The purpose of the double-loop wrenches is triple wrenching and if you combine them with double-open ended wrenches the sky is the limit. Because sometimes the breaker bar is at the other end of the garage.
In my experience slipping off of , or rounding off a head happens pretty rarely on a large, high grade bolt that is still in good shape. But given the slightest bit of opportunity a 12 point wrench will take a crusty, rusty, already been diddled with automotive fastener into vise-grip territory with the quickness.
As someone who lives in the rust belt, 6point has absolutely made a big difference. If I have to choose between a 6 point socket and a 12 point socket, I will always ALWAYS go with the 6 point.
As someone who lives in SCOTLAND, 6point has absolutely made a big difference. If I have to choose between a 6 point socket and a 12 point socket, I will always ALWAYS go with the 6 point. This test is great if you work with nice new fasteners. Over here, in the real rusty world, where fasteners look like rusty knobs removed from the wreck of the Titanic on the ocean floor, you'd have different results!
@@inajiffy5435 absolutely. Any time, even when working on brand new stuff, I always use 6 point. Why not? I believe that 12 point sockets are obsolete, they were made for lower tooth count ratchets. Now I have 120 position and 90 tooth ratchets. I don’t need the 12 points.
I refuse to buy 12 point sockets. They're an answer to a question no one asked. On the wrenches, notice that the open end is cocked at an angle, you get the same 30 degrees of rotation buy flipping the wrench over.
Ain't not joke that double wrenching creates summer teeth. I have a metal plate in my cheek, jaw and a fancy set of front chompers from double wrenching! Feeling like cousin Eddie, luckily not pissing my pants when I fire up the microwave!
Still need wrenches with all those attachments bud? For serious, I'm glad you didn't nock yourself out for the last time, and that you have some humor about it. Forever changed my cheek and nose with just the one wrench, those self inflicted ones hurt in a different way. Thanks for sharing.
I've definitely made use of 6 point wrenches/sockets many times in my life where the 12 pointers were letting me down. It's not the wrench/socket that fails, it's the points of the fastener head that give way, and thusly where the 6 point shines. When you're pounding away at a rounded and re-rounded nut head with your 6 point socket and hand sledge, you'll already know damn well why you want that 6 pointer.
In automotive work where the head is already kind of chewed up, and maybe a bit undersized from some of the head having rusted away, but not enough to go down to the next smaller wrench.
Sometimes you'll encounter that the bolt head will have a slight taper as well, and of course is in a spot where you can't get a wrench fully engaged so you're hitting it at an angle, the 6 point will manage to do it and the 12 will assist you in interfacing your knuckles to surrounding components of the machine.
Yea, reminds me of a Mazda belt tensioner I ran into, twelve point just wanted to chew the the bolt, and the six point didn’t give it room to round. Gotta love the idea that not heat treating a bolt is a great way to save a couple coppers.
"By strengthening one component, you just find the next weakest component." Very simple yet extremely accurate description of why I'm so apprehensive about pulling the trigger on spinal fusion surgery.
@@theawesomeguy9999 He has a STALIF M-Ti fusion implant from Centinel Spine that anyone can get. There are surgeons all across the country that can perform spinal fusion. Most surgeons use a specific brand that they get used to but there are other options. Tiger had multiple surgeries to try to remove some disc that was pushing on nerves previously but finally got the fusion. People can also get full disc replacement where the disc is replaced with a ball and socket type joint that allows for motion.
Got a glass of whiskey to watch something risky. Was waiting for that wrench to eff off into low orbit and take down a Starlink satellite when it was resting on the portapower.
Lol got a striking suspicion that starlink will take itself out before it is all over with unless Elon Musk is banking on the zombie apocalypse to happen first? Lol
@@codemiesterbeats in a real answer, the entire Starlink thing is banking on space travel becoming an entirely different ballgame with the increase of launch payloads and qty. Space race 2.0 for sure!
So happy to see an old school AVE video again!! Nothing against what you are doing now, but these (and the tool tear downs) were what I subscribed for way back ago.
When my knuckles were what was on the line, I preferred a 6 point every time, because when you're dealing with head sizes in the 3/8" 10mm up to around 5/8" 16mm range, I've rounded off plenty of fasteners with a 12 point box end wrench!
Because I started working in the early 70's, I'd see a fair amount of 20-30 year old cars; i.e., Ramblers, Willys, Studebaker, Packard and late stuff as well. The 6 point wrench was my savor on those rear old cars whose bolts or nuts that were seized up or whose heads were chewed up. Thank heavens for 6 point wrenches! These days you don't see many 30 year old cars running around any more...but it was fairly common in the early 70's. .
Nowadays, it's not that the 30-40 year old cars aren't around or stop working, it's just that money is cheap and credit plentiful, so no one drives them.
I worked in a block plant where the 15/16" wrench was mandatory gear for the men, women and children. We had both the 12pt and the 6pt. The Sixers were better for backing up a impact gun.
As the hex size decreases 6 vs 12 becomes more important, 10mm and below I prefer 6 point especially on grease fittings and brake bleeders. 6 point is even more critical when you're dealing with rust and those in between sizes.
The problem with this test is your using new perfect bolts. You need bolts that have been ran though a few times by a lube tech. Ive had many bolts that slipped with the 12p but could be removed with the 6 point. I would even dare say the 12pt stripped the bolt head even more.
I agree. Have had to resort to 6 points many times working on my 99 4Runner. Worst on small bolts that have seized or slightly rusty. Body panel bolts are the worst. Not as much of an issue on larger bolts.
I had same exact thought I alwys use 6 point on automotive tasks for this reason 12 point will wound a 10mm head in a heartbeat 6 point you at least have a chance of getting it, although still not guaranteed to removed even with 6 point.
When I'm hanging by one arm off the side of some industrial machine, I love that I have a 12 point wrench in my free hand so I can get it on the fastener the most expedient way possible. I seldom come up against torque limits - just limits of time and accessibility.
@@namAehT And when it has square head bolts/nuts, you can guarantee it was built when Noah was but a twinkle in his old man's eye. Somewhere I've even got an old set of 1/2" drive square/4 point sockets. Try to find one of those these days!
I found myself implementing my safety squints, and hydraulic-proof gloves, multiple times while watching this lesson on high pressure oil circuits and couplers.
My lot in life seems to be to deal with rusted, worn out equipment, over and over again. Invariably I have to try a couple wrenches for proper fit, which cranks the corners of both the fastener and the wrench. Therefore my go-to wrenches & sockets are my 6 pt. I have 12pt when I need them for position or small arc. With a 72 tooth ratchet, the need for 12 pt sockets is small, though I have them somewhere. Someday I'll encounter 12pt fasteners but it hasn't happened yet.
Love that the two top comments (as of ~1300 EST Feb 18 2022) from @SueBobChicVid and @Tree Carcass Mangler both bring real world perspectives on opposite sides of the debate. Right tool for the right application, every time.
I find that I use 12 point wrenches and six point sockets. If the wrench won't move the faster easily or has a damages head I move on to the six point sockets.
