Yeah totally. I'm pretty sure I was securely attached. My previous relationships were good. Then my current one with my husband he suddenly broke up with me out of nowhere. Since then I became anxious about him doing it again, and so now I feel like I definitely identify as having been anxiously attached, because he now regularly does this hot/cold cycle 😒
@@hayleysmith287 same. That's why I don't believe it's a personality type. If you have a partner that makes you feel secure, you are securely attached. If you have someone lovebombing you, then going hot and cold or making you jealous, of course you'd feel anxious. Some people claim they can simply cut off the person and get turned off if their partner acts hot and cold...but for a woman who has slept with a man, it's hard not to feel attached.
@@taghazoutmoon5031 I don't believe it's a personality type either, it's emotional abuse and nothing else. I bet if people started using forms emotional retaliation these ppl will get their acts together. Sorry if I come off as cross, a DA just deactivated after lovebombing me and has gone no contact. My preeminent emotion as of now: ....rage....pure FCKNG rage...
@@taghazoutmoon5031 i wonder if thats biology. If a woman has sex with a man..if theres a chance she could get pregnant and he could father a kid to her..her brain realises this and possibly is attached. Some people it may take longer depending on their past experiences.
I've heard it countless times. Anytime I asked why they did this or that or expressed they don't seem too interested in knowing me or more about who I was or whatever, "im sorry, I guess im just not good enough or I guess can't give you what you need." Seriously, it's absurd. Always the victim
I am a DA and I have said this to every partner. To be honest, I just don't understand why partners are never satisfied emotionally. It feels too much pressure to be responsible for the feelings, mental health of others. It does not come from a bad place but from feeling too much pressure and responsibility.
@@charliegil2007your defense mechanisms to stop attachment from happening, no pressure being nice to the right partner just practice niceness. In a way we’re somewhat responsible for other’s emotions within balance, everyone’s needs look different just try to understand your partner and also express your needs
What made me smile today is "all APs have gathered here and they still wonder if their DAs will return, even after the emotional abuse, neglect and the discard they went through, nobody can love anyone like AP can, Hugs to my AP folks
after several months post- break up with the DA I can say I feel sometimes seriously creeped out at the notion I let this person into my personal space and took them to be a serious partner, with all the gifts and benefits one extends towards the person, and given the about face they did- in total 6 months, the length of the honeymoon period. In the abstract sense they behave like A.I. Artificial Intelligence. The deactivation is like a light switch - and this is what really turns one's head around - it is such an unnatural experience and I think ex-partners of DA's should take steps to take good care of themselves. The harm is real. This is your opportunity to take back your power, stand tall and stand up for yourself and know it is indeed a 'them' problem. They wanted you because you had love and empathy and many desirable traits and value. Always remember that. This is what drew them to you. You already have these things, it is they who lack. It is up to you to stand in your power and your value. It was always there. You can't force someone to see it, even when it is due to some trauma of theirs. As for you, you are now armed with a greater knowledge about the types of people there are out there in the world and who you need to avoid to keep yourself whole and safe. If love is what you're after, literally anyone else can better meet you there, and is better than this choice
Hit the nail on the head with this, I was told by my D.A that I was the complete package and then after a petty disagreement she threw in the towel without resolving it, I couldn't get her to communicate, they lack mature emotional skills, lack empathy, cannot bond, they're Capricious, if you see any signs of this then save yourself and get out, you can't fix them they're not worth the effort
@@waynejenner3635 Anyone in their rational mind would reject without hesitation when one is tossed aside willy nilly - and one must never look back - it's the emotions one feels that make it difficult - so just remember emotions pass and act as a true advocate for yourself - the only sane and healthy response is to save yourself (as you say) and never look back - consider yourself educated just as if you had escaped a scorpion
That is true also true along with any other attachment style too if they don’t want it no amount of work and compromise will do anything to fix it or make it better
The best way to meet the needs of the dismissive avoidant are to develop a deep sorrow and Compassion for their core wounds. Secondly always study their body language and tone of voice to ensure you're not causing them any deep pain. Keeping a journal and check list is useful to study in bed while they are reading or turned aside or in deep slumber Never say I love you more than once a fortnight as this can trigger deep engullfment issues. Never stop saying I love you once a fortnight or you may trigger deep core feelings of being inadequate. Maintain minimal eye contact as this sometimes triggers a feeling of their boundaries being violated. Communication by notes can avoid misunderstanding and allows the DA to attend to your needs at a time when they feel ready to read the note. Never push any physical needs on them. Bromide is useful in some cases. Going to expensive restaurants once weekly does help but only if you go on seperate days. This has the added advantage as you may meet the love of your life there. I am with a DA and currently studying to join a monastic order as years of solitude and abstinance has allowed me to discover my true calling. God bless the DAs of the world.
That’s a good one😂 you are building irony so slowly and in such a clever way I totally got into the trap of believing you and reading this with all seriousness. Bravo!
Way to much work for a person to do for someone who is oblivious to their problems & all the heartache that you will go through to accommodate these adult toddlers who never really amount to anything...the time, effort & the commitment that you devote to these people are worth it, it will leave you depleted & exhausted beyond belief.
This describes 1:1 how my relationship with my DA ex ended. He asked for space, I gave it to him. But at some point, I was so worried (because he said he was having depression and self-harming) and so lonely that I texted him. That was when he told me he couldn’t give me what I need (affection) and I couldn’t give him what he needs (space). It turns out that while I tried my best given my own anxiety to give him space, he went to another woman to find solace and cheated on me. He didn’t acknowledge his issue to work on and I guess he will never do. This type of partner and relationship is destructive on so many levels. They’re hurt from their past experience. Why don’t they work on healing their wound but go around hurting other people instead?
Why they don’t work on their healing and keep hurting people is a big question I’ve been asking myself a million times.. I think if they’re self aware at least to an extent, there’s a lot of shame for who they are. They know about their shortcomings but don’t know how to overcome them at the same time. My DA told me at the beginning that the most important thing for him in a relationship is „understanding“. What a strange thing to say, I thought. Now I know, he didn’t know how to handle his inner turmoil, so he hopes that someone else will handle it for him. What a big misconception out of fear and shame. It really just can’t work that way. Therapy is always an option, they are aware of that. But it’s very painful and tedious, so it’s much easier to just carry on and hope for „the one“ that gets you and doesn’t make any demands. Very sad.
the way thais explains it is, emotional literacy to them is like speaking a foreign language. like if someone asked me to speak Chinese . i would feel soo incompetent, and be painfully looking at the dictionary constantly. like i can't say what i want and express my feelings. that's what therapy is like for DAs.
@MangoOasis97 If I wanted to live in China, I would learn to speak Chinese. If an avoidant wants a healthy relationship they will need to learn how to communicate.
They don't realize they have an attachment issue. The anxious preoccupied person, heavily feels thier feelings and eventually may come to find attachment theory. Most Americans are still unaware of it. As an FA I never noticed that I was avoidant, I simply thought I wasn't that into the other person or things weren't working out. I think I am mainly leaning AP though. There are times where I have had partners become too clingy and it gave me unexplainable anxiety. But it's largely unconscious.
Wish I saw this months ago when I politely expressed that one of my needs is consistent communication or a heads up when space is needed to which a DA berated me for random things I never even knew was bothering them. Fellow APs; be careful when expressing your needs to a DA as you'll get burned & heartbroken and the pain is beyond confusing. Hopefully you take it all as fuel to become more secure and a better human.
True. Till I found this DA attachment I was feeling really bad and so depressed that I had made so many mistakes, mistakes that in a normal case would no way be near a deal breaker. Maybe a small talk or argument but definitely not erecting a stone wall , an impregnable stone wall. They dont dump either so very confusing are they with you or not . Its hard .
I too have experienced this. I’ve approached by trying to be gentle, non blaming, just “I feel” statements. I got the im sorry apology. Which was good. Thereafter, I got XYZ mistakes I made that caused them to feel ABC. And issues I didn’t know were issues. And I felt stumped because I genuinely apologized & that I wished we could talk about them so we could meet in the middle.
I am so upset about my DA who I have dated for 2 1/2 years. In the last year she has broken off with me 5 years and come back each time. But I am utterly exhausted and disgusted. This time I will not be available when she comes back
I have not closed my heart but begun to see gateways like this as screening mechanisms that I'd like to test early, not recipes for heartbreak. I am now mostly secure with a little AP remaining, and while this would sting, I would take it as a gift that this person does not have adult level coping skills and is not someone I want to date
After 17 years, I realize my partner will never ever meet my needs. I'm tired and I hear everything said...at the end of the day I can't force (nor do i want to) someone to do their part. I've said everything I needed. I've put in the work. There's nothing left.
They never will because they will never take accountability for their abusive behavior. They also will never do the mental health work to change, as that would be an acknowledgment of being ill and causing pain in relationships . They’re diabolical and psychotic.
I will. I just found out that I have this "DA" thing. I cried so much when I realised what's going on with me. Im going to fix this, because I deserve and my partner as well.
I am so glad to be learning about DA’s. For the longest time, I couldn’t figure out what it was in my situationship. It was a lot of love bombing in the beginning. We connected on a great level. Then it got to where the other person didn’t want the relationship. It didn’t matter how nice I was, how much I tried, they just would gaslight, hot and cold, up and down, and told me it’s my fault I started developing feelings. Yeah can’t help but have feelings for someone you have a connection with. Then the person acted like they weren’t responsible for anything or my feelings despite telling me good things. They eventually started wanting to break up at the slightest disagreement, saying the can’t do confrontation. They would run at the first mention of my feelings. Would call me crazy for feeling the way I was. They would give bread crumbs. I have made the decision to no longer pursue this person and what a relief. I feel so much better. It’s an emotional roller coaster dealing with people like that. Glad I’m no longer falling for the mess.
Dear Thais Thank you again for the great video. All these things work only if the DA partner wants to work for the relationship which often isn't the case. Moment you ask a DA to meet your needs they call it quits or call you needy. A relationship with a DA is a waste of your life unless they put in the work to become secure and meet you half way
In my relationship it seems like one issue a year. Takes a year or so to resolve to where we are both satisfied. One last one from the beginning. This is the third year. My boyfriend only spends time with his adult children on his birthday. Ive felt really left out, cuz i just get a .. hello i just got in..at 11pm.. wanta talk for a while .kind of thing. It really bothers me. Two years ago he exclaimed.. i love birthdays!! I could have clobbered him lol.
Just celebrated 9 years with my DA... It's been hard.. Really hard at times... But something has kept us together... Thias has been a big part of that, she's taught me so much and i owe great thanks to her and her videos....it's meant we have grown closer together and individually and as a couple we have succeeded... We'll never be perfect, but no couple is 100% perfect... I never thought we'd get to this stage... Living proof that AP/DA CAN WORK.... 💕💕💕
If you became healthier you would not be interested in your DA anymore. You are stuck in the addiction so you keep the roller coaster ride going. Best of luck
"What draws them in and increases attraction for them is the same thing that will eventually push them away." Yes. Because eventually relationships are supposed to develop depth, and commitment. They don't want responsibilities, they don't want commitment, they don't want to care, they want to abandon as soon as they get the urge to do it. Before you ever even consider dating someone who is DA - they need to be working on themselves, conscious enough to know what they're doing, and actually desire a relationship with you. If not, your wasting your time, and you are likely going to be abused by the end of it. They are literally attracted to people that heal wounds that they are unaware of/ do not want to be aware of or heel themselves. 🙃
Almost 19 yrs with my DA. We did the 2 yr cycle over and over. I was aware of the pattern around the 3rd time and it became worse and we'd physically separate for months then start over. Last time was 4 yrs ago. I began searching the "how to get her back" videos and started learning intersexual dynamics. Online coach told me I was in a textbook example of anxious/avoidant trap. With the help of a lot of books, this channel and a few others, I learned attraction, behavioral and evolutionary psych, and attachment. I became more secure, didn't take her behavior personally, and kept an eye on her attraction level for me. Spent a lot of time sitting in my anxious state self soothing. Painful stuff. Our relationship now is the most fun I've ever had with a partner. We mess with each other, play every day. Intimacy is often and better than it ever was. I'm actually a little weirded out because she wants to touch, cuddle, hug and smack my butt. Not used to that at all. I know it's because I make her feel safe. We don't text often and wait to share when we're home. I let have her space. I speak my mind immediately if something bothers me and no longer walk on eggshells. Maintaining attraction in an LTR and knowing how to do this with a DA made a huge difference.
Thats wonderful! When you say you kept an eye on her attraction level, do you mean that if you noticed it was waning, you would pull back and give space to allow it to build back up again? Or what did you do when you noticed it going backwards?
So basically let your avoidant partner leave and move on with your life. Because they will not fix themselves and be with a new person every 1-3 years for the rest of their life cause they can’t stay with one person forever that’s the conclusion I have come to I’m sick of this and I’m a secure person
Quit lying you're not secure if you're anything you're hurt it's obvious now I won't say you don't have the right to be hurt because I don't know your situation but what you seem to forget or not want to take into account is no one chooses their attachment Style so before you act so high and mighty looking down on DA's remember this they didn't choose to be emotionally neglected as a child and not having any models of real healthy, communicating relationships
@everybodyhasissues it's funny that someone stating their perception of the interaction between different people causes you to feel attacked by it to the point of callng them a liar in the same sentence of admitting you have no context. At no point do they act "high and mighty". I don't care what anyone's attachment style is, how you treat others shows your character.
@@everybodyhasissuespeople choose their actions. The DA could choose not to lie, not to stonewall, not to cheat, not to gaslight, not to nitpick. They could choose to better themselves, to self reflect, to take accountability, to go to therapy, to get help to overcome their attachment wounds. But in the vast majority of cases they don’t. I’m sorry they had trauma in the past but that doesn’t excuse their behavior. They need to grow up and take accountability for their actions.
