As one person had said this Gero and 19 "Too old" 17 and 18 "Too young" First form Cell "Too weird" Second form Cell "Too ugly" Final form Cell "Perfect"
The whole arc is Toriyama being forced to compromise on interesting new ideas until he settles on Frieza 2.0 as the villain and Super Saiyan 2.0... literally.
I agree. I think a better idea would be having several androids just to give the human characters a some good fights. One Piece does a better job of this.
I like the idea that while Gero technically becomes more and more artificial yet acts/feels more human as he gets closer to his revenge/ Self Actualization , and falls victim to his pride
Honestly I'm glad the editor's intervened because when they pushed toriyama to do better he always delivered i love the other androids and cell being one of the top greatest villains some even considering him the best but this video is still a amazing idea and concept of what if this was the android saga
I would like to know what the Android Saga 100% made by Akira would be like. I think I'm one of the only people who likes the designs of 19 and 20. The Saga could delve more into the past of Red Ribbon and Doctor Gero himself, showing his reaction to discovering that Goku destroyed the army he so proudly served, his relationship with Vomi and Gevo, perhaps even more androids, made specifically to counter the abilities of each of the Z Fighters.
If you take a look at the cast closely during the OG arc, you could see hints that maybe toriyama was building up history repating itself with the z warriors dying again at the hands of the androids meaning trunks didn't change anything.
@@wingedhussar1453no it wouldn't have been awesome dude don't you get it if everybody died at the end of the Androids again dragon Ball z would have been dead
There was no original story It wasn't finished the original story is what we got. And we don't know how he would have evolved it. 16 doesn't fit any better in what little we know of 19-20 being the villains. It would have kept evolving regardless from the start point we do know
@@DSan-kl2ycI think we do have hints tho. Goku always dies in the end and also gohan becomes main character. I think it would basicly turn into future trunks tries to stop the same from happening but it all repeats itself until trunks and gohan are left
This was a really nice tribute. I only learned about all the changes to the Cell saga recently so it's neat to see a version that sticks more to what may have been originally intended!
I agree with you that Android 20 would likely absorb Android 19. But I think Toriyama would call that form Super Android 20 or Super Gero. I personally believe that considering Toriyama designed Android 13, and Dr. Gero looks like Android 13, and I'm a supporter of the theory that Android 13's design is based off a younger Dr. Gero, or perhaps another son of Dr. Gero. I think Super Android 13 is the original final form design for Dr. Gero in an unchanged Android saga. Android 20 could even absorb enough energy to become younger (basically a form change to the younger Android 13) since that's not the first or last time Toriyama used the trope of the main villain regaining their youth, King Piccolo & Moro for example.
it'd be cool if Gero actually got his research from Namek and based the hair off super saiyan. I can't imagine his hair going straight up like that in his youth heh heh
I feel like without 17 and 18 and the editor interference, toriyama definitely would've written himself into a corner here. Cuz theres no way 19 and 20 wouldve carried this whole arch by themselves
I think the Buu saga is fine except for the fact that it dragged on far longer than it needed to, and they had Gohan power boost and use a sword... only to immediately have him job.
@@renegade595 I never liked the Buu saga that much as a kid honestly. Sure it had some stuff I liked such as the idea of fusion, Dabura's stone spit that was reminiscent of older DB style figures, and I watched it all regardless because it was more DBZ content. But it's easily the weakest saga of the whole series, the Z fighters are pushed to the background even more in favor of the Saiyans and the annoying newcomers in Goten and Kid Trunks, Buu is the least compelling villain to me as well, and yes, it does actually feel pretty messy in comparison with the other seasons.
This is interesting, but I'm happy that it went the direction it did. I remember being young and the flurry of new baddies - after dealing with the same singular villian (Frieza) for so long - was so refreshing and exciting. Esp seeing Vegeta FINALLY reaching SS and dispatching an android and backing up his pride right away
@@Rude_Boi People are still allowed to criticize his work. Any creator wants to hear honest opinions. If Toriyama's editors did the same thing, would have only been Android 19 and Dr. Gero.
The problem with that is until the Cell games, Gohan has barely done anything in the saga, he never even encountered Cell until the games. In the timechamber Goku had to make Gohan remember Frieza because he had an actual connection to him and never encountered Cell at that point so he can’t feel any emotion thinking of him.
@@brandonlyon730Yeah, the lack of connections really make Gohan's rise feel cheaper than it should've been. Hell, in *3 years* of training, he didn't even learn how to go SSJ, but 1 year in the chamber and he became stronger than Vegeta and Trunks even before his special powerup that would become SSJ2. I wish Gohan got SSJ in the 3 years training and at least encountered Cell once. WIth Piccolo the first time would've been perfect
I like this! A few weeks ago i was contemplating what an android saga might have been like without Cell and drew blanks. This keeps all those elements intact. I think it also does a better job of setting up Gohan in this story. Very cool.
I like it, although you forgot to include Trunks going back to the future to defeat the androids, that would have wrapped things up nicely. Otherwise great work man, I'm excited to see what you put out next, hopefully the what if piccolo stayed evil what if will get more love because it's one of my favorites.
Neard heard of this. I heard of rumor of a different Buu Saga supposedly. Where Gohan was going to be the main protagonist from there on out and Goku retired after the whole Android/Cell Saga.But instead they butcher Gohan's character, made him lame as an adult and as usual, all the side characters are pretty irrelevant outside of Goku or Vegeta. We see the same trend in Super.