I have one 6 point wrench. Picked up a snap on 10mm 6 point at a junk/antiques store. Poured some wrench bins on the floor and sat there for an hour looking for treasures. Best 8$ I ever spent.
I was just working on this! And vs spline. The 'ol upload button is just slower than uncle bumble f*ck's. Good Sh*T! I think what most people worry about on 6 v 12 point is on soft, rusted or rounded bolts and nuts which one will slip the least. Surely as you've shown they are inherently both strong enough to yield a bolt.
@@arduinoversusevil2025 Agreed. Might try some smaller hex hardware (but large enough thread size to not yield) in order to encourage more slippy slip. I think spline drive is stupid, but being wrong about these things seems to be a trademark of mine. It's worth banging some wrenches around to find out.
My dear Northern neighbor,I respect your advice and knowledge more than my words can express. I'm not usually one of the commentator types. Fair test, I'll give you that. Growing up on a dairy farm in Wisconsin that straightened nails to be reused, we usually hunted down the elusive 15/16" - 6 point wrench or socket after a fastener had been run through the always handy adjustable wrench, channel locks and rusted vise-grips out of the water filled tractor "tool tray". Without extreme measures of ruining a well worn out fastener, the 6 point usually got the job done... Leaving the rounded edge fastener to continue it's task till the next go around. True stories of the field... Literally. Keep up the great videos. As usual, it would work better if that finger wasn't missing
only time i use my 6 point wrenches is on brake bleeder screws . It lets me shear them off flush without rounding them off first and then having to use my vise grips to finish destroying them. Saves me time!!!
@@codemiesterbeats They get six months at least, sometimes a couple years between uses. Means the maker can get away with it without having a loss of customers, because nobody remembers which brand had better metal on the bleeder. Eventually everyone went for the cheap, because nobody was buying the better
Had myself an astounding teacher back here in South Yorkshire, EnglandLand. The man inspired me to do what I want. A Science teacher. 6'8" tall, skinny, old and crazy. . . . . . He once caught me designing a steam engine in my book after a test . . . . He then proceeded to sit at the side of me for the rest of the lesson and help me design the valve gear rather than give me a bollocking. Skookum man. Huge respect.
6 point wrenches are weird. One of those things you never need until it's the only thing that'll work. That's a shop tool. Only to be notched into a flare nut wrench by someone else.
I've got a machine that needs a 12 point flare nut wrench because there isn't enough swing for a 6 point. It's a 1" hydraulic line. We tightened it by cutting a 120⁰ angle in the end of a flatbar, and then striking the sides of the fitting. It turns so the point of the hex aligns with the bar. Very crude, but functional.
Never in my life have I ever engaged so many safety squints at my computer monitor in one short stint of 18 minutes and 57 seconds. PS: Love the mining references, you're a hit here in Sudbury with me and all my summer teeth mining chums!
Hi Mr. Uncle BumbleFork in the Frozen Hoth of Canaderp, I have been watching your channel for quite a while now and always get a kick out of literally everything you post. I had a chance to show one of your videos ages ago to a family friend who was helping me with my car project who unfortunately past away a little over two years ago. He helped me assemble a Honda engine, doing all the right things when it comes to engine assembly, measurement, conversation, tips and tricks and don't do's. He was a family expert who had assembled more than ~1000 engines in his life.. Was one of those people who was shocked when I told him, teach me and don't do it for me. Most of the folks that came to him didn't want anything to do with the "hands on/learning anything" they just wanted it done for them. Kind of a shame these days.. He knew it all! There were very few questions I could stump him with when it came to mechanical / electronical or anything relating to building/making cool $hit. I asked him a question one time and got the funniest of answers that made me think about how you explain things.. I said "Warren! How tight can you tighten a bolt? his answer was "Well that's easy Aaron, half a turn before it breaks" Like the most hilarious of responses that will always make me crack up. As funny as that is, it's pretty funny considering you did a video about bolts yielding. Perhaps a video idea to do sometime regarding ARP H22A "Honda Engine" head studs and L19 head studs? When he last came over I was able to show him the electronics I had in my car and what they do and thought was pretty amazing! I felt pretty awesome getting that kind of a reaction out of a person like that. I posted a video a little while back to show some of my FB friends. Take care! Keep makin cool $hit with the handsie's and causing me crack up with opening boxes with small chainsaws complaining of packaging damage.
12 points along with torx are made with the thought in mind that all fasteners are of the same good quality and can withstand a modest amount of elbow grease before rounding themselves off vs becoming rounded off when you put the tool on them because some guy used a cheap replacement bolt or it’s rusty as frick.
Good points. Real world example is how many current GM productions heavily feature 8mm bolts, next to some really small 7s, and choke T15s, all out in the elements. They really don't want you parting it out, and they really don't care if it's a few tons of waste in fewer years.
In defense of torx, when being used to replace phillips it’s vastly superior (like in all the deck screws nowadays). Yeah torx can round off and I probably prefer a socketed hex (or regular ol hex for that matter) but it damn sure beats Phillips head all day everyday and twice on Sunday.
Thank you Mr Sergu from Trinidad who was my grade 4 school teacher. I learned more in Grade 4 then any other grade before or after. Teach a student how to learn, not what to learn.
I only use 6 points on exhaust bolts/nuts cause they are less likely to strip it out. It's also probably more noticeable on smaller nuts and bolts with less area on the head.
Overall strength is pretty close, I’m sure. But on a bolt with some age on her, pre-rounded, the 12 point slips way before the 6 point, and both fail long before a flank drive.
I would argue that the 12-point is far less strong, due to its thinner wall vs. 6-point. I do agree with you though regarding 12-point slipping on rounded bolts before 6-point.
@@TroyStevensStelzerPaintingInc given the same outer diameter and the same size wrench, the thinnest dimension will be the same on both wrenches, where the points are. The 12 point just has twice as many. If they break, they’ll break at that thin point.
A story on finding the weak component. I was looking for new manual hubs for my little ranger pickup. Warns were the standard fare. I wanted better ones. Came across a forum thread where someone else wanted stronger locking hubs that didn't break. They had a few sets made. The hubs didn't break but everything else between the drive line and hub failed on everything eventually. Inner shafts, u joints, pinions, etc. Everything you don't want to break on the trail broke. If a hub broke you took the wheel off and swapped the hub unit. The unbreakable hubs were shelved by all using them and they went back to Warns.
Good video, but try it again using a rusty partially rounded off faster! That’s why 6 points still do and always will have a place in my toolbox in both spanner and socket form.
Mechanical engineer here. From a mechanical stress perspective, the stress in the wrench is highest at the vertex of the bolt head hex. It decreases logarithmically down to the point of no-contact with the wrench. This is a problem because it means the force distribution depends on the tolerance of the fit between the bolt and wrench. For a typical wrench and bolt combo, 90% of the stress occurs within 5-8% of the side of the bolt head. So for a half inch bolt, that's less than 20 thousandths (less than 0.5 mm). So I can't imagine there's any practical difference between hex and triple square, assuming that the dimensions are the same, and assuming the bolt does not yield. This might be a big one. If the bolt rounds over, you might lose significant engagement with the triple square. I think the lesson here is to trust the people that design the standards for bolt and wrench dimensions.
