Covert recordings prove Post Office covered up scandal for years
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มี.ค. 2024
- When the public inquiry into the Horizon scandal resumes next month, Post Office executives will again be questioned over what they knew, when, and what they did about it.
This programme has obtained secret recordings of conversations over a decade ago between senior Post Office executives and the independent forensic accountants hired to find out whether sub-postmasters were to blame for the shortfalls at branches using the Horizon system. And, as we exclusively report, they prove beyond doubt that the Post Office covered up the scandal for years as they continued to pursue innocent employees through the courts.
Produced by Nanette van der Laan.
Music: Free Music Archive.
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![รุ่นใหญ่ EP.2 บุกบ้าน เสรีพิศุทธ์ ระหว่าง บิ๊กต่อ กับ บิ๊กโจ๊ก อา รักใครมากกว่า ?? l [Nickynachat]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/j2inUqhN__0/mqdefault.jpg)
These senior PO and Fujitsu people need to go to prison. The shame of this. Absolutely shocking.
yep 100%
👍🏾
Not going to happen unfortunately, same as Covid, nobody will be held accountable!!!!!!
Absolutely, they need to get a taste of their own medicine.
Fujitsu should never be allowed to operate in the UK again, as a minimum. I'd expect to see criminal prosecutions of anyone who played a part in keeping this under wraps.
The Post Office Hierarchy and Fujisu need to be prosecuted
Also cancel their contracts
They won't be. Fujitsu are still landing multi £billion government contracts. I expect to see many ex MP's and ministers on the Fujitsu European op's management team and affiliates very soon. It's how the system works.
PRISION
FINES
No one will be held accountable for this, guaranteed.
Well done Channel 4 on getting these recordings. Expose these lying bastards! People died, were falsely convicted and accused of crimes that they did not commit, families lost their homes and savings, families were destroyed and the damage caused by Fujitsu and The Post Office is simply incalculable!
It’s incredible. They knew fraud was being committed and were prepared to let the wrong people be damned in court for it. Surely, as well as fraud/embezzlement, they have committed perjury, or at the very least, perverted the course of justice?
wost thing is we told the infalible court justice system was STILL taking people to court for the po and the tory untilll channel four exsposed this
Horizon system built by fujitsu.
Fujitsu owned by Infosys Technologies Ltd.
Infosys Technologies Ltd owned by Rishi Sunaks wife and inlaws.
Say no more!
Once this was a Good World , Today its a Bad Bad world you just can't trust as you Once did sad but true😢😢😢😢
@@notme1345 no no no. How much profit went to the PM and all his relatives.
Vennells must be immediately charged for crimes against postmasters. No more waiting for inquiries. The evidence is fully available. Police need to enforce the rule of law.
100% agree
i can't trust the police to act correctly after all the courts and justice system have done for the post office already.
too much gaslight for too many years.
lol.... if the MET involved, they will do nothing!
You leave poor old Paula alone. You do know she spent 2 months away from the club with her head down (she's back now though. Good for her. She suffered) Time to move on.
Fujitsu need to be massively penalized here, this is outrageous.
No, the company does not need to be penalised, the individuals who knew need to go to prison. Fine the company and the executives just move on to another high paid job or become MPs
Aww, bless. This is Britain!
Or Sunak needs to hand them over a billion in new contracts.
It's Post Office that is in the wrong.
And these people on the recordings have to take responsibility for their actions! They knew the situation and still let it proceed! Unforgivable jail time for them jail time ‼️
If prison sentences are not handed out here we have got to question our legal system pure disgusting 🤬
The most they'll get is 2 years suspended, they'll never see the inside of prison cell
Very true. They can afford the legal teams they knew their victims couldn't pay for so unfortunately they won't go to prison. The government will help them out with their "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE" card.
What do you mean we need to question our legal system? Its been broken for decades
I'm willing to bet they are all tory voters so they will get a slap on the wrist and a fat cheque.
The so-called inquiry is to spread blame and protect the bosses.The government on both sides of the house let this happen and supported it.
Misconduct in Public Office, life in prison!
These top bosses need to be accounted for and sent to prison. Outrageous scandal and must be punished severely.
Hahaha hahahaha hahaha hahaha, nice joke!
That's a nice fantasy but has little to do with reality.
explain?@@tjmarx
@@user-wu1dv6jk5s "we have investigated ourselves and amended any laws we could be held to account by" fujitsu is owned by rishboys wife via infosys. open any history book and you will find that governments as endemically rotten as we have, being held to account, is a process known as civil war and revolution.
