@@netWiz1 It would loosen the seals, so it wouldn't stick as much. It would eventually start leaking, but hey, it's coolant, it's supposed to leak anyway...
keep in mind you have to subtract the seconds of work, multiplied by the number of times you do that work from the hours of time avoiding to do that work.... you will still never make up the difference but it gives you the motivation to continue wasting time to not do that work.
"Normally, if given the choice between doing something and nothing, I’d choose to do nothing. But I will do something if it helps someone else do nothing. I’d work all night, if it meant nothing got done." - Ron Swanson
Just add a pneumatically actuated hammer to the cylinders. 5 taps per second, easily done with 10 0r 12 valves on one of these fluid logic systems that were popular in the 70's.
DIY air over hydraulic: Oversize the airlines and run them to the ceiling and fill with hydraulic oil. That way the cylinders are always filled with oil. I bet you it’ll work.
You know, a couple of garage door springs mounted vertically with cheap openers driving them would be WAY scarier. I'm not sure it would work any better, but I bet you would get real close to losing positive sphincter control every time it operated!
That almost worked great AvE., maybe a large coil spring attached to the outbound rod so it'll help retract it? BTW, many moons ago when I was a wee lad, working as shop labor at Beamsterboer Slag and Ballast in or around Hammond, Indiana, the mechanics one day were working on a large hydraulic cylinder removed from a large bulldozer. They were having trouble moving the movable part so decided to use compressed air to NUDGE it out bit by bit, but unfortunately they didn't provide any limiting device to the cylinder whilst doing so, and on the first shot of compressed air, the inner rod shot out of the outer cylinder like a cannon ball, which when skittering across the shop floor along with what seemed like gallons of hydraulic fluid : )
I work for a haas dealer that does machine mods and we use dynatect Safety Door Retrofit Kits. Belt driven that can be made safe ie will stop if you have something in the way
Can you maybe just take those apart and remove the wiper seal from the inside? Or change it out with a seal with less friction ? It might reduce some stickiness. Or add some KY.
Keep the wiper, debris will score your rod if left unchecked. I would tear it down and use an unloaded gland seal or "u-seal". The seal in there now has what they call an Energizer in the u-seal. Hercules sealing products sells to the public now and you can buy a one piece u-seal or rod seal that doesn't have that.
There may also be assembly lube (grease) in the cylinders that is causing the sticktion at both extremes of travel. Disassemble them, clean with a non-chlor solvent, and reassemble with spray dry silicone as the lube.
I thought "Princess Auto" was AvE's comedic "remix" of some real business name. I found out it's a real business name of a Canadian "retail chain specializing in farm, industrial, garage, hydraulics and surplus items". :D
Great to see you back young man didn't know what happened to you I was getting a bit worried I was starting to get panic attacks lol keep up the good work mate you've told me so much over the years, your TH-cam mate Brad from Queensland Australia
Feeling like the guilty pleasure all the Manufucturing companies are taking watching you try fir us. Keep trying my good sir. We love what you do and admittance to fail fast and hard is just a splendid touch
Garage door springs and rubber end stops? Actually reminds me of something I did as a kid. Repurposed a button and solenoid for remote trunk opening into a Mustang II, BUT, also turned the springs up. ...every time I hit that button, I crouched down, to avoid the possible shower of broken glass. Never backed off the springs. Whoever got that car, must've got a fun surprise...
I always use linear actuators where hydraulic cylinders are recommended, pneumatic cylinders in place of linear actuators, hydraulic cylinders in place of electronic servos, electronic servos in place of gate valves (except in dams), ball valves in place of flow control valves ,
I went down this road once .I used a rotary actuator from a butterfly valve to raise and lower a boom on a spray rig . Even with needle valves controlling the air flow on both sides of the actuator the speed control was temperamental . I always thought about using an air over oil system like how the old single post car hoists used to operate . /@DrewskisBrews idea of using the cooling system sounds like it would worth a try ,
If you really want to make it complicated and fun, use a single cylinder attached to lines going through a few pulleys just like you would with curtains or drapes. My buddy did this for a set of sliding doors he wanted to open and close like they do on star trek, it worked surprisingly well though it did open and close a little hard sometimes.
