Why Were The Future Androids So Different?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 เม.ย. 2021
- Why Were The Future Androids So DIFFERENT from their main timeline counterparts in Dragon Ball Z? Is this due to the Butterfly Effect or something even deeper? Mike from Laughingstock Media discusses that in this video featuring the Dragon Ball Manga and anime.
Doctor Gero art by: www.theinktank.co/
LAUGHINGSTOCK CINEMA:
goo.gl/LL7Buz
INSTAGRAM:
tinyurl.com/ybs3al2l
TWITCH: tinyurl.com/ybbyao6y
Dragon Ball Super:
goo.gl/6MaOxG
Dragon Ball Super Theories:
goo.gl/arjHt8
Make sure to SUBSCRIBE & ENABLE NOTIFICATIONS to see ALL of my videos right away, when they come out! - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Don’t underestimate the impact of future Cell and Android 16. 16 gave them a mitigating influence that showed camaraderie and disinterest in pointless destruction. Cell gave an actual threat, knocking them off their power high and showing them what being stalked by a ruthless monster far too powerful to match felt like, likely souring their taste for it themselves.
I think this is a pretty accurate analysis. I definitely think 16 was probably the biggest reason why the androids never went on a killing spree. And Cell showing up was probably the second biggest.
@@Hei_Darkfire yeah you're right
@@Hei_Darkfire Yeah
I think Cell was the final straw. As we've seen with so many would-be villains over the years like Piccolo and Vegeta, what begins as a conflict between the "good guys" (Goku and co.) and the villain, is interrupted by the arrival of a new enemy who is more powerful than either side and threatens to kill them all. For Piccolo, it was Raditz and the other Saiyans, and for Vegeta it was Frieza and his soldiers. The same thing happened for 17 and 18. 17 was fighting against Piccolo in order to hunt and kill Goku, then Cell shows up and suddenly 17 and Piccolo are on the same side, working together to fight against Cell. That is a huge shift in character motivation and behavior. Even if this shift was just a last resort when they realized Cell was a threat to all of their lives, it still gave them the push they needed to start viewing Goku and his allies as THEIR allies, and therefore THEY are Goku's allies, not his enemies. Furthermore, they once identified as "villains" of some kind, they are the ultimate beings, they are the great destroyers with the power to wipe out the weak humans and defeat the Earth's greatest heroes, etc. Once Cell shows up, now HE is the villain, he is the ultimate being, he is the great destroyer. If Cell's the villain, then 17 and 18 can't be the villains anymore, that role has already been filled, so they've been replaced, the same way Piccolo and Vegeta were replaced. That fact would subtly lead them to stop thinking like villains and start thinking like heroes, Earth's last hope against the true villain, Cell. Once Cell is defeated, the shift has already taken place and their insticts wouldn't be to go back and try to terrorize Earth, that's in the past now. It's an arc that we've seen many times, but really the only character to regress into a true villain even temporarily was Vegeta himself, and it was short lived.
@Abdul Jalloh I feel like sixteen was never reactivated in the future timeline (possibly destroyed) or he deactivated himself once he learned of Goku's demise. In a programming mindset, when all conditions are met(except for loops that don't have an end scenario), the program stops running. Example below.
For i = 1 to 5
Let a = a+1
if a>0 Then
Print a
Elseif a
I imagine that with Goku dead and no one else even being close enough to challenge them they got bored and got a taste for mass murder
so in a way theyre like goku
@@darklight6921 ummn no.
@@darklight6921 people who don't understand his character would say something like this
@@saiyantopics3058 he didnt almost get his entire universe blown up? before they realized zeno was thinking of doing it anyway.
@@darklight6921 He wasn't thinking of doing it anyway not just there universe the TOP was a tournament for all universes given equal chance. Also goku wasnt intentionally wanting to blow up his own universe
16: did he say goku?
17: no he isn't here
16: but I heard him say goku
17: just focus on your birds buddy
16: aquiring birds
17: "Forget it." *Pulls out a gun, shoots*
@@TheRedHood1981 that was a tfs reference if you didn't know
Bibibi birds the word
Kill Son Goku
The word is the bird
lol I miss it so much
17: he likes birds now
I always thought that in the future Timeline, Gero stopped working on 16 earlier and didn't make 19, meaning he had more time to work on 17 and 18, making them lose their own humanity and empathy
That is precisely what happened, in the present timeline Trunks forced Gero to activate them early, and he didn't have the opportunity to play with their minds
I may be wrong but in the present timeline it is mentioned 19 helped Gero turned himself into a cyborg with the brain transplant thingy.
In the future timeline, Gero also turned himself into a cyborg so I believe 19 must have been created.
@@lxenfrance3976 is Gero being a cyborg in that timeline canon? I know we see it in filler but is that anywhere in the manga? When Trunks describes the androids killing Gero it doesn't look like it but thats hardly reliable either
@@degenerate-otaku6634 you got a point ! Not sure about the manga. As that episode was filler indeed, my whole idea may just be BS 😫
@@lxenfrance3976 Lol don't worry a lot of theories can be proven and debunked in this fandom due to the hectic writing, filler and multiple dubs
Goku died prematurely. Gero spent decades planning his revenge and said fuck it, programing them to burn the world down. They're stronger because the robots saw the Z fighters training.
I don't think they saw the z fighters training, since they didn't know about super saiyan
@@NuckChorris12345 assuming goku turned super saiyan fighting against weak adversarys such a piccolo and kid gohan
@@Shaqueefalot well it would've made sense for him to go super saiyan so he would've gotten even more used to the feeling of super saiyan/so he didn't get rusty with it, and it would've given gohan and piccolo a general sense of how far they had to go in there training by turning super saiyan
Actually the Future Android's were weaker. And Gero/19 already lost but since Goku already died, without a motive they decided to do their own thing
they didn't see the Z fighters train. ya forget that in trunks timeline the strongest form was a basic super saiyan and the androids still managed to kill a super saiyan vegeta and gohan
There's a funny exchange between 18 and her alternate evil self in XV2 if you have her as your mentor. Basically evil 18 calls her main self old, which naturally pisses her off. 😂
Ironic considering both of them are permanently 23 years old 😂😂😂
@@theshermantanker7043 I thought they did age, but very slowly?
