I find it hilarious that when he needs to turn the head of the bolt he reaches for the nut rounder even when the box end is literally sitting right there in frame.
Oh you know he's got a soft spot for the thumb detecting nut fucker and I'm sure that the thumb detecting nut fucker has got a soft spot impressed upon his thumb
I could hardly see the screen between the fingers of my shield hand ! Is it better to have your palm facing the blast zone or back of the hand ? If the back of the hand gets damaged you can still use your palm, I'm never sure.
Couple factors unaccounted for: You measured the thickness of the material at the roots but not the depth. The proto appears to have a wider head which would contribute to cross-sectional area and thus strength. The 12 point wrench has sharper internal angles which would result in a greater stress concentration all else being equal. Not sure we can really make a materials strength judgment here given the above.
The difference between stretch to torque vs stretch to yield bolts. Stretch to yield breaks when reused. Stretch to torque breaks when it's the only bolt like it within a thousand miles.
As someone with a lifetime of experience in Canadian English and it's MANY colloquialisms, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to watch TH-cam closed captions struggle to comprestand and interpolate your videos!
Please try testing 2 of the same wrench brand new, but quench one in liquid nitrogen first. Let it warm back up before you test it of course. They have been doing this with racecar parts now along with WPC process and the results are impressive. Super cooling it basically "finishes" the metal crystallization that happens during normal casting or forging and converts more of the phases into martensite which is the strongest phase. Might want to double check the process details, I think you just let it soak in the nitrogen for a while and then take it out and let it warm back up. You could probably even leave it in overnight. One of the science channels on youtube did it with bolts I believe and got something like 30% strength increase if I remember correctly.
Man, I've been watching your videos for half a decade, and you're still my favorite TH-camr ! Live all your hilarious sayings and I've learned alot of obscure bits of info I would never have though of in a million years. Keep it up, I'm a long time fan!
I had safety squints fully engaged in Michigan and I might need a change of clothing . Every pump of the pneumatic porta power was a run for the hills moment. Thanks for sharing your time and videos.
The angle on the 12 point being sharper and having a smaller radius at the edge might be a factor as well. 12 pointer just seems like it has more of a stress concentrator, but it has been a couple years since last I had to figure out a stress concetration factor.
Why didn't you measure the width of the box end wrenches? Wouldn't the overall strength be a function of the total cross sectional area of the steel at the weakest point - not just the thickness?
@@brianhaygood183 I came here to say this also. The effective stress is concentrated differently depending on the size of the radius at the sharp intersection. The smaller the radius the higher the stress concentration. How do the two wrenches compare in this regard?
The ring is failing in tension (as the bolt head gets incrementally coc*ed in the ring, it tries to expand the ring, placing the ring in tension) . Crucial factors are strength of the steel, and cross sectional area at thinnest point of the ring. As long as the tolerances are tight enough between hex head and wrench ring, 6 vs 12 point immaterial??
My grandpa used to work for Ingersoll Rand/Proto and they would test their tools for QA against Snap Off and other brands and Proto would always snap last. He'd tell me the stories of how they knew which brand was being tested by the "ping". Goes without saying why I like your testing content I love my hand me down Proto tools. They will definitely continue to earn money for my sons when they're older. Thanks AvE
The 6 pt seems to have a vague flank drive look with a more rounded internal root in the hex and the 12 pt looks more sharp cornered, hence a bit more stress riser ish.
Bolts stretch, period. I worked at a case ih assembly plant for 6 1/2 years as a tester and there was certain hardware particularly larger stuff that was torqued to 500+ ftlbs like the final drives on combines that if something happened and they ever had to be removed we had to throw them away and use new ones in their place. Bolts that went in easily with 2 fingers were like they had thread lock after being torqued and stretched the threads. Believe
stretch occurs between the head of the bolt and where the bolt threads meet whatever it's threaded into. The portion of the bolt that's threaded in does not stretch significantly. You can see in this video AvE's die only got tight when it reached the portion of the bolt that wasn't threaded in.
I still say if you step down in size the results will be different. Grade 8 and 15/16" has to have high tolerances than 3/16 and no grade Chinese furniture bolts. Ftlbs aside, I still prefer the 12pt for the range of motion.
@Captain MufDyven Were you using drill bit lubricant? Were you using chinesium drill bits? It'd be difficult to drill through dry spaghetti if your bits are also made of dry spaghetti. I've personally found more success drilling through metals with molybdenum bits. I have mostly KnKut bits for metal and Fuller brad points for wood.
@Captain MufDyven There's definitely a lot of variability when it comes to Chinesium hardware. It's like they just grab whatever stock is convenient and run it through.