Part of me wondered what that vision would have looked like. Up until now the closest glimpse to that timeline was MasackoX what if the Ginyu force turned good cause that stunt Gero pulled (no spoilers beyond that) but even that was barely a glimpse into that timeline. So thanks for making this what if. I’m sure Akira Toriyama would be proud of you for attempting this
I've been theorizing that Android 13 was designed to be a younger and stronger Dr. Gero since they have a similar facial structure and hair style. Since Toriyama did design 13, 14 and 15 for the movie. What if those designs were originally meant to appear in the unchanged Android saga. Android 20 would be Old Gero, 13 would be Young Gero. Super 13 would be Dr. Gero's final form. He could've attained that form from absorbing Android 19 (Or maybe 14 and 15), or enough ki from earthlings or Z fighters, or maybe even Saiyan DNA since Super 13 looks like a Super Saiyan except he has Blue skin.
It would be so cool if they made original story versions like this playable in the video games. This would be really fun to play as well as a “What if Piccolo became Majin?” Like originally planned
This was really well done here. I especially loved how Gero evolved and the use of 16 in a Terminator fashion. Wonder if he would look like Android 13 or Super 13? I have been toying around with a similar concept of if Toriyama made an alternate storyline fleshing out the noncannon Movies replacing the cannon Sagas entirely. They use a lot of similar concepts they are just switched around and condensed. Would love to talk to you about it.
While its understandable why the editor told toriyama to make all the changes,i still cant get over the fact that android 20 's (Gero) first appearance involved him choking a driver so hard he squished his throat and took his head off (manga), as much as i enjoy all other androids, they just never topped that amount of brutality,19 and 20 were the intended horrific abominations Trunks told Goku about,another fun fact is that he specifically told Goku that it was going to be android 19 and 20 the ones that would appear and kill them all,atleast on the manga,only to contradict himself later on after the editor got involved and toriyama had to change everything for 17 and 18 to be *the* androids Trunks was talking about,in the anime they didnt made that mistake,thankfully.
I actually like the idea of everything cell did essentially Dr.Gero would be doing. I also think it would be like moro where he starts old and grows and ends with a powerful body thats young
I think it’d have been a lot cooler if the original vision Toriyama had included the Z fighters and kept them more relevant and part of the story instead of the series becoming hyper focused on the super saiyan forms.
I actually really liked the changes that resulted from the interference. The shifting, escalating enemies, gave a sense of desperation to the characters and came off more like great twists than as something thrown together last minute.
Yes! I've gotten really into Android 19 and 20 in recent times and I've specifically wanted to know what it would have been like had they remained the central villains of the Android Saga. I also really like your idea of 19 not only absorbing Goku's energy, but also 19 using his data to incorporate Goku's fighting style against Vegeta. And like you, I also had the idea of 19 and 20 going on to fulfill Cell's role of going from town to town, absorbing energy from citizens to continue growing stronger. Good stuff, and Rest In Peace to Akira Toriyama.
Great story what if Pickle I would say that the editorial input definitely improved but also caused other issues with the Android saga it's still my favorite saga of all Dragon Ball even if some of the issues I have with it so I like the changes that they did as they gave us gaining well-written and beloved characters like 17 and 18, Great character growth for all the characters, especially for Vegeta, Goku, piccolo, and Gohan as well as the other z fighters to a lesser extent to having the second best great villain of the series cell especially when he's in his perfect form as well as the setup seemingly to have Gohan replace Goku as the main protagonist. Rip Toriyama hopefully the franchise can continue without you into success but your input/presence will definitely be missed.
It would have been pretty dank. 19 and 20 were pretty creepy and they had the perfect weapon that would negate energy blasts. I really didn't like how the android/cell saga just cycled through villains in rather rapid succession
The only issue I have is that I don't think the Heart virus would be a factor. I thought the heart virus only existed so that Goku would fall, Vegeta would show up and show off super Saiyan. But if the arc is going to go on longer that normal one anyways, it kinda make the virus pointless. Still a cool idea and sorry if this sounds really critical, still interesting! You essentially refitted the cell arc with Gero and 19 as the main villains. Seamlessly done!
There is no way I'll see Dr. Gero taking over Cell's role for this saga and removed Android 16, 17, & 18 out of this equation. I have my vision of imagining the two Androids that are terrorizing Trunk's Future Timeline are Goku & Vegeta machine made with duplicate copies of their Saiyans in comparable of Goku Black/Zamasu in DBS Arc.
In all honesty, after the Freeza saga, the android saga made little sense to me in the great scheme of things. Like, Freeza was the most powerfull being in the universe, but then a scientist on Earth all of a sudden can create beings that are way more powerful than super sayans, just like that. If the threat came from the space, like from rogue scientist that is left over from Freeza Empire it would make way more sense. Other than that, the story has many holes from the future thing and timelines, but it was amazing when i saw for the first time.
My idea is 16 being based off Gero's son son still but later on rebelling against his dad and Gero killing his own son showing he had truly become machine. Gohan perhaps being a reason why 16 would rebel vs Gero. Mirroring the father/son differences between Goku/Gero and Gohan/16. 19 being given more of a role is great though for this.
