How to Write Successful (and failed!) REDEMPTION ARCS

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 57

  • @GreenTea-gq7gv
    @GreenTea-gq7gv 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +94

    With rose quartz and iroh it's also that iroh is an active character in the story and rose is not. By the time audience finds out about his past, they have seen him do a lot of good things, and he continues to do good things afterwards.
    Rose is gone before the story started. And at first audience only gets to see her good side. And then her actions as pink diamond get revealed. With each new bad thing watchers find about her, her good deeds get more and more muted for them. And since Rose's dead, she can't take responsibility, apologize for lying, hurting volleyball, etc. Worse, it becomes Stevens responsibility to take care of her mistakes again and again.
    Rose's actions continue to hurt others, which makes it harder to see her good person, while iroh leaves impression that his dark past is truly in the past.

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +35

      Right! The dead can't speak, err I mean the G O N E can't speak! That's truly the prevailing consensus about the Pink vs Iroh thing. To add onto that, I mentioned that a part of redemption is acknowledging what you've done is bad. And sadly with Pink she couldn't take accountability for what she did in her current state. It makes me wonder though if she's the kind of gem to bury the past. In her VHS tape to steven, she knew what was going to happen with her becoming steven but she chose to stay silent about her past and hoped Pearl would too.
      A part of me believes that if Pink was still around, she would've taken accountability if her past came back to haunt her. But truly we'll never know ahhhhh! Anyways great comment!!!

    • @unripetheberrby6283
      @unripetheberrby6283 วันที่ผ่านมา +12

      Very well explained ^^

    • @Eggs_hatching
      @Eggs_hatching 13 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      It makes it even more difficult that the more Steven learns about the bad sides of pink the more he mirrors her, hurting himself and others in the process. It blurs the line of how much she is gone and how much Steven is her son vs is literaly her after transitioning (gender & species) & now has to contend with the the past and family that brought out the worst in them after years of no contact. Its way more complex then I think even the show writers were able to handle. And its made worse by the fact Pink is idolized so intensely at the start and we see her character growth in reverse

  • @ravenr0cks
    @ravenr0cks วันที่ผ่านมา +50

    I'd like to say (Regarding Pink Diamond) that, towards the recent parts of her arc, it felt like she just became a plot device to blame everything on since she's not around to do anything about it.

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +22

      I know this comment isn't meant to be funny but I laughed anyways 😭😭 you're right, especially when it came to spinels lore

    • @ravenr0cks
      @ravenr0cks วันที่ผ่านมา +21

      @Rosemadi.artist TRUST, I'd cackle too. But lemme cook for a sec- PEARL forgot Spinel too and Spinel's lack of a brain is what caused her to stand STILL for 6000 years like??? I'd give it one year and peace out

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +16

      NAWRRR cause spinel was so locked in 😭😭 in it to win it, i would've bounced too and im sure Pink thought that too. I wonder what year she realized she was being cucked but stuck by hoping pink would come back with a gold medal

    • @ravenr0cks
      @ravenr0cks วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      @@Rosemadi.artist LOL FR LIKE...GIRL LETS BFFR 👏😂

    • @Theweirdunicorn69
      @Theweirdunicorn69 วันที่ผ่านมา +11

      @@ravenr0cksI had a fan theory that gems physically can’t ignore their diamond, so Spinel couldn’t move

  • @zalamazu
    @zalamazu 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +46