@Captain MufDyven Cheap hardened steel so they don't strip out easily, just like drywall screws. They will take less torque than a grade 2 bolt, but do better in shear. They normally get loose because what ever they are holding gets deformed.
@@kw9849 China can make excellent stuff, they manufacture to a design and price point as per the customer's specs. Which is why the cheap stuff usually falls apart right after the warranty runs out, and the good branded stuff lasts longer.
Isn't the difference in performance down to the geometry of the head? 6pt has more surface area in contact with the bolt, therefore the load is being spread out over more of the head. Whereas the 12pt has less contact surface area and therefore gives up easier as more force going through smaller surface area.
The wrenches have the same contact area on account of the wrench heads being larger than the bolt. We know the heads are larger because they are easy to fit over the bolt if they where exactly the same size you would have an press fit between the wrench and bolt which would require a press of some kind to get the wrench on the bolt.
As long as it makes good contact and the bolt or nut is in good shape a 12 point usually grips well enough to break the bolt. But, a 6 point does grip better since its able to make more contact deeper on the flats. The 12 point really only catches the points.
I would argue that 12pt have more points of contact, but 6 has more area of contact. I'd rather have the latter over the former unless I'm trying to spin something smooth, which is why a pipe wrench has so many "teeth".
Those air pumps can take a little more, I have one, enerpac I believe, used to always do better than other jack pump I had or used. Never occured to me that the relief valve was buggered since new, I recently run across a 10k psi gauge and hooked it up and found out she'll go well above the stop for the needle. Used it for years like that, and of course, anytime you get a jack out you have always have to run right into the red.
One small comment: the modern wrenches are typically broached a little off centre , as is found out when wrenching a nut or bolt with tight clearances, Clarence, requiring one to find the position the wrench will actually fit.
I'd hazard a guess that the geometry of the 6- vs. 12-pt has something to do with the ultimate yield too. 12-pt is going to have more stress risers than the 6-pt.
Would it matter how many there are, when the ultimate strength is determined by the weakest point? They aren't all going to fail at once, just the weak point. I guess having more of them increases the odds that one of them would be imperfect, and thus weaker than expected, but I would think that would just come down to the quality of the original steel.
@@WarrenGarabrandt It wouldn't make a big difference. What really matters is the shape of the wrench. If the bolt head was in an egg shape or a slightly deform circle, you wouldn't need much torque to break the wrench. So essentially, with a 12 point wrench, there is more force trying to expend the wrench and less trying to turn the bolt.
I can answer that for ya; no man is big or strong enough to break a wrench with his own hands. Only will it break when you apply additional leverage or force beyond what a human is capable of. A snipe bar, a hammer, heat, etc.
Yeah, I once thought the same thing I thought the same thing when I came up with the brilliant idea once used a 3/4" with a 8' long cheater pipe. The memory of the sound "ting", the lump on the back of me noggin, and waking up dazed and confused on the shop floor told me otherwise.
@@Sizukun1 You are full of shit. I bought some HF flare nut wrenches and I managed to break one with just my bare hands. Where it broke it was very granulated looking metal.
I stumbled upon your absolutely hysterical banter in the past and apparently didn't subscribe. This time, I hit that bell notification because you sir are a fuckin riot.... Keep it up
Rounding edges on bolts is always the fail point, very real advantage for the 6 point there. I only use 6 point, especially on my socket wrenches where positioning no longer favors 12 points.
I watched this with a face shield and squints on. Much like when I watched my other favorite northern cousin you tuber test how strong motorcycle helmet latches are. Thank you AvE and fortnine.
Both wrenches preformed well considering the torque applied. Proto makes some great tools. Their tools don’t have the same feels good in the hand effect that snap on has. But they are every bit as durable and about half the price on most items.
From my (albeit minimal) experience, the 12-point is generally easier to use because of the extra positions in which it can grab. However, because it's not fully supporting the fastener it has a tendency to round them off. In those applications, the 6-point may be superior. My dad did HVAC work and they would use a "Secure-grip open-end wrench" to keep from rounding off the soft fittings. It's basically that same 6-point box-end wrench with one of the sides cut out.
The “extra grip” is negligible 99% of the time. The advantage of a 12 is immense as you indeed have double the amount of positions to engage the fastener. If you are using a good quality wrench with good tolerances it won’t round it off. I often use Hazet wrenches, a full set of these costs a kidney and a liver. But you can beat them with a hammer and use em everyday and they will hold up. The set I use right now everyday as a heavy equipment/ industrial mechanic has a “Made in W.-Germany” stamp on them. They have seen a lot of use but still fit perfectly with no slop. This “secure-grip” open end wrench you refer to is often used by us when working on hydraulics. Very practical indeed!