@@A.S._Trunks I guess she’s roasting a slightly older version of herself ig
@@A.S._Trunks She aged in GT. But it's GT so take that with a grain of salt lol
@@seereebee No she didn't bruh. It was her clothes. She purposely dressed herself to make herself look older.
gero woke them up while playing NBA youngboy in the background and the rest is history
Bruh
💀⚰️🥀
Bruh I’m funkin wit this comment tho
Dr Gero just wanted them to get rid of his op
😆😆😆😆💪💪
My theory is that 16 is the ground 0 for their good side. Even though he's, at first, a bit of an outcast, they still view him as ''one of them''. and because he's steadfast on killing Goku they get curious as to what the hype is about. Apart from his need to kill Goku, he show signs of being very calm, even kind to animals. I reckon that, as well as gaining a respect for the fighters when Piccolo can hold his own to an android later on, was the start of their hesitation of killing. Which later turned to compassion.
Yes I also think that in Future Trunk's timeline since Goku died Dr. Gero felt he had no purpose but since he spent his whole life on the Androids he continued to try and have control over 17 and 18 by removing parts of their humanity and when they finally escaped this really made the 17 and 18 hate Dr. Gero and life because they are emotionally broken inside and hate that they were robbed of their free will and what they use to be so they blame the world and want to watch as they slowly make it burn against the people's free will. In the main timeline Dr. Gero had not gotten to the stage of removing their humanity so they don't have that hate against humans just Dr. Gero for taking them
@@joegastly6166 I believe he did, but if you'll recall he altered their personalities again just before he went to the city to start the attack. Gero states, in the funi dub at least, that he's happy the personality changes he made were showing. Obviously, this was a ploy to steal the remote, but I do believe he either returned some of their humanity, or he removed some of that programming that made their hatred more severe.
Guhrouuund ZEROOOO
Sure that’s a plausible theory to explain their character change but that does nothing to explain why they are also more powerful in the main timeline. It also doesn’t make sense to me. In Trunks’ timeline they beat the Z fighters and killed them on sight. In our timeline they spared them. Would knowing Android 16 for all of fifteen minutes really cause that much of a change in outcome?
Goku being alive helps
I just re-watched the Android saga recently, and didn't see a single instance of 17 or 18 killing anyone besides Gero in the "main" timeline. Vegeta was actually the one killing people during his fight with 18, she never killed anyone. Even when 18 was blowing up cars on their road trip to Goku, nobody died. They only wanted to find Goku, and they were definitely taking their time. Just found it interesting.
Lmao classic Vegeta stuff
Completely right, 17 and 18 never went out of their way to hurt anyone... Always reacted to being attacked
@@takotako808 yes but if you listen to 17 dialogue before he was absorbed he was heading into his future self direction 16 influence and being humbled by cell change them
This is correct. In fact this is exactly why 16 ingored his prime directive and intervened against Cell to allow 18 time to escape. He says it out of his own mouth that they preserved human life in their search for Goku
FUTURE ANDROID AND PAST ANDROID DIFFERENCES,
Fun fact, in Dragon Ball Z Supersonic Warriors if you complete 18's story line without dying, there's a bonus fight where the androids fight their future selves.
For real? I've only played the 2nd one
send a link?
th-cam.com/video/os9dLkLsK4A/w-d-xo.html
Wait the whole of 18 story without dying even once?
So dragon ball but the android siblings fight their shadows?
16 was such an underrated character. Dude showed up and slapped cell around.
There's a theory video out there that Dr.Gero based Android 16 off his soldier son, it explains Geros reaction and apprehensiveness to Android 17 and 18 activating Android 16. Something interesting
Correction: it's actually a custom scene produced by and for DBZ abridged. Still an interesting concept
@@Sgt.Dornan117 was just about to say, I’d only heard that from TFS. Still adds more depth to an otherwise depthless character.
@@Sgt.Dornan117 it's confirmed as being true in Fighter Z, if that's worth anything.
He’s one of my favorites and he’s the first Android to get redeemed. Always loved him when I was younger
@@JenniferPoole.33272 also the only one that got ignore when they were reviving people after the cell arc 😂 bring my boi back!
I have a theory. In Trunks timeline, when Gero found out Goku was no longer a threat, he focused on trying to make 17 and 18 more obedient, and he ended up stripping away their humanity and ability to have empathy and mercy. In the main timeline, with Goku still around, he was focused on making them more powerful, until he decided to deactivate them and build the energy absorbing android type instead.
Also, Gero's abusiveness and cruelty towards 17 and 18 may have contributed to their ruthlessness. Since he didn't deactivate them and make 19 and 20 in Trunks' timeline, they ended up being on the receiving end for a much longer period.
Yeah, that last point is something that just clicked for me when watching this video. When Trunks asked why the Androids do what they do, they say it's out of impulsive because seeing humans angers them. But in truth, they likely only hated humans because they themselves were forcefully stripped of their humanity and purpose in life, and this made them incredibly jealous. And all the animosity and resentment they built toward Dr. Gero while being experimented on likely also helped fuel that anger as well. It's honestly kind of tragic when you look at it from that angle.
The only thing that doesn't click with me regarding Gero and "the butterfly effect" is that how Trunks's (or Cell's) arrival changed Gero's plan to turn in to Android. Your theory's first part could be giving some answers to that issue. With giving a benefit of doubt, it could be Gero heard about Goku's death via Brief connections (similarly how Bulma knew where Gero's lab was even if not knowing him personally).
In my own theories I pictured in the Trunk's timeline the events of #19 and #20 played out pretty much the same as in the current timeline until #20 escapes, since that way it would cover the "changing into an android" loop hole. Your theory could give a light for new aspects.