Well done channel 4 . Excellent work. People need to be jailed for at least as long as those poor Post Office staff. No jury would let them off.
Just many years too late.
exactly and their pensions, fancy houses all paid for and other assets etc taken so they know what it feels it to lose everything. The money made can go towards the compensation pot
Rare W for channel 4
th-cam.com/video/bgGtd06wC1s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZifFPZvhtVSyAkIb
Why have the police not arrested all the senior members of the Post Office Management?.
Because their supervisors don’t want that !
It’s rigged and corrupted top to bottom !
One law for the rich,one for the riff raff
Good question. Americans do lots of things very badly, but they can and do heavily penalise some forms of commercial wrongdoing. We should do the same.
2 tier policing
LOL the police is there to protect the govt and corporations against the ordinary people dear.
People need to go to jail, really.
Considering the harm and the intent, jail seems far too cushy. It pains me to say it but those who are responsible and complicit need to face much more severe consequences.
Cathy Newman ought to go to jail for the way she conducted the interview with Jordan Peterson on Jan 16, 2018. She inaccurately summarized his statements 30 times in a half hour exchange. Shame on Cathy Newman.
Definitely
The right people need to go to jail, not the post masters.
Aye
Why are these covert recordings only now being shared? Perhaps if they had been shared sooner, Seema Misra would not have been flung into prison with an unborn child in her womb, Lee Castleton would not have been bankrupted, and Martin Griffiths would be sitting with his feet in the sand somewhere, enjoying the Easter vacation.
Even sadder than that, this is our system of justice. It took this many ruined lives and this many years to uncover this miscarriage of justice. What about all the cases of individual people with no big group action to bring and no James Arbuthnot, no Alan Bates to bring their truth to light? If we think we can pay off the post office workers and go back to pretending the system works for everybody else, we are deluding ourselves.
Probably they had to keep them for the court case? I dont know but I'd imagine they kept their secret weapon under cover? Did they bring them to court I haven't watched the show yet or caught up on it all.
They needed to allow senior people involved to move on, retire, so they’re out of the way first.
@@Pathofplentywhy?
It is not too late to put them in jail, but you are right about how badly our justice system behaved.
Why do you think? There were problems exposed during the very first trial of the new software. Warnings that it could lead to disaster. The Post Office employee in charge of reporting those findings went back to the Post Office and said the software is working perfectly and it should be rolled out to everyone. At every single point people were pointing out issues, trying to get help and reporting widespread problems. This isn't the one piece of evidence needed to expose the whole thing, it's one of dozens that have already come out.
Fujitsu wanted to get paid and further government contracts. Which they got. Admitting the whole thing was a disaster would have gotten in the way of profits so they just moved extra people into the helpline section who were dismissive and/or racist about people who called for help because it was a demotion. We have evidence of that and again never came out.
The Post Office was trying to show it was financially viable so it focused on revenues at all costs so software that was discovering massive fraud? Exactly what they needed. They also changed the system so you couldn't dispute problems past a month so if you had an actual theft you would still end up personally financially responsible if it wasn't resolved by the end of the month.
The union should have been looking after members but if you were no longer a postmaster or postmistress you were no longer in the union. The position by the top of the union was they had to avoid disparaging Horizon or all of their members would be out of work. It you could find a unique issue unrelated to Horizon, like physically damaged hardware, you could protect the member that way but attacking Horizon could be the end of everything.
More importantly no one apart from the experts really understood the software itself. Everyone assumed it just worked like normal double entry bookkeeping. Even people who might have understood there was something strange going on wanted to know where the money was going. If there was a loss of £10k it had to be somewhere, very few people had the technical expertise to understand actually the system could just invent the loss. Even people who paid back money or went to prison had no idea what had gone wrong at the time. Some of them didn't find out until years later. So what happens when everyone is desperately trying to show the software works, the Post Office is fit for purpose, the government doesn't need to sell it off, if we get better at preventing fraud we'll be making more profit than ever? Well if the only alternate explanation requires complex computer programming explanations that Fujitsu doesn't want to disclose (also some low level coder who finds a bug has no reason to think that bug was responsible for putting someone in prison so they don't have any reason to come forward) a lot of people are going to end up part of a cover-up they don't even understand. We've had testimony that's come after the drama from someone who still doesn't understand that disputing mistakes was to protect people. She still thinks it was just used to commit fraud and that the majority of instances were fraud not computer errors.