That's called a "flare nut wrench", for anyone interested. Any auto mechanic who isn't a sadist, will have a set of SAE and Metric, for brake and fuel line/hose work. Nothing worse than, say, having to replace a brake caliper, but you fuck the hose's nut up and now in addition to replacing the carpet, you're also replacing the brake hose... nevermind that the job won't be done in the initially quoted time frame because you have to wait for the parts store to deliver the new line (assuming they have one lol). But yea, same scenario for HVAC. Rounding pipe flare nuts is one of those classic _"... Ffffffffffffffffffuck 😔"_ moments, no matter the job, be it professional or personal! 🤣
Very similar to brake line wrenches my dad has from his mechanic days. They cut a small notch so it can go around the line, and a solid six point to avoid rounding anything. Granted, I'm not sure those are meant for maximum torque ever, but every extra bit of thread helps for a hydraulic connection.
@@Vikingwerk yes. My 1" that I've had for close to 20 years had the ratchet mechanism crater. Using said wrench as a percussive device may have been a contributing factor.
Very interesting results, not at all what I expected betwixt the two, aside from the inherent higher quality of the Proto. Would you have consider doing a video on the setup you use for this type of testing? It sketchy as frig and I want to build one for myself. Thanks for edumacation!
Your quote at 2 minutes is pretty amazing and something I wish more people would take heed of. It’s important to not exist in an echo chamber and keep an open mind to new ideas and evidence that will help you come to different and possibly uncomfortable solutions. But vilifying people that don’t agree with you and resorting to name calling won’t help further anyones point on either side. I still like you and that peg legged northern hillbilly even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time. That’s what makes community great.
Thanks for this followup! While not Apples to Apples in the strictest sense (diff brands), I'm still quite content with the outcome! A few takeaways and unknowns I observed -- but by no means feel it detracts from the test: - Did the 16pnt round the nut _first_ and the self-generated vibration of it slipping then caused it to snap *OR* did it snap and then the "wider" interface cause the rounding? 🤔 Not sure we'd be able to know without redoing it with a highspeed camera in play, to capture what went down - How much pressure did the first test actually manage to apply to the 6pnt before it bottomed out... Maybe the first test brought it just to its yield, and that second at 4K pissies made it throw in the towel? 🤔 - Unfortunately, I believe we won't really be able to know the *actual* breaking torque on account of the wrench flex absorbing some of that force, right? In a follow up test, not to say there will be one, I think one might need to cut off the box end, leaving a small stub that's just long enough for it to rest on the vice jaws with the destruct-o-matic clamped in said vice. Then it won't have anything that can flex and skew data. Would just need to make sure it was cut cold (CNC or that bandsaw, but either way, using the android blood), to preserve its factory hardening. I think you should've had the John Deere bucket in there, _just_ the bucket, facing away from the toolbench, that you could climb into while running up the pressure!! 🤣
Not sure if I'm ingesting too much or just the right amount of this content. During the dead silence betwixt the porta-power strokes, I catch myself wincing and saying aloud "Holy-O-Fu¢√" just in time to hear the same utterance echoed from behind the camera out from under what I can only imagine is a wad of tarp and moving blankets haphazardly hoisted in front of a man's face and squishy bits like some sort of third world ballistic vest. This is the type of content I internet for. Thank you Sir.
I just don't get it, here is a man who soulfully loves and has a full compliment of quality tools, defaults to adjustable wrenches. Don't think I am being a little fussy about your videos, because they (and you ) are great!
Thank you for your service. Why not start with a straight comparison between the same brand of 6 pt and 12 pt? Seems hard to draw any conclusions due to so many variables?
I think the difference in leverage due to the shape of the wrench has to make a difference in the results. Let's say the bolt head and the wrench were in an egg shape (oval), the slight amont of torque would deform the wrench and the metal would be under insane tension.
I’m thinking there is also different forces at play due to the geometry of the wrenches. Specifically the area when the angle of the contact area. The load is distributed more evenly in the Proto. Not getting into specifics as my thumbs lack typing endurance. Just saying it’s something major to factor in. In addition to manufacturing and metallurgy as you already mentioned.
Heres my 2 cents. As a nostalgia based fan of vintagish craftsman tools, what i have noticed with the wrenches anyway, is that the broach can be misaligned, so you would you can have wall thickness variation from one side to the other.
or does the 12pt break between the points on the bolt? essentially stretched due to the direction of force from the competing faces? while the thinnest part is thicker it is still thinner than the thicker flat section of the 6pt
You can't have a darker substrate, the sub dictates the underneath, sir bumblefcuk. Having said that, love you long time. You're right about this, too. Merry weekend and happy new week.