Regardless, I need to rewatch/re-read the introduction part of 19 and 20, since for some reason I remember Gero not remembering how Goku looks, so there could be other aspects that would shake the idea of Gero following Goku related news while developing #17 and #18.
Future androids had borderline personality/narcasistic disorder due to trauma,,/ but in regular time line they where humbled by z fighters and cell for once they weren't in control
This makes the most sense
Not to mention their interactions with 16.
Getting absorbed was their Jackie Chun moment, maybe?
@@gustavju4686 as 16 wasnt even referenced in the future. No wonder they were so cold.
That’s not how borderline personality disorder and narcissistic personality disorder works....You get those from childhood invalidation/trauma, and they don’t just go away after being “humbled”. 😂 Why are people liking this stupidity?....The future androids had more sociopathic traits and tendencies, but if they truly had antisocial personality disorder (or narcissistic personality disorder) they would have never changed in the main timeline. I don’t think they have any personality disorder, they were just jerks.
I always thought they were evil because they were two young, immature, orphaned teenagers that were given enormous power that made them the fourth strongest beings in the entire universe at that time. There was really nothing else for them to do besides flex their power and fight goku; however, he was already dead. I also assumed the present androids were just as evil but since goku was alive, they finally had a purpose.
Yea LOL
Yeah with Goku dead, it denied them any kind of purpose or direction in life. They were kidnapped, turned into cyborgs by a mad scientist, denied a normal childhood, life, and even their own humanity, all for one goal: to kill Goku. When they discovered Goku was already dead, they would have been completely lost and aimless with no clue what to do with their powers. As you said, they're just immature teenagers with no parental or mentor figure in their lives aside from Gero who was responsible for kidnapping them and bossing them around, which is why they killed him the first chance they got. Once he's dead they have no one on Earth to talk to, to relate to, and they don't even have 16 around as a friend who seems more mature and at peace, to be a constant anchor for the group. It makes sense why they would commit evil acts against humans, because they lack discipline, have incredible powers, and because of their power they feel as if they aren't humans anymore and can't possibly relate to their human victims, who are inferior. All they know how to do is fight, so they attack humans until heroes appear to challenge them. First they kill the heroes, but then they're bored again, so next time they leave the heroes alive and toy with them over the course of several battles to find a sense of direction and purpose in their lives.
@@bluetoon1499 yea does make sense. It’s like wtf else can you do? If you have incredible powers and all you do is destroy shit all day? And you live forever and ever, sounds miserable
I always thought the doctor maybe changed his programming removing the kill Goku objective and really just everything I always thought android 17 and 18 escaped cause the doctor tired kill em because he no longer had a real use for them
You forgot Android 16 and Cell being very influential in their development in different ways.
16 helped them at least have something close to a morality between the two. While Cell helped knock them down a peg and give them a powerful threat to worry about.
laugtingstock media: toriyama kept this time stuff into consideration
toriyama: i forgot several characters and story
That's modern Toriyama, 20+ years ago he was probably better at remembering that stuff.
@@ilikethecokev2 Wasn't there an interview in which Toriyama was asked why baby Trunks didn't have a tail, wo which he responded that he forgot Saiyans had tails?
@@ilikethecokev2 The reason Lunch doesn't live at Kame House is that Toriyama forgot about her. If you understand the schedule that mangaka's have to keep, it becomes a bit more understandable, but yeah - he's always forgotten a lot.
@@waltlock8805
As much as I love some animes/manga, it makes me sad and angry to hear the creators are being forced to crunch basically 24/7 the moment their ideas are approved and published. It almost seems to be a trend where the quality in the first few seasons is far higher than later ones due to how refined they first needed to be. Bleach, Naruto, and Game of Thrones all suffer from this.
"A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is forever bad."
-Shigeru Miyamoto
Akira forgot
My idea was that krillin never smashed, so that's why Android 18 was so angry.
I’m done with you 😭
😂😂😂
LOL CANON
Smashed?
@@JenniferPoole.33272
How kids today say kcuf
Editor: how many times shall I use the clip of the Androids wiping out Vegeta, Piccolo, Tien, Yamcha and Krillin?
LMS: yes
I think it's a lot simpler.
In the timeline we saw they are put in their place by stronger warriors, then shown mercy and kindness on top of that.
In the timeline where everyone's dead they are drunk on power cause nobody's able to stop them.
17 & 18 going from being ruthless monsters that want to kill everyone to actually saving the universe and not only their own but every universe its the definition of character development. It's the best way to wrap up a characters storyline
"While one destroys the Earth, the other actively helps to save the Universe."
*Laughs in Freeza*
Doesn't Trunks flat out state in Z that the heart virus was basically a pandemic? He says "It's a new heart virus, you'll start hearing about it soon." That may be a dub/filler only line for all I know, but Trunks seemed to make it clear that it was not a one time virus, but something that ravaged the world.
probably a dub line. I don't remember that being in the Sub...I could be wrong
It doesn't say that in the manga either
It's your dub that added such nonsense.
There is a theory that Goku got the heart virus from Planet Yardrat's environment somewhere
@@gogetablue7905 I also thought that that was where it came from.
What I always found interesting was how different their fighting styles were. The Future androids jumped everybody and confronting them was always 2 v 1. They also used ki attacks way more. The androids in the normal timeline seemed more honorable only fighting 1v1 and I can't recall an instance of a single ki attack from 17 in Z. I know 18 did one to semi perfect Cell but that's about it.
Good call. Present 17 didn't want anyone butting in 18 and Vegeta's fight. Future 17 jumped Gohan and Trunks all the time. It wasn't just 16, their personalities were clearly different.
The androids in the main timeline despises working on team to bully their enemies. Android 17 particularly stated that so many times in the tournament of power saga and also in the manga.
Android 17's fighting style is pretty much spamming ki blasts. While Android 18 is just a pure brute with her kicks and punches.
Yea Future Android 17 and 18 fought dirty.
