For my sanity I think my days of Land Rover repairs are over!
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 18 ส.ค. 2023
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I had this exact problem and after spending thousands failing to fix it, the solution turned out to be very cheap and easy: there’s a light bulb behind the check engine light - remove it.
Best comment EVER , pure class ❤
That's what I did
100% agree none of my lights ever come on Sadly even the interior light has decided to join the bulb out club but sadly the bulb is still there ?? R/R L322 Interior light controlled by a computer I ask you ??
Hi, great idea, but as far as I know in the UK the check engine light has to come on momentarily and go off for the MOT. It may be possible to buy a unit that will do that for you and fool the tester.
@@grahammiddleton8447yup it has too and the MOT checks for it
Even the old Series trucks were not that reliable but at least the fault diagnosis and fix was usually straightforward. I feel your pain Mike.
Yes I agree = fancy doing a safari in one of these? Nope!
My top tip - and it applies to most older vehicles, not just Land Rover (though they are what I know best).....All vehicle manufacturers use electrical connectors where the seals have a limited life. When water gets in (and it will) the ECU reads values which are eronious - which it tries to interpret as faults with specific systems. Usually these are misleading though.
Sometimes, you replace a sensor (crank position for example) and strike lucky, not because the sensor was faulty, but because the connector has been replaced.
If you pull apart every connector you can find, drive out the moisture with something like WD40, clean the contacts with contact cleaner spray, fill the void in the connector with petrollium jelly and re-seat them - very often, the problems vanish. The Petrollium jelly just helps keep the moisture out in the future.
This has worked very well on many vehicles - so well, people have viewed it as a miracle.
Had to smile and feel for you. Exactly the reason I got out of repairing agricultural tractors 20 years ago. A van with a bloody great box of spanners and you cant do a thing unless you plugged it into a laptop first!!!!
Yes, the institution awaits!
The busyist mechanics in oyr town are two brothers who specialise in land rover range rover.
Huh. I don't know why. My '71 Series2a has been nothing but a pleasure for the last 42 years. Well, I do change the oil once in a while, and ok, I did change the spark plugs maybe 10 or so years ago. 😂
Every Land Rover owner ( especially those who work on their own cars) have been where you are,
You would think we would know better by now! Lol!
Had a Land Rover 109 pickup as a work vehicle in Africa, it was used primarily off road along railway lines. Every week something would break, the company replaced it with a Land Cruiser FJ 45 pickup, the contrast in reliability was obvious, it never broke down. That experience sold me on Toyota, simplicity with reliability, a perfect combination.
Amen
With a Toyota you will have no problems.
I buy old hiluxs and once bought one that a guy was trying to buy who was a landrover dealer who confessed the land rovers have a huge following but hiluxs are better .
There’s nowt more reliable than a 2LT hilux 4x4 and you can buy them cheap
By contrast, I have owned 2 RR 4.6, and 3 Discovery 1 over the last 31 years. Apart from one dodgy gearbox on the 300tdi Disco, no faults ever, at all over 500k miles.
By contrast, I have owned 2 RR 4.6, and 3 Discovery 1 over the last 31 years. Apart from one dodgy gearbox on the 300tdi Disco, no faults ever, at all over 500k miles.
An ancient American engine, retrofitted with German engine management and British wiring - what could go wrong? D2s and P38s were where LR really took a turn for the worse. Makes one appreciate the simplicity of the classics.
Problem is there is no going back to those days with all the environmental demands
@BritannicaRestorations how true. Soon enough we'll all be driving around in electric vehicles and praying that our houses don't burn down!
I would rather have a hoss and cart than an EV!
My sentiments exactly........I used to have a small business working on Land Rovers and wrapped it up when P38's had got a few years on them and D2's came out . I personally think the best motor for reasonable performance and reliability was the 200/ 300 TDi , after this, basically they turned to crap......@@BritannicaRestorations
LUCAS - 'THE PRINCE OF DARKNESS'
Don't give up, I like watching you fix LR's. And I learn how to fix mine.
I really want to fix this, however I cannot justify the time I spend on this against the value of the vehicle - they are worth nothing here as they are so thirsty and valueless
I was a Bosch trained technician in the 1990's dealing with the "new fangled" fuel injection and encountered these issues all the time. Nobody wanted to pay so changed my career path. Diagnostics using a volt meter was the way then, real tricky with intermittent issues.Good luck finding the fault.@@BritannicaRestorations
Cant argue with your frustration Mike.
This is why i drive a 21 year old astra van with the isuzu engine. It looks like a shed but nechanically its basically a diesel fork lift! With no obd2 no dpf and the most basic everthing else. Keep fit windows too!
Peace and love Mike , best wishes and thank you for the knowledge and entertainment. ✌️❤️🤗
Thanks!
Just bought a 98 Isuzu TF. No air bags
no computer. mechanical pump, no engine management light. No ad blue.
The future is lost to IT.
@@willtricks9432
Ha, the future is Isuzu!!
@@springy-2112 and the missus likes the colour.
Same reason i drive an old Skoda fabia 1.4 diesel, no electronic shit or DPF bollocks
Cut the tracks on the board leading to the check engine light, using two small wires attach it to the oil pressure light..... Light comes on, light goes off, works for ABS as well. 😅
I think that is what it is going to get...