@@jongrimm7767 Yes, exactly. I may have misunderstood what this video was about. A hex and a twelve point wrench have identical contact patterns on a hex bolt. There's no difference in performance by definition. So I guess I assumed nobody would be stupid enough to claim otherwise. I thought this video was about how the higher contact angle of triple squares is better. But I now realize that's probably not true. But now I'm not sure why anybody thinks 6 vs 12 point wrenches are different.
@@gizmoguyar the problem with you engineers is that you never consider how your stuff is going to perform after 10 20 years of rusting and abuse, where 6pt vs 12pt (double hex) absolutely makes a difference
@@vxiiduu1629 Actually, the most important part of our job is to consider longevity. It's easy to complain when you have no clue how many decades of research, testing, math, material science, and real world use goes into designing something as simple as a bolt. There are hundreds of factors that engineers have to consider that you probably haven't even heard of. Our expert opinion based on many years of education from those that have done this work before us, as well as decades of experience working in the industry is what allows you to even have a car (or whatever) in the first place. Without the quantified approach to design that is the entirety of engineering, you'd still be riding horses.
I just started learning material property performance in my education, so much of what I've watched from you makes sense now. Thank you for the extra edge in my education!
I too worked in a gold mine ..I am chuckling and belly laughing at the most irreverent you tuber .. I find your information nuggets very worthwhile and at the same time great entertainment. Keep it up. Thanks.
The best teachers I ever had were the ones that loved to teach, not the ones that complained everyday because they only wanted a check. It didn't matter if they showed us factoids or asked questions as long as they wanted us to know more. Often times, the facts were the building blocks to think more.
2 thoughts: 1 - The head of the bolt is a lot stronger than the threads. But when bangin' on a wrench trying to loose a stuck bolt, I've shattered a box end. And just like your royal blue cylinder there, I buy myself only the best. All that rust and galvanic corrosion provides some extra strength. For this test to be true, you gotta weld the fastener head to a plate and then keep going with the stress test until you've rounded the head. Then we'll really know if the wrench is stronger than the fastener. 2 - Both of these wrenches are under-engineered. For shame. You think manufacturers are made of money? The material on them is clearly way too thick in the sense of a racecar that makes it 10 feet past the finish line without the engine exploding left too much on the table and should've been pushed harder. One would suspect that a 6-point wrench could be thinner/lighter/slimmer/whatever than the gourmet 12 star avocado wrench all the millenials are bangin' off their nuts these days.
@@arduinoversusevil2025 Well don't do it on my accord, I think the conclusion is clear, good wrenches are made better than the fasteners they fasten. This determines how thick and strong to make the wrench in the first place, else 10mm wrenches would be just as beefy as 1" ones. Though, I've absolutely shattered power fist "drop forged" (cast) wrenches far, far, far, far before a rusty bolt decided to turn.
Everytime I watch one of your videos I not only learn something I didn't know but I learn new ways to confuse the crap out of my kids by quoting you. It's funny only to me and that's all that matters.
Many moons ago I was a 21 year old kid crushing class 5 in the Bakken oil fields. I remember fondly pounding wedges back in on the screen deck. At the end of a 16 hour day on an old libman roll/cone crusher.
That's why you need the set of 8 point sockets. Kind of hard to find, Williams has 'em (at less than Snap-On prices, and US made). I found an old Proto set (in great condition) of 8 point, 1/2 drive sockets a retired mechanic was selling.
It’s been awhile since we had a solid torture test And I’m glad this one came up as I’m looking to buy a solid set of wrenches these videos helped when I purchased my set of ratchet wrenches
On a brand new hardened bolt. Yeah, maybe they work the same. Try getting off old rusty grade 5 or lower bolts and you'll round way more heads off with a 12 point. At least in my experience. Of course they're as like to just break as anything else, obviating the utility of either wrench but that's a topic for another day
For big fasteners yes. But when you're talking about 1/4" heads of bolts or nuts the 12 point does slip, especially when the hardware is corroded.. I know from personal experience. But bigger head size hardware I agree 100% no difference at all.
As many before me suggested, a smaller head would be interesting. Also a lot of people came up with rusted heads. And this was also my first thing, I thought about. The problem I see is: How do you rust away multiple bolts the same way. So what does rust do: -It shrinks the Head. (Okay, first it gets bigger, but if you clean the bolt, the remaining steel is smaller) If you mix up Metric wrenches with Freedom units bolts, you could get a situation where the head is smaller than intended for the wrench. -It rounds off the edges. So the edges of the Head could be turned down a little bit with a lathe. And this every time by nearly the same amount. -One additional thing is the Surface roughness. You could try sandblasting it, but this makes every time a huge mess and the result isn't as consistent. So I would ignore the surface finish for now. Maybe this is the too complicated view from a German (soon) mechanical engineer. Love videos like this, keep it up.
For years I loved the 12 point for the very reasons you give... however with some poorly made inferior "automotive" grade bolts I have found that with the 12 point there is a better chance of rounding off and destroying the bolt head "prematurely" the 6 pointer... not so much.... so now I'm wondering if I was using my metric 12 pointers... on a standard bolt head... "prematurely"... Thanks for a exciting and stressful video... just love it when heirloom wrench gets preloaded... whoooo!
Now get yourself some soft sloppy fitting stamped chinesium bolts, (especially smaller sizes), possibly chewed on by every passing drunk with an adjustable or overly-chamfered no name wrench; or maybe let 'em rust down a couple of layers. This is where the 6 vs 12 comes in, hell just recently after removing some very rusty and well abraded(rubbin on dirt or hay) fasteners on 70 year old farm equipment, I'm a new believer in 4 point. (despite it forcing the design engineer to put half a thought into wrench swing. )
Correct! Working at a GM dealership i pick 6 points when i know i am dealing with a soft aluminum bolt or similar. The 10mm drain plugs can be destroyed ny spanner and apprentice without too much effort however the 300lb gorilla can reef on the 6 point with no issues!
My Indiana FJ Cruiser tends to have those fancy bolts that align more with the shape and design of a pop rivet. Waiting on gas tank straps from Japan at this moment as the tank thought it was a sled last week. Motor and tranny still great though!
@@Dr_Skot My 100 series is at 210k and very reliable, but if I do have to work on it I know I’m gonna need some vice grips, good drills and a set of taps. I order replacement hardware for every job I do. Just did a trans flush and broke 3/20 pan bolts.
I'm still trying to find where my grandpa got chadwick 18 point socket set from. They are at least 70 years old, fraction not mm, almost 5/16, and shorter than craftsman sockets. ¹/4 drive and 3/8 does not fit. I still use them today but you can't force them. Unless they were from great grandpa and was made by someone where he worked.