This is too real ... "I'm not able to meet your needs, what I do is not enough" hits home, and when distancing strategies don't work, DA feeling invaded
I’ve never found courses with the level of depth, clarity and value than Thais’s Personal Development School. Thank you Thais, you truly are a light of understanding of teaching in both ourselves and our relationships. ❤
I'm beginning to believe that it honestly breaks down to...Emotional intelligence, accountability, and emotional integrity. It's inconceivable to say with one breath that you love someone and will always protect them. Then with the very next breath show pure disregard sprinkled with tolerance. Yet, the moment you inform them that you will not tolerate that type of treatment and they dont have to worry about “hearing from you”. Now, they want to open back up again!😠Seriously WTFudge! It's exhausting!🥴 And It's emotional abuse!
You wouldn’t understand since avoidant dismissive emotions aren’t relatable unlike for FAs and Anxious folk. At the end of the day you just have to move on
The adventure, and chase is over once you both know everything about each other. You are both absolutely content with each other, and accept each other’s ways! Perfect 👍 No more drama! Just being content for the rest of your lives with each other is the key thing!
I’ve a close friend who’s a DA. They made it clear they didn’t want a relationship. I still let myself go to far and it drove them away. Months later they reached out to me and since I’d Ben working on myself we were able to reconnect. They have shown signs they are also working on themselves. I know my boundaries now and understand my DA friend so much better, thanks to this channel! Things are better than ever for the two of us. 😌
Me too, I'm a AP & he DA, he initiated yet said he didn't want a relationship also, but confusing mixed msgs for me & when I questioned he would back right off which sent me/my abandonment wounds spiralling & does not express himself, (he has wounds too) is so hard for me working together closely also, I know that we have connection, yet I feel a bit of resentment with no answers & a few weeks ago I said "what is going on"? Do u want to just be friends" & he said yes, yet I know if I allowed to let something happen, it would, I still hold strong feelings for him, yet I get to attatched....what did u do to work on yourself please?? I have stepped back but feel like its all his way "friends"! But maybe that is just my anxious attatchment & maybe that scared him off, yes what Thais says here is exactly what he has said/done all along...he's so used to being alone, scared.a gypsy...etc etc I'm hurt that he can just mask & switch on/off & feel hes just using me cause he knows me/my vulnerability/kindness/love 😔🤔 where I am confused is he said that his childhood was fine, mine wasn't...its exhausting/confusing, he knows what I feel/who I am....
@@pure-pisces4512 It’s hard but I accept that we are just friends even they they show all the signs, do all the things, that express love. So I try and focus on other activities I enjoy and when we have our “moments of closeness “ meaning things are really really great for a few days, I then back off. Give them space. It’s taken awhile but it works. What’s really interesting is there is someone else who I know is also really into them and I see them going overboard and getting pushed away. They shut down towards them. That helps me know that I’m doing the right thing
Dismissive avoidance is not something that can be worked with in a healthy way unless they truly want to change. It is a pathological lack of investment in the relationship coupled with the bait that they may eventually want you... and to invest. They won't. We don't live long enough to waste years in situations where we aren't wanted.
As an ex-a-bit-AP who's become secure, I tried to have a relationship with a DA. Of course beginnings were great, knowing the whole situation (years of psychology) I cautiously pulled away each time we had "more than usual", like a long weekend or more time spent together, or more intimacy during sex, used facts not feelings, never laid on him for anything, but it was still too good for him obviously : he managed to cheat on me with his ex. Who was "too needy", of course, as he described her. I didn't blame him, saying "It happens, all good", but then he said that it was her fault (coping mechanism for guilt, I know) and that "he didn't want drama so let's not talk about it" (again... I know). I said OK, to keep things calm, hoping that one day we could just have a chat about it. I really endured for a while (my countdown was 2 months) the no intimacy, no support, no sex, the silence, the "do this please" then "you shouldn't have done that" with the "I never told you that" and millions of other things, until I gave up the last day of the countdown when I realised that he was just not even at the start of working on himself, not even aware of his issue. I had actually asked a mutual friend he trusts and gets along with, to talk to him, casually, about attachment styles and how the website freetoattach.com helped him a lot (a strategy we thought about to make him at least have a glimpse on it), and he said "I don't know what this is talking about". He is a great person, with a beautiful soul and a delicate heart, but his case is extreme, a summary of all the things DAs do to be considered as assholes. I know it's not their fault. But not everybody can endure so much frustration and pain for a long time before they see changes. Not being close, OK. Not having any of your needs fulfilled, cheating, lies, no apologies, not responding to texts, and for me spending hundreds of hours studying DAs "how to cope strategies" and walking on eggshells day and night.... I gave up. Pretty sure that now I'm the Phantom Ex...
This is why they need to be alone and to leave people alone I was in a lonely relationship with one it's a nightmare hot cold etc and I'm secure tried to love and support I understand their child hood I have a lot of empathy they are very close to narcissism so I chose to detach I loved him so but I'm done again they want to be alone bless them with your absence I'm done won't ever deal with another I'm now healing.
Thank you for your content. My girlfriend has been opening up so much and we are communicating (very openly and well). I know avoidants aren't good for everyone but as someone with an anxious attachment style who's making an effort to be secure I think dating my avoidant has helped me grow and learn to be more confident in myself and to try to meet my own needs instead of just wishing others would and being mad when they didn't. Now when my avoidant takes care of me (which has upped in frequency significantly) its just the cherry on top. We made each other better and stronger both emotionally and physically. It was heart wrenching but even if we broke up today we would both be better for it. Thank you.
Long Distance Relationship: I deserve at least 35 minutes on the phone and a birthday text. My DA made me feel like saying this was attacking them. Good riddance.
Yep, they perceive expression of needs as trying to control and attack them. Really, no matter where their wounds come from, the behavior is just plain flat out SELFISH.
Mine just ended. I called him out on a few things, he accused me of attacking him and blocked me everywhere. Last time I was with him, he acted like he hated me. I flew all the way to Italy so he could treat me like shit.
Starts with: You're so kind and giving->you want some of it back?->you're saying there's something wrong with me!->I feel trapped and you're too needy ( I can get from you but not vice versa)->I can't "do" relationships->you deserve better! ( You do-believe him/her if you see it early enough). As so many commenters have said, if the DAs want to make these adjustments, they can succeed beautifully. It's sad when they have no clue that what they see as crossed boundaries is just the normal emotional negotiations of all relationships, or when the APs can't see past the hurt to what's driving the DA's and their own actions (easily said!).
Thank You, Thais Gibson, for your incredibly in-depth understanding of the dynamics at work in relationships of all types. Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge. And another thank you, additionally, for giving so much to us all, free of charge. Your videos are valuable beyond measure. This information is very much-needed, by most humans on the planet. And I appreciate the warmth you continually offer. There's not an ounce of judgment anywhere within your realm. Your ability to soothe is just wonderful. Thank you to you AND your team.
I use to think everyone deserved love...Not DAs...They will take and take and never return it. Always having one foot out the door. These people are not capable of connection...I can only conclude its because they dont want it. Often they see no problem with their behavior and will blame you for everything. Ive read that the vast majority of people on dating website are avoidant..Hmmm..I wonder why
Dude! I've run into at least 3 DAs on online dating. I'm wondering if the lack of effort they put into relationships is why they end up online... no one wants them in their social network? Wow
@@RnBkeyz and soon you were running the opposite direction..lol. I do believe on some level they desire connection and love...but they are totally oblivious as to why they havent found it
@@sunspiral79 not only oblivious but they don't even wanna know. Pointed it out as gentle as I could but somehow flipping it back on me was the only way to make sense of what I was saying..
As an AP I’m completely fine with 1-2 one liner texts in the morning/during the work day to touch base. Later in the evening I’d prefer to touch base again or have a conversation.
Let me tell you something, you dont need to watch all these videos trying to understand why a DA does these things. The only person you need to truly understand, is YOURSELF, and your needs. DA's will NOT meet your needs for a healthy, secure relationship - so why tolerate it? love is not supposed to be difficult. You can spend years wishing and hoping with a DA and for what? tears, headache & time lost, that slipped right through your fingers - and guess what? you'll never get that time back. Trust me when i say, that once you truly love yourself, and respect yourself, you will see that nothing about the dynamic with a DA or FA is attractive. You will see that life is better out there with someone else that will love you, and give you what you deserve.....set yourself free.
thanks ...... I think I really needed this I don't understand exactly why I was so head over heels for someone with DA The more time that passes, the more I lose myself
@@Master0fHamsters I was able to heal some of my attachment by keeping myself busy until I saw this person again. I felt secure in our feelings for each other now that we’ve had some space. I hope you find a way to feel more secure.
THISSSSS A relationship with a DA isn't a fully functional relationship. They don't want commitment. They don't want responsibility. They want their needs filled, and once their tank is full, they want you to essentially fck off until they need you again. I was married to one for years, you get no where with these people. I've now been in a relationship with someone who is secure for the last 6 years, and it's been one of the most wonderful experiences of my life. No begging for love, no begging for 5 minutes of time, no waiting for them to never text me back.... I'm just freely and lovingly given the things I always wanted. Sorry if you're a DA, go to therapy. I'm in therapy for my own issues, but I don't use my own issues to harm others, especially those I'm supposed to love. Once you realize you are dealing with a DA, drop it. You are WASTING your time.
exactly what happened to my current ex... she was totally drawn towards me in the beginning when i showered her with care and attention but as time and months goes by she starts to pull away more and more and i push more and more... she also said she can't give what i wanted.. we did discussed about our needs and boundaries in the end she still ended things with me she said she felt i can never change even though i was in the midst of trying to make changes to my approach to our relationship.
Abso-fuckinglutely. I left him and its been two weeks, and i dont crave for him or miss him. He has made me not long for him by going away from me for extended hours and periods of time anyway. So why does him leaving me forever matter. He has trained me to he happy in solitude, independence and freedom, i dont need him.
I wonder what would happen if an avoidant expressed a need for sexual interaction and the AP said, "well, that is your need to meet. I am not capable of meeting your need."
You will be giving your blessing for them to go and find someone who will meet that need. Not that they needed your permission because they’re gonna do what they want anyway
Just run from the anxious-avoidant trap altogether. It's not even worth TRYING to make it work, the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. Unless the DA is actively working their ass off to become a former DA- which they will not do just because you ask them- there is only one way to win with a DA and that's to completely abandon everything you need and want in a relationship and accept that you'll never get any of it from them. The FA or AP partner does all the work while the DA sits back and demands their way. Any time they don't get their way they hold the whole relationship hostage by disappearing until they "feel better." It's like having a relationship with a spoiled toddler. They have absolutely no room for another person's existence, feelings, or needs whatsoever, so don't bother thinking you'll be able to resolve conflicts with them- they'll just turn anything you say around on you and make it all about them. It doesn't matter what a good communicator you are, anything that confronts their behavior in even the gentlest way is "criticism" in their world. They'll sulk their way through Christmases, birthdays, and events that are important to you or simply not show up at all if they "don't feel like it," punishing you for "making them go" if they do show up. Promises they make disappear into thin air as soon as those promises become inconvenient to how they feel or what they want, but don't dare hold them to their word because you're "not respecting their space." They spend the entire relationship competing with you and preoccupied with their "space," never appreciating the relationship at all, but then getting mad at you when you stop giving. They take and take all of the love you have to give and give nothing back. When the FA or AP finally starts setting firmer boundaries and telling the DA "no" to doing all the work in the relationship, the DA gets vindictive and spiteful and sabotages everything, leaving their exhausted partner to clean up their messes while they walk away with no consequences or remorse. And you will never ever get an apology or any accountability from a DA. Not ever. FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. If you're going to bang your head against that wall trying to make it work with a DA you might as well just go be with a narcissist. There isn't much of a difference.
@@howtosober mic drop boom, I hold no I’ll will against my ex, I saw the red flags my AP need to please and fix took over! Then I started setting boundaries and expressing my needs and she bolted and ghosted, did it hurt yes, I worked and still work on me I’m doing so much better! Now I can spot a DA miles away before I let my AP attachment take over!
@@howtosober you know it’s real when the DA leaves your life and your mental and physical health automatically improves. i will never again deal with another one of them.
This is so deeply insightful. I finally understand the man I married 32 years ago. Unfortunately, we are separated for 12 years because we could never figure out what was wrong with us. I wish I knew this a long long time ago. I would be willing to work on our relationship with the knowledge and understanding you have presented, but getting him onboard will require God to open the door and make a way.🙏 Thank you for this groundbreaking video.
My DA boyfriend told me as brutally as possible that he while he still has sexual desire and finds other women sexually attractive, he doesn't feel that way about me anymore because there is too much conflict. I asked what amount of conflict would work for him and he said (and meant it!): ONCE A YEAR. Let that sink in.
So basically... When DAs are done taking and receiving, they shut down. Then when they come back for more, their partner has to be available to give more to infinity or else they ditch them. 👌 Amazing form of passive abuse.
@CI: Exactly that. Once again, we're all adults, and while I understand the origin of the behavior (theirs, as well as mine), it's immature, cold and unhealthy to stand staunchly in their ways yet continue the relationship.
I saw the title of one of her videos, "getting back with an avoidant" after you healed yourself, or something along the lines and I was left speechless. Haven't watched it and I have no clue what the point was.
@@ivia_ol8356 I do her courses on her Program and basically the DAs have to be willing to do the work on themselves too or else it is pretty much a dead end. But doing the work on yourself FIRST is the most important, most likely if you are healed and become secure, your DA wont even attract you anymore anyways. I REALLY recommend doing her courses it has helped me TREMENDOUSLY.
"How dare you critisize me! I dont like you anymore!" -DA "You think everything is critisism dude. I'm just speaking my mind and your holding information until you blow." - FA "SEE?! You make everything an argument!" - DA "Discussions, even debates, are not arguments." - FA (Silence, stonewalling) - DA "Listen we ALL need alone time and ALL need a break sometimes. Just speakup if you need that." - FA (Keeps stonewalling) - DA "Ok I give up I am out." - FA Waits far too long then tells everyone "I tried everything its just too hard. All he/she/them does is argue with me." - DA KEEP WALKING FA!! DONT FALL FOR THE BAIT AND GET PULLED BACK IN TRYING TO PROVE YOURSELF.