Great observation. The future androids I think could also be compared to Black and Zamasus fighting style in terms of how they coordinate their 2v1 assaults
17 did one to Picollo. Its weird his ki blast has no shape and u only see explosion haha. In the manga none of them blast any ki. I only see later 18 use ki when fighting Mighty Mask
The History of Trunks is one of favorite stories in all of Dragon Ball!
Future Trunks' introduction was the most bad-ass in the show imo
Android 18 is hot
Mine too it was so sad Gohan's death make true Dragonball fans emotional. The way trunks reacted was true friendship. I see why he hated the Android's so much they were horrible in that timeline. That's why he hated them so much in present timeline. But you can tell he had a change of heart because he could've easily killed present timeline 18 but he didn't he told her to run from Cell. Now the one in his timeline no mercy when he killed her you can feel his pain.
I just realized something, the 17 and 18 from Trunk's future killed the Mr. Satan and Videl from their timeline.
Good.
We don't know that for sure. We know they killed MOST humans but there was still a good chunk of populace left. Maybe the Champ was among them. He's a survivor all the way to his core.
@@marklowery8193 what videl and hercule do?
@@txmademigo8327 absolutely nothing 👌 except that one time with kid Buu
@@txmademigo8327 Save the word twice.
Anybody count how many times we saw Piccolo get killed by the Androids?
It looks like he was going for the bitch slap 😂
I wonder what post-Namek DBZ would have been like if Terminator and its' sequels never existed...
I remember 18 in GT telling 17 when she was trying to persuade him to stop attacking them that he "overcame the programming". I know GT isn't canon, but I believe that in the main timeline the two a androids overcame the programming, retaining their personality before becoming cyborgs, and the future androids were not able to overcome the programming and had personalities that Dr. Gero programmed them to have.
in trunks time line though. Android 17 and 18 tell trunks , that though they were programmed for world domination, they dont care about it. So it's not that they overcame dr. gero's programming, but more like ; after killing him. It no longer mattered what the programming was, all that was left was their destructive power and volatile desire for hate against human kind. Misanthrope.
@@juanvera7561 Yes. They don’t care about world domination, but they still have the personalities Dr. Gero wanted them to have. To hate humans and to kill.
@@juanvera7561 “It wasn’t about overcoming programming, but about overcoming programming”
???
@@juanvera7561 yeah they probably overcame it anyway. They just wanted to see the world burn without a real purpose.
Dr gero in future trunks and cells
Timeline had more time to work on them.
Android 17 and 18 weren’t hard wired and cooled over in The Future and weren’t shut off, Dr.Gero mentioned something about almost getting killed by 17 and 18 the first time but luckily shut them off, that must’ve been the first Future scenario where he failed.
Almost dying is probably what made Gero decide to turn himself into an android.
@@number3stunner118and still got casually swpiped
@@juhadexcelsior it's kinda strange that he somehow made himself weaker - but I guess he figured draining energy would balance out or be an advantage.
But there's also a pattern of the androids in DBZ getting weaker with each new addition from 16-20.
Exactly! This was said in the original Funamation Dub! Gero then goes on to say that since then their program has been modified!
@@mole646 good to know, I know I heard that.
Krillin having the hots for 18 changed the timeline. Because love is powerful.
krillin is beta
@@juhadexcelsior How is Krillen beta?
Because "love is the one thing we're capable of perceiving that transcends dimensions of time and space."
@@Soulraven2735 are you seriously asking that? Krillin was hesitant to kill a someone who, if alive, would have killed him without blinking simply because she looked pretty.
@@juhadexcelsior and he got to smash her
It's just hilarious that despite Gero's best efforts, he still got merked by his own creations
I always just figured that Gero in the Future timeline used his time differently, instead of making 19 and turning himself into 20, he used his time to weaken 17 and 18 as well as taking away their humanity to make them more obedient (which clearly failed, they still rebelled but lost any sense of their humanity).
I think you’re right about this topic. It’s like if the terminator arrives in 1984 to kill Sarah Conner but finds out she’s already dead from a robbery at the restaurant or something. He cannot self terminate so he tries to “kill all humans”
17 and 18 born into a world without goku, are born into a world where they have no purpose or meaning, violence and destruction is a common answer to such circumstances.
the timeline where goku is alive, they have a reachable and meaningful goal which gives a feeling of belonging to the world as a whole
They're teenagers, it you've ever interacted with such folks, 17/18 actions makes perfect sense
IDK teenager blondie kisses an older shaolin for instance is included?
Pretty sure teenagers don't resort to violence immediately as the meaning of life. Because teenagers are people I do imagine them to do stupid things but violence especially genocide is pretty rare for the average human warrior to do
@@ilyte1 They're quite a bit more able-bodied to commit violence/genocide than any teen. put a teenager into a nihilistic world and enable them to do just about anything that comes to mind with no consequences, that's what ur gonna get, just look at the Chinese cultural revolution lol. Even the good boy androids from the main timeline went about stealing clothes and a car without a care in the world how it affected others
@@bigjen8238 well yeah, they were already delinquents before Gero got his hands on them, so it stands to reason that that continued once they were free
Hey laughs big fan can u make a video about how much power did vegeta get form babidi dark magic please
I always thought it was a x2 boost
@@Love-we6og i always thought the same
@@Love-we6og that seems excessive, that's like the difference between SSJ and SSJ2.
_I think that it was a 1,25x or a 1,33x._
_Vegeta realized that Goku surpassed him only when Goku went SSj2 against Yakon, so SSj Goku shouldn't be stronger than SSj2 Vegeta, therefore a 2x should be way too much._
Not much
I think a big factor is that in Trunks timeline, the androids had been around for 17 years and during that time life made them angry and destructive
I mean, the actual answer is that Toriyama intended on them being the big bads so they were established as much imposing and evil, but then they were made nicer so they could eventually become allies.
Yea we needed more waifu so 18 became nice
Why the bad guys have the best music that buu music be hitting especially freiza
And cell's but the super saiyan themes were awesome too.