My experience. 12 points slip too often on the bolts. Especially old rusted bolts and really cheaply made bolts. 6 points stay nice and firm on the bolt. A lot less chance of slipping and rounding bolt off. I only use 6 point wrenches and sockets now. I refuse to use anything else
I completely agree. large, quality bolts like these work awesome with 12 points. or small 12 point bolts like ARP. 12 points suck for rusted or cheese grade bolts.
I love these vids! This and the BOLTRs. Doesn't matter if you are breaking something on purpose or tearing it apart to see how it works. I just enjoy hanging our listening to Uncle BF ramble!
I am sure with a smaller bolt the bolt would fail even easier. With a larger fastener I think there's a chance for a different result. Wrenches do get smaller depending on size but I think they are made proportionate to the size of the bolt.
I love AvE and these kinds of tests, but automotive work is definitely an exception to this conclusion. You get a lot of rounded #8 and #10 bolts due to 12 point sockets. So much so that in our shop we trained heavily to use a 6 point socket or wrench on a 6 point bolt/nut. It cut our damaged fastener lost time in half. I'm sure this conclusion is correct for large diameter fasteners, but for small and worn fasteners, that just isn't the case.
Loved the video, but this is one of those situations in which the test you're testing is not testing what you think your test is testing. As others have mentioned loosening a bolt with a corroded head is a lot different from tightening a brand new bolt.
@@jarrodholden533 They were bought by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial Co., Ltd. along with other companies (such as Arrow Fastener, Goldblatt Masonry, Jorgensen clamps) and will no longer be producing anything in the USA. GreatStar is, as you might have guessed, a Chinese company. The press release, which was met with great surprise and upset, has since been removed from the SK website due to backlash but it's still available from the web archive.
The hundreds of rounded heads I've cut off with torches seems to indicate that somehow, the fastener isn't always the weakest point. Would be interesting to try exactly the same trial, but on bolts where the head has been exposed to artificially increased rust and wear. Like in a salted rock tumbler.
I hope he does a full shit test of them at some point. I haven't had any issues with Pittsburgh wrenches and sockets, but I'd sure like to know where they are lacking in comparison.
There is a purpose for 6- and 12-point sockets and box end wrenches. Tight turning radius means that a 12-point with its shorter arc before resetting on the bolt or nut has an advantage. The internal bevel on a 6-point socket can allow the socket to slip so I grind off the bevel so that the socket grips further down the nut or bolt.
Totally agreed with 1 exception. If the fastener is already partially rounded, 6 point can be much better.
Spline drive can also grab a partially rounded fastener much better than a regular 12
I was always taught, and came to my own conclusion that 12 points are more likely to round off fasteners.
The blue hot snot gun can also grab it.
@@joshualux8309 this one isn't true. The contact surface on a 12p is the same as a 6.
@@NurdRage777 someone has been watching diesel creek😀
The purpose of the double-loop wrenches is triple wrenching and if you combine them with double-open ended wrenches the sky is the limit. Because sometimes the breaker bar is at the other end of the garage.
lmfao i would love to see you work with hand tools
FAAAAACTS.
Yeah right...It's never THAT close by.
lol Your teeth and knuckles are going to end up at the other end of the garage.
lol Your teeth and knuckles are going to end up at the other end of the garage.
In my experience slipping off of , or rounding off a head happens pretty rarely on a large, high grade bolt that is still in good shape. But given the slightest bit of opportunity a 12 point wrench will take a crusty, rusty, already been diddled with automotive fastener into vise-grip territory with the quickness.
Forget vise grips. You want raptors.
@@jeangadoury932 forget raptors, you need a welder.
Lolz! Yup! Been there way too many times! 😀
Especially if your not dealing with steel bolts/nuts. Brass don’t even bother with a 12 point
I've had better luck with a small pipe wrench then vise grips, but every situation call's for a different attack.
As someone who lives in the rust belt, 6point has absolutely made a big difference. If I have to choose between a 6 point socket and a 12 point socket, I will always ALWAYS go with the 6 point.
Amen salty dog
As someone who lives in SCOTLAND, 6point has absolutely made a big difference. If I have to choose between a 6 point socket and a 12 point socket, I will always ALWAYS go with the 6 point.
This test is great if you work with nice new fasteners. Over here, in the real rusty world, where fasteners look like rusty knobs removed from the wreck of the Titanic on the ocean floor, you'd have different results!
@@inajiffy5435 absolutely. Any time, even when working on brand new stuff, I always use 6 point. Why not? I believe that 12 point sockets are obsolete, they were made for lower tooth count ratchets. Now I have 120 position and 90 tooth ratchets. I don’t need the 12 points.
Same and agree wholeheartedly.
I refuse to buy 12 point sockets. They're an answer to a question no one asked. On the wrenches, notice that the open end is cocked at an angle, you get the same 30 degrees of rotation buy flipping the wrench over.
Ain't not joke that double wrenching creates summer teeth. I have a metal plate in my cheek, jaw and a fancy set of front chompers from double wrenching! Feeling like cousin Eddie, luckily not pissing my pants when I fire up the microwave!
Still need wrenches with all those attachments bud?
For serious, I'm glad you didn't nock yourself out for the last time, and that you have some humor about it. Forever changed my cheek and nose with just the one wrench, those self inflicted ones hurt in a different way. Thanks for sharing.
@@Barren_Harem808 summer teeth with a gas axe,. if someone throws you one catch the axe, not the hose
The best option is the 9 point wrench, it's a good compromise between 6 and 12 points.
India has the best 9 point wrenches
I agree 9 point is best, if one of the points wears out you can grind off two more and you have a brand new 6 point.
Hey a 12pt socket fits a square, so...
@@ohnoitisnt so does a 6 point if you have a hammer and a will
That used to be my favorite, until I tried the 69 point....
I've definitely made use of 6 point wrenches/sockets many times in my life where the 12 pointers were letting me down. It's not the wrench/socket that fails, it's the points of the fastener head that give way, and thusly where the 6 point shines. When you're pounding away at a rounded and re-rounded nut head with your 6 point socket and hand sledge, you'll already know damn well why you want that 6 pointer.
In automotive work where the head is already kind of chewed up, and maybe a bit undersized from some of the head having rusted away, but not enough to go down to the next smaller wrench.
nothing better then pounding on a 6 point with the hammer and just get the bolt out lol
Sometimes you'll encounter that the bolt head will have a slight taper as well, and of course is in a spot where you can't get a wrench fully engaged so you're hitting it at an angle, the 6 point will manage to do it and the 12 will assist you in interfacing your knuckles to surrounding components of the machine.
Yea, reminds me of a Mazda belt tensioner I ran into, twelve point just wanted to chew the the bolt, and the six point didn’t give it room to round. Gotta love the idea that not heat treating a bolt is a great way to save a couple coppers.
"By strengthening one component, you just find the next weakest component."
Very simple yet extremely accurate description of why I'm so apprehensive about pulling the trigger on spinal fusion surgery.
Worked out for okay Tiger Woods...