I had a dream that you explained why we use hydrostatic testing vs. Air/nitrogen for pressure vessels. I witnessed an explosion recently, and I’ve always been a pro-hydraulic fan. You could maybe touch on explosive hydro-forming spheres for fun, and why nobody dies. Signed by a 10 year almost welder for the mining industry, Johno
It needs to have high pressure on both sides and decrease pressure on one side to move. As an bonus you get better sound effects. On air pressure loss can have doors notmally open with spring valve
We use air over oil with hydraulic cylinders for some applications. Tanks on either side for the oil to push into. Lubriplate FMO 85 VG-22. Takes the springy-ness out of it and the oil keeps the seals nice and lubricated.
...... what eclipse ? Your lights are on ... Your at home ... You got there ... You examined the work to be done ... ...... when is closing time ? ( no rush , no damage ..... perfect day )
Some sort of over centering spring loaded linkages on the door end would probably help it close softer and be alot easier to set up to reliably seal the doors.
A sprocket on each corner of the machine, with a chain between them ran by an electirc motor. Tie one door to one side of the chain and the other one to the other side. Voila simple system with a single motor runing both doors. A used garage door opener would be large and cumbersome but perfect for the funcrion.
Hydraulics for precision and power. Pneumatic for bounce and breaking windows. Servos and chains would habe been my choice. Kinda like automatic curtains.
Hydraulic does have its advantages as far as positioning goes. However, one can use pressure on both sides of the cylinder, as to dampen it. The cylinder still moves when a differential pressure is provided between the two sides. However, given the sticky nature of these two cylinders then one would need a fair bit of differential pressure to work with, and add on top some backing pressure for increasing stiffness, then it very quickly ends up being a scary amount of pressure. And as detailed before, air is a much better spring than oil. So it stores a lot more energy that is always eager to escape.
A small pump pushing some lightweight fluid instead of air would make the system that you already have set up operate very smoothly. An automotive power steering pump coupled to an air motor to keep the original plan of using air. Use a T fitting in the pressure line with a ball valve as your simple pressure relief system
With servo's i use springs to move stuff the first and last parts. They start to push (build up tention in spring), and when they stop, the spring pushes softly to the end stop. If the servo needs to go to the end, it nevers makes it, and starts to fight. With springs the cilinder could move without tention, build up speed, remove drag, and start pushing... Try it maybe?
back in 'dah dey (early 90s).... my buddy was one of the first guys running hydraulic cylinders with nitrogen on his old wagon. would pop right up off the ground with 3000psi. i built the cups to mount the cyls in the strut pockets. biggest problem he would have is blowing out the umbrella seals they would install to 'convert' them to air.
That takes me back to my Interrail days, nights in rattly trains all over Europe… and the doors between carriages were no longer manual, they were super modern pneumatic.. but leaky a.f. or even worse, needle valve at the outflow was blocked, so no luck pushing them either 😂
Took a couple racing shocks. Took the valved pistons out and made some solid ones from aluminum and a couple O-rings. Welded in fittings on each end. Now I can set my race car at dynamic for testing and measuring. Look like normal race bilsteins with ball valves and an air hose fitting out the side lol.
My brother had a log loader mounted on an M-123 tank recovery truck. The dipper boom cylinder would air up if it sat around too long. It made for some pretty dangerous behavior from that boom if you didn't take a few minutes to work the air out of it.
As they are hydraulic cylinders and you are using air to drive them, what about using a small amount of hydraulic fluid just to lubricate the seals? For the long term, you could modify the system so it incorporates an inline oiler, as used on pneumatic power tools, to keep the cylinder seals in top condition and help the cylinders have a long and perfectly functioning life.
You probably have or would think of this yourself, but I'd suggest cleaning out the cylinders and lubing with a much lighter oil than hydraulic fluid. My guess is that the rings are permeated with the heavy hydraulic stuff and that if you could dilute that some and replace with a lighter oil permeating the rings it would work better. OTOH the rings being made for heavier oil and (much) higer pressures, may never be happy acting as pneumatics. You also have the problem that the rings were made to be saturated (or at least in limited contact) in heavy oil constantly. It's possible that using as pneumatics they'd dry out and eventually crumble. Possibly you could mitigate this by making sure to include some thin oil in your pneumatic air injection.