After the measurements part showing the proto was actually thinner, I was thinking "would be cool if he got a bunch of different brands and tested those" which of course was immediately followed up by AvE "which means we can get all kinds of different wrenches and do experiments on those!". AvE always coming through
![เกิดใหม่ทั้งทีก็เป็นสไลม์ไปซะแล้ว ซีซั่น 3 - ตอนที่ 57 [ซับไทย]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pNhft3YZFRE/mqdefault.jpg)
"So how'd you get all those metal fragments imbedded in your skull?"
Thank you for your noble sacrifice, AvE.
Imagine the hospital visit. “So Mr AvE can you explain why you have a spanner sticking out your head?” “Well Dr funny story….”
@@Downtheshed I did it for TH-cam! Can I be moved to the front of the line?
What wrench? I came in here as I see different smells.
As I get more "experienced" I notice my safety squints don't react as fast as they used to...
@@Downtheshed Can you imagine the ER personnel trying to understand the AvE speak?
Some people are scared of the boogeyman. I’m scared of the Torquestructomatic at 8k psi with AvE welds holding on for dear life.
Those welds would hold up your house.
Id trust those welds with my life
@I am an Absorber AI. Read my about page. I wouldn't worry about it
I find it hilarious that when he needs to turn the head of the bolt he reaches for the nut rounder even when the box end is literally sitting right there in frame.
Oh you know he's got a soft spot for the thumb detecting nut fucker and I'm sure that the thumb detecting nut fucker has got a soft spot impressed upon his thumb
I happened to right there in the vid reading your comment, and about choked on my lunch.
Once a nut-lathe operator, always a nut-lathe operator.
Box wrench is one size, nut rounder is tons of sizes. More = Always better. Plus as a bonus it also makes good for a hammer.
He is called bumble fuck for a reason
Alot of safety squint engagement in this video, even from across the internets.
Yeah, I've my safety squints on watching this, I think AvE was seriously considering his safety GTFOs...
I could hardly see the screen between the fingers of my shield hand !
Is it better to have your palm facing the blast zone or back of the hand ? If the back of the hand gets damaged you can still use your palm, I'm never sure.
My underpants cost £1, and my arse ate about 50p worth during the torque tests!
Proto = snapon
Even had my safety squints on for that one. Sure puckered a little
I engaged my safety squints and my shield hand and could hardly see betwixt my fingers !
Couple factors unaccounted for:
You measured the thickness of the material at the roots but not the depth. The proto appears to have a wider head which would contribute to cross-sectional area and thus strength.
The 12 point wrench has sharper internal angles which would result in a greater stress concentration all else being equal.
Not sure we can really make a materials strength judgment here given the above.
The difference between stretch to torque vs stretch to yield bolts.
Stretch to yield breaks when reused.
Stretch to torque breaks when it's the only bolt like it within a thousand miles.
As someone with a lifetime of experience in Canadian English and it's MANY colloquialisms, it gives me a great deal of pleasure to watch TH-cam closed captions struggle to comprestand and interpolate your videos!
I caught myself leaning my head back and subconsciously applying my safety squints just watching.
What we need here is more Prudence the safety goat!
The first minute and half is pure legend. Wow. That comedy level of George Carlin
That clank noise when it breaks.
I'd be checking myself for new holes.
Check out the fake AD with a Desert Eagle 50 for that. 50 Desert Eagle fail.
Please try testing 2 of the same wrench brand new, but quench one in liquid nitrogen first. Let it warm back up before you test it of course. They have been doing this with racecar parts now along with WPC process and the results are impressive. Super cooling it basically "finishes" the metal crystallization that happens during normal casting or forging and converts more of the phases into martensite which is the strongest phase. Might want to double check the process details, I think you just let it soak in the nitrogen for a while and then take it out and let it warm back up. You could probably even leave it in overnight. One of the science channels on youtube did it with bolts I believe and got something like 30% strength increase if I remember correctly.
Holy crap. What channel
Interesting, would love to see that test. Never heard of super cooling like that
@@michaelthebigaussie Applied Science gave some drill bits the cryo treatment
th-cam.com/video/hAxi5YXTjEk/w-d-xo.html
Applied science made a video about drillbit quenching in liquid nitrogen, that's a good explanation
They’re doing it with some rifle barrels, Sionics is the company I think
Man, I've been watching your videos for half a decade, and you're still my favorite TH-camr ! Live all your hilarious sayings and I've learned alot of obscure bits of info I would never have though of in a million years. Keep it up, I'm a long time fan!
I had safety squints fully engaged in Michigan and I might need a change of clothing . Every pump of the pneumatic porta power was a run for the hills moment. Thanks for sharing your time and videos.