Falconer soundtrack goated
@@diegol5802 in moments like the aforementioned definitely, a shame the rest of the OST is filler garbage made because FUNI wouldn't allow a second without some sort of sound playing, but I can't really blame Falcouner, he did what he had to, and I have to admit that the main tracks are really good and atmospheric even if sometimes the music doesn't quite match the on screen action, but he didn't decide what tracks to play when and where so again not his fault.
Overall, while I prefer Kikuchi and Sumitomo a lot more over Falcouner I have to give props to him, he made some kickass music, definetly better than Yamamoto for me.
Style and plagiarism aside, Yamamoto's work did suffer some bad music placement in Kai, which was still an issue even when they replaced his score with part if Kikuchi's (they didn't use the full ost cause apparently they only have clear samples of some), which was implemented way better in the original DragonBall Z, check out the clip of Vegeta's final flash against Cell in Kai and Z to see what I mean, both Kai versions are serious let down compared to both original Kikuchi and Falcouner.
Perfect cell's theme hits different
Also 16 was there I think he had an influence on them I.e he was curious of the world and they subconsciously wanted to show him a good time including not necessarily being evil just punks
My theory is that in the future timeline, Gero managed to install all his evil programming and goals into the androids fully because if I remember right, there was an extra few months between when Goku got the heart virus and the androids being released. In the main timeline, Goku got the heart virus, was taken to Kame House while the others hunted down Gero, who released 17 and 18 to stop them. In the future, that didn't happen. Gero was able to completely brainwash the two, hence making them completely evil.
All the fan theories are fun, but ultimately the timeline problems are just oversights by Toriyama.
Yeah, but I don't know if this is one of them, sure it's not explicitly stated why the androids are so different from their Trunks' future selves, but it seems to be implied that 16's influence and the threat of Cell made them value life more cause in Trunks' future there was no one strong enough to face them, thus they developed a thirst fir blood.
Crazy timing when this video came out cause literally yesterday I was reviewing some of the early Android/Cell saga scenes and I was thinking to myself how or why the Androids from the future were weaker yet more aggressive than the present timeline. Nice timing and great video!
I like the story for that special
“If you want him it’s done, but sis we’d be denying ourselves weeks of fun if we kill him”~#17 well yeah they spared him, they said it
With Goku's death, Gero likely changed their programming from "kill Goku" to "conquer the world" or something.
Gero never knew about Goku's death. In the manga at least present Gero certainly didn't even know the Z fighters were getting ready for him, so the last Gero would know about Goku in the future timeline would be when he kills Freiza and Cold.
More time and adjustments were made to them in the future. Somehow it made them weaker but you know....side effects and all that. And I'm sure they killed Gero before he finished them
maybe gero though they were too dangerous and made them waeker
Nah I think they had the same strength as there counterparts it's just that the future ones always held back
I agree that they were probably just as strong. They had fewer challenges - no 16 either. In the future, they probably knew Gohan and Trunks were pretty much it as far as challengers went. But they also saw Gohan becoming stronger and having an ally - which posed a threat, so it made sense to get rid of him.
They were stronger than a super saiyan in both realities.
Or... And hear me out. Gero decided to upgrade them a little bit more in the main time line because Goku was still alive
@@ilyte1 I don't think so because Gero stopped monitoring Goku after a certain point. He had no idea about super saiyan even after years of Goku being able to do it.
May 12th around 10am. 9 kilometers southwest from south city the androids will appear.
My theory was the presence of a second Super Saiyan in Trunks forces Gero to work more on their bodies, including his own, 19 and 16, that he focused far less on any mental conditioning. Keep in mind they were just delinquents beforehand and not murderers. They frankly acted like that in the main timeline from the start.
Toriyama didn't change his mind on the villains 2 at the time editor's in chiefs told him they didn't like that teenagers were the villains right after the 1st one telling him old men couldn't be the villains cell was legit a happy accident.
no wonder he sucked after his first form
Something I’ve always wonder if future piccolo did survive and fuse with Kami then traveled back in time instead of trunks could actual fuse with his past self and how strong of a fusion would that be?
It’s possible tbh and he’d probably be on ss grade 3 trunks level post time chamber
@@kahlilbenjamin7298 now would that be piccolo in the past be before or after he also fuses with kami?
Okay, but would that take the Dragon Balls from the future? Or does a Namekian just need to be on the planet for them to be used anywhere in the timeline?
@@Super_Broly well the dragonballs in future trucks timeline would disappear anyway as soon as future piccolo and future Kami would fuse just as did in the main timeline that piccolo going to the past wouldn’t change anything of the maintime line dragonballs? So I’m not sure what you mean
@@razenhell9721 it's a violation that would merit the ewok god's intervention
Personally, I think Android 16 was a major factor in them being different. I may be forgetting the anime but 16 and Gohan didn't have much interaction but convinced Gohan to let his emotions take over and he went SSJ2. Maybe the same events happened and they opened his capsule but 16 wasn't functional in the future.
What's kind of odd is that 16 is the reason why they look for Goku in the present timeline at all. He was pretty much what kept them from just blowing stuff up immediately.
@@GeteMachine that’s true when you think about it. It’s like 16 didn’t wanna kill no humans or animals just Goku.
So in a way 16 had a good side. Kinda like Kikaider with a Gemini circuit; which is like a heart for the android
16 is also the reason gohan went ssj2 in the first place
He didn’t change his mind his editor kept telling him he didn’t like the way the villain looked
Great video, 19 and Gero were originally supposed to be the only villains but Toryamas editor didn't like the idea of an old man and a clown robot being the antagonists so he made him change it, then he didn't like the idea of "some brats" (17 and 18) being the antagonists either so cell was born.
It more simpler than that it because of 16 he teach the present timeline the value of life that why the go on a road trip to see and experience the nature as Android 16 said
Honestly I feel like this is a plot hole. Every explanation doesn’t quite work because, unless I’m mistaken, Gero said he stopped following the z fighters before they went to space. So therefore there shouldn’t be a change, not even a butterfly effect. Idk just my thoughts.
alway though it was a butterfly effect
I don't understand how Cell had frieza DNA if gero did not follow them to namek and by the time mecha frieza showed up, cell was completed.
