuriating, yet I love him
Thank you for opening up about such a sensitive topic, seriously I can definitely relate to parts of what you mentioned, esp the part when you brought up fawn. Glad you were able to get out how you felt about this. So sad there won't be any more videos for 2025 tho o7 I always like watching your stuff But fr, can't wait to see what else you put out this year. Onward, to 20k!
after watching this video and hearing your personal experience, I really had to stop and think about how I felt about Sunday. I definitely agree, people should choose how they should live either way, no other person should choose how you should live except you. My family has such high expectations of me because of my brother and his goals and achievements. I see myself becoming more like the old Sunday, playing piano, forcing others into what I think is best, and just now noticing I feel awful. This video like ACTUALLY changed on the ways I see a person especially my parents. I use to think that they just the best for me, but growing up and getting older and realized how reality treats you ive definitely been becoming someone who I dont want to be. Sundays character is just so…. complex I don’t know how to describe it. But I hope he gets more character development, and that I will change.
Actually crying. It means so much to me to know people are gaining better understanding of theirself and their situation because of this. I really hope you find the space that belongs to you.
I didn't like him at first but Sunday grew on me. He reminds me of certain things. One. Catholic/Christian representation that's not all sanctimonious and stereotypical. Not all priests are perfect. I used to work for Catholic priests and Sunday reminds me of some of them. They get mad, frustrated, sad etc. Not all of them are old. Some priests are young too. In most media priests are depicted as old guys with glasses. Two. The colors he wears. He wears a lot of blue, white and gold. Those are the colors of the Jesuits. Latin for Society of Jesus. That's the order of Catholic priests I worked for. Three . The major sacrifices they make. They take a vow of celebacy. Meaning no romantic love or children of their own. I know a priest who got kicked out of his own family because his dad wanted him to continue the family's bloodline, name and business. Four . Combat. Some priests do serve in the Military and Police Force. Some of the priests I know are military chaplains and police chaplains. So Sunday being a supportive fighter unit makes sense.
@@justadude189 lol I had the same question. I kind of assumed it was both why they disliked him at first (maybe the negative parts of their religious upbringing) but also found some relatively accurate representation/parallels, which gave them a more personal understanding of Sunday as a character? (just guessing)
Sunday is a character I strongly relate to, because our mentality is very similar, as well as our ideas. Despite me seeing many flaws in his plan, I can't help but feel scared that in another world, if fate was just a bit more cruel to me, I could have become someone like him... Sunday is my favourite character, but I still have mixed feelings about him. I acknowledge his flaws, while seeing some of his ideas in my own thoughts
Mhm one of my closest friends also loves Sunday and we've had some really good talks about it. I also love hearing the others in the comments who relate to him explain why. I love that Hoyoverse created this character which means so many different things to so many different people. Sunday, no matter how you feel about him, is a masterpiece of fiction.
Sunday and Robin's relationship and them as individuals are some of my favorite parts of HSR, because I find them really fascinating and relatable to my own life. And this video made me, I don't wanna say appreciate, but made them even more interesting to me. And I'm glad you have benefited personally from this channel too. Wish you the best for the new year.
I am so sorry to hear that you went through all of that, and I hope that making this video has helped you understand yourself more. If not, thank you at least for helping me understand more of Sunday's character. I think it is interesting that Sunday is essentially, one of the few villains in Hoyoverse that lacks fundamental self-awareness. In the 2.2 story, or at least from what I understood of it, Sunday's idea of removing "choice" was based off the idea of determinism, that people's "self-worth" would cause them to make bad choices that continues the cycle of abuse. This mainly shown through the Sunday's little historical reenactment of Penacony before his first boss fight, and through Cocona's quest "Envision a Rose Forthcoming". In that quest, Cocona is made to believe by her parents and her coworkers that her worth as a person is determined by her commercial success, which leads to her throwing away her metaphorical "ego". I am guessing that from Sunday's point of view, the issue of self-choice was that, because of deterministic influence, victims invariably choose to continue being victims, and unlike you, would not be able to break out the cycle of abuse. So I find it thematically interesting that in his method of trying to break the cycle of abuse, Sunday ends up continuingit , and I also find it fitting that his 2.7 quest ended with him realizing that he need to understand the world (accidental pun) more in order to break the cycle. Sorry if this comment is a bit long-winded, I just found this interesting. Hope you feel better.
I like what you said about him lacking self-awareness. And that itself is kind of strange given how often he talks about self-reflection in 2.7. He doesn't understand what he did yet. I hope someday he does.
Obligated “One day, after dinner, while my younger sister and I were lounging about in Mr. Gopher Wood's yard, we spotted a fledgling Charmony Dove all on its own. That baby bird was tiny, it didn't even have all of its feathers, and it couldn't sing. When we found it, it was already on its last breath, having fallen into a shrub - probably abandoned by its parents. We decided to build a nest for it right there and then. However, thinking back, that winter was unusually cold, with fierce winds at night in the yard, not to mention the many poisonous bugs and wild beasts in the vicinity... It was clear that if we left the fledgling in the yard, it stood no chance of surviving until spring. So, I suggested we take it inside, place it on the shelf by the window, and asked the adults to fashion a cage for it. We decided that when it regained its strength enough to spread its wings, we would release it back into the wild. The tragic part - something that we'd never considered - was that this bird's fate had already been determined long before this moment... Its destiny was determined by our momentary whim. Now, I pass the power of choice to you all. Faced with this situation, what choice would you make? Stick to the original plan, and build a nest with soft net where the Charmony Dove fell? Or build a cage for it, and feed it, giving it the utmost care from within the warmth of a home? I eagerly await your answer.” comment Edit: On a slightly more serious note, great analysis! I never really think much about character analysis, simply because I never felt attached with them emotionally, or even philosophically. Their introductions into the story were done pretty dirty by Hoyo imo. It’s a great thing content creator like you exist so that I can connect with these characters more. That being said, I still hate Sunday. Broski talked too much.
Feel free to read me to filth! My favorite 4 characters (don’t make me pick lol) are Firefly, Robin, Sunday, and Aventurine. I definitely have a different reading of Sunday/Robin’s relationship from you in that I think of them very much as victims of circumstance. He’s shown to be polishing her halo but the way I understand that is that he cares about her a lot and halos are likely only handled by people very close to them. He’s never told Robin to *be* perfect iirc so much as she puts that standard on herself because she feels the need to inspire others. Sunday does push her to the spotlight but that’s because he believes that’s where she’ll thrive and she does. She just feels trapped from the pressures with it (even then, in her character stories, it is said that she took a break from her career at one point from having lost faith that her music was helping so she has and can stop if she truly needed to). And Sunday probably should have noticed this discomfort! But he was probably busy having all of his stuff with Gopher Wood. When Robin says that Sunday used to have a sweet tooth and would steal all her desserts when they were younger and seems concerned about how much he’s changed, I believe they’ve likely grown distant over the years. So I doubt he was her manager. (Sunday’s character stories go over the letters he’s sent to her over the years as though they have little contact outside of that as well) Robin hasn’t told Sunday about the pressures she feels because she doesn’t want to disappoint him, and Sunday doesn’t tell her about his troubles with how he doesn’t think the Harmony is the path to their goal anymore because he doesn’t want to disappoint her. So when Robin finally sees what’s wrong in 2.2, the person closest to him was finally able to help. And hopefully, she will also have some sort of relief in the future. So… yeah this is how I see them, thank you for reading 😂 I do agree that him wanting to keep Robin caged up was not good, but I don’t believe he ever expressed it/showed it outside of 2.2 (considering how surprised Robin is by this shift and by Sunday’s character stories). It’s understandable how you see him the way that you do though, and I’m glad to see this perspective. It def gives more insight into why someone might not like him as a Sunday enjoyer myself. Thank you for sharing your experience with us, it probably wasn’t easy
Thank you for this comment among the others. I also don't agree that Sunday was trying to cage Robin by supporting her career. He swore to her that he will support her because she did want it as a child. He built that stage for her after her teacher scolded her that she was bad at singing. That's why he directed her video. He wanted to make sure that it was perfect because he loved her, not because he wanted to control her. That song is based on a lullaby he sang for her. Their downfall starts when they are separated but not because of Sunday but because of the plans that GW had for him. Robin's trailer shows her struggles but again not because of her brother 's control. Its the reality of a singer. Sunday had his own problems and Robin didn't support him in those at all. He was left all by himself with too much put on his shoulders. Their problem is separation and lack of communication. In the end Robin realises what happened but it is too late. Her brother already went astray because he had nobody to change his perspective. It saddens me that people don't understand that.
One note - Sunday did tell Robin she needed to be perfect (or rather he was talking to Sparkle who was pretending to be Robin, but he did say it to Robin's face). Ooo...Robin, Firefly, Sunday, and Aventurine. That's really interesting...let me see. You are free-spirited and open, but there are parts of yourself you are deeply protective of, and are afraid what will happen when people see them. All the same, you are deeply compassionate and you understand other peoples' pain easily.
@ Right, I forgot about that. Though I still think he’s in one of his worse moments towards her here. Like. He’s confused because he knows she’s already supposed to be dead (maybe he thinks he’s hallucinating at first), his plans for the Order coming back are falling apart, etc etc. The way I interpret that scene is actually that he’s more talking to himself than to Robin, especially because he’s able to pick up on how that can’t actually be Robin pretty quickly. And with how stressed he is. Also dang, you’re good. Only thing I’d add is that I *want* to be more free-spirited and follow my heart more lol
Yeah that is probably the harshest we ever see him with her, and given everything that just happened he's probably fraying at the scenes a bit and trying very hard not to. Either way, it was a moment that made me bristle when I first heard it, cause I've had it directed at me before. I do feel bad for Sunday there especially. Even after finding out Robin isn't dead, he's still had to like...begin the grief process. That kind of thing doesn't just go away, even though she's back. He's dealing with so much on a psychological and physical level in that update where he goes all Dominicus.
First and foremost I would like to thank you for this video as it had to be a very difficult experience for you. It gave me insight into some things about this character that I didn't notice. I have two things to note, although it probably doesn't matter to anyone but I will still write it because I can 😅 Firstly - Robin and Sunday are NOT twins. It's a metaphor used by Gopher Wood. Sunday is many times referred to as an older brother and I doubt it's because he was born 2 seconds before his sister. In every video where they are shown as kids, he is taller. It changes a lot actually because he feels responsible for Robin and he himself emphasises his role as an older brother who should clear a path for his sister to safely walk on. Despite trusting her, he is aware that there are things only he knows and he does want her to be freed from those burdens (This is from his answers to our questions on AE) Secondly - I don't agree with your opinion that Sunday controlled Robin and made her a singer. Robin wanted to be a singer from childhood. She wasn't pushed into that role by Sunday. Those scenes when he directs her first music video show his love and care for her, not that he wants to cage or control her. Why I do know that? Because, when they were children, Robin was told by her teacher that her singing was bad. Her brother built a stage for her to encourage her to sing and promised her she would realize her dream. He believed in her. This is why he is there with her while they record her music video, not because of some nefarious controlling need. Ofc, he is definitely making sure everything is precisely like it should be but not because he wants to cage her. In this particular video, he is helping her to realise her dream. The song she sings is based on a lullaby Sunday sang for her as well. The two siblings are later separated when Robin starts touring and they only communicate via letters. Robin has little knowledge of what her brother is going through and she later admits that she let herself fall into the role of a younger sister and didn't support her brother enough. Only after Sunday's downfall, did she realise he was excruciatingly lonely. He was clinging to memories of his sister for his dear life. She was the only good true thing in his life. Only after everything ends, Robin decides to finally take care of her brother and support him as he did for her earlier. We cannot forget that Robin was in fact the one who was free despite the that she had to deal with paparazzi but it is something popular people have to deal with. And again it's not because her brother made her do that. It allowed her to shape her opinions freely as she was meeting with people. Sunday on the other hand, was closed in a cage and used from the beginning as a puppet of the Order. He was walking in circles as he said himself and was unaware of it. Since childhood, he was subjected to the influence of order as well. He was the "chosen one", not Robin. It was Gopher Wood's plan from the beginning and it was clearly said. Everyone talks about the scene with Aventurine and I am fed up with it tbh. There is so much Sunday is going through at this point that most of us would go insane and he is still carrying on. I am not excusing him in any way, but I am trying to understand. Aventurine also is not the good guy here but nobody really thinks about it. And Sunday has his rights to see him as suspicious because it wasn't the Family who invited IPC but Gallagher. Of course, there is this scene where Sunday is wondering if he should stop his sister from singing because it's dangerous for her, but it is very human to do so, and not because he is mentally ill. After my father died when I was 16, my mother completely changed and became overprotective to the verge of toxicity. She was so afraid she could loose me too that she discouraged me from any outside activities which partially ruined my youth. Do I say she is a bad person? No, absolutely not. I understand her, and here I also understand Sunday. And lastly - Sunday trapping Robin in a dream is a thing, because she discovered that he trapped her because he changed the charmony dove story for one he thought his sister would prefer. Because he always thought he wasn't good for her and was a failure. It is heartbreaking tbh as she never viewed him this way. But I doubt she would lose her voice as the dream was supposed to be free of Aeons. Sunday would definitely make sure she can sing because it was her biggest dream and he helped her to realise it earlier. Let's not forget it was his promise WITH HIS SISTER that led to what he has done. He is extremely dedicated and loving. It saddens me that he is brought down to be a guy with mental illness. There is so much more to him than that. But it is just my opinion as well that you probably won't read anyway but I had to voice it out. Peace, and I hope we will have a good character development of Sunday in the story because he's the most interesting and well-written character imo.
I absolutely understand your points, I relate to many of them too. Being a victim of circumstance doesn't automatically make one blameless or wiped of wrongdoings; at the same time, recognizing and condemning one's actions doesn't automatically make one an evil villain, nor should it lessen the compassion we approach their situation with. Of course, Sunday has all the rights to be wary and distrustful of people who are at opposition with what he's trying to protect, and yes he's going through a lot, but there are various shades of accountability and some inexcusable lines to cross, even when it comes to high-emotional-duress interactions. Hurt people hurt people. Maybe Sunday didn't mean to be the controlling mastermind behind Robin's social pressure, but we also can't ignore the perspectives of people who had choice/freedom taken away from them, or felt pressure to live up to someone's high expectations or perfectionism. For instance, imagine a sibling who is perfectionistic in their academic levels may not have the intention to cause harm to another sibling's mental health, but their tendencies and high self-expectations naturally overflow onto the other sibling, who feels the effects nonetheless. One angle would be that the achieving sibling is just trying to help their other sibling and is also a victim of their own, say, tiger parents. Another angle would be that the achieving sibling should develop awareness of the cycle and realize that the tunnel mindset they use to discipline themselves has a very harmful effect on those around them. The main contention I wanted to bring to light, though, is simply how you phrased "He is extremely dedicated and loving. It saddens me that he is brought down to be a guy with mental illness. There is so much more to him than that." I'm certain you had no ill intent, I just want to question the accidental implication of this statement (coming from a guy with several mental illnesses but also prioritizes dedication and love to family). That phrasing implies that being 'a guy with mental illness' is on a lower level of complexity than one without. I recognize the harm in reducing an entire person to only the diagnoses they're given; but as someone who had to fight really hard for proper diagnoses, care, and acceptance, it feels hurtful to assume that bringing attention to the mental illness takes away the authenticity and depth of one's values and compassion. Just because we identify symptoms of a disorder in Sunday, does not mean he is any less devoted, loving, and complex. If anything, it should make him more complex and add more understanding behind his experiences, actions, and thought patterns. Mental illness is only a character-reducing thing if you go into it with that perspective. Mental illness does NOT negate empathy, contribution, dependability, or autonomy. His own misguidedness and his choices are JUST as valid the psychological experiences that CONTRIBUTED to those choices, and neither cancels the other out when it comes to looking at how it brought him to where he is. The inclusion of mental illness isn't a catch-all or a cop-out to explain a character; it is ones' perception and stereotype of mental disorders that close the doors to compassion or exploration of more 'deeper' aspects of a person. However, if what you meant was something like this: "It saddens me that we focus on attributing Sunday's entire experience to pure psychiatric diagnoses, which we already know are extremely limiting labels irl (dang you, DSM-5 and naming/classification system!! You did your best, but you still need major improvements!)" and "There is so much nuance to Sunday's character beyond the speculated labels we run with, and unexplored nuance in the symptoms we draw parallels to" ...then, I sincerely apologize for being nitpicky and calling ya out like that 😅😅 I tend to be overly aware of these subconscious biases, harmful implications, and lack of awareness when making those generalizations (eg. "you're not fat, you're beautiful!" or "you're surprisingly good looking, for a trans person" and other concerning double-edged turns of phrase) so yea please don't take anything I said personally, I meant it in more in the direction of a general commentary on social paradigms, and how it symbiotically feeds into our own blind spots in the things we say 🥲🙏 I really appreciate you bringing up your understanding of your mom (my condolences to that whole situation, by the way😓), the Sunday dispute, as well as Aventurine's morally grey positions, because it opens this connection towards what is essentially the core of Dialectic Behavioural Therapy. These coexisting opposing truths, and the fact that nothing is ever black or white. The line between victim and perpetrator is blurry and oft-debated over because it is unnatural for these two aspects/perspectives to be separate. Victim and perpetrator can coexist. Accountability/fault and sympathy/empathy can coexist. Good intentions and toxic actions can coexist. Thanks for reading the ramble, sorry if I came off combative or offensive, have a great day :)
I don't think Sunday MADE Robin a singer either. She loved music and she loved being a singer, but what she wanted to do with that gift looked SO DIFFERENT than what Sunday wanted her to do. She wanted to be a "missionary" of sorts for the harmony, and we see her gravitate back to that role again and again, just singing for people in casual settings and bringing them joy. Sunday appears to be the one organizing all the giant public appearances though, and wanting her to be a big superstar. Again, this video is nonobjective. I know I've gotten a handful of details wrong, but it was meant to express how I perceived things and how I experienced the story when I first played it. So if I've gotten things wrong, it's actually consistent to things I misunderstood on my first playthrough, just because of my own experiences, and it's really cool to see how other people understand the story from theirs :) Thanks so much for your comment. You're awesome!
Thank you for sharing this i'm not good when to expressing words but this video resonated with me in such a way that it made me look back at myself. Sunday as a character is very polarizing and it has invoke many different things in people depending on how you view him and what you experienced. One thing for sure we should always have the freedom to make the choices we deem right for ourselves even if it might put us in danger. Part of living is accepting how absurd life is and rolling with it, to define ourselves and who we are is what makes us human even if it's imperfect. This was a very good video and it was really brave of you to even put this out, honestly you inspired me to do a lot of reflecting I wish nothing but the best for you and thank you for being YOU.
9:55 to clarify first: i do like sunday, his design, his redemption story but not gonna lie, when we met him in the quest the way he thinks icked me the most, it kinda activated my religous trauma (and the fact that he's also a priest didn't help much) because he reminded me so much of the church members and their morally high way of thinking.
OH YEAH his character design might be best in the game. He's lovely to look at. But yeah, that moral superiority just gets under my skin in a way not much else can.
Sunday is a very complex character that's neither fully evil nor fully good. I think people tend to put characters they like in a better light, both intentionally and intentionally, than they really are which is why people who love Sunday tend to ignore his flaws. But you can like a character for their complexity without trying to make them better in your head or trying to excuse their actions. As much as we love to see fictional characters as fundamentally good or bad, some characters aren't as cut and dry. At least that's my view. Of course our personal life affect our views as our brains have trouble differentiating between a real or fictional character (this is why you can fall in love with a fictional character). (Sorry if i didn't make sense, I'm writing this while sleep deprived)
This video was really beautiful and hard for me. I share your relationship with sunday, and honestly, the reason why I never enter sunday discutions online is because it hurts too much seing Ppl makes excuses for his behavior or even agreeing with his methods. It's not something I'm healed enough to deal with, and I noticed that immediately after doing the quest and seeing the online reaction. Sunday's abuse just hits too close to home for me to sympathize as much as I do understand his character. I also felt some time of way abt the eugenic ideals and ableism being so overlooked in the community. That really highlighted how ppl tend to view disability and it was hard to stomach.
As someone who has anxiety, I can relate with him (which is rare occasion) and one of the people who agree with him. Living is tiring for me and I already daydreaming a lot. So if someone gives me eternal dream, even without my consent, I won't be that mad. But I also understand the important of free will. I have need of control. I don't like someone ordering me (except for work) because I don't have control. I also understand living or interacting with people like me and Sunday is difficult and can be traumatic for some people. Even I don't like living with myself. It's nightmare! If people don't like him, it's fine. We perceive things different. As long as they don't dislike him because of wrong information, like he actually wanted to be Aeon or other misinformation (misinformation rritates me so much), I'm good.