If DAs are longing so much for independence and solving their problems themselves then it is up to such adult to go and fix yourself and stop crippling people around. My DA ex would not read or watch or go to therapy… for whatever reason. Even hit hard by life did not start the process of learning and personal development. It looks like stuck, stubborn, stupid. Pick whatever definition you like…
What does the DA need to do? I have a lot of understanding for them but overall it is quite obvious that in relationship dismissive avoidants are highly dysfunctional and turn even securely attached people more anxious
So true. Where are the videos to help the dismissive avoidant become more securely attached? I used to be AP but now lean much more secure. I've grown a lot from the work I've done on myself over the last decade. And ended up dating a DA that love bombed me then dipped as soon as they saw the first sign of insecurity in me. It was a full 180°. This person actually knows they have some work to do on themself which is good. But also I feel like there are more resources for the people affected by DAs than for DAs themselves.
Loved this video. unfortunately it's late for me as my ex DA said literally what you said. " You want more than I can offer" while breaking up with me via text! Why do they keep coming back in this DA/AP trap if they feel this way about the APs needs?
Because we're all human BEINGS first and foremost and at our core our essence is pure love. The mixed energies within us speaks to our deep desire to WANT to BE love, to love and to be loved. But as this is a spiritual journey in the flesh we also carry the lifelong accumulated resistance to allowing this primal desire to BE. TO BE LOVE OR NOT TO BE LOVE...
I find when I approach my DA husband, his initial reaction is to say, “You want me to be someone I’m not.” If I am willing to give him space to work through the situation himself, and focus on myself, he usually responds within 3 days with a change in behavior showing he is trying to meet my stated need(s). I think the initial response is more a defense mechanism of, “Don’t promise her something I’m not sure I can keep.” After he’s taken some space to soothe his initial feelings, consider my request, and do solo research on how to meet my needs, he comes back more prepared and confident within himself about his abilities.
It’s beautiful that you have learned to work with this dynamic in your relationship. It takes a lot of patience but also the willingness on both sides to make it happen.
Let me sum it up in a very contrasting/ambiguous description. They want your love , but they dont want it. Its as simple and as hard as that. Ponder upon what i said to you and what that means to you. They want the best of both worlds , and they often go thru this "willing/unwilling" fight in their heads about how much control they are willing to relinquish and give up before they feel like theyve lost their own reality in a relationship. They want, need, love. Then they dont. They run. Rinse, wash, repeat. So its a cycle. Question is how far are you willign to play and hpw many times over? Two choices. You can either decide you love them that much and you can take it. Or youve been tortured enough and youre ready to bounce.
I'm tired of all those ressources centered around Avoidants's ego and little problems, like if Anxious didn't deal with a traumatic chilhood too. And it's always about catering to their needs too. It's really time they mature and learn to catter to other's needs too.
As I try to sort through my behavior and personality following a breakup for which I’m eternally grateful and relieved, I’m beginning to understand that I fall within the general definition of a dismissive avoidant. I’m content with the conclusion of the relationship, and cognizant that I should have ended it months earlier. I was thoroughly miserable, lacked any attraction for my partner, and in fact began to feel contemptuous of her appearance, behavior, and communication style, though I was careful not to demonstrate it for fear of unnecessarily hurting her. I broke it off cleanly, respectfully, and very decisively. She was a wonderful person to the end, even telling me that I was the first ex with whom she’d happily remain friends. It was the last communication that we shared, and I declined to further engage. She’s better off without me, and absolutely deserves someone worthy of her. I don’t feel that a continued friendship would be conducive to our happiness. I want to avoid anything like this occurring again. It was a first for me, which seems to indicate an unresolved issue with my previous relationship of 14 years. A lot of relationship and behavioral videos seem to have a common basis in reconciliation between partners. That simply doesn’t apply to me in my case. I can foresee no possible impetus, rationale, or reason to reconcile with her, but I do want to gain a better understanding of myself, what triggers my behavior, and what sort of person I might find most symbiotic and mutually supportive.
How long were you with this person? Please don’t mind my asking. It’s been 14 yrs for me and I’m having a hard time understanding how I’ve just begun to struggle with this in the last 2 yrs of our relationship.
My stomach dropped reading this, Jesus Christ. So cold and mechanical. I have similar dismissive tendencies too, but only when I'd been thoroughly hurt by the person.
Hi Thais, could you if possible make a video on fearful avoidant and dismissive avoidant relationship dynamic with some tips/advices? Thank you for sharing your wisdom 🙏🏻💜
Im DA and my husband is AP.... I love my husband and ive spoken of some of my needs but he is not consistent in meeting them and i get disappointed that i get triggered and shut down. Then i find it hard to meet his needs. I also can not move forward unless we can communicate CLEARLY of the issues and solve them with spelled out solution and ways to see improvement. But i cant just be all lovey dubby when i still feel tense from feeling like i was hurt and not understood (I now know this all from my childhood wounds but still I feel them now with him). I know love is not supposed to be conditional but i dont see it any other way. You meet my needs and then ill meet your. Its been a very hard 12 years and now i know both of our attachments style it all makes sense. So many cycles of up and down it's draining and he is burned out and i think out of love with me. Divorce seems like its around the corner. I dont want to lose him and i want to fight for it but im also scared that all we will do is be in this cycle forever. He doesn't seem like he wants to do the work.
I’ve been able to watch your videos and improve for the last 2 years. I have a Ex (on/off again for 3 years) who I believe is a DA. I’m an AP and even though I’ve learned, I still have been reaching out and wanting her to come back and for us to build and improve what we could be tho I’ve been stonewalled out for the last month. It hurts, I don’t want to be replaced or rejected, or feel like I did something wrong here. However, I’m healing and reframing myself and doin my best to improve my situation (and I’m also going through rough times after rough times)
Can’t carry them brother, they have to acknowledge they are DA. 6 years she left 3 times. Im done with that roller coaster, working on myself and now Im with someone who acknowledges and wants to meet and talk about my needs and I hers. Its healthy and no friction and there we talk about it in a healthy way. If she cannot acknowledge her DA attachment you are going to be in much pain.
@@MTG9878 man that sounds like the life. I’ve been on that self improvement journey for awhile tho at least now I can work on not hating myself and everything I do or don’t do
@@alexlovehall7796 first love you that has to be your top priority accept that you’re anxious and that past that brought you to that! My therapist made a great point it’s not your fault, now it’s your responsibility to mend it!
Trait variety explains why I only attract potential partners I am unattracted to. I have worked hard to develop in myself the positive traits I felt I was lacking in, so now only those who are lacking those traits are attracted to me; but they all have the traits I was never lacking in, so I don't feel any attraction to them. I guess that's an example of how working to improve yourself can damage your ability to find love.
Just run from the anxious-avoidant trap altogether. It's not even worth TRYING to make it work, the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. Unless the DA is actively working their ass off to become a former DA- which they will not do just because you ask them- there is only one way to win with a DA and that's to completely abandon everything you need and want in a relationship and accept that you'll never get any of it from them. The FA or AP partner does all the work while the DA sits back and demands their way. Any time they don't get their way they hold the whole relationship hostage by disappearing until they "feel better." It's like having a relationship with a spoiled toddler. They have absolutely no room for another person's existence, feelings, or needs whatsoever, so don't bother thinking you'll be able to resolve conflicts with them- they'll just turn anything you say around on you and make it all about them. It doesn't matter what a good communicator you are, anything that confronts their behavior in even the gentlest way is "criticism" in their world. They'll sulk their way through Christmases, birthdays, and events that are important to you or simply not show up at all if they "don't feel like it," punishing you for "making them go" if they do show up. Promises they make disappear into thin air as soon as those promises become inconvenient to how they feel or what they want, but don't dare hold them to their word because you're "not respecting their space." They spend the entire relationship competing with you and preoccupied with their "space," never appreciating the relationship at all, but then getting mad at you when you stop giving. They take and take all of the love you have to give and give nothing back. When the FA or AP finally starts setting firmer boundaries and telling the DA "no" to doing all the work in the relationship, the DA gets vindictive and spiteful and sabotages everything, leaving their exhausted partner to clean up their messes while they walk away with no consequences or remorse. Many times they will pull stunts like moving out without telling you or just ghost you altogether. However they leave, it will be like you never mattered to them at all. And you will never ever get an apology or any accountability from a DA. Not ever. FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. If you're going to bang your head against that wall trying to make it work with a DA you might as well just go be with a narcissist. There isn't much of a difference.
Right on point. But I think because of their behaviour psychologically it makes you love them more. 5 months on and I still miss him, I have found someone else I hope I can develop real feelings for him and just move on. I hope you have someone in your life now that makes you happy and fell loved 🦋
Amen. You are absolutely correct. Any form of asking for accountability, explanations or justification becomes a battle of whos rigjt and wrong. They never explain or apologize. And they make it seem like you are truly difficult to be with , even when you have given and given to the point you question your own sanity and identity yourself. When all your job becomes to be the bigger person and appease them just to stop the misunderstanding or bring things back to status quo. In my case , i would gently even say "how do you think we can get best thru all these issues and meet halfway or compromise?" And he in turn would say, ive compromsied enough, you either love me for who i am or leave it. In a healthy relationship , i feel like there is no "too much compromise" for the greater good of the relationship because both parties experiences and feelings matter. So its a continuous compromise of two people showing and deciding to make space for the either by understanding what you have to do to make the relationship thrive or reach an understanding as to where both people feel like the other is equally trying to show up and decide that the relationship is truly important to them and that no amoutn of compromise is great enough, but in the DA/AP dynamic, the DA oftentimes overestimates their role and their power by saying i dont need to do this much to keep someone, they will have to do more in order to keep me instead and this is where it becomes a one sided, unhealthy relationship.
@@trueblueimpersonations8949 I don't, I'm healing my FA attachment first and need to heal a ton of resentment about the egregious things he did on his way out. I don't miss him at all, but to take your petty gripes out on my animals??? Unforgivable.
Yes, so very true - this kind of relationship is just a drain, and not worth the time, energy and effort. I spent too long giving my energy to a DA, & i know it’s only because i didnt fully love myself at the time, but once he was gone, wow what a weight lifted off my shoulders.
My ex to the T first time she left it was I cant give you what you want. Second time same thing. Third time was when I brought up a need it was Im never enough. Then ghost me. Its funny there needs had to be catered mine was the response thats a you problem. Question, any one notice you could not have a bad day with you DA? If they had a bad day you had to acknowledge and be attentive to their bad day?
Yessss, anytime she had a bad day, I'd be there for her, but anytime i was having a bad day, she used to think it's going to be a conflict and shut down
I feel like you’re talking about myself AP and my ex DA. We ended up breaking up. He exactly said the same things you mentioned. I wish I knew this before!
First of all, Thais: I appreciate your work and the passion you have for wanting to help people with their relationships. On to the main point. I am not sure I subscribe to this school of thought anymore. To me, at this point, AT (Attachment Theory) seems to be an overly naive concept that relieves people who are referred to as DA, and FA, of accountability and responsibility for their words, actions, and behaviours. AT places DA and FA in a victimised and entitled position where others have to be overly accommodating of their harmful traits and walk on eggshells around them. It’s such an exhausting concept to try to maintain because it’s akin to doing everything you can to give DA and FA *every excuse* in the book you can find to let them off the hook. I am quite frankly sick of it. As I see it, both DA and FA teeter between Cluster B and Cluster C personalities. DA’s are on the Narcissistic end of the Cluster B spectrum, and FA’s are on the BPD end of the spectrum. They both suffer on the subdiagnostic higher-end of the spectrum of AvPD as the term “Avoidant” in both archetypes proclaims. There are too many crossovers with the DSM-5 it would not be unnatural to make the connection. In addition to the shared fear of abandonment; emotional dysregulation; splitting; dissociation; lack of empathy, accountability, and responsibility for their words, actions, and behaviours; tendency to project, transfer, blame-shift, deny, dismiss, devalue, and discard, gaslight, stonewall, and so many other forms of emotional abuse -albeit it unintentional on the BPD spectrum: They both seem to be somewhat on the Schizophrenic end of the spectrum as well due to withholding and having imaginary boundaries, violations thereof, and internal disputes and dialogues whilst assuming their partner is a mind-reader. In other words, they are quite delusional and project this onto their partner. AP’s are Cluster C personalities. I think it’s unhealthy to excuse DA’s and FA’s of their words, actions, and behaviours as AT tends to do. Their very nature brings out the anxiety in any person emotionally invested in them. It’s extremely insidious and pervasive. There is NO excuse for the hurt such people cause, and it is definitely NOT other people’s responsibility to be patient with and regulate DA and FA archtypes’ emotions nor be the punching bag nor garbage truck for their emotional rubbish - past traumas, childhood experiences, programming, etc, call it what you like, semantics is irrelevant. All such people -DA’s and FA’s- do is perpetrate and perpetuate pain and hurt. That it is INEXCUSABLE by every account. As such, therapy is what ought to be urgently prescribed to these people lest they continue to harm all who cross their path. Edits: typos, lexical syntax, and nuanced connotations.
I think this goes slightly too far. I guess we've all had very different experiences of these people with these traits, and so there'll be varying levels of hurt and destruction involved, but it's important to remember that many of the actions they commit are involuntary, self-destructive, etc. These actions are not committed to gain anything from, and so there should be an element of sympathy. They do owe it to themselves and the people they're hurting to become more secure.
Wow. I'm a fa in my healing process and while I have been verbally abusive in the past I am not on the bpd spectrum and also, I am not an asshole. I survived long term physical and emotional abuse from my father until I was 21 and i left my parents home, and I was also not able to break free from the abuse until I was 28 cause my mother was still alive and I was visiting and getting beaten (I had no idea that I could break the relationship with my father, involve the police, set strict boundaries, I thought that being beaten was the price to pay to see my sick mom). I have OCD and cptsd. I decided to work on my healing because I was utterly disgusted with myself and i wanted to end my life. I was told by most of my ex partners that I was really wonderful but problematic to be with. They were right. Someone felt that had to walk on eggshells with me. For sure I said things that I'm not proud of. I am completely aware that the abuse I endured is not a justification for my behaviour. But I'm on my healing journey and I am no longer acting that way even when I'm badly triggered. I really think you misunderstood the sense of AT... This is an instrument for us to understand ourselves better and stop acting in the wrong way. But also for our partners to understand us better if we find someone who wants to put up with us. I am dating a secure person (I am now 40% secure myself and really proud of it) and I'm thriving with him, he gets to know me better and not take my avoidant or anxious behaviours personally. At the same time I'm working on not disrupting the relationship. I have been in therapy for some years by now and I'm getting better albeit not as fast as I would like. But attachment theory is what helped me most to heal and to thrive, along with cptsd healing practices
These are not easy issues to address or solve, which is why I thought the original post went a bit too far in disparaging the views of his adversaries. But I thought the comments were particularly interesting and sometimes helpful.