Y’all forget that due to trunks’ time travel he was able to alert the z fighters of them early. The z fighters never showed up to geros lab originally.
This made dr gero activate 17 and 18 earlier than he wanted to. He wanted to remove more of their free will and make them more machine so that they would listen better. This means future 17 and 18 were more machine than human which is why their power levels were probably lower, dr gero also meant to make them weaker so that they would be more submissive.
Current timeline 17 and 18 are still very much organic and a good mix of machine (reinforced plating and energy cores, removal of most organs so to achieve perfect health and immortality) but their brain chemistry wasnt as fucked with and still presumably could feel emotions like remorse and sympathy, but not to the level they could before being cyborgs.
Future 17 and 18 were gero’s finished products. No remorse, no sympathy, barely any emotion and he fucked with their brains so much that they are barely human at all. But they were also tuned down and less flesh making them probably around 20% weaker than their current timeline counterparts as their android half is incapable of increasing in power
Maybe 16 was a positive influence on the current androids. 16 is my favorite dbz character.
I just chalked up the difference to Main Gero not having finished the personality programming he had planned for 18 and 17 whereas his original counterpart did, who had the necessary time to complete the reprogramming because he wasn't interrupted like Main Gero was. That, and Trunks's time-traveling could've caused a ripple effect that resulted in Gero shifting his attention elsewhere and lowering the priority level of 17's and 18's reprogramming, likely deciding that it wasn't immediately important.
Here's my fan theory as to why the Present Timeline was so different from the Original and History of Trunks (HOT) Timelines:
It all has to do with Frieza and King Cold. More specifically, Future Trunks choosing to insert himself into that battle in the Present Timeline. Goku was about to use Instant Transmission to teleport to Earth to fight, but Trunks, not knowing about that technique, jumped in instead. He should have realized that everything would work out without him since it did in his own timeline, but I guess he didn't. Anyway, when Trunks jumped in, Goku sensed his power and thought it was either Vegeta or Piccolo, so he held back, probably because he wanted one of them to be able to get their revenge, since Frieza destroyed both their races in the past. In the Original and HOT Timelines, Goku DID jump in, and, in the ensuing battle, he almost certainly would have let King Cold go into his Final Form (since Cold was probably in his Second Form when he arrived). This would have made the battle much harder for Future Goku who, despite ultimately winning, was probably exhausted and injured as a result.
In the Original and HOT Timelines, Goku dies of the heart virus six months before the Androids arrive. In the Present Timeline, he comes down with it the same day they arrive. Why the discrepancy? Future Goku, exhausted from his battle with Frieza and King Cold, would have had a weakened immunity and would have been more susceptible to the virus. Present Goku didn't seriously exert himself until his fight with Android 19, so even if the virus was present in his system for months or years beforehand, it probably needed Goku's exertion as a catalyst for attacking. Present Goku's training with Gohan and Piccolo wouldn't do it, since they were both so much weaker than him.
We find out from Cell's explanation of his origin to Piccolo that Dr. Gero had a spy robot trained on the Z Fighters even as late as the Android Saga. Gero himself had told Goku earlier that his spy robot stopped monitoring them after they left for Namek, but clearly this was a lie. In reality, Gero kept monitoring them during the three-year time skip, hoping to gather more of their cells for Cell's chamber. In the Future, Goku, being a private person not interested in fame, would probably not have wanted his death announced to the general public, and Chichi would have respected this wish. But Gero's spy robot would have found out about Goku's death from the heart virus. I think this discovery likely caused Gero to change his design of the Androids six months before their completion. He stopped trying to make them strong enough to kill Goku, since Goku was already dead. This explains why the Future Androids were weaker. He also changed their mission from one exclusively bent on revenge against Goku to one of world domination, hence programming them to eliminate people in general, instead of Goku specifically. He probably anticipated resistance from the other Z Fighters and the military, and thought that by making them more sociopathic, he could better counter that resistance. I don't think Gero wanted to destroy the entire human race, but rather to rule the world. He probably thought, incorrectly, that 17 and 18 would follow his orders and only kill whoever he ordered them to. After they killed the Z fighters and destroyed all the Earth's militaries, he would tell them to stop and then rule over everyone else. Also, since Android 16 was built EXCLUSIVELY to kill Goku, Future Gero likely abandoned working on him completely. My guess is that Androids 16 and 19 existed in the Future Timelines, but were most likely in a standby mode when 17 and 18 rebelled and killed Gero and blew up his lab. The inert bodies of 16 and 19 were probably destroyed in the process.
In conclusion, Goku's death from the heart virus six months earlier caused Gero to make 17 and 18 less strong, but more evil than their Main Timeline counterparts. The reason Goku got sick earlier than in the Present was due to him exerting himself during his fight with Frieza and King Cold, a fight which Trunks fought for him in the Present. Ironically, had Trunks not stepped in, Present Goku would have teleported to Earth and killed Frieza and Cold, just like in the Future Timelines, Then Trunks could have come to him afterward and given him the medicine. This means that Goku would have gotten sick six months before the Androids attacked that island, and Chichi would have given him the heart medication immediately. We know from the Main Timeline that Goku was only sick with the heart virus for a few days, so, other than a brief interruption in his training, he'd be fine. That is, until May 12, when the Androids attacked. Goku would have probably killed 19, and Vegeta would have stepped in and fought Dr. Gero. If Bulma still showed up when she did, and Gero escaped back to his lab and awoke the other Androids, my guess is that Goku would have been killed right then and there by 16, who he was still much weaker than. However, since these Androids were less evil, I doubt they would have killed anyone else, probably just going for joy rides and stealing clothes until Cell showed up. So, ironically, getting the heart virus actually saved Goku's life, at least until he was killed by Cell a few days later.