Thank you for bringing up this lesser talked about side of Sunday! I also think the negative effects of his actions are not talked about much, so this was enlightening for me to hear. Thank you for sharing your experience with his character! Also please psychoanalyze me too! My favorites are Aventurine, Jiaoqiu and Dan Heng Edit: I added Dan Heng… I love him too much
People that can explain topics like this are not common and I really enjoy this form of explanation so keep being yourself and spreading happiness to people like me.
fantastic video, this was clearly very personal for you and sunday has had a similar effect on some of my loved ones. always love your videos, hope you're having a great 2025!
I can imagine how hard it was to make this video, and im happy for the person behind the screen, who acomplished her goal of sharing something so personal with so many people. I am glad that she sees this channel as a way of expressing herself, where she can shape a side of her however she wants. I wish her good luck on the journey we call life, and i will gladly follow content with Ema Mae's signature.
this was an amazing video!! it really gave me a whole new perspective on sunday. you are so brave for sharing a bit of your story, and I wish you the best going forward!! I am fairly new to HSR, and I don’t do this often, but I thought I’d share a bit of my thoughts, as sunday is one of my favorite characters: sunday is complicated in the sense that he is both selfless and selfish. he is selfless in that he just wants everyone to be happy, and is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for this very purpose, (from my understanding) but is selfish in how he doesn’t take other people’s criticisms of his philosophy and goals into consideration, so set on the idea he is doing this good, amazing thing, (this is most likely related to religious trauma, I’ve experienced something similar) blatantly ignoring the flaws with his thinking, building himself up to give him a sense of self-worth, probably because of the abuse and manipulation he has faced. now, I’m not saying the fact that he was abused gives him an excuse for what he has done, but I think it is important to acknowledge that, on the surface, sunday has good intentions. and that is what makes him such an interesting character to me! he believes he is doing good, and, if you look at it a certain way, he can be viewed as understandable, yet he is definitely aware of how much harm he is causing. he doesn’t stop and acknowledge it because he truly believes he is doing the right thing. essentially, his selflessness is what makes him selfish. with that being said, everyone is free to have their own personal opinion of him. your reluctance to like him is COMPLETELY valid. like I said, I’m fairly new to the game, so I may have missed some details that have caused me to interpret his story wrong, but I wanted to share because I thought this was a great video, and it made me reflect a lot on his character!
"i made a mask so i can better understand what was under it" Woah! never have i felt hit as hard. I have never been me, the people around be wanted me to be a mold to fit all of their feelings and their pain cause of their consequences. I always had to be the mediatior and break myself down until the concept of "Me" was not something i could give someone an answer to. Honestly thank you, this video has helped me understand what i have been trying to do and it does not feel as heavy anymore cause "i made a mask so i can better understand who I am under it". I dont know how to thank you for helping understand this void in my chest, but one thing we can do is not forget that the mask is who we want to be and i dont care if it's a mask or not if it makes me happy then who cares ❤
There's a saying "give a man a mask and he will become his true self" but I've found that only works if the mask itself doesn't come with expectations. I've been masking my whole life. People think the mask is my true self when they have no idea what's underneath. This space where I'm Ema is one of the few places that has no expectations attached to it. So it's both a mask and a removal of the mask. It's incredible.
I... have a lot of experience with manipulation. I was raised to be a sociopath, with the explicit purpose being a sort of "Wish Granter". Looking at Sunday was this, sort of reminder to who I used to be. More embarrassing to me if anything else. It's been a long time since I've been that person. Hell my profile name's a reference to Sherlock Holmes because his character arc in the original books resonated with me a lot. After I realized I didn't want to be... me. I ended up somewhere, where everyone wanted to be 'me', even the victims. It was like a purgatory made just for me. I ended up learning how much of a curse that famous spider-man quote could be because of that. Anyways, i've seen a lot. I've done a lot. And... when it comes to someone like Sunday. Someone like who I used to be, I think the best scene to highlight what he needs to do to change, is the scene where he's talking to Wonweek, and he's getting compared to Aventurine a bunch; where it's being pointed out that Sunday's being more risky and taking more bets. Sunday and Aven both manipulate people; but one drowns in his Nihilism and Paranoia, while the other believes in Hope. I took the long way around to learn that lesson myself, but I got there eventually. What I'm _hoping_ for in the story going forwards, is for Sunday to continue to change; for Aventurine to serve as both Rival and Rolemodel. And for them to have a rematch someday, where Sunday's growth can be properly put to the test.
@@bingusbongusthethirdEmotional Negligence and having very specific morals and beliefs reinforced through functionally artificial environments... basically.
@@bingusbongusthethirdSimilar story to what Ema described. Not exactly the same, but similar. Additionally, both my parents were grooming me into their image. They each actually had a specific image of me in their head, both of which were fundamentally not good ideals to put on a kid-- I became both of their ideals put together though, and, behold: Sociopath. Mom wanted me to be Paranoid and Vain, and Dad wanted me to be Angry and Proud. Basically, Fear, Anger, and a Lot of Narcissism. Suddenly very worried about what you're gonna do with this information, but I won't press it.
I want Sunday and Aventurine to work together SO BADLY you have no idea. I'm gonna do a side-by-side comparison of the two of them at some point. I may dislike Sunday but I love the similarities between the two of them. (How would you feel if Sunday one day became a stoneheart?)
I do like Sunday for him being such a complex character for a gacha game and seeing how he comes and will move forward is something that Im looking forward too. Likewise, my three favorite characters are: Sampo, Sunday and Ruan Mei.
i mean, as a Sunday liker, even lover, I'd probably hate him irl. And I'm sure many other Sunday fans would as well. It's really just people's perception of the reality of fictional characters. I'm just excited to see antagonists and find out how they became who they are. Because yes, meeting nice and sweet characters in game is nice but the excitement from meeting characters like Sunday is just bigger for me. That's all. Anyways love a proper analysis. ♡
I like him a lot. I can relate with him which is rare occasion. That's why he is only good in fiction. I don't want to have spouse like him except for his face (he is so beautiful💜). I know living or interacting with people like me or him is difficult and can be traumatic for some people. I'm tired of myself too.
Oh this is such a good video thank you for it! Reasons why someone might not like Sunday or feel unease because of him - that's why I LOVE him as a character; the fact he hit so realistically for you only confirms how well written he is too. I guess I have a weak spot for fictional characters who feel trapped by their own mind/self imposed limited options/rigid morality; and it's the best in case where all they wanna do is good, but it only leads to terrible consequences. The thing that is truly reedeming about Sunday is that he admitted his wrongs, and truly seen effects of his doing, deeply feeling he does need to both change inwardly and outwardly. No more excuses & true humility.
[Although I haven’t watched the video at all since it’s currently 12am and i don’t wanna make noise, i’ve read the comments and guessed the contents (I watch it I swear), but i’m still making this comment cuz i wanna share me thoughst] As someone who loves Sunday so much because of his backstory and arc, he had definitely messed up, BADLY. His writing is jsut amazing to me, even as someone who never had the same struggles. Because for all I love him, I won’t hesitate to admit that he had done many bad things and is incredibly toxic as a person. and it’s completely okay to dislike him for thst. His actions become incredibly selfish in execution, with him believing his plan to be the best, using his powers as a way to gain leverage over others, etc. completely ignoring how he’s affecting the others around him. Still that isn’t to say he’s a cold blooded villain. He’s been shown to be he opposite, he’s incredibly selfless, willing to sacrifice himself if it means that people remain happy, doing anything so people can get their paradise even if it means he remains the lone one awake in the dream. He also definitely wasn’t raised in a healthy environment by any means, he says it himself that he was raised as a bird stuck in a cage. Does it make his actions excusable? Not at all. If he truly wants to recover and heal, he still needs to take accountability for his actions. Which…he does. Which is actually smth I wanna talk abt: His redemption arc which I really like. Ofc he can’t fix everything. The hurt he’s done to other people can’t be fixed so easily, but he still does what he can. He tries to fix any damage his actions had caused within Peacony, and is well aware that his actions weren’t good. He tries to break the cycle of abuse of letting himself not become a victim (and in turn, not un turn make others victims of his actions) and learns he still has a long way to go. He’s not evil, nor is he good. And it’s completely okay to dislike him for his actions, much like how it’s also okay to like him because of his story.
THANK YOU! Finally, I see someone with the same ick and feelings as me about Sunday. I couldn't really find anyone else online but his fans and this is really validating. The scene with Aventurine was one of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen! The Harmony markings on Aventurine scene? Nausea inducing. Like, people say he is a good villain and I agree! He's a greatly written character and works as an antagonist. But most people focused on his willingness to trap Penacony for everyone to be happy and that wasn't really my issue with him. At least not the only one. Yeah, that was bad but I hated how controlling and fake he seemed! And people excuse his actions (you also say that you see he does the best he can and I agree to an extent) bc a lot of things he did made sense to HIM but that's the thing - if he didn't find himself so important (yeah yeah he was manipulated and raised like that I KNOW) he maybe would consider other people's opinions! That's what's so infuriating to me! He's self-absorbed and SELFISH. I also, like you, don't want to sympathize with Sunday, bc he is just that unlikable. Now I've reflected on why I found him so unbearable (him basically being a priest, him taking away freedom from Aventurine and Sentencing him to Death basically (his penacony dream would erase it if Aventurine "behaved" I know I know), his relationship with Robin and also his overall personality). That's why I would have liked the most recent quest to be longer and I'm left dissatisfied after it. I felt it was a little shallow and barely scratched the surface of his personality but it did finally give me at least a little closure about his character. I do think it's important to talk about the morality of characters as it reflects on our own opinions about the world. Thanks for sharing your perspective especially since it was so personal. I do think you raise a very important question - about the people hurt by people who didn't intend to hurt them and where the blame and responsibility lies.
Except that he's not selfish. He's doing all of this for the good of the people around him and is willing to be the one who never has his own dreams come true if it means others can have their own dreams. And yet it isn't what the people he's "helping" want. This is the difficulty of Sunday, I can see how he is selfish, and I can see how he is selfless. I can see his virtues and his flaws side by side. But I don't care how much I understand him, what he's done is wrong. It don't care how much he can't help certain aspects of himself, the people he's hurt deserve better. He doesn't deserve punishment per se, but the fact that he doesn't understand his own actions doesn't make him harmless. If anything it makes him MORE dangerous. How am I supposed to categorize this kind of person in my brain? I don't mean "good" or "evil." How am I supposed to approach them, interact with them? I have no idea. (I'm not talking about Sunday)
@ Sorry for the long one again! I send my comment and I just knew I phrased it wrong… Because YES! Yes he is so selfless! He loves his sister and he wants her happiness and he wants everyone on Penacony to be happy and he is ready to sacrifice himself for others. He is a willing sacrifice!! The definition of selflessness! AND (to me) he is so selfless that it- HE’s become selfish! A paradox! He is so stuck on this path of self righteousness, of being a sacrifice for the happiness of others, so convinced he is right - and I see that selfishness I hate. He is convinced it’s the “greater good” and I hate it. He deceived Gopher, never intending to resurrect Order, he wanted everyone to just forever live in a sweet dream, bc for him it wasn’t a prison (the whole thing with that bird again damn it). He ignored the express crew’s opinions and he tried to show how he is the only right one (the damn 2 choices again damn it). And how he treats trailblazer like a child who he guides towards enlightenment and the only right answer - ugh. “But I don’t care how much I understand him” entire paragraph- Yes, Yes, YES! SAME! That’s why his actions shouldn’t be brushed off and I really, really want to see some further development. People are complex, that’s why I’m so unnerved by Sunday I think, because he seems like such a real human it’s unnatural, but also he seems more human than strangers on the street because you don’t get this much insight into a real person. And I look at all this and I’m like… this character hurts to look at, to think about. Sometimes it doesn’t matter if we can sympathise / empathise with someone because often that doesn’t change anything at all. Your feelings matter and they stand next to your ability to understand people. As for how to act and how to communicate and how to come to terms with it… I do not know.
@ Mhm. (I'm going to rant for a second, so please understand this is not directed at you AT ALL, I'm just pent-up, frustrated, and caffeinated atm and need a place to put this before my thoughts evaporate) I love going back and forth with people in the comments here, and analyzing character beats, but the thing I can't communicate clearly in a way people understand is *I'm not analyzing a character*. He's selfish, he's selfless, he can't help what he did, he has a choice, he has good intentions, he hurt people, he's doing his best, he could've done better. THIS IS MY LIFE. THIS IS NOT A CHARACTER ANALYSIS. THESE ARE THE THOUGHTS I HAVE TO DIG THROUGH ON A DAILY BASIS. Every single effing day. The very things that make people praise him for being a complex character are the things that make living under him an unparalleled hell. That's the point of parts 1-3 of the video. It's not about Robin or Sunday or even Aventurine. This is my life. Ok rant over. Again, totally not aimed at you, I just needed a place to put this where I knew it'd be seen. Might delete later, might screenshot it and put it in a community note. I have so much more to say about Sunday than I even put in the video. I love him, I hate him, I respect him, I'm afraid of him. They did so well with him and I don't even know where to start.
@@iamemamae I know, I know. You’re not analysing the character. and it’s… well I cannot imagine how that must feel. I’m seeing your situation only through the context of this fictional character after all. What I’m trying to say is - I understand what you were/are saying. I just focused on the fictional aspect of it. Me and a lot of other comments are focusing on the character. For you it’s a real life - a real man come alive in a video game. It feels like torture, kind of, I presume. To have this going through your head. I hope i don’t sound like an asshole when I say: I feel for you. I obviously can’t know how you feel or know about your life above what you’ve said - but yeah that sounds like it sucks man. Again i do not think there’s a clear answer here. The hurt happened and it is valid. Your feelings are valid. And your ability to empathise means emotional intelligence but also hurt in this case. Maybe the answer lies in… being more selfish. (this sentence is not supposed to be humorous but i think it kinda turned out that way) Take care of yourself and i truly wish you a peace of mind.
@@alexandraalie Not assholish at all, and you're right about being selfish. The thing that I've had to come to terms with is "it's not selfish to take for myself what already belongs to me." My future and my sense of self are mine BY RIGHT. They don't belong to anyone else, and it doesn't matter how much they guilt trip me or make me feel like I'm obligated to do what they want, I am my own person.
this was so beautiful and interesting to listen to. Your story deeply resonates with me and it opened my eyes. I had to replay several parts to write them down and to fully understand and hear every detail. Thank you for opening up and sharing your story with us!
this makes sense to me. i’ve had childhood trauma from what was essentially a nonreligious cult, and i think sunday brings up a lot of those feelings for me. i also think the christian imagery puts me off because of being queer and in the bible belt. i personally haven’t gone through being told i can’t be queer because of religion, but i know so many people who have. many of my friends have. so that makes me squeamish. i also think that a huge part of my discomfort is how deeply i resonate with aventurine. i think he’s a fascinating character and there’s certain parts of him i like, but he isn’t someone who i can truly enjoy because of that deep discomfort i get, for the exact reasons you talked about. i only really seek to enjoy his character in ship dynamics that include “corrupting” him in some way, and breaking through his control. it almost feels healing for me. i also think there’s some stuff about my extensive medical trauma there, especially with like the fallen bird imagery, that makes me associate him with abusive doctors. i have no issue with people liking him. i think the main thing that bothers me a bit is how people compare him to scara. i absolutely see the narrative parallels and appreciate them! however for me, in terms of their personalities and morals, they are completely different. scara wanted to free himself and rid himself of humanity due to trauma. he looked down on others simply because he sees them as a danger and abandonment waiting to happen. sunday wanted to control and protect others. he saw himself as a savior, and his goal was not to free himself of a cage built by humanity - but to build one himself for humanity. again, the narrative parallels are really cool, but the comparisons treating them as if they’re the same people with the same story and morals? i can’t stand that. i honestly think they’d hate each other if they met. this isn’t to say scara is perfect by any means! he’s flawed and his actions are often morally not okay and very messed up. this is about my personal connection to scara and how i feel others misread sunday and scara’s motives as the same, when they very much are not. i honestly think scara and furina, for example, would get along better, soley because of their similar experiences with isolation, despite having different motives this is only my own personal thoughts/feelings and i intend no hate or insult to anyone.
Mhm. I didn't grow up in a cult, but it's shocking and sickening the more I learn about cults just how many control methods I can see having been used on me and my family in my childhood and young adult years. I also grew up-highly Christian, so Sunday...hits a lot of nerves. I also have the affinity for Aventurine. What unsettles me is how incredible similar Aventurine and Sunday are, on FAR more than a surface level, and yet I hate one and love the other with my entire heart. It's so odd. I'm still trying to figure it out.
A quote I quite like, not sure who said it but basically: "Everyone is entitled to the chance to better themselves and try to make their future better than their past, but nobody is entitled to be forgiven by those they wronged, that choice lies with the victim of their actions alone." This being said, I dislike Sunday less than I did, but I still dislike him, he may yet find some form of redemption, but it'll have to be something miraculous to make me actually not basically hate him. The things he did to Robin, Aventurine, and many others are pretty bad, would be hard to offset that evil-already-done.
this was a fenomenal video, thank you for letting us know a bit about your experiences in life and how star rail helped you understand yourself as well, I also share that experience of relating to the portrayal of turning the fear of the unkwown into curiosity given by this game. It really shows the care the devs had on each aspect of the art and storu direction. love your theory vids as well :)
I personally can't stand Sunday. Not only because of what he did to Aventurine (even if he was protecting his home, as far as he knew, Aventurine was just some guy doing his job!), but because he thought himself as infallible. He thought that his version of people and how the world should be was the best alternative to how it currently is, and I can never look past how, despite his good intentions, he caused a lot of despair to a lot of people. If it were up to me, I would have left him to rot in jail.
Just because someone is "just some guy doing his job" doesn't mean that guy isn't planning on doing something that could irrevocably cause harm to everything you care about. Penacony used to be a literal prison belonging to the IPC and Aventurine was there to snatch Penacony back _for_ the IPC. Would they have became a prison again? Probably not as such since Penacony has since made itself into an extremely profitable enterprise the IPC would want to exploit. But...that's just it. "Exploit". Aventurine doesn't get a pass for just doing his job when his job involves intentionally taking advantage of people. And I say that as somebody who actually really likes Aventurine as a character.
@@anaplaysstuff Here's the thing about Aventurine - we can assume things about what he's done, but Hoyo has actually given us NO INFORMATION about harm he's actually caused. Aventurine has actually caused NO HARM that we know of. He has hurt no one except himself and there's evidence he's even working against the IPC from the inside, or at the very least aiding them against his will because he quite literally belongs to them. Aventurine is not "doing his job," he's a slave to the IPC. This is pretty explicit. He has no choice. He is the ONE CASE where I call him a victim and refuse to take criticism on that point.
Interesting analysis. I was ready to believe that Sunday can change for the better, but hearing someone who can relate to Robin's situation talk about it does make me think a little. The most valuable story tidbit we can glean is probably from Wonweek, the fraction of Sunday's personality that contained the things he was repressing, like a sense of humor, and the knowledge that he was being a control freak who deserves brutal honesty more than sympathy. I don't think he is beyond redemption, but after watching this, the road just got a bit longer.
I don't like him because he's Temu Dr. Maruki from Persona 5 Royal. I've already seen this character done waaaaay better in one of my all time favorite games. Spoilers for a better rpg: Dr. Maruki suffers a traumatic experience in which a loved one is seriously injured. The incident forces a wedge between the two and he blames himself for not being able to protect her. This sends him down a path in which he seeks a supernatural power with the ability to warp reality in order to craft a reality in which there is no suffering. A beautiful dream. This comes at the expense of all other people's freedom and ability to choose their own path. The protagonist sets out to shatter the dream after he ends up trapped in a "perfect" reality where everyone who died is suddenly alive and all of the strife his friends previously faced has been wiped away. There's a large focus on the theme of freedom along side suffering vs a beautiful cage with no strife, but it's not hamfisted through the repetitive image of a dove. The protagonist eventually wins out and Dr. Maruki sees things from the protagonist's point of view, choosing to instead move on from the past and create a new life for himself. He even helps the protagonist escape to a train station at the end of the game so he can return home. This is also why I hate Adventurine. He gave off bootleg Akechi vibes from the start and basically follows his arc up until the end. The difference being, Akechi actually sacrifices himself to help shatter the dream where as Adventurine gets to live because they need you to spend money pulling him in the gacha.
I have a question if you dont mind 8:04 Well, it's stated that he and robin rarely saw eachother so Sunday may still think he knows robin and I dont think hes her manager considering he's head of the oak family and never left peanacony
@iamemamae yeah true lol and also I just looked at his character story one where you unlock it after leveling the character and yeah he wasn't her manager
@ That was the word I chose but if you notice I said "more or less her manager" - it's not his official position, but it's implied he had a fair amount of control over certain aspects of her career. That was all I meant by it.
