Dr Bunsen Honedew eat your heart out this is Dr Detail in full effect. If my Chemistry teacher had bought in car panels to explain things I bet I would have paid more attention than been busy lighting the gas taps in class! Great help and deep dive behind the basics.
Great Video! No one ever talks about prep/cleaners matching the contaminents. Now I have to figure out how to match up the prep. The video makes a very good argument for brand matching.
I cant say I'd really thought about that before. I suppose you could always test a bit of the abrasive with water. If it mixes easily then you can use an IPA type panel wipe if it doesn't use the other sort.
Makes sense now when you point it out that different based polishes need the most suitable chemical to remove it more effective. It's like different kind of chemicals desolves different kind of dirt. Especially when it comes to the SiO2 products they seems to be very dependant on a bare paint. But how is it with organic waxes and synthetic sealants? Most says it's not necessary to be useing a panel prep wipe product before applying such of a protection product. Interesting to see the difference on your findings and I will definitely look it up more. But if you have a lot of different brands of polishes and like to try out and use different ones. That's going to be an expensive thing to also by every brands panel prep wipe product too. So would be awesome to get some kind of baseline on which kind of based panel prep wipe product suits to prep certain polish carrier based the most. Or if it's a silicone in it and you may need to be useing a 2 step panel prep wipe down with 2 different based panel preps and in which order they would work great. Though if you are going to apply a full blown ceramic coating I would stay with the panel prep wipe product the manufactures has of the last polish you use before the coating is applyied. Wondering if you use a compound and polish from different brands with different base of carriers in them if you only need to be haveing a suitable panel prep wipe product for the polish or if it would be better to use the one for the compound after the cutting step? Maybe the polish takes it off but it's not certain though. So maybe you are better of when you are going to apply a coating that you use the compound and polish from the same brand. Then to make it even more complicated is that brands like Meguiars has compounds and polishes with different based carriers in them LOL. And maybe don't have a specific panel prep wipe product though I think I have seened Meguiars has something called Body Solvent here in the EU at least. WOW this can be very complicated fast and an easy as possible polishes and the panel prep wipe product and the ceramic coating from the same brand of all of the products is the easiest way to do it. Kyle on the WaxMode channel has been doing some testing with panel prep wipe products. But where more with how generally speaking they where effective to knock down LSPs and such. Hopefully he sees this and can go in depth he too as you Jon. To do the help for us viewers as you guys do! Very interesting subject you brought up Jon!
you have a great mind, because your asking all the right questions... and I dont have all the answers... but its less about having answers and more about knowing the questions because the answers simply come from testing. Ive had the pleasure of sitting with Kyle over a few drinks and talking about detailing. He has an awesome inquisitive mindset to detailing and he looks for answers by testing stuff out.. he is great.
I 100% agree with this. I believe all us enthusiasts get carried away watching these videos and wanting to try different items to get the best of what each has to offer. I've had lengthy discussions on Reddit regarding this - similar to how people say one coat of wax over another coat of wax is only one coat of wax, I like to believe most manufacturers products "re-activate" or at least compliment eachother in a way that I don't have a ton of messy layers of products, but rather one nice polymer shell so to speak. This is rooted in my assumption that a company which sells a soap & a spray wax that boast "polymer protection" are likely the same polymer packages. Now, this is only for paint protection & polishing processes; I am less triggered of pure car wash shampoos (without any polymer/nuba/gloss additives), and you can use whatever you'd like on rims/tires/interior/glass/trim so on and so forth... those do not necessarily need to be "in the family" Most of the above are why I am a huge fan of the new Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions line. Amazingly simply & straightforward system.
One way to help you find out what’s in mystery products is to have a google for the MSDS sheets for them. They can help point you in the direction of the correct prep chemicals
Hey Jon. I use the same panel wipe I would use before putting on paint. I have a very strong solvent degreaser for the sales cars, because they have been waxed with hi silicone polish. To remove any wax and fillers during the correction and compounding stage, I use a solvent based degreaser, and if I am laying down a coating, I use the silicone remover degreaser.
I did that last time almost by "default": there are too many unknowns when you start mixing up brands. Although I didn't use Gyon compound to treat the freshly painted car (there was very little correction needed), I did use the Gyon Primer ultra fine finishing polish - that does "prepare" the paint for their coating - used their Prep, and then finally their coating. While doing this it became clear that these products are really designed to be used together, it all seems to "fit", and it lead to a fantastic result - even though I was only half sure of what I was doing. In any case: if you are planning to use any of the Gyeon coatings, do use the Gyeon Primer as your last step before putting on the coating; it made the whole process a breeze, and really brought out the deep smooth color of the paint. I'm sure other manufacturers have their stuff together too, but I was really amazed how effortless the Gyeon line felt.
thanks theo.. Silica primer polisher yer thats interesting.. I have the gyeon one there. jury is still out on these product for me Im not sure if they are worth it. you cant work that gyeon primer like a normal abrasive it needs sort of gentle slow working and then buff and yes degrese with prep.. if you dont degrese it properly (not just gyeon prime but all these AIO with material in them) they can really mess up the finish and you wont know it unless you are lucky enough to have a goniophotor meter. I would rather spend the time increasing true physical gloss with the gyeon polish than the extra time spent with another product which may add visable surface gloss. I dont know though.. I actually find these silica quite usefull for quick spruce ups by hand. like I say jury is still out on them for me.
@@ForensicDetailing It's a lot of work. I went for the Gyeon ONE too BTW, because I want to "renew" my paint every spring. I don't believe in coatings that would go on for 4 years. You will see small stone chips, scratches, marring anyway, coating or not. To go back to the first thing: yes, lots & lots of degreasing. Compound. Wipe off. Wash it with hot water. Degrease the whole car with lots of Prep & 2 towels. Then do the same thing (Prep) AGAIN with 2 new towels. The Primer polish is ultra fine, its more of a juweling polish, but it does put down some Si02 as a base. You can NOT work it long. You can either leave that to dry 24hrs and then directly coat or ... remove it after a while with Prep and start coating. My car does look amazing, but it's a LOT of work.