I like this idea but wouldn’t goku just be able to instant transmission away from android 16 and just chill on Kamis lookout anyways? Cuz that’s where he took the z fighters after waking up from the heart virus in the present timeline. And if u say android 16 would get him before he can, remember goku was able to recover tien and piccolo against semi perfect cell who was stronger than 16. Besides that I like your theory.
@@flameagar8995 Yeah good point. Goku, upon realizing that he could not beat the Androids, would probably yell for his friends to grab on and then teleport everyone to Kami's lookout. The only one who might resist would be Vegeta, who really hated accepting Goku's help. The problem here might have to do with the Androids' personalities. The Future Androids weren't just evil, they were sadistic. They purposefully kept Gohan and Trunks alive in order to have someone strong to fight so that they wouldn't get bored. The Present Androids were neither evil nor sadistic, finishing the fight with the Z Fighters in that ravine as quickly as possible, and killing no one. Android 16 also was not sadistic, meaning he probably would have tried to kill Goku as quickly as possible. Upon first seeing Goku, 16 may have immediately jumped onto him and detonated, not even giving Goku a chance to fight back or teleport away. We know from when 16 attached to Cell that even Perfect Cell could not shake 16's grasp, so Goku as Super Saiyan 1 certainly would not be able to. And remember, 16 was built by Gero EXCLUSIVELY for the purpose of killing Goku, not taking over the world like the other Androids, so, because he had no purpose other than that, I don't thin he'd have minded sacrificing his life to kill Goku.
Everyone wishes for a sibling relationship like theses two
The thumb be like:
"Oh you like the androids? Name every single one of them."
I think Dr. Gero had more time to make the androids more evil in the future timeline. In the main timeline, Dr. Gero was being chased and released the androids in a panic. I think it has entirely to do with when the androids got released. I thought it was a great theory that Dr. Gero made the androids weaker because Goku was out of the picture. That makes a lot of sense.
The trunks future 17 and 18 also never met 16 who was a major part of their morality like a big little brother they took around
This was such an eye catching thumbnail good work!
The android saga is a piece of gold for the whole show and for the anime industry
I think the "difference" was with the Trunks timeline. I have always thought that Gero altered the androids in that timeline because Goku died. They were made to stop Goku as that was his biggest threat. Basically I believe that Goku died, Gero found out (because of course he did) and delayed his plan, slightly reprogramming the androids to be less focused on a singular goal and more focused on mass mayhem since he didn't really need them to focus down a single target anymore. He also likely lowered their power to make them easier to control since at this point he would've switched them over to killing civilians instead of Goku, mass destruction instead of anti-Goku essentially. Because he delayed their awakening and was reprogramming them heavily they basically woke up and broke out, killing him and acting on their current programming of depopulation by force. In the "real" timeline he didn't do this, because Goku was alive, instead he ignored them, leaving them as he originally intended and assumed he was strong enough to kill them and did what he figured was the best idea: attacking a town to draw them out and kill them all at once. That didn't work so he ran back and woke the unaltered androids up without reducing their strength or changing their programming away from "anti-goku" mode which caused them to care far far less about civilians, treating them more like annoyances as opposed to threats or objectives. This lead them to be far more passive toward random people which made the weird road trip shit and leaving non-goku targets alive make more sense.
I think that the future androids got a patch or update that made them far more violent, but in the main timeline, they never got that cause Gero never had time to install it.
Cause he was taken off guard by the z-fighters
I remember Gero saying something about suppressing their personalities.
Basically 17 and 18 were NOT evil, and Future Gero had to suppress their free will in order to have them commit evil things, at the cost of a large portion of their power
Apparently in the future timeline, he programmed them to hate humans which is why they seem more cruel then the main timeline. Which make sense when you think about since instead continue to work on them, he instead worked on another android which we see in this timeline
nice use of flashpoint. great movie
I think they both were just as evil. They toyed with the cast like someone pulling the wings off a fly, I think Cell was the main catalyst that made them become nicer in addition to Krillin showing them remorse. They got to feel what it was like to be hunted, tormented and their life taken then feel what it's like to have someone save them despite their intentions to kill.
I been searching for Android stuff the last few days for some reason lol crazy you posted this
I think the androids became complete doing exactly what gero wanted. But to get the "androids" to do what he wanted I think he'd have to make them weaker by removing more of their human parts.
What I still want to know is why haven't Goku or the others used King Kai to contact Trunks or why haven't Goku used his 1 day free pass? Or why not use Namek Dragonballs?....the time travel stuff is great and gave me my favorite arcs but the future stuff just bugs me with all these potholes
Goku died of natural causes so he didn't get to keep his body. New namek is still super far away and would take time to get to. Piccolo being dead means kami isn't around so kami can't be used as the conduit to contact Earth.
Apparently goku lost his body because of his peaceful death but I don’t think that’s true and I feel like the writers were just too lazy.
There’s a bonus chapter in the manga showing Future Goku’s Body but I don’t know if that’s canon or not.
@@stupidmonkey8057 But don't have to go to New Namek to use the dragon balls. All they need to do is talk to them through King Kai. And I'm sure at least Gohan kept his body so he could use his 1 day pass
@@47teee_un it's explained a lil in the buu saga about the Bodies.
I think the reason the Androids are different is because in the present timeline they were programmed to kill Goku, but in the future timeline with Goku already dead they were programmed to help Dr. Gero conquer the world. That's why in the future timeline they're not as strong (bc they don't have to fight Goku) and why they're more sadistic (because they need to be made to hate humanity).
8:55.... Toriyama didn't change his mind...... He wasn't Toriyama's editor at the time, but rather the editor-in-chief of V-Jump magazine, Torishima was responsible for the change up of the villain roster of the Cell arc, having voiced his personal distaste for #19 and #20, and then later #17 and #18. As well as Cell's imperfect and semi-perfect forms.