I think the obvious solution here is instead of additional air actuators. You should instead just plum hydraulic to the hydraulic cylinders you already have. 2000psi > 200psi
yeah, but you could fill one side of one piston with oil, and tie the oil line to the opposite cylinder purge it good, then ending up with one air line per cylinder and the hoodraulic oil to synchronize them
I was working with an enginerd on a fancy part for a nuclear plant one time and it had to slide over another part. I knew the proper words but called it "sticktivity" and he paused, thought for a second, and said "Fk it that works, we have to get to the right sticktivity"
Yep. Grandpa told me about a guy that used pneumatic cylinders for the loading arms on his log splitter. Once the log was lifted and it "cammed over".. yikes. Shock and slam and herky jerky for sure.
Try running it off the coolant system. That could be entertaining
LOL was gonna suggest the same... You already have a low pressure hydraulic capable fluid at the machine!
How well is the coolant filtered? Any chance of frigging up the seals?
@@netWiz1 It would loosen the seals, so it wouldn't stick as much. It would eventually start leaking, but hey, it's coolant, it's supposed to leak anyway...
@@aerogfscooling and self lubricating in one 👏
Why would you say a hateful thing like that? Truly, man is wolf to man!
If you're not spending hours of time to avoid seconds of work, whats the point?
keep in mind you have to subtract the seconds of work, multiplied by the number of times you do that work from the hours of time avoiding to do that work.... you will still never make up the difference but it gives you the motivation to continue wasting time to not do that work.
😂😂😂
Words I can't help but live by. I didnt install smart switches in my house because I'm lazy. I did it because they're cool.
Amen brother haha
"Normally, if given the choice between doing something and nothing, I’d choose to do nothing. But I will do something if it helps someone else do nothing. I’d work all night, if it meant nothing got done." - Ron Swanson
Sometimes the brain says, "Why not?"
Then reality tells you why !
reality is overrated
Sometimes we just haven't to learn the hard way.
Reality is a virus, downing in excuses.
And that folks, is the finger trapper 3000!
Slower than opening the doors by hand maybe, but it does make Star Trek noises!
You don't have to make your own sci-fi sound effects anymore!
Open the pod bay doors Hal.
I'm sorry AvE, I'm afraid I can't chooch that.
I'm sorry, Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
I"m sorry dv... I can't do that!
I'm sorry Dave. I'm afraid I can't do that.
AVE comes back during the eclipse... It wasn't a bust after all
Oh... Creepy!
Some call him skull knight
Just add a pneumatically actuated hammer to the cylinders. 5 taps per second, easily done with 10 0r 12 valves on one of these fluid logic systems that were popular in the 70's.
Or an air chisel on a springamathing with the chisel electro-glued. Should chooch
Just gotta remove the doors and take your shower of slice n dice chips and coolant like a man lol
The shower and ships👍
Jeep style
"Welcome to the hooodrolic CNC channel"
I can relate. My X axis is half of an old automotive lift salvaged from a snowbank, and the rotary is surplus slewing gear for solar tracking...
Lmao... why did I just read that with an accent though!!😂
And here we go!
I read that in Lauris voice, all that was missing was crushing some stuff lol
Glad you are alive, I was thinking some corpo did you in like Boing done did John Barnett.
A shower and a grower. Best of both worlds, louder and more dangerous!
DIY air over hydraulic: Oversize the airlines and run them to the ceiling and fill with hydraulic oil. That way the cylinders are always filled with oil. I bet you it’ll work.
Don't forget your release clamps, I have to disassemble the whole hydraulic system to get the door open. 🤣
If you use shorter pneumatics you could use a lever type linkage for double the stroke, half the chooch.
"they didn't have anything long enough of the shelf" me too buddy, me too!
You gotta go a special website for the big girl stuff, I've found.
You know, a couple of garage door springs mounted vertically with cheap openers driving them would be WAY scarier. I'm not sure it would work any better, but I bet you would get real close to losing positive sphincter control every time it operated!
You have some floor on your shavings.