My take on this for very sensitive sealants (like ceramic coatings): wipe down with solvent based degreaser (panel wipe style, silicone/wax/grease remover) and follow-up with IPA based degreaser (IPA or Carpro Eraser/Prep). Both degreased should have 100% VOC content to ensure no residue is left behind from the degreaser.
I was quite curious of what this "most fundamental rule in detailing" might be (ohhh please not the 2 buckets technique again)???? Must admit I didn't put the answer in comment before I finished washing but I stopped the video and thought there must be some link between using Gyeon panel prep with polish i.e. compatibility. ... so is this fundamental rule?!? I think it is far from it, a bit click-baity name. This would be kind of niche thing which not many people would ever encounter. For most guys out there starting there are mush more important things to worry about, like matching paint hardness with pad and polish combo, prepping the car in sense of cleaning and decontaminating, right technique and speed etc. However, I personally found video interesting, because I consider myself somewhere with mid-range armatures - somebody who generally knows what they are doing, but not pro who does it day in and day out. Why this would be useful to know for me - it is because I am already capable of finishing the panel to the degree of complete mirror finish. The next step is protecting it to keep it that what and here is where such nuances becomes important, especially when using ceramic coatings which needs curing etc. Yet as I said for probably 80% of "guys at home" they are far away from the point where it would start to matter to them - most probably do not know how to properly wash the car, never mind polish to any acceptable degree... how many actually use dedicated panel wipe after polishing?! Especially, when polishes used don't have fillers? In the end if they get poor results it is probably going to be due to reason I mentioned above, rather than panel wipe compatibility. Finally, I don't mean it in derogatory way - car detailing requires a lot of practices and the practice is not an easy one. The more practice the better you will become, but again from dozen of my friends who tried detailing most have abandoned it half way through the car or at best did car once and never touched it again - very few persevere. So not knowing it is ok, but the problem in question only matters to bit more advanced users which makes it niche rather than fundamental issue.
My guess is that S40 has imparted fillers in the paint surface that Gyon prep has not been able to remove and the fillers have prevented the final coating from adhering properly causing the final product to fail prematurely?
Thank You Jon. Great information and as an added bonus, the spot on my head that I keep scratching when I have issues will now heal. Recently doing minor correction on one of our old Single Stage Paint cars . I changed the Panel Wipe I was using at the time and everything starting working. Now I know. Always love learning.
Hi Jon - really enjoy the quizzes that you challenge your audience with before your big reveals ! : ) I might end up with egg on my face but I DID stop your video at 4:07 so no cheating : ) . . . I am guessing that due to the fact that the S40 's label says that it is a "No Swirl" COMPOUND that in fact it does not "finish" off the surface quite as well as the Geyon POLISH does - this is not to say that the panel didn't need compounding but when you applied the TW on TOP of the POLISH there is a better chance that you are applying that TW on top of a more finished surface albeit perhaps "filled in" with polish which will eventually disappear to reveal a surface that will ultimately need compounding to properly level the clear coat. Keep on keeping on with your entertaining and very informative videos Jon. They really ARE among the best in TH-cam land : )
4:04 paused. I think the oils and other stuff in the S40 were not fully removed, meaning the sealant couldn't fully adhere to the panel and therefor failed prematurely.
As I was watching I thought, ‘well regardless of the science, it’s because manufacturers make and test their products to compliment their own’. I, myself, do mix products, I don’t know anyone THAT loyal but I am aware they may not compliment each other completely. Good post though 👍
exactly yes.. if your trying to make say a panel wipe product for all the other abrasives you can only make an educated guess at the types on materials you might need to remove and try and make something that can accomodate this well... but do you go polar or non polar if your making a generic panel wipe?? Can a generic panel wipe ever be a good idea based on the water or solvent based requirements? not sure. these are the interesting things.
Useful video Jon. I would suggest you have two variables but you are just concentrating on one. You are suggesting that the difference in performance is down to the cleaning off of polish residue. I would add that there will be a difference in the abrasive levels of the polishes also. So if one is more abrasive than the other, surely the area polished with that one will have more micro scratches and hold onto the water longer in your run-off test?
I have a feeling this was inspired after watching Luke talk about his Optimum Clearcoat restore video and how Yvan was telling Luke how important it was to stay within the brand line. Correct?
Ive not watched that one but I do try and watch lukes stuff he is wicked guy. Yvan as well everything hes told me always either explains something I couldnt figure out or just fits with my experience of what happens he really knows his stuff. This video actually came about from other you tubers getting what I consider to be poor durability results when they test products. Seeing lots of channels knock down products which I cant knock down, with chemicals that should not knock them down. And when I recreate some of the testing they are doing I cant knock the protection products out like they do. Sometimes its masking, but when it isnt masking its prep.
It's interesting for sure, I've got some home made IPA solution, Gtechniq and some CarPro panel wipe. The IPA and Gtechniq smell alcohol based and very strong while the CarPro smells nice to the point you sort of don't mind getting it on your hands. Point is the Gtechniq will take off rattle can paint as well as waxes and so forth but I'm not sure how effective the CarPro is. My worry when using the stronger products is am I damaging parts of the car, so I'm reluctant to use them where as the CarPro feels gentle. To go with what you're saying use the product from the same family or perhaps be very careful with the strong ones.
your raising different points orange.. (good points but different) So first up.. dont worry too much about smells.. certain armomatic solvents can be used which dont smell good.. but that might be a good thing.. I think carpro is alchohol solvent based. if you have a test hood. and you test a carpro abrasive product one side and you use erase to remove it after working it. And other side you take carpro product and remove it with gtech. my guess is the results will be the same. but only test would prove it. then you could do same test but change abrasive to oily one. possible gtech might yield better results. Im guessing etc would make interesting test.. doesnt mean gtech is better but might mean its more suitable degreaser on none water based abrasives. carpro abrasives will work very very well with eraser. In the same way gyeon products will work very very well with prep. Gtech panel wipe Ive heard is great but its 75 quid for 5 litres in the UK and simply no one will pay that unless you are in the trade and can charge it back to customers.