@@KevinReinartz To be fair he's a rich athlete, his access to high end medical care is much greater than any normal person
Stem cells right into the disk if you can find a legitimate place to do it
@@theawesomeguy9999 He has a STALIF M-Ti fusion implant from Centinel Spine that anyone can get. There are surgeons all across the country that can perform spinal fusion. Most surgeons use a specific brand that they get used to but there are other options. Tiger had multiple surgeries to try to remove some disc that was pushing on nerves previously but finally got the fusion.
People can also get full disc replacement where the disc is replaced with a ball and socket type joint that allows for motion.
@@KevinReinartz now are you talkin before last week or this week? today or yesterday he wasnt feelin as good as eariler reports.
Was missing these tests, oldschool videos came back 👍👍
Me too
Yea, Both the bridgeport AND the torque-struct o matic
Got a glass of whiskey to watch something risky. Was waiting for that wrench to eff off into low orbit and take down a Starlink satellite when it was resting on the portapower.
Lol got a striking suspicion that starlink will take itself out before it is all over with unless Elon Musk is banking on the zombie apocalypse to happen first? Lol
@@codemiesterbeats Satellites destroyed: Geomagnetic Storm - 40, AvEs wrench - 0.... for now....
@@codemiesterbeats in a real answer, the entire Starlink thing is banking on space travel becoming an entirely different ballgame with the increase of launch payloads and qty. Space race 2.0 for sure!
So happy to see an old school AVE video again!! Nothing against what you are doing now, but these (and the tool tear downs) were what I subscribed for way back ago.
Exactly! .)))
I subbed for the potato milling
Agreed.
When my knuckles were what was on the line, I preferred a 6 point every time, because when you're dealing with head sizes in the 3/8" 10mm up to around 5/8" 16mm range, I've rounded off plenty of fasteners with a 12 point box end wrench!
Because I started working in the early 70's, I'd see a fair amount of 20-30 year old cars; i.e., Ramblers, Willys, Studebaker, Packard and late stuff as well. The 6 point wrench was my savor on those rear old cars whose bolts or nuts that were seized up or whose heads were chewed up. Thank heavens for 6 point wrenches!
These days you don't see many 30 year old cars running around any more...but it was fairly common in the early 70's.
.
Nowadays, it's not that the 30-40 year old cars aren't around or stop working, it's just that money is cheap and credit plentiful, so no one drives them.
My 89 Yoda pickup still gets me to work.
It's the FIFTY year old cars that hang around these days. The 30 year ones all fell apart lol
My 30 year old honda still kickin'
I worked in a block plant where the 15/16" wrench was mandatory gear for the men, women and children. We had both the 12pt and the 6pt.
The Sixers were better for backing up a impact gun.
I’m no expert but my Snap-on guy says I need 6 and 12 point SAE and Metric wrenches, chrome sockets and impact sockets
Trust the experts! Science. (pronounced: "silence")
The snap on guy seems to have ulterior motives...
He just enjoys your blood
You forgot short, deep well, thin wall, anodized and universals. Don't worry, the "rape van" driver will remind ya.
I keep impacts in 6 point and chrome in 12 point. It gives me a nice selection of thin walls or strength when I need it with little overlap.
As the hex size decreases 6 vs 12 becomes more important, 10mm and below I prefer 6 point especially on grease fittings and brake bleeders. 6 point is even more critical when you're dealing with rust and those in between sizes.
The problem with this test is your using new perfect bolts. You need bolts that have been ran though a few times by a lube tech. Ive had many bolts that slipped with the 12p but could be removed with the 6 point. I would even dare say the 12pt stripped the bolt head even more.
I agree. Have had to resort to 6 points many times working on my 99 4Runner. Worst on small bolts that have seized or slightly rusty. Body panel bolts are the worst. Not as much of an issue on larger bolts.
Would be nice to see the same test with a smaller bolt, like a 10mm, where rounding it is more likely. Spline drive would be interesting as well.
I had same exact thought I alwys use 6 point on automotive tasks for this reason 12 point will wound a 10mm head in a heartbeat 6 point you at least have a chance of getting it, although still not guaranteed to removed even with 6 point.
That's not possible. Please show me your proof a 10mm exists first.
What the hell is a 10mm?
When I'm hanging by one arm off the side of some industrial machine, I love that I have a 12 point wrench in my free hand so I can get it on the fastener the most expedient way possible. I seldom come up against torque limits - just limits of time and accessibility.
Not to mention the odd square nut/bolt on old equipment. There's a reason I keep a set of 12 point racket sockets in my tool drawer.
@@namAehT And when it has square head bolts/nuts, you can guarantee it was built when Noah was but a twinkle in his old man's eye.
Somewhere I've even got an old set of 1/2" drive square/4 point sockets. Try to find one of those these days!
Not sure what's better about Ave the fact you can laugh the entire video or the amazing stuff he shares, awesome video!
I found myself implementing my safety squints, and hydraulic-proof gloves, multiple times while watching this lesson on high pressure oil circuits and couplers.
Yep
right as i was leaning away from the screen he went and let off the pump....... pussy.
My lot in life seems to be to deal with rusted, worn out equipment, over and over again. Invariably I have to try a couple wrenches for proper fit, which cranks the corners of both the fastener and the wrench. Therefore my go-to wrenches & sockets are my 6 pt. I have 12pt when I need them for position or small arc.
With a 72 tooth ratchet, the need for 12 pt sockets is small, though I have them somewhere. Someday I'll encounter 12pt fasteners but it hasn't happened yet.
Love that the two top comments (as of ~1300 EST Feb 18 2022) from @SueBobChicVid and @Tree Carcass Mangler both bring real world perspectives on opposite sides of the debate. Right tool for the right application, every time.
Buy a BMW......
The 12 point spline head fasteners are like Torx's bigger brother.
I find that I use 12 point wrenches and six point sockets. If the wrench won't move the faster easily or has a damages head I move on to the six point sockets.
Encountered my first 12pt fastener recently changing the clutch on a Honda.
I have one 6 point wrench. Picked up a snap on 10mm 6 point at a junk/antiques store. Poured some wrench bins on the floor and sat there for an hour looking for treasures. Best 8$ I ever spent.
Lol, I love doing that ! A treasure
I was just working on this! And vs spline. The 'ol upload button is just slower than uncle bumble f*ck's. Good Sh*T! I think what most people worry about on 6 v 12 point is on soft, rusted or rounded bolts and nuts which one will slip the least. Surely as you've shown they are inherently both strong enough to yield a bolt.
two magic words for you: "experimental confirmation".
@@arduinoversusevil2025 Agreed. Might try some smaller hex hardware (but large enough thread size to not yield) in order to encourage more slippy slip. I think spline drive is stupid, but being wrong about these things seems to be a trademark of mine. It's worth banging some wrenches around to find out.
My dear Northern neighbor,I respect your advice and knowledge more than my words can express.
I'm not usually one of the commentator types. Fair test, I'll give you that. Growing up on a dairy farm in Wisconsin that straightened nails to be reused, we usually hunted down the elusive 15/16" - 6 point wrench or socket after a fastener had been run through the always handy adjustable wrench, channel locks and rusted vise-grips out of the water filled tractor "tool tray". Without extreme measures of ruining a well worn out fastener, the 6 point usually got the job done... Leaving the rounded edge fastener to continue it's task till the next go around.
