Again, incredible useful comparison! Thank you! Now when the G9ii arrives, with the better autofocus than the GH6 it seems that this is a great choice also in comparison to the S1 or S5ii regarding noise! Liebe Grüße!
Yes I own Sony a7sIII and a7IV. Juat bought Gh6 and 10-25 f1.7. With this combo, I hardly need to go over iso 3200 and makes it pretty compareble in low light with a7IV paired with f2.8 zoom lens. m4/3 is not an issue for low light, it is the lens that need to be fast. F2.8 zoom on m4/3 just not enough for low light. They saved m4/3 by produce 10-25 25-50 f1.7 lens in my opinion. They should make more f1.7 zoom lens in the future.
It's exciting that you got the GH6!!! I really liked this review and I especially like your point about how the noise on the GH6, at ISO 6400, looks "organic, almost like film grain". I think that's a very good point, and I know some people even ADD film grain in post production (to other cameras that have "clean" footage) but I agree that when it's organic-looking like this it's not too bad. The only concerns I have are when the TH-cam compression adds more noise to the noise, then that combination shows the artifacts.
Thank you for your comment! Yes, the noise is very pleasing on the GH6. It is also superb on the Panasonic fullframe cameras, but the MFT cameras lacked that tiny bit of quality, that the GH6 can now deliver. You can never avoid noise and the cameras noise reduction is just ugly IMO. I'd rather have more nice noise than big smudges. TH-cam compresses the footage down aggressively in FullHD, but I just watched the video again in 4K and the details are well preserved. Sure, it would be better to watch the original footage, but since most people upload their stuff on TH-cam, this is actually a good representation of what you can expect of that camera.
Did you adjust for the field of view for the MFT and FF because I’ve seen other reviewers who when adjustments are made for crop factors and aperture’s demonstrate that all things being equal the MFT will always have a lower ISO than the FF at the same field of view and same FF equivalents hence sensor size for video will not be such an advantage after all and then when dynamic boost is applied most likely superior to the FF when asjusted for the field of view
I only the field of view so the image is better comparable. Shutter and f-stop are set for equivalency, but the exposure is the same, so there would be no mismatch. The ISOs are the real ISOs without any equivalency corrections.
Dpreview made a video addressing the idea that more pixel density affects noise. They convinced me that it's a myth. Search "Why lower resolution sensors ARE NOT better in low light" and let me know what you think. I don't think the S1 needs to be differentiated as good in low light relative to 20 MP+ sensors for example. But the S1 is fantastic, and love the videos.
@@CanditoTrainingHQ Thanks for your input, glad you like the videos! I have seen that video and absolutely agree with their assessment in this specific case (If I have 4x resolution and get 4x the noise in a 1:1 comparison, I get 1/4 of the noise if I scale down to 1/4 of the size; simple maths). In video I have no scaling advantage if I record in UHD for example. I had the GH5S for a while and it simply performed a lot better than the GH5, by at least a stop. The A7SIII can also go a couple of stops higher than the S1 with better noise performance. I am pretty sure that having less MP helps, but as we approach newer and better technologies, this advantage becomes negligible. If that rule would always be true, the GH4 should perform a lot better than the GH6, since it only has 16MP. But the GH5S and A7SIII are undoubtly the low light kings in their classes when it comes to video. So I would assume that the lower MP count helps here. I would love to test the GH6 against the GH5S. Would be interesting to see how close they are. Maybe the GH6 even dethrones the GH5S? :D
Subscribed man! What a great comparison! This is the info Ive been looking for! Free idea by the way, comparing the GH6 at 2000 ISO with DR boost ON and OFF to see if the DR boost could be used as a dual gain sensor or not.
great video. I guess I will stick to my gh5. I don't see anything that I would use from the updates. I just shoot corporate videos and wedding videos myself. I don't really need dr boost. The problem Panasonic has is that the gh5 is already beyond many of our needs. It's tough to sell us on upgrades that are not used.
It's okay in 4K, but rather soft in HD. Full Sensor readout is the sharpest in comparison. I would only use Pixel/Pixel in HD for S8 lenses and if I really need to. I think Pixel/Pixel in 4K is fine for UHD delivery, haven't seen any major issues with it. Just remember to use lower ISOs and you are fine.