I've always loved the twins 💕 they are cool. 18 is smoking Hot and 17 is an underrated and underutilized character/warrior
Who's to say bulma didn't make the heart medicine for goku with her know he died from it in their timeline ,knowing she's about to send trunks to the past to warn them about it , also since the androids in their timeline are leveling cities I'd say it be pretty hard to get medicine from them.
I agree
Or, the virus did come from yardrat, Goku was patient zero, and they developed a cure in the future because nobody on earth had antibodies for space virus’ and it was spreading out of control.
My thought had always been as follows.
Gero didn't need to become and android because kakarot was dead, and thats why lapis and lazuli weren't as strong.
But the dates where set to invade and begin the take over, so thats why it was the same in both timelines.
But since gero had no need to convert himself to destroy kakarot, he just sent the other two out to do so.
In the Future Trunks timeline, they were (probably) prematurely activated and kill Dr. Gero and went on a rampage.
In the main timeline, this almost happened and Dr. Gero managed to deactivate them. This event probably injured him so badly that he decided to turn himself into Android 20 (probably with the help of Android 19). After realizing how dangerous 17 and 18 could be, he planted the bomb inside them.
I can't remember where I heard this idea from but, how about a video discussing the movie vilians that are still alive in the future timeline?
I already made that video: th-cam.com/video/VWvTDvG_c-w/w-d-xo.html
@@LSMMIKE right
I’ve been wondering this for years other than “butterfly effect”
Good video.. I liked the picture of Cell at the end..
Great work
Pitch meeting Ryan 1: "Why don't the androids just kill them all like they did in the future trunks timeline?"
Pitch meeting Ryan 2: "Because then the show wouldnt be able to happen"
Pitch meeting Ryan 1: "Fair enough"
It's still crazy to imagine that both versions of the twins are stronger than Frieza at that point in time, due to data collection. That means, even without Trunks arriving and the Z Fighters taking up defense, the androids would have still stomped Frieza and King Cold, just for the fact that the twins would have wanted strong opponents to fight and the earth to conquer for themselves.
Then they both would get stomped by dabura years later when he and babidi come to try revive buu
@@MrSkullMerchant Which begs the question. Why wouldn't they be stomped by Debura in the "Goku dies time-line"?
@@rayres1074 yeah only after defeating Android 17 and 18 did dabura come in future trunks timeline
This has bothered me for over 20 years. Thanks for breaking it down #subscribed
Great video. So Toyiami kept changing his mind is the real awnser. But also I do think it's the butterfly effect. Trunk coming to the past changed everything. It seemed as though in the trunk's timeline Gero put all of his money on 17 and 18 so he made them super evil. But in the main timeline Gero had other androids so he didn't put everything into 17 and 18.
I Couldve Sworn Bulma Said She Made The Heart Virus Medicine For Trunks To Give To Goku In the Past
When you try to get revenge on someone: >:)
When you realize they died from something else: .-.
It's really because they wanted to make more fights. It's like how kid buu blew up the Earth with Goku and Vegeta there as soon as he was formed. Then afterwards he all of sudden changed his style from blowing up planets to fighting them and eventually losing
Always wondered this too. The future Androids were just plain psychopathic whereas the main timeline they're a bit more tame and in control.
Androids 19 and 20 were always the ones who attacked the city. Trunks didn’t know this because he was only and infant when it happened. 17 and 18 escaped and murdered gero in both timelines so they would be the androids trunks was familiar with and who he expected to see
That would be unlikely. How could he know about Dr. Gero, but not Android 19. Someone would have mentioned that there were multiple androids that attacked the city. Though, that would leave an outlier, it would mean that Dr. Gero never got a handle on Androids 17 and 18.
The reason Gero couldn't control 17 and 18 is because too much of their programming went to maintaining their infinite energy reactor, so he couldn't control their personalities. Gero made 17 first, and couldn't control him. He made 18 next and lowered her energy output (its a barely noticeable difference). Still couldn't control her. The Trunks timeline implies he was able to lower their power enough to completely reprogram their personalities. Hence why the future androids are weaker, but much more violent and possessing almost no human qualities
This was a great video, man! A lot of Dragon Ball fans I see try and use whacky terrible logic to justify this shows weaker aspects but you've actually phrased your argument in a way that makes a lot sense. I've never thought about it like this before.
Also, minor thing I forgot to mention before, but Gero didn't "fix" some things in the original timeline, like he had in this one. If you'll recall, Gero stated he made some changes to them "recently" in regards to their personalities. This means he could've made them more docile compared to before.
So really, Gero and 16, with a little bit of Cell.
Pretty sure 16 influenced it a bit. He was a peaceful soul with only aggression for goku and 16 wasn't around for Trunks timeline.
Good video, and good points. I always thought the future Androids killed Dr.Gero, and rampaged was because of Goku already passing away. As for the present Androids I believe it was Cell's doing since he was the one who created the timeline in the first place, after killing a future Trunks and taking his time machine.
This is a great video and really well made but I'd also add this:
Cell made them so scared to the point they had a change of heart
My own theory, and this is going off of the anime more so than the manga: When Gero releases 17 and 18 in the current timeline (after 19's death and his defeat), he states that because of their misbehavior in the past, he had to shut them down and put them in stasis. My guess is the computer had attempted to temper their rebelliousness, and even thought wasn't fully successful (they still defied and killed Gero aka 20), it did in fact pacify their behavior thus why they weren't sadistic like they were in the Future Trunks timeline and of course ultimately became good guys. Also perhaps the computer continually "upgraded" them while they were in stasis, thus explaining why they are stronger than their future counterparts.
While in the future, Gero was unsuccessful (and murdered while trying to do so) in initially trying to shut them down (which we see in the anime-only scene) which is why 19 and 20 were never seen (or perhaps didn't even exist). And since they were never shut down and put in stasis, Gero never had the chance to "fix" their behavior and of course why they are indeed weaker than their present counterparts. And when they destroyed the lab, "Future 16" was an unfortunate casualty of this which is why we never saw him either.
My own 2 cents anyways.