6:00 Ooo ooo do me! My top 3 are probably (in this order) Dan Heng, Firefly, and Welt Also great video! This is sort of how I feel about Sunday. I like Sunday but also confused about some of his decisions. But his worldview and his thought process really intrigues me at the same time
Thanks for the video as always Ema. You're my favorite HSR lore analyst/theorist and I'm so glad your channel is growing! Good job, you deserve it. And I really mean it, especially after learning what all this work represents to you. About Sunday, my sentiments towards him are just as you described in the intro of this video. I don't hate him, but I can't bring myself to like him as much as the rest of the community does. However it's funny to see that my reasons for feeling this way are quite different from yours, because we didn't experience the same things in life. I believe this is also why I love Robin while you're pretty neutral about her. I'd love to develop further but that would be another 20 mins video xD In the end, it's really subjective and depends on each person's experience, point of view and opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.
Thank you for this video. In addition to the new topics you've brought forth, you've made me realize I overlooked a part of Sunday's character that I didn't even know existed. As someone who is neither fan, nor hater (though I have him because his kit is good for the upcoming expac that releases next week), I did feel that something felt off. Not only did I not realize it felt off, I had no clue where to even look. It also shows how much detail the writers put into the character and amazes me at just how well written Sunday is.
Honestly I think you’ve come the closest in any discussion or analysis of Sunday’s character to articulating the way I feel about him, so… thank you I suppose. Genuinely. Being able to finally click my frustratingly complicated emotions is weirdly healing. Sunday’s character is a tough one for me to discuss because, kind of like you described, despite everything story wise, I just couldn’t shake this feeling of discomfort and familiarity with him, and just could never like him as everyone else seemingly could. I won’t ramble so I’ll just say this, from what it’s worth from some random stranger on the internet, thank you for sharing your experience, and I’m so happy that you are embracing the power of choice :D
Deeply vulnerable and beautiful video. Thank you for sharing your story and explaining the character of Sunday on a deeper level than I realized existed!
in the 10 months I've seen your content, from your "why firefly is one of the most important characters in penacony" video, to this most recent one, I am so glad that I found your channel, and I love the way you present your theories and you're one of my go to channels in the HSR community :D Also, it must have taken an incredible amount of strength to reanalyse Sunday's character and relate it back to your personal life and I'm so happy that you trust us enough to share such an experience. P.S: my favourite star rail characters are boothill, aventurine, and Jing Yuan
This is interesting because I entirely agree with you but it makes me like him as a character precisely because of these complexities and darknesses he has. And the effects he has had. There are many good characters out there who are villains. And he is a great villain! I think he is well written. I love this character but not because I aspire to be him, but because of how honestly he’s written. To me, many fantastic stories out there would not be good stories without villains. And the fact that he leaves a bad aftertaste or that he is so readily applicable to the audience’s lives is actually a “pro” for me. And him joining the express doesn’t necessarily mean he will suddenly be viewed as a “good” person and forget all that has happened. I trust the writers here (rare) and I have faith he will remain just as complex, even in his “redemption” arc. He’s only truly said he will find “another way” to achieve his goals. I’m willing to accept this or him slowly changing to better himself. I don’t think the writers here ever seemed to condone his behavior. And if this isn’t the case in the future, you’ll find me complaining about the sudden drop in quality of the writing.
Coming back to this video again because wow is it good. You have very quickly become one of my favorite HSR lore creators, if not just the one I turn to period. You always explain everything so well and give it all just the right dramatic flair that the videos are so rewatchable! And even with all that you still took a moment to be open and vulnerable on the internet, which is terrifying for me to even try to imagine. So…well I don’t really know but I have sympathy for you. Thanks for being a cool internet person :)
Also, if you have the time/see this, I would say my three favorite characters are: Stelle, Rappa, and, HI3rd Herrscher of Truth Bronya. Diatribe on choice below, but I just wanted to emphasize that you are a wonderful content creator, and I always love your theories and videos because they’re all so grounded, focusing on the interpersonal aspect rather than “predictions” and “reality shattering plot twists”. It’s just really nice to see character driven theories if that makes any sense lol. I really had to think hard and consider, who are the characters I loved and used and decided to play with, even when everyone else was saying no, and it was those three. Now, uh, EmmaMae (god that seems so formal), I think you mentioned somewhere else that you were getting into HI3rd, but Bronya at the end of part one’s story is somewhere between Silverwolf and HSR Bronya.
sunday to me is... the way I think but also a thing I don't want to end up being it was hard for me to understand why and your video have cleared my mind a little since I can relate with the father experience it's something I started fighting back once I became a teen (you know... those "rebel years") I still feel chained to something that doesn't let me feel free like that harmony spell even if he is no longer in my life
I haven’t fully watched the video yet but I just want to say I’m SO glad someone shares the same opinion as me. With how praised he is in the fandom, I felt like an outsider being the only one who didn’t enjoy his character that much. Not because he wasn’t complex, rather I didn’t like his actions. I’m interested to hear your thoughts as well because I feel no one ever talks about this.
@ This was a really pleasant video to watch. Not with the topics, but how you made balance between the character, their actions, their justifications, and yourself. I always love when people are vulnerable enough to share themselves through a character, and your connection between Sunday and Robin, with your own past, was interesting. I’m sorry for your experience though. What I especially loved was your touch on when we draw the line for past trauma excusing future actions. A lot of people use Sunday’s backstory as justification for what he has done when regardless it has caused unnecessary harm for others. Nowadays people often forget that tragic backstories aren’t always an excuse for what characters have done, rather an explanation as to why they do it or feel that way. Very strongly do I feel is the same for Sunday. Great video seriously!
I feel similarly about Sunday. I understand that his actions came from good intentions. I accept that he is working to become a better person. But I cannot forgive him. Psychoanalysis based on our 3 favorite characters? Mine are Pela, Huohuo, and Qingque. And you are right that it’s because I see myself in them. I’m capable, but lack ambition, I periodically will hyperfixate on things, my childhood involved chronic peer rejection, and I am like a completely different person when I’m at work.
Sunday and aventurine are both chars i adore because i saw alot of things of them in me and everything you said is indeed still valid, but i think it wad also kinda the point. If he were to idk just threathen to unleash a stellaron alot of players wouldbt have felt that his whole punishment motif was needed. People forgive worse for characters. But instead they made him actually have very fucked up things that then make you go "this guy is scary". The whole scene of him arguing wws typical manipulation. Giving you only two options was the point cuz then they wereactively making you feel limited, but also go "he has a point..." Exactly how he wants it. He wants you to find a better solution but he actively makes sure it stays within his limited ideas. this is how he gives that cult leader feel and also what makes his journey so interesting, to the point that i take him as partially inspiration of how i could maybe cope with my guilt too Lastly as ive been watching u for a while, im happy to hear you are usibg this all to find yourself and that its helping, im glad to hear that. Wish you a great day as always
on your question of when victim becomes abuser there isnt a line people can be both,in my opinion what matters is reconsing understanding and overcoming your trauma as hard as it is of course not everyone deserves forgiveness or should expect it but i would be content knowing even if im not forgiven or cant forgive those but as longs as those mistakes mean no one else will feal the pain i inflicted or felt then that is enough the difference between remediation and becoming worse is change it cant and wont fix your mistakes nothing can but it will stop you from making them again
I do wish you the best, and to say that I hope you feel like you can forever embody the Will of the Trailblaze within yourself forever more. Because, even if it feels like someone is just tugging us along in life, I wish to still feel like we do what we want, because we want it. Our lives are our own and should not be dictated by others. On another note, while Sunday is leaving Penacony with his sins still buried into those he scarred, do remember he at least made it so some of those will not continue to harm others. Obviously no character is perfect, but at least he recognizes his faults and is trying. He could possibly just be running away, but at least he did not leave without at least resolving some of his faults before he did so.
haha love the "i'll tell u stuff about urself based on what characters u like", would love to see u work ur magic! if we are talkin only star rail, i would say my faves are kafka, sampo and aventurine
Brilliant video. Thank your excellent explanations and then going beyond by sharing your personal truths, when you could have perfectly not. Your experience and perspective are a layer that, I feel, is important to remember among all the complexity that is Sunday.
The "fawn" emotion response. I thought it was a new emotion I can learn about. Turns out it's not and it is actually very, very relatable to me. So many times in my life I have been scared, but I couldn't stop smiling. I hate it The reason the whole Penacony and Sunday story feels so eerie for me, might be because of how religious it feels in a way. I haven't had the best experience with that and often I push away any family members that are religious because I feel in danger. Even if that specific person has never done anything to me. Also, where can I get the opportunity to be analysed based on my fav characters? That sounds very, very cool and I'd like to look more into it
Thank you for another amazing video Ema, and thank you for sharing such sensitive and personal things. I'm so sorry that you experienced such things. I hope you're in a better place now. Be happy and healthy 💖 Also, didn't expect to see Cinema Therapy in one of your videos. As a fan of Cinema Therapy, I'm happy that you included a clip from their video ❤️
My Favs are Sunday, Yanqing, March. Analyze me and don't hold back! 😆 I also like Jiaoqiu, Jingliu, Kafka, Yunli, and Acheron.. Also great video. I'm glad you had the confidence to make it. Hoping the best for you this year.
I am not Ema Mae, but is it alright if I give it a try? This is my first time so please don't take my interpretations to heart, haha. - maybe you feel weak or helpless in some aspects of your life (be it past trauma, social life, etc.) so you try to make up for it by appearing cool, strong, or competent? That's not to say you're not a strong or competent person, of course! I just meant it like, maybe that's how you compensate. - you admire/appreciate hard work & true effort, maybe even more so when it comes from someone young, bright, and earnest - you have a playful/dramatic side, but when shit gets real you sort of close off and become extremely serious or nihilistic - when you know you're in the wrong, you feel guilty but are afraid of taking accountability which causes you to detach yourself from the situation/others' emotions in order to alleviate guilt (? idk just a guess) - Maybe you have a thing for found family, and you take on the role of an advisor or protector in said dynamics - it's a reach here but maybe there's something in your past that you couldn't face/process, so you just repress it and force yourself to forget it until you're numb inside enough to keep moving on in life if you're comfortable, I'd like to know what has resonated with you, what I've missed, and what I've gotten egregiously wrong lol :)
You love deeply and are passionate about what you care about, to a point where you sometimes feel intimidated by your own emotions and distance yourself from them.
Not watched the video yet, just read the title but, I honestly think it is so refreshing to have characters like this that aren't just definitively positively in the "good guy" camp, which consist of 99% of the playable roster in Hoyo games lol
While I love sunday, he is one of my faves, i get not everyone will love sunday, and I’m okay with that coz what he’s done could mean differently based on people experiences, some people hate the mind control stuff etc, for me it’s just another anime/fantasy skill, but he tried to change, while i get it might seems annoying seeing the community so welcoming, i think its good to keep the community positive, even if i hate certain characters, i never said it on internet and keep it to myself coz, that character might have different meaning for others. My fellow sunday fans even sad to know a lot hate him, that’s why some seems annoying supporting sunday. While I dont care much coz these just entertainment and i have real life and everyone have their own likes and dislikes. For me he is more like maruki in persona 5R, not a bad guy and dream of better world but the way he push his ideal world to everyone is wrong..
Maybe because it's fiction and I accept no all justice will be delivered in the world (irl or fiction), plus many criminals like Stellaron Hunters still walk free, his escaping prison does not bother me that much. For accountability and atonement, I don't think stay in prison will change anything. Many of his victims don't know they're victim of his crime. Only IPC, The Family, us....those who fought him. For each person, atonement will be different. For The Family, it's prison. For IPC, Jade freed him. For Nameless, they accept him even though still wary of him. I think he is ready to take accountability later. He said he doesn't know the price for his freedom and he is ready to pay for it. But now he wanted to understand other point of view so he can be better.
SLDJALKJFLA yEA 😅 Good intentions does not always equate to good actions. ye it took me a while to understand that being obedient, law-abiding, and morally/behaviourally rigid doesn't equate to being a good person. Welp, but at least...he's trying...(ish)...he'll get there someday, hopefully?? He just needs a heavy dose of acceptance, self-awareness, and cognitive behavioral therapy
I think a lot of people like him cause he's a handsome sad boy (and I won't lie, he's #1 when it comes to character DESIGN in my book), but he's done so much wrong. I need to see a lot more good progress before completely letting my guard down with him.
@iamemamae well liking him and thinking he is a good person are totally different things Aditionally just personally I havent viewed media from an immersive POV in a long time. He is a fictional character so there is no reason to have my guard up. Maybe ill end up liking or disliking a character but mostly I just try to understand the meaning of it rather than feel it as a reality. The immersive POV is fun though, I wish I could still access it
I am sorry for what you went through, but i feel like your analysis of sunday is a bit different than what hsr wanted to protray. Sunday, has suffered. Being orphaned, having nothing and no one to rely on but his sister. And when gopher wood took him in, showed him an actual life, showed him the order, that it can "help" people, just like it helped sunday and robin, he wanted to follow it. To build an eternal dream, one where a bird can be free, but only in the confines of its cage. Sunday did what he did because he wanted the weak and suffering to have a paradise, one where they wouldnr struggle to survive, one where his sister wouldnt be in danger. But in the end, he realised that, relying in the powers of an aeon to build a paradise, an eternal dream, stripping people of their free will so they wouldnt hurt others, is wrong. He himself, said "I was once 'Bronze melodia', listening to the pleas of thoes who were suffering. Knowing, there were no gods who would save people unconditionally. To change anything, you can only rely on yourself. I will overcome the thorns, I have hears the call. There is always a paradise to be built. Even if, I may melt and fall before reaching it. 'Behold that Vow, like the sun in the sky. One which is not tainted by violence or swayed by argument.' ". He wishes to make amends with the wrong hes done, make a paradise for thoes, but one where a bird doesnt need to be caged in order to suvive. Even if, making this paradise will lead to his downfall.
"I am sorry for what you went through, but i feel like your analysis of sunday is a bit different than what hsr wanted to protray." I'm very aware. Which is why I put at the beginning of the video the disclaimer that this is meant to be an analysis of my nonobjective experience, not necessarily be fully accurate to the intended message of the character.
@iamemamae I respect that, your analysis of his character was really an interesting take to see and a fun perspective, but I just personally feel like he's overhated. But, it's your opinion, and more power to you.
Thank you for making this video. For me Sunday is my mom. I pretty much had the same reaction with Sunday until i understood what he represented. i sometimes really hate how it feels like everyone is in love with him bc it shows how DV can be brush over by everyone else bc some person look pretty, have money and/or a lot power. I still pulled for him bc he is on the express for the moment and do hope that hoyo expand Sunday story bc idk why but 2.7( whatever the latest patch # is) felt kinda flat. not sure why. maybe it bc my feelings lol
Thank you for this video. You've made me realize why I had intense mixed feelings of Sunday as well, and practically hated him with every fiber of my being for a while, but I still pulled for him. After that scene with Aventurine is when he actually made me feel sick. And judging by Aventurine's voice line of Sunday, he hated him for that, too. "Taking a shortcut or two isn't a big deal, but blatantly dipping hands into someone else's pockets - that lacks finesse." He's clearly disturbed by that as well if that is his quote for him. However, Sunday was written as an antagonist. His character, being this complex, was very intriguing to me. His flaws were things that I have always feared I'd have, so I am very interested to see where they go with this character now that he's aboard and if he'd be able to overcome these flaws and redeem himself in some way and truly realize his mistakes. I won't and haven't forgiven him, as Aventurine is quite literally my favorite character. Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer is literally how it felt when I pulled this guy. Regardless, I applaud them for writing such a good character.
Damn. You ever just watch a video from a creator you haven’t watched in a minute, and then it just gets so deep and personal you start crying? Like man, I didn’t even know all those different types of danger responses but I have experienced all of them before especially fight and fawn. Thank you for making this video
I must say i love the video, I love it's content. But aside from that my respect for you in addressing topic so close to yourself, has risen 10 fold. Keep on making content that you can be proud of and I'll stay here enjoying it!
I also have "Sunday" in my life for years. I fought but it hurt me more in the end. I stopped resisting. I started to allow that person to take control. I lost my sense of survival and can no longer feel pain. I guess I'm walking the path of nihility now haha. but thanks to that, I felt indifferent towards Sunday. maybe a little annoyed because after learning about dreamflux reef and hearing about his sister's cause, he's still being the same dumb chicken wing boy. I hope he gets a good redemption arc in amphoreus, or just a character development if it's too much
It may not be my place, but don't stop fighting. Even if it's in quiet little ways that only you know about. There are so many comments here from people who have experienced the same thing and are now working towards being able to live their own lives or already there. You're not alone, and you don't have to resign yourself to it. I wish you all the best.
My favorite characters are Bronya, Serval, and Sushang. I'm really glad you approached this topic with such tact and depth. I've always been neck deep in the Sunday hater camp and it is very enlightening to see a very in-depth dive into the discussion as opposed to the relatively brief and polarized views that the majority of the community seems to have. My reasons for disliking Sunday are very easily summed up by a quote that I saw on another video on Jinx from Arcane: Trauma is an explanation, not an excuse. Sunday's crimes are deep. I was not aware of his actions towards his sister and did not pay much attention to his interaction with Aventurine, but they do not help his case. His upbringing is probably the most sympathetic thing for him, which had flown under my radar. He doesn't have true parental figures, only the family that is more or less using him and his sister for political gains, which is probably the root source of his disconnection from others and extreme bond with Robin. He's been taught from a young age to see only the value in interacting with other people and to see the worst in others which probably also adds to his idea that things should fit into specific and strict categories and should be orderly and sorted the way he sees fit, like a wrestle for any amount of order and control that he can wrestle. As you said, OCD for things to be the 'correct' way, especially for Robin, who he's felt he's needed to protect and nurture. He's likely gotten extremely accustomed to this feeling and has engrained it into his psyche that he is meant to be such for others as well. This is also the crux of my problem with him. When I see Sunday, I see the image of an abusive boyfriend. He means well and has noble intentions, but he never truly sees and listens to those he is close to, yet is very eager to sweep others' protests and beings beneath his own idea of things: He has a deep seated belief that he knows better and he is the only one who can truly protect those he cares for and it's deeply poisoning. I think T.B. Skyen's assessment of Viego is fitting, "Viego is a military parade in Beijing... He is monster, but he is a monster that loves you." He is a consuming black hole, but one with a kind-hearted face and warm embrace. It is extremely tempting to jump into his maw and forget everything else, something that I've grown extremely disheartened over as I've seen many of his fans, including people I know, say things like "YES SATAN TAKE ME AWAY." I think his redemption arc was the final nail in the coffin though. Understanding your failings and wanting to repent is one thing, but escaping almost all accountability ruins it. It seems like he was just able to sweep all his misdoings under the rug and join the good guys and go around the galaxy spreading philanthropy for free. From my perspective, he seems to still believe that he knows best and while he understood he made a mistake, he still doesn't fully understand why what he did is wrong (like the feeling when your friend suddenly blows up because you did something to anger them unintentionally and you apologize but have no idea what you actually did wrong). It comes across like he is insanely arrogant, even if it is truly that he can't understand, which infuriates me because it seems like he's had no real development and as a person and has been forgiven for galactic terrorism. The biblical imagery painting him as HSR Jesus/God really hasn't helped with that. Sorry this turned into a bit of rant, I do have a deep bias against him. I'm really glad you made a video that approaches the issue so deeply and thoughtfully, I feel like it opens up a very good forum for a discussion I've felt has been stalled and very much right vs left. I've had a lot of these thoughts swirling in my head for the longest time and I'm glad I can finally dump them where they might actually spark some discussion.
I kinda disagree with you , the story arch does show that the rest of the astral family is weary of him , they are keeping Thier guard at least until they reach amphorius. Second of all , I believe Sunday was so against choice, because every time he offered a choice / offered help , it usually ended it in 1- death 2- injury 3- someone close getting hurt So he pretty much said "fine then I'll do it myself" and decided to pull and infinite tsukiyomi. And you could see why someone could do something like that. He also flat out admits he did something wrong and that many people won't accept him EVEN IF he tried to redeem himself in penacony so the next thing is to go to amphorius (also is it just me who thinks that if he died in amphorius that would tie up his character arc beautifully ?) he is one of the few HSR characters who are "morally gray" so to speak , and that just shows how well written he is.