The GH5 seems to have way more digital sharpness compared to the GH6 but also less noise reduction. I'm sure if the GH5 had less sharpening, the low light performance would be better because when using the GH5 5K open gate with sharpening all the way down, the camera gives a very organic image with less noise.
So overall would you say that the s1 image is a little better, regardless of light? I’m deciding between these two systems now and while image quality is a huge consideration, I also value codecs, time limits, lens size/weight and rolling shutter. I currently have a bmpcc 6k pro, but I need a system with good ibis, weather sealing and a smaller footprint, this my interest in a Panny system. Thanks.
Tough question. The S1 is better regarding DR and sharpness, but the GH6 has far better codec and franerate options, is a good bit smaller and can use lighter lenses, because it's MFT. I would say IQ is better on the S1, but only by a tiny margin. If you don't need the fancy codecs and fos you could also go with the S5, which is essentially an S1 in a GH camera body. I for one prefer the GH6 for it's versatility and smaller footprint. But everyone has different needs.
not sure what you mean by "dr boost kicks in at iso 2000"? it doesn't kick in automatically, you have to turn it on yourself, and then you can't go lower than iso2000.
Very well done. Enjoyed this video. Bravo. Thank you. Do you know ,is there a base iso on the GH6 when not using the DR boost. (VIDEO) I've heard many things from many people here on TH-cam. Some say keep as low as possible and others say for color and the best sensor performance at least 400 (that was on my GH5) what do you think? I googled it with any success.
The GH5 starts at ISO 400, the GH6 at ISO250, and that is where it performs best noise wise. The ISOs below that are marked with an L, so those are possible, but you might loose IQ. I also don't have it seen written anywhere, but what I saw so far from my tests suggests a Base ISO without DRboost at 250 and with DRboost at 2000.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker Very good. Thanks for letting me know. Looking forward to more from you. I've asked others and it seems like nobody has done an in depth tutorial on the GH6 Auto focus and how to really use it and the very best settings.. It is not working so well for me but I think that it may be because I have some things turned off when they should be on. I'm not talking about speed and those settings. I'm talking about understanding all the ON's and Off's of the many things involved with auto focus.. I can't wait for somebody to come out with long detailed tutorial on that. Thanks again.
I heard from others that Gh6 can put iso to 25.000 with increasing it from the menù - yes it arrives with 12,000 as maximum iso, but it can be increased, that's what I heard to say around - so let me know if it is possible to increase and if it true.
You can only set the GH6 to 25,600 in photo mode in a different picture profile than V-Log, i.e. Standard. In video mode 12,800 is the max in any picture profile as far I can see. Extended ISO range is on. Basically, yes it is possible, but only in photo mode in a different picture profile - 12800 is the ceiling in video.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker Could we just boost it in post for a similar result? I know thats kinda weird but it seems like you could easily use it boosted up a stop or so from 12800
@@RhettThompsonFilm Absolutely, but then we are also magnifying the compression artifacts. It would be cleaner if it happened in camera before compression.
The GH6 features DRboost in which it reads out the sensor in a way, where it boosts the sensors dynamic range by about a stop, which is great for MFT. But ISO starts at 2000 in this mode.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker does the gh5 have that (idynamic) or is that something else?. also what is PIP an full sensor mode? and does the gh5 have it too )
No, the GH6 is a stop better in low light over the GH5 from my tests and experience. But I used the GH5 quite extensively with the 18-35 in low light and that combo is working great, nothing wrong with that.
Again, incredible useful comparison! Thank you! Now when the G9ii arrives, with the better autofocus than the GH6 it seems that this is a great choice also in comparison to the S1 or S5ii regarding noise! Liebe Grüße!
Absolutely agree about the grain, it resembles what a film grain plugin filter would render a lot.
Actually not getting rid of it in post at all!
Yes I own Sony a7sIII and a7IV. Juat bought Gh6 and 10-25 f1.7. With this combo, I hardly need to go over iso 3200 and makes it pretty compareble in low light with a7IV paired with f2.8 zoom lens. m4/3 is not an issue for low light, it is the lens that need to be fast. F2.8 zoom on m4/3 just not enough for low light. They saved m4/3 by produce 10-25 25-50 f1.7 lens in my opinion. They should make more f1.7 zoom lens in the future.