Put my check engine light to the alternator light on my Isuzu
Watched you many times over the years for help and tips and now I know a little bit I know exactly where your coming from. On my 3rd d2 after having RRCand a couple of early 90s and late 2A. Land rovers are a complete pain but easy to work on, literally just gone to my d2 to show our son what a drop link is and the doors won't unlock with the remote lol. Good friend of mine who is a landrover trained mechanic from the tdi and td5 years and has his garage informed me he is nolonger working on any modern vehicles and landrovers only upto the tdi engines. To many electrical problems with them now.
I've got a Disco 2 TD5 diesel and have had it now for over 15 years... I know all the common faults and over the years have kept it running well. It's nice to drive and tows well which is what I use it for. They're not quite as rusty as the earlier Disco 1. My previous Disco 1's I spent hours welding!!... Certainly feel your pain though. I started in the motor trade in the early 70's where things were relatively simple - plugs and points, basic diesel injection and no OBD. Older vehicles had their problems and I remember then moaning about how awkward some jobs were. But now...!! I cannot see how people keep up with some of the potential bills with diagnosing 'the modern generation' of vehicles. Yes, they're great to drive and generally probably more reliable than the older vehicles - but when they go wrong..... well sometimes its knowing where to start.... I taught myself OBD and over the years managed to accumulate various readers to read most things. But sometimes pinpointing the fault can be a night mare! and I avoid where I possibly can, just bolting new bits on because that's what the fault code says! My final comment and one that Ive been saying since I started in the motor trade is, Why aren't the design engineers made to spend some time maintaining and repairing the vehicles that they design. Some of their designs are diabolical and make you wonder if they just do it for a laugh!! But I suppose its just the modern way eh!! Thanks for an enlightening video... I'm in the UK by the way...
I started my career in the 60's and by the 70's had begun working on Renaults, which was a great move for me as they were so awkward to work on, I had loads of work, which stayed that way until I retired. Most European cars have reliability issues that's why I always run Japanese cars ( and motorcycles). I was UK based.
I really feel you here Mike. I fix these POS old Landrovers for a living as well, and they get my back up as well. The trouble with this era of LR products is that the electrical/electronic teams were staffed by gits that liked to make life as difficult as possible to diagnose these in the aftermarket, so you cannot now repair them at any price! Examples being the lack of electronic spares for early TD5's (ECU's, injectors, throttle-pots, etc. etc.) and nothing was made backwards-compatible from later models to help.
Have a cup of tea, forget about this for a day or two.
These Rover V8's were bad enough before any electronics went on them, you just got used to driving through the problems, now you cannot ignore the misfires, etc. Given what you have done to this, I reckon you are looking at a base-engine problem, and with the Rover V8 that usually means sticking/collapsed tappet on hot oil, or worn cam-lobe. That would be the most probably reason why it stays on #2 cylinder. If you had other cylinders misfiring, I would suggest getting an oscilloscope on the crank-speed-sensor output and seeing if it stayed clean as the engine warmed-up, as all the codes set are derived from the engine speed calculations.
Thanks - BUT..
What is this vehicle worth?
C$2,500 over here? IF that - load of people know they are money pits
So why spend $5,000 in mechanics time?
This was a short engine 2-3 years ago with top hat liners etc
IF I was given it I would dive deeper, BUT it's not mine
@@BritannicaRestorationsHad 3 Range Rovers many years ago (V8s). All maintained well and only problem was when one of them started running rough and that was traced to something allowing water into the fuel system, an easy fix. The solution to your problem is easy, drop the vehicle in a crusher!!
How about diagnosing the fault instead of firing the parts cannon at it. If you can't do this yourself, pay someone who can. It can work out a lot cheaper in the long run. I am a diagnostic tech who visits garages every day, fixing problems like this. The hardest thing for mechanics to do is admit they don't have the knowledge or skills required, and ask for help. This is not an offer as i'm in the UK but please take my advise, or better still get yourself some training.
You sound as if you are near the edge but your videos are great and a pleasure to watch. You have so much knowledge that we all learn, you would be good in Landrovers development team. This is my first comment on your channel but hopefully you will solve it and boost your own self satisfaction. I have watched many of your videos and have excellent training for many individuals across the globe. In fact you have had 21k views and 934 likes in one day which is so good.
I hope you continue and wish you all the best for the future. Regards Nigel
I don't know if this would work in Canada, but in Ireland one could get forty red headed mechanics in a little box, Maguire and Patterson was their names, they could solve all sorts of mechanical problems 😂.
Lol!
I'm catching up and watching these latest videos out of order, (so I know what the issue is) but I feel your frustration Mike. You get to that point in life where you feel you've done your bit on a particular thing, and are quite happy to hand it over to someone else to deal with. Think it's called being jaded. I'm like that with my profession too nowadays - it's very much minimal essential. I went down the Toyota route a good few years ago, mechanically sound but as you know can get crispy underneath, but at least you can deal with that without fault codes!
I used to drive LR and Discovers for work, mostly driving in mountain terrain on unmade tracks. They were always in need of constant maintenance mostly steering and UJ's would go. I have had an Mitsubishi L200 its coming up to 160000km and its brilliant. Apart from the usual service items I have had to spend nothing on it.
I work in the mining industry which is extremely hard on 4WD`s. Mitsubshi vehicles have the shortest working life on site, usually scrapped after a single year of service life. The Old Toyota HJ75 has the longest operational life.
