Post Office Board knew about Horizon system flaws and exclusive document show insurers were alerted
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 17 ม.ค. 2024
- As the Post Office Inquiry continues to hear testimony, more and more details are coming to light about who knew what when.
Back in 2019, the Post Office spent at least a-hundred-million pounds still defending the Horizon system when more than five hundred subpostmasters won their landmark settlement.
Tonight, we’ve seen documents that appear to show that the Post Office Board was aware of the Horizon system's failures back in 2013 - indeed it was so worried about a potential miscarriage of justice that it alerted its insurers.
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Knowing about the Horizon faults but then continuing prosecutions is surely a criminal act
Hopefully the inquiry will decide that is the case
Tye gov are also scamming people out of their benefits money. They record fake earnings to stop paying benefits among other crafty tricks. They are stealing from the poor. Swiping the plate from peoples children
Lying under oath?
@@seang2700wow. Malicious prosecution is civil? Would you claim damages from the post office or from individual officers?
Conspiracy to commit fraud I would hope.
Everyone involved in this needs to go to prison,
Exactly
I suspect they'll have died of old age before that ever happens sadly.
100%
100%
Nobody will go to jail despite all this. Not one.
The post office board should now go to jail
They should placard their faces all over, name and shame them
Legislation is needed to reintroduce caning.
She needs to go to jail for a start along with the board fujitsu and insurers
But you can bet she won't. The aristocratic system is not dead in England. It's Just transformed into a new elite. The question is, are the English people going to take this lying down?
@@andrewthomas695 100% correct, nothing ever happens to the elites their above the law
@@FreeToSurvive It is not in the interests of insurance companies to pay out. A systematic example of a built in conflict of interest.
She will get a job as a Tory MP
20 years.
"I apologise unreservedly"
"Oh, that's alright then. I hope you've learned something.'
'Yes, don't get caught.''
I agree.
Apologies count for nothing unless they come BEFORE the apologist is caught.
Wish if i robbed a bank i could say sorry escape prison and keep the money.
There needs to be criminal charges for individuals as well as the organisations involved. You cannot believe a single word that the Post Office says and they have covered it up for years.
Those responsible need to be held 100% accountable. They should be forced to match all fines out of their own pockets and match all prison time suffered.
Plus interest.
Don't forget the suicides (would that count as manslaughter?) and the stress induced illnesses.
@@turnip1stewCorporate mans!aught€r???
As well as jail time the fines they are given should force them into bankruptcy. There’s lots of things a bankrupt can never do/ ever take part-in.
Double it.
It wasn't about protecting the "Post Office " it was about protecting the Board Members of the Post Office their bonuses , the high wages & in Venells case Honours , there are others in this very nasty game of Criminality & they need to face criminal prosecution
NAME AND SHAME THEM ALL - publish the full list of all those involved.
@@henryj.8528 If Fujitsu could get in there and meddle with the PO accounts, then might there also be a possibility that money was taken via that route?
The right thing to do would be for all those proven to be complicit is to take their assets under the proceeds of crime act, put them in prison and then compensate the victims
I believe in rehabilitation; prisons should be humane and people should receive education and training. Usually. But I would like to see Stephen Bradshaw breaking rock on Dartmoor.
Absolutely!
They ruined peoples lives so they should get to know what that feels like, people have suicided, others have lost everything.
I agree.
How many laws has Vennells broken. Perverting the course of justice. Duty of care. H& S legislation. Accounting laws. Theft of postmasters money. Corporate law & company accounts mis statements.
Lee Casteton. The man who believed in the British judicial system and represented himself in court. The system made sure that he was made into an example by bankrupting him and unfairly making him pay all of the courtroom costs. This is what the system does when you have the audacity to stand up for justice and yourself. You must be made into an example so that others don't dare do the same.
Don't Ever Forget That one of the Post Office's senior legal officers Mandy Talbot sent a "Round Robin" email stating that The Castleton Case should be used to send a powerful signal to other Sub Postmaster's who might be "Jumping on the Horizon bandwagon" !
All of then need to go to jail ASAP!
@@nicholaskelly1958 F**c all is going to happen to them.