Cool idea except for the super gero thing. Probably just me, but I couldn’t see something like that happening. Unless gero made a whole new body of himself and made it biomechanical or whatever like cell, it doesn’t make sense . Still cool to think about. And this different story means Goku never gives anyone a damn senzu lol
I always felt like Android 19 was meant for so much more Nothing looks like that without a reason Wish I could have seen what happened in the original, non fan-pressured Dragon Ball Z
I honestly belive that the original android arc by toriyama was defintly alot more original and intresting them cell saga . On the one hand it would be a very depressing saga and less action but it would mean alot more then cell saga . If anything to go by i believe the android saga would go just as exactly as the future trunks timeline does. Everyone dies and gohan and trunks are alive. Same exact timeline. It just makes sense. And in the end gohan takes out androids but this time perhaps its future trunks that dies and this makes gohan win in the end. After that maybe they find dragonballs
I can believe this interpretation. Because to me, Cell kinda came out of nowhere. He has no real backstory, other than the fact he was a creation of Dr.Gero, and absolutely no connection to Future Trunks world.
Dragon Ball the perfect mix of comedy drama and action this why it out ranks any other manga or anime everyone can enjoy it for completely different reasons because Akira Toriyama knew how to write and make characters with depth and he tried his damnedest to make sure that the translators he got were actually making a good story even if they changed it
Me personally I prefer what we got then Toriyama's original concept, because I liked 17, 18, and Cell. 🙂 Although I do like that 16 became 21 for this idea. 👍
Them adopting the style of their adversaries is a cool idea. While I like what we got, the robots being totally off the spectrum of our ki based heroes was always something I thought was tossed aside too quickly. I mean watching the history of trunks - did it really seem like simply reaching a higher power level was the secret ingredient to victory? It was more that the androids are incomprehensible within the rules of the game. They dumbed it down a bit too much and made the solution too easy.
This is actually pretty interesting and a nice left field idea. It assumes that Toriyama had fully fleshed arc, and he might or might not. Either way, I like what we got, but I'm sure I'd have enjoyed that as well.
I actually wrote a story plot for the Dragon Ball where the Saiyans and Z-fighters that exist in an alternative world which they have their own separate story of their own and crossover while the origins of the androids still follow the same storyline as such their creator made them as Alien origin that got divided hundreds of years ago and eventually came to development a much more thicker plot in the story. And P.S. I actually like Android 19 and 20 where they appear rather simply classic.
I'd prefer this story, instead of the one we got. The story from DB would've been brought full circle and Gohan raging over 16 someone he barely knew never sat well with me but his dad? Most definitely. Plus I'm a Gero fan lol
the idea of Bulma finding Dr. Geros own plans for his body makes me think, what is Bulma made androids or even made herself one to get in on the fight? Could do this even back in the Red Ribbon Army days with the first Androids.
my biggest complaint about the android saga is that android 8 who is still alive didn't get to do anything regardless of the timeline and its a waste of the character
Without the perfection known as Cell? No thanks. We got the best case scenario, trust me. That arc would have ended quickly. I still would have liked to have seen Gohan take center stage, though, as his main purpose for getting strong would be to protect the world rather having it as a part of liking the challenge. He'd be your classic superhero.
Wait, so in the original, Gohan's transformation is powered by the death of his father instead of the dismembered head of a robot? I'm gonna be honest boys, that's a lot better than what we got lol.
While I like the regular android saga, I would have liked this equally if not slightly more - assuming it got fully fleshed out and Gwro got a younger cooler form at some point kinda like Morro
A lot of people think the series didn't make sense in how a human could become almost as strong as Frieza. What if it was the GT scientist and Gero teaming up as their power scaling would make more sense at this point in time.
OK so here's my pitch: The movie starts with 17 and 18 being chased by Cell, only for the Z Fighters to side with 17 and 18 driving Cell off. 17 and 18 give a shpiel about escaping Gero's lab only to be harassed by a random bug-eyed monster. The second time machine is found and baby Cell is killed as in canon. Later the gang catches up to Cell, the fight ending with 17 and 18 betraying the Z Fighters to save their own skins against Cell. 17 reveals their true purpose to have been killing Goku all along, only to be absorbed anyways. 18 nopes out and from there events generally play out as in canon, sans the hyperbolic time chamber or other timeskips. IDK if 16/21 is there or not.
It would be cool if this story would be animated as a "What-If" storyline. Gohan becoming ssj2 after Goku's sacrifice makes more sense than Gohan crying over the 'death' of some robot. Still, I'm glad the editor made Toriyama come up with better villains, otherwise we wouldn't have Cell, one of the coolest villains ever. And let's just ignore Cell Max.
I believe Gohan was crying because he was forced out of shell and he was fed up with having to see more death than a 10 year old was used experiencing, his comfort of depending on being saved was gone, so he had to become the hero, instead of waiting for the hero, thats why he seemed more feral after transforming into SSJ2.
I feel like Android 16(21) should be the final threat. Gero's dying act(or final act before he dies) could be mixing the DNA samples from all the warriors into a new batch of blood which will be infused into Android 21. Then, much like Frankenstein, 21 rises from his chamber as the Z fighters arrive. They bear witness to the perfect being. I'm imagining a mixed design of Android 16 and Super Android 13. He has Saiyan, Namekian, and "Acrosian" abilities, and knows all of the Z fighters moves. It would be the ultimate boss.
Pretty cool, it wouldn't have been as good as the wacky nonsense we got, but it still would've been a pretty good arc if Toriyama back then told his editor "I do what I want, nerd!"