Thanks for going back to your roots. This is the the sort of content I come here to watch.
The angle on the 12 point being sharper and having a smaller radius at the edge might be a factor as well. 12 pointer just seems like it has more of a stress concentrator, but it has been a couple years since last I had to figure out a stress concetration factor.
I think you’re on to something. The 6-point has room for a larger radius stress relief where the faces meet.
I was thinking the same thing. Stress riser do to a sharper corner in the 12 pt? It's kinda hard to see in the video.
Hey thanks as an old mechanic it was fun to watch your ongoing experiment. Mind I do really really enjoy the commentary. Keep up the good content 👌
My butt bit the seat on that one. I look forward to seeing the continuation of this experiment. Thank you, kind sir, for letting us tag along
What is this telling me? I need this converted into a unit i can understand, for example; 250lb gorilla on the long end of a 12' cheater pipe?
I don't recall rounding out too many new bolts (with hand tools), but it's the rusty ones I have 6 point and a hammer for
Yep. And sometimes a size "too small" as well.
Why didn't you measure the width of the box end wrenches? Wouldn't the overall strength be a function of the total cross sectional area of the steel at the weakest point - not just the thickness?
The proto also has larger radii at each "point" than the Craftsman.
no. much like a chain, only as strong as the weekest link, on in the case, thinnest cross section
@@brianhaygood183 I came here to say this also. The effective stress is concentrated differently depending on the size of the radius at the sharp intersection. The smaller the radius the higher the stress concentration. How do the two wrenches compare in this regard?
The ring is failing in tension (as the bolt head gets incrementally coc*ed in the ring, it tries to expand the ring, placing the ring in tension) . Crucial factors are strength of the steel, and cross sectional area at thinnest point of the ring. As long as the tolerances are tight enough between hex head and wrench ring, 6 vs 12 point immaterial??
I thought the same thing. From the video the Proto looked wider.
My grandpa used to work for Ingersoll Rand/Proto and they would test their tools for QA against Snap Off and other brands and Proto would always snap last. He'd tell me the stories of how they knew which brand was being tested by the "ping". Goes without saying why I like your testing content I love my hand me down Proto tools. They will definitely continue to earn money for my sons when they're older. Thanks AvE
The 6 pt seems to have a vague flank drive look with a more rounded internal root in the hex and the 12 pt looks more sharp cornered, hence a bit more stress riser ish.
i own a couple sets of proto and they are flank drive ish
Bolts stretch, period. I worked at a case ih assembly plant for 6 1/2 years as a tester and there was certain hardware particularly larger stuff that was torqued to 500+ ftlbs like the final drives on combines that if something happened and they ever had to be removed we had to throw them away and use new ones in their place. Bolts that went in easily with 2 fingers were like they had thread lock after being torqued and stretched the threads. Believe
I get that a lot where I work, if I have to go back and redo or modify someone’s work, you can tell they have been stretched, tight all the way out.
stretch occurs between the head of the bolt and where the bolt threads meet whatever it's threaded into. The portion of the bolt that's threaded in does not stretch significantly. You can see in this video AvE's die only got tight when it reached the portion of the bolt that wasn't threaded in.
Nothing like a 5 ft cheater on a 2000 ft/lb torque multiplier. Next comes the Thermadyne heat wrench.
I'm excited to see where this torque-ing of your wrenches goes.
Dare I hope to witness some Snap-off destruction?
More fun-stuff happening in these 10 minutes than in the comedy-movies of the last decade combined. I think he should make this a thing.
My day brightens up every time I see you in my bell. Thanks for all the great stuff I learned from you:-)
I would love to know how much strength is lost/gained due to modern radius cuts in the corners compared to the old design of straight corners
I still say if you step down in size the results will be different. Grade 8 and 15/16" has to have high tolerances than 3/16 and no grade Chinese furniture bolts. Ftlbs aside, I still prefer the 12pt for the range of motion.
@Captain MufDyven Were you using drill bit lubricant? Were you using chinesium drill bits? It'd be difficult to drill through dry spaghetti if your bits are also made of dry spaghetti.
I've personally found more success drilling through metals with molybdenum bits. I have mostly KnKut bits for metal and Fuller brad points for wood.
@Captain MufDyven There's definitely a lot of variability when it comes to Chinesium hardware. It's like they just grab whatever stock is convenient and run it through.
@Captain MufDyven Cheap hardened steel so they don't strip out easily, just like drywall screws. They will take less torque than a grade 2 bolt, but do better in shear. They normally get loose because what ever they are holding gets deformed.
@@kw9849 that is exactly what they do. Make more money that way.
@@kw9849 China can make excellent stuff, they manufacture to a design and price point as per the customer's specs. Which is why the cheap stuff usually falls apart right after the warranty runs out, and the good branded stuff lasts longer.