    15:08 I have watched so many videos on character redemptions and no one has mentions this! I think this divides into the topic of redemption vs. healing, character intention vs. world intention. Realistically speaking, every person who betters themself all have vastly different approaches and motivations. There are people who have done horrible things (murder, war crimes… you name it) who go onto be average, or even good people simply because they wanted an easier life, or perhaps to impress someone they love, or even to just make money. People don’t always improve themselves for the selfless reason of “being good makes me feel good”. Healing yourself often starts with a more personal, or even petty reason. And then you eventually like the feeling of doing good things so you keep doing them anyways. (I used to be a lie and steal a lot. But I became much more honest and gave things away simply because stealing became stupid. I didn’t actually use all of the things I had because having them in public would get me caught and they took up too much space in my room. Plus, why have all these different things (clothes, fidgets, etc.) when I could just have one or a couple that’s specific to me with rich history? So much cooler, y’know? I improved myself only for me but it was a win for everyone.)
    And redemption is simply a reaction from the characters around them. So it completely depends on what the characters do and don’t know. A war criminal could assimilate into normal life as an average, or even good person, and no one would know (this is surprisingly common in real life). But do they deserve to be redeemed? Many people would say no, that they deserve to be killed or spend the rest of their life in prison, but others would say that if they want a second chance to be genuinely good then they deserve it. Societal redemption, or even small group redemption is a very grey area, but in terms of healing, almost anyone can heal themselves.
    In terms of fiction, I think more writers should mess around with what the characters do or don’t know about the morally questionable character. Would knowing their bad past (or present?) change their perception of the character? Does this character make up excuses for what they did or are they honest and ashamed? Are they honest with some things but not others (Squid School I’m lookin at you…)? Or do we the audience know of the horrible things they did but not anyone else? Think about the people you know in real life or historical figures, there’s more to learn from them then fiction tbh

    • @zalamazu
      @zalamazu 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      (I mention Squid School because it’s common for people to be honest about some aspects of a specific bad thing (ie. History of violence, sexual misconduct, etc.) to hide the fact that they did much worse. It’s to make it look like they are bold for confessing and have moved on, that this is the worst thing they did. What happened with Squid School was that, in his dating advice livestream, he talked about throwing rocks at a girl he liked when he was a kid, that he wasn’t good with relationships. It sounded like it was a hard confession for him to make, something he was ashamed of. And I don’t doubt that. But little did any of us know that he made far worse decisions later, even having his ex have a restraining order against him. This made part of his fan base doubt what he did (not me lol you should always believe the victim), that he’s innocent until proven guilty, although the evidence has proved otherwise… And he hasn’t said a word on social media in months. Yeah, it was pretty bad. I mean he actually made some great videos and did have genuinely good writing advice. Very smart guy. But boy were we fooled.)

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +4

      That's so true! I think one that I remember was some 100-year-old n*zi being tried and imprisoned after being unproblematic in society for literal decades. I believe that people should take accountability, but I also believe that people can learn from the past and do better. Everyone acts so high and mighty as if they've never made a mistake before and take it into their own hands to serve justice, which is so toxic and destructive. Justice always gets served regardless, but it's not everyone's court to administer it. Idk, my opinion! 😭 Not to be that goober, but how can toxicity be fought with toxicity? Anyways, like you said, you realized over time that stealing was stupid. Everyone knows it's wrong, I'm sure other people told you it was wrong, but you took it upon yourself to realize that. And your own intuition and worldview prevailed at the end.
      And I agree when it comes to writing! It's so interesting to have characters who seemingly hide their past. More writers should be less afraid to make flawed characters.
      To be honest, this is my first time hearing about this squid school character 😬, but ironically, this isn't my first time hearing this kind of story. It's a tale as old as time here on the internet. If it's anything like the Projared situation, omg. That's why you should never wrong people online or in person. You think no one will ever say anything, but they will once they receive courage. Your apology will be ignored, and silence will be an assumed admission of guilt. Reading more about the situation, it's sad all around. Tragic for the victims, pity to the squid. The last court you ever want to be involved in is the court of public opinion. Especially if it's the Twitter kind.

  • @anikagrace2215
    @anikagrace2215 วันที่ผ่านมา +16

    "Give your character a flaw, a normal flaw that isn't genocide or war crimes"
    Me: Laughs in Dalinar Kholin

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      That guy fits into the next section 😭😭😭 he's not allotted the redemption just the reverse redemption

  • @genericartist3553
    @genericartist3553 วันที่ผ่านมา +25

    I think what separates a good redemption arc from a bad redemption arc is three things: 1: Having the person called out for the bad actions, 2: Having the person either start the story regretting their actions or come to regret their actions and want to change, and 3: Having the person actually repent and fully make up for their actions. I think why redemption arcs can be so bad is the fact in a lot of cases they either just get away with it because they did one good thing that might not even collate to their wrongdoing, or they have a sad backstory and that's used as an excuse for their actions and they just get forgiven immediately. In my opinion, to make a good redemption arc you need to put any sad backstory aside (though there are exceptions), call out the character for their terrible actions, make the character regret their actions and want to be better, and have them actually repent and repay for what they've done in the past, proving to the characters and the audience that they have fully changed. It feels like some redemption arcs just feel hollow and makes the audience question why they wouldn't just go back to doing bad things, and makes the audience think the characters are stupid for trusting them.
    I just wanted to add my two senses to this conversation, I ramble a lot!