The whole thing sickens me, and through all this Paula Vennells was even an Anglican priest!
She was on a final shortlist of two to become the Bishop of London! Which comes with a seat in The Lords. After deliberately putting innocent people in prison, this vicar went on to a very lucrative job working as a Senior Exec for an NHS Trust.
She clearly worships money and power more than her god. Corporate Evil personified.
What's an Anglican priest? Is that the same as evangelical?
People seem to think that religion gives people morals. It does not. Often the opposite is true.
It was worse than that...she was a candidate to be Bishop of London and after she left the Post Office was for a while on the board of an NHS trust....yep this supposedly "Christian" woman who was happy to preach to others about how to behave and be a good person was...dare I say "is"?.....a really nasty piece of work who only looked out for herself
Nothing about religion but about power, control and influence.
Great reporting. Well done Channel 4 News. This scandal just keeps getting more sickening.
th-cam.com/video/bgGtd06wC1s/w-d-xo.htmlsi=ZifFPZvhtVSyAkIb
Something that has not been mentioned enough, is the fact that many of the Sub Postmasters not only suffered financial disaster, but people in their own communities believed that they were guilty and honest people that had good standing, were mercilessly ostracised and victimised. No amount of pardons and money will ever put that right, and the creatures that knowingly perpetrated those criminal attacks must be bought to justice, especially as they no doubt profited financially through their salaries.
i remember local papers putting these victims up for every one to take notice of some time whole pages .some one did this on purpose getting us to hate them and it was not for nothing .take not people what your reading is not news it's gass lighting you to do a lot of tory work for them.
BUT THERE MANY MORE THAN ONE BRITISH INSTITUTION THAT ARE GUITY OF THIS TYPE OF INJUSTICE A GREAT MANY OF GOVERNMENT OFFICE ARE GUITY OF THE SAME THING CORRUPTION HAS SEEPTED IN BRITISH OFFICES OR MAYBE THERE ALWAYS HAS BEEN THIS GOING ON BUT HAS ONLY JUST BEING BROUGHT TO THE PUBLIC NOW THAT THERE IS THE INTERWEB TO EXPOSE THIS NOW!
And who’s going to prison for deception,fraud and criminality? Or are they rich? The law doesn’t apply to them
This is Britain. Of course the law doesn't apply to them.
It's a two tier system and we're not in the top one
rich with god on there side .
Utterly shocking! I know for many years some of the affected postmasters as they are local to me, and how their lives have been shattered. How can they be truly compensated! Surely, somebody needs to be accountable, and punished?
Yes sounds a lot like dominion voting machines
Longggg jail time should be handed out to those involved in the cover up. And stop scrimping on compensation fine Fujitsu billions and pay those innocent people now
Anyone convicted of involvement should have those forensic accountants go through their financial history through the period and any dubious payments including salaries for ill performed roles should be taken back and used to pay back post masters even if it means post office staff are made bankrupt and postmasters profit.
14 years ...
Whose been in charge for 14 years?
Who continues to give Fujitsu contracts?
They should all be in jail.
This goes back well before the Tories came to power in 2010. Although I'm not sure if the previous labour government knew what was going on
@RankinMsP - Exactly. All the employees of Fujitsu still receiving salaries...The contract with Fujitsu being repeatedly renewed. Basically, for being official, paid criminals. It is all too much, how they believed they could all protect each other, and cover it all up forever.
Yes, sounds like dominion voting machines.
Channel 4 reporters are on fire at the moment! Well done.
It just confirms my belief that we are now living in a dystopian society.
Yes, sounds a lot like dominion voting machines
Took a while for you to wake up!
The word ‘scandal’ doesn’t even get close to just how bad this is.
If Vennells and co are arrested tromorrow it won't be a day too soon. She needs to face the music and no soft sentence like probation she needs to do time. The same goes for al the low IQ so called "investigators" we've been seeing in the enquiry footage...put them all behind bars...and fine them
I'd like to know when Paula Funnels is going to take up residency in the Big House?
The corruption is beyond belief
The biggest scandal in British legal history. The longer this disgraceful case is dragged out the worse it gets. the cost of compensation no longer matters - every dubiously charged defendent should be compensated to the maximum extent. Then the perpetrators need to be held to account - Post Office management cannot be allowed to slink away with their generous pensions and various awards. This situation has to be addressed, and urgently. Remember people were ruined and even died. Everyone who sought to benefit in the prosecution and coverup should be looking for and equivalent outcome - long jail terms and bankruptcy included.
the biggest scandal that we know about - SO FAR!