I think the original android saga could be the android 13 movie, where he is shown like absorbing all androids and becoming powerful, concept that was half scrapped but given to Cell, being him the one who will absorb all the androids but only 17/18, i mean technically is not that different to what we got, but like change Cell with Gero, for a reason Cell exists, to have a more appealing villain design
I have quite a bit of what if ideas that I hope you will like and eventually use so here goes one this particular one has a few parts to it. Part 1. What if in his youth Master Mutaito train with Korin and then Kami and and that's why he sealed King Piccolo instead of killing him. Part 2. master roshi and master shen was that trained by Master Mutaito and then when he died he then sent them to train with Korin and then Kami and yes both completed the training before going their separate ways. Part 3. Gohan and the Ox King actually completed their training before leaving and they were able to complete it the same time when they left in Canon. Part 4. If you decide to have grandpa Gohan die then Goku then gets raids by Master Roshi but Goku still goes to his house and physics and that's when he bumps into Bulma and but if grandpa Gohan lives then Goku still lives at Grandpa's Gohan's house. Part 5. No Matter What scenario happens Goku gets control over his great ape form. Part 6. The wish becomes to know what Goku is and why he was alone when his grandpa found him. Part 7. End the final part all of the Z fighters in Canon will become stronger including the non-combat versions for example Bulma, Oolong, launch, technically he is a fighter but I mean both the brunette and blonde and technically Chichi is also a fighter and launch permanently get separated in order for them to eventually get their own husbands and those who were Z fighters in Canon will also become Z fighters in in the story as well and maybe new people will become the fighters as well and everyone that was born in the meantime line will be born in both future cells and Future Trunks timelines. Well that's it for this particular what if and yes all 7 Parts are part of one story. PS. Nappa Raditz and Vegeta turn good and survive and I would love for you to bring in all of the movie characters all of the filler characters and game characters into the story.
Only one thing, there would be no hyper blood time chamber as it was a retcon also, it never existed before, it’s also part of the rewrite because why would they go train again if for another year if they already trained for 3 prior to the arc starting, were they doing nothing those 3 years
I think there's good ideas here, but alas, there's not quite the arc, thru line, or tension drawn if it ends at approximately the same time as Cell's perfection.
I wonder, considering Dr. Gero and 19 were Toriyama's orignal plans, are we to assume that both of those androids would've kept the world in such a state in the future? I understand why 17 and 18 would do so since it's only fun for them, but since Gero is a genius, why did he go rouge in the future and proceeded to wipe most of humanity? You'd think his endgame would've been world domination like King Piccolo or the Red Ribbon and not just mindless destruction.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 88 | คู่เอก "ป้อมเพชร vs อัสลามจอน"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/1ZqTVVbMgbo/mqdefault.jpg)
As one person had said this
Gero and 19 "Too old"
17 and 18 "Too young"
First form Cell "Too weird"
Second form Cell "Too ugly"
Final form Cell "Perfect"
final form Cell "too boring"
Um carthusdojo?
The whole arc is Toriyama being forced to compromise on interesting new ideas until he settles on Frieza 2.0 as the villain and Super Saiyan 2.0... literally.
I agree. I think a better idea would be having several androids just to give the human characters a some good fights. One Piece does a better job of this.
16 "to dumb"
I like the idea that while Gero technically becomes more and more artificial yet acts/feels more human as he gets closer to his revenge/ Self Actualization , and falls victim to his pride
cooked
Honestly I'm glad the editor's intervened because when they pushed toriyama to do better he always delivered i love the other androids and cell being one of the top greatest villains some even considering him the best but this video is still a amazing idea and concept of what if this was the android saga
No editors intervened in the buu saga and look what happened there
@@kevlark3184 That doesn’t negative they original commenters point. 🙄
The internet is truly a strange place many a times…
I would like to know what the Android Saga 100% made by Akira would be like. I think I'm one of the only people who likes the designs of 19 and 20. The Saga could delve more into the past of Red Ribbon and Doctor Gero himself, showing his reaction to discovering that Goku destroyed the army he so proudly served, his relationship with Vomi and Gevo, perhaps even more androids, made specifically to counter the abilities of each of the Z Fighters.
@@alligatorofcuba779of course for vomi
We wouldn’t get anything about her
Since
Android 21 wasn’t a thing at the time
@@kevlark3184 Look what happened? What? What happened? The Buu Saga was fine.
If you take a look at the cast closely during the OG arc, you could see hints that maybe toriyama was building up history repating itself with the z warriors dying again at the hands of the androids meaning trunks didn't change anything.
Tht was the whole point I though to. Which would have ben an awesome horror arc. Sucks it did not happen because his editors didn't like it
@@wingedhussar1453no it wouldn't have been awesome dude don't you get it if everybody died at the end of the Androids again dragon Ball z would have been dead
@@leosnyder5264that's just how it would've ended 🤷
@@leosnyder5264 not every story has to be end positive to be good
Bro is not cooking. Do you realize how fucked up and shitty that ending would be?
Now android 16 makes a lot more sense when you consider what the original story was meant to be.
There was no original story
It wasn't finished
the original story is what we got.
And we don't know how he would have evolved it.
16 doesn't fit any better in what little we know of 19-20 being the villains.
It would have kept evolving regardless from the start point we do know
Android 16 kind of resembles Cell in a way. Tall and well built, and mostly green. I can imagine a T800 esque figure as the final boss.
@@DSan-kl2ycI think we do have hints tho. Goku always dies in the end and also gohan becomes main character. I think it would basicly turn into future trunks tries to stop the same from happening but it all repeats itself until trunks and gohan are left
This was a really nice tribute. I only learned about all the changes to the Cell saga recently so it's neat to see a version that sticks more to what may have been originally intended!