Excellent shop you've got there in the Bikini Atoll.
I too keep a role of pink twig tape around for when I really wanna score. Cheers.
it's just a little airborne, it's still good!
Isn't the difference in performance down to the geometry of the head?
6pt has more surface area in contact with the bolt, therefore the load is being spread out over more of the head. Whereas the 12pt has less contact surface area and therefore gives up easier as more force going through smaller surface area.
The wrenches have the same contact area on account of the wrench heads being larger than the bolt. We know the heads are larger because they are easy to fit over the bolt if they where exactly the same size you would have an press fit between the wrench and bolt which would require a press of some kind to get the wrench on the bolt.
@@nug1903 not at all. The 12pts do have less contact/surface area than the 6pts and they also have twice as many thin places to break.
As long as it makes good contact and the bolt or nut is in good shape a 12 point usually grips well enough to break the bolt. But, a 6 point does grip better since its able to make more contact deeper on the flats. The 12 point really only catches the points.
That's my thinking, as the 12 point rounded the head the bolt wedges the ring apart.
I would argue that 12pt have more points of contact, but 6 has more area of contact. I'd rather have the latter over the former unless I'm trying to spin something smooth, which is why a pipe wrench has so many "teeth".
4 laughs
1 smile
2 snorts
Awesome!
Love your videos and your sense of humor ! 😁😁
Those air pumps can take a little more, I have one, enerpac I believe, used to always do better than other jack pump I had or used.
Never occured to me that the relief valve was buggered since new, I recently run across a 10k psi gauge and hooked it up and found out she'll go well above the stop for the needle.
Used it for years like that, and of course, anytime you get a jack out you have always have to run right into the red.
Be careful with reliefs on jacks. Had a 400 ton relief blow out and kill a coworker a few years ago.
One small comment: the modern wrenches are typically broached a little off centre , as is found out when wrenching a nut or bolt with tight clearances, Clarence, requiring one to find the position the wrench will actually fit.
Roger, Roger.
@@Daniel-Weaver Do you have clearance Clarence?
@@howder1951 Roger,Roger.
Oops,I meant Vector , Victor.. I picked a bad day to stop smoking parmesan.
Lots of laughs and safety squints on this one, great vidjo!!
Keep the videos coming man love them.
I'd hazard a guess that the geometry of the 6- vs. 12-pt has something to do with the ultimate yield too. 12-pt is going to have more stress risers than the 6-pt.
I wrote an entire paragraph to say what you just did. Should've read all the comments first.
Would it matter how many there are, when the ultimate strength is determined by the weakest point? They aren't all going to fail at once, just the weak point. I guess having more of them increases the odds that one of them would be imperfect, and thus weaker than expected, but I would think that would just come down to the quality of the original steel.
@@WarrenGarabrandt It wouldn't make a big difference. What really matters is the shape of the wrench. If the bolt head was in an egg shape or a slightly deform circle, you wouldn't need much torque to break the wrench. So essentially, with a 12 point wrench, there is more force trying to expend the wrench and less trying to turn the bolt.
Can you test the open ends of those wrenches now
I can answer that for ya; no man is big or strong enough to break a wrench with his own hands. Only will it break when you apply additional leverage or force beyond what a human is capable of. A snipe bar, a hammer, heat, etc.
@Sizukun you can bend the open end by hand ask me how i know. Box end you are correct
Yeah, I once thought the same thing I thought the same thing when I came up with the brilliant idea once used a 3/4" with a 8' long cheater pipe. The memory of the sound "ting", the lump on the back of me noggin, and waking up dazed and confused on the shop floor told me otherwise.
@@Sizukun1 You are full of shit. I bought some HF flare nut wrenches and I managed to break one with just my bare hands. Where it broke it was very granulated looking metal.
I stumbled upon your absolutely hysterical banter in the past and apparently didn't subscribe. This time, I hit that bell notification because you sir are a fuckin riot.... Keep it up
that his wife and her boyfriend joke got me haha!
Wouldn't the six point work better on a partially stripped nut?
Rounding edges on bolts is always the fail point, very real advantage for the 6 point there. I only use 6 point, especially on my socket wrenches where positioning no longer favors 12 points.
Exactly!
The 6 point is great for rusted nuts or nuts someone else tried to take off with an adjustable.
I watched this with a face shield and squints on.
Much like when I watched my other favorite northern cousin you tuber test how strong motorcycle helmet latches are. Thank you AvE and fortnine.
Both wrenches preformed well considering the torque applied. Proto makes some great tools. Their tools don’t have the same feels good in the hand effect that snap on has. But they are every bit as durable and about half the price on most items.