@@justadude189 I think you missed the point. I dislike him because he HAS that idea that taking away people's choices is a good thing (he is perpetuating the cycle of lording over other people instead of rising above his traumas and growing as a person). It's understandable that he would make those choices but I can not condone that he has done them, especially after we spent so long during the quest trying to stop him and he just repeatedly waxes poetic about his grand purpose (anyone up for another charmony dove copypasta?) To address the other part, I think he's just taken the easy way out. I think the astral express taking him under his wing is reasonable, but if he were really trying to repent he would not run away from Penacony. Atonement comes from doing right by those you wronged, not running away from them. You must take their hate and rebuild what you destroyed. You have to look at the people you've wronged in the face and take all the hatred and bile they will spew at you. I think that his "they're never going to forgive me anyway so I'll just leave" rationale instead comes across as extremely inadequate and misses the point altogether. He's essentially saying "I don't care what other people think, I will repent in my own way." I will not argue that he is a well written character, but he is not morally gray. His actions are clearly shown as wrong and his repentance being the center of his character makes this very clear cut. I think death is too good for him. If they have to shove him in our faces for Amphorius I hope he really does take a long and arduous path to redemption and eventually comes back to rebuild what he's broken and tries to repair his relationship with Robin.
@@rayzen9600 " I dislike him because he HAS that idea that taking away people's choices is a good thing (he is perpetuating the cycle of lording over other people instead of rising above his traumas and growing as a person)." yeah , that's the point , you are a supposed to hate him, that's what 2.0-2.3 were building up to .... "To address the other part, I think he's just taken the easy way out. I think the astral express taking him under his wing is reasonable, but if he were really trying to repent he would not run away from Penacony." and to address your own pervious point about Sunday being like an abessive boyfriend , this is pretty much him going on a journey to find out what he didn't understand , he's pretty much saying "alright I know I fucked up , But I don't know where , So first I figure out where the f##k I went wrong and then I'll come back", even Robin herself said that sunday needs to take a break and find where he messed up before he comes back to Penacony , and amphoreus specifically being a world who very likely was originally ruled by the Order , could show sunday "hey this is what happens you have your way" "Atonement comes from doing right by those you wronged, not running away from them. You must take their hate and rebuild what you destroyed. You have to look at the people you've wronged in the face and take all the hatred and bile they will spew at you. I think that his "they're never going to forgive me anyway so I'll just leave" rationale instead comes across as extremely inadequate and misses the point altogether." I am sorry I phrased my statement in that way , what I meant that lets say for example he did stay , realistically , he'd get locked up in whatever dream like equivalent to the shackling prison on the loufou , what then ? what changed ? that's just another layer and so on we continue the cycle as well. "I think death is too good for him. If they have to shove him in our faces for Amphorius I hope he really does take a long and arduous path to redemption and eventually comes back to rebuild what he's broken and tries to repair his relationship with Robin." that would be cool , but I do kinda feel that robins line about "meeting again up in the clouds" is a pretty heavy death flag already.
@@justadude189 Don't forget that he also said to us he doesn't know the price for his freedom and if Jade asked him to pay, he is ready. I think this is him trying to take accountability. Like you said, staying in the prison when your sister risked so much to get you free won't change anything. Better try to understand what you did wrong and then pay when it's time for that.
you're both dancing around the point that he essentially wanted to turn everyone in Penacony into Chadwick, a blob of Memoria. A fate worse than death. I suggest you read Scott Base's After Life, as it presents a very realistic idea of what that dream would be like. Say you have a criminal who has killed three people. Do you want him wandering the streets? Do you think if he says he's sorry enough and enough of his friends and family vouch for him that he should be allowed the freedom to run off and kill again if he really wants to? Do you think anything he can do will bring those 3 people back and repair the families he's destroyed? I will not argue that his imprisonment does not change anything nor benefit anyone involved but that is the entire point of being detained; You've proven you can not be trusted to have the freedoms everyone else has, so you will not receive those rights. You don't get your happy ending. You don't get to gallivant around the cosmos giving lip service and essentially feeding your own ego to say you've atoned when you have not served any of your sentence. He fully understood the ramifications of his actions and still committed them. People will say a murderer deserves to rot in prison. People say serial killers should die. Just because Sunday didn't succeed he gets to wander around with our protagonists for free after attempting something several magnitudes of severity worse? He's literally just walking around with a dozen people saying "I'll keep an eye on him." It also doesn't really matter whether or not the judicial system in Penacony is fair or not either. In this isolated case pretty much any punishment they give him is fair given his conspiracy, and further I believe it would make for far more better writing. What has more impact to you? Sunday being allowed to become a martyr or Robin having to visit a shell of a man in prison for the rest of their lives? I'm glad you agree with the fact that he is not a good person in the first patches. He is showing development but that is far too little and far too late, trying to fill ground zero with a shovel. Allowing Sunday to just have a good ending by probably dying and saving the express and a planet is really bad messaging. Changing mindsets and two patches or so of trials before biting the bullet and earning absolution. Blade has been hunting Dan Heng for years because he saved his life imperfectly.
I have not been in the situation where you feel that someone very important is being very controlling over an extended period of time. Maybe that's why I realize there's something off about Sunday but never instinctively felt worried for Robin. If she acts like she's fine then she's fine, and even if she's not what can we do about it while she's keeping up the act?
And THAT is the real difficult part about the fawn response. No-one sees that you're afraid. I don't actually think Robin is scared of her brother, though. That's why I chose to focus more on Aventurine for that section. As controlling as Sunday can be, Robin isn't actually in any legitimate danger from him and knows how to deal with him to get him to stop if it came down to it. As siblings, they are equals and see each other as such. It's different in a parent/child dynamic though.
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I hate Sunday not because of the story it because of his kit
As someone who grew up under the same parenting style but for me it's my mom who was always trying to control everything in my life even if her way led to good results but i am still at the age of 28 don't feel like i have my own self.
Thank you for the vid it's really insightful and it helped me learn something new about myself.
We all hope to find the us that we lost one day. Keep up the good work girl you're doing great 👍
eyy as someone who enjoy Sunday, this is actually feels more objective for me than how Sunday fans and haters tend to analyze his character. they either want him dead during his fall or forget altogether that before he was set on controlling the entire penacony, he's practicing order on Robin first. imo if you have mixed feelings about him, that means his villain role is working!
The whole point of his morality is being someone who was a villain who fell from his untouched throne where trivial emotions and concepts such as freedom werent important as long everyone was happy and now has to see the world as a normal person and experience friendship and problems where his secluted sanctuary guided by the dream master didnt let him to
That's what makes him a good villain.
He's a good guy, is scared of the real world (mentions now that he has no control everything it's scary to him), has great ambitious ideals, and wants everything to do if it means saving his world.
Problem is, he fails at execution since he took the strong protecting the weak too seriously. As someone who also suffered from OCD I can totally understand him. You're scared to lose that person so you'll do anything to have them safe and under your wings but he doesn't understand that Robin walked this despite knowing the dangers and no amount of protection or anything else will stray her away from it.
Practicing order on Robin?? When in the story did it say he ever did that...
@@spyrothetimelordWhen Robin lost her voice, it's because Harmony in Penacony wasn't pure anymore
@@spyrothetimelord I think they meant when Sunday was trying to dissuade her from walking the path of Harmony
Its okay Sunday doesn't like himself either
Noooo
I'm aware :( that only makes it harder
Yeah! But that is *precisely* how he's supposed to feel. He's a complex conflicted character who can't just be described as good or bad, but we just don't really see his journey, so unless you dive deep into reading his lore, you won't really like him that much. But after doing that he's my favourite character now. He feels alive.
this for sure^^^
his character is made to make you feel conflicted, its all intentional- the fact that emamae feels so strongly is literally evidence of this fact lol
Hi
Thank you for being a voice of rationality here. I see so many mischaracterisations of Sunday because people don't know his lore but also the lore of whole Penacony. It all comes together.
Literally me, I used to hate him but now I love him too hehe
Believe me, you're talking to the person who remade the star rail wiki from scratch. I've read almost everything there is to read. I cannot disentangle him from my own experiences, and even if I could I don't think there would be much change. But I do agree - he feels very alive and real, moreso than most other characters in the game so far. They truly put a lot of work into his arc, and I'm excited to see where this goes next.
Remember to be kind to yourselves and to take care of yourselves everyone!!! None of us are disappointments.
Thank you so much.
9:22
I'd argue that Sunday was entirely aware that Robin would lose her ability to sing if his plans succeeded. He definitely knew that her voice was a blessing of the Harmony, and that taking away Harmony means taking away its blessings. The way he reacted to her singing in the final battle against The Embryo of Philosophy further leads me to believe that he was fully aware of what she would have lost in Ena's dream. Though, I don't doubt that he had some kind of plan to give her a *new* voice with the power of the Order, permanently muting his sister is far out of character for him.
I see very cool
Or is it? He was always a hypocrite first and foremost. I can imagine His Assholery just ignoring that little facet of his little plan… I still like him, but he’s an S-rank bellend.
@@emberthecatgirl8796 it's possible that he believes by doing so, he'd free her from the expectations of being a famous singer. In a sense, 'putting her in a cage for her own good'
@ Yeah, like I said, a friggin hypocrite
I hated him the whole time during the quests but at the end he got redeemed somewhat because he did have this cathartic experience and it made him change (that's where this game deviates from life...). He is only starting that process but he faced who he was and tried to change and listened to the Qs life gave him. So now he's okay... Especially as he was groomed to be the way he was, so it was not 100% him being a horrible person.
But yeah, I wanted to punch him in the face a million times and it made it worse that everybody was in love with him...
10:23
I do love how sunday later seems to recognise how limited his perspective is in how robin's dream is an alternate choice on the charmony dove scenario where he considered other options
I like him for this, he recognizes his own hypocrisy but is incapable of going against it until much later.
I think the latest quest was really a brilliant way to progress his Arc, I belive we will see him open up his mind much more during the next trailblazing journeys. As someone who shares these weird feelings towards Sunday, I'm really excited to see how they expand his character next.
Fun facts:
Having argument online is just a turn based strategy game where you wait for the other dude to respond ....and you respond back
Facts bro its like playing clara or yunli u wait for bro to hit u and u already got a 150% counter to strike back with as soon as u get their reply
TRUE
I guess that having arguments on twitter is kinda like playing on Active Time Battle mode. Where you start your response and hope you can finish posting it all before the other dude starts responding to an incomplete point which completely derails the discussion
I both love and hate this XD (you're not wrong)
I suppose the reason most people are more willing to forgive and accept Sunday is because he’s a fictional character. Most players haven’t had the displeasure of living with someone like Sunday for most of their lives. All they see is a character who is very obviously mislead and in desperate need of therapy. And that’s okay. It’s okay to like a morally complex and flawed character. And it’s also okay to be repulsed by that character if said character has too many similarities to a person you know and has hurt you.
For real, that's exact why I don't like him that much and for other reasons.
That and there's a good bit of distance between reality and what arguably is one Sunday's biggest crimes- bringing the Order to Penacony. Not a lot of players really have the experience of being mystically granted their heart's desires through an eternal dream (hopefully none). But the small stuff? Far more relatable even if I can clearly see how he came to his conclusions in what he does.
As someone who has anxiety, I can relate with him. I can understand living with person us, me and him, is difficult and probably traumatic for some people. I also agree with his plan, living in eternal dream, because live in real world is tiring. So if it happened to me, I wouldn't be mad at him. Isn't this the point of Penacony? People go to there for escapism, although not all wants eternal escapism. But I can understand many or most people want their free will. This is exactly Sunday's problem, he didn't ask. If he asked and people agreed, there would be no problem.
No psycho-analysis required, the #1 reason people are willing to forgive and accept Sunday is because they find him attractive lol. Look up the reaction to Wade Wilson, he's not a fictional character.
Im so proud of you Ema. It needs a lot of bravery to tell the internet what you experienced. And I hope the best for you! Also, your words in the end were so inspiring. I'm happy to have found you.
I have to pause the video here at 14:42 to comment on something that I think is...somewhat profound that you said, but that I think lends to Sunday's character. His behavior always has an "excuse", this is certainly true, but I think "excuse" is almost lacking, in psychology it's important to recognize that everyone's perspective makes sense to them. Sundays actions are a sort of natural consequence of his circumstances, even if we believe we may have done differently if we were in his circumstances, his actions do make sense, despite how uncomfortable they make make us, because his circumstances are certainly uncomfortable as well. For example Sundays stifling and protection of Robin, is very normal considering his past of losing his family and Robin being his only family left, and her near death experience, the fear of loosing the most important person would make most people treat Robin the way Sunday did, you only need to see how parents treat their children to see just how normal a reaction it is. Now, normal doesn't mean good, but just because a treatment isn't good, doesn't mean it's malicious, which I don't think Sunday is malicious. Even looking for vulnerable traumatic information on Aventurine, is understandable in the circumstances that Adventurine is the threat Sunday believes him to be.
Going to add comments as I progress through the video because I do think it's interesting. I do think we run into a culturally difficult problem when it comes to abuse, abusers and victims. I think an interesting conversation to be had for example when you mentioned no one brings up the impact that sunday had on his victims, is likely not because people haven't been in similar positions as Robin or adventurine, as yourself have, but rather the strength that both Robin and Adventurine posses. Robin in particular embodies emotional and mental strength fantastically. People probably don't talk about it because Robin doesn't talk about it, and why would she? Robin, has had traumatic experiences, been treated poorly, but has managed to heal through those things, especially with the help of the express crew, but mostly because of her own compassion. Her compassion to be able to love Sunday regardless of how he had treated her, and her confidence that she knows that she is right and he is wrong, shows just how much stronger of a person she is than her brother, in Penacony, it's not Sunday who saves and protects Robin, but Robin that saves and Protects Sunday. That compassion that Robin possesses is because she knows true humility, is is the case with many healed individuals with Trauma, and her love for her family is stronger than any harm done to her.
I think it could be the case that a portion of your discomfort/dislike of Sunday like you mentioned is tied to your own experiences with your father. I could especially see it being uncomfortable if you see Robin forgiving and loving Sunday, if you haven't maybe exactly parsed through all those feelings with your father or you did and came to a different conclusion of your relationship with him. That is to say, would you feel different about Sunday, if he "got what he deserved" if Robin maybe instead of embracing her brother despite his flaws and treatment of her, rejected him. Not saying you would, but as someone who doesn't know your story or history, I am curious about what you might be experiencing, or what would need to happen to Sunday, for your discomfort to fade. I know some of my comments may have come off as aggressive but that is certainly not my intention.
@@Titanhart33 This is important what you bring up here, because of the contrast of Robin's and Sunday's influences. Robin was travelling and meeting with people, Sunday was the one who got caged and he was just walking in circles (he says it himself). He didn't have any other perspective as he was robbed of it, being a puppet of Order. Now he finally can gain this perspective for himself and there is a good chance that, with the help of the Express, he will finally spread his wings and become who he was supposed to be from the beginning
@@Titanhart33i’ve also had trauma that sunday brings up feelings over. not the same experiences as this person but still significant. i like your points here, and i also think personally that i wouldn’t like sunday unless he became a fully different character. i recognize that’s because of my trauma. he’s well written and is an excellent character, but my discomfort with him won’t fade, just because of him being essentially a character-shaped symbol of a lot of what has happened to me. and i’m okay with that! i absolutely encourage others to like him and respect his place in the story, but i just can’t like him due to my own experiences in life. again, my situation is different than ema mae’s, but i wanted to share my thoughts on your comment
also, though robin and Sunday were both raised by Gopher Wood, they still held opposing beliefs. It atleast implies that Sunday, and Robin were raised differently (nature vs. nurture)
which is why Sunday was so easy to emotionally blackmail/indoctrinate: because of his sensitive, and empathetic nature. Further creating his cognitive biases of the world, enforced by the order's meta narrative
It is kind of wild knowing that a content creator I respect a lot has had similar struggles to myself. Thanks for sharing this more sensitive and genuine side of the mask. Take care of yourself Ema and everyone else who is reading this. Choice is the one thing everyone deserves to have. And it should never be taken from you.
Before I begin with what essentially ended up becoming my Sunday thesis I want to say Hi @iamemamae, i'm a big fan of your videos, particularly your theories and the work that goes into them. This is quite a long response to your video but I hope you will read it all the same. If you do, thank you for your time :)
I find that you have fundamentally misunderstood Sunday's motivations, and even his actions, to some extent. I think 10:20 is a good place to start:
Sunday and Robin DID fix the wing -- they nursed the bird to perfect health as it was weak and frail besides, only letting it free after. And yet, despite all these efforts, the bird tried and tried to fly, until it ultimately crashed to its demise -- its wings shattered and this story ending where it began. But perhaps the phrase "fix the wing" was meant metaphorically; indeed, you use Nous's ascension as an example to illustrate that the world of HSR is not limited in the way ours is.
Perhaps with Abilities from the Paths, they could've imparted the bird with a way to succeed 100% of the time. Unfortunately, that too misses the point: You see, this story about a Charmony Dove isn't about a single bird at all, whether that bird be an actual bird, or Robin, or any specific creature or individual. This story is an allegory for our societal structure and its expectations -- of survivorship bias and those who fall through its cracks. The Charmony dove crashed to its death because flight was what was expected of it by virtue of being a bird. Similarly, we expect that everyone should be able to drive, to pass their classes and graduate High School or College, or to find a job, a partner -- what we call life. Those who fail to meet these expectations (of which we tie our self worth to as Sunday also mentions -- more on that later) which we take for granted are the birds that crash down to their demise: This is the who Sunday refers to when he talks about the Weak.
The Strong, naturally, are the "Heroes" (Sunday's word) we play as; those privileged with abilities that allow them to comfortably meet the expectations of Flight, so to speak.
So yes, perhaps Sunday and Robin -- as the Strong to the Dove's Weak -- could've found a way to save the creature from crashing to its death, but it wouldn't change the reality that countless others of the Weak will crash under the shadow of the Strong. It is a reactive solution to a problem that requires a proactive one; think of it in terms of the Give a Man a Fish adage.
Of course, this is but the first quandary Sunday presents us with that informs his philosophy; it is only after all 3 stories have happened that he comes to the realizations I've touched on, of which expand on and add more to his Philosophy, so let's move on to the next one.
The next Story sees Sunday as Bronze Melodia -- a role of which he serves as part of the Harmony (Oak Family) in which he listens to the problems and vexations of the Dreamscape residents to provide them with guidance. He highlights specifically his meeting with an illegal stowaway who sacrificed everything -- including selling his two sons to slavery so they could at least eat-- and yet must face persecution from the Bloodhound Family. Sunday, hoping to "fix the wing", wields his influence from his position in the Harmony to call off the members of the Bloodhound Family.
We can observe definitive proof of the link between the first dilemma and this current one in Sunday's Character Story II which (I will use ellipses to condense the message) reads:
"To my dearest sister... It's probably for the best that you're not coming back right now. Penacony has changed... Entrepreneurs have imposed extremely unreasonable working hours to monopolize the industry, forcing workers in the Dreamscape to work twelve-hour shifts before they can take a break - only to receive meager paychecks in return... Recently, a stowaway approached me for help, explaining that he had spent everything he had just to stay on Penacony, only to be discovered by the Bloodhound Family. He assured me that he would repay all his debts later, which is why I asked the Bloodhound Family to show him some leniency. However, every time I consider how many others like him there are on Penacony, I can't help but wonder if everyone has the opportunity to make the right choices."
Indeed, you can see here Sunday beginning to realize that his ability to help with his power and influence in the Harmony is but a reactive solution, and many Doves will still crash to their demise, so to speak. But as you might recall, the story of the stowaway doesn't end here, as after some time Sunday meets this Stowaway once again, after he was able to make make of himself a successful entrepreneur. However, the man ends up arrested nonetheless, as it turns out he is guilty of attempting to usurp the Head of the Alfalfa family. Sunday was finally able to "save the Charmony Dove", but unfortunately, humans are not doves. The expectations we cast on each other as a society are intertwined with our Human consciousness, which Sunday criticizes as an illusion -- "a cage known as "self-worth". People lured in by this illusion, make mistakes, yet still ask that external influences bear the burden. When one mistake after the next permeates the masses, they become impossible to trace... Thus, the amassing of these individual cages culminate to form a prison, a place dictated only by the rule of "survival of the fittest." (Sunday then champions the Order as the antithesis to this law of Nature, which might lead you to believe he servers Order, but Order is mere a piece of the puzzle that is his answer to the Human Nature problem, I'll expand on this at the end.)
When Sunday asks the now arrested stowaway "What of your children?" The man replies: "What children?. This eats at the Bronze Melodia, as in trying to do a good deed aligned with the Harmony, he was lied to and manipulated in what culminated in his mind as a bad deed instead. But the reason he shares to us this story isn't to tell us to not trust in people or to never help anyone because they might be liars; it's to inform the former quote about "survival of the fittest". The importance doesn't lie in the man lying, it lies in the reason why he lied: Human expectations define our self-worth and inform our desires and through that culminates adversity, and because of that adversity, discord foments between our fellow Man, and the Harmony fails. To fully expand on this point, let's move on to the final story Sunday shares with us. (1/2)
(2/2) In this final story, we see Sunday presented with a letter from Robin by courtesy of Gopher Wood, containing innocent trivialities, but informing him of where she is touring: Kasbelina-VIII.