Have you heard about Operation Legacy?
@@Hebe964 Did Ron Warmington Of Second Sight Knowingly Mislead Angela Van Den Bogerd & Post Office? th-cam.com/video/4i0RSEgq4FU/w-d-xo.htmlsi=1r5MHDj-BIJnXUME
Who will now pay back the people their suffering?!!🤨
These liars must be jailed
British tax payers
nobody, those responsible will retire just in time, those who picked up the pieces will claim "it wasn't me!", that is the genius of corporations and govt officials.
If necessary they will drag it out for another 30 years, total genius system, the laws are designed to wear you out before they pay any damages
Jail, jail, jail all the criminals involved in this travesty...
When are the guilty going to face the consequences?
I am glad for this reporting, but even here we get primarily the sadness and outrage of a peer, and not the direct reality of what this did to the people falsely prosecuted. It is sheer feudalism that not a single one of the many wealthy and connected people responsible for this massive fraud and harm have been themselves prosecuted criminally. So much property so easily taken from the less powerful postmasters and their families... how hard it seems to be carceral now. We are sick inside to accept this.
Wow what a disgrace.
And still they carried on for many more years taking innocent to court dragging there good names through the mud . JUSTICE NOW
The level, and quantity of the wrong done here keeps stacking higher and higher.
People committed suicide over this, they should all be behind bars.
…And the accountants who discovered the issue were sacked by the Post Office once they’d made their discoveries known to the board.
This travesty cost my mate, an ex-sub postmaster, his business, his home, his shop, his pension, his health and his good standing amongst many in the small community that his family had served loyally for three generations.
To say that I am disgusted by what I’ve just heard, and it’s far deeper implications, does not even scratch the surface of my feelings on the matter.
I sincerely hope that I’ll live long enough to see some sort of equivalence in justice brought to the people who were complicit in the affair.
P.S. What a pity that the item did not include a segment with one of the VICTIMS OF THE SCAM who ended up in jail, was tarred and feathered by the scandal and now has more grey hairs than they deserve!! Their story MUST be told and be included each and everytime this item appears on our screens! Thank you Channel Four for keeping the item 'alive'.
Respect mr Arbuthnot.
These people are evil, knowing all this and allowing innocent individuals to go to jail, lose time with their loved ones, and drain their life savings. Such evil.
Excellent report and a damning insight into the mindset of senior executives and corporations, and the lengths they will go to, to protect their image, their status, and their money
Heartbreaking and enraging….those with the power knowingly allowed innocent people to go to jail, have their lives ruined, financially wrecked…..whilst they took their fat salaries and basked in their privilege. Justice MUST take place and prison and fines have to be penalties whilst simultaneously reimbursement of finances to those that lost so much. How you can repair the time lost in prison and all that this entails is beyond me…..I cannot fathom how those that allowed this to happen can live with themselves. Anyone who knowingly allowed this to happen MUST face the consequences of the decisions they made……but sadly, I doubt that justice will happen as too many involved in this scandal have the power to pull strings and evade accountability. We mirror the USA in so many things…..I just hope I am proved wrong.
Yes sounds just like dominion voting machines
...and of course, absolutely nothing will happen to those executives.
They're all getting prison terms and professionals will be struck off.
@@jonnywilson6433 Paula vennells is going to jail?
Conspiring to pervert the course of justice, with every single court case the post office pushed, they cant hide away from those charges and a custodial sentence is imminent.
Fujitsu CEO & the entire Japanese board of directors need to get on a plane from Japan & get themselves firstly to their UK Bracknell office & then to the public inquiry.....
@_Ben4810 LOL. Why do you assume that Fujitsu is owned by "Japanese"? Clearly, you haven't done your homework because if you had you would know that they are owned by Blackrock. All you have to do is google 'Fujitsu Blackrock'.
4 days have been set aside for Gareth Jenkins' evidence at the public inquiry. It will take place 25-28th June. That will be very interesting.
Well done Channel 4, this should ensure that the real guilty people go to prison for perjury.
How many millions/billions has the UK Tax Payer spent on this shocking 'not fit for purpose' system from Fujitsu
I'm shocked. Shocked! Who would have thought that a corporation working hand in hand with the government would do something like this....