I agree with you that Android 20 would likely absorb Android 19. But I think Toriyama would call that form Super Android 20 or Super Gero. I personally believe that considering Toriyama designed Android 13, and Dr. Gero looks like Android 13, and I'm a supporter of the theory that Android 13's design is based off a younger Dr. Gero, or perhaps another son of Dr. Gero. I think Super Android 13 is the original final form design for Dr. Gero in an unchanged Android saga. Android 20 could even absorb enough energy to become younger (basically a form change to the younger Android 13) since that's not the first or last time Toriyama used the trope of the main villain regaining their youth, King Piccolo & Moro for example.
Fuck it would be really cool to see Cell, 17, and 18 as movie characters in 13, 14, and 15's place. Call it "Dragonball Z: Perfect Android Zero".
it'd be cool if Gero actually got his research from Namek and based the hair off super saiyan. I can't imagine his hair going straight up like that in his youth heh heh
Makes sense, Toriyama loved having the fountain of youth concept.
Young Dr Gero was hip as hell due to his trucker hat!
The question is did Toriyama design the androids in the Super Android 13 movie or was it the writer for funimation?
I feel like without 17 and 18 and the editor interference, toriyama definitely would've written himself into a corner here. Cuz theres no way 19 and 20 wouldve carried this whole arch by themselves
You never know.
Torishima ( Toriyama’s editor) improved Dragon Ball by a large margin. He left after the Cell saga wrapped. And that’s why the Buu Saga is a mess.
I think the Buu saga is fine except for the fact that it dragged on far longer than it needed to, and they had Gohan power boost and use a sword... only to immediately have him job.
Buu saga is fire till vegeta’s sacrifice
Buu saga was based on Disney, that’s why it’s more “magical” than the others. Perhaps that has to do with as well
Its not a mess. You only saying that because youtubers "essayist" said so. You never said that years ago until now.
@@renegade595 I never liked the Buu saga that much as a kid honestly. Sure it had some stuff I liked such as the idea of fusion, Dabura's stone spit that was reminiscent of older DB style figures, and I watched it all regardless because it was more DBZ content. But it's easily the weakest saga of the whole series, the Z fighters are pushed to the background even more in favor of the Saiyans and the annoying newcomers in Goten and Kid Trunks, Buu is the least compelling villain to me as well, and yes, it does actually feel pretty messy in comparison with the other seasons.
This seems like a great what if idea to pay tribute to Toriyama
This is interesting, but I'm happy that it went the direction it did. I remember being young and the flurry of new baddies - after dealing with the same singular villian (Frieza) for so long - was so refreshing and exciting.
Esp seeing Vegeta FINALLY reaching SS and dispatching an android and backing up his pride right away
Always did wonder what if 19 and gero were the main villains of that arc, I can tell this is gonna be great.
They were. Trunks literally said it in the anime but tori was just a fool
@@xL0stKIlah Put some respect on the man's name.
@@Rude_Boi People are still allowed to criticize his work. Any creator wants to hear honest opinions. If Toriyama's editors did the same thing, would have only been Android 19 and Dr. Gero.
The issue is that gero is the red ribbon, goku's enemy. With cell, we have the "son" of the red ribbon taking on the son of goku
The problem with that is until the Cell games, Gohan has barely done anything in the saga, he never even encountered Cell until the games. In the timechamber Goku had to make Gohan remember Frieza because he had an actual connection to him and never encountered Cell at that point so he can’t feel any emotion thinking of him.
@@brandonlyon730Yeah, the lack of connections really make Gohan's rise feel cheaper than it should've been.
Hell, in *3 years* of training, he didn't even learn how to go SSJ, but 1 year in the chamber and he became stronger than Vegeta and Trunks even before his special powerup that would become SSJ2.
I wish Gohan got SSJ in the 3 years training and at least encountered Cell once. WIth Piccolo the first time would've been perfect
I like this! A few weeks ago i was contemplating what an android saga might have been like without Cell and drew blanks. This keeps all those elements intact. I think it also does a better job of setting up Gohan in this story. Very cool.
I like it, although you forgot to include Trunks going back to the future to defeat the androids, that would have wrapped things up nicely. Otherwise great work man, I'm excited to see what you put out next, hopefully the what if piccolo stayed evil what if will get more love because it's one of my favorites.
I realy liked this. I allways thought that Gero was such an underrated villian.
You should do one of these for the Buu Saga, because I think Toriyama originally wanted Piccolo to turn Majin and wanted to have Gohan kill Super Buu
Neard heard of this. I heard of rumor of a different Buu Saga supposedly. Where Gohan was going to be the main protagonist from there on out and Goku retired after the whole Android/Cell Saga.But instead they butcher Gohan's character, made him lame as an adult and as usual, all the side characters are pretty irrelevant outside of Goku or Vegeta. We see the same trend in Super.
Part of me wondered what that vision would have looked like. Up until now the closest glimpse to that timeline was MasackoX what if the Ginyu force turned good cause that stunt Gero pulled (no spoilers beyond that) but even that was barely a glimpse into that timeline. So thanks for making this what if. I’m sure Akira Toriyama would be proud of you for attempting this
Rip Akira Toriyama
I like what we got, but these sort of speculations are always fun.
RIP Toriyama.