Ive got similar problems on my 2014 Renault Grand Scenic!!! Took it to my local very good mechanic who cancelled the codes and took us out for a ride in it. No codes! Fixed!!! No! Anti pollution light came on. Took it back he diagnosed it again, but it had a different code come up. He rang Renault and followed their instructions and its been fine. We took it on a 2000 kilometre journey (holiday) and so far so good. I always say to my local garage...' hasta pronto' see you soon!!!! Electronics are bain of this car!
Hi Mike. I feel for you. In South Africa we have an Afrikaans term for how you are feeling. It's called gatvol, a basic translation would be arse full. I just limit my time to carbs and distributors but then again it's my hobby not a way of making money. Sterkte (Strength) Mike.
Many thanks!
I have a 43 year old Series 3. 88" diesel. It works on the farm. Bought an alternator for it in last seven years. Needs a wheel bearing for next MOT.
Tool kit is a hammer and adjustable spanner. Done.
Fantastic Video, and I feel your frustration. I am now 65 and to my now simple mind, I would not keep my Apple mac coumpter or my Macbook Air outside in all weathers, or my TV for that matter even if I covered them with something waterproof so why do Car manufacturers insist on complicated computers in their tin boxes... I love Landies but when Land Rover advertised the new Defender as having 200 on-board computers, my natural (experoenced) brain says that is 200 reasons not to buy it! Give me a series 2 anyday!
Most of the time it is emission controls that keep pushing the boundaries, but not content with that they fitted ECU's to everything to make driving simpler - even steering today is electronic!
This is the sort of thing we are up against as technicians these days, the public think you plug it into the diagnostics machine and it tells you whats wrong …. If only
my brother, who owns an auto repair shop, declares that he is more an IT tech than a mechanic in this day and age - he's planning to get out of the trade due to pure bldy frustration
I'm a computer engineer and I had to smile at your predicament. The biggest problem with all these error codes in cars these days is how vague they are, and what triggers them. My days are full of error messages that have no relation to what actually caused them. Having worked a bit on Land Rover electrics, I find them frustrating, but also more of a nag than a real warning. Is there a market out there for a modern error database where errors are collected and every possible cause listed? Could let engineers have a night of sleep! :)
Indeed, there is a demand! These codes were Bosch codes and some are available for Motronic systems but not all
Mike don’t give up on us you keep us Land Rover owners sane
I know - without you, there would be no me…
Focus on the classics, the new stuff is practically from a different company. The culture and focus completely shifted throughout the 90s and by Y2K, was nearly unrecognizable. Ineos is the future of the classic LR spirit.
@BritannicaRestorations hey, where's your raccoon, miss the little devil.
Darn thing buggered off years ago!
I often wonder where we went wrong - my Yaris has more power than my 1973 Austin 1100 but the same MPG - one would think it would be more MPG
Swap a plug from No2 sometimes these are faulty. See it throws the code on the cylinder you fitted it to.
I've told my kids that when they grow up, they should become Land Rover mechanics, as it would guarantee them a job for life.
I think your theory about the cable break could be a possibility, for example on the automatics above the gearbox the wiring loom to the xyz/inhibitor switch can have a break causing intermittent issues (had to fix this). Also these TD5s have weird issues due to grounds and battery voltage, if you have replaced so much and with these weird errors it has to be something simple and intermittent, best of luck.
Thanks!
I feel your pain. I was a Land Rover master tech for 35 years and I have had some difficult times. As to your misfire, I once had a P38 (same engine) that had an intermittent misfire and like you, we changed everything, even had the heads off. in the end we borrowed a flight recorder from Land Rover and fitted sensors on everything and it turned out that the fuel pressure was dropping enough to cause a slight misfire. We fitted a new fuel pump and fixed.
If you think D2's are bad, wait till you get a 405 in with110 ecu's all linked on several comms systems. I used to have 10 new land rovers outside with electrical probs all the time. I'm now retired and live on a boat and don't go near cars anymore.
And the added problem is that there are fewer independents who will work on LR's here. Local garages will have nothing to do with them - once bitten, they back heel them. Usually end up at my place.
This vehicle only came in for a stater = no-one it appears in Montreal will touch them.
They suck so much time out of your day - and I do not have the tech and tools to repair them - and I am not going to invest any more time or money in them.
Don't mind transmissions and axles - but not taking them out or fitting them!
Yes, I often had contact with the engineers that designed and developed the system that was faulty and they would come out and scratch their heads. Most of the issues were cheap wiring looms and buggy software.
Our eldest is the workshop manager (and on the tools) at a LR Indy repair shop here in the UK. None of the folk that work there drive LR's.
After 2 LR's that went pop (120k and then 80k) my OH bought a Kia. It's got a 7 year warranty - currently 5 years old and the only real failure is the electronic handbrake module, she's had 4 of them already.
Hmmm, a very from-the-heart video. I enjoyed it. I once had a 1958 MK1 Land Rover and a 1972 MK3 Land Rover. Neither of them had computers or O2 sensors, etc, and neither of them gave fault codes. Both vehicles were simple and reliable. I now have a 1992 G-Wagen. It's reliable too. Modern vehicles seem to be a nightmare.
Right on!
Have a chat with the couple in Germany who run LR time here on TH-cam. Very informative.
I drive a 1995 Hilux Surf which I have owned since 2004, It's my daily drive and smooth as a magic carpet. All I have changed is 4 ball joints and a radiator, at this rate it will be with me to the day I die.
Problem solving keeps the brain young and one's skill set up. Huge thanks for all your fantastic advice and videos!