Criminal charges should be laid on the senior PO staff who LIED to cover up this travesty.
The DPP probably thinks Paula Vennels has been punished enough by losing her chance to become Bishop of London, but if Post Office managers were held to the same standard as their sub-postmasters, many of them would go to prison for a long time for perjury and malicious prosecution. However, the MP is wrong to think this episode was unique among British institutions. How is it that the accountants had no obligation to report law-breaking of this severity?
SEND THEM TO JAIL!
It's good that these have finally been made public. What's concerning is how long the recordings were sat on. Second Sight probably made them as a legal backup, but in effect were complicit by not bringing them to attention at the time.
As an American living in Europe I have been watching this story as it unfolds. What I cant understand is what the legal system in the UK is really like. If this had happened in the US Fujitsu UK offices would have already declared bankruptcy to avoid paying out the millions they would be sued for. But they would be liquidated and still forced to pay something. Each individual post master would have a lawyer and would sue every individual and company involved. It would be for millions and for so many reasons ranging from what they are owed back to what they lost in earnings all this time plus emotional trauma . There would be lawsuits focused on the harm done by incarcerating individuals with coercion, without any proof AND with their knowledge that it was the faulty system. There are just soooo many things that they should and could be sued for that would shut down Fujitsu and the Post Office as we know it. They should sue the woman who recently gave back that award too. It seems like such a challenge to just get the money they are owed paid back to start with and I havent heard anyone talk about filing a lawsuit against Fujitsu. Is the legal system really different in the UK? The lawyers dont seem really intense...they seem a bit like push overs I am sorry to say.
The difference is that you live in a democracy while we are still in the same tyranny you escaped from. Our justice systems have similar problems - e.g. look at how Trump was fitted up - but over here there was never a revolution, or a reset, or the window of opportunity to put in a constitution. And there is less of a pretence that ordinary people have any access to justice. And therefore less show-acting and theatre.
The trouble is you don't fix these injustices by throwing money about. In the end you have to ask where the money will come from. I know the US has an enormous appetite for lawsuits for just about anything, but how many of these ever make it to court and how much compensation actually gets paid out? Inevitably the lawyers will do well though.
Ummm really? 1 word TRUMP
OJ Simpson
Jackson
Capone
Etc etc etc
As you can see, we don’t really seem to take legal matters seriously here 😂😂
There is not a culture of suing, you guys sue for everything. If you kill someone here, you don’t even get a life sentence, so why would this situation result in any real justice???
There are multiple legal calamities in this immense miscarriage of justice, not least the ethical standards of the legal profession at the forefront of the Prosecutions (in house Post Office lawyers in particular and all the General Counsel of the Post Office and Fujitsu over multiple years as the prosecutions were on going!) of people as employers but no real right of Due Process and sped up criminal convictions without a fair hearing to investigate the alleged frauds before sentencing.
Secondly, I agree with you, that the current measure of the govts compensation is a pitful attempt to be seen to do something but in no way, shape or form accurately compensates the miscarriage these subpostmasters have faced.
It is a failure of our legal system that we have not been able to join multiple wrongs across civil and criminal actions in the same suit to ensure that as wide a full restitution compensation is obtained.
The real failure is that to pursue such actions are unaffordable as there is no real structure of Litigation financing any longer after the bottom fell out of that market some years back which exists in the US to enable no win no fee or to enable protracted proceedings to commence.
I cannot imagine the grief and suffering these subpostmasters have faced and this was Corporate Abuse of the highest order. Harassment, Coercive Control and multiple criminal actions commuted by multiple people but under the cloak of a corporation. Why is this not treated in the same way as a criminal cartel?
Our corporate manslaughter and corporate criminal law is also woefully inadequate.
This is the reason Nadine Dorries tried to "privatize" Channel 4.
Excellent point well made.
Not really but the fact is that investigative journalism in the UK has been going downhill for a long time. It used to be something that the papers and programs like the Cook Report used to do all the time - now, nothing like that exists on any channel.
Don't give up investigating.....please. We need to make sure justice is served.
Shouldn't be allowed to get away with this, otherwise it is a green light to repetition.
@@Karlos.xx.travels Yes, and often rewarded despite what they have done or were complicit with.
You mean like Partygate? Track and trace? PPE fast lanes? Brexit?
This country is rotten to the core and the criminals make the rules.