True stories of the field... Literally. Keep up the great videos. As usual, it would work better if that finger wasn't missing
I miss the sound of the ol freq drive in the background.
17 kilohertz of tooth grinding hum!
AvE has mentioned it, seen comments about the drive noise. I don't hear anything. Is It my phone/TV or are my ears that far gone? At 35??!!
@@phillipg9345 Just means your tinnitus is at 17kHz
You mean this vid has sound. All I hear is ringing.
@@wjanis1 EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
12 points can be used on squares too. I couldn't find the tap handle yesterday so the 7 mm 12 point was just perfect for the 5/16-18 tap.
With portugee engineering like that you're either the best Tapper there ever is or your holes are wallowed out like a Houston lot lizard
This is the most use my 1/4" drive sockets get, driving taps when the tap handle is MIA
Always driving adjustable reamer with a 12-point 17mm wrench, works a treat.
On squares, the adjustable knuckle buster works FINE. or an O.E. of the right size.
Almost forgot about this. Lmao, used an impact wrench to tap 7/8" on chiller head with a 12 pt.
only time i use my 6 point wrenches is on brake bleeder screws . It lets me shear them off flush without rounding them off first and then having to use my vise grips to finish destroying them. Saves me time!!!
Lol I suppose there is some reason beyond my understanding why they use pot metal... I'm guessing a better seal or something.
@@codemiesterbeats
They get six months at least, sometimes a couple years between uses. Means the maker can get away with it without having a loss of customers, because nobody remembers which brand had better metal on the bleeder.
Eventually everyone went for the cheap, because nobody was buying the better
Had myself an astounding teacher back here in South Yorkshire, EnglandLand. The man inspired me to do what I want. A Science teacher. 6'8" tall, skinny, old and crazy. . . . . . He once caught me designing a steam engine in my book after a test . . . . He then proceeded to sit at the side of me for the rest of the lesson and help me design the valve gear rather than give me a bollocking. Skookum man. Huge respect.
The line about summer teeth cracked me up! :)
6 point wrenches are weird. One of those things you never need until it's the only thing that'll work. That's a shop tool. Only to be notched into a flare nut wrench by someone else.
A very sketchy flare nut wrench
I've got a machine that needs a 12 point flare nut wrench because there isn't enough swing for a 6 point.
It's a 1" hydraulic line. We tightened it by cutting a 120⁰ angle in the end of a flatbar, and then striking the sides of the fitting. It turns so the point of the hex aligns with the bar. Very crude, but functional.
Good to see you are back doing the type of videos that brought us all here time & again.
You are 100% right on new bolts. Most mechanics aren’t in shops with NEW bolts.
Machinist worldview versus mechanics worldview 🤔🤔🤔🤔
I'm sure that by watching this video it puts me on some list of Trudeau's most hated, so I'm going to watch it twice.
Never in my life have I ever engaged so many safety squints at my computer monitor in one short stint of 18 minutes and 57 seconds.
PS: Love the mining references, you're a hit here in Sudbury with me and all my summer teeth mining chums!
Agreed. This was terrifying to watch.
Hi Mr. Uncle BumbleFork in the Frozen Hoth of Canaderp,
I have been watching your channel for quite a while now and always get a kick out of literally everything you post. I had a chance to show one of your videos ages ago to a family friend who was helping me with my car project who unfortunately past away a little over two years ago. He helped me assemble a Honda engine, doing all the right things when it comes to engine assembly, measurement, conversation, tips and tricks and don't do's. He was a family expert who had assembled more than ~1000 engines in his life.. Was one of those people who was shocked when I told him, teach me and don't do it for me. Most of the folks that came to him didn't want anything to do with the "hands on/learning anything" they just wanted it done for them. Kind of a shame these days.. He knew it all! There were very few questions I could stump him with when it came to mechanical / electronical or anything relating to building/making cool $hit. I asked him a question one time and got the funniest of answers that made me think about how you explain things.. I said
"Warren! How tight can you tighten a bolt? his answer was "Well that's easy Aaron, half a turn before it breaks" Like the most hilarious of responses that will always make me crack up. As funny as that is, it's pretty funny considering you did a video about bolts yielding. Perhaps a video idea to do sometime regarding ARP H22A "Honda Engine" head studs and L19 head studs?
When he last came over I was able to show him the electronics I had in my car and what they do and thought was pretty amazing! I felt pretty awesome getting that kind of a reaction out of a person like that. I posted a video a little while back to show some of my FB friends.
Take care! Keep makin cool $hit with the handsie's and causing me crack up with opening boxes with small chainsaws complaining of packaging damage.
12 points along with torx are made with the thought in mind that all fasteners are of the same good quality and can withstand a modest amount of elbow grease before rounding themselves off vs becoming rounded off when you put the tool on them because some guy used a cheap replacement bolt or it’s rusty as frick.
Good points. Real world example is how many current GM productions heavily feature 8mm bolts, next to some really small 7s, and choke T15s, all out in the elements.
They really don't want you parting it out, and they really don't care if it's a few tons of waste in fewer years.
or the fcktard before used a sloppy cheapass wrench. and not the boxed side on top.
In defense of torx, when being used to replace phillips it’s vastly superior (like in all the deck screws nowadays).
Yeah torx can round off and I probably prefer a socketed hex (or regular ol hex for that matter) but it damn sure beats Phillips head all day everyday and twice on Sunday.
Am I the only one that stopped breathing when the tap got hung up?
*watches the wrench bend and the bolt stretch* Canadian Space program looks like its progressing smoothing even during the """Emergency"""
Thank you Mr Sergu from Trinidad who was my grade 4 school teacher. I learned more in Grade 4 then any other grade before or after. Teach a student how to learn, not what to learn.
I only use 6 points on exhaust bolts/nuts cause they are less likely to strip it out. It's also probably more noticeable on smaller nuts and bolts with less area on the head.
Eliminate the weaker link (threaded fastener) and take the wee bit of hex shafting and mill it down to fit the torque applicator (wrench) 😉
Overall strength is pretty close, I’m sure. But on a bolt with some age on her, pre-rounded, the 12 point slips way before the 6 point, and both fail long before a flank drive.
I would argue that the 12-point is far less strong, due to its thinner wall vs. 6-point. I do agree with you though regarding 12-point slipping on rounded bolts before 6-point.
@@TroyStevensStelzerPaintingInc given the same outer diameter and the same size wrench, the thinnest dimension will be the same on both wrenches, where the points are. The 12 point just has twice as many. If they break, they’ll break at that thin point.
Dude I love all your one liners and punch lines, reminds me of many mentors that have long sense past. Thanks for a trip do n memory lane.
A story on finding the weak component.
I was looking for new manual hubs for my little ranger pickup. Warns were the standard fare. I wanted better ones. Came across a forum thread where someone else wanted stronger locking hubs that didn't break. They had a few sets made. The hubs didn't break but everything else between the drive line and hub failed on everything eventually. Inner shafts, u joints, pinions, etc. Everything you don't want to break on the trail broke. If a hub broke you took the wheel off and swapped the hub unit. The unbreakable hubs were shelved by all using them and they went back to Warns.