Happy to help!
There comes a time in all our lives that the challenges are not with the effort. Thanks for the great educational footage, although I am a last LR engine TD5 110 enthusiast.
I feel your pain. After 30 years of owning Land Rovers and spending a lot of time and money on repairs, I now own Isuzu’s and my troubles have disappeared. If it helps, check if the wiring loom between the rocker cover and ecu is leaking oil through the cable. It will throw a fault and the loom will need replacing. So glad I lost my interest in JLR
By contrast, I have owned 2 RR 4.6, and 3 Discovery 1 over the last 31 years. Apart from one dodgy gearbox on the 300tdi Disco, no faults ever, at all over 500k miles.
i totally understand the sentiment ....frustrating but not only in landrovers.... however i do think it possibly a wire that is corroded or similar hours of searching involved though..
Feel the pain!! I have a defender only workshop here in Aus.. pumas can be a nightmare! Just makes me love tdi’s!!
So funny.. my landrover has a Toyota engine and box! 🤫
We've now reached a point in time where the first generation of vehicles to have complicated electronics are getting old, and if they go wrong, they are almost impossible to fix. I wonder what we'll be saying about the current crop of new cars that are even more complicated in twenty years time. The moral of the story is, if you want to keep an old vehicle running, get a very old one that was built back when cars were simple.
I've got a little 19 year old Suzuki Vitara, it just goes and goes and goes, brilliant off road good on fuel and not at the menders every few months.
yeah, they fun i had a samurai for many years, not much repairs other than basics, insane well in the mud but well... missing the power to do hills and towings. 1300cc engine -) i sold it when its started to rust to bad but main reason the car was too small for me.
I’m sorry you seem to be having a rough day with those land rovers, you did make me laugh though 😂
I know what you mean, Mike. I had a TD5 Disco that looked the part but was constantly flagging up codes. Even stopped one day on the motorway for no reason. Piece of crap. The 'three amigos' were the worsed....... I wrote this thing off travelling to the UK from France trailing a 200tdi Defender on the back. The trailer jack-knifed under the Disco pushing the back axle under the boot. Best thing that ever happened!!!! Insurance paid out, got a 300tdi Disco and never looked back. I'd never ever buy another TD5!! Maybe a 300tdi conversion into a TD5 might be an answer?????? Paddock now have five sets of my 300tdi engine conversion kits in stock - I'll keep you updated. Cheers, Alan.
Problem is we cannot do old school any more because of the 'environment'
But when you think about it - the energy that goes into making 'cleaner engines' will use more materials and complicated computers that eventually go wrong, to produce what? Back to the MPG we had in the 60's
Totally sympathise with your frustration! As I was watching the video I was thinking of typing 'Toyota' as a one word comment - but you said it for me! 😀
Exactly!
Hey mike ive got a couple old disco 2s that have unfathomable electrical faults and the need of some left handed welding. Ill nip them up right away 👍
Just a few thoughts. Sometimes we get so stuck in the weeds we forget about other possibilities. Others have mentioned the wiring, always a possibility. When you had the intake out did you check for carbon? Does this engine have EGR? I see the misfire code picks cyl #2. Sometimes a valve gets some carbon on the stem and intermittently hangs open a bit causing a misfire. An induction cleaning and an "Italian tune-up" (wind the engine to redline a couple of times) sometimes provides a budget fix. You could swap #2 coil/wire/plug with another cylinder, then drive it (or explain to customer and let them drive it). Or provide the kit an Audi mechanic told me about for old cars with pending expensive failures: A razor blade and a match. The razor blade to cut the fuel hose and the match to finish the job!
Bad plug!
compression test when light appears. most likely a hair line crack on one of the valves
Misfiring plug!
Took your advice years ago. Bought a 1998 Toyota Hilux Surf 2.7 (3RZFE). Best decision ever. Even the a/c still works!
Well done!
More than half the trouble these days with vehicles is that they're full of elecshittery that is ridiculously over complex,and costs an absolute arm and a leg to fix when things go wrong,which they invariably do. I don't want steering wheels that shake if I come from between two white lines-I'm more than capable of turning my own lights and wipers on and off and I can certainly use my foot to apply the brakes if I get too near the vehicle in front. I don't need electronic crap to do it for me!
The other problem is you have twerps sat in design offices coming out with the most crass designs that beggar belief regarding the most simple of design concepts. Who in their right mind designs a vehicle where the body has to be removed to carry out certain jobs on the engine-a complete Pratt in my opinion!
Oh,and for the record,I used to teach design within secondary schools-my mantra to my students was always bear in mind the KISS principle-something that seems to be sadly lacking within design departments of today's mass manufacturers!
I totally agree! Too many driver aids, and when they do not function - MoT fail time!
About 11 years back when I was in the UK, I wandered round a local UK scrapyard - all concrete, vehicles on nice racks, guys to take parts off for you - I had a wander about as I knew the owner, and I was blown away at the number of cars that were rust free.
He casually said - MoT fail probably - ECU faults - cost more to fix than the car is worth
Madness
Designed for assembly, not fixing. Minimum cost to the manufacturer, maximum cost to the owner, who never bothered to see how accessible things are before buying. The university clowns probable have no experience in repairing things, and people like you and I are just dinosaurs, who used to use draughting machines/ drawing boards, instead of computers. Both my Jap vehicles have carbs on them too.