The Post Office and Fujitsu were more interested in covering up than sorting out the problem. Individuals in both organisations need to charged and spend time in prison. Well done Channel 4.
It seems a total perversion of justice that someone can get a criminal record for saying something vaguely 'hurty' on a social network, and yet others can wreck hundreds of lives and have people even sent to prison, and totally walk away with impunity.
Sums up society perfectly 😢
There isn't a decent person in this country who's not furious about this, but no justice will be done. Venells has took her bonus and couldn't care less.
If these creatures aren't jailed, there's absolutely no justice in Britain
The UK legal system needs to now act and bring prosecutions against those involved. These individuals have been complicit and possibly directly involved in controlling and coercive behaviour that wrecked lives, destroyed livelihoods and even worse the reputations of many innocent victims. Behaviour like this is prosecuted in courts on a daily basis.
The people with primary responsibility need to be prosecuted for destroying lives by deliberately withholding the truth. People lost their jobs, their marriages, their self esteem, their reputation, their homes, their money and in the worst case scenario some even lost their life. They still haven't been compensated by having the money the Post Office stole from them returned. They all deserve huge compensation payments that include punitive damages payments. Not only the Post Office, but also Fujitsu need to be fully held to account.
A loot of people need to go to prison for 4-7 years for perverting the course of justice...this whole affair disgusts me.
Where did this recording go for all of these years???!!!!
This is the smoking gun .
These people in the recordings need to be Jailed
It's not even the first smoking gun but yes. There's a whole smoking arsenal by now.
Most of the people in the recordings were the independent investigators who discovered the problems and brought them to the attention of the Post Office. It's the ones who did nothing with that info who should be worried.
They were the independent investigators that were sacked by the post office.
Second sight were sacked by the post office after uncovering the truth then they buried the report!
All you can do is report what you know, in which case you're in the clear. The ones who did nothing with that information are the ones that need to be prosecuted, particularly if they ordered people to shut up about it and to bury all the reports.
Every day there is a new shocking revelation pointing the finger at PO senior staff. When will this end and we can see the whole truth and real justice metered out?
This should be on EVERY news channel
Someone at the Post Office made massive mistake and needs to pay the price..
Exactly the people I expected to be heartless to do this for the benefit of “the business” it really does get dangerous.
I am sickened by the latest disclosures that reveals senior corporate members of the PO and Fujitsu arrogantly thought it perfectly OK to misuse the British legal system of Crime and punishment conspiring to continually withhold and suppress vital information that if known to the Courts, would instantly have led to those wrongly charged and accused Postmasters and mistresses being completely exonerated. Their motive it seems was continue their criminal extortion of funds by falsely demanding cash be repaid when it was never stolen. It beggars belief that such people apparently holding down highly paid jobs could even think it was possible that they’d get away with it. By any standard of justice they should all be made to repay and forfeit their salaries, bonuses and protected pensions to which they were not entitled. Then they should all face the Courts for their total breach of trust in position of senior managers and executives of publicly funded companies. I share Lord Arbuthnot’s emotional distress on hearing the truth.and realising how these people tried to to deceive him.
I'm all for the rule of law but damn I really hope the culprits actually end up in jail and not with the usual slap on the wrist. Shameful and criminal.
Why are the people on those calls not being charged with 'perverting the course of justice'?
That information could have kept innocent people out of jail and they kept quiet.
Yes sounds just like dominion voting machines
@@bieitunsRussian troll, what are you doing here?
FFS! These are the independent investigators who flagged up the issues and were then sacked. They did go on to provide details to the campaign for justice.
I worked in the garage forecourt industry back in the late 1980's early 1990's. Fujitsu could dial into the forecourt EPOS systems even then. Everyone knew you could program the computers over telephone systems live. In 1995 the systems became PC based and everything was controlled. This was the same globally.
Those in public positions call themselves 'honourable' - a false cloak, for most, that they wrap around themselves - Yet ordinary decent people are vilified. The system is upside down.
People need to go to jail here, they must, justice demands it. No Tory protection soon. Tick, tick, tick....
Jail time for all post office staff, Fujitsu staff and anyone who knew and who were complicit.
The more I know about this case the more horrific it is. The levels of ineptitude are astounding.
Its not ineptness, its a conspiracy to to pervert justice
But all the police are intersted in is hurt feelings on social media.. I am nauseated with the way our so called establishment behaves..
I love the irony of hiring forensic accountants to push the blame somewhere else and they end up putting the company on the spot. Poetic, really. I hope justice is made.