For paint protection after washing and decontaminating would bilt hamber finis carbuba wax be better than say a sealant like sonax spray on brilliant shine detailer be better. Which would last longer? Sorry new to this
John bit complex but got the gist of it, the set up you had on the left is the same as I have used, still seems to be beading, S40 with dry and shine over.
yes I mean it will still work.. but there is a difference isnt there... so the video is about why there is a difference.. theres not much in it by the way.. maybe another hit on the S40 side and results would be identical? millions of things to consider as always steve..
Forensic Detailing Channel not disputing your research and testing John, especially as my knowledge is extremely limited. From the short while I have been doing this, your vids have been informative and helpful. I was just stating what I had done the car with. Unfortunately I don’t get the time to get fully into it, but enjoy being a weekend warrior
I think its a good idea. like even after a polish and degrease, I believe you dont get all the oils and stuff out the paintwork.. in fact Im almost certain of it. There is often a hydrophobic effect on the paintwork from all the fresh mineral oils in the pores of the paint after polishing. and you can reduce that down back to flat with some passes of surfex. Surfex is a very powerfull water misicble surfactant based degreaser that will work on oils and grease but also mix in with water based abrasive residues. just need to handy freshly polished paintwork with care so some wont like the idea of washing it this way and having to dry it.. but I like this I think it can improve protection product durability. would make a cool test really thats the only way to be sure
Hi Jon! Thanks for this amazing video. Now “keeping in the family” is what I basically got in this video. What would you recommend on using for Sonax and 3d ACA line in terms of IPAs? 3D has that new ACA term. If I do recall, there isn’t an IPA for both brands. Thank you!
Doesn't Sonax have a dedicated panel prep? I was thinking of picking up some 3D compounds/ polishes as well and was thinking the same thing. Currently I'm using a home made IPA solution to do all the panel prep
@@ForensicDetailing I have used Sonax Profile Paint prepare- Finish control with Sonax Polish £8 for 400ml it seems to work well with both Sonax and S20 Gold.
Thanks for all the replies! Yea i never knew sonax even had one haha. When in doubt, use Gyeon i guess. LOL im kidding, but so far, i''ve really liked gyeon and nanolex.
Thanks Jon, another thought provoking video! I use Koch Chemie compounds / polishes and Gtechniq panel wipe. Is this a good combo? I cannot find a Koch prep product, or am I missing something?
Yo tony. koch have a prep product I think its 25 quid for 5 litres.. slims will have it. I know nothing about it though but I will buy some for the reasons I said in this video.. it might be best to use with koch products. Is Gtechniq panel wipe ideal to use with Koch. I dont know but my guess is literally No. Gtechniq can never make a panel wipe thats ideal for use with someone elses compounds because they dont know all the materials in that compound, they could make one thats good generally speaking though. I dont use Gtechniq panel wipe because I cant afford to but Ive heard its good. a good thing to do is conduct simple side by side tests with your products and see the results.
@@ForensicDetailingwhat would it be the proper koch Chemie prep product to remove it: Sil or Fw? Slims has both, I guess for the price and size you mentioned you might mean the koch Sil? Thanks a lot! Regards! PS This is REALLY interesting
Hi Jon. I'm a bit thick so thought I should ask for your help. I'm currently using megs 80 and 83 but unsure what wipe to use; i'm not sure CP Eraser does the job. Megs do a wipe but it seems to be USA only. Any recommendations? Keep up the good work.
Could it be not that the panel wipe is the issue but in fact the polish itself? It would be interesting to see the 2 surfaces under a microscope to see if one gives a smoother finish than the other. I’ve always had a strong belief that it is mostly down to the how not so much the what.
Very interesting video. I currently only have experience with Sonax Cutmax and their Perfect Finish. Ive been sticking to a homemade IPA panel wipe solution and have never really seen a reason to buy a dedicated panel wipe product from any one particular company. I always thought that they were more or less a money grab but seeing this has me thinking that there may be some science behind it. I'll have to do some more research; do you have any tips or tricks/ rule of thumb type of advice in determining what type of panel prep would be appropriate for different polishes or compounds?
literally ask the manufacturer that you want all traces off this product removed. what is the best prep product to achieve this. They should sell one really.
John hope you're well . I always use a naptha based grease and wax remover . Will that be okay for my coatings ? I always use many different finishing polishes so it will be a bit pointless getting a specific panel wipe for each polish .
truth is I dont know if its okay for your coatings.. have a think zain about the point the video makes. Why dont I know if its ok? because I dont know what polish product you are using and I dont know exactly what panel wipe you are using. Only way to know would be to test and test of lots of times.. Other wise I would use the degreaser product or method that the manufacturer of your abrasives tells you to use.. This piece of advice can never fail.
@@ForensicDetailing thanks m8 really appreciate your humbleness . I've watched every video of yours but this is my first comment . Keep blessed good sir .
Forensic Detailing Channel Yeah I’ve found it much more forgiving to use compared to carpro eraser and leaves the paint fantastically smooth , obviously comes down to different types of solvent I guess
BH Cleanser fluid is solvent based and the only one I know to be solvent based. It has the consistency and smell of WD-40. Gyeon and Carpro eraser are alcohol based(IPA)
It's a bit confusing ..alcohol it's a solvent after all. I think they classify: hydrocarbon(cleanser fluid) and oxygenated(gyeon, eraser). BH cleanser fluid is particularly good when you're not polishing the car. It removes old wax film and traffic oil residues like no IPA counterpart.
Hi, M8...I'm across the pond. I love your video's because you are a Mad Scientist but you dont have to test these cheap "Fake Ceramic Coating Sprays" like the hack detailers in the US and that's all they test. You are way too good for that.
ok, the biggest mistake i made yesterday was that i burnt paint on the ENTIRE front bumper of f01 740li. Trying to get the dimples left from stones that hit the very soft paint/lacquer, i sanded with a 180 mm 1500 grit sander all the edges....so there, i will have to touch up and re compound, maybe sand. bummer.
we have always gone into the chemistry, if you wind back to like the very first wax making video I knew nothing of it but we waded in. 4 years later I know tiny bits of chemistry with huuuuuge basic gaps though... I can talk about some things like solvents with a bit of first hand knowledge.. when you try and make a product from ground up you pick up bits and pieces. but like I say you could ask me a basic GCSE chemistry question and I would have no clue.