I've owned the series 2 discovery with the td5 motor and didn't have any issues until I stopped in at a puma petrol station and the blimming thing wouldn't start!! Turned out that the wifi that they had was mucking about with the computer.. I had it towed to my workshop an turned the key and no issues started straight up. Now I have a series 1 discovery with the 300tdi, and it hasn't let me down once. It's not a race car but it's sure is a beautiful vhicale to drive!
Best LR they made - rustproof it and keep it!
Mike, like many have mentioned previously, I feel your pain.
TL;DR: If you like the look of a Defender, but want reliability, then consider a Toyota LandCruiser 60 Series. If you want a Defender that's completely reliable, then a $80k+ RestoMod is probably what you should be looking for (keeps the look, but brings in modernity). If you know how to work on vehicles, then have at it. Find a decent budget project Defender. But if, like most, you want an average Defender that's reasonably reliable for a decent price, then that's where you'll find trouble. This does not exist, unlike Toyotas.
Defenders aren't for the faint of heart; especially Defenders that weren't ever made for the US/CA market. Here in SLC, there are a handful of "specialist" Landy shops that are overflowing with projects because they've got owners with more money than common sense. These projects are waiting on parts, then more issues arise, the owners frustratedly ok the new work, then they wait again for parts, then the job gets put to the back of the lot and there they stay. Owner hasn't paid the full bill, shop has it out of sight/mind, and months/years go by. Being a bit more of a seasoned mechanic, in my opinion, I kind of knew what I was getting into. I've always loved these Defenders. In Brazil, Defenders and Toyota Bandeirantes (FJ40's with a truck bed and extended cab (akin to a 130)) were the goto offroad vehicles. I finally decided to bring one in to the US. Then another... and now my 3rd. I daily drive my 1996 130 TDI, but know full well that I must have a plan B during travel at all times.
Never came to Canada. Cannot drive RHD here in Quebec
@@BritannicaRestorations The ones in Brazil are LHD. Pretty cool little trucks. The older ones had Merc diesels. Later they went to Toyota diesels.
For example, the control unit reports to me _All the left lights are not working, I have no diesel in the tank and 40 other errors. Change the control unit. I think your chip is faulty. Don't give up and keep at it. You are doing great and we love you all over the world my friend.😊👍
Thanks, but it gets to a point that the value of labour is more than the vehicle is worth..
I once had a Eberspächer Parking Heater, a Disaster. Wasted 2 Years taking out and in. Electronic failure, after failure, changing new parts for new parts😬
Lol! A lot of the Defender campers that swing by, are fitted with these air/water heaters, and I would bet 50% are not working
Totally understand your frustration, I don't own any vehicles with electronic control systems, nor will I work on any. All my cars, motorcycles, vans, and lorries are either over 40 years or very near, I don't think it matters what modern vehicle you drive they all have electronic gremlins that no one can fix. I'll take chatty chatty bang bang any day.
I have a 2008 GL420 for 8 years. Havent really had any problems beyond wheel wear and tear parts. Just a couple of sensors and solenoids went.
Mate! Adopt another raccoon! Simpler and easier times. Also. Servicing old Toyota’s. You answered your own question right there. Bring back trash panda!
Not that many Toyota trucks here
I would immediately suspect the loom! Depending on where it has shorted out the codes will be different. I now live in Malawi and don't have the luxury of replacing parts as I can't get them here😮
Mate i can fully understand how you feel regarding electrics. My Disco 4 and ‘96 Defender are fine but my ex wife’s Ford Transit has a gremlin in the sensor in one of the passenger seat belt stalks. No a safety issue as such but the airbag warning light stays illuminated. No problem with that either BUT it was due for a yearly registration check and the part required can’t be found in stock in Australia and is on back order overseas meaning the rego will run out and can’t be registered till the problem is fixed, effectively putting it off the road waiting for a “two dollar” part. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr
Wire in a 3 ohm resistor in the seat-stalk circuit - ecu will see the correct resistance & be happy. Bin off the ford sensor, just connect the seat-stalk wires to the resistor.
@@jamesward5721 thank you mate, much appreciated.
If all sensors have been changed and fault still occurs then I would say there is most likely an issue somewhere with a bad connector or a damaged wire. The difficult part is finding the damn thing as it is intermittent.
I just did a Google on misfire detection, and it says that early ECUs never had a specific sensor for misfire detection. The suggestion is that crankshaft position timing is used for the purpose. That seems a bit shonky to me, but possible I suppose. I also wondered if a knock sensor could also be used for detection of combustion, as opposed to pre-ignition. If the vehicle used to be good, i.e. you are sure it is deterioration not a design flaw then I would be thinking - ECU grounding; Knock Sensors; ECU clock (oscillator).
There are loads of videos on TH-cam with people saying that LR's from 2010 onwards are notorious for their flat batteries after opening the doors too many times. This is because the car has a startup animation every time you open the door and it drains the battery. Yku can't jump start it, you cannot even get jumper cables to charge it.
my '98 disco has a problem for many years now already, the alarm went on each 10 minutes or so when the car is locked, i disconnected the sirene but the real problem never found, so now it drains the battery quick, if i keep drive at least once a week its not a problem but when i forget it too long i need my homemade 7mtr long jumpercables as its always parked in my small garage-( its a way of life as a LR owner-)
OK. There are many factors that can throw a Check light. Could be an ecu fault or wiring fault. Speculation is pointless however. I have been where you are and, I had three separate electrical issues, not the fault of Landrover, more by previous bodgers. Mine was 14 cux hotwire, not Gems.