I’ve got a brilliant idea, use the upper appendages and the flexible five digit implements that are inherent to the mark 1 biomass.
You can used Try flow Teflon lubricant on those shaft! No more stickiness issues!
Man glitter....ha ha ha
I've seen similar devices used in other..."settings"......they go in and out pretty quick. The stroke is .....
Never mind.
0:07 lordy, it's a two fer this week 😅😂
Glad to had yea back my bouy
2:28 deer say, woodnt a lob of lube do the tricket?
That almost worked great AvE., maybe a large coil spring attached to the outbound rod so it'll help retract it?
BTW, many moons ago when I was a wee lad, working as shop labor at Beamsterboer Slag and Ballast in or around Hammond, Indiana, the mechanics one day were working on a large hydraulic cylinder removed from a large bulldozer. They were having trouble moving the movable part so decided to use compressed air to NUDGE it out bit by bit, but unfortunately they didn't provide any limiting device to the cylinder whilst doing so, and on the first shot of compressed air, the inner rod shot out of the outer cylinder like a cannon ball, which when skittering across the shop floor along with what seemed like gallons of hydraulic fluid : )
Star Trek was smarter, they just had 2 guys open and shut the automatic doors.
At this point, I'm giving up on air and oil... and using electric motors and belts. One of those kits for doors.
yeah, you could copy the electric sliding doors supermarkets use. i think air rams are the wrong way to go but w/e
I work for a haas dealer that does machine mods and we use dynatect Safety Door Retrofit Kits. Belt driven that can be made safe ie will stop if you have something in the way
Looks like two more reasons to wake up one day and say ahhh fuck. KISS has left the building 🎉😂
A wise man once told me. Sometimes the ethical question of whether should you just because you can?
Nice , now you can hear when someone try to steal a bag of Chips from there.
Can you maybe just take those apart and remove the wiper seal from the inside? Or change it out with a seal with less friction ? It might reduce some stickiness. Or add some KY.
I was thinking maybe some oil myself. Pistons always go in and out easier if lubricated.
Keep the wiper, debris will score your rod if left unchecked. I would tear it down and use an unloaded gland seal or "u-seal". The seal in there now has what they call an Energizer in the u-seal. Hercules sealing products sells to the public now and you can buy a one piece u-seal or rod seal that doesn't have that.
Yes, KY is some slippery stuff, got me out of a situation a time or two.
I don't know I'm thinking ASTROGLIDE...
That rod lube comes in a variety of flavours now
Air springs spook me.
As they should.
There may also be assembly lube (grease) in the cylinders that is causing the sticktion at both extremes of travel. Disassemble them, clean with a non-chlor solvent, and reassemble with spray dry silicone as the lube.
I thought "Princess Auto" was AvE's comedic "remix" of some real business name. I found out it's a real business name of a Canadian "retail chain specializing in farm, industrial, garage, hydraulics and surplus items". :D
canukistan harbor freight equivalent
Do not let Dewclaw run the switch if your head is in the door path...
Love it when I realize I’ve been “mysteriously” unsubscribed to my favorite channels
Great to see you back young man didn't know what happened to you I was getting a bit worried I was starting to get panic attacks lol keep up the good work mate you've told me so much over the years, your TH-cam mate Brad from Queensland Australia
Feeling like the guilty pleasure all the Manufucturing companies are taking watching you try fir us.
Keep trying my good sir.
We love what you do and admittance to fail fast and hard is just a splendid touch
It's not just high sticktivity. It's also low pressure compared to the hydraulic system they were designed for.
Garage door springs and rubber end stops?
Actually reminds me of something I did as a kid. Repurposed a button and solenoid for remote trunk opening into a Mustang II, BUT, also turned the springs up. ...every time I hit that button, I crouched down, to avoid the possible shower of broken glass.
Never backed off the springs. Whoever got that car, must've got a fun surprise...
If this was a fail hard you would have destroyed the doors and hinges ending in maniacal laughter and tears.
Surprised you didn’t buy two screw drive garage door opener’s. You could have a remote button for each door.
I need that "I'm going riding" sign!!