😮 your speculation makes a lot of sense with what we ended up getting. great job
He will be called super gero like how 13 absorb both 14 and 15 he is just called super 13 so gero will be called super gero
Super Android 20
I've been theorizing that Android 13 was designed to be a younger and stronger Dr. Gero since they have a similar facial structure and hair style. Since Toriyama did design 13, 14 and 15 for the movie. What if those designs were originally meant to appear in the unchanged Android saga. Android 20 would be Old Gero, 13 would be Young Gero. Super 13 would be Dr. Gero's final form. He could've attained that form from absorbing Android 19 (Or maybe 14 and 15), or enough ki from earthlings or Z fighters, or maybe even Saiyan DNA since Super 13 looks like a Super Saiyan except he has Blue skin.
The fact that you used the androids absorbing people like cell ...i wounder is the goat kept that concept from his own original premises
I love the idea that these androids can learn their moves. Kind of like combining Cell's gimmick with Batman Arkham City's fight with Freeze.
It would be so cool if they made original story versions like this playable in the video games. This would be really fun to play as well as a “What if Piccolo became Majin?” Like originally planned
Well, BT3 Mods Exist so...
That was sick, I really wish this was released as like a what if in kakarot. Or even you wrote a fan fic I’d watch it.
This was really well done here. I especially loved how Gero evolved and the use of 16 in a Terminator fashion. Wonder if he would look like Android 13 or Super 13?
I have been toying around with a similar concept of if Toriyama made an alternate storyline fleshing out the noncannon Movies replacing the cannon Sagas entirely. They use a lot of similar concepts they are just switched around and condensed. Would love to talk to you about it.
While its understandable why the editor told toriyama to make all the changes,i still cant get over the fact that android 20 's (Gero) first appearance involved him choking a driver so hard he squished his throat and took his head off (manga), as much as i enjoy all other androids, they just never topped that amount of brutality,19 and 20 were the intended horrific abominations Trunks told Goku about,another fun fact is that he specifically told Goku that it was going to be android 19 and 20 the ones that would appear and kill them all,atleast on the manga,only to contradict himself later on after the editor got involved and toriyama had to change everything for 17 and 18 to be *the* androids Trunks was talking about,in the anime they didnt made that mistake,thankfully.
Definitely would’ve loved to see his original android story, the android/cell arc is definitely my favorite because of its dark undertone
I actually like the idea of everything cell did essentially Dr.Gero would be doing. I also think it would be like moro where he starts old and grows and ends with a powerful body thats young
I think it’d have been a lot cooler if the original vision Toriyama had included the Z fighters and kept them more relevant and part of the story instead of the series becoming hyper focused on the super saiyan forms.
Lol especially since it's called Dragonball Z but the Z Fighters suck and are just there.
I actually really liked the changes that resulted from the interference. The shifting, escalating enemies, gave a sense of desperation to the characters and came off more like great twists than as something thrown together last minute.
Oh my gosh. Your voice is beautiful. I think I found my favorite TH-cam voice. Subscribed. Also great video my friend.
RIP Toriyama.
Would've been interesting to see what Ascended Gero would've looked like.
Yes! I've gotten really into Android 19 and 20 in recent times and I've specifically wanted to know what it would have been like had they remained the central villains of the Android Saga. I also really like your idea of 19 not only absorbing Goku's energy, but also 19 using his data to incorporate Goku's fighting style against Vegeta. And like you, I also had the idea of 19 and 20 going on to fulfill Cell's role of going from town to town, absorbing energy from citizens to continue growing stronger. Good stuff, and Rest In Peace to Akira Toriyama.
RIP Toriyama! thank you for so many good memories!
Great story what if Pickle I would say that the editorial input definitely improved but also caused other issues with the Android saga it's still my favorite saga of all Dragon Ball even if some of the issues I have with it so I like the changes that they did as they gave us gaining well-written and beloved characters like 17 and 18, Great character growth for all the characters, especially for Vegeta, Goku, piccolo, and Gohan as well as the other z fighters to a lesser extent to having the second best great villain of the series cell especially when he's in his perfect form as well as the setup seemingly to have Gohan replace Goku as the main protagonist. Rip Toriyama hopefully the franchise can continue without you into success but your input/presence will definitely be missed.
You should make a original buu saga what if with the og ssj3 design
It would have been pretty dank. 19 and 20 were pretty creepy and they had the perfect weapon that would negate energy blasts. I really didn't like how the android/cell saga just cycled through villains in rather rapid succession
this is actually a really cool what if. I can actually picture the story going in this direction!
The only issue I have is that I don't think the Heart virus would be a factor. I thought the heart virus only existed so that Goku would fall, Vegeta would show up and show off super Saiyan.
But if the arc is going to go on longer that normal one anyways, it kinda make the virus pointless. Still a cool idea and sorry if this sounds really critical, still interesting! You essentially refitted the cell arc with Gero and 19 as the main villains. Seamlessly done!
I would have been fine with Android 18 being the ultimate android, essentially 16 and 17 serving a role similar to how Android 13 got powered up.
There is no way I'll see Dr. Gero taking over Cell's role for this saga and removed Android 16, 17, & 18 out of this equation. I have my vision of imagining the two Androids that are terrorizing Trunk's Future Timeline are Goku & Vegeta machine made with duplicate copies of their Saiyans in comparable of Goku Black/Zamasu in DBS Arc.
In all honesty, after the Freeza saga, the android saga made little sense to me in the great scheme of things. Like, Freeza was the most powerfull being in the universe, but then a scientist on Earth all of a sudden can create beings that are way more powerful than super sayans, just like that. If the threat came from the space, like from rogue scientist that is left over from Freeza Empire it would make way more sense. Other than that, the story has many holes from the future thing and timelines, but it was amazing when i saw for the first time.