I wanna walk away from a terrible man who sucks for me but my BPD keeps me feeling bad and I need to fight against all of it and I get tired of fighting. I wish I could just Ditch this monster !!!🎃👾👺👽🤡👿💯😡😥🙏💔
I'm telling you, as a DA, that's where I am at right now. I am mentally drained. I don't care to talk every day, let alone 3 times a day. My AP has been supportive of my journey through this tough style, I felt the need to give him support by showing up in a way I usually don't, because I know he needs it. But it's too much. He dotes on me to others, something I don't care for. It's overwhelming and makes me feel exposed to others. I like to live in peace, privacy, and free to be myself 100% without pressure. I appreciate him, but I can feel myself slowly losing control of having order in my life. I don't know what to do without him feeling like I am trying to push him away.
@marinab2503 I see I wrote this 8 months ago... wow... I remember feeling that way clear as day. Yes, we are still together and even stronger! We have had some bumps in the road. Just about every month, it was something that was causing the relationship to fail. We broke up a few times. Lol I ended up seeing a therapist and ended up being diagnosed with anxiety. I have been through a lot. He's been my rock. He didn't abandon me, he loved me through a lot. A person has to want to change (me) and a person has to want to be with you (him). I'm inlove with him right now! We're closer then ever, and I'm happy with him. I challenge myself to manage my anxiety, triggers, and stress. I'm responsible for my behavior and actions, and no one else. Any other questions, I hope to answer.
@marinab2503 I also came to find out I was a fearful avoidant. Which is the worst kind. Anyone can change if they face themselves and work on themselves.
The anxious attached or fearful attached are likely to be people pleasers and have lower self esteem striving to find validation from their partner and going to great lengths to avoid rejection or abandonment. The DA can get their needs met while giving little back . I found my DA could switch on love and affection when she had a self gain agenda but switch it off in a blink. This is cruel and intentional. I was expected to be there for all her needs but when I needed support she vanished quicker than a bubble in a hurricane . A great wise man was asked " how do I get an avoidant to love me? " he replied what you must do is And always say
i can feel the pain in your comment. unfortunately, it’s not really up to us to determine who is or isn’t allowed to date, that’s a personal decision. instead of throwing all the blame on DA’s, i really think it’s a lot more imperative and important for AP’s and FA’s to learn more about DA nature so that we’re a lot better equipped to recognize them in the dating scene and pivot and leave the situation as soon as possible. a lot of AP’s and FA’s won’t admit it, but they have a dragging the feet problem where they see red flags and still won’t leave. we have to get better about that if we want to avoid more traumatic experiences.
@@phizzy123 it only took one relationship with a DA for me to learn this lesson and grow in spades. Because I chose to utilize my pain for something good. But the cost has been extremely steep. Six months later, I am still uncovering the incalculable damage she has done to me.
@@perspicacity89 me too, i genuinely empathize with you. i just got left by my DA just the previous week and we had been dating for 2 years. but honestly, even though it did hurt seeing that breakup text, i have never been more mentally free since the start of that experience. i feel like there’s finally attainable hope again, and i know that me feeling that way is confirmation that it should have ended ages ago. i really hope you are able to keep pushing with your healing, no matter how painful in the moment please don’t lose hope that there is better for you at the end of this tunnel.
2:30 applies to my DA lover and myself. Although I am more secure in any relationship. I know that she enjoys being loved and valued. And she is also strongly independent. I will never walk away from a relationship. I only seek to find the balance that works for sustainability
they think they soooo smart lmaooo, I’ve binge watched enough of these videos to figure em out 😈 I rlly do luv her tho, learnt a lot bout self love nd not giving a fuck
When it comes to attachment styles, it doesn’t really seem like any of it is fixed. I’ve been da with one gf and ap with another. And my overall score is secure. This info is super helpful but realize you can change.
Breaking up with my DA ex and getting back together as friends/fwb was, in hindsight, the right move. We just couldn't make it in a romantic relationship with our two opposite attachment styles. But after doing a lot of work on myself, I understand this person so much more in the time since we started hanging out again than I did during the entire relationship.
My prior relationship with a DA started as a FWB situation and was great until she started developing feelings and wanted to get more serious. Thereafter she pulled away out of fear of her own feelings I presume. Even the FWB thing will trigger their wounds if a DA isn’t working on themselves. My experience at least.
My now ex. used to demand that I respect his privacy, which I understand. However, he would have intimate conversations with other women and never mention me to them. I could not get him to understand that even though his privacy was important, it was hurtful to me and our relationship to portray himself as single. We broke up many times, and he ended up cheating on me, and I couldn't forgive him. But it started with his boundary and claiming I was violating it by asking about these other women. Huge red flag that I tried to ignore. I'm at the point now where I feel like I'm too old for this crap.
Yeah they compartmentalize in a big way. Mine used to tell me that the time he spent with his "female friend" had nothing to do with me and was not a threat. Till I found out he was sleeping with her. But it was okay because he didn't love her. Messed with my head in every way. They see their lives in little packages. No one gets the full version of them, just what they want to share. Won't attend a funeral or wedding, won't do holidays, won't do any of it and if they do, they make you feel like they gave you the world. I couldn't be put in a small box anymore so I left.
my 2nd bf was AP (I didnt realize it until recently and I always wondered why something was throwing me always off (turn off)). Him needing my approval was a huge turn off. Support is one thing approval is something else. Self-sufficiency and self-learning how to stand on your two feet are crucual. so yeah I dont see me being with AP
Yeah, DAs never get how it is for anyone else. Just run from the anxious-avoidant trap altogether. It's not even worth TRYING to make it work, the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. Unless the DA is actively working their ass off to become a former DA- which they will not do just because you ask them- there is only one way to win with a DA and that's to completely abandon everything you need and want in a relationship and accept that you'll never get any of it from them. The FA or AP partner does all the work while the DA sits back and demands their way. Any time they don't get their way they hold the whole relationship hostage by disappearing until they "feel better." It's like having a relationship with a spoiled toddler. They have absolutely no room for another person's existence, feelings, or needs whatsoever, so don't bother thinking you'll be able to resolve conflicts with them- they'll just turn anything you say around on you and make it all about them. It doesn't matter what a good communicator you are, anything that confronts their behavior in even the gentlest way is "criticism" in their world. They'll sulk their way through Christmases, birthdays, and events that are important to you or simply not show up at all if they "don't feel like it," punishing you for "making them go" if they do show up. Promises they make disappear into thin air as soon as those promises become inconvenient to how they feel or what they want, but don't dare hold them to their word because you're "not respecting their space." They spend the entire relationship competing with you and preoccupied with their "space," never appreciating the relationship at all, but then getting mad at you when you stop giving. They take and take all of the love you have to give and give nothing back. When the FA or AP finally starts setting firmer boundaries and telling the DA "no" to doing all the work in the relationship, the DA gets vindictive and spiteful and sabotages everything, leaving their exhausted partner to clean up their messes while they walk away with no consequences or remorse. And you will never ever get an apology or any accountability from a DA. Not ever. FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. If you're going to bang your head against that wall trying to make it work with a DA you might as well just go be with a narcissist. There isn't much of a difference.
I dated two DA's and two AP's. DA's have their issues, but I agree it's a huge turn-off when people overrely on me. If you think about it from a survival point of view, if an adult person is not able to contribute and show self-sufficiency they become deadweight to the tribe. You can not assume the full-time care-taking over an adult as an adult, without jeopardizing the harmony. Having to do so comes across like the other is an infantile. I dated some extreme AP in the past, and it is literally SO exhausting and stressing, how can I be attracted to that level of lack of self-management. At least when I dated DA and I had a rough time, they gave me the chance to take care of it, rather than I had to deal with them on top of my own issues.
@@howtosober FINALLY someone said it. my nervous system gets overheated if I have to deal with APs or FAs. Grantd FAness is part of DA but as you said "FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. " Lol i am having a giggle. You should turn this into a meme and post it on instagram cause it is EPIC :)
As an FA on the way to security, no. FAs lose attraction when we feel disregarded, disrespected, or dismissed. Which usually happens with DAs the second the power struggle stage begins, and with APs if we feel rushed into commitment.
Enneagram 3/8 dismisses emotions to not be vulnerable and reach goals. Whereas Enneagram 2/6/9 anxiously engages and clings to people. Does Enneagram type influence attachment style?
@@thehealingfairee Agreed. We are our attachment style before anything else. I am Enneagram Type 4 with a 5 fix (458) I am with an Enneagram 7 with a 2 fix (728). I find the fix number a Go-to or secondary Enneagram Personality Type. Type 5 is more avoidant than anything, whereas the Type 2 is more clingy. That's the underlying issue or major difference between us. I value Learning and Independence more than anything, just like an Enneagram 5 would. My partner is more Needy and Co-dependent like an Enneagram 2. The attraction which was once there, is now gone. I'm a Fearful Avoidant - once I go to the Avoidant stage, there's no turning back. I am resolute. The decision has been made.
Curious how to start communication again with a DA after this happening and not talking for some time. Also curious why they will not talk to you anymore after you've had a good friendship and then suddenly short text responses and you dont know what you did (if anything) . Its the worst to not know what you did to trigger a DA and have them go AWOL or stonewall you to distance and then lose the friendship and communication altogether. Have had this happen in friendships, just don't understand
I'd suggest to cut communication with a DA EVEN if you were friends before. If you both have insecure attachment then you cannot have a healthy friendship after being intimate. I say this from having heard this advice and lived it. I was in love with a DA and really wanted to be friends after but it really caused a lot of pain to both of us. Even if they say they want to be friends, they're still gonna be afraid of the initimacy and even if you (as an AP) say you wanna be friends, you're gonna still crave more intimacy than they're willing to give. Not saying you can never be friends but you will need to have a lot of time apart (at least a year probably) and you have to work on your attachment trauma.
@@TeshaWheel Not to blame you, but most likely in the DAs mind you did something or had an disagreement. Instead of saying what it was or is , they let it fester until something else causes them to start the deactivation phase.
Thais you have described me and my DA ex to a t! We're now in no contact its been a year he pulled away massively, blocked, rebounded and resents me. He also breadcrumbed me alot while we were dating. I miss him desperately and I don't know what to do or if I've lost him for good 😥😥
@@MoneySoul I don't know why the mystery, pulling away attracted me - Badboy image unpredictable...That with the amazing time we had physically. A predicable guy doesn't have the allure. But maybe I need to relearn that predictability is attractive
lol I am charismatic and I tested with Genius IQ as an AP, but all the people that tend to be attracted to me from these traits I wasn't interested in. Somehow the only person I ever connected with was a girl was like both AP and DA.
My dismissive avoidant ex was dealing with too much and they probably lost attraction after we had this argument. Though they were missing me and having feelings after few days, but now they again have no feelings for me. Is it possible for them to come back if they lost attraction?
So informative! But how to let my DA bf know these things and find out that he’s a DA, without making him uncomfortable? I’ve already tried mentioning that I’ve watched a lot videos on my own attachment style (AP) but he doesn’t really express any interest, and I’m afraid to go to far with him atm
Be direct. Ask for his opinion on the topic. Be kind and optimistic. I wouldn't have seen your need to discuss this. I am a DA. Tell him, that you are afraid that you could go to far. When my Gf is humble, she always gets from me, what she needs. It makes me humble as well. Good Luck.
If you want to spend your whole life working for your partner....that’s your choice. DAs will demand this and more. So if you feel that you have no other choice in life and have to sacrifice yourself so be it. This is not what a healthy, person does, so you will be in a permanent trap of your own making. Good luck!
Everyone is anxiously attached if someone goes hot and cold.
so simply yet so well put!
Yeah totally. I'm pretty sure I was securely attached. My previous relationships were good. Then my current one with my husband he suddenly broke up with me out of nowhere. Since then I became anxious about him doing it again, and so now I feel like I definitely identify as having been anxiously attached, because he now regularly does this hot/cold cycle 😒
@@hayleysmith287 same. That's why I don't believe it's a personality type. If you have a partner that makes you feel secure, you are securely attached. If you have someone lovebombing you, then going hot and cold or making you jealous, of course you'd feel anxious. Some people claim they can simply cut off the person and get turned off if their partner acts hot and cold...but for a woman who has slept with a man, it's hard not to feel attached.
@@taghazoutmoon5031 I don't believe it's a personality type either, it's emotional abuse and nothing else. I bet if people started using forms emotional retaliation these ppl will get their acts together. Sorry if I come off as cross, a DA just deactivated after lovebombing me and has gone no contact. My preeminent emotion as of now:
....rage....pure FCKNG rage...
@@taghazoutmoon5031 i wonder if thats biology. If a woman has sex with a man..if theres a chance she could get pregnant and he could father a kid to her..her brain realises this and possibly is attached. Some people it may take longer depending on their past experiences.
"I'm sorry but I don't think I can give you what you need" is a sentence I've heard from every single DA partner and friend I've ever had
exactlyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!
I've heard it countless times. Anytime I asked why they did this or that or expressed they don't seem too interested in knowing me or more about who I was or whatever, "im sorry, I guess im just not good enough or I guess can't give you what you need." Seriously, it's absurd. Always the victim
Just heard that when my DA broke-up with me recently...despite giving me so much for the prior almost three years.
I am a DA and I have said this to every partner. To be honest, I just don't understand why partners are never satisfied emotionally. It feels too much pressure to be responsible for the feelings, mental health of others.
It does not come from a bad place but from feeling too much pressure and responsibility.