I dont ever see any difference in these comparisons honestly. Pixel peeping to the extreme who f'n cares
It's exciting that you got the GH6!!! I really liked this review and I especially like your point about how the noise on the GH6, at ISO 6400, looks "organic, almost like film grain". I think that's a very good point, and I know some people even ADD film grain in post production (to other cameras that have "clean" footage) but I agree that when it's organic-looking like this it's not too bad. The only concerns I have are when the TH-cam compression adds more noise to the noise, then that combination shows the artifacts.
Thank you for your comment!
Yes, the noise is very pleasing on the GH6. It is also superb on the Panasonic fullframe cameras, but the MFT cameras lacked that tiny bit of quality, that the GH6 can now deliver. You can never avoid noise and the cameras noise reduction is just ugly IMO. I'd rather have more nice noise than big smudges.
TH-cam compresses the footage down aggressively in FullHD, but I just watched the video again in 4K and the details are well preserved. Sure, it would be better to watch the original footage, but since most people upload their stuff on TH-cam, this is actually a good representation of what you can expect of that camera.
Did you adjust for the field of view for the MFT and FF because I’ve seen other reviewers who when adjustments are made for crop factors and aperture’s demonstrate that all things being equal the MFT will always have a lower ISO than the FF at the same field of view and same FF equivalents hence sensor size for video will not be such an advantage after all and then when dynamic boost is applied most likely superior to the FF when asjusted for the field of view
I only the field of view so the image is better comparable. Shutter and f-stop are set for equivalency, but the exposure is the same, so there would be no mismatch. The ISOs are the real ISOs without any equivalency corrections.
Dpreview made a video addressing the idea that more pixel density affects noise. They convinced me that it's a myth. Search "Why lower resolution sensors ARE NOT better in low light" and let me know what you think. I don't think the S1 needs to be differentiated as good in low light relative to 20 MP+ sensors for example. But the S1 is fantastic, and love the videos.
To be clear, this isn't in regards to sensor size difference. Rather that a 5.7k M43 sensor shouldn't be expected to be worse than a 4k M43 sensor.
@@CanditoTrainingHQ Thanks for your input, glad you like the videos!
I have seen that video and absolutely agree with their assessment in this specific case (If I have 4x resolution and get 4x the noise in a 1:1 comparison, I get 1/4 of the noise if I scale down to 1/4 of the size; simple maths).
In video I have no scaling advantage if I record in UHD for example. I had the GH5S for a while and it simply performed a lot better than the GH5, by at least a stop. The A7SIII can also go a couple of stops higher than the S1 with better noise performance.
I am pretty sure that having less MP helps, but as we approach newer and better technologies, this advantage becomes negligible. If that rule would always be true, the GH4 should perform a lot better than the GH6, since it only has 16MP.
But the GH5S and A7SIII are undoubtly the low light kings in their classes when it comes to video. So I would assume that the lower MP count helps here.
I would love to test the GH6 against the GH5S. Would be interesting to see how close they are. Maybe the GH6 even dethrones the GH5S? :D
Subscribed man! What a great comparison! This is the info Ive been looking for!
Free idea by the way, comparing the GH6 at 2000 ISO with DR boost ON and OFF to see if the DR boost could be used as a dual gain sensor or not.
great video. I guess I will stick to my gh5. I don't see anything that I would use from the updates. I just shoot corporate videos and wedding videos myself. I don't really need dr boost. The problem Panasonic has is that the gh5 is already beyond many of our needs. It's tough to sell us on upgrades that are not used.
Yes the GH5 is still a killer camera. For me it's mainly the 10Bit Slomo that was missing for me, which I got in the GH6. We are truly spoiled 😀
Hows the pixel to pixel detail compare to full sensor ? On gh6 ,
It's okay in 4K, but rather soft in HD. Full Sensor readout is the sharpest in comparison. I would only use Pixel/Pixel in HD for S8 lenses and if I really need to. I think Pixel/Pixel in 4K is fine for UHD delivery, haven't seen any major issues with it. Just remember to use lower ISOs and you are fine.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker thanks, great video...