I'm not even 1 minute in but THANK YOU for giving us an actual interesting original idea for a what-if.
My idea is 16 being based off Gero's son son still but later on rebelling against his dad and Gero killing his own son showing he had truly become machine. Gohan perhaps being a reason why 16 would rebel vs Gero. Mirroring the father/son differences between Goku/Gero and Gohan/16. 19 being given more of a role is great though for this.
Cool idea except for the super gero thing. Probably just me, but I couldn’t see something like that happening. Unless gero made a whole new body of himself and made it biomechanical or whatever like cell, it doesn’t make sense . Still cool to think about. And this different story means Goku never gives anyone a damn senzu lol
I'm glad that the editors pushed him, because the android saga we got was peak
I always felt like Android 19 was meant for so much more
Nothing looks like that without a reason
Wish I could have seen what happened in the original, non fan-pressured Dragon Ball Z
I honestly belive that the original android arc by toriyama was defintly alot more original and intresting them cell saga . On the one hand it would be a very depressing saga and less action but it would mean alot more then cell saga . If anything to go by i believe the android saga would go just as exactly as the future trunks timeline does. Everyone dies and gohan and trunks are alive. Same exact timeline. It just makes sense. And in the end gohan takes out androids but this time perhaps its future trunks that dies and this makes gohan win in the end. After that maybe they find dragonballs
Yes but..how will Gohan study?
I can believe this interpretation. Because to me, Cell kinda came out of nowhere. He has no real backstory, other than the fact he was a creation of Dr.Gero, and absolutely no connection to Future Trunks world.
Dragon Ball the perfect mix of comedy drama and action this why it out ranks any other manga or anime everyone can enjoy it for completely different reasons because Akira Toriyama knew how to write and make characters with depth and he tried his damnedest to make sure that the translators he got were actually making a good story even if they changed it
Me personally I prefer what we got then Toriyama's original concept, because I liked 17, 18, and Cell. 🙂 Although I do like that 16 became 21 for this idea. 👍
Them adopting the style of their adversaries is a cool idea. While I like what we got, the robots being totally off the spectrum of our ki based heroes was always something I thought was tossed aside too quickly. I mean watching the history of trunks - did it really seem like simply reaching a higher power level was the secret ingredient to victory? It was more that the androids are incomprehensible within the rules of the game.
They dumbed it down a bit too much and made the solution too easy.
This is actually pretty interesting and a nice left field idea. It assumes that Toriyama had fully fleshed arc, and he might or might not. Either way, I like what we got, but I'm sure I'd have enjoyed that as well.
I actually wrote a story plot for the Dragon Ball where the Saiyans and Z-fighters that exist in an alternative world which they have their own separate story of their own and crossover while the origins of the androids still follow the same storyline as such their creator made them as Alien origin that got divided hundreds of years ago and eventually came to development a much more thicker plot in the story.
And P.S. I actually like Android 19 and 20 where they appear rather simply classic.
This is quite good.
Man, I liked the original androids. They were so damn creepy.
I really like your idea of what the android saga could have been. I honestly think it would have been better that way.
I'd prefer this story, instead of the one we got. The story from DB would've been brought full circle and Gohan raging over 16 someone he barely knew never sat well with me but his dad? Most definitely. Plus I'm a Gero fan lol
the idea of Bulma finding Dr. Geros own plans for his body makes me think, what is Bulma made androids or even made herself one to get in on the fight? Could do this even back in the Red Ribbon Army days with the first Androids.
I can't describe the wild sense euphoric nostalgia I got, just by seeing Raging Blast 2. Goddamn I miss that game every time I think about it.
God Bless Toriyama, you shall never be forgotten you glorious basterd
Bastard*
As a big fan of Dr.Gero i like this more then what we got.
my biggest complaint about the android saga is that android 8 who is still alive didn't get to do anything regardless of the timeline and its a waste of the character
No one would listen to him
I heard that super android 13 was what the original android saga was supposed to be like.
If possible, they should make this into a sort of "what if" arc. What if Androids 19 and 20 WERE the prophesied androids?
I prefer the mystery behind Cell's introduction in the series
I feel like it would still be fun not as cool as the og but still fun.
Great tribute video for Toriyama
Without the perfection known as Cell? No thanks. We got the best case scenario, trust me. That arc would have ended quickly. I still would have liked to have seen Gohan take center stage, though, as his main purpose for getting strong would be to protect the world rather having it as a part of liking the challenge. He'd be your classic superhero.
Wait, so in the original, Gohan's transformation is powered by the death of his father instead of the dismembered head of a robot? I'm gonna be honest boys, that's a lot better than what we got lol.
While I like the regular android saga, I would have liked this equally if not slightly more - assuming it got fully fleshed out and Gwro got a younger cooler form at some point kinda like Morro
COOL CONCEPT!!!!
A lot of people think the series didn't make sense in how a human could become almost as strong as Frieza. What if it was the GT scientist and Gero teaming up as their power scaling would make more sense at this point in time.
I wonder if Cell could still become a character as a non-canon movie villain, possibly replacing or being a sequel to Android 13.
OK so here's my pitch: The movie starts with 17 and 18 being chased by Cell, only for the Z Fighters to side with 17 and 18 driving Cell off. 17 and 18 give a shpiel about escaping Gero's lab only to be harassed by a random bug-eyed monster. The second time machine is found and baby Cell is killed as in canon. Later the gang catches up to Cell, the fight ending with 17 and 18 betraying the Z Fighters to save their own skins against Cell. 17 reveals their true purpose to have been killing Goku all along, only to be absorbed anyways. 18 nopes out and from there events generally play out as in canon, sans the hyperbolic time chamber or other timeskips. IDK if 16/21 is there or not.