I always use linear actuators where hydraulic cylinders are recommended, pneumatic cylinders in place of linear actuators, hydraulic cylinders in place of electronic servos, electronic servos in place of gate valves (except in dams), ball valves in place of flow control valves ,
I went down this road once .I used a rotary actuator from a butterfly valve to raise and lower a boom on a spray rig . Even with needle valves controlling the air flow on both sides of the actuator the speed control was temperamental .
I always thought about using an air over oil system like how the old single post car hoists used to operate .
/@DrewskisBrews idea of using the cooling system sounds like it would worth a try ,
If you really want to make it complicated and fun, use a single cylinder attached to lines going through a few pulleys just like you would with curtains or drapes.
My buddy did this for a set of sliding doors he wanted to open and close like they do on star trek, it worked surprisingly well though it did open and close a little hard sometimes.
Holio fuck you're alive! I knew you'd return. Welcome back. I was just thinkin' about you yesterday!
I had a dream that you explained why we use hydrostatic testing vs. Air/nitrogen for pressure vessels. I witnessed an explosion recently, and I’ve always been a pro-hydraulic fan. You could maybe touch on explosive hydro-forming spheres for fun, and why nobody dies.
Signed by a 10 year almost welder for the mining industry,
Johno
Godamn that compressible air!
Obviously, the only way to go is with super-critical CO2.
use flow control to meter out your air on each side of the cylinder it will smooth it right out.
You’re alive!!!!! Nice seeing ya again. missed you and your content!
slowly turning your cnc into a musical instrument I see
It needs to have high pressure on both sides and decrease pressure on one side to move. As an bonus you get better sound effects. On air pressure loss can have doors notmally open with spring valve
"We have Titans of CNC at home!"
We use air over oil with hydraulic cylinders for some applications. Tanks on either side for the oil to push into. Lubriplate FMO 85 VG-22. Takes the springy-ness out of it and the oil keeps the seals nice and lubricated.
so in other words - pneumatics lol
Or any hyrdraulic piston haha
Sounds slick as a strar trek enterprise door shooshin open n closed, maybe shoulda sprung for a small electric over hydra lick pumper yoonit.
Wondered if you would gives us video on the Baltimore bridge collision?
It's a terrible day when your cylinder is too sticky... Or maybe it's a great day.
I guess it all depends on how much time and money you have.
FLUID IS FLUID.
...... what eclipse ?
Your lights are on ...
Your at home ...
You got there ...
You examined the work to be done ...
...... when is closing time ?
( no rush , no damage ..... perfect day )
My first thought was electric gate actuator. That'd have the range of motion, right?
You can compress a gas but not a liquid. Hence…
You can compress solids and liquids but gases are far more compressible
Your content is the RedGreen show for the 21st century! Love it!
Can't wait to see you discuss the FLA luffer climbing situation.
BUDDY!! You're back!!! Excellent
I heard a former Haas employee Guenther is looking for work. Maybe he could help you with this project?
😅
@@jfv65 I’m glad somebody got it lol
@@jfv65He better not foksmash any doors 😂
This calls for an air over oil circuit with flow check valves.
so hydropneumatic
2 videos within 24hrs? You're spoiling us, AvE
When in doubt, increase the PSI.
Car window motor works pretty good that's what I used on my sliding back door
5 way 3 position, I've been to that party. Hard to sit down for a couple days after.
Looks like the Town Pump CNC has a chance to become the Town Guillotine.
Some sort of over centering spring loaded linkages on the door end would probably help it close softer and be alot easier to set up to reliably seal the doors.
A sprocket on each corner of the machine, with a chain between them ran by an electirc motor. Tie one door to one side of the chain and the other one to the other side. Voila simple system with a single motor runing both doors. A used garage door opener would be large and cumbersome but perfect for the funcrion.
Hydraulics for precision and power. Pneumatic for bounce and breaking windows. Servos and chains would habe been my choice. Kinda like automatic curtains.
Hydraulic does have its advantages as far as positioning goes.
However, one can use pressure on both sides of the cylinder, as to dampen it. The cylinder still moves when a differential pressure is provided between the two sides. However, given the sticky nature of these two cylinders then one would need a fair bit of differential pressure to work with, and add on top some backing pressure for increasing stiffness, then it very quickly ends up being a scary amount of pressure.
