Tony Cecchine's American Catch Wrestling: Standing Double Wrist Lock (Kimura)
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It's amazing how this VHS video filmed in 1990s is still not only rele in 2020s, but it's actually much more advanced than most shoulder lock instructionals you find only today.
Love how annoyed he is about Kimura
Tony Cecchine's Catch wrestling VHS instructionals from 1990s really changed my perspective on wrestling. Awesome stuff.
Tony's locks are very technical. Brutal.
Manliest person in the world, you sir are a legend, no sarcasm.
People who say it doesn't work have never seen Sakuraba do it to the Gracies.
He broke Renzo's arm with it lol which calls back to Masahiko Kimura breaking Helio Gracie's arm with the same thing years prior
@@kickinwinghotboi883 he didn’t do it this way. He actually practiced against resistance and didn’t even follow the hold this way
@@jorndoff2002 He still used a variation of this technique, yes? So, technically, what I said holds true. Would you agree? **holds microphone towards your face**
@J O Well this is a demonstration stupid.
@@kickinwinghotboi883the difference between a Kimmura and a double wrist lock is that. The Kimmura gives you a chance to tap. The double wrist lock does not.
Im a pretty fresh purple belt, but the double wrist lock has been my fav move since day one. This video was extremely helpful and full of small intricate details. Great instruction.
Tony: You know how you know it works?
Training Buddy: ARGH!
Tony: See that? That's how.
he is one if the best ligitimate teacher of catch wresteling
Again, this is a timing move. It's true you aren't likely to grab at the arm of a big dude and just twist it if he's not compliant. But it's also true that a smaller guy can absolutely get this on a big brute if he sets it up and transitions into it quickly. Getting that initial grab and wrist position is crucial; after that, body positioning negates an opponent's strength, puts him off balance, and sets up the finish. Which as you note is incredibly powerful because of the leverage created.
Hello, Are you still teaching? Thanks!
This video is nice and simple to understand, and I applaud the length that you went to demonstrate how it's not supposed to be executed and how it should, also because I've been trying to understand how the Kimura (Double Wrist Lock) is so painful.
A girl I was talking to in early 2000s got me this DVD. Totally forgot about it.
My girlfriends stepdad had the set of DVDs. Good stuff!
Y’all were Just talking ah
@jasonballenger2505 Yes, never actually met in person. I went from forum to phone, and we planned to meet, but it never happened.
finally a combative keylock shown.i hate that all bjj teachers say paint the floor etc if u miss the sholder tapbjust break the wrist great vid i use this move all the time.combat systema
Great detail on taking the underside. Thank you.
thanks for sharing Tony Cecchine's American Catch Wrestling
The forearm is so much stronger than a fleshy bicep. I think BJJ sees the double wrist lock, Kimura, as more of a submission that puts stress on the shoulder. It's not wrong, it's just different. The original, catch as catch can version is meant to break bones! I wish we did catch wrestling in Britain more. Billy Robinson taught this to the Japanese and many American wrestlers, yet it's so obscure over here.
Check out the catch wrestling playlist on @EnglishMartialArts.
@cecchinecatch I should add that if you are prepared and practiced at grabbing for the wrist this way, you'll find this available to you in a number of situations. Essentially, the guy's hand is in the typical finish position for a straight punch. As we discuss in the series, if his hand is above his elbow, you'd want to either chop him and break the arm down first, or go a different route. But people try to tie you up by grabbing clothes all the time. No magic bullets here. Practice.
@alfredtink So don't use it in a grappling match. The grab is very easy if someone is pushing against your or grabbing at your belt, etc. And the "twist" is applied, essentially, by the palm grip. It doesn't take any extra time; it happens when you grab correctly and then use your body weight to step outside. On Snap, No Tap!, we demonstrate these moves with a 190 lb guy pulling them off on a 300lb power-lifting record holder. Not about strength. It's about technique.
This move is awesome. Took me a while to learn it, but now I got it. And once you get it properly you can just feel the power you have, and how easily you can break the arm.
Brilliant stuff... This man knows his biomechanics
Awesome maneuver . I was shown this as a way to get out of a bear hug. Thumb knuckle to top of opponents hand to make him release. grab under wrist, apply hold. Snap . Was shown to me by L. Thesz. Thanks for the post.