Forensic Detailing Channel are you researching the science in preparation for starting a line of your own products? Will we see a Forensics Detailing foam wash, decontaminant cleaner, wax and protection? Will it be out in time for Xmas gifting? Plenty to merchandise for accessories like micro towels and for sure some clothing too.
all this turtle wax promotion on youtube(not including your chanel Jon) makes Turtle Wax very undesirable to me....and in my mind right now...i will never be buying turtle wax again..
really interesting. Im seeing a lot of videos on all the stuff. I think TW did something no company has ever done.. reached out to the YT community and its social influencers.. Invited them in for a big demo thing (which roxed). After this they have sent their new products off to like virtually every single entity to review, not just you tube literally all venues. This has literally never been done before. I suspect it will create a tidal wave of interest and sales. But maybe its too much and its going to upset people. Maybe less i think is more which regards to review, maybe they should have staggard it more? The TW people rock, and this is uncharted water for them as well, historically they have marketting different to most scene brands. if I get to meet them again I will discuss this with them because I think you might be onto something. products need to be tested and reviewed credibly but perhaps just picking less channels is the best way. Where are you seeing what you feel is heavy promotional content of the TW products by the wave Dave (you can message me if you dont want to say here)
i bet its not as effective on water based abrasive products.. It simple cannot be if its hydrocarben based. ill try and grab some and test it sounds like its sort of the same thing and the panel wipe degreaser I use.
Brewinz, I think the whole point was that there is no 'magic solution' or one that's more effective than the other, it all depends on the composite of the abrasive that's being removed.
Instead of using a prep from a car care company who make preps to work with their products, use something made for body shops that are made to work under all conditions?
There is not one which is going to be optimal under all conditions really. if such a product existed then the water based prep products would be absolete and why would companies like carpro and gyeon be using water based panel wipes. it goes back to the polar and non polar thing I think. guessing a bit was a cool point. I should reverse this test and use a hydrocabron and see if the gyeon side fails first..
Most panel preps are garbage. Problem is professionals really dont want to fully remove the fillers in there paintwork because it would expose how imperfect they polished the paint before protection application. Therefore exposing themselves for whom they really are. Most professionals don't even care really.
Im sure its true there are guys polishing with glazes to fill that dont want to smash out the filling resins with degreasers and stuff for the reason you mention. but this is really more about the subject of using the right prep format for the right pure polish format... And the point the video makes is if you use a water based product on a oily abrasives the sealant doesnt last as long from not being able to bond as well. so its kind of a simple demo of what Im saying in the video. I should really test it the other way around as well.
@@ForensicDetailing yes, i certainly see your point in the video. This video just reminded me of how many poor panel preps exist. Thanks for all you do!
![⭐️( ลอยกระทง 2024 ) Ver. แดนซ์ Remix BY [ ดีเจกิต รีมิกซ์ ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMWOLhgXUHc/mqdefault.jpg)
Dr Bunsen Honedew eat your heart out this is Dr Detail in full effect. If my Chemistry teacher had bought in car panels to explain things I bet I would have paid more attention than been busy lighting the gas taps in class!
Great help and deep dive behind the basics.
thanks will appreciate the kind words
Great Video! No one ever talks about prep/cleaners matching the contaminents. Now I have to figure out how to match up the prep. The video makes a very good argument for brand matching.
I cant say I'd really thought about that before. I suppose you could always test a bit of the abrasive with water. If it mixes easily then you can use an IPA type panel wipe if it doesn't use the other sort.
Makes sense now when you point it out that different based polishes need the most suitable chemical to remove it more effective. It's like different kind of chemicals desolves different kind of dirt. Especially when it comes to the SiO2 products they seems to be very dependant on a bare paint. But how is it with organic waxes and synthetic sealants? Most says it's not necessary to be useing a panel prep wipe product before applying such of a protection product.
Interesting to see the difference on your findings and I will definitely look it up more. But if you have a lot of different brands of polishes and like to try out and use different ones. That's going to be an expensive thing to also by every brands panel prep wipe product too. So would be awesome to get some kind of baseline on which kind of based panel prep wipe product suits to prep certain polish carrier based the most. Or if it's a silicone in it and you may need to be useing a 2 step panel prep wipe down with 2 different based panel preps and in which order they would work great. Though if you are going to apply a full blown ceramic coating I would stay with the panel prep wipe product the manufactures has of the last polish you use before the coating is applyied. Wondering if you use a compound and polish from different brands with different base of carriers in them if you only need to be haveing a suitable panel prep wipe product for the polish or if it would be better to use the one for the compound after the cutting step? Maybe the polish takes it off but it's not certain though. So maybe you are better of when you are going to apply a coating that you use the compound and polish from the same brand. Then to make it even more complicated is that brands like Meguiars has compounds and polishes with different based carriers in them LOL. And maybe don't have a specific panel prep wipe product though I think I have seened Meguiars has something called Body Solvent here in the EU at least. WOW this can be very complicated fast and an easy as possible polishes and the panel prep wipe product and the ceramic coating from the same brand of all of the products is the easiest way to do it.
Kyle on the WaxMode channel has been doing some testing with panel prep wipe products. But where more with how generally speaking they where effective to knock down LSPs and such. Hopefully he sees this and can go in depth he too as you Jon. To do the help for us viewers as you guys do!
Very interesting subject you brought up Jon!
you have a great mind, because your asking all the right questions... and I dont have all the answers... but its less about having answers and more about knowing the questions because the answers simply come from testing.
Ive had the pleasure of sitting with Kyle over a few drinks and talking about detailing. He has an awesome inquisitive mindset to detailing and he looks for answers by testing stuff out.. he is great.
Detailing rule: “keep it in the family”.
J M my friend from Alabama uses this as dating advice too
@@jeremys8360 😂
I 100% agree with this. I believe all us enthusiasts get carried away watching these videos and wanting to try different items to get the best of what each has to offer.