The GH5 seems to have way more digital sharpness compared to the GH6 but also less noise reduction. I'm sure if the GH5 had less sharpening, the low light performance would be better because when using the GH5 5K open gate with sharpening all the way down, the camera gives a very organic image with less noise.
Very informative! I’m going to squeeze a bit more life out of my Gh5, try told hold out til a Gh7!! 🙌🏽🫶🏽😁
nice one thanks!
Great comparison video!
So overall would you say that the s1 image is a little better, regardless of light? I’m deciding between these two systems now and while image quality is a huge consideration, I also value codecs, time limits, lens size/weight and rolling shutter. I currently have a bmpcc 6k pro, but I need a system with good ibis, weather sealing and a smaller footprint, this my interest in a Panny system. Thanks.
Tough question. The S1 is better regarding DR and sharpness, but the GH6 has far better codec and franerate options, is a good bit smaller and can use lighter lenses, because it's MFT. I would say IQ is better on the S1, but only by a tiny margin. If you don't need the fancy codecs and fos you could also go with the S5, which is essentially an S1 in a GH camera body.
I for one prefer the GH6 for it's versatility and smaller footprint. But everyone has different needs.
suuuuuuuuuuuuuui
not sure what you mean by "dr boost kicks in at iso 2000"? it doesn't kick in automatically, you have to turn it on yourself, and then you can't go lower than iso2000.
Yes, I simply meant that at ISO2000 DR boost is activated, and that there is no boost below that. Could have phrased that better.
Very well done. Enjoyed this video. Bravo. Thank you. Do you know ,is there a base iso on the GH6 when not using the DR boost. (VIDEO) I've heard many things from many people here on TH-cam. Some say keep as low as possible and others say for color and the best sensor performance at least 400 (that was on my GH5) what do you think? I googled it with any success.
The GH5 starts at ISO 400, the GH6 at ISO250, and that is where it performs best noise wise. The ISOs below that are marked with an L, so those are possible, but you might loose IQ. I also don't have it seen written anywhere, but what I saw so far from my tests suggests a Base ISO without DRboost at 250 and with DRboost at 2000.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker Very good. Thanks for letting me know. Looking forward to more from you. I've asked others and it seems like nobody has done an in depth tutorial on the GH6 Auto focus and how to really use it and the very best settings.. It is not working so well for me but I think that it may be because I have some things turned off when they should be on. I'm not talking about speed and those settings. I'm talking about understanding all the ON's and Off's of the many things involved with auto focus.. I can't wait for somebody to come out with long detailed tutorial on that. Thanks again.
Thanks for the suggestion, I might do a video on that!
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker No doubt it would be a big help for the GH6 community.
Subscribed!
I heard from others that Gh6 can put iso to 25.000 with increasing it from the menù - yes it arrives with 12,000 as maximum iso, but it can be increased, that's what I heard to say around - so let me know if it is possible to increase and if it true.
You can only set the GH6 to 25,600 in photo mode in a different picture profile than V-Log, i.e. Standard. In video mode 12,800 is the max in any picture profile as far I can see. Extended ISO range is on.
Basically, yes it is possible, but only in photo mode in a different picture profile - 12800 is the ceiling in video.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker Thanks so much for the fast reply.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker Could we just boost it in post for a similar result? I know thats kinda weird but it seems like you could easily use it boosted up a stop or so from 12800
@@RhettThompsonFilm Absolutely, but then we are also magnifying the compression artifacts. It would be cleaner if it happened in camera before compression.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker Ive heard enough people talk about it including Panasonic reps that I am almost certain itll come i a firmware update.
what is dr boost
The GH6 features DRboost in which it reads out the sensor in a way, where it boosts the sensors dynamic range by about a stop, which is great for MFT. But ISO starts at 2000 in this mode.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker does the gh5 have that (idynamic) or is that something else?. also what is PIP an full sensor mode? and does the gh5 have it too )
No the GH5 has no such ability, this is a brand new feature. I don't know what PIP means in this context.
@@TheBudgetFilmmaker ok that helps, one more thing, do u think the gh5 with the sigma 18-35 would be as good if not better than the gh6 in low light?
No, the GH6 is a stop better in low light over the GH5 from my tests and experience. But I used the GH5 quite extensively with the 18-35 in low light and that combo is working great, nothing wrong with that.