@82vitt Agreed! Those responsible never get indicted let alone charged
@@82vitt I Hope That You Are Wrong.
I Fear That You Are Right!
@@nicholaskelly1958sorry nicholaskelly my knowlege of youtube is poor .you are not naive you are correct noone is going to jail.i am an OAP and all my years have given me expetiance of how the establishment look after itself.the tory mp who is now z tory mp certainly has changed his spots.seemed to go soft on vennels.
The only people in the UK who think the board of the post office doesn't deserve prison, must be the PO board. But even then, they should be bankrupted. All of them. This turns what was a scandal into showing just how evil these people are. Awful.
Even they know they deserve prison sentences, that's why they won't admit what they did, they need to convince themselves they didn't do what they plainly did.
None will be prosecuted
@@michaelmcginley7930 They'll find a patsy but it will be a grunt down the chain not the leadership
Way back in the day when I worked for the telecommunications side of NZ Post Office, the advice we had was "don't do anything that you wouldn't want plastered over the front page of the NZ Herald". I cannot fathom the stupidity of the Post Office CEO lying to parliament, and the Post Office Board burying the issue.
I cannot fathom the stupidity of the Post Office CEO lying to parliament either.
Money makes people do stupid stuff.
Also, it's the British way innit? These are upper class rich folks and they literally can get away with murder. Bung a mil at the Tory party funds and suddenly you're untouchable and in line for some very lucrative contracts or future "consultancies". The class system here is as robust as it has ever been since Victorian times..
The difference is that, in NZ, you don’t have a boy’s club running the country.
@@ldf4064 Boys being the operative word. Boys doing a man's job
The running theme throughout on the parts of Fujitsu & the Post Office is cowardice ...These people didn't have the moral backbone to admit they knew of the Horizons IT problems, but yet they had the spitefulness to pursue sub-postmasters...
I read that poor Lee Casterton featured being interviewed by Tomo was hounded for an incorrectly perceived owed sum of £25k, with the Post Office spending a staggering £320,000.00 in legal & case costs just to prosecute him to a final conviction....absolute sheer spitefulness & acts of revenge.
That says it all...
The PO prefered to spend more on lawyers to prosecute innocent sub-post officers, than admit the truth and pay compensation!!!!
I do not understand why a police investigation is not underway now. The Inquiry was never set up as a prosecutorial function and has no bearing on any punishment that may be utilised. The authorities should be speaking to Vennells , Crichton , Parker , and others as they were at the heart of the decisions being made at crucial times. There were individuals before this and there are certainly questions for Fujitsu to answer but the time is here for these investigations to begin , justice must be served.
The police are investigating.
because richer people hurting poorer people is never investigated
@@jamjarthecat4205 “investigating” is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that sentence. The same police that beat peaceful protestors and rape women as they walk home at night. The corruption at the Met is well documented. How can we have any hope of a corrupted police force properly investigating a corrupted entity owned by a corrupt government?
There WILL be a small handful of scapegoats prosecuted eventually but a few years after the Inquiry ends next year.
Just more money wasted, after the obscene costs of 1,000 PO false prosecutions, immoral PO defences, Inquiry, insulting compensations, police investigations then more trials. A black hole of public funds for 30 years.
Like the Nuremberg trials, not all camp guards and wrong-doers were prosecuted or convicted or jailed.
The lawyers who eagerly advised the PO in these abhorrent prosecutions need to be brought before court asap.
I absolutely agree that complicit lawyers should be held accountable at the post office and other companies who are abusing staff and customers. It is widespread and systematic.
Yeah
You British?
I’m watching this unfold in my home country from Canada. It’s horrific. This is a degree of institutional, conspiratorial evil I can barely comprehend.
Why are you surprised ?
Britain's institutions are corrupt. They always protect themselves
People can be really really horrible. Lawyers and businessmen are animals.
Same with the shots
its quite normal unfortunately most stories like this go ignored
It affects TV, newspapers, government, civil service, Post Office (board, management, lawyers, accountants), Fujitsu, judiciary - Whole UK establishment is ruined by a computer system, incompetent management, useless government & parliament, lazy media - most had embarrassed cover ups that snowballed - scandal is more far reaching than we know.