Good video, but try it again using a rusty partially rounded off faster! That’s why 6 points still do and always will have a place in my toolbox in both spanner and socket form.
Mechanical engineer here. From a mechanical stress perspective, the stress in the wrench is highest at the vertex of the bolt head hex. It decreases logarithmically down to the point of no-contact with the wrench. This is a problem because it means the force distribution depends on the tolerance of the fit between the bolt and wrench. For a typical wrench and bolt combo, 90% of the stress occurs within 5-8% of the side of the bolt head. So for a half inch bolt, that's less than 20 thousandths (less than 0.5 mm). So I can't imagine there's any practical difference between hex and triple square, assuming that the dimensions are the same, and assuming the bolt does not yield. This might be a big one. If the bolt rounds over, you might lose significant engagement with the triple square. I think the lesson here is to trust the people that design the standards for bolt and wrench dimensions.
Unless I misunderstood, 12 point and triple square are two different animals
@@jongrimm7767 Yes, exactly. I may have misunderstood what this video was about. A hex and a twelve point wrench have identical contact patterns on a hex bolt. There's no difference in performance by definition. So I guess I assumed nobody would be stupid enough to claim otherwise. I thought this video was about how the higher contact angle of triple squares is better. But I now realize that's probably not true. But now I'm not sure why anybody thinks 6 vs 12 point wrenches are different.
@@gizmoguyar the problem with you engineers is that you never consider how your stuff is going to perform after 10 20 years of rusting and abuse, where 6pt vs 12pt (double hex) absolutely makes a difference
@@vxiiduu1629 Actually, the most important part of our job is to consider longevity. It's easy to complain when you have no clue how many decades of research, testing, math, material science, and real world use goes into designing something as simple as a bolt. There are hundreds of factors that engineers have to consider that you probably haven't even heard of. Our expert opinion based on many years of education from those that have done this work before us, as well as decades of experience working in the industry is what allows you to even have a car (or whatever) in the first place. Without the quantified approach to design that is the entirety of engineering, you'd still be riding horses.
I just started learning material property performance in my education, so much of what I've watched from you makes sense now. Thank you for the extra edge in my education!
I too worked in a gold mine ..I am chuckling and belly laughing at the most irreverent you tuber .. I find your information nuggets very worthwhile and at the same time great entertainment. Keep it up. Thanks.
Well let’s shake hands with danger. 🤣🇨🇦🇺🇸🇨🇦🇺🇸🇨🇦💚
The six pointers come into their own on small soft metal fittings like brake bleeders.
1st grade, Mrs. Bush bought me the Summer Weekly Reader for me. I looked forward to it every week, and have been an avid reader ever since. (60 years)
Thank you for your efforts to finally uploading this video, I remember I requested this a while ago. 👍
The best teachers I ever had were the ones that loved to teach, not the ones that complained everyday because they only wanted a check. It didn't matter if they showed us factoids or asked questions as long as they wanted us to know more. Often times, the facts were the building blocks to think more.
2 thoughts:
1 - The head of the bolt is a lot stronger than the threads. But when bangin' on a wrench trying to loose a stuck bolt, I've shattered a box end. And just like your royal blue cylinder there, I buy myself only the best. All that rust and galvanic corrosion provides some extra strength. For this test to be true, you gotta weld the fastener head to a plate and then keep going with the stress test until you've rounded the head. Then we'll really know if the wrench is stronger than the fastener.
2 - Both of these wrenches are under-engineered. For shame. You think manufacturers are made of money? The material on them is clearly way too thick in the sense of a racecar that makes it 10 feet past the finish line without the engine exploding left too much on the table and should've been pushed harder. One would suspect that a 6-point wrench could be thinner/lighter/slimmer/whatever than the gourmet 12 star avocado wrench all the millenials are bangin' off their nuts these days.
1- will do
2- I'll read between the lines and do rusty bolts too.
@@arduinoversusevil2025 Well don't do it on my accord, I think the conclusion is clear, good wrenches are made better than the fasteners they fasten. This determines how thick and strong to make the wrench in the first place, else 10mm wrenches would be just as beefy as 1" ones. Though, I've absolutely shattered power fist "drop forged" (cast) wrenches far, far, far, far before a rusty bolt decided to turn.
Perhaps just mill an appropriate hex on the end of that hex bar stock.
Everytime I watch one of your videos I not only learn something I didn't know but I learn new ways to confuse the crap out of my kids by quoting you. It's funny only to me and that's all that matters.
I very much appreciate the "Sidehill Gouger" reference, being a longtime fan of the Journal of Irreproducible Results.
AvE: Makes multiple videos on hydraulic injection.
Also AvE: 8:32
When you have slightly used nuts a 12-point doesn't do a good job. That's why you heat the nut before you put the 12 point on it if that's all u got.
These are my favorite videos. I love your version of science. Inspirational
A strangely satisfying test. I did not correctly predict the result.
1:50 looks like a perfectly fine application of the impact socket to me
Nothing beats the classic 5 and 13 point wrench combo
You joke but I have actually seen 5 point screws.
Excellent hypotenuse on the knuclkelfercation of the 6 and 12 point box tightener!
Many moons ago I was a 21 year old kid crushing class 5 in the Bakken oil fields. I remember fondly pounding wedges back in on the screen deck. At the end of a 16 hour day on an old libman roll/cone crusher.
The second ever Snap on Canada tool ive ever seen, the other is the 19mm socket in my tool box 😀
Big advantage to the 12-pointer is you can also use 'em on square drive XD
no discrimination they strip those out just as well
@@badlanz8642 if you strip the head off your tap you got problems mate..
That's why you need the set of 8 point sockets. Kind of hard to find, Williams has 'em (at less than Snap-On prices, and US made). I found an old Proto set (in great condition) of 8 point, 1/2 drive sockets a retired mechanic was selling.
Love your stuff Uncle B! You can keep all them clippers out there though, you've given us enough out here in Manisnowba this year!
It’s been awhile since we had a solid torture test And I’m glad this one came up as I’m looking to buy a solid set of wrenches these videos helped when I purchased my set of ratchet wrenches
On a brand new hardened bolt. Yeah, maybe they work the same. Try getting off old rusty grade 5 or lower bolts and you'll round way more heads off with a 12 point. At least in my experience. Of course they're as like to just break as anything else, obviating the utility of either wrench but that's a topic for another day
For big fasteners yes. But when you're talking about 1/4" heads of bolts or nuts the 12 point does slip, especially when the hardware is corroded.. I know from personal experience. But bigger head size hardware I agree 100% no difference at all.
As a trades man. Please 🙏 never stop making videos. I have enjoyed your videos for years! Love the shop talk! Keep them coming 👍
As many before me suggested, a smaller head would be interesting.
Also a lot of people came up with rusted heads. And this was also my first thing, I thought about.