Well, at least we know why they suddenly decided to hurridly privatise the post office back in 2013.
With the revolving door, you cant tell where fujitsu end and the government begins. This will go right to the top.
And absolutely nothing will come of it.
If they're happy to put and keep innocent people in prison when they know they're innocent, then they should be prepared to be imprisoned themselves, when their appalling behaviour comes to light.
Shameful. Great video!
I have been a developer on production systems for over 30 years, it is in practice very difficult to have a production system that everyone is locked out of because situations arise that can sometimes only be fixed by amending the production data - for example users somehow input "imposssible" values that cause problems and need manual intervention to fix. Obviously you try to discover in this example how the "impossible" values got there and if you find out, you patch the bug but this is a continuous process. Now the natural response is "well just eradicate all the bugs then" - and that is what separates people who don't understand software from those who do. This is the equivalent of "Let's solve the crisis of homelessness by getting all homeless people to buy a house" - it is correct in a very narrow and unrealistic sense but misses the greater picture.
Exactly. Well-designed systems generate log entries of some form when extraordinary interventions happen. But not all systems are well-designed and getting a fix out quickly has usually much higher priority than closing gaps in the auditing layer.
"Criminal" ...so it continues - with evidence & no recourse to the law.
Why do people believe corporate voices to be honest? I mean, computer expert and Bracknell rings alarms straight away.
Been following this from afar since it popped up into the public arena, and every time you think it couldn’t get any worse, it does. So, the Post Office was fully aware that the sub post masters’ allegations were true, or at least possible, yet for some reason continued to deny that possibility and carry on prosecuting people, who lost their money, houses, friends, communities, and in some cases, their very lives. Senior people need to go to prison for this. And have THEIR assets seized to make the Post Office whole. Nothing can make up for how the defendants were mistreated, but prison for those really responsible for the affair would be the least that should be done.
As the sole shareholder, would the Government have the legal right to know/PO has an obligation to disclose this information?
People need to go to prison over this. Fujitsu are at fault and that should not be lost, but this deliberate hiding and lying and continuing to penalise Postmasters when they knew this was happening.
There seem to be a number of different firms of solicitors currently working for the Post Office dealing with the claims. If their names are revealed alongside the questions that they are asking the claimant sub postmasters showing that they are in effect trying to delay the rightful payments, this would help. Public scrutiny of the fees that these solicitors are receiving should be made. After all, those fees are being paid out of public funds at the end of the day and we should be aware exactly who and how much is being charged. This would concentrate the minds of those solicitors. Details should be given as to the hourly rate being charged.
Solicitors who are aware of clients false statements are not supposed to continue to act for those clients. Confidential reports of their clients wrongdoings are supposed to be reported to the police and the authorities under the money laundering legislation.
What is happening to these reports? The law society needs to be involved and those solicitors not acting in accordance with the rules need to be expelled. Even if that includes the biggest firms who must all be at risk if there are acting improperly.
A clear warning must be given that anyone with any knowledge of this issue must disclose what they know or be called to account if they do not!
Vennells will walk away from this unscathed but furious and self piteous - that's how the system works, it's what it's for
I am still waiting for the answers to
1. Was any money actually taken?
2. IF YES, Was it Fujitsu, Post Office OR Both?
3. IF YES, when are we going to see the Post Office Senior Management, P.O. Investigators, P.O. Legal Staff. Outside Legal Staff to P.O. and Fujitsu Senior Staff and those working then on the Horizon Software, arrested and charged?
I worked for the post office for 10 years and they sickened me
This explains why Ed Davey was missing from Parliament when difficult questions needed immediate answers but fortunately he popped up afterwards
He’s has good as a chocolate teapot ok for ice cold tea 😮😮😮😮😮
@@cliffordbuttle4529 🙃
Where did the money go?
I've spent 24 years working on IT systems for major organisations - mainly financial ones. 2 things here that I just don't understand:
1) Every system that I've ever worked with has a role/hierarchy matrix, defining and restricting access rights. Plus, system audit trails and output reports with date and times stamps, userid info, adjustment codes etc for any transaction made/adjusted/contrad etc. Whether that be monetary amounts, stock level adjustments etc. Is it really the case that Horizon didn't have these capabilities? They are absolute basics.
2) Surely, if these transactions were being applied/amended remotely by individuals other than the PO branch themselves, the individuals applying those system amendments must have received (documented?) instructions re the adjustments required? They weren't just random, rogue individuals applying lucky dip values?