Being a ex subpostmaster....proud that i was a pilar of my comunity FOR 21 YEARS witching this BREAKS MY HEART...AND I AM ABSOLUTELY FURIOUS!!!!
I can see why…the destroyed lives of so many people ,who will pay the price…some pathetic scapegoat?
I feel the same way being a retired RN and the covid business.
@@banjopete just like the captain on the ship that hit the FSK bridge. Betcha management didnt want to hear about the problems with the engines.
There appears to be several instances of perjury to answer here.
Absolutely disgraceful boss. Should be prosecuted and held accountable. So many life’s ruined and suffering. No amount of money can buy back the lost years.
Post is a service not a brand. It’s the oldest service in Britain and needs to be returned to the people.
After the Post Office knew of Horizon failures in 2013 or sooner, they continued to prosecute postmasters up to 2015, and also seek cash repayments from postmasters up to 2019 .
UPDATE Post Office were continually told of bugs by Fujitsu from 1999 - so for ALL of their prosecutions.. So many different departments were involved with layers upon layers of dispersed responsibility, with a hard prosecutorial mindset.
That's right. Bugs were a feature of the Horizon system from the beginning. In fact, Horizon was so well known for having glitches that the Post Office had tried to oppose having to use the system. The system was initially ordered for use on something else, to manage the Government's benefits system, but this had to be abandoned because of its unreliability. Rather than drop the system completely as advised by some in government at the time, however, Tony Blair decided to ask Fujitsu to remake Horizon into a system for the Post Office. The Post Office tried to resist this but Tony Blair forced them to have it, and then over time PO and Fujitsu got used to dealing with the glitches remotely within their IT departments, while covering up in public.
@@gaz8891Why am I not surprised to hear Tony B Liar mentioned as part of this.
This whole thing makes me livid.
The poor people who did nothing wrong but had to deal with horrendous miscarriage of justice. I feel deeply for them.
Having been in a situation where you know you are innocent but have no way to prove it and no one seems willing to listen is tremendously frustrating and is frankly crazy making.
The average post office worker deserves better. The service they provide is pretty damn good and they deserves better from the higher ups in terms of how they were treated and the tarnished name they carry with them when saying they work for the post office.
Disgraceful.
The cover up is always worse than the first wrong. Why on earth the courts accepted as "independent experts" software engineers employed by the company which designed Horizon and had an obvious interest in protecting itself is astonishing.
The disclosure of board knowledge since 2013 as stated by Vennells lying to a parliamentary committee should mean gaol.
She should be in prison.
I agree gaol, A couple i knew ran a village post office and gave it up when this system was due to come in as they were not happy with how ot worked.
No chance. Paula Vennells has the Almighty on her side...
Words fail me!!! Just when you think it can't get any worse, it does.
The plot thickens on a daily basis.
@@amandamcauley It does, but that is of no help to our postmasters/mistresses. Why don't the Post Office just hold their hands in the air and admit that they have made one catastrophic mistake and tell the truth from now on? Fujitsu are starting to own up, but I suspect their Japanese masters are telling them to do so. This is a mess, but sadly you and me as taxpayers are footing the bill.
Oh yes, hasn’t begun yet
Our justice system stinks.. The PO board members have behaved appallingly, people killed themselves/!, They cared not a fig.. Injustice on all levels continues - ust look what they do to others to silence them.. I only wish people would be aware of the negligence by this ‘great country’ to its people…
There would appear to be strong evidence people and the organisation was involved in knowingly perverting the course of justice. Such behaviour cannot go unpunished.
The fact they told each sub postmaster they were the only ones having a problem is horrifying. They must have thought they were in The Trial (Kafka)
Not being believed. Is the worst feeling.
💯 I was wrongly accused (unrelated). It took years before the actual truth came out and my innocence was categorically proven. By then, the damage to myself was already done. I suffer to this day
Let this sink in ... Paula Vennells was paid £2,000 per day. She got her CBE "for services to the Post Office" because (and this is ironic) .. she took them from losing £120million and into profit.
Well, guess what? That 120 million she saved will be insignificant compared to the cost of this scandal. The PO already paid £130 million in legal fees and about the same in compensation.