The problem I see is: How do you rust away multiple bolts the same way.
So what does rust do:
-It shrinks the Head. (Okay, first it gets bigger, but if you clean the bolt, the remaining steel is smaller)
If you mix up Metric wrenches with Freedom units bolts, you could get a situation where the head is smaller than intended for the wrench.
-It rounds off the edges.
So the edges of the Head could be turned down a little bit with a lathe. And this every time by nearly the same amount.
-One additional thing is the Surface roughness.
You could try sandblasting it, but this makes every time a huge mess and the result isn't as consistent. So I would ignore the surface finish for now.
Maybe this is the too complicated view from a German (soon) mechanical engineer.
Love videos like this, keep it up.
For years I loved the 12 point for the very reasons you give... however with some poorly made inferior "automotive" grade bolts I have found that with the 12 point there is a better chance of rounding off and destroying the bolt head "prematurely" the 6 pointer... not so much.... so now I'm wondering if I was using my metric 12 pointers... on a standard bolt head... "prematurely"... Thanks for a exciting and stressful video... just love it when heirloom wrench gets preloaded... whoooo!
6 vs 12 point!! yes!! Finally someone doing the real tests we need!
It feels like he's in the wood shed squeezing titulars, and hogging chips. This is the meta-nostalgia I've been craving since
Vintage AvE style goes down smooth! Well done!!
Wouldn't wanna miss a 12 point in the highly congested intestines of a tractor built by damned John. 😁
Now get yourself some soft sloppy fitting stamped chinesium bolts, (especially smaller sizes), possibly chewed on by every passing drunk with an adjustable or overly-chamfered no name wrench; or maybe let 'em rust down a couple of layers.
This is where the 6 vs 12 comes in, hell just recently after removing some very rusty and well abraded(rubbin on dirt or hay) fasteners on 70 year old farm equipment, I'm a new believer in 4 point. (despite it forcing the design engineer to put half a thought into wrench swing. )
Should just start producing 3-point fasteners for maximum torque applications.
Correct! Working at a GM dealership i pick 6 points when i know i am dealing with a soft aluminum bolt or similar.
The 10mm drain plugs can be destroyed ny spanner and apprentice without too much effort however the 300lb gorilla can reef on the 6 point with no issues!
Once again a great teacher stimulates! One addition to your summation: the cube of the tube!
True enough on nice clean bolts. I have better luck with 6 points on my New England Toyota...
My Indiana FJ Cruiser tends to have those fancy bolts that align more with the shape and design of a pop rivet. Waiting on gas tank straps from Japan at this moment as the tank thought it was a sled last week. Motor and tranny still great though!
@@Dr_Skot My 100 series is at 210k and very reliable, but if I do have to work on it I know I’m gonna need some vice grips, good drills and a set of taps. I order replacement hardware for every job I do. Just did a trans flush and broke 3/20 pan bolts.
@@wwatts yep, same boat here, I've already drilled and tapped the gas tank bolt mounts as the bolt just turned into iron oxide supplements haha!
My rusty nuts round off when the socket is anything above a 6.
I'm still trying to find where my grandpa got chadwick 18 point socket set from.
They are at least 70 years old, fraction not mm, almost 5/16, and shorter than craftsman sockets. ¹/4 drive and 3/8 does not fit. I still use them today but you can't force them.
Unless they were from great grandpa and was made by someone where he worked.
Likely 9/32 drive, not used at all anymore afaik but used to be reasonably common
Your "walk of shame" made me spit my beer. It's always good to see that I'm not the only one who does it.
Most of the time I have no idea what you’re talking about, but I’m entertained.
The clipboard safety nuts. So safe you have to have to be extra carefulling.
My experience. 12 points slip too often on the bolts. Especially old rusted bolts and really cheaply made bolts. 6 points stay nice and firm on the bolt. A lot less chance of slipping and rounding bolt off.
I only use 6 point wrenches and sockets now. I refuse to use anything else
I completely agree. large, quality bolts like these work awesome with 12 points. or small 12 point bolts like ARP. 12 points suck for rusted or cheese grade bolts.
My electronics teacher Mr.Goins was absolutely awesome..would do his best to not let anyone fall behind in class, was a major part of my younger life.
I love these vids! This and the BOLTRs. Doesn't matter if you are breaking something on purpose or tearing it apart to see how it works. I just enjoy hanging our listening to Uncle BF ramble!
I'm genuinely curious if it's the same case for a smaller bolt like 1/2" or 3/8"
I am sure with a smaller bolt the bolt would fail even easier. With a larger fastener I think there's a chance for a different result. Wrenches do get smaller depending on size but I think they are made proportionate to the size of the bolt.
My snap on dealer has managed to sell me on both somehow.
Shiny things make brain not work.
The gibson and fenders do the same thing
Your fasteners are in great condition. On the rusted vehicles I usually work on, I go down a size and hammer the bastard on as hard as I can.
I love AvE and these kinds of tests, but automotive work is definitely an exception to this conclusion. You get a lot of rounded #8 and #10 bolts due to 12 point sockets. So much so that in our shop we trained heavily to use a 6 point socket or wrench on a 6 point bolt/nut. It cut our damaged fastener lost time in half. I'm sure this conclusion is correct for large diameter fasteners, but for small and worn fasteners, that just isn't the case.
Loved the video, but this is one of those situations in which the test you're testing is not testing what you think your test is testing. As others have mentioned loosening a bolt with a corroded head is a lot different from tightening a brand new bolt.
yeah on the Skidmore at work this came up whether to use bolts as received or wax them
At least Proto is still decently well made by well paid employees. I'm still bitter about what happened to SK Tools.
What happened to Skype tools?
@@jarrodholden533 They were bought by Hangzhou GreatStar Industrial Co., Ltd. along with other companies (such as Arrow Fastener, Goldblatt Masonry, Jorgensen clamps) and will no longer be producing anything in the USA. GreatStar is, as you might have guessed, a Chinese company.
The press release, which was met with great surprise and upset, has since been removed from the SK website due to backlash but it's still available from the web archive.
Everyone doesn't have to invent the wheel! We learn together from your testing! Thank you kind sir for your knowledge.
Enjoyed this one mate.. cheers for sharing
The hundreds of rounded heads I've cut off with torches seems to indicate that somehow, the fastener isn't always the weakest point.
Would be interesting to try exactly the same trial, but on bolts where the head has been exposed to artificially increased rust and wear. Like in a salted rock tumbler.
Do my eyes spot a Pittsburgh ratcheting wrench?! I have a full set of those at home. Just surprised that AvE would lower his standards so much. 😅
Straight from the Hazard Fraud
I hope he does a full shit test of them at some point.
I haven't had any issues with Pittsburgh wrenches and sockets, but I'd sure like to know where they are lacking in comparison.
There is a purpose for 6- and 12-point sockets and box end wrenches. Tight turning radius means that a 12-point with its shorter arc before resetting on the bolt or nut has an advantage. The internal bevel on a 6-point socket can allow the socket to slip so I grind off the bevel so that the socket grips further down the nut or bolt.