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      Omfg yessssss! I forgot about that cringe aspect of some characters using their sob story as a reason they're bad 😭😭😭 it's so terrible cause usually their crimes are worse than their sad story. Anyways these are all good points for a good redemption!!!

    • @st4r_eats_molten_plastic
      @st4r_eats_molten_plastic 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +3

      “Your apology should be as loud as your disrespect was.” -a random google image my chorus teacher’s wall, right beside Homer Simpson.

  • @SpaceChannelJules
    @SpaceChannelJules วันที่ผ่านมา +9

    Wasn't ready for the Rose Quartz jumpscare... I respect Rebecca for managing to write someone so complex in a kids show though. Frankly that goes for most of the characters though.

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +6

      Honestly, and a complex woman nonetheless!!!!

  • @MC_CN
    @MC_CN วันที่ผ่านมา +5

    Something I've seen that not many others mention is that we both see Iroh and Rose with reverse character development.
    We see their character development stripped away through flashbacks and lore hints, eventually leading to their farthest point from where they are at the beginning of the show.
    The difference is that Iroh has foreword character development, too. Each mention of who he used to be is contrasted with how far he's come, showing that he's bettered as a person.
    Since Rose is gone, we don't get that, we're just shown how bad she was and not how far she went away from that.

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Yeah there's so much ambiguity when it comes to how Pink feels about her past! We know that Iroh hates his path, and often spoke to other characters about how much he wanted to distance himself from that. But when it comes to pink. She's G O N EEEEE!! Know one really knows what she thought about it, and ofc she kept silent on the matter too.

  • @st4r_eats_molten_plastic
    @st4r_eats_molten_plastic 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +4

    When I saw the title for this video, I KNEW you were gonna be talking about Varian. I’m sorry the brainrot is consuming me…… but his redemption arc is SO GOOD AUUGHHHH!!! I have so many Thoughts about him. ANYWAYS!!!! Me and my friends recently wrote a play that we are trying to make a prequel, sequel, AND rewrite for. (The directors messed everything up rippp) and there’s this one character who KILLS A 14 YEAR OLD’S MOTHER. He’s so silly tho like lil bro was just stuck in an apocalypse and had to dimension hop.. like a savior complex is just a side effect!! :( another character, the one I wrote and played, has kind of a comedic relief to villain to redemption arc. I’m being so fr when I say I stole his personality from Varian, Hyde from the glass scientists, and GIR from invader zim. I can’t stop the brainrot OH LU GODDDDDNDJMCNC!!!

  • @fictional-enby
    @fictional-enby วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    the way i was jumpscared by your mention of varian omg
    I was pretty sure I was the last surviving member of the tangled fandom 😭

    • @fictional-enby
      @fictional-enby วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      also your moon cass opinion is not a very hot take from what I've seen, although upon rewatch I think it's a fairly solid arc that gave us some banger songs. mostly varian was robbed of his pitched spinoff show and also season 1 screen time 😤

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +2

      Tangled the series fans are few but very passionate 😭😭😭 omg that's so true! We need more people from that universe traumatized or vengeful, so we can get some more good music!!!! I listen to nothing left to lose everyday like no joke! Anyways I don't hate Cassandra's arc and I kinda like how she flip flops from good to bad lmao but yeah I just like varians arc a tad bit more x'DD

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Oh oh yeah! We were 100% robbed from the varian show, we've been robbed from so much varian content and lore 😭😭

    • @st4r_eats_molten_plastic
      @st4r_eats_molten_plastic 17 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I will never forget how we could’ve had vat7k. ALSO YR PFP IS SO REAL OMG 😭

  • @jadamiller7485
    @jadamiller7485 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

    I would LOVE to see an attempted and failed redemption. Like, characters tried to help the big bad go good, but the bad just couldn't. But don't make it feel like a surefire thing like chloe in miraculous to just pull the rug... huh. That might actually be hard to pull off...
    I mean, the collector kind of did in the finale with belos.