I've had lengthy discussions on Reddit regarding this - similar to how people say one coat of wax over another coat of wax is only one coat of wax, I like to believe most manufacturers products "re-activate" or at least compliment eachother in a way that I don't have a ton of messy layers of products, but rather one nice polymer shell so to speak. This is rooted in my assumption that a company which sells a soap & a spray wax that boast "polymer protection" are likely the same polymer packages.
Now, this is only for paint protection & polishing processes; I am less triggered of pure car wash shampoos (without any polymer/nuba/gloss additives), and you can use whatever you'd like on rims/tires/interior/glass/trim so on and so forth... those do not necessarily need to be "in the family"
Most of the above are why I am a huge fan of the new Turtle Wax Hybrid Solutions line. Amazingly simply & straightforward system.
One way to help you find out what’s in mystery products is to have a google for the MSDS sheets for them. They can help point you in the direction of the correct prep chemicals
Hey Jon.
I use the same panel wipe I would use before putting on paint. I have a very strong solvent degreaser for the sales cars, because they have been waxed with hi silicone polish. To remove any wax and fillers during the correction and compounding stage, I use a solvent based degreaser, and if I am laying down a coating, I use the silicone remover degreaser.
some sealents or whatever you want to call them have solvents in them which allow the product to bond to the pannel wether its clean or not i think
And in doing so you're sealing in the dirt. Not sure what benefit that has
I did that last time almost by "default": there are too many unknowns when you start mixing up brands. Although I didn't use Gyon compound to treat the freshly painted car (there was very little correction needed), I did use the Gyon Primer ultra fine finishing polish - that does "prepare" the paint for their coating - used their Prep, and then finally their coating. While doing this it became clear that these products are really designed to be used together, it all seems to "fit", and it lead to a fantastic result - even though I was only half sure of what I was doing. In any case: if you are planning to use any of the Gyeon coatings, do use the Gyeon Primer as your last step before putting on the coating; it made the whole process a breeze, and really brought out the deep smooth color of the paint. I'm sure other manufacturers have their stuff together too, but I was really amazed how effortless the Gyeon line felt.
thanks theo.. Silica primer polisher yer thats interesting.. I have the gyeon one there. jury is still out on these product for me Im not sure if they are worth it. you cant work that gyeon primer like a normal abrasive it needs sort of gentle slow working and then buff and yes degrese with prep.. if you dont degrese it properly (not just gyeon prime but all these AIO with material in them) they can really mess up the finish and you wont know it unless you are lucky enough to have a goniophotor meter. I would rather spend the time increasing true physical gloss with the gyeon polish than the extra time spent with another product which may add visable surface gloss. I dont know though.. I actually find these silica quite usefull for quick spruce ups by hand. like I say jury is still out on them for me.
@@ForensicDetailing It's a lot of work. I went for the Gyeon ONE too BTW, because I want to "renew" my paint every spring. I don't believe in coatings that would go on for 4 years. You will see small stone chips, scratches, marring anyway, coating or not. To go back to the first thing: yes, lots & lots of degreasing. Compound. Wipe off. Wash it with hot water. Degrease the whole car with lots of Prep & 2 towels. Then do the same thing (Prep) AGAIN with 2 new towels. The Primer polish is ultra fine, its more of a juweling polish, but it does put down some Si02 as a base. You can NOT work it long. You can either leave that to dry 24hrs and then directly coat or ... remove it after a while with Prep and start coating. My car does look amazing, but it's a LOT of work.
My take on this for very sensitive sealants (like ceramic coatings): wipe down with solvent based degreaser (panel wipe style, silicone/wax/grease remover) and follow-up with IPA based degreaser (IPA or Carpro Eraser/Prep). Both degreased should have 100% VOC content to ensure no residue is left behind from the degreaser.
John you could do with some insulation in the roof space of your garage. For this cold weather
Great video Jon. A topic that I can't say I have thought about before. It is definitely worth expanding on. Thank you
Agreed
I was quite curious of what this "most fundamental rule in detailing" might be (ohhh please not the 2 buckets technique again)???? Must admit I didn't put the answer in comment before I finished washing but I stopped the video and thought there must be some link between using Gyeon panel prep with polish i.e. compatibility.
... so is this fundamental rule?!? I think it is far from it, a bit click-baity name. This would be kind of niche thing which not many people would ever encounter. For most guys out there starting there are mush more important things to worry about, like matching paint hardness with pad and polish combo, prepping the car in sense of cleaning and decontaminating, right technique and speed etc.
However, I personally found video interesting, because I consider myself somewhere with mid-range armatures - somebody who generally knows what they are doing, but not pro who does it day in and day out. Why this would be useful to know for me - it is because I am already capable of finishing the panel to the degree of complete mirror finish. The next step is protecting it to keep it that what and here is where such nuances becomes important, especially when using ceramic coatings which needs curing etc. Yet as I said for probably 80% of "guys at home" they are far away from the point where it would start to matter to them - most probably do not know how to properly wash the car, never mind polish to any acceptable degree... how many actually use dedicated panel wipe after polishing?! Especially, when polishes used don't have fillers? In the end if they get poor results it is probably going to be due to reason I mentioned above, rather than panel wipe compatibility.
Finally, I don't mean it in derogatory way - car detailing requires a lot of practices and the practice is not an easy one. The more practice the better you will become, but again from dozen of my friends who tried detailing most have abandoned it half way through the car or at best did car once and never touched it again - very few persevere. So not knowing it is ok, but the problem in question only matters to bit more advanced users which makes it niche rather than fundamental issue.
My guess is that S40 has imparted fillers in the paint surface that Gyon prep has not been able to remove and the fillers have prevented the final coating from adhering properly causing the final product to fail prematurely?
Thank You Jon. Great information and as an added bonus, the spot on my head that I keep scratching when I have issues will now heal. Recently doing minor correction on one of our old Single Stage Paint cars . I changed the Panel Wipe I was using at the time and everything starting working. Now I know. Always love learning.
did you change to a mineral spirit based one?
@@ForensicDetailing From 'Eraser' to IPA 91% mixed @ 10:1 with Distilled. If I recall correctly.