Tony is the real deal. Keeping carny hook style alive
Thank you Tony, you pretty much sum up all these internet warriors in one sentence. Thank you for your video!.
cecchine is the fuckin man baby
Great stuff! I like it and I'm glad to see someone else twisting the wrist.
thanks for talking about this grab....i practice chin na grappling and my teacher grabs the same way you describe..we even practice drills to sneak into the position...when i was first learning it i didnt know how practical it could be since it was an unusual position...but it works really well....i had never seen many people really explain this thanks for putting this up and giving us all some insight.
I like the intelligent way Tony explains and shows what other people only claimed to know the answers to a few years ago. I like his videos and DVDs. Can you post some simple counters to guillotine in guard, and naked choke in guard, and counter to Boston Crab? Thank you thank you thank you.
Brutal Lock!!!!
Thanks-Tony, love your material,plan on addding the snap-no-tap to my laoh.keep the good work up.
Awesome!
the double wrist lock is AWSOME, its the first thing I learned... its good for self defense, good for reactions....
Its all about some guy trying to grab you... twist that rist
brutal i love it!! can't wait to try in Bjj class. of course with control..
@Mider999 We recommend them all, obviously, but this series along with LAOH and RIP give a great overview.
Excellent demonstration
Whoa, that's cool. Tony snapped that stick!
And it sounds like he also issued a challenge to Mark Hatmaker!!
Nasty should be called Snap Wrestling! 😉
@S2JCREW They are a great compliment to each other. LAOH is primarily a ground series, while Snap no Tap covers standup grappling and striking as well as a little bit of the ground game. Once you get one you'll want the other not just because of the moves shown, but because Tony is such a great teacher and explains things so well.
Wow good instructional video. Using props like the wood stick was good.
@nunchukus Yes. It's actually a nice come along, because the pressure on the forearm can be applied at any time. You don't have to break the forearm; the pain alone is good for compliance.
Thank you! I’ve been missing the “patty cake” from standing armbar.
I just broke my fucking broom.
@cecchinecatch i had an oak dowel in my room that i wasnt using and im severly out of shape im 6'0 254 ibs. never worked out a day in my life and i easily broke the dowel so that should show just how amazing this technique is
to Ii m this wrestler says in the Ideal world best is to do it as he shows....
Good job!
It definitely works when in the right position
just checking out your you tube videos and to say hi. i am enjoying your snap dont tap series that i bought last month.
What's great about TH-cam is that people are now able to see that the years-long attempt to discredit Cecchine is exactly what it's always been: an attempt by a couple of his competitors to grab market share. They relied on people not having seen the material to attempt to discredit it through whisper campaigns or "concerns" about Tony's coach's bona fides (at one point, they denied Radwan even existed!). They can't do that any more. And TH-cam helped expose them.
@Zwerchhau Not sure you can. There are others teaching catch wrestling, but most of those aren't teaching hooks. Always ask where a potential teacher learned his catch. Most people claiming a catch background are tape trained -- usually from The Lost Art of Hooking. My advice? Use the url at the end of each clip we have here and contact Tony directly.
You sir are amazing at explaining! I get put down for being skinny so now I know what to do if some jackass tries to start on me
@phattybmc Well, thing is, double wrist lock has been known long before Kimura was born, but its origins are in Judo. The term "Kimura" is used in BJJ for reverse ude-garami, because Kimura Masahiko used it to submit Hélio Gracie in their famous fight.
I wish there was a single intrusctor in my country of CACC....I've learned a few tricks by watching tony and they are devastating techniques....elite nonetheless
Incidentally, do drop back by and let me know when Billy Wicks posts some clips from his instructional videos. Ditto Johnny Huskey. I promise to give them a fair viewing. Of course, they'll actually have *first* to put some of their coaching on film in order to cut clips and post them, but then, that's just nitpicking, isn't it?
Great stuff !
keep em coming cecchinecatch because love these techniques. They are so vicious, quick, and simple. These moves almost require no strength rather the proper structure and pressure. I hate the fact that today these BJJ guy continuely say that catch wrestling is strength on strength but rather it's BJJ that does that. BJJ also does not emphises on the swisting the opponent's body in unatural position, blade on blade, the pintching of the arms, or snap no tap. Also Catch does not rely on position.
@hedges1 This series takes you all the way from stand-up to takedowns and throws to the ground. LAOH, for how great it is, is a compendium of hooks / submission holds, along with some very valuable info on ground control. Snap, No Tap! is the best thing Tony's ever done. You can spend the next 10 years training off of it. My kid even uses it to augment his amateur wrestling training.