  • @peggsnbacon
    @peggsnbacon วันที่ผ่านมา +2

    YESS I was just thinking about your hair symbolism video when this popped up!! I think it's a sign that I should've subbed ages agoo

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      Omg yay welcome back and thanks for the sub 😭💕But yes a massive shout out to all of these types of characters and may their growth come eventually!

  • @100lovenana
    @100lovenana 5 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    The reason why Rose isn't redeemed is because she DIDN'T intend to fix her mistakes. She left the looming threat of the Diamonds the way the are while dumping all of her responsibilities on her son. And I'm still not sure if it's confirmed, but it's heavily implied that she knew she was going to die when she gave birth to Steven, so yeah, she really did literally dump her own child into a world were every single consecuence of her actions would fall on him and only on him, leaving her out of any repercussions.
    Also, the biggest reason her redemption doesn't work is because the writing of Steven Universe in general became worse and worse in its later half. Basically, they dumped every single bad thing possible on Pink Diamond (the cause of the war, Spinel, Bismuth, Voleyball) while making the rest of the diamonds (the ACTUAL rulers of a genocidal society of aliens) just "adults with a child's mind who didn't know any better", especially White Diamond. And yes, I'm still angry about it, White Diamond should've been a pure-evil villain, no excuses. No, actually, all the diamonds except for Pink should've been the irredeemable ones from the very beginning. When the show tried to make Yellow Diamond sympathetic in that zoo episode, I knew the writers were going to derail whatever they had planned first.
    I don't know what came up on the writers' minds to suddenly decide everything should be only on Pink. Steven Universe's writing became a mess, and thats the main reason why Rose Quartz's "redemption" was completely butchered.

  • @Jubscreuda_UwU.cookie
    @Jubscreuda_UwU.cookie วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    this video ended up remembering me of a oc i have that literally went to a hospice and two years later returned to society. He doesn't remember what he did to get there and the people around town just isolate him because he's "crazy" (btw he's besties with the daughter of one of the most influentials guys in town)

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      OOOO your OC sounds interesting, omg I feel so bad for their circumstance though

  • @thepeeps5943
    @thepeeps5943 วันที่ผ่านมา +6

    I know it has barely anything to do with the video but yeah
    10:18
    The universe hated this child.
    I understand what he did was wrong but jeez he had a point about the rocks.
    Ngl I thought Fredrick was going to be the main villain of season 1….

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา

      The butterfly effect in its purest form. He started out wanting to save corona just to get arrested by corona omg

    • @thepeeps5943
      @thepeeps5943 16 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @ also really sad

  • @lavndvrrart
    @lavndvrrart วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    RAHHHH VARIAN MENTION 😱😰😫

  • @sonicdihedgehog1
    @sonicdihedgehog1 วันที่ผ่านมา +3

    Really, With That, I Like to Bring in Another Character that is Actually Terrible Enough Not to Deserve Any Sort of Redemption. And That is Actually Sheryl Godspeed from Final Space. And, Really, Throughout There, She Not Only Abandoned her Own Son Since his Father's Demise. But, Also:
    -Tried to Harm and Kill Him Multiple Times
    -Nearly Sold Him to a Psychopath in a Tellitubbies Suit
    -Nearly Tried to Kill Her Son's Own Lover Out if Spite
    -PUT A GLOCK IN HIS HEAD
    -NEARLY COMMITTED GENOCIDE TO THE ENTIRE UNIVERSE......For One Guy......
    Also, Even when she Actually Tried to Have her Own Redemption Prior to Season 3, Not Only was it Rushed. But, She Barely did Anything to Help Make Up for Things Such as:
    -Barely Had Any Moments With her Son
    -Barely Gave Any Advice to her Son with his Relationship
    -Barely Even Defended Him from his Friend Ash from Blaming Him for One of Their Friends' Demise.
    Really, She was Still Just a Terrible Person. Even Before she Met her Love John, She Actually Did Terrible Things Since she Works For an Organization. And Even After her Lover's Demise. So, Really......