Gopher Wood informs Sunday that Robin omitted the fact that she was shot by a stray bullet, and that she specifically chose to tour in Kasbelina-VIII because of the war. She wishes to spread the word of the Harmony and save the lives of that planet.
Many come away from this thinking the point of this story is that it motivates Sunday to want to cage his sister like the Charmony Dove, but i hope you've come to understand that Sunday at this point is beyond such a reactive response. You would be forgiven for interpreting the final choice Sunday presents as evidence of the former, but the way he delivers it and how it is phrased on the screen show that this is an abstract choice too. Sunday doesn't ask "would you stop Robin" but rather asks "Would you still support Robin's journey on the path of Harmony?" caveating this question as not a real choice he had to make, but a figment of imagination, a haunting nightmare. This is all key word choice as the screens also show: "Would you support Robin on her journey" and "Stop Robin from going on her journey" Given the wording and caveating, these choices are really about Sunday's regrets of either not staying with his sister under the path of Harmony or not telling her about his turn away from it and not trying to convince her to join him. None of these could ever realistically happen; Sunday is completely disillusioned with the Harmony and its failings, and Robin is so committed to her path that she is willing to take bullets for her ideals. This circles back to why Sunday chose to tell us this story. As shown in a previous quote, Sunday sees our current broken system as a cage, and sees his solution as Freedom (7 rest days, more on that soon.). Robin being shot trying to do good with the Harmony shows Sunday yet another failing of the path, and THAT is the reason he chose this final story. This isn't just me extrapolating -- here is the direct quote: " I share this in meager hope that you will understand the Harmony's limitations and predicament. As grandiose as "the Strong defending the Weak" sounds, many times, it is nothing more than wishful thinking." Indeed, almost losing his sister due to the flaws of the Harmony is the final revelation that informs his Philosophy; you can't just "fix the wing." Human discord will grow so strong that it'll inevitably culminate in war and murder. (Small side-track but still relevant to one of your claims: the fact that Sunday didn't even know where she was before this letter and similar letters in his character stories tells me he isn't her manager forcing this on her. in fact, as you see, Robin specifically chose to tour there herself, and did so precisely because war has broken out in that planet, another fact Sunday was unaware of before the Dreammaster told him.)
What if we could eliminate this very adversity that leads Humanity to lie, cheat, steal, sacrifice and murder one another? Fulfil everyone's desires -- would that put an end to a world where people have to suffer? If you could come up with a plan to truly put an end to Human suffering; murder, to war, to genocide, to capitalistic abuse, to starvation -- would you not feel obligated to do it? while you worry over if everyone will approve people are dying, starving, and suffering every single day. If a God exists that could , in all their power, solve these problems, would you not look upon them in contempt for allowing the senseless pain to go on?
Sunday's answer to the spirit of these questions -- his proactive solution to the philosophical problem of Human Nature-- is to create a God. One that he knows for sure will bring about the end of all suffering he wishes to see through. One that will bring about true freedom in his eyes: a life where people are free from the law where the strong prey on the weak. He attempts to help illustrate this with an example -- the rest days we call weekends. In a weekend, you are free to pursue your passions and live happily, free from the adversity the expectations found in work or school. He says that in weekends "Some gaze at reverence at the stars, pouring their whole beings into calculating the distance between us and the isolated world of Pegana. Meanwhile some seek refuge in quiet corners, holding one another, unencumbered by the chains of unwelcome obligations." We can gleam from this quote that, aside from not giving a choice to the people about entering his envisioned world, he will not strip people of all free will like the Order, but rather specifically the choice that will be taken away is the one between running from, or tackling adversity head on, to potentially reap the rewards overcoming it grants. (I think this is the discussion people should be having regarding this story and Sunday, about whether or not Adversity is so crucial to the human experience -- the "self" -- as firefly puts it, that you cannot simply get rid of it, regardless of the bloody and cruel world it allows to exist.) When Sunday says that 7 rest days is the ideal system, he doesn't mean it literally, as that would carry with it the consequences not working or studying would have on our current system, he just aims to illustrated what a world without adversity might FEEL like.
The God Sunday chooses for his plan is not Ena the Order -- no, Ena, like our little charmony dove, is destined to fail, its path doomed to be consumed by the Harmony, and the Harmony is too limited to address the plight of Penacony and Sunday's vision. To ensure that his vision for peace is realized "The cost is minute, merely a personal... and eternal sacrifice. If this paradise is to be maintained for everyone, someone must remain trapped in solitary wakening, until the end of the cosmos." He resolves to do it himself; he usurps Septimus, Emanator of the Harmony, in hopes to combine such power with the Order. The boss description reads: "Using the Harmonious Choir as a foundation, the power of Order and Harmony intertwine to form the shell of an egg, within which the newborn god slumbers." Sunday was about to create seemingly a new path, founded upon, but free from the limitations of both the Order and the Harmony. Except for, you know, the fact that it'll all take place in a dream. None of it is "real". Or is it? What is "reality?" Sunday seems to think it is Nature: survival of the fittest. Indeed, society, laws, relationships -- these things are only as real as we want them to be. And yet, these are the things are very lives are built on. And in that sense, is it really all that different from a dream?
And thats the end of my Yapfest. I put much more effort into this than I expected to but I really respect your theory videos and all the effort that goes into parsing the game's lore and info and the critical thinking that it requires (it reminds me of the old Game Theory days). As a result I figured you'd be receptive to a message like this, also done in the spirit of getting this game right and meeting it where it is at. Sunday is my favorite character (2.Jingyuan and 3.Seele) and I weep inside when I see him --not necessarily misrepresented-- but evaluated without the full picture. My purpose in writing this wasn't to make you or anyone like the character, but just to meet him where he is at: A (progressive) Philosopher King.
If you (or anyone) read all the way here I want to thank you for taking the time to listen to my rambling :)
Please, do let me know your thoughts. (2/2)
@@PhantomRAQ50 holy, thank you so much for ur analysis on Sunday!! U put everything that I thought abt him so perfectly its kinda scary haha
As someone who also loves to overthink abt these 'Charmony doves', Sunday's char speaks to me so much. He contemplates abt the societal fate between Strong and Weak. How there will always be a disharmony between them and stemming from his empathetic nature (as shown from childhood flashback) he truly wanted to do smth to save these ppl.
Yet he was also a victim to abuse nd manipulation that he himself was blinded by such a narrow view implanted to him by Gopher.
Robin was able to widen her views and mind, yet Sunday continued to grew only inside the controlled capacity allowed by Gopher.
He's just so damn compelling that it makes me regard him as a char so lovingly
@@bubblesparks Thanks for taking the time to read, and I am glad to hear it resonated with you. :)
I definitely have to go back and analyze his scenes with Gopher Wood too before I have a strong opinion on the dynamic. Sunday seemingly used him and the order too, choosing to usurp the revival of Ena for the birth of his own Philosophy.
I also noticed a completely messed up the copy pasting and it resulted in half of the comment submitting twice. I went ahead and fixed that, but apologies if that caused any confusion.
I am just glad to find comments like yours that really take the time to understand the full nuance of Sunday and also don't manage to misinterpret what he says (thinking about that old Sunday eugenics thread on Twitter someone went off on...).
Robin also pretty much implies/states that she and Sunday were straight up taught different things. Gopher Wood literally saw their outlooks on life and took advantage of Sunday's already more sensitive/fragile (weak-) viewpoint and ran with it. When we find his notebook, she says she knows it's his because it's his handwriting but she doesn't recognize any of those scriptures/hymns at all. So Sunday was being trained gradually away from Robin. People somehow seem to think "why did Sunday turn out that way" etc.
Also I just appreciate seeing someone who recognizes that he's not controlling and manipulative of Robin. That really, the only time he seems to have for sure done anything was when he trapped her in the dream in the current story, but she was *there* so unless he found some way to get her back off planet during what she might have believed was a normal celebratory event... it would be hard for him to get around this. So many people saw him dust off her halo in her demo and were like "ah yes, the sis con who is overbearing" and it is like no I literally can't keep reading 😭😩
The only problem with Sunday is that he's imaginary.
What's wrong with that ???
@@saritagupta6679 look at how man imaginary men we have compared to every other element
@@saritagupta6679 too many imaginary men
@@AverageIRLenjoyersolos ohhhh
Men aren't real
(XD)
Hoooo boy! I didnt think my early diagnosis OCD vs OCPD scare would come back to me in an HSR video of all places.
I'll be real -- i've re-written this comment so many times. So many tangents and paragraphs about how Sunday's suit ritual seemed more an expression of perfectionism than a ritualistic compulsion done for the sake of distracting some underlying anxiety. So three cents from the OCD haver:
- people with OCD haaaaaate addressing their compulsions. At best, they're embarrassing; at their worst, people harm or neglect themselves to the point of hospitalization to avoid falling into the obsessive thoughts. Sunday's speech to Aventurine about his suit ritual has always stuck out to me as his most blatant expression of an OCD symptom in the main story. An underwhelming, but typical method of exposition to the audience that feels lil like a "Yes! THIS guy. He's """OCD""" about his morning clothing routine". Mostly, because he explains his ritual as a boast against Aventurine -- a mark of pride, a ritual he does to PROVE his station as the Head of the Oak Family and imo, an explicit distinction of class laid at the feet of an known Avgin refugee. Not really on Sunday or writers (just yet), man was going through it and obsessions and the anxieties behind them take time to unravel. Seems we'll be seeing more of the man in Amphoreus, all the more time to see other compulsions manifest or see obsessions come up to the forefront in the main story.
- Wonweek as a walking, talking intrusive thought made manifest. Expounding on Sunday's every possible doubt regardless if they are relevant or logical to worry in his current situation. Fantasies of breaking laws that your younger self naively set up in some illogical fashion from years ago -- beating yourself up all the while for essentially being a teenager given a lawless theme park to run. Impulsively (thinking of) eating dream ice cream and burgers despite knowing the consequences. Rehearsing and preparing for every imaginable outcome for a final farewell to a loved one. A giant showdown where Sunday gets to metaphorically beat their intrusive thoughts into some sorta coherent lesson that isnt a snarky Pepeshi -- a fight that only Sunday can truly resolve for himself. Sounds like a day long compulsive thought spiral to me -- one that conveniently distracts chicken wing boi from his underlying anxieties about being cast out of his home indefinitely by his own sister, at the IPC's "mercy".
But who knows, maybe journaling in that empty diary of his will help him like I was prescribed to do when if i ever caught myself in the middle of a compulsion.
TLDR; OCPD? Absolutely. It's more accurate to what people THINK OCD is about (perfectionism, cleanliness, etc.) and therefore most likely what hoyo was inadvertently going for.
Actual OCD? I probly need to brush up some codexes but I'd love some main story rep
His suit ritual actually imposed to him but The Family. It's part of his learning, if I'm not wrong. He talked about that in his voice or where I forget.
@@akarifuyuki9763 I don't think the entire family goes by that ritual. In fact, there's at least one readable (2 actually, if I remember right) where they talk about how he's had to undergo treatment cause his compulsions got so intense.
Thank you so much for this comment. I'm still learning so much about OCPD and trying to understand it, and so it helps to know I'm at least on the right track with some of this. There's even more OCD than I thought though - from his suit ritual to Dreammaster and Robin actually talking about him having to get treatment at one point in some readables. I kinda wish they'd go into more detail with some of this, but they gave us enough information to explain some of what's going on.
I agree with your points. Sunday is a person who did terrible with mostly good intentions and that’s what I like about him. It makes him incredibly interesting and that’s the main reason why I really like him and he’s basically my favorite character.
Honestly, I was too caught up in the philosophy of what Sunday was doing to take a step back and think about what he left behind. This video was super interesting, thank you for putting in so much effort to make it.
gray-area people and characters like these are always such a difficult topic
you have to be both sympathetic AND critical in a relatively balanced way and a lot of people, especially in recent years, REALLY struggle to juggle, there's greater tendencies to only pick one side to begin with and entirely discard anything else, or to attempt juggling multiple perspectives but inevitably drop the side(s) they least align with
Sunday for me is the PERFECT portrayal of a character I both adore and despise with my whole chest, for differing and identical reasons, he's infuriating, yet I love him
You described it very well.
Thank you for opening up about such a sensitive topic, seriously
I can definitely relate to parts of what you mentioned, esp the part when you brought up fawn. Glad you were able to get out how you felt about this.
So sad there won't be any more videos for 2025 tho o7
I always like watching your stuff
But fr, can't wait to see what else you put out this year. Onward, to 20k!
There will be SO MANY MORE videos this year! XD I'm glad you liked it
after watching this video and hearing your personal experience, I really had to stop and think about how I felt about Sunday. I definitely agree, people should choose how they should live either way, no other person should choose how you should live except you. My family has such high expectations of me because of my brother and his goals and achievements. I see myself becoming more like the old Sunday, playing piano, forcing others into what I think is best, and just now noticing I feel awful. This video like ACTUALLY changed on the ways I see a person especially my parents. I use to think that they just the best for me, but growing up and getting older and realized how reality treats you ive definitely been becoming someone who I dont want to be. Sundays character is just so…. complex I don’t know how to describe it. But I hope he gets more character development, and that I will change.
Actually crying. It means so much to me to know people are gaining better understanding of theirself and their situation because of this. I really hope you find the space that belongs to you.
I didn't like him at first but Sunday grew on me. He reminds me of certain things.
One. Catholic/Christian representation that's not all sanctimonious and stereotypical. Not all priests are perfect.
I used to work for Catholic priests and Sunday reminds me of some of them. They get mad, frustrated, sad etc.
Not all of them are old. Some priests are young too. In most media priests are depicted as old guys with glasses.
Two. The colors he wears. He wears a lot of blue, white and gold. Those are the colors of the Jesuits. Latin for Society of Jesus. That's the order of Catholic priests I worked for.
Three . The major sacrifices they make. They take a vow of celebacy. Meaning no romantic love or children of their own.
I know a priest who got kicked out of his own family because his dad wanted him to continue the family's bloodline, name and business.
Four . Combat. Some priests do serve in the Military and Police Force. Some of the priests I know are military chaplains and police chaplains. So Sunday being a supportive fighter unit makes sense.
Just out of curiosity, are these why you like him ? Or dislike him ?
@@justadude189 lol I had the same question. I kind of assumed it was both why they disliked him at first (maybe the negative parts of their religious upbringing) but also found some relatively accurate representation/parallels, which gave them a more personal understanding of Sunday as a character? (just guessing)
Sunday is a character I strongly relate to, because our mentality is very similar, as well as our ideas. Despite me seeing many flaws in his plan, I can't help but feel scared that in another world, if fate was just a bit more cruel to me, I could have become someone like him... Sunday is my favourite character, but I still have mixed feelings about him. I acknowledge his flaws, while seeing some of his ideas in my own thoughts
Mhm one of my closest friends also loves Sunday and we've had some really good talks about it. I also love hearing the others in the comments who relate to him explain why. I love that Hoyoverse created this character which means so many different things to so many different people. Sunday, no matter how you feel about him, is a masterpiece of fiction.
Sunday and Robin's relationship and them as individuals are some of my favorite parts of HSR, because I find them really fascinating and relatable to my own life. And this video made me, I don't wanna say appreciate, but made them even more interesting to me. And I'm glad you have benefited personally from this channel too. Wish you the best for the new year.
I love morally gray characters 🗣️🗣️🗣️🔥🔥🔥
Me too honestly. He's very well written. Just hits my triggers wrong xD
@ completely understandable, there's characters like that for me too
I am so sorry to hear that you went through all of that, and I hope that making this video has helped you understand yourself more. If not, thank you at least for helping me understand more of Sunday's character.
I think it is interesting that Sunday is essentially, one of the few villains in Hoyoverse that lacks fundamental self-awareness. In the 2.2 story, or at least from what I understood of it, Sunday's idea of removing "choice" was based off the idea of determinism, that people's "self-worth" would cause them to make bad choices that continues the cycle of abuse. This mainly shown through the Sunday's little historical reenactment of Penacony before his first boss fight, and through Cocona's quest "Envision a Rose Forthcoming". In that quest, Cocona is made to believe by her parents and her coworkers that her worth as a person is determined by her commercial success, which leads to her throwing away her metaphorical "ego". I am guessing that from Sunday's point of view, the issue of self-choice was that, because of deterministic influence, victims invariably choose to continue being victims, and unlike you, would not be able to break out the cycle of abuse. So I find it thematically interesting that in his method of trying to break the cycle of abuse, Sunday ends up continuingit , and I also find it fitting that his 2.7 quest ended with him realizing that he need to understand the world (accidental pun) more in order to break the cycle.
Sorry if this comment is a bit long-winded, I just found this interesting. Hope you feel better.
I like what you said about him lacking self-awareness. And that itself is kind of strange given how often he talks about self-reflection in 2.7. He doesn't understand what he did yet. I hope someday he does.
Obligated “One day, after dinner, while my younger sister and I were lounging about in Mr. Gopher Wood's yard, we spotted a fledgling Charmony Dove all on its own. That baby bird was tiny, it didn't even have all of its feathers, and it couldn't sing. When we found it, it was already on its last breath, having fallen into a shrub - probably abandoned by its parents. We decided to build a nest for it right there and then. However, thinking back, that winter was unusually cold, with fierce winds at night in the yard, not to mention the many poisonous bugs and wild beasts in the vicinity... It was clear that if we left the fledgling in the yard, it stood no chance of surviving until spring. So, I suggested we take it inside, place it on the shelf by the window, and asked the adults to fashion a cage for it. We decided that when it regained its strength enough to spread its wings, we would release it back into the wild. The tragic part - something that we'd never considered - was that this bird's fate had already been determined long before this moment... Its destiny was determined by our momentary whim. Now, I pass the power of choice to you all. Faced with this situation, what choice would you make? Stick to the original plan, and build a nest with soft net where the Charmony Dove fell? Or build a cage for it, and feed it, giving it the utmost care from within the warmth of a home? I eagerly await your answer.” comment
Edit: On a slightly more serious note, great analysis! I never really think much about character analysis, simply because I never felt attached with them emotionally, or even philosophically. Their introductions into the story were done pretty dirty by Hoyo imo. It’s a great thing content creator like you exist so that I can connect with these characters more. That being said, I still hate Sunday. Broski talked too much.
XD If it didn't happen at least once, I was gonna be so mad XD
Feel free to read me to filth! My favorite 4 characters (don’t make me pick lol) are Firefly, Robin, Sunday, and Aventurine.
I definitely have a different reading of Sunday/Robin’s relationship from you in that I think of them very much as victims of circumstance. He’s shown to be polishing her halo but the way I understand that is that he cares about her a lot and halos are likely only handled by people very close to them. He’s never told Robin to *be* perfect iirc so much as she puts that standard on herself because she feels the need to inspire others. Sunday does push her to the spotlight but that’s because he believes that’s where she’ll thrive and she does. She just feels trapped from the pressures with it (even then, in her character stories, it is said that she took a break from her career at one point from having lost faith that her music was helping so she has and can stop if she truly needed to). And Sunday probably should have noticed this discomfort! But he was probably busy having all of his stuff with Gopher Wood. When Robin says that Sunday used to have a sweet tooth and would steal all her desserts when they were younger and seems concerned about how much he’s changed, I believe they’ve likely grown distant over the years. So I doubt he was her manager. (Sunday’s character stories go over the letters he’s sent to her over the years as though they have little contact outside of that as well) Robin hasn’t told Sunday about the pressures she feels because she doesn’t want to disappoint him, and Sunday doesn’t tell her about his troubles with how he doesn’t think the Harmony is the path to their goal anymore because he doesn’t want to disappoint her. So when Robin finally sees what’s wrong in 2.2, the person closest to him was finally able to help. And hopefully, she will also have some sort of relief in the future.
So… yeah this is how I see them, thank you for reading 😂 I do agree that him wanting to keep Robin caged up was not good, but I don’t believe he ever expressed it/showed it outside of 2.2 (considering how surprised Robin is by this shift and by Sunday’s character stories). It’s understandable how you see him the way that you do though, and I’m glad to see this perspective. It def gives more insight into why someone might not like him as a Sunday enjoyer myself. Thank you for sharing your experience with us, it probably wasn’t easy
Thank you for this comment among the others. I also don't agree that Sunday was trying to cage Robin by supporting her career. He swore to her that he will support her because she did want it as a child. He built that stage for her after her teacher scolded her that she was bad at singing. That's why he directed her video. He wanted to make sure that it was perfect because he loved her, not because he wanted to control her. That song is based on a lullaby he sang for her.