I reckon there's at least another BILLION in compensation to come. Naturally us, the tax payer, will pick up the tab for this, because it's a Government owned company.
So we, the public, get shafted at both ends. False convictions at one end, paying for the cover-up at the other. Meanwhile the Execs were picking up millions and Honours.
Anyone who knew people were being convicted, whilst knowing evidence that would have proved them innocent was being withheld, needs to serve prison time.
What christian values did she uphold ?
@@davejordan4094 None that I can see.
@@alisonwilson9749 i ve watched much of the inquiry , and its horrendous , to listen to the evidence.
No accountability, no responsibility. No justice . No compensation.
They may have apologised for the emails but they sounded incredibly insincere, they sounded more like they are sorry they were caught out just like every other apology others have made.
I think an investigation needs to be made into Post Office Insurance Services, with me catching COVID in 2022 while in Thailand and them leaving me stuck out here, they were impossible to deal with, tried to fly me back when COVID regulations meant I couldn't fly, then dropped me saying the period of insurance had run out.
I wonder how many cases there are similar to mine?
I don’t know if the problem you experienced is quite on the same scale as the Horizon scandal…
@@dezmundo1251 I'm not saying that it is, but if there has been a lot of others who have had similar problems with their Travel Insurance at least, it could be another way the Post Office has been ripping people off, because I certainly was by Post Office Travel Insurance...
After the banking crisis and Grenfell, I have full confidence in justice.
Yes to do nothing and you forgot the murder of haemophiliacs by the Department of Health.
The more they look the more worms they find. The PO directors must have been negligent and lazy and naive for this mess to have happened and for it to have been covered up. Some at the PO must have realised that it couldn't be kept secret for ever. The culprit's are making plans to retire to south America or a tropical island with no extradition treaty.
Jenkins needs jailing for life...
The PO are looking for small fry to be sacrificial lambs. This went all the way to the top.
If so senior management seriously need gaoling.
@@jonahtwhale1779 He is not small fry and the potential legal remedy for perverting the course of justice is life imprisonment and an unlimited fine. However that is unlikely in this case, it is reserved for things like covering up a murder.
It seems he was a player, but he wasn't the instigator of all this. Don't make him the fall-guy. There are bigger fish who need their comeuppance. Remember, it was the Post Office who instigated all of this.
Until he gives his evidence we won't know for sure exactly how much responsibility he had. Some evidence the inquiry has found suggests that others may have pushed him into altering his statements in ways he wasn't happy with. And it seems that he may not have been told he was being used a an expert witness, nor how that changed his legal responsibilities to the Courts. Innocent till proven guilty, remember. At Hillsborough, some officers' statements were altered without their knowledge. We have to wait and see. And there were plenty of people senior to him who knew full well the system was faulty but covered that up- they should all be up for the jump.
Next public enquiry HMRC?
Or take your pick, really. Any national institution, public or private sector.
@@brightphart er, far from nonsense.
Not diminishing, or intending to diminish, anything.
These people have suffered indescribably.
But they are the tip of the UK corporate misdemeanor iceberg.
As for evidence, it's all out there in plain sight - unless you just watch the BBC and read the Daily Mail.
People who covered up and lied at the post office and Fujitsu should face prosecution
From Miss Donna Marie Baff
I am a former librarian (from the 90's onwards) to Britain's nuclear Physicist and ambassador to Tokyo.
Presents proudly in Whos Who and sadly passed away in 2003.
For two decades very powerful people have used strategic ambiguity, dehumanisation tactics and so on to discredit myself and my family in order to conceal information/justice.
Thank you
Up until 18/6/07, I was a policy and procedures writer for homelessness in the not- for-profit housing sector.
My father first told me about our local post office being closed for mysterious goings on.... Missing money, enquiry on, eight plus years ago, and to think that honours were given to someone in charge it sickens me to my stomach....why is only now it is coming out.... What with police corruption, and just about all other public offices, is there any faith or hope in anything anymore? I'm afraid the answer is no
Only jail time for the PO board would come close to justice. But it won't happen.
dedoc7143 you are spot on it won't happen , unless the press and the media keep their shoulders to the wheel and put the government in a position that is impossible to wriggle out of , then they will produce scapegoats who they imagine are expendable and waltz off smirking as usual.