I'd love to see a crude homemade 6 point and 12 point wrenches cut from the same chunk of steel and see how they compare
Hell yea! Same material! Same everything untreated and also heat treated that would be great! Just to able to the difference in it all.
It would give uncle bumble fawk a chance to make double ender jokes!
6 point for win
From my (albeit minimal) experience, the 12-point is generally easier to use because of the extra positions in which it can grab. However, because it's not fully supporting the fastener it has a tendency to round them off. In those applications, the 6-point may be superior. My dad did HVAC work and they would use a "Secure-grip open-end wrench" to keep from rounding off the soft fittings. It's basically that same 6-point box-end wrench with one of the sides cut out.
The “extra grip” is negligible 99% of the time. The advantage of a 12 is immense as you indeed have double the amount of positions to engage the fastener. If you are using a good quality wrench with good tolerances it won’t round it off.
I often use Hazet wrenches, a full set of these costs a kidney and a liver. But you can beat them with a hammer and use em everyday and they will hold up. The set I use right now everyday as a heavy equipment/ industrial mechanic has a “Made in W.-Germany” stamp on them. They have seen a lot of use but still fit perfectly with no slop.
This “secure-grip” open end wrench you refer to is often used by us when working on hydraulics. Very practical indeed!
That's called a "flare nut wrench", for anyone interested. Any auto mechanic who isn't a sadist, will have a set of SAE and Metric, for brake and fuel line/hose work.
Nothing worse than, say, having to replace a brake caliper, but you fuck the hose's nut up and now in addition to replacing the carpet, you're also replacing the brake hose... nevermind that the job won't be done in the initially quoted time frame because you have to wait for the parts store to deliver the new line (assuming they have one lol).
But yea, same scenario for HVAC.
Rounding pipe flare nuts is one of those classic _"... Ffffffffffffffffffuck 😔"_ moments, no matter the job, be it professional or personal! 🤣
Very similar to brake line wrenches my dad has from his mechanic days. They cut a small notch so it can go around the line, and a solid six point to avoid rounding anything.
Granted, I'm not sure those are meant for maximum torque ever, but every extra bit of thread helps for a hydraulic connection.
Looking forward to good ol, tool videos!
I fucking love this channel
I even got MY mom on speed dial for this one!
I’d really like to see this for ratcheting box ends, I feel like some of them may not be as strong as you’d want
I imagine the internals give out and convert it into a fidget spinner before the outside fails.
@@Vikingwerk yes. My 1" that I've had for close to 20 years had the ratchet mechanism crater. Using said wrench as a percussive device may have been a contributing factor.
@@abpsd73 lolol ok
What about the other end, seems to be a lot more girth there
Very interesting results, not at all what I expected betwixt the two, aside from the inherent higher quality of the Proto.
Would you have consider doing a video on the setup you use for this type of testing? It sketchy as frig and I want to build one for myself.
Thanks for edumacation!
I was leaning back from the screen to get ready for those wrenches to come flying out like a tank ripping rail gun shot.
Your quote at 2 minutes is pretty amazing and something I wish more people would take heed of. It’s important to not exist in an echo chamber and keep an open mind to new ideas and evidence that will help you come to different and possibly uncomfortable solutions. But vilifying people that don’t agree with you and resorting to name calling won’t help further anyones point on either side.
I still like you and that peg legged northern hillbilly even if I don’t agree with you 100% of the time. That’s what makes community great.
@Karl with a K lol
“Better steel more stronger, who would’ve thunk” 😂
Good work on the Buffalo Bill reference & when the gauge shot up towards 10k psi I even slightly turned away from my screen.
Great to hear you calling out Herr Schwab. I get the feeling there is a fight coming and I'm glad to stand on the side of men like yourself.
I just about busted a gut with “it swabs the makeup on” !! Thanks for the belly laugh!!!
Love to listen to you pitter patter in the garage while I'm in my garage tinkering
Thanks for this followup! While not Apples to Apples in the strictest sense (diff brands), I'm still quite content with the outcome!
A few takeaways and unknowns I observed -- but by no means feel it detracts from the test:
- Did the 16pnt round the nut _first_ and the self-generated vibration of it slipping then caused it to snap *OR* did it snap and then the "wider" interface cause the rounding? 🤔 Not sure we'd be able to know without redoing it with a highspeed camera in play, to capture what went down
- How much pressure did the first test actually manage to apply to the 6pnt before it bottomed out... Maybe the first test brought it just to its yield, and that second at 4K pissies made it throw in the towel? 🤔
- Unfortunately, I believe we won't really be able to know the *actual* breaking torque on account of the wrench flex absorbing some of that force, right? In a follow up test, not to say there will be one, I think one might need to cut off the box end, leaving a small stub that's just long enough for it to rest on the vice jaws with the destruct-o-matic clamped in said vice. Then it won't have anything that can flex and skew data. Would just need to make sure it was cut cold (CNC or that bandsaw, but either way, using the android blood), to preserve its factory hardening.