Their downfall starts when they are separated but not because of Sunday but because of the plans that GW had for him. Robin's trailer shows her struggles but again not because of her brother 's control. Its the reality of a singer. Sunday had his own problems and Robin didn't support him in those at all. He was left all by himself with too much put on his shoulders. Their problem is separation and lack of communication. In the end Robin realises what happened but it is too late. Her brother already went astray because he had nobody to change his perspective.
It saddens me that people don't understand that.
@ It’s really unfortunate that a lot of their story and context behind their relationship is locked behind reading that most of the fandom won’t do
One note - Sunday did tell Robin she needed to be perfect (or rather he was talking to Sparkle who was pretending to be Robin, but he did say it to Robin's face).
Ooo...Robin, Firefly, Sunday, and Aventurine. That's really interesting...let me see. You are free-spirited and open, but there are parts of yourself you are deeply protective of, and are afraid what will happen when people see them. All the same, you are deeply compassionate and you understand other peoples' pain easily.
@ Right, I forgot about that. Though I still think he’s in one of his worse moments towards her here. Like. He’s confused because he knows she’s already supposed to be dead (maybe he thinks he’s hallucinating at first), his plans for the Order coming back are falling apart, etc etc. The way I interpret that scene is actually that he’s more talking to himself than to Robin, especially because he’s able to pick up on how that can’t actually be Robin pretty quickly. And with how stressed he is.
Also dang, you’re good. Only thing I’d add is that I *want* to be more free-spirited and follow my heart more lol
Yeah that is probably the harshest we ever see him with her, and given everything that just happened he's probably fraying at the scenes a bit and trying very hard not to. Either way, it was a moment that made me bristle when I first heard it, cause I've had it directed at me before. I do feel bad for Sunday there especially. Even after finding out Robin isn't dead, he's still had to like...begin the grief process. That kind of thing doesn't just go away, even though she's back. He's dealing with so much on a psychological and physical level in that update where he goes all Dominicus.
First and foremost I would like to thank you for this video as it had to be a very difficult experience for you. It gave me insight into some things about this character that I didn't notice.
I have two things to note, although it probably doesn't matter to anyone but I will still write it because I can 😅
Firstly - Robin and Sunday are NOT twins. It's a metaphor used by Gopher Wood. Sunday is many times referred to as an older brother and I doubt it's because he was born 2 seconds before his sister. In every video where they are shown as kids, he is taller. It changes a lot actually because he feels responsible for Robin and he himself emphasises his role as an older brother who should clear a path for his sister to safely walk on. Despite trusting her, he is aware that there are things only he knows and he does want her to be freed from those burdens (This is from his answers to our questions on AE)
Secondly - I don't agree with your opinion that Sunday controlled Robin and made her a singer. Robin wanted to be a singer from childhood. She wasn't pushed into that role by Sunday. Those scenes when he directs her first music video show his love and care for her, not that he wants to cage or control her. Why I do know that? Because, when they were children, Robin was told by her teacher that her singing was bad. Her brother built a stage for her to encourage her to sing and promised her she would realize her dream. He believed in her. This is why he is there with her while they record her music video, not because of some nefarious controlling need. Ofc, he is definitely making sure everything is precisely like it should be but not because he wants to cage her. In this particular video, he is helping her to realise her dream. The song she sings is based on a lullaby Sunday sang for her as well.
The two siblings are later separated when Robin starts touring and they only communicate via letters. Robin has little knowledge of what her brother is going through and she later admits that she let herself fall into the role of a younger sister and didn't support her brother enough. Only after Sunday's downfall, did she realise he was excruciatingly lonely. He was clinging to memories of his sister for his dear life. She was the only good true thing in his life. Only after everything ends, Robin decides to finally take care of her brother and support him as he did for her earlier.
We cannot forget that Robin was in fact the one who was free despite the that she had to deal with paparazzi but it is something popular people have to deal with. And again it's not because her brother made her do that. It allowed her to shape her opinions freely as she was meeting with people. Sunday on the other hand, was closed in a cage and used from the beginning as a puppet of the Order. He was walking in circles as he said himself and was unaware of it. Since childhood, he was subjected to the influence of order as well. He was the "chosen one", not Robin. It was Gopher Wood's plan from the beginning and it was clearly said.
Everyone talks about the scene with Aventurine and I am fed up with it tbh. There is so much Sunday is going through at this point that most of us would go insane and he is still carrying on. I am not excusing him in any way, but I am trying to understand. Aventurine also is not the good guy here but nobody really thinks about it. And Sunday has his rights to see him as suspicious because it wasn't the Family who invited IPC but Gallagher.
Of course, there is this scene where Sunday is wondering if he should stop his sister from singing because it's dangerous for her, but it is very human to do so, and not because he is mentally ill. After my father died when I was 16, my mother completely changed and became overprotective to the verge of toxicity. She was so afraid she could loose me too that she discouraged me from any outside activities which partially ruined my youth. Do I say she is a bad person? No, absolutely not. I understand her, and here I also understand Sunday.
And lastly - Sunday trapping Robin in a dream is a thing, because she discovered that he trapped her because he changed the charmony dove story for one he thought his sister would prefer. Because he always thought he wasn't good for her and was a failure. It is heartbreaking tbh as she never viewed him this way. But I doubt she would lose her voice as the dream was supposed to be free of Aeons. Sunday would definitely make sure she can sing because it was her biggest dream and he helped her to realise it earlier.
Let's not forget it was his promise WITH HIS SISTER that led to what he has done. He is extremely dedicated and loving. It saddens me that he is brought down to be a guy with mental illness. There is so much more to him than that.
But it is just my opinion as well that you probably won't read anyway but I had to voice it out. Peace, and I hope we will have a good character development of Sunday in the story because he's the most interesting and well-written character imo.
I absolutely understand your points, I relate to many of them too.
Being a victim of circumstance doesn't automatically make one blameless or wiped of wrongdoings; at the same time, recognizing and condemning one's actions doesn't automatically make one an evil villain, nor should it lessen the compassion we approach their situation with. Of course, Sunday has all the rights to be wary and distrustful of people who are at opposition with what he's trying to protect, and yes he's going through a lot, but there are various shades of accountability and some inexcusable lines to cross, even when it comes to high-emotional-duress interactions. Hurt people hurt people.
Maybe Sunday didn't mean to be the controlling mastermind behind Robin's social pressure, but we also can't ignore the perspectives of people who had choice/freedom taken away from them, or felt pressure to live up to someone's high expectations or perfectionism. For instance, imagine a sibling who is perfectionistic in their academic levels may not have the intention to cause harm to another sibling's mental health, but their tendencies and high self-expectations naturally overflow onto the other sibling, who feels the effects nonetheless. One angle would be that the achieving sibling is just trying to help their other sibling and is also a victim of their own, say, tiger parents. Another angle would be that the achieving sibling should develop awareness of the cycle and realize that the tunnel mindset they use to discipline themselves has a very harmful effect on those around them.
The main contention I wanted to bring to light, though, is simply how you phrased "He is extremely dedicated and loving. It saddens me that he is brought down to be a guy with mental illness. There is so much more to him than that."
I'm certain you had no ill intent, I just want to question the accidental implication of this statement (coming from a guy with several mental illnesses but also prioritizes dedication and love to family). That phrasing implies that being 'a guy with mental illness' is on a lower level of complexity than one without. I recognize the harm in reducing an entire person to only the diagnoses they're given; but as someone who had to fight really hard for proper diagnoses, care, and acceptance, it feels hurtful to assume that bringing attention to the mental illness takes away the authenticity and depth of one's values and compassion. Just because we identify symptoms of a disorder in Sunday, does not mean he is any less devoted, loving, and complex. If anything, it should make him more complex and add more understanding behind his experiences, actions, and thought patterns.
Mental illness is only a character-reducing thing if you go into it with that perspective. Mental illness does NOT negate empathy, contribution, dependability, or autonomy. His own misguidedness and his choices are JUST as valid the psychological experiences that CONTRIBUTED to those choices, and neither cancels the other out when it comes to looking at how it brought him to where he is. The inclusion of mental illness isn't a catch-all or a cop-out to explain a character; it is ones' perception and stereotype of mental disorders that close the doors to compassion or exploration of more 'deeper' aspects of a person.
However, if what you meant was something like this: "It saddens me that we focus on attributing Sunday's entire experience to pure psychiatric diagnoses, which we already know are extremely limiting labels irl (dang you, DSM-5 and naming/classification system!! You did your best, but you still need major improvements!)" and "There is so much nuance to Sunday's character beyond the speculated labels we run with, and unexplored nuance in the symptoms we draw parallels to"
...then, I sincerely apologize for being nitpicky and calling ya out like that 😅😅 I tend to be overly aware of these subconscious biases, harmful implications, and lack of awareness when making those generalizations (eg. "you're not fat, you're beautiful!" or "you're surprisingly good looking, for a trans person" and other concerning double-edged turns of phrase)
so yea please don't take anything I said personally, I meant it in more in the direction of a general commentary on social paradigms, and how it symbiotically feeds into our own blind spots in the things we say 🥲🙏
I really appreciate you bringing up your understanding of your mom (my condolences to that whole situation, by the way😓), the Sunday dispute, as well as Aventurine's morally grey positions, because it opens this connection towards what is essentially the core of Dialectic Behavioural Therapy. These coexisting opposing truths, and the fact that nothing is ever black or white.
The line between victim and perpetrator is blurry and oft-debated over because it is unnatural for these two aspects/perspectives to be separate.
Victim and perpetrator can coexist. Accountability/fault and sympathy/empathy can coexist. Good intentions and toxic actions can coexist.
Thanks for reading the ramble, sorry if I came off combative or offensive, have a great day :)
I don't think Sunday MADE Robin a singer either. She loved music and she loved being a singer, but what she wanted to do with that gift looked SO DIFFERENT than what Sunday wanted her to do. She wanted to be a "missionary" of sorts for the harmony, and we see her gravitate back to that role again and again, just singing for people in casual settings and bringing them joy. Sunday appears to be the one organizing all the giant public appearances though, and wanting her to be a big superstar.
Again, this video is nonobjective. I know I've gotten a handful of details wrong, but it was meant to express how I perceived things and how I experienced the story when I first played it. So if I've gotten things wrong, it's actually consistent to things I misunderstood on my first playthrough, just because of my own experiences, and it's really cool to see how other people understand the story from theirs :)
Thanks so much for your comment. You're awesome!
Thank you for sharing this i'm not good when to expressing words but this video resonated with me in such a way that it made me look back at myself. Sunday as a character is very polarizing and it has invoke many different things in people depending on how you view him and what you experienced.
One thing for sure we should always have the freedom to make the choices we deem right for ourselves even if it might put us in danger.
Part of living is accepting how absurd life is and rolling with it, to define ourselves and who we are is what makes us human even if it's imperfect. This was a very good video and it was really brave of you to even put this out, honestly you inspired me to do a lot of reflecting I wish nothing but the best for you and thank you for being YOU.
9:55 to clarify first: i do like sunday, his design, his redemption story but not gonna lie, when we met him in the quest the way he thinks icked me the most, it kinda activated my religous trauma (and the fact that he's also a priest didn't help much) because he reminded me so much of the church members and their morally high way of thinking.
OH YEAH his character design might be best in the game. He's lovely to look at. But yeah, that moral superiority just gets under my skin in a way not much else can.
Sunday is a very complex character that's neither fully evil nor fully good.
I think people tend to put characters they like in a better light, both intentionally and intentionally, than they really are which is why people who love Sunday tend to ignore his flaws.
But you can like a character for their complexity without trying to make them better in your head or trying to excuse their actions.
As much as we love to see fictional characters as fundamentally good or bad, some characters aren't as cut and dry.
At least that's my view.
Of course our personal life affect our views as our brains have trouble differentiating between a real or fictional character (this is why you can fall in love with a fictional character).
(Sorry if i didn't make sense, I'm writing this while sleep deprived)
This video was really beautiful and hard for me. I share your relationship with sunday, and honestly, the reason why I never enter sunday discutions online is because it hurts too much seing Ppl makes excuses for his behavior or even agreeing with his methods. It's not something I'm healed enough to deal with, and I noticed that immediately after doing the quest and seeing the online reaction. Sunday's abuse just hits too close to home for me to sympathize as much as I do understand his character. I also felt some time of way abt the eugenic ideals and ableism being so overlooked in the community. That really highlighted how ppl tend to view disability and it was hard to stomach.
As someone who has anxiety, I can relate with him (which is rare occasion) and one of the people who agree with him. Living is tiring for me and I already daydreaming a lot. So if someone gives me eternal dream, even without my consent, I won't be that mad. But I also understand the important of free will. I have need of control. I don't like someone ordering me (except for work) because I don't have control. I also understand living or interacting with people like me and Sunday is difficult and can be traumatic for some people. Even I don't like living with myself. It's nightmare!
If people don't like him, it's fine. We perceive things different. As long as they don't dislike him because of wrong information, like he actually wanted to be Aeon or other misinformation (misinformation rritates me so much), I'm good.
Thank you for bringing up this lesser talked about side of Sunday! I also think the negative effects of his actions are not talked about much, so this was enlightening for me to hear. Thank you for sharing your experience with his character!
Also please psychoanalyze me too! My favorites are Aventurine, Jiaoqiu and Dan Heng
Edit: I added Dan Heng… I love him too much
I cried. Thank you for this video. Best wishes for your long-term healing ❤
Again as someone said “ a path to a perfect paradise is paved with sacrifices and tears”.
Thank you for your willingness to be vulnerable with us. We see and appreciate you and your content 🩷
People that can explain topics like this are not common and I really enjoy this form of explanation so keep being yourself and spreading happiness to people like me.
fantastic video, this was clearly very personal for you and sunday has had a similar effect on some of my loved ones. always love your videos, hope you're having a great 2025!
I can imagine how hard it was to make this video, and im happy for the person behind the screen, who acomplished her goal of sharing something so personal with so many people.
I am glad that she sees this channel as a way of expressing herself, where she can shape a side of her however she wants.
I wish her good luck on the journey we call life, and i will gladly follow content with Ema Mae's signature.
this was an amazing video!! it really gave me a whole new perspective on sunday. you are so brave for sharing a bit of your story, and I wish you the best going forward!!
I am fairly new to HSR, and I don’t do this often, but I thought I’d share a bit of my thoughts, as sunday is one of my favorite characters:
sunday is complicated in the sense that he is both selfless and selfish.
he is selfless in that he just wants everyone to be happy, and is willing to sacrifice his own happiness for this very purpose, (from my understanding) but is selfish in how he doesn’t take other people’s criticisms of his philosophy and goals into consideration, so set on the idea he is doing this good, amazing thing, (this is most likely related to religious trauma, I’ve experienced something similar) blatantly ignoring the flaws with his thinking, building himself up to give him a sense of self-worth, probably because of the abuse and manipulation he has faced.
now, I’m not saying the fact that he was abused gives him an excuse for what he has done, but I think it is important to acknowledge that, on the surface, sunday has good intentions.
and that is what makes him such an interesting character to me! he believes he is doing good, and, if you look at it a certain way, he can be viewed as understandable, yet he is definitely aware of how much harm he is causing. he doesn’t stop and acknowledge it because he truly believes he is doing the right thing.
essentially, his selflessness is what makes him selfish.
with that being said, everyone is free to have their own personal opinion of him. your reluctance to like him is COMPLETELY valid. like I said, I’m fairly new to the game, so I may have missed some details that have caused me to interpret his story wrong, but I wanted to share because I thought this was a great video, and it made me reflect a lot on his character!
I don’t dislike him, but I’m just not able to really warm up to him. Watching this, I now understand why. Such a good analysis!
"i made a mask so i can better understand what was under it" Woah! never have i felt hit as hard. I have never been me, the people around be wanted me to be a mold to fit all of their feelings and their pain cause of their consequences. I always had to be the mediatior and break myself down until the concept of "Me" was not something i could give someone an answer to. Honestly thank you, this video has helped me understand what i have been trying to do and it does not feel as heavy anymore cause "i made a mask so i can better understand who I am under it". I dont know how to thank you for helping understand this void in my chest, but one thing we can do is not forget that the mask is who we want to be and i dont care if it's a mask or not if it makes me happy then who cares ❤
There's a saying "give a man a mask and he will become his true self" but I've found that only works if the mask itself doesn't come with expectations. I've been masking my whole life. People think the mask is my true self when they have no idea what's underneath. This space where I'm Ema is one of the few places that has no expectations attached to it. So it's both a mask and a removal of the mask. It's incredible.
I... have a lot of experience with manipulation. I was raised to be a sociopath, with the explicit purpose being a sort of "Wish Granter". Looking at Sunday was this, sort of reminder to who I used to be. More embarrassing to me if anything else. It's been a long time since I've been that person. Hell my profile name's a reference to Sherlock Holmes because his character arc in the original books resonated with me a lot. After I realized I didn't want to be... me. I ended up somewhere, where everyone wanted to be 'me', even the victims. It was like a purgatory made just for me. I ended up learning how much of a curse that famous spider-man quote could be because of that. Anyways, i've seen a lot. I've done a lot. And... when it comes to someone like Sunday. Someone like who I used to be, I think the best scene to highlight what he needs to do to change, is the scene where he's talking to Wonweek, and he's getting compared to Aventurine a bunch; where it's being pointed out that Sunday's being more risky and taking more bets. Sunday and Aven both manipulate people; but one drowns in his Nihilism and Paranoia, while the other believes in Hope. I took the long way around to learn that lesson myself, but I got there eventually. What I'm _hoping_ for in the story going forwards, is for Sunday to continue to change; for Aventurine to serve as both Rival and Rolemodel. And for them to have a rematch someday, where Sunday's growth can be properly put to the test.
how were you raised to be a sociopath.
@@bingusbongusthethirdEmotional Negligence and having very specific morals and beliefs reinforced through functionally artificial environments... basically.
@@bingusbongusthethirdSimilar story to what Ema described. Not exactly the same, but similar. Additionally, both my parents were grooming me into their image. They each actually had a specific image of me in their head, both of which were fundamentally not good ideals to put on a kid-- I became both of their ideals put together though, and, behold: Sociopath. Mom wanted me to be Paranoid and Vain, and Dad wanted me to be Angry and Proud. Basically, Fear, Anger, and a Lot of Narcissism. Suddenly very worried about what you're gonna do with this information, but I won't press it.
@@RudiMyDear that sucks. Sounds like they were prepping you for having a stroke in your later years.
I want Sunday and Aventurine to work together SO BADLY you have no idea. I'm gonna do a side-by-side comparison of the two of them at some point. I may dislike Sunday but I love the similarities between the two of them. (How would you feel if Sunday one day became a stoneheart?)
I do like Sunday for him being such a complex character for a gacha game and seeing how he comes and will move forward is something that Im looking forward too. Likewise, my three favorite characters are: Sampo, Sunday and Ruan Mei.
i mean, as a Sunday liker, even lover, I'd probably hate him irl. And I'm sure many other Sunday fans would as well. It's really just people's perception of the reality of fictional characters.
I'm just excited to see antagonists and find out how they became who they are. Because yes, meeting nice and sweet characters in game is nice but the excitement from meeting characters like Sunday is just bigger for me. That's all.
Anyways love a proper analysis. ♡
I like him a lot. I can relate with him which is rare occasion. That's why he is only good in fiction. I don't want to have spouse like him except for his face (he is so beautiful💜). I know living or interacting with people like me or him is difficult and can be traumatic for some people. I'm tired of myself too.
Oh this is such a good video thank you for it! Reasons why someone might not like Sunday or feel unease because of him - that's why I LOVE him as a character; the fact he hit so realistically for you only confirms how well written he is too. I guess I have a weak spot for fictional characters who feel trapped by their own mind/self imposed limited options/rigid morality; and it's the best in case where all they wanna do is good, but it only leads to terrible consequences. The thing that is truly reedeming about Sunday is that he admitted his wrongs, and truly seen effects of his doing, deeply feeling he does need to both change inwardly and outwardly. No more excuses & true humility.
[Although I haven’t watched the video at all since it’s currently 12am and i don’t wanna make noise, i’ve read the comments and guessed the contents (I watch it I swear), but i’m still making this comment cuz i wanna share me thoughst]
As someone who loves Sunday so much because of his backstory and arc, he had definitely messed up, BADLY. His writing is jsut amazing to me, even as someone who never had the same struggles. Because for all I love him, I won’t hesitate to admit that he had done many bad things and is incredibly toxic as a person. and it’s completely okay to dislike him for thst. His actions become incredibly selfish in execution, with him believing his plan to be the best, using his powers as a way to gain leverage over others, etc. completely ignoring how he’s affecting the others around him.