I had a faulty injector plug, a broken wire from the ecu and a faulty steppermotor plus, some other age related glitches, on 30 year old wiring and connectors. The car now, runs perfectly. Mark Adams at Tornado may be your best option. Otherwise just forget the engine light if this is an option, or dump the car.
They are the cat damage misfire codes it is part of the OBD requirements, the MIL lamp flashes when the mis fire is being detected
My 2 previous Discovery 1's emptied my wallet in terms of putting right other people's bodges and chasing the dreaded tin worm. Great fun to drive and had bags of character, however, the 2017 Ford Mondeo I am now driving has never put a foot wrong, is comfortable, has great MPG, equipment levels and hasn't up to now cost me a penny in unexpected repair costs 🤞
D1 300Tdi 2 door was one of my best UK cars
@@BritannicaRestorations :) I have one, a '97 from the Special Vehicles that I'm restoring. It's nearly done now, and will be mint. So glad it has minimal electronics. Glencoyne Engineering who you mentioned in a video will not touch the Disco 2 and later models.
I still miss my 95 300tdi ES, learned to weld on her.
I had a 2016 Ford Fusion 1.5 Ecoboost. The transmission failed at 120,000 miles. The engine failed at 140,000 miles because of coolant intrusion into cylinder. Ford finally fixed the design flaw for that engine in 2021.
If my mates Disco 3 does not come up with a suspension fault on a daily basis then we would start to worry, on the odd occasion you can be standing next to it and it starts bopping about from front to back and side to side for no reason what so ever. No idea to this day why it does it out of the blue. I still own a 43 years old series 3 Starts and stops as it should. (most of the time )
I had similar problems. In the end i changed the emissions sensors in the exhaust, and it sorted it out straight away. I was starting to loose hope as well.
Just replaced with 4 genuine ones
@BritannicaRestorations oh dear... do you have strict emissions rules where you are? Could you removed the stupid secondary air injection system?Iv only got 2 sensors in the exhaust, mine is a early model in the uk
I do not think it is that - besides I fixed the secondary air injection system faults
I see where you are I am in the same boat in the heating industry in the UK, I've had a gut full of it. I sold my van and I'm jacking it in and wouldn't you know it I have an inspection 2 weeks before I wrap it up, FFS it just never ends.
Aye, you walk through treacle for years trying to scratch a living, the one day, you get to a point you say f*ck it. Problem is in your apprenticeship, they never tell you when that point will be!
I sympathise with you. We have a few long term customers who have land rovers, most are in the process of ditching them although finding a buyer is hard. One has bought a range rover even after all the mechanic's said no in a blunt manner and told them it was a money pit. It was , for what she has spent she could have had a nice boringly reliable Honda Civic. The hand brake module failed and somehow the brake locked on and she drove it destroying all and sundry brake parts. The electric motor is above the chassis. People come to our shop and say I hear you repair land rovers, no is the answer , we only look after one, and when its sold no more. Problem is no one wants to buy them.......
One of my cars has an engine light that wouldn't go away, was told it was due to E10 fuel, which turned out to be a fib. Finally had a mechanic look at it. Turned out to be a small hole in the exhaust. In his opinion it wasn't really worth the welding.
GEMS D1s suffered the same misfire issues, usually due to vacuum leaks, sometimes from through a bad brake booster, or bent reluctor rings on flywheel. You already addressed the other common causes.
The Bosch system is way too complicated ! Not suitable for a 4x4
@@BritannicaRestorationsBosch electronics are a nightmare on motorbikes too! Will drive you insane
My Disco 2 had a wiring harness Issue when it had a ‘misfire ‘on acceleration ( back when I had it 2000-2010)which was a common fault here in Wales / UK …. Gone over to the Hilux as my landrover loyalty was tested beyond limits by the fragility of stuff that gets it from A to B they are great at the off road but but the ‘easier’ getting you to and from the off road / everyday running about they are dire
There's several ways to sort this kind of fault. Instead of driving them around, just let it run in the driveway and give the wiring harness a good tugging, chances are it'll bring the light on doing that. I chuck the engine harness in the bin, and 90% of the time, it's good there on. If there's other issues, I'll upgrade the ECU to a haltec or something similar. Far cheaper, easier, and more reliable than changing every sensor.
Stick with 300s and series engines Michael. Jam........ns You are a good man Michael! ! !
Thanks!
Ever read the Odyssey? (Neither have I.) Odysseus is instructed by Tiresias to take an oar from his ship and to walk inland until he finds a "land that knows nothing of the sea", where the oar would be mistaken for a winnowing fan. At this point, at last his journeys would be over. It's time for you to go where nobody has ever heard of Discos or Range Rovers... You're a better man than I, Mike; I'd have gone over the edge years before this.
Nice one Dave! When I came to Canada I sold most of my tools as I didn't want to work on vehicles - but finding work was tough as my French was no good, so I got sucked into the LR biz - they found me!
Mike the answer was right in front of you staring you in the face, take the bearings and shaft from centre, console, pop the bonnet, give the engine a real good hiding, shut bonnet. Job done, from Steve near Chester England 🏴 where the Roman's once lived. Just come back from cumbria, again, Oh on the back of a wagon of course 😢.
Lol!