Hi Jon - really enjoy the quizzes that you challenge your audience with before your big reveals ! : ) I might end up with egg on my face but I DID stop your video at 4:07 so no cheating : ) . . . I am guessing that due to the fact that the S40 's label says that it is a "No Swirl" COMPOUND that in fact it does not "finish" off the surface quite as well as the Geyon POLISH does - this is not to say that the panel didn't need compounding but when you applied the TW on TOP of the POLISH there is a better chance that you are applying that TW on top of a more finished surface albeit perhaps "filled in" with polish which will eventually disappear to reveal a surface that will ultimately need compounding to properly level the clear coat. Keep on keeping on with your entertaining and very informative videos Jon. They really ARE among the best in TH-cam land : )
4:04 paused. I think the oils and other stuff in the S40 were not fully removed, meaning the sealant couldn't fully adhere to the panel and therefor failed prematurely.
So wich product would you recommend for the scholl polish ? Scholl doesn't sell a panel wipe that I know of.
they have but I didn’t found any in UK, it’s called CF02 or Finish Control Spray
Agree, the chemistry within a line play together best
I suppose that answers whats you think the best prep/panel wipe product is - The most compatible one.
As I was watching I thought, ‘well regardless of the science, it’s because manufacturers make and test their products to compliment their own’. I, myself, do mix products, I don’t know anyone THAT loyal but I am aware they may not compliment each other completely.
Good post though 👍
exactly yes.. if your trying to make say a panel wipe product for all the other abrasives you can only make an educated guess at the types on materials you might need to remove and try and make something that can accomodate this well... but do you go polar or non polar if your making a generic panel wipe?? Can a generic panel wipe ever be a good idea based on the water or solvent based requirements? not sure. these are the interesting things.
Forensic Detailing Channel. Spot on. Great observation. 👍👍
Useful video Jon. I would suggest you have two variables but you are just concentrating on one. You are suggesting that the difference in performance is down to the cleaning off of polish residue. I would add that there will be a difference in the abrasive levels of the polishes also. So if one is more abrasive than the other, surely the area polished with that one will have more micro scratches and hold onto the water longer in your run-off test?
I dont think so.. but honestly I really dont know.. but I guess its possible awesome comment got me thinking...
Residues left behind by the polishes, residues that Gyeon Prep did or did not remove.
I have a feeling this was inspired after watching Luke talk about his Optimum Clearcoat restore video and how Yvan was telling Luke how important it was to stay within the brand line. Correct?
Ive not watched that one but I do try and watch lukes stuff he is wicked guy. Yvan as well everything hes told me always either explains something I couldnt figure out or just fits with my experience of what happens he really knows his stuff. This video actually came about from other you tubers getting what I consider to be poor durability results when they test products. Seeing lots of channels knock down products which I cant knock down, with chemicals that should not knock them down. And when I recreate some of the testing they are doing I cant knock the protection products out like they do. Sometimes its masking, but when it isnt masking its prep.
Forensic Detailing Channel well you do great work Jon. I enjoy all your content on both of your channels.
So after you machine polish with an abrasive, do you need to panel wipe it before you add your protection? Ceramic,wax, or sealant? That’s John
ofcourse the water is gonna falloff the pannel is 90 degree to the ground LOL
And yet, one falls off considerably quicker..
Big brain
@@shona5512 hes got an air blower riged to blow on 1 side :D LOL some magnets too
So where do i begin if I’ve just purchased a car and have no idea of what’s gone before?
Right panel (the one is performing better) is cleaner. Like washed by some shampoo or sth like that...
s40 might have some gloss enhancers that prevented a good bond even with an IPA wipedown or maybe it just doesn't wipe off easy.
It's interesting for sure, I've got some home made IPA solution, Gtechniq and some CarPro panel wipe. The IPA and Gtechniq smell alcohol based and very strong while the CarPro smells nice to the point you sort of don't mind getting it on your hands. Point is the Gtechniq will take off rattle can paint as well as waxes and so forth but I'm not sure how effective the CarPro is. My worry when using the stronger products is am I damaging parts of the car, so I'm reluctant to use them where as the CarPro feels gentle. To go with what you're saying use the product from the same family or perhaps be very careful with the strong ones.
your raising different points orange.. (good points but different)
So first up.. dont worry too much about smells.. certain armomatic solvents can be used which dont smell good.. but that might be a good thing.. I think carpro is alchohol solvent based.
if you have a test hood. and you test a carpro abrasive product one side and you use erase to remove it after working it. And other side you take carpro product and remove it with gtech. my guess is the results will be the same. but only test would prove it. then you could do same test but change abrasive to oily one. possible gtech might yield better results. Im guessing etc would make interesting test.. doesnt mean gtech is better but might mean its more suitable degreaser on none water based abrasives.
carpro abrasives will work very very well with eraser. In the same way gyeon products will work very very well with prep. Gtech panel wipe Ive heard is great but its 75 quid for 5 litres in the UK and simply no one will pay that unless you are in the trade and can charge it back to customers.
Very informative. Makes perfect sense. Keep em coming John .
For paint protection after washing and decontaminating would bilt hamber finis carbuba wax be better than say a sealant like sonax spray on brilliant shine detailer be better. Which would last longer? Sorry new to this
John bit complex but got the gist of it, the set up you had on the left is the same as I have used, still seems to be beading, S40 with dry and shine over.
yes I mean it will still work.. but there is a difference isnt there... so the video is about why there is a difference.. theres not much in it by the way.. maybe another hit on the S40 side and results would be identical? millions of things to consider as always steve..
Forensic Detailing Channel not disputing your research and testing John, especially as my knowledge is extremely limited. From the short while I have been doing this, your vids have been informative and helpful. I was just stating what I had done the car with. Unfortunately I don’t get the time to get fully into it, but enjoy being a weekend warrior
Thoughts on negative effects of usung both panel prep types, other than too much handling of the paint post polishing.
Wondering Jon, what is your opinion about using Surfex HD as a panel wipe, after polishing. Say in 5% dilution.