These questions may have been answered elsewhere, and it's just that I've missed them...
why hasn't paula vennells been arrested?
wikipedia ----- In April 2015
the BBC described a confidential report that alleged that the Post Office had made 'failings'[51] with regard to accounting issues with its Horizon IT system, which were identified by sub postmasters as early as 2000.[52][53] The article claimed that an independent investigation by forensic accountants Second Sight had found that the Post Office had failed to identify the root cause of accounting shortfalls in many cases before launching court proceedings against sub postmasters.[54]
The shortfalls could have been caused by criminals using malicious software, by IT systems or by human error, the report said. An earlier article by the BBC had claimed that a confidential report contained allegations that the Post Office had refused to hand over documents that the accountants felt they needed to investigate properly, that training was not good enough, that equipment was outdated, and that power cuts and communication problems had made things worse.[55]
Ha! ...in plain sight!
Why has DPS computing, who have been showing the post office enquiry, been taken off Utube 🤔
They're still on TH-cam, but they've been demonitised. As DPS has explained, the demonetisation has to do with some apparent dispute/problem with a related Google account he has. Whilst this dispute is going on, DPS is continuing to post content. It's worth noting that other YT channels are covering the PO Inquiry, and they haven't been affected at all.
The metropolitan police lack of response to go out and arrest the post office executives and including fujitsu executives responsible for prosecuting innocent postmasters is appalling.
Maybe one of the reasons is fujitsu have been running and maintaining the police national computer systems that hold at least 30 million people of interest and people with previous convictions.
Great job channel 4 for keeping up the momentum in the fight for the post office postmasters.
Don't believe 2013 was first anyone in Post Office knew of Fujitsu secretly altering branch accounts overnight (hopefully to alleviate false balances, which clearly was not 100% effective anyway), but some did know of errors & bugs right from the start in 1999 and with-held telling sub postmasters for their defence. Some witnesses in the inquiry gave the impression they still believe Horizon flaws were not possible, and/or still believe all prosecuted were guilty - naivety or shedding guilt ?
I don't understand, isn't the Post Office a cultural identity of the United Kingdom??
The Post Office along with The Royal Mail is supposedly meant to be a national heritage iconic landmark.
So, why have the Post Office hierarchy and Chief Director Of Operations, decided to outsource the management of software operations to an overseas organisation??
Doesn't the UK have a top level IT and software operations company that could've been commissioned to handle all the technological and electronic system operations??
🤔🤔🧐🧐🧐
"Royal" the biggest scandal of all.
Because Michael Gove was put in charge of selling off the Post Office. He walked away thinking he was a great dealmaker while the financial industry were howling with laughter at him.
Because they believe in globalism and capitalism and that comes before all - even loyalty and love for fellow countrymen. Fujitsu probably gave them a low ball estimate for how much it would cost and it was cheaper than any of the quotes from any British companies.
There is a reason why we were such successful colonisers. There is an evil streak running through the veins of Englishmen.
The Post Office doesn't have the in-house expertise to design, build and maintain its own software platform, hence why it outsourced. The fact that it outsourced to an overseas organisation makes no difference. In fact, the UK office of Fujitsu was formed originally from the acquisition of a British IT company called ICL, which was subsequently rebranded to Fujitsu. The individuals that they attempted to summon from Fujitsu's IT team are all British. In summary, Fujitsu did openly internally communicate that their were issues with the platform, but they failed to deliver a secure, high integral and stable platform. The Post Office attempted to cover this up rather than threatened legal action against Fujitsu or hold them accountable to rectify these critical issues. They did neither, and ending up colluding with each other to cover this mess up.
Anyone who is in IT would never suggest any system is foolproof. How anyone at the Post Office could think their system running over almost certainly copper wire would be 100% reliable is beyond belief. "The first investigation into Horizon was published in 2009 by Computer Weekly after a year-long investigation by its reporter Rebecca Thomson. Although she left the trade publication soon afterwards, she has since returned to the story to cover the public inquiry which was established in 2020." How could the Post Office be so late to the party? Total incompetence from the Board downwards.
No executives will suffer any significant consequences. This type of thing will happen again in the future because of those lack of consequences. There are no negative incentivisations either for the executives or the organisations they work for. This type of vile and disgusting behaviour is viewed as a 'cost of doing business' and insured against.