It's not just Land Rovers that are so bad. Had a Volvo 940 that suddenly stopped at a railway crossing, on holiday and so on. My wife had her bicycle in the back!! Spend thousands on that car: injectors, tdc sensor, airflow meter, manifold gaskets engine module and so on. Volvo v50, actually a Ford Focus: better but always the electronic components that play havoc. Modern cars last only a few years and then start to cause problems and should be returned to the blast furnace! Regards Harry
Looks like I’ll be keeping my 28 year old Nissan Terrano 2 for a while longer. The most electronic part is the phone in my pocket. Totally mechanical fuel pump and gear driven timing and not a spot of rust anywhere. A whole lot more reliable than this modern stuff.
That's exactly the reason i bought a 300tdi.
Mike you said it runs great so hand him the keys, take the money and pretend you didn't see the fault code. Wave goodbye and hope for the best and if comes back because of a fault code, then look suprised and tell him you are booked out fixing bloody landrovers. Cheers
Actually I do say this to customers who want recent vehicles looking at - I am just not interested any more...
I'd say somewhere around 1998 is the end of reliability for Landys. I had a 96 D1 300tdi manual with no computers and it was dead reliable and simple. But it succumbed to the contagious tin worm infection. Eventually I had to wear gum boots to drive it in the rain because it had so many holes in the bulkhead/cowl/lower windscreen area. I really have no interest in anything D2 or TD5 or newer that is computer controlled.
Yes the old D1 300Tdi was a really practical vehicle.
Over here they fitted V8's and every electronic device they could find
Christ, Mike, if you can’t fix it then no one can. I can only imagine the frustration of that open ended arrangement of ‘drive it around and fix whatever’.
I will be driving around forever! C$50 for 23L of quality petrol?
Land Rover days are numbered far too complicated for a 4x4 nowadays
@@BritannicaRestorations Petrol is over $2.20 a Litre In Australia. Politicians are pissing on our heads and telling us it’s raining.
Tell me about it! When we had lockdown it was 70 cent/l!
And they still made a profit!
This dam is gonna break one day - I do not know when or what will be the final point, but mark my words, it will come.
Housing, rent, food, fuel are taking the last pennies out of our pockets
@@bigm383still cheap by UK standards… 🤬
@@nickboylen6873 Ironically both countries have massive petroleum reserves!
Yea. I would never touch a Land Rover with electrics like this. Just the basic electrics in my Ninety is about all the trouble I need.
It only came in for a starter replacement! Oh, and can you have a look at this.....
well with all the simpathy we chear here up - wont help you
also going back to the stone age, neither
let it stay in the cold for some days and everytime you pass by give it a kick, this helped me
just a few thoughts ...
disconnect all electrical devices that was installed later, perhaps this radio or whatever it is, if it is not the original one.
your obd reader is out of time - if there is a bosch service center near by, give it a try. maybe they can reset the whole system
if you change parts in some cars, you have to tell the ecu what it is, so it will adjust itself to it
maybe it helps you. here they scrap them, here in southamerica as far as i know nobody can fix this money pits
and wait until the first new defender appears at your front yard, than you have fun ... 85 ecu´s ... lol
No more electronic LR's for me! The Lynx is suitable for the D2 as it picks up codes others do not
You can pick up LR products here for next to nothing in Quebec as nobody will touch them.
Once out of lease they are give aways
Have you tried re-Earthing the LR computer? Sometimes a bad earth on the computer can do these things.
Good luck.
Also Earth the engine block, directly to the battery.
Morning from Bristol Mike,these systems ,are a pain in the rear at times ,now the thing is the eml flashes when the fault is presented whilst the engine is running because it's emissions related,once and only when it's completed a drive cycle will it set as a stored fault code that brings the light on constantly,my old SD1 Vitesse EFI used to do this to me ! I got to the bottom of it after months Of tearing my hair out, mine was the injection control wiring harness intermittently losing continuity to its earth,on cylinder 4.
Could I suggest you get the dam thing good and hot and then try a tug test on the Injection harness,yours in sympathy mate good luck.
The problem is this is a Bosch engine not the GEMS access to the injector wires are almost impossible!
I've had similar electronic issues with a clio. At least two modules had old soldering joints that had cracked causing intermittant problems. Others had discovered these issues through tedius research but what hope does the average mechanic stand?
The engine light will flash with a current misfire and then stay on because it's an emissions fault (the generic catalyst damage codes) but something is up with cylinder 2, could be mechanical, wiring or way back to the injector driver in the ecu, that's the fun of it. Maybe the bosch codes are from that scan tool, I know using Star on Mercedes gives 6-digit fault codes instead of 4-digit generic P0300 codes, etc. It could even be something as silly as an earth point being off, I wish you luck!
Could be - but this is a case of sorting out someone else's problems if you saw when there were no seals on the injectors
Swap all the parts you can from cyl 2 with another cylinder. Clear the codes. Tell customer to drive it until the light comes on again and then bring it back. See if the code moves to the new cylinder or stays on 2. If it stays it's mechanical. If it moves then it's something that you swapped.
Had one from new 18 years later done with it. They are a three year vehicle n get rid. Done with em.
I can totally empathise Mike...had similar woes with that lovely looking X Type Jag that's sitting outside....every time I fixed something it would be fine for a while and then throw up a series of unrelated errors to sort....which is why I gave up on it and bought the Missus the Freeloader....it's far less hassle.....that's also why I never bought any Landy newer than my 300tdi Defender, that's been amazing for most of the 20+ years I've owned it...I hate ALL modern motors with their ridiculously complex electrickery
I agree - the complexity to reduce emissions far outweighs the longevity of vehicles - scrapped because of an ECU problem and throwing a check engine light even though it runs fine?