@@charliegil2007your defense mechanisms to stop attachment from happening, no pressure being nice to the right partner just practice niceness. In a way we’re somewhat responsible for other’s emotions within balance, everyone’s needs look different just try to understand your partner and also express your needs
love comes with attachment and vulnerability, avoiding to be attached or to be vulnerable is avoiding love.
What made me smile today is "all APs have gathered here and they still wonder if their DAs will return, even after the emotional abuse, neglect and the discard they went through, nobody can love anyone like AP can, Hugs to my AP folks
Hugs back, AP man here, going through a tough separation with a DA women of 23 years. It's really tough. I'm trying so hard to reconcile.
after several months post- break up with the DA I can say I feel sometimes seriously creeped out at the notion I let this person into my personal space and took them to be a serious partner, with all the gifts and benefits one extends towards the person, and given the about face they did- in total 6 months, the length of the honeymoon period. In the abstract sense they behave like A.I. Artificial Intelligence. The deactivation is like a light switch - and this is what really turns one's head around - it is such an unnatural experience and I think ex-partners of DA's should take steps to take good care of themselves. The harm is real. This is your opportunity to take back your power, stand tall and stand up for yourself and know it is indeed a 'them' problem. They wanted you because you had love and empathy and many desirable traits and value. Always remember that. This is what drew them to you. You already have these things, it is they who lack. It is up to you to stand in your power and your value. It was always there. You can't force someone to see it, even when it is due to some trauma of theirs. As for you, you are now armed with a greater knowledge about the types of people there are out there in the world and who you need to avoid to keep yourself whole and safe. If love is what you're after, literally anyone else can better meet you there, and is better than this choice
thank you for this!
The a.i. comment got me. It was giving uncanny valley😭
Thank you for this ❤
Hit the nail on the head with this, I was told by my D.A that I was the complete package and then after a petty disagreement she threw in the towel without resolving it, I couldn't get her to communicate, they lack mature emotional skills, lack empathy, cannot bond, they're Capricious, if you see any signs of this then save yourself and get out, you can't fix them they're not worth the effort
@@waynejenner3635 Anyone in their rational mind would reject without hesitation when one is tossed aside willy nilly - and one must never look back - it's the emotions one feels that make it difficult - so just remember emotions pass and act as a true advocate for yourself - the only sane and healthy response is to save yourself (as you say) and never look back - consider yourself educated just as if you had escaped a scorpion
I feel like it's important to add the caveat: they have to want to be with you. No amount of patience or communication will change it if they don't.
That is true also true along with any other attachment style too if they don’t want it no amount of work and compromise will do anything to fix it or make it better
This is hard to accept tho completely true
No shit Sherlock
@@TheRumpelstinskin hope you're ok.
True. I feel at some point they give up because they aren’t willing to do the work as they have the expectations of things to be “easy”
I'm so glad I broke up with my DA. What a fucking nightmare.
No one deserves to go through that.
Bat they’re glad to see the back of you too
Hmmmmm
The best way to meet the needs of the dismissive avoidant are to develop a deep sorrow and Compassion for their core wounds.
Secondly always study their body language and tone of voice to ensure you're not causing them any deep pain. Keeping a journal and check list is useful to study in bed while they are reading or turned aside or in deep slumber
Never say I love you more than once a fortnight as this can trigger deep engullfment issues. Never stop saying I love you once a fortnight or you may trigger deep core feelings of being inadequate. Maintain minimal eye contact as this sometimes triggers a feeling of their boundaries being violated.
Communication by notes can avoid misunderstanding and allows the DA to attend to your needs at a time when they feel ready to read the note. Never push any physical needs on them. Bromide is useful in some cases.
Going to expensive restaurants once weekly does help but only if you go on seperate days. This has the added advantage as you may meet the love of your life there.
I am with a DA and currently studying to join a monastic order
as years of solitude and abstinance has allowed me to discover my true calling. God bless the DAs of the world.
That’s a good one😂 you are building irony so slowly and in such a clever way I totally got into the trap of believing you and reading this with all seriousness. Bravo!
Brilliant. Genuinely made me laugh out loud.
Way to much work for a person to do for someone who is oblivious to their problems & all the heartache that you will go through to accommodate these adult toddlers who never really amount to anything...the time, effort & the commitment that you devote to these people are worth it, it will leave you depleted & exhausted beyond belief.
This describes 1:1 how my relationship with my DA ex ended. He asked for space, I gave it to him. But at some point, I was so worried (because he said he was having depression and self-harming) and so lonely that I texted him. That was when he told me he couldn’t give me what I need (affection) and I couldn’t give him what he needs (space). It turns out that while I tried my best given my own anxiety to give him space, he went to another woman to find solace and cheated on me. He didn’t acknowledge his issue to work on and I guess he will never do. This type of partner and relationship is destructive on so many levels. They’re hurt from their past experience. Why don’t they work on healing their wound but go around hurting other people instead?
Why they don’t work on their healing and keep hurting people is a big question I’ve been asking myself a million times.. I think if they’re self aware at least to an extent, there’s a lot of shame for who they are. They know about their shortcomings but don’t know how to overcome them at the same time.
My DA told me at the beginning that the most important thing for him in a relationship is „understanding“. What a strange thing to say, I thought. Now I know, he didn’t know how to handle his inner turmoil, so he hopes that someone else will handle it for him. What a big misconception out of fear and shame. It really just can’t work that way.
Therapy is always an option, they are aware of that. But it’s very painful and tedious, so it’s much easier to just carry on and hope for „the one“ that gets you and doesn’t make any demands. Very sad.
the way thais explains it is, emotional literacy to them is like speaking a foreign language. like if someone asked me to speak Chinese . i would feel soo incompetent, and be painfully looking at the dictionary constantly. like i can't say what i want and express my feelings. that's what therapy is like for DAs.
@MangoOasis97 If I wanted to live in China, I would learn to speak Chinese. If an avoidant wants a healthy relationship they will need to learn how to communicate.
They don't realize they have an attachment issue. The anxious preoccupied person, heavily feels thier feelings and eventually may come to find attachment theory. Most Americans are still unaware of it. As an FA I never noticed that I was avoidant, I simply thought I wasn't that into the other person or things weren't working out. I think I am mainly leaning AP though. There are times where I have had partners become too clingy and it gave me unexplainable anxiety. But it's largely unconscious.
@@jessicamessica2271 That doesn't sound like AP, that sounds like DA.
Wish I saw this months ago when I politely expressed that one of my needs is consistent communication or a heads up when space is needed to which a DA berated me for random things I never even knew was bothering them. Fellow APs; be careful when expressing your needs to a DA as you'll get burned & heartbroken and the pain is beyond confusing. Hopefully you take it all as fuel to become more secure and a better human.
True. Till I found this DA attachment I was feeling really bad and so depressed that I had made so many mistakes, mistakes that in a normal case would no way be near a deal breaker. Maybe a small talk or argument but definitely not erecting a stone wall , an impregnable stone wall. They dont dump either so very confusing are they with you or not . Its hard .
I too have experienced this.
I’ve approached by trying to be gentle, non blaming, just “I feel” statements. I got the im sorry apology. Which was good. Thereafter, I got XYZ mistakes I made that caused them to feel ABC. And issues I didn’t know were issues. And I felt stumped because I genuinely apologized & that I wished we could talk about them so we could meet in the middle.
I am so upset about my DA who I have dated for 2 1/2 years. In the last year she has broken off with me 5 years and come back each time. But I am utterly exhausted and disgusted. This time I will not be available when she comes back
I have not closed my heart but begun to see gateways like this as screening mechanisms that I'd like to test early, not recipes for heartbreak. I am now mostly secure with a little AP remaining, and while this would sting, I would take it as a gift that this person does not have adult level coping skills and is not someone I want to date
Going through a very similar situation. Almost to a T.
After 17 years, I realize my partner will never ever meet my needs. I'm tired and I hear everything said...at the end of the day I can't force (nor do i want to) someone to do their part. I've said everything I needed. I've put in the work. There's nothing left.
They never will because they will never take accountability for their abusive behavior. They also will never do the mental health work to change, as that would be an acknowledgment of being ill and causing pain in relationships . They’re diabolical and psychotic.
I will. I just found out that I have this "DA" thing. I cried so much when I realised what's going on with me. Im going to fix this, because I deserve and my partner as well.
I am so glad to be learning about DA’s. For the longest time, I couldn’t figure out what it was in my situationship. It was a lot of love bombing in the beginning. We connected on a great level. Then it got to where the other person didn’t want the relationship. It didn’t matter how nice I was, how much I tried, they just would gaslight, hot and cold, up and down, and told me it’s my fault I started developing feelings. Yeah can’t help but have feelings for someone you have a connection with. Then the person acted like they weren’t responsible for anything or my feelings despite telling me good things. They eventually started wanting to break up at the slightest disagreement, saying the can’t do confrontation. They would run at the first mention of my feelings. Would call me crazy for feeling the way I was. They would give bread crumbs.
I have made the decision to no longer pursue this person and what a relief. I feel so much better. It’s an emotional roller coaster dealing with people like that. Glad I’m no longer falling for the mess.
Dear Thais
Thank you again for the great video.
All these things work only if the DA partner wants to work for the relationship which often isn't the case. Moment you ask a DA to meet your needs they call it quits or call you needy. A relationship with a DA is a waste of your life unless they put in the work to become secure and meet you half way
Million percent this
In my relationship it seems like one issue a year. Takes a year or so to resolve to where we are both satisfied. One last one from the beginning. This is the third year. My boyfriend only spends time with his adult children on his birthday. Ive felt really left out, cuz i just get a .. hello i just got in..at 11pm.. wanta talk for a while .kind of thing. It really bothers me. Two years ago he exclaimed.. i love birthdays!! I could have clobbered him lol.
Just celebrated 9 years with my DA... It's been hard.. Really hard at times... But something has kept us together... Thias has been a big part of that, she's taught me so much and i owe great thanks to her and her videos....it's meant we have grown closer together and individually and as a couple we have succeeded... We'll never be perfect, but no couple is 100% perfect...
I never thought we'd get to this stage... Living proof that AP/DA CAN WORK.... 💕💕💕
Congratulations..!
How did you draw the DA into meeting your needs?
Can you please share your specific strategies?
Rachel. Congratulations. I'm an AP married to da for 14 years and I know how hard it can be. Kudos to you.
If you became healthier you would not be interested in your DA anymore.
You are stuck in the addiction so you keep the roller coaster ride going. Best of luck
@@unknownforce7517 Exactly. Nearly 5 years of bullshit I ended it one month ago feel so much happier. You can imagine the roller coaster it's been
Congratulations Rachel! If your relationship works for you then pay no attention to the naysayers.
"What draws them in and increases attraction for them is the same thing that will eventually push them away."
Yes. Because eventually relationships are supposed to develop depth, and commitment. They don't want responsibilities, they don't want commitment, they don't want to care, they want to abandon as soon as they get the urge to do it.
Before you ever even consider dating someone who is DA - they need to be working on themselves, conscious enough to know what they're doing, and actually desire a relationship with you.
If not, your wasting your time, and you are likely going to be abused by the end of it. They are literally attracted to people that heal wounds that they are unaware of/ do not want to be aware of or heel themselves. 🙃
This is crazy… at that point they need to see a therapist
@@stormyskyz7881or talking to their mother.
Almost 19 yrs with my DA. We did the 2 yr cycle over and over. I was aware of the pattern around the 3rd time and it became worse and we'd physically separate for months then start over. Last time was 4 yrs ago. I began searching the "how to get her back" videos and started learning intersexual dynamics. Online coach told me I was in a textbook example of anxious/avoidant trap. With the help of a lot of books, this channel and a few others, I learned attraction, behavioral and evolutionary psych, and attachment. I became more secure, didn't take her behavior personally, and kept an eye on her attraction level for me. Spent a lot of time sitting in my anxious state self soothing. Painful stuff. Our relationship now is the most fun I've ever had with a partner. We mess with each other, play every day. Intimacy is often and better than it ever was. I'm actually a little weirded out because she wants to touch, cuddle, hug and smack my butt. Not used to that at all. I know it's because I make her feel safe. We don't text often and wait to share when we're home. I let have her space. I speak my mind immediately if something bothers me and no longer walk on eggshells. Maintaining attraction in an LTR and knowing how to do this with a DA made a huge difference.
dude im so happy for you thats amazing. i wish to have the same some day.
Thats wonderful!
When you say you kept an eye on her attraction level, do you mean that if you noticed it was waning, you would pull back and give space to allow it to build back up again? Or what did you do when you noticed it going backwards?
That's amazing. I am so happy for you. Did you or she ever get counseling either individually or together? What do you think helped the most?
What are your script?
@@hayleysmith287 Good question! I wanna know too @Hal Kangas I'm currently in the push pull dynamic and need some help. Thanks!
So basically let your avoidant partner leave and move on with your life. Because they will not fix themselves and be with a new person every 1-3 years for the rest of their life cause they can’t stay with one person forever that’s the conclusion I have come to I’m sick of this and I’m a secure person
Quit lying you're not secure if you're anything you're hurt it's obvious now I won't say you don't have the right to be hurt because I don't know your situation but what you seem to forget or not want to take into account is no one chooses their attachment Style so before you act so high and mighty looking down on DA's remember this they didn't choose to be emotionally neglected as a child and not having any models of real healthy, communicating relationships
@@everybodyhasissuesno, but they do choose to not heal
@@everybodyhasissues: They choose to keep emotionally neglecting others though.
@everybodyhasissues it's funny that someone stating their perception of the interaction between different people causes you to feel attacked by it to the point of callng them a liar in the same sentence of admitting you have no context. At no point do they act "high and mighty". I don't care what anyone's attachment style is, how you treat others shows your character.
@@everybodyhasissuespeople choose their actions. The DA could choose not to lie, not to stonewall, not to cheat, not to gaslight, not to nitpick. They could choose to better themselves, to self reflect, to take accountability, to go to therapy, to get help to overcome their attachment wounds. But in the vast majority of cases they don’t.
I’m sorry they had trauma in the past but that doesn’t excuse their behavior. They need to grow up and take accountability for their actions.