That's an interesting rewrite, but considering who 16 was, Gero would have to be extremely affected by his demise.
It would be cool if this story would be animated as a "What-If" storyline. Gohan becoming ssj2 after Goku's sacrifice makes more sense than Gohan crying over the 'death' of some robot. Still, I'm glad the editor made Toriyama come up with better villains, otherwise we wouldn't have Cell, one of the coolest villains ever. And let's just ignore Cell Max.
I believe Gohan was crying because he was forced out of shell and he was fed up with having to see more death than a 10 year old was used experiencing, his comfort of depending on being saved was gone, so he had to become the hero, instead of waiting for the hero, thats why he seemed more feral after transforming into SSJ2.
They need to do what-ifs like this in BT4.
You can make it yourself in Sparking Zero
I feel like Android 16(21) should be the final threat. Gero's dying act(or final act before he dies) could be mixing the DNA samples from all the warriors into a new batch of blood which will be infused into Android 21.
Then, much like Frankenstein, 21 rises from his chamber as the Z fighters arrive. They bear witness to the perfect being. I'm imagining a mixed design of Android 16 and Super Android 13. He has Saiyan, Namekian, and "Acrosian" abilities, and knows all of the Z fighters moves.
It would be the ultimate boss.
Given that Akira Toriyama wanted to let Gohan take the spotlight at around that time it makes sense how it ended.
Pretty cool, it wouldn't have been as good as the wacky nonsense we got, but it still would've been a pretty good arc if Toriyama back then told his editor "I do what I want, nerd!"
I think the original android saga could be the android 13 movie, where he is shown like absorbing all androids and becoming powerful, concept that was half scrapped but given to Cell, being him the one who will absorb all the androids but only 17/18, i mean technically is not that different to what we got, but like change Cell with Gero, for a reason Cell exists, to have a more appealing villain design
I love what if videos feom different TH-camrs 😊
it's a good thing his writing style was so impulsive, imagine how much more stressful dealing with his editors if he had everything planned well ahead
I have quite a bit of what if ideas that I hope you will like and eventually use so here goes one this particular one has a few parts to it.
Part 1. What if in his youth Master Mutaito train with Korin and then Kami and and that's why he sealed King Piccolo instead of killing him.
Part 2. master roshi and master shen was that trained by Master Mutaito and then when he died he then sent them to train with Korin and then Kami and yes both completed the training before going their separate ways.
Part 3. Gohan and the Ox King actually completed their training before leaving and they were able to complete it the same time when they left in Canon.
Part 4. If you decide to have grandpa Gohan die then Goku then gets raids by Master Roshi but Goku still goes to his house and physics and that's when he bumps into Bulma and but if grandpa Gohan lives then Goku still lives at Grandpa's Gohan's house.
Part 5. No Matter What scenario happens Goku gets control over his great ape form.
Part 6. The wish becomes to know what Goku is and why he was alone when his grandpa found him.
Part 7. End the final part all of the Z fighters in Canon will become stronger including the non-combat versions for example Bulma, Oolong, launch, technically he is a fighter but I mean both the brunette and blonde and technically Chichi is also a fighter and launch permanently get separated in order for them to eventually get their own husbands and those who were Z fighters in Canon will also become Z fighters in in the story as well and maybe new people will become the fighters as well and everyone that was born in the meantime line will be born in both future cells and Future Trunks timelines.
Well that's it for this particular what if and yes all 7 Parts are part of one story.
PS. Nappa Raditz and Vegeta turn good and survive and I would love for you to bring in all of the movie characters all of the filler characters and game characters into the story.
Only one thing, there would be no hyper blood time chamber as it was a retcon also, it never existed before, it’s also part of the rewrite because why would they go train again if for another year if they already trained for 3 prior to the arc starting, were they doing nothing those 3 years
The footage of Android 20 murking the z warriors is hilarious
Honestly, the only way I can see 19 and 20 becoming threats is if they undergo the bishonen line- with 19 becoming slimmer and 20 getting younger
Would Be Cool What If!
Yes it was for the best that it was altered because we still have the Dragon Ball series to continue enjoying because of it even after his passing.
I wish Toriyama had this story remade in the original script, it sounds so interesting and captivating. RIP Akira Toriyama
I much prefer what we ended up getting, but I do like how Yamcha is written in this, makes up for his death by the Saibamen two arcs ago
I think there's good ideas here, but alas, there's not quite the arc, thru line, or tension drawn if it ends at approximately the same time as Cell's perfection.
I have a new what if idea what if goku had magic
I wonder, considering Dr. Gero and 19 were Toriyama's orignal plans, are we to assume that both of those androids would've kept the world in such a state in the future? I understand why 17 and 18 would do so since it's only fun for them, but since Gero is a genius, why did he go rouge in the future and proceeded to wipe most of humanity? You'd think his endgame would've been world domination like King Piccolo or the Red Ribbon and not just mindless destruction.
Probably the roles would have been reversed, with 17 and 18 being very easily disposable villains.
@@treehugger3615 But the thing is that 17 and 18 woulnd't even exist in that scenario, right?
@@rickydargence5948 Probably, only an evil and ruthless 16 in the form of 21.
Damn this is good. I kind of wish you wrote dragonball.
I need this, but it's The Buu Saga Without The Story Pivot. I love The Great Saiyaman!