BULLSHIT!
@@BritannicaRestorations ...welcome to the "green" world eh?
Like a cow - goes in green - comes out shit coloured
I have 2 defenders, a td5 and a TDCi, they’re tipper work vehicles, I absolutely hate them, but have no other options. I had to get another work vehicle and toyed with a new defender, decided to buy a Toyota SWB Landcruiser, it’s absolutely fantastic, I’ve heard so many horror stories about the new (not a) defender.
This feeling of despair, along with loosing the will to live is a normal state of affairs for Landrover techs. The newer they are, the worse it gets. Did you have the No2 misfire code before all the work? If not, maybe swap 2 and 4 plug, lead(if it'll fit) and even injector? I recently had a v6 freelander with a misfire, and the genuine new injectors I fitted were faulty out of the box. They'd click when activated but no fuel would flow. Utter shite. Misfires are detected from the crank sensor, although if it was a sensor fault I'd have thought the misfires would be more random. How about doing a manifold vacuum test too, just to see if you have any mechanical issues before taking anything apart?? Good luck with it Mike...Jameson's will overcome 🤣🤣
Oh, I understand this sentiment. But they have that special feel about them. Oi.
I had similar problems on another car. ( Lada, with a Bosch ecm system ) Turned out to be the speed sensor that somehow caused the ecm to send out fault codes about misfiring on various cylinders. The speed sensor itself never caused any codes .....
Strange!
I had a ford focus with similar random codes.....wiring.... Sold it and bought an Opel.
I sympathise with you Mike, Every time I venture past 3.5 Zenith fed Classics and dare to show faith in a bit of luxury with Central locking or if I dare electric windows it bites me in the arse :-)
I blame BMW and their infernal green designs......
Best Landies I ever had?
SII-a ex army ragtop and my 83 LT95/3.5 Carby Range Rover classic (Still have that one).
My 97 300TDI Disco (R380 poverty pack) is close to reliable due to (I think) its lack of electronic management but until Ive put it back together (Dropped Valve crunchity crunchity) compliments if previous owners overheating and subsequent shoddy mechanics laziness Im Land Roverless.
Thank christ for Chev V8 Conversions eh?
I reckon they were onto a good thing with the Alloy Rover/Buick lump lol
As I replied below to another contributor
KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
We like our Land Rovers as they used to follow this principle,
But those days are long gone
@@BritannicaRestorations Yup and the Aussie market has a continuous feed of Solihull's products compliments of driving on the correct side despite our small population unlike North America.
For what its worth Mike, Series 2 Discos are worthless here unless you are silly enough to buy from a Dealer and $1000 AUD will get a private well worn S1 or 2 with 250 to half a million km of a nice one for under 10k.
The amusing thing for me is both variants will need many hours and dollars spent its just a matter of now or next month in the timeline.
Yeap, owners here think 'classic' D1,D2, RR etc are worth a fortune as they have sunk so much money into them - just money pits..
No more
On a good day D2 & P38 electronics are intuitive & rewarding systems to take on with a good diagnostics tool ( I've an excellent old rovacom system)....
hard earned experience has taught me there's a lot lot worse systems from that era to frustrate any experienced techi
worst in my experience is Porsche Cayenne or Audi A8 electronics which are a total minefield featuring un swappable tattooed ecu' s & components which are totally unworkable without a main dealer cloned diagnostic tool. It's not just dodgy land rovers that are out there to frustrate !!!
Edelbrock carburetor and intake with a distributor solves the problems
I feel your pain........
I had 4 discovery 1s, both diesel and V8 petrol, manual + auto, for business use
I loved em........................but they nearly bust my business .............
i spent more time working on them than on my customers vehicles..
We bought a Shogun, 2 years business motoring and also towing our caravan, maintenance only, never put a foot wrong
Sold it to a customer who really WANTED it, and then we bought a Toyota RAV4. owned it for 12 years, maintenance only, didnt even need to put a bulb in it......
Life is SO MUCH sweeter now i dont have anything to do with The Green Oval
There are easier ways to earn a living than torturing yourself with these nightmares
Not to add to your misery, but I well remember what rebuilding the rear brake calipers were like on the P-6 Rover cars. The factory assembled the brakes on the P-6's while the cars were upside down on a jig. Trying to rebuild those inboard rear discs---I'll be the first to say they worked brilliantly when working properly---was a miserable job. The factory flat rate manual didn't give Rover franchise dealers shops just a fraction of the time it actually took to perform a brake system rebuild on the rear of a P-6 Rover, 2000, 2200, 3500, and 3500S. And let's not bring up trying to successfully bleed the drum brakes on a 109" Land Rover with its off-axis dual wheel cylinders on the front wheels. Rover's had some superb engineers over the years, Spen King and Peter Wilkes chief among them, but all-too often Rover's greatest engineers never seemed to consider what repairs would be like once their vehicles were in the hands of the owners in overseas and even home market countries. I got out of the Rover business on 1 January 1986. I'll love Rover products to the day I die, but, and I hate to say this, I'm not impressed by Rover reliability and Rover serviceability! Andy McKane, 22 August 2023, Maunaloa, Molokai.