@cecchinecatch thanks for the response, after trying it out myself I found I was able to get it to work against most guys in my gym but the truly beefy ones, once they got sweaty, I just couldn't budge them. But then I can't budge them with most anything I try so you can't really blame the move for that haha =p
Thanks man helped alot
thats exactly what i was trying to relay with my comment
Just a question about the wrist lock... it seems to me that if the opponent is about as strong as you or stronger there's no way you're going to be able to twist his arm by grabbing his wrist there. It isn't even arm strength against arm strength, it's grip strength against arm strength. If he is resisting, I think your hand is going to slide around his wrist while his arm stays still. That's why you often see kimuras applied with less than ideal arm position imo.
Wrist locks are not considered "small joint manipulation" therefore they are LEGAL in MMA. Only finger and toe holds are illegal joint manipulations. And just because you don't see them in MMA doesn't mean they don't work. Most of you might say they don't work because your school doesn't teach them but all it takes is one person to pull one off in a MMA bout before you disbelievers start trying these out. I learned many wrist locks from Larry Hartsell, Gene LeBell and Gokor Chivichyan and believe me….. THEY WORK!
I am an amateur MMA fighter here in Minnesota and I practice Japanese Jujitsu. I, like you, am a huge fan of wristlocks. However, it is very difficult to do them in an MMA fight for a number of reasons. For one, there is the question of whether or not they're considered small joint manipulation. I don't think they should be because you are allowed to attack ankles. However, we really haven't seen people go for them, so we haven't seen how refs would react to them. The main reasons, though, that they're near impossible to do in the cage is threefold. First, you're not allowed to grab your opponent's gloves. Secondly, when you wrap your hands for a fight, it becomes very difficult to bend your wrist, which mean applying wristlocks is very hard to do. Lastly, MMA gloves still have quite a lot of padding on the back of the hand, which means if you were to go for say a normal outside wristlock a lot of the force you'd be trying to put into his hand would be absorbed by the glove.
+Richard Harrow which school?
HeavySwordWarrior World of Self-Defense: Combat Jujitsu.
@JFDF69 From the Snap, No Tap! set from Paladin. This technique is on the standing submission volume.
Great stuff - my only question would be : how do you set up that 'underhand ' grip , 'cos it don't look easy.
+John Smyth All of this and all similar techniques are based on the scenario that the guy grabs you from the shirt or tries to push you, like people do in street fights very often.
If someone is throwing punches at you - and hes not as slow as a koala - these techniques are not what you should be using.
@nHautamaki the point in catch wrestling si that even if its not initially successful the attemped ends up serving a a distraction, it works fairly well since each failed lock is a transition into ur next one
Does anybody know anywhere in Montana where you can train Catch wrestling?
nice stuff man has anyone ever tried studying to the point were thy go up against the gracies to show its superity and i live in california were cud i take that locally i love technical stuff like aikido but extremly effectiv when u no how to do it
Pray for Costa
@fearthenightraids One of the people Tony demonstrates with in this series is Brian Klaus, who set a world record in power lifting. It works on him, is all I can say. And he'd tell you so.
@CaptainStern2 Well, I can't say with scientific precision, but the stick used was a dowel, so that should give you some idea of the power you can generate even without adding in momentum, etc. The bone in the forearm you are going after is not as thick. And from personal experience I can tell you that the pain from having it even bowed a bit is tremendous.
I use wrist locks tap out black belts in jiujitsu
First, this is a street fighting series, so the entry could be off a grab, a punch, a chop, etc. Second, the shoulder is secured very tightly, and the second attack-the shoulder lock-is affected without any additional "lifting" of the arm (a strength move). Third, wrestlers are used to grabbing arm drags with the palm up, so the grip is natural. Fourth, the "twist" is enacted using body weight and position, not strength. Other than that, the guy's critique is dead on /sarcasm.
You have to post more videos man! this stuff is to good not too. You can destroy a bjj guy with this kind of stuff instantly. I appreciate the fact that you posting something so simple yet effective.
great stuff! any way to upload this from closed guard?
Not that this doesn't work but there are a few things wrong. First this is a different technique than what in BJJ is called Kimura and what is technically called Ude Hishigi Ude Garami which is a bent Elbow lock. Nobody ever claimed Kimura invented; it predates Kimura, Kano and probably the Meiji restoration. What he is showing here is what in Old Judo/Jiu Jitsu is referred to as Kanuki Gatame and is a completely different thing. It does work and I teach it in Judo too, but it is very finicky to apply and easily defeated if one knows and understands.