Still that isn’t to say he’s a cold blooded villain. He’s been shown to be he opposite, he’s incredibly selfless, willing to sacrifice himself if it means that people remain happy, doing anything so people can get their paradise even if it means he remains the lone one awake in the dream. He also definitely wasn’t raised in a healthy environment by any means, he says it himself that he was raised as a bird stuck in a cage.
Does it make his actions excusable? Not at all. If he truly wants to recover and heal, he still needs to take accountability for his actions.
Which…he does.
Which is actually smth I wanna talk abt: His redemption arc which I really like. Ofc he can’t fix everything. The hurt he’s done to other people can’t be fixed so easily, but he still does what he can. He tries to fix any damage his actions had caused within Peacony, and is well aware that his actions weren’t good. He tries to break the cycle of abuse of letting himself not become a victim (and in turn, not un turn make others victims of his actions) and learns he still has a long way to go.
He’s not evil, nor is he good. And it’s completely okay to dislike him for his actions, much like how it’s also okay to like him because of his story.
THANK YOU! Finally, I see someone with the same ick and feelings as me about Sunday. I couldn't really find anyone else online but his fans and this is really validating.
The scene with Aventurine was one of the most disturbing scenes I've ever seen! The Harmony markings on Aventurine scene? Nausea inducing. Like, people say he is a good villain and I agree! He's a greatly written character and works as an antagonist. But most people focused on his willingness to trap Penacony for everyone to be happy and that wasn't really my issue with him. At least not the only one. Yeah, that was bad but I hated how controlling and fake he seemed!
And people excuse his actions (you also say that you see he does the best he can and I agree to an extent) bc a lot of things he did made sense to HIM but that's the thing - if he didn't find himself so important (yeah yeah he was manipulated and raised like that I KNOW) he maybe would consider other people's opinions! That's what's so infuriating to me! He's self-absorbed and SELFISH.
I also, like you, don't want to sympathize with Sunday, bc he is just that unlikable. Now I've reflected on why I found him so unbearable (him basically being a priest, him taking away freedom from Aventurine and Sentencing him to Death basically (his penacony dream would erase it if Aventurine "behaved" I know I know), his relationship with Robin and also his overall personality). That's why I would have liked the most recent quest to be longer and I'm left dissatisfied after it. I felt it was a little shallow and barely scratched the surface of his personality but it did finally give me at least a little closure about his character.
I do think it's important to talk about the morality of characters as it reflects on our own opinions about the world.
Thanks for sharing your perspective especially since it was so personal. I do think you raise a very important question - about the people hurt by people who didn't intend to hurt them and where the blame and responsibility lies.
Except that he's not selfish. He's doing all of this for the good of the people around him and is willing to be the one who never has his own dreams come true if it means others can have their own dreams. And yet it isn't what the people he's "helping" want.
This is the difficulty of Sunday, I can see how he is selfish, and I can see how he is selfless. I can see his virtues and his flaws side by side.
But I don't care how much I understand him, what he's done is wrong. It don't care how much he can't help certain aspects of himself, the people he's hurt deserve better. He doesn't deserve punishment per se, but the fact that he doesn't understand his own actions doesn't make him harmless. If anything it makes him MORE dangerous.
How am I supposed to categorize this kind of person in my brain? I don't mean "good" or "evil." How am I supposed to approach them, interact with them? I have no idea.
(I'm not talking about Sunday)
@ Sorry for the long one again!
I send my comment and I just knew I phrased it wrong… Because YES! Yes he is so selfless! He loves his sister and he wants her happiness and he wants everyone on Penacony to be happy and he is ready to sacrifice himself for others. He is a willing sacrifice!! The definition of selflessness! AND (to me) he is so selfless that it- HE’s become selfish! A paradox! He is so stuck on this path of self righteousness, of being a sacrifice for the happiness of others, so convinced he is right - and I see that selfishness I hate. He is convinced it’s the “greater good” and I hate it.
He deceived Gopher, never intending to resurrect Order, he wanted everyone to just forever live in a sweet dream, bc for him it wasn’t a prison (the whole thing with that bird again damn it). He ignored the express crew’s opinions and he tried to show how he is the only right one (the damn 2 choices again damn it). And how he treats trailblazer like a child who he guides towards enlightenment and the only right answer - ugh.
“But I don’t care how much I understand him” entire paragraph- Yes, Yes, YES! SAME!
That’s why his actions shouldn’t be brushed off and I really, really want to see some further development.
People are complex, that’s why I’m so unnerved by Sunday I think, because he seems like such a real human it’s unnatural, but also he seems more human than strangers on the street because you don’t get this much insight into a real person.
And I look at all this and I’m like… this character hurts to look at, to think about.
Sometimes it doesn’t matter if we can sympathise / empathise with someone because often that doesn’t change anything at all. Your feelings matter and they stand next to your ability to understand people.
As for how to act and how to communicate and how to come to terms with it… I do not know.
@ Mhm. (I'm going to rant for a second, so please understand this is not directed at you AT ALL, I'm just pent-up, frustrated, and caffeinated atm and need a place to put this before my thoughts evaporate)
I love going back and forth with people in the comments here, and analyzing character beats, but the thing I can't communicate clearly in a way people understand is *I'm not analyzing a character*. He's selfish, he's selfless, he can't help what he did, he has a choice, he has good intentions, he hurt people, he's doing his best, he could've done better. THIS IS MY LIFE. THIS IS NOT A CHARACTER ANALYSIS. THESE ARE THE THOUGHTS I HAVE TO DIG THROUGH ON A DAILY BASIS. Every single effing day. The very things that make people praise him for being a complex character are the things that make living under him an unparalleled hell. That's the point of parts 1-3 of the video. It's not about Robin or Sunday or even Aventurine. This is my life.
Ok rant over. Again, totally not aimed at you, I just needed a place to put this where I knew it'd be seen. Might delete later, might screenshot it and put it in a community note. I have so much more to say about Sunday than I even put in the video. I love him, I hate him, I respect him, I'm afraid of him. They did so well with him and I don't even know where to start.
@@iamemamae I know, I know. You’re not analysing the character. and it’s… well I cannot imagine how that must feel. I’m seeing your situation only through the context of this fictional character after all.
What I’m trying to say is - I understand what you were/are saying. I just focused on the fictional aspect of it.
Me and a lot of other comments are focusing on the character. For you it’s a real life - a real man come alive in a video game.
It feels like torture, kind of, I presume. To have this going through your head.
I hope i don’t sound like an asshole when I say: I feel for you.
I obviously can’t know how you feel or know about your life above what you’ve said - but yeah that sounds like it sucks man.
Again i do not think there’s a clear answer here. The hurt happened and it is valid. Your feelings are valid. And your ability to empathise means emotional intelligence but also hurt in this case.
Maybe the answer lies in… being more selfish. (this sentence is not supposed to be humorous but i think it kinda turned out that way)
Take care of yourself and i truly wish you a peace of mind.
@@alexandraalie Not assholish at all, and you're right about being selfish. The thing that I've had to come to terms with is "it's not selfish to take for myself what already belongs to me." My future and my sense of self are mine BY RIGHT. They don't belong to anyone else, and it doesn't matter how much they guilt trip me or make me feel like I'm obligated to do what they want, I am my own person.
this was so beautiful and interesting to listen to. Your story deeply resonates with me and it opened my eyes. I had to replay several parts to write them down and to fully understand and hear every detail. Thank you for opening up and sharing your story with us!
Good luck on your self-discovery journey. May that journey lead you starward. Thank you for making this channel ✨
this makes sense to me. i’ve had childhood trauma from what was essentially a nonreligious cult, and i think sunday brings up a lot of those feelings for me. i also think the christian imagery puts me off because of being queer and in the bible belt. i personally haven’t gone through being told i can’t be queer because of religion, but i know so many people who have. many of my friends have. so that makes me squeamish. i also think that a huge part of my discomfort is how deeply i resonate with aventurine. i think he’s a fascinating character and there’s certain parts of him i like, but he isn’t someone who i can truly enjoy because of that deep discomfort i get, for the exact reasons you talked about. i only really seek to enjoy his character in ship dynamics that include “corrupting” him in some way, and breaking through his control. it almost feels healing for me. i also think there’s some stuff about my extensive medical trauma there, especially with like the fallen bird imagery, that makes me associate him with abusive doctors.
i have no issue with people liking him. i think the main thing that bothers me a bit is how people compare him to scara. i absolutely see the narrative parallels and appreciate them! however for me, in terms of their personalities and morals, they are completely different. scara wanted to free himself and rid himself of humanity due to trauma. he looked down on others simply because he sees them as a danger and abandonment waiting to happen. sunday wanted to control and protect others. he saw himself as a savior, and his goal was not to free himself of a cage built by humanity - but to build one himself for humanity. again, the narrative parallels are really cool, but the comparisons treating them as if they’re the same people with the same story and morals? i can’t stand that. i honestly think they’d hate each other if they met. this isn’t to say scara is perfect by any means! he’s flawed and his actions are often morally not okay and very messed up. this is about my personal connection to scara and how i feel others misread sunday and scara’s motives as the same, when they very much are not. i honestly think scara and furina, for example, would get along better, soley because of their similar experiences with isolation, despite having different motives
this is only my own personal thoughts/feelings and i intend no hate or insult to anyone.
Mhm. I didn't grow up in a cult, but it's shocking and sickening the more I learn about cults just how many control methods I can see having been used on me and my family in my childhood and young adult years. I also grew up-highly Christian, so Sunday...hits a lot of nerves. I also have the affinity for Aventurine. What unsettles me is how incredible similar Aventurine and Sunday are, on FAR more than a surface level, and yet I hate one and love the other with my entire heart. It's so odd. I'm still trying to figure it out.
@ yes exactly! i feel you!
A quote I quite like, not sure who said it but basically: "Everyone is entitled to the chance to better themselves and try to make their future better than their past, but nobody is entitled to be forgiven by those they wronged, that choice lies with the victim of their actions alone."
This being said, I dislike Sunday less than I did, but I still dislike him, he may yet find some form of redemption, but it'll have to be something miraculous to make me actually not basically hate him. The things he did to Robin, Aventurine, and many others are pretty bad, would be hard to offset that evil-already-done.
this was a fenomenal video, thank you for letting us know a bit about your experiences in life and how star rail helped you understand yourself as well, I also share that experience of relating to the portrayal of turning the fear of the unkwown into curiosity given by this game. It really shows the care the devs had on each aspect of the art and storu direction. love your theory vids as well :)
I personally can't stand Sunday. Not only because of what he did to Aventurine (even if he was protecting his home, as far as he knew, Aventurine was just some guy doing his job!), but because he thought himself as infallible.
He thought that his version of people and how the world should be was the best alternative to how it currently is, and I can never look past how, despite his good intentions, he caused a lot of despair to a lot of people. If it were up to me, I would have left him to rot in jail.
Just because someone is "just some guy doing his job" doesn't mean that guy isn't planning on doing something that could irrevocably cause harm to everything you care about. Penacony used to be a literal prison belonging to the IPC and Aventurine was there to snatch Penacony back _for_ the IPC. Would they have became a prison again? Probably not as such since Penacony has since made itself into an extremely profitable enterprise the IPC would want to exploit. But...that's just it. "Exploit". Aventurine doesn't get a pass for just doing his job when his job involves intentionally taking advantage of people. And I say that as somebody who actually really likes Aventurine as a character.
Yeah sure let the IPC that terrorizes people and invade planets not rot in jail
@@anaplaysstuff Here's the thing about Aventurine - we can assume things about what he's done, but Hoyo has actually given us NO INFORMATION about harm he's actually caused. Aventurine has actually caused NO HARM that we know of. He has hurt no one except himself and there's evidence he's even working against the IPC from the inside, or at the very least aiding them against his will because he quite literally belongs to them. Aventurine is not "doing his job," he's a slave to the IPC. This is pretty explicit. He has no choice. He is the ONE CASE where I call him a victim and refuse to take criticism on that point.
Interesting analysis. I was ready to believe that Sunday can change for the better, but hearing someone who can relate to Robin's situation talk about it does make me think a little. The most valuable story tidbit we can glean is probably from Wonweek, the fraction of Sunday's personality that contained the things he was repressing, like a sense of humor, and the knowledge that he was being a control freak who deserves brutal honesty more than sympathy.
I don't think he is beyond redemption, but after watching this, the road just got a bit longer.
I don't like him because he's Temu Dr. Maruki from Persona 5 Royal. I've already seen this character done waaaaay better in one of my all time favorite games.
Spoilers for a better rpg: Dr. Maruki suffers a traumatic experience in which a loved one is seriously injured. The incident forces a wedge between the two and he blames himself for not being able to protect her. This sends him down a path in which he seeks a supernatural power with the ability to warp reality in order to craft a reality in which there is no suffering. A beautiful dream. This comes at the expense of all other people's freedom and ability to choose their own path. The protagonist sets out to shatter the dream after he ends up trapped in a "perfect" reality where everyone who died is suddenly alive and all of the strife his friends previously faced has been wiped away. There's a large focus on the theme of freedom along side suffering vs a beautiful cage with no strife, but it's not hamfisted through the repetitive image of a dove. The protagonist eventually wins out and Dr. Maruki sees things from the protagonist's point of view, choosing to instead move on from the past and create a new life for himself. He even helps the protagonist escape to a train station at the end of the game so he can return home.
This is also why I hate Adventurine. He gave off bootleg Akechi vibes from the start and basically follows his arc up until the end. The difference being, Akechi actually sacrifices himself to help shatter the dream where as Adventurine gets to live because they need you to spend money pulling him in the gacha.
I have a question if you dont mind 8:04 Well, it's stated that he and robin rarely saw eachother so Sunday may still think he knows robin and I dont think hes her manager considering he's head of the oak family and never left peanacony
This is a good point. But he still is the person who has known her longest, so I'd still say it counts :)
@iamemamae yeah true lol and also I just looked at his character story one where you unlock it after leveling the character and yeah he wasn't her manager
@ That was the word I chose but if you notice I said "more or less her manager" - it's not his official position, but it's implied he had a fair amount of control over certain aspects of her career. That was all I meant by it.
6:00 Ooo ooo do me! My top 3 are probably (in this order) Dan Heng, Firefly, and Welt
Also great video! This is sort of how I feel about Sunday. I like Sunday but also confused about some of his decisions. But his worldview and his thought process really intrigues me at the same time
Thanks for the video as always Ema. You're my favorite HSR lore analyst/theorist and I'm so glad your channel is growing! Good job, you deserve it. And I really mean it, especially after learning what all this work represents to you.
About Sunday, my sentiments towards him are just as you described in the intro of this video. I don't hate him, but I can't bring myself to like him as much as the rest of the community does. However it's funny to see that my reasons for feeling this way are quite different from yours, because we didn't experience the same things in life. I believe this is also why I love Robin while you're pretty neutral about her. I'd love to develop further but that would be another 20 mins video xD
In the end, it's really subjective and depends on each person's experience, point of view and opinions. Thanks for sharing yours.
Thank you for this video. In addition to the new topics you've brought forth, you've made me realize I overlooked a part of Sunday's character that I didn't even know existed. As someone who is neither fan, nor hater (though I have him because his kit is good for the upcoming expac that releases next week), I did feel that something felt off. Not only did I not realize it felt off, I had no clue where to even look. It also shows how much detail the writers put into the character and amazes me at just how well written Sunday is.
Honestly I think you’ve come the closest in any discussion or analysis of Sunday’s character to articulating the way I feel about him, so… thank you I suppose. Genuinely. Being able to finally click my frustratingly complicated emotions is weirdly healing. Sunday’s character is a tough one for me to discuss because, kind of like you described, despite everything story wise, I just couldn’t shake this feeling of discomfort and familiarity with him, and just could never like him as everyone else seemingly could. I won’t ramble so I’ll just say this, from what it’s worth from some random stranger on the internet, thank you for sharing your experience, and I’m so happy that you are embracing the power of choice :D
Deeply vulnerable and beautiful video. Thank you for sharing your story and explaining the character of Sunday on a deeper level than I realized existed!
Literally teared up towards the end. Thanks for your insights EmaMae! Stay strong
in the 10 months I've seen your content, from your "why firefly is one of the most important characters in penacony" video, to this most recent one, I am so glad that I found your channel, and I love the way you present your theories and you're one of my go to channels in the HSR community :D
Also, it must have taken an incredible amount of strength to reanalyse Sunday's character and relate it back to your personal life and I'm so happy that you trust us enough to share such an experience.
P.S: my favourite star rail characters are boothill, aventurine, and Jing Yuan
This is interesting because I entirely agree with you but it makes me like him as a character precisely because of these complexities and darknesses he has. And the effects he has had. There are many good characters out there who are villains. And he is a great villain! I think he is well written.
I love this character but not because I aspire to be him, but because of how honestly he’s written. To me, many fantastic stories out there would not be good stories without villains. And the fact that he leaves a bad aftertaste or that he is so readily applicable to the audience’s lives is actually a “pro” for me.
And him joining the express doesn’t necessarily mean he will suddenly be viewed as a “good” person and forget all that has happened. I trust the writers here (rare) and I have faith he will remain just as complex, even in his “redemption” arc. He’s only truly said he will find “another way” to achieve his goals. I’m willing to accept this or him slowly changing to better himself. I don’t think the writers here ever seemed to condone his behavior.
And if this isn’t the case in the future, you’ll find me complaining about the sudden drop in quality of the writing.
Coming back to this video again because wow is it good. You have very quickly become one of my favorite HSR lore creators, if not just the one I turn to period. You always explain everything so well and give it all just the right dramatic flair that the videos are so rewatchable!
And even with all that you still took a moment to be open and vulnerable on the internet, which is terrifying for me to even try to imagine. So…well I don’t really know but I have sympathy for you. Thanks for being a cool internet person :)
Also, if you have the time/see this, I would say my three favorite characters are: Stelle, Rappa, and, HI3rd Herrscher of Truth Bronya.
Diatribe on choice below, but I just wanted to emphasize that you are a wonderful content creator, and I always love your theories and videos because they’re all so grounded, focusing on the interpersonal aspect rather than “predictions” and “reality shattering plot twists”. It’s just really nice to see character driven theories if that makes any sense lol.
I really had to think hard and consider, who are the characters I loved and used and decided to play with, even when everyone else was saying no, and it was those three. Now, uh, EmmaMae (god that seems so formal), I think you mentioned somewhere else that you were getting into HI3rd, but Bronya at the end of part one’s story is somewhere between Silverwolf and HSR Bronya.
sunday to me is... the way I think but also a thing I don't want to end up being
it was hard for me to understand why and your video have cleared my mind a little since I can relate with the father experience
it's something I started fighting back once I became a teen (you know... those "rebel years") I still feel chained to something that doesn't let me feel free like that harmony spell even if he is no longer in my life
Wauw this was so open
I haven’t fully watched the video yet but I just want to say I’m SO glad someone shares the same opinion as me. With how praised he is in the fandom, I felt like an outsider being the only one who didn’t enjoy his character that much. Not because he wasn’t complex, rather I didn’t like his actions. I’m interested to hear your thoughts as well because I feel no one ever talks about this.
I'll wait to see what you have to say after finishing the video. It's a lot.
@ This was a really pleasant video to watch. Not with the topics, but how you made balance between the character, their actions, their justifications, and yourself. I always love when people are vulnerable enough to share themselves through a character, and your connection between Sunday and Robin, with your own past, was interesting. I’m sorry for your experience though. What I especially loved was your touch on when we draw the line for past trauma excusing future actions. A lot of people use Sunday’s backstory as justification for what he has done when regardless it has caused unnecessary harm for others. Nowadays people often forget that tragic backstories aren’t always an excuse for what characters have done, rather an explanation as to why they do it or feel that way. Very strongly do I feel is the same for Sunday. Great video seriously!
This video left me a lot of things to think about.
Thank you for making it.
I'm very glad. I wish you all the best.
I feel similarly about Sunday. I understand that his actions came from good intentions. I accept that he is working to become a better person. But I cannot forgive him.
Psychoanalysis based on our 3 favorite characters? Mine are Pela, Huohuo, and Qingque. And you are right that it’s because I see myself in them. I’m capable, but lack ambition, I periodically will hyperfixate on things, my childhood involved chronic peer rejection, and I am like a completely different person when I’m at work.