I think its a good idea. like even after a polish and degrease, I believe you dont get all the oils and stuff out the paintwork.. in fact Im almost certain of it. There is often a hydrophobic effect on the paintwork from all the fresh mineral oils in the pores of the paint after polishing. and you can reduce that down back to flat with some passes of surfex. Surfex is a very powerfull water misicble surfactant based degreaser that will work on oils and grease but also mix in with water based abrasive residues. just need to handy freshly polished paintwork with care so some wont like the idea of washing it this way and having to dry it.. but I like this I think it can improve protection product durability. would make a cool test really thats the only way to be sure
Forensic Detailing Channel I’d add to this by using an IPA-based prep product as a final step to remove any residue from the APC.
Hi Jon! Thanks for this amazing video. Now “keeping in the family” is what I basically got in this video. What would you recommend on using for Sonax and 3d ACA line in terms of IPAs? 3D has that new ACA term. If I do recall, there isn’t an IPA for both brands. Thank you!
Doesn't Sonax have a dedicated panel prep? I was thinking of picking up some 3D compounds/ polishes as well and was thinking the same thing. Currently I'm using a home made IPA solution to do all the panel prep
Ive not used any £d products sorry awwstin.. but if in doubt use the panel wipe from that company.
@@ForensicDetailing I have used Sonax Profile Paint prepare- Finish control with Sonax Polish £8 for 400ml it seems to work well with both Sonax and S20 Gold.
Thanks for all the replies! Yea i never knew sonax even had one haha. When in doubt, use Gyeon i guess. LOL im kidding, but so far, i''ve really liked gyeon and nanolex.
Hi mate, do you know of anything that will remove glass scratches or reduce them? Great videos as always sir
I dont sorry. you wont really remove scratches from glass. but lots say ceriglass and rayon pads.. carpro UK sell it all.
Thanks Jon, another thought provoking video!
I use Koch Chemie compounds / polishes and Gtechniq panel wipe. Is this a good combo?
I cannot find a Koch prep product, or am I missing something?
Yo tony. koch have a prep product I think its 25 quid for 5 litres.. slims will have it. I know nothing about it though but I will buy some for the reasons I said in this video.. it might be best to use with koch products. Is Gtechniq panel wipe ideal to use with Koch. I dont know but my guess is literally No. Gtechniq can never make a panel wipe thats ideal for use with someone elses compounds because they dont know all the materials in that compound, they could make one thats good generally speaking though. I dont use Gtechniq panel wipe because I cant afford to but Ive heard its good. a good thing to do is conduct simple side by side tests with your products and see the results.
@@ForensicDetailingwhat would it be the proper koch Chemie prep product to remove it: Sil or Fw? Slims has both, I guess for the price and size you mentioned you might mean the koch Sil? Thanks a lot! Regards!
PS This is REALLY interesting
@@Saluddineroyamor-u1v I think its Sil. but ive actually sent an email to koch to ask because im not sure either.
@@ForensicDetailing yeah, you are right. Proper product from Koch Chemie is Sil. Remember to dilute it corretly.
Koch Chemie SIL smells like IPA and is based on IPA :)
Hi Jon. I'm a bit thick so thought I should ask for your help. I'm currently using megs 80 and 83 but unsure what wipe to use; i'm not sure CP Eraser does the job. Megs do a wipe but it seems to be USA only. Any recommendations? Keep up the good work.
Im going to try Koch Chemie SIL next. I actually think eraser and gyeon prep are good though. A lot of people dont but I like them.
I would say how good the prep and the quality of the polish was.
Could it be not that the panel wipe is the issue but in fact the polish itself? It would be interesting to see the 2 surfaces under a microscope to see if one gives a smoother finish than the other. I’ve always had a strong belief that it is mostly down to the how not so much the what.
its the combination of both I think...
Very interesting video. I currently only have experience with Sonax Cutmax and their Perfect Finish. Ive been sticking to a homemade IPA panel wipe solution and have never really seen a reason to buy a dedicated panel wipe product from any one particular company. I always thought that they were more or less a money grab but seeing this has me thinking that there may be some science behind it. I'll have to do some more research; do you have any tips or tricks/ rule of thumb type of advice in determining what type of panel prep would be appropriate for different polishes or compounds?
literally ask the manufacturer that you want all traces off this product removed. what is the best prep product to achieve this. They should sell one really.
@@ForensicDetailing Just sent Sonax and 3D an email asking them what they reccomend; will update if I get a response
John hope you're well . I always use a naptha based grease and wax remover . Will that be okay for my coatings ? I always use many different finishing polishes so it will be a bit pointless getting a specific panel wipe for each polish .
truth is I dont know if its okay for your coatings.. have a think zain about the point the video makes. Why dont I know if its ok? because I dont know what polish product you are using and I dont know exactly what panel wipe you are using. Only way to know would be to test and test of lots of times.. Other wise I would use the degreaser product or method that the manufacturer of your abrasives tells you to use.. This piece of advice can never fail.
@@ForensicDetailing thanks m8 really appreciate your humbleness . I've watched every video of yours but this is my first comment . Keep blessed good sir .
@@zainessop4655 keep them coming and god bless you for watching zain..
Use the same product line for the polishing steps... Qs is what IPA should be used on scholl? 🤯
I wouldnt use IPA and water.. I would use what scholl recomend they probably have a product or a suggestion.
Is true that the same product lines work better together ?
you could only answer that question properly if you have used them all... but the answer through logical alone is yes.
If there was one spray wax for weekend warrior with best gloss and protection what would it be ?
I use the new seal and shine sealant underneath with turtle wax ice spray wax on top
Couldn't agree more, Jon. Keep up the good work.
Never thought of it this way but it makes sense,
Have you ever used bilt hamber cleanser fluid ?
yes its hydrocarbon.. very good but I cant afford to use it... I think BH might be working on new cleanser product not sure though.
Forensic Detailing Channel Yeah I’ve found it much more forgiving to use compared to carpro eraser and leaves the paint fantastically smooth , obviously comes down to different types of solvent I guess
BH Cleanser fluid is solvent based and the only one I know to be solvent based. It has the consistency and smell of WD-40. Gyeon and Carpro eraser are alcohol based(IPA)
It's a bit confusing ..alcohol it's a solvent after all. I think they classify: hydrocarbon(cleanser fluid) and oxygenated(gyeon, eraser). BH cleanser fluid is particularly good when you're not polishing the car. It removes old wax film and traffic oil residues like no IPA counterpart.