WOW ! That sounds like a great evaluation of a relationship that requires too much work. I'll just hang with my dog for now. Shalom
I think I'll do that too 😄
This is too real ... "I'm not able to meet your needs, what I do is not enough" hits home, and when distancing strategies don't work, DA feeling invaded
the problem is APs always are ready to work together and negotiate and talk. But the DA never shows up and ends up ghosting.
Exactly right. 💯
It’s hard to do anything when DA ghosts you without a word of explanation. This is emotional abuse and Anxious should leave at this point
This is abuse, so right
Emotional abuse
This is abuse
That’s easier said than done unfortunately. The DA knows they only need to show minimal affection to get the AP to come running back.
I actually leave her at this point just like you said.
I’ve never found courses with the level of depth, clarity and value than Thais’s Personal Development School. Thank you Thais, you truly are a light of understanding of teaching in both ourselves and our relationships. ❤
I'm beginning to believe that it honestly breaks down to...Emotional intelligence, accountability, and emotional integrity. It's inconceivable to say with one breath that you love someone and will always protect them. Then with the very next breath show pure disregard sprinkled with tolerance. Yet, the moment you inform them that you will not tolerate that type of treatment and they dont have to worry about “hearing from you”. Now, they want to open back up again!😠Seriously WTFudge! It's exhausting!🥴 And It's emotional abuse!
Yes that is emaotional abuse
You wouldn’t understand since avoidant dismissive emotions aren’t relatable unlike for FAs and Anxious folk.
At the end of the day you just have to move on
The adventure, and chase is over once you both know everything about each other. You are both absolutely content with each other, and accept each other’s ways! Perfect 👍 No more drama! Just being content for the rest of your lives with each other is the key thing!
I’ve a close friend who’s a DA. They made it clear they didn’t want a relationship. I still let myself go to far and it drove them away. Months later they reached out to me and since I’d Ben working on myself we were able to reconnect. They have shown signs they are also working on themselves. I know my boundaries now and understand my DA friend so much better, thanks to this channel! Things are better than ever for the two of us. 😌
Good Work!
Me too, I'm a AP & he DA, he initiated yet said he didn't want a relationship also, but confusing mixed msgs for me & when I questioned he would back right off which sent me/my abandonment wounds spiralling & does not express himself, (he has wounds too) is so hard for me working together closely also, I know that we have connection, yet I feel a bit of resentment with no answers & a few weeks ago I said "what is going on"? Do u want to just be friends" & he said yes, yet I know if I allowed to let something happen, it would, I still hold strong feelings for him, yet I get to attatched....what did u do to work on yourself please?? I have stepped back but feel like its all his way "friends"! But maybe that is just my anxious attatchment & maybe that scared him off, yes what Thais says here is exactly what he has said/done all along...he's so used to being alone, scared.a gypsy...etc etc I'm hurt that he can just mask & switch on/off & feel hes just using me cause he knows me/my vulnerability/kindness/love 😔🤔 where I am confused is he said that his childhood was fine, mine wasn't...its exhausting/confusing, he knows what I feel/who I am....
@@pure-pisces4512 It’s hard but I accept that we are just friends even they they show all the signs, do all the things, that express love. So I try and focus on other activities I enjoy and when we have our “moments of closeness “ meaning things are really really great for a few days, I then back off. Give them space. It’s taken awhile but it works. What’s really interesting is there is someone else who I know is also really into them and I see them going overboard and getting pushed away. They shut down towards them. That helps me know that I’m doing the right thing
@@ew1258 wow when we have to compete or fight for, or beg for "someone's" affection and/or time. 😓
@@pure-pisces4512 huh all his way "friends"?
Dismissive avoidance is not something that can be worked with in a healthy way unless they truly want to change. It is a pathological lack of investment in the relationship coupled with the bait that they may eventually want you... and to invest. They won't. We don't live long enough to waste years in situations where we aren't wanted.
Ambivalence is the most dangerous interaction. Anyone would struggle with this.
As an ex-a-bit-AP who's become secure, I tried to have a relationship with a DA. Of course beginnings were great, knowing the whole situation (years of psychology) I cautiously pulled away each time we had "more than usual", like a long weekend or more time spent together, or more intimacy during sex, used facts not feelings, never laid on him for anything, but it was still too good for him obviously : he managed to cheat on me with his ex. Who was "too needy", of course, as he described her.
I didn't blame him, saying "It happens, all good", but then he said that it was her fault (coping mechanism for guilt, I know) and that "he didn't want drama so let's not talk about it" (again... I know). I said OK, to keep things calm, hoping that one day we could just have a chat about it.
I really endured for a while (my countdown was 2 months) the no intimacy, no support, no sex, the silence, the "do this please" then "you shouldn't have done that" with the "I never told you that" and millions of other things, until I gave up the last day of the countdown when I realised that he was just not even at the start of working on himself, not even aware of his issue. I had actually asked a mutual friend he trusts and gets along with, to talk to him, casually, about attachment styles and how the website freetoattach.com helped him a lot (a strategy we thought about to make him at least have a glimpse on it), and he said "I don't know what this is talking about". He is a great person, with a beautiful soul and a delicate heart, but his case is extreme, a summary of all the things DAs do to be considered as assholes.
I know it's not their fault. But not everybody can endure so much frustration and pain for a long time before they see changes. Not being close, OK. Not having any of your needs fulfilled, cheating, lies, no apologies, not responding to texts, and for me spending hundreds of hours studying DAs "how to cope strategies" and walking on eggshells day and night.... I gave up. Pretty sure that now I'm the Phantom Ex...
its so interesting as an FA I can feel both sides
Exactly I've been on both sides of this, depends on the relationship
@Anthony Johnson trauma, essentially
@Anthony Johnson very confusing for us
I have a hard time feeling the DA side more than the AP side.
This is why they need to be alone and to leave people alone I was in a lonely relationship with one it's a nightmare hot cold etc and I'm secure tried to love and support I understand their child hood I have a lot of empathy they are very close to narcissism so I chose to detach I loved him so but I'm done again they want to be alone bless them with your absence I'm done won't ever deal with another I'm now healing.
Thank you for your content. My girlfriend has been opening up so much and we are communicating (very openly and well).
I know avoidants aren't good for everyone but as someone with an anxious attachment style who's making an effort to be secure I think dating my avoidant has helped me grow and learn to be more confident in myself and to try to meet my own needs instead of just wishing others would and being mad when they didn't. Now when my avoidant takes care of me (which has upped in frequency significantly) its just the cherry on top.
We made each other better and stronger both emotionally and physically. It was heart wrenching but even if we broke up today we would both be better for it.
Thank you.
Long Distance Relationship: I deserve at least 35 minutes on the phone and a birthday text. My DA made me feel like saying this was attacking them. Good riddance.
that would be hard to beleive if i hadn't had the same experience... good riddance for sure
God, LDR with a DA...absolute worst. Been there ,done that, got the t shirt. Never again.
Yep, they perceive expression of needs as trying to control and attack them. Really, no matter where their wounds come from, the behavior is just plain flat out SELFISH.
Avoid long distance relationships. It's hard enough to make a normal one work. I've also found avoidants LOVE LDR--another reason to avoid them.
Mine just ended. I called him out on a few things, he accused me of attacking him and blocked me everywhere. Last time I was with him, he acted like he hated me. I flew all the way to Italy so he could treat me like shit.
Starts with: You're so kind and giving->you want some of it back?->you're saying there's something wrong with me!->I feel trapped and you're too needy ( I can get from you but not vice versa)->I can't "do" relationships->you deserve better! ( You do-believe him/her if you see it early enough).
As so many commenters have said, if the DAs want to make these adjustments, they can succeed beautifully. It's sad when they have no clue that what they see as crossed boundaries is just the normal emotional negotiations of all relationships, or when the APs can't see past the hurt to what's driving the DA's and their own actions (easily said!).
Thank You, Thais Gibson, for your incredibly in-depth understanding of the dynamics at work in relationships of all types. Thank you so much for sharing all of your knowledge. And another thank you, additionally, for giving so much to us all, free of charge.
Your videos are valuable beyond measure. This information is very much-needed, by most humans on the planet. And I appreciate the warmth you continually offer. There's not an ounce of judgment anywhere within your realm. Your ability to soothe is just wonderful. Thank you to you AND your team.
I find it hard to give a damn about what they need when they don’t want the love you give or give it back…
I use to think everyone deserved love...Not DAs...They will take and take and never return it. Always having one foot out the door. These people are not capable of connection...I can only conclude its because they dont want it.
Often they see no problem with their behavior and will blame you for everything.
Ive read that the vast majority of people on dating website are avoidant..Hmmm..I wonder why
Dude! I've run into at least 3 DAs on online dating. I'm wondering if the lack of effort they put into relationships is why they end up online... no one wants them in their social network? Wow
@@RnBkeyz and soon you were running the opposite direction..lol. I do believe on some level they desire connection and love...but they are totally oblivious as to why they havent found it
@@sunspiral79 not only oblivious but they don't even wanna know. Pointed it out as gentle as I could but somehow flipping it back on me was the only way to make sense of what I was saying..
As an AP I’m completely fine with 1-2 one liner texts in the morning/during the work day to touch base. Later in the evening I’d prefer to touch base again or have a conversation.
Now imagine you have a guy who doesnt text you for days..
Let me tell you something, you dont need to watch all these videos trying to understand why a DA does these things. The only person you need to truly understand, is YOURSELF, and your needs.
DA's will NOT meet your needs for a healthy, secure relationship - so why tolerate it? love is not supposed to be difficult. You can spend years wishing and hoping with a DA and for what? tears, headache & time lost, that slipped right through your fingers - and guess what? you'll never get that time back.
Trust me when i say, that once you truly love yourself, and respect yourself, you will see that nothing about the dynamic with a DA or FA is attractive. You will see that life is better out there with someone else that will love you, and give you what you deserve.....set yourself free.
Perfection. Thanks for saying this- yours should be the top comment!
Lol why does it seem like most men are DAs?
thanks ...... I think I really needed this
I don't understand exactly why I was so head over heels for someone with DA
The more time that passes, the more I lose myself
@@Master0fHamsters I was able to heal some of my attachment by keeping myself busy until I saw this person again. I felt secure in our feelings for each other now that we’ve had some space. I hope you find a way to feel more secure.
THISSSSS
A relationship with a DA isn't a fully functional relationship. They don't want commitment. They don't want responsibility. They want their needs filled, and once their tank is full, they want you to essentially fck off until they need you again.
I was married to one for years, you get no where with these people.
I've now been in a relationship with someone who is secure for the last 6 years, and it's been one of the most wonderful experiences of my life. No begging for love, no begging for 5 minutes of time, no waiting for them to never text me back.... I'm just freely and lovingly given the things I always wanted.
Sorry if you're a DA, go to therapy. I'm in therapy for my own issues, but I don't use my own issues to harm others, especially those I'm supposed to love.
Once you realize you are dealing with a DA, drop it. You are WASTING your time.
sending love and support to all :) have a blessed thanksgiving to our Canadian family members. namaste xx
exactly what happened to my current ex... she was totally drawn towards me in the beginning when i showered her with care and attention but as time and months goes by she starts to pull away more and more and i push more and more... she also said she can't give what i wanted.. we did discussed about our needs and boundaries in the end she still ended things with me she said she felt i can never change even though i was in the midst of trying to make changes to my approach to our relationship.
What happened since then? Did they come back?
A DA leaving you is the best thing that can ever happen to you
amen to that
Abso-fuckinglutely. I left him and its been two weeks, and i dont crave for him or miss him. He has made me not long for him by going away from me for extended hours and periods of time anyway. So why does him leaving me forever matter. He has trained me to he happy in solitude, independence and freedom, i dont need him.
We know.
Amen
A DA leaving you is the best thing that can happen to them. Leach
I wonder what would happen if an avoidant expressed a need for sexual interaction and the AP said, "well, that is your need to meet. I am not capable of meeting your need."
Then they’d be like cool deuces lol
You will be giving your blessing for them to go and find someone who will meet that need. Not that they needed your permission because they’re gonna do what they want anyway
Just run from the anxious-avoidant trap altogether. It's not even worth TRYING to make it work, the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. Unless the DA is actively working their ass off to become a former DA- which they will not do just because you ask them- there is only one way to win with a DA and that's to completely abandon everything you need and want in a relationship and accept that you'll never get any of it from them. The FA or AP partner does all the work while the DA sits back and demands their way. Any time they don't get their way they hold the whole relationship hostage by disappearing until they "feel better."
It's like having a relationship with a spoiled toddler. They have absolutely no room for another person's existence, feelings, or needs whatsoever, so don't bother thinking you'll be able to resolve conflicts with them- they'll just turn anything you say around on you and make it all about them. It doesn't matter what a good communicator you are, anything that confronts their behavior in even the gentlest way is "criticism" in their world.
They'll sulk their way through Christmases, birthdays, and events that are important to you or simply not show up at all if they "don't feel like it," punishing you for "making them go" if they do show up. Promises they make disappear into thin air as soon as those promises become inconvenient to how they feel or what they want, but don't dare hold them to their word because you're "not respecting their space." They spend the entire relationship competing with you and preoccupied with their "space," never appreciating the relationship at all, but then getting mad at you when you stop giving.
They take and take all of the love you have to give and give nothing back.
When the FA or AP finally starts setting firmer boundaries and telling the DA "no" to doing all the work in the relationship, the DA gets vindictive and spiteful and sabotages everything, leaving their exhausted partner to clean up their messes while they walk away with no consequences or remorse. And you will never ever get an apology or any accountability from a DA. Not ever.
FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. If you're going to bang your head against that wall trying to make it work with a DA you might as well just go be with a narcissist. There isn't much of a difference.
@@howtosober mic drop boom, I hold no I’ll will against my ex, I saw the red flags my AP need to please and fix took over! Then I started setting boundaries and expressing my needs and she bolted and ghosted, did it hurt yes, I worked and still work on me I’m doing so much better! Now I can spot a DA miles away before I let my AP attachment take over!
@@howtosober you know it’s real when the DA leaves your life and your mental and physical health automatically improves. i will never again deal with another one of them.