Sunday and aventurine are both chars i adore because i saw alot of things of them in me and everything you said is indeed still valid, but i think it wad also kinda the point. If he were to idk just threathen to unleash a stellaron alot of players wouldbt have felt that his whole punishment motif was needed. People forgive worse for characters. But instead they made him actually have very fucked up things that then make you go "this guy is scary". The whole scene of him arguing wws typical manipulation. Giving you only two options was the point cuz then they wereactively making you feel limited, but also go "he has a point..." Exactly how he wants it. He wants you to find a better solution but he actively makes sure it stays within his limited ideas. this is how he gives that cult leader feel and also what makes his journey so interesting, to the point that i take him as partially inspiration of how i could maybe cope with my guilt too
Lastly as ive been watching u for a while, im happy to hear you are usibg this all to find yourself and that its helping, im glad to hear that. Wish you a great day as always
on your question of when victim becomes abuser there isnt a line people can be both,in my opinion what matters is reconsing understanding and overcoming your trauma as hard as it is of course not everyone deserves forgiveness or should expect it but i would be content knowing even if im not forgiven or cant forgive those but as longs as those mistakes mean no one else will feal the pain i inflicted or felt then that is enough the difference between remediation and becoming worse is change it cant and wont fix your mistakes nothing can but it will stop you from making them again
Wow, this video was so personal and beautiful, thank you for sharing.
I do wish you the best, and to say that I hope you feel like you can forever embody the Will of the Trailblaze within yourself forever more. Because, even if it feels like someone is just tugging us along in life, I wish to still feel like we do what we want, because we want it. Our lives are our own and should not be dictated by others.
On another note, while Sunday is leaving Penacony with his sins still buried into those he scarred, do remember he at least made it so some of those will not continue to harm others. Obviously no character is perfect, but at least he recognizes his faults and is trying. He could possibly just be running away, but at least he did not leave without at least resolving some of his faults before he did so.
haha love the "i'll tell u stuff about urself based on what characters u like", would love to see u work ur magic! if we are talkin only star rail, i would say my faves are kafka, sampo and aventurine
Brilliant video. Thank your excellent explanations and then going beyond by sharing your personal truths, when you could have perfectly not. Your experience and perspective are a layer that, I feel, is important to remember among all the complexity that is Sunday.
The "fawn" emotion response. I thought it was a new emotion I can learn about. Turns out it's not and it is actually very, very relatable to me. So many times in my life I have been scared, but I couldn't stop smiling. I hate it
The reason the whole Penacony and Sunday story feels so eerie for me, might be because of how religious it feels in a way. I haven't had the best experience with that and often I push away any family members that are religious because I feel in danger. Even if that specific person has never done anything to me.
Also, where can I get the opportunity to be analysed based on my fav characters? That sounds very, very cool and I'd like to look more into it
XD Just put your favorite characters here and I'll see what comes to mind :)
Thank you for another amazing video Ema, and thank you for sharing such sensitive and personal things. I'm so sorry that you experienced such things. I hope you're in a better place now. Be happy and healthy 💖
Also, didn't expect to see Cinema Therapy in one of your videos. As a fan of Cinema Therapy, I'm happy that you included a clip from their video ❤️
Cinema therapy has been such a huge part of my healing journey. I love Jono and Alan so much.
My Favs are Sunday, Yanqing, March. Analyze me and don't hold back! 😆 I also like Jiaoqiu, Jingliu, Kafka, Yunli, and Acheron..
Also great video. I'm glad you had the confidence to make it. Hoping the best for you this year.
I am not Ema Mae, but is it alright if I give it a try? This is my first time so please don't take my interpretations to heart, haha.
- maybe you feel weak or helpless in some aspects of your life (be it past trauma, social life, etc.) so you try to make up for it by appearing cool, strong, or competent? That's not to say you're not a strong or competent person, of course! I just meant it like, maybe that's how you compensate.
- you admire/appreciate hard work & true effort, maybe even more so when it comes from someone young, bright, and earnest
- you have a playful/dramatic side, but when shit gets real you sort of close off and become extremely serious or nihilistic
- when you know you're in the wrong, you feel guilty but are afraid of taking accountability which causes you to detach yourself from the situation/others' emotions in order to alleviate guilt (? idk just a guess)
- Maybe you have a thing for found family, and you take on the role of an advisor or protector in said dynamics
- it's a reach here but maybe there's something in your past that you couldn't face/process, so you just repress it and force yourself to forget it until you're numb inside enough to keep moving on in life
if you're comfortable, I'd like to know what has resonated with you, what I've missed, and what I've gotten egregiously wrong lol :)
@@thou_narsty_gremlin Dang you got it mostly right.
You love deeply and are passionate about what you care about, to a point where you sometimes feel intimidated by your own emotions and distance yourself from them.
Not watched the video yet, just read the title but, I honestly think it is so refreshing to have characters like this that aren't just definitively positively in the "good guy" camp, which consist of 99% of the playable roster in Hoyo games lol
While I love sunday, he is one of my faves, i get not everyone will love sunday, and I’m okay with that coz what he’s done could mean differently based on people experiences, some people hate the mind control stuff etc, for me it’s just another anime/fantasy skill, but he tried to change, while i get it might seems annoying seeing the community so welcoming, i think its good to keep the community positive, even if i hate certain characters, i never said it on internet and keep it to myself coz, that character might have different meaning for others. My fellow sunday fans even sad to know a lot hate him, that’s why some seems annoying supporting sunday. While I dont care much coz these just entertainment and i have real life and everyone have their own likes and dislikes. For me he is more like maruki in persona 5R, not a bad guy and dream of better world but the way he push his ideal world to everyone is wrong..
Maybe because it's fiction and I accept no all justice will be delivered in the world (irl or fiction), plus many criminals like Stellaron Hunters still walk free, his escaping prison does not bother me that much. For accountability and atonement, I don't think stay in prison will change anything. Many of his victims don't know they're victim of his crime. Only IPC, The Family, us....those who fought him. For each person, atonement will be different. For The Family, it's prison. For IPC, Jade freed him. For Nameless, they accept him even though still wary of him. I think he is ready to take accountability later. He said he doesn't know the price for his freedom and he is ready to pay for it. But now he wanted to understand other point of view so he can be better.
what a plot twist Ema's father is Sunday
People think sunday is actually a good person??? Well he wants to be but hes not very good at it
In a way im intimately familiar with
SLDJALKJFLA yEA 😅 Good intentions does not always equate to good actions.
ye it took me a while to understand that being obedient, law-abiding, and morally/behaviourally rigid doesn't equate to being a good person.
Welp, but at least...he's trying...(ish)...he'll get there someday, hopefully?? He just needs a heavy dose of acceptance, self-awareness, and cognitive behavioral therapy
I think a lot of people like him cause he's a handsome sad boy (and I won't lie, he's #1 when it comes to character DESIGN in my book), but he's done so much wrong. I need to see a lot more good progress before completely letting my guard down with him.
@iamemamae well liking him and thinking he is a good person are totally different things
Aditionally just personally I havent viewed media from an immersive POV in a long time. He is a fictional character so there is no reason to have my guard up. Maybe ill end up liking or disliking a character but mostly I just try to understand the meaning of it rather than feel it as a reality.
The immersive POV is fun though, I wish I could still access it
I am sorry for what you went through, but i feel like your analysis of sunday is a bit different than what hsr wanted to protray. Sunday, has suffered. Being orphaned, having nothing and no one to rely on but his sister. And when gopher wood took him in, showed him an actual life, showed him the order, that it can "help" people, just like it helped sunday and robin, he wanted to follow it. To build an eternal dream, one where a bird can be free, but only in the confines of its cage. Sunday did what he did because he wanted the weak and suffering to have a paradise, one where they wouldnr struggle to survive, one where his sister wouldnt be in danger. But in the end, he realised that, relying in the powers of an aeon to build a paradise, an eternal dream, stripping people of their free will so they wouldnt hurt others, is wrong. He himself, said "I was once 'Bronze melodia', listening to the pleas of thoes who were suffering. Knowing, there were no gods who would save people unconditionally. To change anything, you can only rely on yourself. I will overcome the thorns, I have hears the call. There is always a paradise to be built. Even if, I may melt and fall before reaching it. 'Behold that Vow, like the sun in the sky. One which is not tainted by violence or swayed by argument.' ". He wishes to make amends with the wrong hes done, make a paradise for thoes, but one where a bird doesnt need to be caged in order to suvive. Even if, making this paradise will lead to his downfall.
"I am sorry for what you went through, but i feel like your analysis of sunday is a bit different than what hsr wanted to protray."
I'm very aware. Which is why I put at the beginning of the video the disclaimer that this is meant to be an analysis of my nonobjective experience, not necessarily be fully accurate to the intended message of the character.
@iamemamae I respect that, your analysis of his character was really an interesting take to see and a fun perspective, but I just personally feel like he's overhated. But, it's your opinion, and more power to you.
@ Thank you. And thank you for taking the time to watch it and write your thoughts out as well :)
Thank you for making this video. For me Sunday is my mom. I pretty much had the same reaction with Sunday until i understood what he represented. i sometimes really hate how it feels like everyone is in love with him bc it shows how DV can be brush over by everyone else bc some person look pretty, have money and/or a lot power. I still pulled for him bc he is on the express for the moment and do hope that hoyo expand Sunday story bc idk why but 2.7( whatever the latest patch # is) felt kinda flat. not sure why. maybe it bc my feelings lol
Thank you for this video. You've made me realize why I had intense mixed feelings of Sunday as well, and practically hated him with every fiber of my being for a while, but I still pulled for him.
After that scene with Aventurine is when he actually made me feel sick. And judging by Aventurine's voice line of Sunday, he hated him for that, too.
"Taking a shortcut or two isn't a big deal, but blatantly dipping hands into someone else's pockets - that lacks finesse."
He's clearly disturbed by that as well if that is his quote for him.
However, Sunday was written as an antagonist. His character, being this complex, was very intriguing to me. His flaws were things that I have always feared I'd have, so I am very interested to see where they go with this character now that he's aboard and if he'd be able to overcome these flaws and redeem himself in some way and truly realize his mistakes. I won't and haven't forgiven him, as Aventurine is quite literally my favorite character.
Keep your friends close, but your enemies closer is literally how it felt when I pulled this guy.
Regardless, I applaud them for writing such a good character.
Damn. You ever just watch a video from a creator you haven’t watched in a minute, and then it just gets so deep and personal you start crying? Like man, I didn’t even know all those different types of danger responses but I have experienced all of them before especially fight and fawn. Thank you for making this video
This is going to be a great video
The video was great and it really helped me to put into words why I also don't vibe with sunday
Thank you for making this video. This is how I’ve found out about the fawn response. I’m not sure how I would have otherwise.
I'm glad it was helpful :)
I must say i love the video, I love it's content. But aside from that my respect for you in addressing topic so close to yourself, has risen 10 fold. Keep on making content that you can be proud of and I'll stay here enjoying it!
I'm not sure if I should say this but I understand I understand what it's like be reminded of people you know in fiction and it just awakens emotions
Is it bc of Monday 😭
Ok that made me laugh
That was a really good video good job and keep being you who ever that is
I also have "Sunday" in my life for years. I fought but it hurt me more in the end. I stopped resisting. I started to allow that person to take control. I lost my sense of survival and can no longer feel pain. I guess I'm walking the path of nihility now haha. but thanks to that, I felt indifferent towards Sunday. maybe a little annoyed because after learning about dreamflux reef and hearing about his sister's cause, he's still being the same dumb chicken wing boy. I hope he gets a good redemption arc in amphoreus, or just a character development if it's too much
It may not be my place, but don't stop fighting. Even if it's in quiet little ways that only you know about. There are so many comments here from people who have experienced the same thing and are now working towards being able to live their own lives or already there. You're not alone, and you don't have to resign yourself to it. I wish you all the best.
I want to infodump my understanding of sunday but it involves using terms I coined myself so it might sound a bit wierd
You can if you want - you might have to explain, but I wouldn't mind reading it.
My favorite characters are Bronya, Serval, and Sushang.
I'm really glad you approached this topic with such tact and depth. I've always been neck deep in the Sunday hater camp and it is very enlightening to see a very in-depth dive into the discussion as opposed to the relatively brief and polarized views that the majority of the community seems to have. My reasons for disliking Sunday are very easily summed up by a quote that I saw on another video on Jinx from Arcane: Trauma is an explanation, not an excuse. Sunday's crimes are deep. I was not aware of his actions towards his sister and did not pay much attention to his interaction with Aventurine, but they do not help his case.
His upbringing is probably the most sympathetic thing for him, which had flown under my radar. He doesn't have true parental figures, only the family that is more or less using him and his sister for political gains, which is probably the root source of his disconnection from others and extreme bond with Robin. He's been taught from a young age to see only the value in interacting with other people and to see the worst in others which probably also adds to his idea that things should fit into specific and strict categories and should be orderly and sorted the way he sees fit, like a wrestle for any amount of order and control that he can wrestle. As you said, OCD for things to be the 'correct' way, especially for Robin, who he's felt he's needed to protect and nurture. He's likely gotten extremely accustomed to this feeling and has engrained it into his psyche that he is meant to be such for others as well.
This is also the crux of my problem with him. When I see Sunday, I see the image of an abusive boyfriend. He means well and has noble intentions, but he never truly sees and listens to those he is close to, yet is very eager to sweep others' protests and beings beneath his own idea of things: He has a deep seated belief that he knows better and he is the only one who can truly protect those he cares for and it's deeply poisoning. I think T.B. Skyen's assessment of Viego is fitting, "Viego is a military parade in Beijing... He is monster, but he is a monster that loves you." He is a consuming black hole, but one with a kind-hearted face and warm embrace. It is extremely tempting to jump into his maw and forget everything else, something that I've grown extremely disheartened over as I've seen many of his fans, including people I know, say things like "YES SATAN TAKE ME AWAY."
I think his redemption arc was the final nail in the coffin though. Understanding your failings and wanting to repent is one thing, but escaping almost all accountability ruins it. It seems like he was just able to sweep all his misdoings under the rug and join the good guys and go around the galaxy spreading philanthropy for free. From my perspective, he seems to still believe that he knows best and while he understood he made a mistake, he still doesn't fully understand why what he did is wrong (like the feeling when your friend suddenly blows up because you did something to anger them unintentionally and you apologize but have no idea what you actually did wrong). It comes across like he is insanely arrogant, even if it is truly that he can't understand, which infuriates me because it seems like he's had no real development and as a person and has been forgiven for galactic terrorism. The biblical imagery painting him as HSR Jesus/God really hasn't helped with that.
Sorry this turned into a bit of rant, I do have a deep bias against him. I'm really glad you made a video that approaches the issue so deeply and thoughtfully, I feel like it opens up a very good forum for a discussion I've felt has been stalled and very much right vs left. I've had a lot of these thoughts swirling in my head for the longest time and I'm glad I can finally dump them where they might actually spark some discussion.
I kinda disagree with you , the story arch does show that the rest of the astral family is weary of him , they are keeping Thier guard at least until they reach amphorius.
Second of all , I believe Sunday was so against choice, because every time he offered a choice / offered help , it usually ended it in
1- death
2- injury
3- someone close getting hurt
So he pretty much said "fine then I'll do it myself" and decided to pull and infinite tsukiyomi. And you could see why someone could do something like that.
He also flat out admits he did something wrong and that many people won't accept him EVEN IF he tried to redeem himself in penacony so the next thing is to go to amphorius (also is it just me who thinks that if he died in amphorius that would tie up his character arc beautifully ?) he is one of the few HSR characters who are "morally gray" so to speak , and that just shows how well written he is.
@@justadude189 I think you missed the point. I dislike him because he HAS that idea that taking away people's choices is a good thing (he is perpetuating the cycle of lording over other people instead of rising above his traumas and growing as a person). It's understandable that he would make those choices but I can not condone that he has done them, especially after we spent so long during the quest trying to stop him and he just repeatedly waxes poetic about his grand purpose (anyone up for another charmony dove copypasta?)
To address the other part, I think he's just taken the easy way out. I think the astral express taking him under his wing is reasonable, but if he were really trying to repent he would not run away from Penacony. Atonement comes from doing right by those you wronged, not running away from them. You must take their hate and rebuild what you destroyed. You have to look at the people you've wronged in the face and take all the hatred and bile they will spew at you. I think that his "they're never going to forgive me anyway so I'll just leave" rationale instead comes across as extremely inadequate and misses the point altogether. He's essentially saying "I don't care what other people think, I will repent in my own way." I will not argue that he is a well written character, but he is not morally gray. His actions are clearly shown as wrong and his repentance being the center of his character makes this very clear cut.
I think death is too good for him. If they have to shove him in our faces for Amphorius I hope he really does take a long and arduous path to redemption and eventually comes back to rebuild what he's broken and tries to repair his relationship with Robin.
@@rayzen9600 " I dislike him because he HAS that idea that taking away people's choices is a good thing (he is perpetuating the cycle of lording over other people instead of rising above his traumas and growing as a person)."
yeah , that's the point , you are a supposed to hate him, that's what 2.0-2.3 were building up to ....
"To address the other part, I think he's just taken the easy way out. I think the astral express taking him under his wing is reasonable, but if he were really trying to repent he would not run away from Penacony."
and to address your own pervious point about Sunday being like an abessive boyfriend , this is pretty much him going on a journey to find out what he didn't understand , he's pretty much saying "alright I know I fucked up , But I don't know where , So first I figure out where the f##k I went wrong and then I'll come back", even Robin herself said that sunday needs to take a break and find where he messed up before he comes back to Penacony , and amphoreus specifically being a world who very likely was originally ruled by the Order , could show sunday "hey this is what happens you have your way"
"Atonement comes from doing right by those you wronged, not running away from them. You must take their hate and rebuild what you destroyed. You have to look at the people you've wronged in the face and take all the hatred and bile they will spew at you. I think that his "they're never going to forgive me anyway so I'll just leave" rationale instead comes across as extremely inadequate and misses the point altogether."
I am sorry I phrased my statement in that way , what I meant that lets say for example he did stay , realistically , he'd get locked up in whatever dream like equivalent to the shackling prison on the loufou , what then ? what changed ? that's just another layer and so on we continue the cycle as well.
"I think death is too good for him. If they have to shove him in our faces for Amphorius I hope he really does take a long and arduous path to redemption and eventually comes back to rebuild what he's broken and tries to repair his relationship with Robin." that would be cool , but I do kinda feel that robins line about "meeting again up in the clouds" is a pretty heavy death flag already.
@@justadude189 Don't forget that he also said to us he doesn't know the price for his freedom and if Jade asked him to pay, he is ready. I think this is him trying to take accountability. Like you said, staying in the prison when your sister risked so much to get you free won't change anything. Better try to understand what you did wrong and then pay when it's time for that.
you're both dancing around the point that he essentially wanted to turn everyone in Penacony into Chadwick, a blob of Memoria. A fate worse than death. I suggest you read Scott Base's After Life, as it presents a very realistic idea of what that dream would be like.
Say you have a criminal who has killed three people. Do you want him wandering the streets? Do you think if he says he's sorry enough and enough of his friends and family vouch for him that he should be allowed the freedom to run off and kill again if he really wants to? Do you think anything he can do will bring those 3 people back and repair the families he's destroyed?
I will not argue that his imprisonment does not change anything nor benefit anyone involved but that is the entire point of being detained; You've proven you can not be trusted to have the freedoms everyone else has, so you will not receive those rights. You don't get your happy ending. You don't get to gallivant around the cosmos giving lip service and essentially feeding your own ego to say you've atoned when you have not served any of your sentence. He fully understood the ramifications of his actions and still committed them. People will say a murderer deserves to rot in prison. People say serial killers should die. Just because Sunday didn't succeed he gets to wander around with our protagonists for free after attempting something several magnitudes of severity worse? He's literally just walking around with a dozen people saying "I'll keep an eye on him."
It also doesn't really matter whether or not the judicial system in Penacony is fair or not either. In this isolated case pretty much any punishment they give him is fair given his conspiracy, and further I believe it would make for far more better writing. What has more impact to you? Sunday being allowed to become a martyr or Robin having to visit a shell of a man in prison for the rest of their lives?
I'm glad you agree with the fact that he is not a good person in the first patches. He is showing development but that is far too little and far too late, trying to fill ground zero with a shovel. Allowing Sunday to just have a good ending by probably dying and saving the express and a planet is really bad messaging. Changing mindsets and two patches or so of trials before biting the bullet and earning absolution. Blade has been hunting Dan Heng for years because he saved his life imperfectly.
I have not been in the situation where you feel that someone very important is being very controlling over an extended period of time. Maybe that's why I realize there's something off about Sunday but never instinctively felt worried for Robin. If she acts like she's fine then she's fine, and even if she's not what can we do about it while she's keeping up the act?
And THAT is the real difficult part about the fawn response. No-one sees that you're afraid. I don't actually think Robin is scared of her brother, though. That's why I chose to focus more on Aventurine for that section. As controlling as Sunday can be, Robin isn't actually in any legitimate danger from him and knows how to deal with him to get him to stop if it came down to it. As siblings, they are equals and see each other as such. It's different in a parent/child dynamic though.
Just wanted to say i really enjoy and look forward to your content!