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา

      OOOh I really need to watch Final Space, I never knew that all of that was going on, but Sheryl sounds awful omg

    • @sonicdihedgehog1
      @sonicdihedgehog1 20 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @Rosemadi.artist She Definitely Is. Really, Her Actions are Even Inexcusable......Really......

  • @ellaowl
    @ellaowl 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +4

    I must admit, it's quite captivating to watch the way you draw plus animate at the background! It looks super cool! Along with your view on Pink Diamond, since, Pink Diamond just beats down a lot by pretty much everyone. As someone who extremely loves flawed characters, it kind of sucks sometimes. I do have a tendency of liking characters that everyone doesn't like. Like, Unicorn from the game named Will You Snail. Ehe. Tho, it seems like I'm going off trail because it's not related to redemption at all.
    Regarding redemption, I have a main villain where I believe doesn't deserve redemption named Occult. Guy really sacrifices and controls a lot of fish, (Fish, because the whole world is fish) plans to do more eviler stuffs in the future towards the main character (s), commit to it, and pays for it by being trapped to rot in prison. Tho, one of the main character wants to help Occult redeem, then he got convince that Occult isn't worth redeeming.
    And I got the other characters named Onyx, he is pretty much like Occult's ex-student. Considering Occult's behavior, Onyx isn't spared from being mind controlled either. Got forced to sacrifice a lot of fish, and turns against his own people. Onyx just snapped because Occult asked him to sacrifice his bestie, backstabbed Occult, and swims away! Tho, Onyx did goes insane back home and caused one of his friends trapped in the dungeon, while the other got under his control for years. After Onyx gets a pretty much life changing experience (Death, and got revived) it helps Onyx with finally changing to the better. Onyx just started to make a moss farm with his friend that he sees as a sister, the same character that he puts in the dungeon, also the same character Occult asked Onyx to sacrifice, lol.

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  วันที่ผ่านมา +1

      Haha 20 videos in and I think you're the first person to bring it up 😂 They're pages from my web novel! But yeah anyways, I like Pink Diamond as well! I can acknowledge what she did as bad, but I can still see her growth. Even if it's buried behind a lot of mess.
      anyways both Occult and Onyx sound like really complex and interesting characters! Very well fleshed out as well! There's so much drama under the sea haha, or under water, I should say underwater. Anyways I like that Onyx has his own personal dilemmas such as not wanting to sacrifice a friend to make him act the way he does!

  • @jadamiller7485
    @jadamiller7485 14 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

    Pink diamond is truley a child growing up, or trying to.
    She was a kid throwing tantrums, not really disecting the good and bad yet.
    She possibly came out overcooked, leading to the diamonds not letting her take on the responsibilities she was literally born to do: Lead.
    After begging, she gets a colony, but white fully expects her to fail, and to rub it in her face. That's what the "did you get it all out of your system?" Talk was.
    Pink managed to find a way to do what she was programmed to do in a different way. But she also did it without the support of her family, so I imagine that could have played a part in her bad desicions, kind of like a sheltered kid being thrust into the real world. She was never given the resources to even practice leadership because no one expected her to.

  • @sonicdihedgehog1
    @sonicdihedgehog1 วันที่ผ่านมา +1

    Nice. Really Nice.

  • @michael.wsmrkov
    @michael.wsmrkov 2 วันที่ผ่านมา +10

    GUYS ROSEMADI JUST POSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!YAY

  • @simsgirlgem
    @simsgirlgem 19 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +2

    Can I find your book on Amazon so I can request my library to get it back

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      I only have the digital copy on my website sadly 😭

    • @simsgirlgem
      @simsgirlgem 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      @@Rosemadi.artist dang well if you do print let me know I love to request my library to get books so that hopefully others can discover great stories

    • @Rosemadi.artist
      @Rosemadi.artist  18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา +1

      Awe thanks so much that's so sweet 😭😭💕💕 you'll be the first person I let know!

    • @simsgirlgem
      @simsgirlgem 18 ชั่วโมงที่ผ่านมา

      @@Rosemadi.artist thank you