Sure but Kimura learned it from a catch wrestler
question: how you grab the wrist from under. Everytime in this demonstration the opponent give his hands to explainer(don't know what the word is) and then the explainer grabs his wrist from under. but in a real situation he is not gonna give you his hands.
Please open a school in Exton or King of Prussia PA.
completely changes how i do the Kimura
Yeah, Doublewrist Lock is definitely a huge step up from Kimura.
@Mider999 SnT is a cool DVD set. I use BJJ as a main engine so to speak, but some of the stuff in SnT is really effective. If u know grappling already there is a lot of stuff in there to think about and give you new ideas. I cant understand why some people trash the Catch stuff so much. Must be the TAPOUT T shirt faction......
Tony,
Would you be willing to help out with correctional officers in the showing of CACC?
how dare you talk shit about tony cecchine. he is one of america's heros
I recently heard that adcc world champ vinny magalhaes has started to train with cecchine because he wants to improve his catch wrestling skills. is that true?
@nHautamaki You don't really twist his arm, you use your entire body -- hip movement, turn, etc., -- and the "twist" is enacted merely by having grabbed the hand in the proper way. You aren't giving an Indian burn here. This is a timing move -- much like an arm drag (and deployed in a similar way, incidentally).
Probably close enough.Similar to the pine board theory 3 boards = a broken rib.Anyhow its a good confidence booster. That should be the next theoty tested on the Fighting Science show
You mean Stanley Radwan, who worked as an enforcer for the Cleveland wrestling circuit, and who retired as an undefeated wrestler? That Stanley Radwan? I mean, this is the internet, right? It's not like we can't look this stuff up. Search "Radwan Congressional Record." Denis Kucinich read his obit, noting the wrestling career and the bodyguard work, right into the Congressional Record!
@Mider999 Before I was Tony's student I boxed a bit and did Krav Maga and BJJ.
Great vid and good mechanics but still to this day, nobody knows who trained him. Very much convinced that he learned from a DVD.
I
The few people who do just coincidentally have gone on to start "catch wrestling" businesses. So you tell me.
Their stuff is available here on youtube. Compare and contrast, I say.
Kurt Angle vs Daniel Purdel it works
love your vids.althought o do love bjj there is a big difference in sport and combastive moves.much learn both
I can’t snap my brothers on the mat 🧐🤯😭
@FightingTigerMan Are you saying there's a problem with the technique being demonstrated here on film in front of your face? Or do you want us to believe that because Tony didn't put on tights and fake wrestle for money against George The Animal Steel, he can't possibly know anything about wrestling -- despite being trained by a guy who was an undefeated wrestler, a famous strongman, and whose obit was read into the Congressional Record? Is that your thesis? Please, regale us.
looking at my side bar.. I just can't see how BILLY ROBINSON, a legend of CACC, would do this move wrong..
wow
This guy is a choreographer, not a fighter. There is a reason they don't try the underhanded approach in Jui Jitsu, Judo, or Traditional Wrestling. It's because you don't have the leverage to actually twist his arm. He will pull his wrist inside (instinctively... he doesn't even have to know what the fuck you are doing) and breadk your grip. Even if you manage to hold on, he will bring his wrist closer to his shoulder which means that he has more leverage than you. There is also nothing there preventing him from reinforcing by grabbing his own hand. THAT is why we grip the back of the hand. We do it so we can keep the wrist away from the opponent's midsection, shoulder, and opposing hand by keeping our body there as a spacer. Remember, the farther his arm is extended, the more leverage YOU have. This guy is not a rookie. He is just one of those martial artists that wants so desperately to do things differently from existing disciplines that he ultimately uses ideas that didn't stick BECAUSE THEY ARE BAD IDEAS. Looks cool, but is completely impractical and risky. You don't waste a positional advantage like this on a low percentage gambit like that.
I've done BJJ and catch. And all I have to say to you is you're wrong.
"He will pull his wrist inside (instinctively... he doesn't even have to know what the fuck you are doing) and breadk your grip."
Really? If it's so easy why can the guy just pull his wrist free without the twist?
Maybe you should at least TRY catch before you dismiss it.