And as detailed before, air is a much better spring than oil. So it stores a lot more energy that is always eager to escape.
Best part of my day looking at a new video thank you sir
I see no issues. Proceed!
A small pump pushing some lightweight fluid instead of air would make the system that you already have set up operate very smoothly. An automotive power steering pump coupled to an air motor to keep the original plan of using air. Use a T fitting in the pressure line with a ball valve as your simple pressure relief system
Sticker than vicky, you gotta warm her up first, or juice the slide guide
why not putting some silicone lubricant inside the actuators it'll help a bit
My thought also . A little lube can get you a long way .
With servo's i use springs to move stuff the first and last parts. They start to push (build up tention in spring), and when they stop, the spring pushes softly to the end stop. If the servo needs to go to the end, it nevers makes it, and starts to fight.
With springs the cilinder could move without tention, build up speed, remove drag, and start pushing... Try it maybe?
At least it makes nice noises. You've invented the "most useless hissing machine". Congratulations!
back in 'dah dey (early 90s).... my buddy was one of the first guys running hydraulic cylinders with nitrogen on his old wagon. would pop right up off the ground with 3000psi. i built the cups to mount the cyls in the strut pockets. biggest problem he would have is blowing out the umbrella seals they would install to 'convert' them to air.
I for one welcome our door opening pneumatic overlords!
Will this be on the mid-term?
That takes me back to my Interrail days, nights in rattly trains all over Europe… and the doors between carriages were no longer manual, they were super modern pneumatic.. but leaky a.f. or even worse, needle valve at the outflow was blocked, so no luck pushing them either 😂
The walrus went to a Tupperware party looking for a tight seal 😊
Took a couple racing shocks. Took the valved pistons out and made some solid ones from aluminum and a couple O-rings. Welded in fittings on each end. Now I can set my race car at dynamic for testing and measuring. Look like normal race bilsteins with ball valves and an air hose fitting out the side lol.
That hissing would make me flip tables
What a cool curious set up. I hope it turns out good! I hope you post some continuation to this project :)
My brother had a log loader mounted on an M-123 tank recovery truck. The dipper boom cylinder would air up if it sat around too long. It made for some pretty dangerous behavior from that boom if you didn't take a few minutes to work the air out of it.
As they are hydraulic cylinders and you are using air to drive them, what about using a small amount of hydraulic fluid just to lubricate the seals? For the long term, you could modify the system so it incorporates an inline oiler, as used on pneumatic power tools, to keep the cylinder seals in top condition and help the cylinders have a long and perfectly functioning life.
Hold on.....I thought air was a fuid???
You probably have or would think of this yourself, but I'd suggest cleaning out the cylinders and lubing with a much lighter oil than hydraulic fluid. My guess is that the rings are permeated with the heavy hydraulic stuff and that if you could dilute that some and replace with a lighter oil permeating the rings it would work better. OTOH the rings being made for heavier oil and (much) higer pressures, may never be happy acting as pneumatics.
You also have the problem that the rings were made to be saturated (or at least in limited contact) in heavy oil constantly. It's possible that using as pneumatics they'd dry out and eventually crumble. Possibly you could mitigate this by making sure to include some thin oil in your pneumatic air injection.
I think the obvious solution here is instead of additional air actuators. You should instead just plum hydraulic to the hydraulic cylinders you already have. 2000psi > 200psi
3:01 omg that was EPIC i wish i could get that mentality
yeah, but you could fill one side of one piston with oil, and tie the oil line to the opposite cylinder purge it good, then ending up with one air line per cylinder and the hoodraulic oil to synchronize them
I was working with an enginerd on a fancy part for a nuclear plant one time and it had to slide over another part. I knew the proper words but called it "sticktivity" and he paused, thought for a second, and said "Fk it that works, we have to get to the right sticktivity"
Yep. Grandpa told me about a guy that used pneumatic cylinders for the loading arms on his log splitter. Once the log was lifted and it "cammed over".. yikes. Shock and slam and herky jerky for sure.
Buying those merch t-shirts wasn’t in vain. Thanks you’ve come back, my wife said you’d left, never to return, just like she will one day 😂