This is so deeply insightful. I finally understand the man I married 32 years ago. Unfortunately, we are separated for 12 years because we could never figure out what was wrong with us. I wish I knew this a long long time ago. I would be willing to work on our relationship with the knowledge and understanding you have presented, but getting him onboard will require God to open the door and make a way.🙏
Thank you for this groundbreaking video.
My DA boyfriend told me as brutally as possible that he while he still has sexual desire and finds other women sexually attractive, he doesn't feel that way about me anymore because there is too much conflict. I asked what amount of conflict would work for him and he said (and meant it!): ONCE A YEAR. Let that sink in.
So basically... When DAs are done taking and receiving, they shut down. Then when they come back for more, their partner has to be available to give more to infinity or else they ditch them. 👌 Amazing form of passive abuse.
@CI: Exactly that. Once again, we're all adults, and while I understand the origin of the behavior (theirs, as well as mine), it's immature, cold and unhealthy to stand staunchly in their ways yet continue the relationship.
That's why we're more and more to say "Avoidants" is just another word for "Narcissists".
@@sailorPinata I hate it here!
I saw the title of one of her videos, "getting back with an avoidant" after you healed yourself, or something along the lines and I was left speechless. Haven't watched it and I have no clue what the point was.
@@ivia_ol8356 I do her courses on her Program and basically the DAs have to be willing to do the work on themselves too or else it is pretty much a dead end. But doing the work on yourself FIRST is the most important, most likely if you are healed and become secure, your DA wont even attract you anymore anyways. I REALLY recommend doing her courses it has helped me TREMENDOUSLY.
"How dare you critisize me! I dont like you anymore!" -DA
"You think everything is critisism dude. I'm just speaking my mind and your holding information until you blow." - FA
"SEE?! You make everything an argument!" - DA
"Discussions, even debates, are not arguments." - FA
(Silence, stonewalling) - DA
"Listen we ALL need alone time and ALL need a break sometimes. Just speakup if you need that." - FA
(Keeps stonewalling) - DA
"Ok I give up I am out." - FA
Waits far too long then tells everyone "I tried everything its just too hard. All he/she/them does is argue with me." - DA
KEEP WALKING FA!! DONT FALL FOR THE BAIT AND GET PULLED BACK IN TRYING TO PROVE YOURSELF.
lol exactly
Whew I felt this
If DAs are longing so much for independence and solving their problems themselves then it is up to such adult to go and fix yourself and stop crippling people around. My DA ex would not read or watch or go to therapy… for whatever reason. Even hit hard by life did not start the process of learning and personal development. It looks like stuck, stubborn, stupid. Pick whatever definition you like…
WOW!!! Interesting!!! Would love this scenario played out with a DA and FA, DA and DA, DA & secure!
They just found someone new to restart the whole thing
A vicious cycle. Crazy😂
Depending where you are on the attachment scale you can be all 3 at any time. If they don't communicate well walk away , find your balance .
What does the DA need to do? I have a lot of understanding for them but overall it is quite obvious that in relationship dismissive avoidants are highly dysfunctional and turn even securely attached people more anxious
So true. Where are the videos to help the dismissive avoidant become more securely attached? I used to be AP but now lean much more secure. I've grown a lot from the work I've done on myself over the last decade. And ended up dating a DA that love bombed me then dipped as soon as they saw the first sign of insecurity in me. It was a full 180°. This person actually knows they have some work to do on themself which is good. But also I feel like there are more resources for the people affected by DAs than for DAs themselves.
your videos are always on point. everything you said is true.
Loved this video. unfortunately it's late for me as my ex DA said literally what you said. " You want more than I can offer" while breaking up with me via text! Why do they keep coming back in this DA/AP trap if they feel this way about the APs needs?
Because we're all human BEINGS first and foremost and at our core our essence is pure love. The mixed energies within us speaks to our deep desire to WANT to BE love, to love and to be loved. But as this is a spiritual journey in the flesh we also carry the lifelong accumulated resistance to allowing this primal desire to BE. TO BE LOVE OR NOT TO BE LOVE...
I find when I approach my DA husband, his initial reaction is to say, “You want me to be someone I’m not.” If I am willing to give him space to work through the situation himself, and focus on myself, he usually responds within 3 days with a change in behavior showing he is trying to meet my stated need(s).
I think the initial response is more a defense mechanism of, “Don’t promise her something I’m not sure I can keep.” After he’s taken some space to soothe his initial feelings, consider my request, and do solo research on how to meet my needs, he comes back more prepared and confident within himself about his abilities.
Because at their core, even a DA desires love and connection. They just have a hard time maintaining it or believing it.
It’s beautiful that you have learned to work with this dynamic in your relationship. It takes a lot of patience but also the willingness on both sides to make it happen.
Let me sum it up in a very contrasting/ambiguous description. They want your love , but they dont want it. Its as simple and as hard as that. Ponder upon what i said to you and what that means to you. They want the best of both worlds , and they often go thru this "willing/unwilling" fight in their heads about how much control they are willing to relinquish and give up before they feel like theyve lost their own reality in a relationship. They want, need, love.
Then they dont. They run. Rinse, wash, repeat. So its a cycle. Question is how far are you willign to play and hpw many times over? Two choices. You can either decide you love them that much and you can take it. Or youve been tortured enough and youre ready to bounce.
You hav helped me so much in understanding myself and also my DA bf.
Always looking 4wd 2 your Videos.
Sending u love💌 4rom Papua New Guinea 🇵🇬 🙏
I'm tired of all those ressources centered around Avoidants's ego and little problems, like if Anxious didn't deal with a traumatic chilhood too. And it's always about catering to their needs too. It's really time they mature and learn to catter to other's needs too.
Yup big baby victims. Why learn and heal when you can roll in your poo. 😂😂
As I try to sort through my behavior and personality following a breakup for which I’m eternally grateful and relieved, I’m beginning to understand that I fall within the general definition of a dismissive avoidant.
I’m content with the conclusion of the relationship, and cognizant that I should have ended it months earlier. I was thoroughly miserable, lacked any attraction for my partner, and in fact began to feel contemptuous of her appearance, behavior, and communication style, though I was careful not to demonstrate it for fear of unnecessarily hurting her. I broke it off cleanly, respectfully, and very decisively. She was a wonderful person to the end, even telling me that I was the first ex with whom she’d happily remain friends. It was the last communication that we shared, and I declined to further engage. She’s better off without me, and absolutely deserves someone worthy of her. I don’t feel that a continued friendship would be conducive to our happiness.
I want to avoid anything like this occurring again. It was a first for me, which seems to indicate an unresolved issue with my previous relationship of 14 years.
A lot of relationship and behavioral videos seem to have a common basis in reconciliation between partners. That simply doesn’t apply to me in my case. I can foresee no possible impetus, rationale, or reason to reconcile with her, but I do want to gain a better understanding of myself, what triggers my behavior, and what sort of person I might find most symbiotic and mutually supportive.
How long were you with this person? Please don’t mind my asking. It’s been 14 yrs for me and I’m having a hard time understanding how I’ve just begun to struggle with this in the last 2 yrs of our relationship.
My stomach dropped reading this, Jesus Christ. So cold and mechanical. I have similar dismissive tendencies too, but only when I'd been thoroughly hurt by the person.
Sounds like you really have work to do... :). Yes, quite mechanical sounding as someone else said.
Hi Thais, could you if possible make a video on fearful avoidant and dismissive avoidant relationship dynamic with some tips/advices? Thank you for sharing your wisdom 🙏🏻💜
Theres gotta be one early on..keep looking. Shes practically covered everything imaginable!
This is a big eye opener for me. Thank you for breaking everything down this way. 🙌🙏
2 times out of a year is definitely not too much to ask this is exhausting I’m done.
Im DA and my husband is AP.... I love my husband and ive spoken of some of my needs but he is not consistent in meeting them and i get disappointed that i get triggered and shut down. Then i find it hard to meet his needs. I also can not move forward unless we can communicate CLEARLY of the issues and solve them with spelled out solution and ways to see improvement. But i cant just be all lovey dubby when i still feel tense from feeling like i was hurt and not understood (I now know this all from my childhood wounds but still I feel them now with him). I know love is not supposed to be conditional but i dont see it any other way. You meet my needs and then ill meet your. Its been a very hard 12 years and now i know both of our attachments style it all makes sense. So many cycles of up and down it's draining and he is burned out and i think out of love with me. Divorce seems like its around the corner. I dont want to lose him and i want to fight for it but im also scared that all we will do is be in this cycle forever. He doesn't seem like he wants to do the work.
I’ve been able to watch your videos and improve for the last 2 years. I have a Ex (on/off again for 3 years) who I believe is a DA. I’m an AP and even though I’ve learned, I still have been reaching out and wanting her to come back and for us to build and improve what we could be tho I’ve been stonewalled out for the last month. It hurts, I don’t want to be replaced or rejected, or feel like I did something wrong here. However, I’m healing and reframing myself and doin my best to improve my situation (and I’m also going through rough times after rough times)
Can’t carry them brother, they have to acknowledge they are DA. 6 years she left 3 times. Im done with that roller coaster, working on myself and now Im with someone who acknowledges and wants to meet and talk about my needs and I hers. Its healthy and no friction and there we talk about it in a healthy way. If she cannot acknowledge her DA attachment you are going to be in much pain.
@@MTG9878 man that sounds like the life. I’ve been on that self improvement journey for awhile tho at least now I can work on not hating myself and everything I do or don’t do
@@alexlovehall7796 its not you its her needs of others are foreign to them!!!
@@alexlovehall7796 first love you that has to be your top priority accept that you’re anxious and that past that brought you to that! My therapist made a great point it’s not your fault, now it’s your responsibility to mend it!
@@MTG9878 AYEEEE YOOOOOOOO you preaching right now. That is the first step so that’s where I’ll start
Trait variety explains why I only attract potential partners I am unattracted to. I have worked hard to develop in myself the positive traits I felt I was lacking in, so now only those who are lacking those traits are attracted to me; but they all have the traits I was never lacking in, so I don't feel any attraction to them. I guess that's an example of how working to improve yourself can damage your ability to find love.
Just run from the anxious-avoidant trap altogether. It's not even worth TRYING to make it work, the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. Unless the DA is actively working their ass off to become a former DA- which they will not do just because you ask them- there is only one way to win with a DA and that's to completely abandon everything you need and want in a relationship and accept that you'll never get any of it from them. The FA or AP partner does all the work while the DA sits back and demands their way. Any time they don't get their way they hold the whole relationship hostage by disappearing until they "feel better."
It's like having a relationship with a spoiled toddler. They have absolutely no room for another person's existence, feelings, or needs whatsoever, so don't bother thinking you'll be able to resolve conflicts with them- they'll just turn anything you say around on you and make it all about them. It doesn't matter what a good communicator you are, anything that confronts their behavior in even the gentlest way is "criticism" in their world.
They'll sulk their way through Christmases, birthdays, and events that are important to you or simply not show up at all if they "don't feel like it," punishing you for "making them go" if they do show up. Promises they make disappear into thin air as soon as those promises become inconvenient to how they feel or what they want, but don't dare hold them to their word because you're "not respecting their space." They spend the entire relationship competing with you and preoccupied with their "space," never appreciating the relationship at all, but then getting mad at you when you stop giving.
They take and take all of the love you have to give and give nothing back.
When the FA or AP finally starts setting firmer boundaries and telling the DA "no" to doing all the work in the relationship, the DA gets vindictive and spiteful and sabotages everything, leaving their exhausted partner to clean up their messes while they walk away with no consequences or remorse. Many times they will pull stunts like moving out without telling you or just ghost you altogether. However they leave, it will be like you never mattered to them at all. And you will never ever get an apology or any accountability from a DA. Not ever.
FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. If you're going to bang your head against that wall trying to make it work with a DA you might as well just go be with a narcissist. There isn't much of a difference.
Right on point. But I think because of their behaviour psychologically it makes you love them more. 5 months on and I still miss him, I have found someone else I hope I can develop real feelings for him and just move on.
I hope you have someone in your life now that makes you happy and fell loved 🦋
Amen. You are absolutely correct. Any form of asking for accountability, explanations or justification becomes a battle of whos rigjt and wrong. They never explain or apologize. And they make it seem like you are truly difficult to be with , even when you have given and given to the point you question your own sanity and identity yourself. When all your job becomes to be the bigger person and appease them just to stop the misunderstanding or bring things back to status quo.
In my case , i would gently even say "how do you think we can get best thru all these issues and meet halfway or compromise?" And he in turn would say, ive compromsied enough, you either love me for who i am or leave it.
In a healthy relationship , i feel like there is no "too much compromise" for the greater good of the relationship because both parties experiences and feelings matter. So its a continuous compromise of two people showing and deciding to make space for the either by understanding what you have to do to make the relationship thrive or reach an understanding as to where both people feel like the other is equally trying to show up and decide that the relationship is truly important to them and that no amoutn of compromise is great enough, but in the DA/AP dynamic, the DA oftentimes overestimates their role and their power by saying i dont need to do this much to keep someone, they will have to do more in order to keep me instead and this is where it becomes a one sided, unhealthy relationship.
@@trueblueimpersonations8949 I don't, I'm healing my FA attachment first and need to heal a ton of resentment about the egregious things he did on his way out. I don't miss him at all, but to take your petty gripes out on my animals??? Unforgivable.
@@howtosober oh wow 😮!, that sounds narcissistic and sadistic ! Yuck 🤢 that’s just awful. Best of heart felt luck to you ❤️
Yes, so very true - this kind of relationship is just a drain, and not worth the time, energy and effort.
I spent too long giving my energy to a DA, & i know it’s only because i didnt fully love myself at the time, but once he was gone, wow what a weight lifted off my shoulders.
My ex to the T first time she left it was I cant give you what you want. Second time same thing. Third time was when I brought up a need it was Im never enough. Then ghost me.
Its funny there needs had to be catered mine was the response thats a you problem.
Question, any one notice you could not have a bad day with you DA? If they had a bad day you had to acknowledge and be attentive to their bad day?