Flubberlugger Lug
If you're a big guy, yeah, you can make it work. Smaller guys on a bigger guy though, they will lose their grip. With standard technique, a smaller guy might not be able to execute on a larger guy either BUT they at least won't lose POSITION while trying.
Yeah... anyone worth their weight will get out of this before it even starts. Me personally, the moment someone grabs the strong side of my forearm in that position, I think my INSTINCT would be to close the distance and push my wrist toward the outside (as a big guy) and I would probably be able to do it. If it were a smaller person... I don't care how small they are, if you let them close the distance right away (which they are likely to do) , you won't have the strength to overpower them into the hold. If you let them get in close enough to get their elbow bent before you apply the hold, you no longer have a hold (and guess what... you don't have any mechanism available to prevent them from closing the distance.)
But... let's just say you caught him good and he wasn't able to reverse it immediately and didn't close out fast enough....
If he's closed in even a little bit, he's got your arm bent and he can grab your shirt to prevent the lock, or better yet, your belt. If he gets a hold of your belt. not only do you have NOTHING to threaten him with anymore, but you have 2 of your arms committed, and you have your legs both on one side of his body... you know what that means?
PAINFUL TAKEDOWN! That's what that means. DOUBLE LEG TAKEDOWN! (with 2 committed arms, and better yet, a big guy like me will drive you down with all my weight with my shoulder, and all of both of our weight goes down on your back... unless you break the fall by releasing an arm... in which case, you no longer have a hold, and I AT LEAST have side control on you. You've even done the work and raised your center of gravity well above his. That's another reason the focus NEEDS to be on the shoulder lock. In a REAL kimura, if it goes south, at least he has no means to take you down!
And another thing. The bottom grip NEEDS to twist, or you have NOTHING. If you get a standart kimura top grip, all you have to do is grip.
If you get a standard kimura grip, and lack the strength to bend the opponent's arm, you're stuck, right? WRONG! All you have to do is keep the grip at their wrist... and BEND IT UNTIL IT"S UNCOMFORTABLE!! That'll bend their fucking arm!
And also... lets say that you have standard kimura grip and they grab your belt (because if done right, there's no way they grabbed their own... so... don't let them do that) Here's a trick for ya that'll surprise the shit out of them....
Loop your outside arm around their elbow and press on your chest (or grab your collar, shirt, or lapelle. Now they are holding their arm in place on your belt, you have their elbow locked down, and a free arm... what to do...
1. MMA- turn your head away and smash them in the face
2. Tuck your other shoulder into the gap for a judo takedown
3. (the most dangerous by far -but still legal-) Drop your weight deadman style and roll backward. They will fall face-first, you will fall back first still side by side. You have the opportunity to get your legs over his legs and back now. Dig your heels into his back and try to scoot your ass onto his back [so he's face first on the ground, your ass is on his back and your body is perpendicular to his (all the while still having his arm in your belt) and simply.... roll your pelvis toward his head... don't look now.... but you are applying the kimura with only one arm.
The kimura.... CANNOT be escaped if administered properly.
It's too large of a limb held together by such a delicate, inflexible joint. If your opponent EVER lets you get a kimura on him, you better have the know-how to capitalize. That shit is money in the bank.... and if you still want to break his forearm... just do it after... trust me... you'll have time to do anything you like.
Which dvd is this off of.
Tony Cecchine: Snap, no Tap.
@fearthenightraids I have a hard time taking seriously a guy who can't correctly spell the name of the man he's trashing, even though the proper spelling is right there in title. The Gracies have never said anything negative about Tony. And that's why Tony's never had a problem with any of the Gracies.
"Aye just say Tap" -Tap-
did anyone hear tht sound at 7:38 devestating
Standing kimura 40 minutes competition (Mostly MMA) HIGHLIGHTS: th-cam.com/video/xhYvr6WspwU/w-d-xo.html
which martial art is this one?
it's catch wrestling
All well and good to twist the wrist before you crank but how hard is it to do... every time he demo's this he takes about 2/3 turns to get his wrist fully torqued... in an ideal world yeh... makes them tap twice as fast...fine... but it looks awkward to do at full speed and maybe you dont have your fuckin patty cake grip so you just grab any grip you can get
youre right but if you have the chance do the patty cake grip 😂because it will be more effective than any other grip
Something about catch wrestling really fires me up. It's just so dirty and nasty, as expected from a sport started by a bunch of carnies and miners fucking people up.