No, don't take away their freedom. They will have a short sentence. Instead, take all their money, their houses etc like they did with the postmasters.
@@jonelectronics510doing both would be real justice. Fingers crossed.
In the next few weeks/months it will be buried and everyone will forget.
They will never get justice,
Gareth Jenkins (The Fujitsu employed Architect of the system) went to very extraordinary lengths to protect himself in this matter
I look forward to him giving evidence the the horizon Inquiry. I hope he gets Mr Beer- all the counsel for the inquiry are good, but Beer is brilliant.
@@alisonwilson9749 That would be perfect and fully justified for this case
People MUST end up in prison for this. I’m so sick of corporations getting away with this sort of behaviour and no one facing jail time.
Paula Vennells sent a CUTE email maybe 2017 or 2019 asking DID or WHEN did the Post Office find out of computer failures when in fact she was CEO since 2012. Incompetence or sly lying ?
Current CEO told Select Committee he does not know this after 4 years in post - believe him ?
The redress money and voiding convictions will not be over for another year or more !
They keep going on about what’s happened but no one speaks about what will happen to all those involved in this hideous crime! They should throw them in prison
Apologies mean nothing if the wrongdoing was forced into the light by others.
Every time you put an e mail like that on screen the picture and name of the writer should appear
I think it does but avoid
Working in finance in the city I am constantly attesting to my professional standards and have to declare I have used sound judgment and confirm I adhere to the regulations (FCA & PRA) and the law. I find it incredible that other sectors do not have the same thorough controls especially around financial systems. If as is reported the PO Boards and their advisors knew about the crisis with Horizon and that the PO had been suing folks then they are complicit and must be brought to justice as must the government minster and department involved in oversight.
They're all sorry when they get caught.
It's incredible how much perversion of justice has been carried out here and the apologies spurted out by all the culpable parties just feel fake!
They're sorry they've been found out, they're not sorry about what was done to any of the Postmasters.
Family asset confiscation for all the perps..
Aww, she's given up her CBE, we can hardly ask for more........
Including any and all pensions!
@@nineelephants1975And bonuses.
An often overlooked aspect of this is that it has also been privatised in the intervening years! In other words the motives for continuing the corruption cover up were, if anything, enhanced!
The board of directors doesn’t have a defense. If they feign ignorance, they’re effectively admitting negligence, if they acknowledge any level of awareness the entire house of cards falls in short order!
Well. well. well. We now have a scapegoat!
It is HRH Royal Mail carry's the Royal Seal?. Does it not then be treason as been committed on the Crown.
The Board was obliged to inform their Insurers, this is when we get down to the nitty gritty.
Common honesty, if not legal necessity, should have obliged them to tell the courts and those they had prosecuted as well.
Paula Vennels has lied throughout. She should be in custody pending prosecution and her assets impounded. Same to the rest of the board who were aware.
Board directors have been shown to be criminally guilty and should be charged for their crimes. What other companies are doing the same?
The Board was specifically advised .... in 2013. Paula Vennells then condemns herself in 2015 in evidence to a parliamentary committee. .were there..any miscarriages of justice?.....no evidence of that .....PO has a legal duty of disclosure. It is right that this statutory inquiry is taking place but its enormous length protects many actors with questions to answer to in criminal proceedings from active investigation leading to criminal charges.
I do hope that POL lawyers are also going to be investigated as they are the ones who drafted statements for POL staff to sign and were providing advice to POL.
They've been giving evidence to the Horizon Inquiry. If you go to the Inquiry website, you can watch them, they're all archived there. Some of those lawyers put up a pretty poor showing.
The Government, what did they know??
Oh they knew before the PO was even using it. In fact, Horizon was so well known for having glitches that the Post Office had tried to oppose having to use the system. The system was initially ordered from Fujitsu to manage the Government's benefits system, but this had to be abandoned because of its unreliability. Rather than drop the system completely as advised by some in government at the time, Tony Blair decided to ask Fujitsu to remake Horizon into a system for the Post Office. The Post Office tried to resist this but Tony Blair forced them to have it. It failed its Acceptance Criteria several times, but Post Office was obliged to persist, and then over time PO and Fujitsu got used to dealing with the glitches remotely within their IT departments, while covering up in public.