I think you should've had the John Deere bucket in there, _just_ the bucket, facing away from the toolbench, that you could climb into while running up the pressure!! 🤣
You sir! Are a madman!
Well done, mon ami.
Not sure if I'm ingesting too much or just the right amount of this content. During the dead silence betwixt the porta-power strokes, I catch myself wincing and saying aloud "Holy-O-Fu¢√" just in time to hear the same utterance echoed from behind the camera out from under what I can only imagine is a wad of tarp and moving blankets haphazardly hoisted in front of a man's face and squishy bits like some sort of third world ballistic vest.
This is the type of content I internet for. Thank you Sir.
It was comforting for me to know that the wrenches are stronger than I am. Unlikely to bruise a knuckle on the big wrenches.
Love the Honkening and Klaus references! BASED.
Aunt Trudy adds a whole new meaning to Home Despot, just sayin'...
The notch between the contacting points on the 12-point might allow more bending, and more tensile load in the roots at the contact points.
Been waiting so long to see the torquestructomatic again.
oi i keep forgettin how much fun and how interestin yer videos are!
I have some OG craftsman wrenches that predate my heartbeats and I would put to bear against any load John Henry wants to hammer down.
I now listen to these videos to fall asleep. I know I'm going crazy because they are starting to make sense
I just don't get it, here is a man who soulfully loves and has a full compliment of quality tools, defaults to adjustable wrenches.
Don't think I am being a little fussy about your videos, because they (and you ) are great!
The thickness of the box end also helps if'n ya need to get it into tight spaces, too.
You only need thick box ends for the Destructomatic Olympics.
Thank you for your service. Why not start with a straight comparison between the same brand of 6 pt and 12 pt? Seems hard to draw any conclusions due to so many variables?
"Honey... why are there wrenches embedded in the ceiling of the shop?"
I learned something new today. Now off to bed. Job done!
I think the difference in leverage due to the shape of the wrench has to make a difference in the results.
Let's say the bolt head and the wrench were in an egg shape (oval), the slight amont of torque would deform the wrench and the metal would be under insane tension.
The Hydraulic Press channel has competition... The Pneumatic Torque-o-matic Channel.
Thrustin Turdo. This guy is gold.
You should get some kamasa tools wreches for the next test. I would love to see those tested!
Like where you're going with this. Great video.
I’m thinking there is also different forces at play due to the geometry of the wrenches. Specifically the area when the angle of the contact area. The load is distributed more evenly in the Proto. Not getting into specifics as my thumbs lack typing endurance. Just saying it’s something major to factor in. In addition to manufacturing and metallurgy as you already mentioned.
Super excited to see you creatively destroy more tools.
Nice 9005B in the background. Still running 3 on my truck with the newest converted to use the old guard clamp style.
Heres my 2 cents. As a nostalgia based fan of vintagish craftsman tools, what i have noticed with the wrenches anyway, is that the broach can be misaligned, so you would you can have wall thickness variation from one side to the other.
I've never achieved 800 ft lbs with just a wrench, but I have squeezed out 10,000psi trying to.
You killed me with that into. Your dad jokes are where I want to be one day.
YES! Who needs "Whale Wars" when we can have "WRENCH WARS"!!!
or does the 12pt break between the points on the bolt? essentially stretched due to the direction of force from the competing faces? while the thinnest part is thicker it is still thinner than the thicker flat section of the 6pt
You can't have a darker substrate, the sub dictates the underneath, sir bumblefcuk.
Having said that, love you long time.
You're right about this, too.
Merry weekend and happy new week.
OMG! YOU KILL ME MAN! HAHAHAHA. it schwabs the makeup on! Shittin myself laughing bro..!
I profited by watching this one. Played it through, and shit a diamond. Good times.
Looks like someone is taking a trip to Lowe's to exchange a Craftsman Wrench! =P
I'd like to see some tests done on adjustable wrenches, if you get the time between defrosting your nuts.
After the measurements part showing the proto was actually thinner, I was thinking "would be cool if he got a bunch of different brands and tested those" which of course was immediately followed up by AvE "which means we can get all kinds of different wrenches and do experiments on those!". AvE always coming through
Sort of like Project Farm.
The science sarcasm was the greatest joke of the century!
I absolutely LOVE the bashing on Trudumb
Great news! They are both owned/manufactured by the same parent company now. You're welcome!