Racing CARS leaves a nice finish afterwards aswell, if it didn’t remove wax and glazes I’d use it as a quick detailer lol
Hi, M8...I'm across the pond. I love your video's because you are a Mad Scientist but you dont have to test these cheap "Fake Ceramic Coating Sprays" like the hack detailers in the US and that's all they test. You are way too good for that.
I love the raw cut videos
Eraser couldnt remove scholl polishing oils efectievly?
Yes....i found it......
ok, the biggest mistake i made yesterday was that i burnt paint on the ENTIRE front bumper of f01 740li. Trying to get the dimples left from stones that hit the very soft paint/lacquer, i sanded with a 180 mm 1500 grit sander all the edges....so there, i will have to touch up and re compound, maybe sand. bummer.
Wow! You are very good.
Time to drop the beanie hat and put on the lab coat - he’s gone full chemistry teacher. It’s not magic, it’s science or is it wizardry?
we have always gone into the chemistry, if you wind back to like the very first wax making video I knew nothing of it but we waded in. 4 years later I know tiny bits of chemistry with huuuuuge basic gaps though... I can talk about some things like solvents with a bit of first hand knowledge.. when you try and make a product from ground up you pick up bits and pieces. but like I say you could ask me a basic GCSE chemistry question and I would have no clue.
Forensic Detailing Channel are you researching the science in preparation for starting a line of your own products? Will we see a Forensics Detailing foam wash, decontaminant cleaner, wax and protection? Will it be out in time for Xmas gifting? Plenty to merchandise for accessories like micro towels and for sure some clothing too.
@@adamhenderson4318 no FDC product line planned :)
Good video as always. Keep it up..👍
all this turtle wax promotion on youtube(not including your chanel Jon) makes Turtle Wax very undesirable to me....and in my mind right now...i will never be buying turtle wax again..
I agree wholeheartedly. Flooding TH-cam will not make me buy them. In fact, to me it makes me feel the exact opposite.
@@haroldchipman7696 True , I bought BH autowash cause john suggested it and it was amazing , but it's not a mainstream product
really interesting. Im seeing a lot of videos on all the stuff. I think TW did something no company has ever done.. reached out to the YT community and its social influencers.. Invited them in for a big demo thing (which roxed). After this they have sent their new products off to like virtually every single entity to review, not just you tube literally all venues. This has literally never been done before. I suspect it will create a tidal wave of interest and sales. But maybe its too much and its going to upset people. Maybe less i think is more which regards to review, maybe they should have staggard it more? The TW people rock, and this is uncharted water for them as well, historically they have marketting different to most scene brands. if I get to meet them again I will discuss this with them because I think you might be onto something. products need to be tested and reviewed credibly but perhaps just picking less channels is the best way. Where are you seeing what you feel is heavy promotional content of the TW products by the wave Dave (you can message me if you dont want to say here)
@@dimmacommunication BH IS CLASS LEADING!
@@DavidC1 Luckily It's at a good price here , 12£ shipped with Amazon
If I polish and no panel wipe.......????
then you leave trace elements of the carrier on the panel which can lower durability of protection products.
Spot on Jon !! Thank you!
Kleanstrip Prep All is far more effective than Gyeon Prep. It’s also much easier to use than Gyeon Prep and affordable.
i bet its not as effective on water based abrasive products.. It simple cannot be if its hydrocarben based. ill try and grab some and test it sounds like its sort of the same thing and the panel wipe degreaser I use.
Brewinz, I think the whole point was that there is no 'magic solution' or one that's more effective than the other, it all depends on the composite of the abrasive that's being removed.
Instead of using a prep from a car care company who make preps to work with their products, use something made for body shops that are made to work under all conditions?
There is not one which is going to be optimal under all conditions really. if such a product existed then the water based prep products would be absolete and why would companies like carpro and gyeon be using water based panel wipes. it goes back to the polar and non polar thing I think. guessing a bit was a cool point. I should reverse this test and use a hydrocabron and see if the gyeon side fails first..
I know you have if I don't stuck to the video , but wich kind of heating do you have in the garage ? is it insulated ?
10 pound mickey mouse electric air heater.. I dont tend to use it though..
@@ForensicDetailing Isn't it a problem for the detailing products ? don't they suffer cold ?
If unsure would you recommend a belt a braces approach work, as in hit it with both solvent and water base cleaners to cover both bases? Cheers.
@@dimmacommunication My experience is, as long as they don't freeze they are fine.
it can play a roll.. if its cold some of them wont vaporize but was about 8-10 deg in there today so just about ok.. but 10-20 deg is better
Know the respective systems!
Use one brand of products
Its all in a panel wipe
Thank you
Great info!!!
Good info FDC
Sounds like you ate a chemistry book for breakfast Jon. You probably confused the F out of most of us.
You need to sort those eyes out - giving me nightmares.
He stares into yer soul
sorry :) I cant help it.. I see it in the edit as well but I just cant stop it now. I need CGI or something.
Gracias!
compatability issue
like your county beanie, great company :)
Most panel preps are garbage. Problem is professionals really dont want to fully remove the fillers in there paintwork because it would expose how imperfect they polished the paint before protection application. Therefore exposing themselves for whom they really are. Most professionals don't even care really.
Im sure its true there are guys polishing with glazes to fill that dont want to smash out the filling resins with degreasers and stuff for the reason you mention. but this is really more about the subject of using the right prep format for the right pure polish format... And the point the video makes is if you use a water based product on a oily abrasives the sealant doesnt last as long from not being able to bond as well. so its kind of a simple demo of what Im saying in the video. I should really test it the other way around as well.
@@ForensicDetailing yes, i certainly see your point in the video. This video just reminded me of how many poor panel preps exist. Thanks for all you do!
Really 🤣
❌❌❌ o0oo yes
Honestly, I don’t see any difference.
mind blown
Great topic, but I had to stop watching as your camera work is crap!! Please take more care with your cinematography.