It is not over yet despite what the lawyer said because none of the wrongdoers have been charged and only a handful of postmasters have been recompensed. The government cannot leave the Post Office to manage the recompense of the postmasters, they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy as is Fujitsu.
So the list of criminal charges grows ever longer for the executives at the time. And STILL this inquiry lumbers on with the Postmasters no nearer restitution for either their loss of earnings nor their loss of liberty.
So far there has been no mention of Adam Crozier's knowledge of this affair.
As chairman of "Royal mail (the brand)" the "post office" is a subsidiary of "the brand"...so must have been kept abreast of the situation due to the possibility of share price devaluation due to the unfolding issue.
The next step is to strip Fujitsu of all government contracts, no exemptions.
Remember the dead.
Devon postmaster Peter Huxham died in a suspected suicide in July 2020 after being jailed for eight months over a £16,000 shortfall. In that time, his marriage had fallen apart and he had been battling alcoholism.
And the government wonder why there is such a reluctance to allow the installation of "smart" meters.
'Smart' meters and the introduction of Central Bank Digital Currency. Can you imagine government having control over what you can and cannot do with your own money and making your money disappear before your own eyes?
The culture of cover ups is not limited to the Post Office, is it? how about the Windrush scandal? A longer list would not be difficult to come up with…
Grenfell
Hillsborough
Quite simply they had no viable management skills, or else, even in a corporate structure it would've been successful.
I'm not going to detail the skills here, but suffice it to say, every time this sort of thing happens, it's the lack of good management skills. No clue how these people were considered qualified.
Disgraceful - The current Post Office CEO Nick Read categorically stated at the Commons Select Committee only yesterday that even after being in post 4 years, he never tried to find out when the computer flaws were noted, and who knew. Incompetence or lying?
Malicious prosecution
Perjury
Misrepresentation
Withholding evidence
Breach of disclosure obligations
The list goes on
Abuse of process?
One morning, somebody senior at POL woke up and went in to work having decided they would take the fork in the road, marked "From now on, we're going to tell lies..." And that decision has ruined lives. They must be tracked down and made to pay.
The biggest question we are left with is weather its even possible to prosecute those who are clearly abusing power. Somehow i dont think it will be as easy as prosecuting the innocent. Somehow the system is setup in just the 'right' way for these companies to act like this and their employees to get off without prison time despite the trail of destruction that we clearly see.
In Paula Vennels's defense on taking over her position at the PO she was given a poison chalice already full to the brim. She had two choices, drink it and become part of the cover up or blow the whole thing open and destroy the PO. What a terrible position to be in. She took the former and easiest option in the hope that what had happened would never become public knowledge. The biggest blame for this debacle rests with senior managers and her predecessor.
The tax office, DWP system is flawed too. Anyone speaking out about that yet? I dont think thier accounting systems can do the math.
I've had this problem with dwp
The question yet to be asked: What was the underlying reason for the cover-up? We have heard that Post Office (POL) decisions were about “..protecting the brand”. This was essential as they must have been planning on privatisation and the £billions to be made as the major institutional shareholders did with the Royal Mail sell-off in 2013/15. The "value" of POL was in their USP, Horizon. So, Horizon had to be defended at any cost including wrongful convictions, bankruptcy, prison, even suicide.
Where justice for Grenfell? Nowhere.
Nothing will happen to these utter criminals.
“Buried in the legal papers” the lawyers knew and facilitated injustice. Utterly revolting profession.
You British?
That apology from the Fujitsu CEO in Davos was very close to a non-apology. He didn't even have the decency to stop running away from the reporter, look into the camera and give a proper statement.
Corruption in the water.
This Post Office scandal is absolutely appalling!
Gareth Jenkins was a key witness whose testimony sent innocent men and women to prison!
Both Fujitsu and the Post Office key players should be in prison asap!
The people that covered this up need to be put in jail.
"they tried to keep a lid on the whole thing" ... well "they" should be criminally charged!
What on earth is any officer of Post Office or Fujitsu doing at Davos.
If any executives or post office investigators, Fujitsu managers or government officials go to jail, I will eat my hat. NOTHING will happen to the higher ups, it never does.
Was Paula Vennells aware of this letter as well?
She had to be.
Prison time for the lot of them. They knew it would put people in gaol.
There simply has to be prosecutions of the back of this abomination. If they get away with it, it'll show the world what a corrupt country this is. It's no different to anywhere else. Those poor people.........
I'm just gobsmacked that this was hidden for so long! It's so horrific!
Having notified their insurer of their potential liability it will interesting to discover whether (and if so to what amount) its insurer made a reserve against any possible claim.
In a weird way, what makes all this worse is the Post Office spent far far more on legal costs to prosecute any one case, than the alleged sum "stolen" - so even with any restitution from the postmaster, there was always a substantial loss.
Yet another crazy facet to this enormous wide spread scandal, the scope of which is breath-taking.
I have no doubt senior PO members should be facing custodial sentences
What is most amazing is the “Hanging Judge” mentality of the Courts and it’s Judges.Don’t they talk to each other and possibly wonder why so many cases were coming before them of your friendly,honest and harmless Postmasters and sending so many of them to jail. Something stinks in the State of the Courts.
The scandal just keeps getting worse. As David Allen Green says, this reveals fundamental problems in our legal system - not least the assumption that computer systems are flawless unless proved otherwise.
Yes, if Fujitsu had an entire department of IT people dedicated to 'fixing' 100,000 glitches per year from Horizon by remotely 'correcting' data on the system, unknown to the end-users, then does this mean that such constant manual fixing is happening worldwide behind the scenes of ALL computorised systems all the time ?!?
Given that Fujitsu it now is revealed. Were fully aware of the faults in the horizon software before it was released, it seems implausible that this is a one-off. It would be prudents therefore, for for all other Fujitsu software customers to be reviewing their software and contracts for potential problems.
Auditors also have questions to answer.
Further to the Post Office prosecutions based on an IT system, that was known by all including the courts, especially after the Computer Weekly reported the issues( during 2009) hundreds of Post Masters were saying exactly the same, the Horizon did not work properly, so being faulty....it was the courts hearing the civil litigation and criminal prosecutions that did not find nor seek justice, the courts and judges would have known of the number of prosecutions had hugely risen, with same themes, the investigators were not qualified to undertake such work, there was clearly documents missing and only selective disclosure was being provided, many sub Post Masters could not afford legal representation ( a biased one sided process) just some of the issues that should have allowed judges to use their discretion, then to ask further questions so pursuing justice, not just looking the other way, so supporting a process they know fails people every day here in the UK ... the judges sentencing destroyed lives unnecessarily...where are those judges and systems being called to account??? Seems no one wanted to address this very real and pertinent question ...WHY did the judges not seek the facts ?
I would not have any faith in the UK legal system or my chances of getting a fair trial based on what has been said ... it’s all smoke and mirrors to avoid the obvious conclusions that the entire legal system is designed for those few people that can play it...not for the many that use and misguidedly believe the truth will come out in court ...such a very clearly incorrect assumption...
I don't think you can blame the judges where people have lied to them in court. They can only go on the evidence presented to them. Some judges threw cases out, BTW.
@@alisonwilson9749 many thanks for your comment, the issue I hoped to explore is this is a systemic failing, the legal and judicial functions failed in every way as they devastated people’s lives ...we must understand why, when the evidence shows the courts had a significant part in this scandal...
I wanna see the priest in an orange jump suit 😂
And her personal wealth confiscated. Also, is there any news regarding the Anglican Church removing her entitled status?
If you remember ICL, they got all Government contracts in order to stay afloat, they were the least innovative and mediocre firm in the Computing world at the time, Fujitsu bought them out for the lucrative Government contracts and it sounds like they changed very little.
Ban Fujitsu from all UK public funded projects. Jail people responsible. Fine all the board members at the time.
If you want to protect a reputation, be honest and you will gain points. Covering up will eventually wipe out the reputation you were trying to protect.
The enquiry consists of “I DON’T RECALL “