Yessss, anytime she had a bad day, I'd be there for her, but anytime i was having a bad day, she used to think it's going to be a conflict and shut down
I feel like you’re talking about myself AP and my ex DA. We ended up breaking up. He exactly said the same things you mentioned. I wish I knew this before!
First of all, Thais: I appreciate your work and the passion you have for wanting to help people with their relationships.
On to the main point.
I am not sure I subscribe to this school of thought anymore. To me, at this point, AT (Attachment Theory) seems to be an overly naive concept that relieves people who are referred to as DA, and FA, of accountability and responsibility for their words, actions, and behaviours.
AT places DA and FA in a victimised and entitled position where others have to be overly accommodating of their harmful traits and walk on eggshells around them. It’s such an exhausting concept to try to maintain because it’s akin to doing everything you can to give DA and FA *every excuse* in the book you can find to let them off the hook. I am quite frankly sick of it.
As I see it, both DA and FA teeter between Cluster B and Cluster C personalities.
DA’s are on the Narcissistic end of the Cluster B spectrum, and FA’s are on the BPD end of the spectrum. They both suffer on the subdiagnostic higher-end of the spectrum of AvPD as the term “Avoidant” in both archetypes proclaims. There are too many crossovers with the DSM-5 it would not be unnatural to make the connection.
In addition to the shared fear of abandonment; emotional dysregulation; splitting; dissociation; lack of empathy, accountability, and responsibility for their words, actions, and behaviours; tendency to project, transfer, blame-shift, deny, dismiss, devalue, and discard, gaslight, stonewall, and so many other forms of emotional abuse -albeit it unintentional on the BPD spectrum: They both seem to be somewhat on the Schizophrenic end of the spectrum as well due to withholding and having imaginary boundaries, violations thereof, and internal disputes and dialogues whilst assuming their partner is a mind-reader. In other words, they are quite delusional and project this onto their partner.
AP’s are Cluster C personalities.
I think it’s unhealthy to excuse DA’s and FA’s of their words, actions, and behaviours as AT tends to do.
Their very nature brings out the anxiety in any person emotionally invested in them. It’s extremely insidious and pervasive. There is NO excuse for the hurt such people cause, and it is definitely NOT other people’s responsibility to be patient with and regulate DA and FA archtypes’ emotions nor be the punching bag nor garbage truck for their emotional rubbish - past traumas, childhood experiences, programming, etc, call it what you like, semantics is irrelevant.
All such people -DA’s and FA’s- do is perpetrate and perpetuate pain and hurt. That it is INEXCUSABLE by every account. As such, therapy is what ought to be urgently prescribed to these people lest they continue to harm all who cross their path.
Edits: typos, lexical syntax, and nuanced connotations.
I've always thought FAs are BPD and DAs are autistic spectrum
I think this goes slightly too far. I guess we've all had very different experiences of these people with these traits, and so there'll be varying levels of hurt and destruction involved, but it's important to remember that many of the actions they commit are involuntary, self-destructive, etc. These actions are not committed to gain anything from, and so there should be an element of sympathy. They do owe it to themselves and the people they're hurting to become more secure.
THANK YOU. I - too - am sick of this.
Wow. I'm a fa in my healing process and while I have been verbally abusive in the past I am not on the bpd spectrum and also, I am not an asshole. I survived long term physical and emotional abuse from my father until I was 21 and i left my parents home, and I was also not able to break free from the abuse until I was 28 cause my mother was still alive and I was visiting and getting beaten (I had no idea that I could break the relationship with my father, involve the police, set strict boundaries, I thought that being beaten was the price to pay to see my sick mom). I have OCD and cptsd. I decided to work on my healing because I was utterly disgusted with myself and i wanted to end my life. I was told by most of my ex partners that I was really wonderful but problematic to be with. They were right. Someone felt that had to walk on eggshells with me. For sure I said things that I'm not proud of. I am completely aware that the abuse I endured is not a justification for my behaviour. But I'm on my healing journey and I am no longer acting that way even when I'm badly triggered. I really think you misunderstood the sense of AT... This is an instrument for us to understand ourselves better and stop acting in the wrong way. But also for our partners to understand us better if we find someone who wants to put up with us. I am dating a secure person (I am now 40% secure myself and really proud of it) and I'm thriving with him, he gets to know me better and not take my avoidant or anxious behaviours personally. At the same time I'm working on not disrupting the relationship. I have been in therapy for some years by now and I'm getting better albeit not as fast as I would like. But attachment theory is what helped me most to heal and to thrive, along with cptsd healing practices
These are not easy issues to address or solve, which is why I thought the original post went a bit too far in disparaging the views of his adversaries. But I thought the comments were particularly interesting and sometimes helpful.
your channel is the best relationship channel! Thank you for your help!!!!
As usual, very smart explanation. Thank you
I wanna walk away from a terrible man who sucks for me but my BPD keeps me feeling bad and I need to fight against all of it and I get tired of fighting. I wish I could just Ditch this monster !!!🎃👾👺👽🤡👿💯😡😥🙏💔
I'm telling you, as a DA, that's where I am at right now. I am mentally drained. I don't care to talk every day, let alone 3 times a day. My AP has been supportive of my journey through this tough style, I felt the need to give him support by showing up in a way I usually don't, because I know he needs it.
But it's too much. He dotes on me to others, something I don't care for. It's overwhelming and makes me feel exposed to others. I like to live in peace, privacy, and free to be myself 100% without pressure.
I appreciate him, but I can feel myself slowly losing control of having order in my life.
I don't know what to do without him feeling like I am trying to push him away.
What ended up happening? You still with this person?
@marinab2503 I see I wrote this 8 months ago... wow... I remember feeling that way clear as day.
Yes, we are still together and even stronger! We have had some bumps in the road. Just about every month, it was something that was causing the relationship to fail. We broke up a few times. Lol
I ended up seeing a therapist and ended up being diagnosed with anxiety. I have been through a lot. He's been my rock. He didn't abandon me, he loved me through a lot. A person has to want to change (me) and a person has to want to be with you (him). I'm inlove with him right now! We're closer then ever, and I'm happy with him.
I challenge myself to manage my anxiety, triggers, and stress. I'm responsible for my behavior and actions, and no one else.
Any other questions, I hope to answer.
@marinab2503 I also came to find out I was a fearful avoidant. Which is the worst kind. Anyone can change if they face themselves and work on themselves.
Could you do another video on the fearful avoidant testing behaviors? What is distinction between deactivation and a testing behavior if any?
The anxious attached or fearful attached are likely to be people pleasers and have lower self esteem striving to find validation from their partner and going to great lengths to avoid rejection or abandonment. The DA can get their needs met while giving little back . I found my DA could switch on love and affection when she had a self gain agenda but switch it off in a blink. This is cruel and intentional. I was expected to be there for all her needs but when I needed support she vanished quicker than a bubble in a hurricane . A great wise man was asked " how do I get an avoidant to love me? " he replied what you must do is
And always say
So GOOD THAIS
You're the DA whisperer
👌🏼😝🏆
DAs shouldn't be allowed to date.
i can feel the pain in your comment. unfortunately, it’s not really up to us to determine who is or isn’t allowed to date, that’s a personal decision. instead of throwing all the blame on DA’s, i really think it’s a lot more imperative and important for AP’s and FA’s to learn more about DA nature so that we’re a lot better equipped to recognize them in the dating scene and pivot and leave the situation as soon as possible. a lot of AP’s and FA’s won’t admit it, but they have a dragging the feet problem where they see red flags and still won’t leave. we have to get better about that if we want to avoid more traumatic experiences.
@@phizzy123 it only took one relationship with a DA for me to learn this lesson and grow in spades. Because I chose to utilize my pain for something good.
But the cost has been extremely steep.
Six months later, I am still uncovering the incalculable damage she has done to me.
@@phizzy123 at this point, it's really hard not to hate her.
@@perspicacity89 me too, i genuinely empathize with you. i just got left by my DA just the previous week and we had been dating for 2 years. but honestly, even though it did hurt seeing that breakup text, i have never been more mentally free since the start of that experience. i feel like there’s finally attainable hope again, and i know that me feeling that way is confirmation that it should have ended ages ago. i really hope you are able to keep pushing with your healing, no matter how painful in the moment please don’t lose hope that there is better for you at the end of this tunnel.
@@phizzy123 thank you.
I wish the DA I was with had wanted to sort through these things, but you can't make anyone do the work.
2:30 applies to my DA lover and myself.
Although I am more secure in any relationship.
I know that she enjoys being loved and valued. And she is also strongly independent. I will never walk away from a relationship. I only seek to find the balance that works for sustainability
they think they soooo smart lmaooo, I’ve binge watched enough of these videos to figure em out 😈
I rlly do luv her tho, learnt a lot bout self love nd not giving a fuck
Good Luck to all you DAs out there!
When it comes to attachment styles, it doesn’t really seem like any of it is fixed. I’ve been da with one gf and ap with another. And my overall score is secure. This info is super helpful but realize you can change.
This was very helpful…
Breaking up with my DA ex and getting back together as friends/fwb was, in hindsight, the right move. We just couldn't make it in a romantic relationship with our two opposite attachment styles. But after doing a lot of work on myself, I understand this person so much more in the time since we started hanging out again than I did during the entire relationship.
Same
My prior relationship with a DA started as a FWB situation and was great until she started developing feelings and wanted to get more serious. Thereafter she pulled away out of fear of her own feelings I presume. Even the FWB thing will trigger their wounds if a DA isn’t working on themselves. My experience at least.
My now ex. used to demand that I respect his privacy, which I understand. However, he would have intimate conversations with other women and never mention me to them. I could not get him to understand that even though his privacy was important, it was hurtful to me and our relationship to portray himself as single. We broke up many times, and he ended up cheating on me, and I couldn't forgive him. But it started with his boundary and claiming I was violating it by asking about these other women. Huge red flag that I tried to ignore. I'm at the point now where I feel like I'm too old for this crap.
Yeah they compartmentalize in a big way. Mine used to tell me that the time he spent with his "female friend" had nothing to do with me and was not a threat. Till I found out he was sleeping with her. But it was okay because he didn't love her. Messed with my head in every way. They see their lives in little packages. No one gets the full version of them, just what they want to share. Won't attend a funeral or wedding, won't do holidays, won't do any of it and if they do, they make you feel like they gave you the world. I couldn't be put in a small box anymore so I left.
my 2nd bf was AP (I didnt realize it until recently and I always wondered why something was throwing me always off (turn off)). Him needing my approval was a huge turn off. Support is one thing approval is something else. Self-sufficiency and self-learning how to stand on your two feet are crucual. so yeah I dont see me being with AP
Yeah, DAs never get how it is for anyone else. Just run from the anxious-avoidant trap altogether. It's not even worth TRYING to make it work, the juice simply is not worth the squeeze. Unless the DA is actively working their ass off to become a former DA- which they will not do just because you ask them- there is only one way to win with a DA and that's to completely abandon everything you need and want in a relationship and accept that you'll never get any of it from them. The FA or AP partner does all the work while the DA sits back and demands their way. Any time they don't get their way they hold the whole relationship hostage by disappearing until they "feel better."
It's like having a relationship with a spoiled toddler. They have absolutely no room for another person's existence, feelings, or needs whatsoever, so don't bother thinking you'll be able to resolve conflicts with them- they'll just turn anything you say around on you and make it all about them. It doesn't matter what a good communicator you are, anything that confronts their behavior in even the gentlest way is "criticism" in their world.
They'll sulk their way through Christmases, birthdays, and events that are important to you or simply not show up at all if they "don't feel like it," punishing you for "making them go" if they do show up. Promises they make disappear into thin air as soon as those promises become inconvenient to how they feel or what they want, but don't dare hold them to their word because you're "not respecting their space." They spend the entire relationship competing with you and preoccupied with their "space," never appreciating the relationship at all, but then getting mad at you when you stop giving.
They take and take all of the love you have to give and give nothing back.
When the FA or AP finally starts setting firmer boundaries and telling the DA "no" to doing all the work in the relationship, the DA gets vindictive and spiteful and sabotages everything, leaving their exhausted partner to clean up their messes while they walk away with no consequences or remorse. And you will never ever get an apology or any accountability from a DA. Not ever.
FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. If you're going to bang your head against that wall trying to make it work with a DA you might as well just go be with a narcissist. There isn't much of a difference.
I dated two DA's and two AP's. DA's have their issues, but I agree it's a huge turn-off when people overrely on me.
If you think about it from a survival point of view, if an adult person is not able to contribute and show self-sufficiency they become deadweight to the tribe.
You can not assume the full-time care-taking over an adult as an adult, without jeopardizing the harmony. Having to do so comes across like the other is an infantile.
I dated some extreme AP in the past, and it is literally SO exhausting and stressing, how can I be attracted to that level of lack of self-management. At least when I dated DA and I had a rough time, they gave me the chance to take care of it, rather than I had to deal with them on top of my own issues.
@@ronmexico8383 seriously dumb comment. It is NOT my job babysitting them or meeting their need to be smashed into "ONE" unit.
@@0Demiyah0 yup exactly that
@@howtosober FINALLY someone said it. my nervous system gets overheated if I have to deal with APs or FAs. Grantd FAness is part of DA but as you said "FAs and APs, do yourselves a favor and just heal yourself, then go find someone secure. Leave DAs to work their shit out alone- or with each other. " Lol i am having a giggle. You should turn this into a meme and post it on instagram cause it is EPIC :)
DAs just need to go somewhere and be alone unless he or she is sincerely willing to heal and do the hard work.
Do the same reasons apply when a DA is dating a FA?
As an FA on the way to security, no. FAs lose attraction when we feel disregarded, disrespected, or dismissed. Which usually happens with DAs the second the power struggle stage begins, and with APs if we feel rushed into commitment.
Lol it’s not even worth it. I think my needs were just too much for him and he couldn’t meet that. It’s simple
DAs do the bare minimum
Enneagram 3/8 dismisses emotions to not be vulnerable and reach goals. Whereas Enneagram 2/6/9 anxiously engages and clings to people. Does Enneagram type influence attachment style?
I think more so attachment style influences which enneagram type you are
@@thehealingfairee Agreed. We are our attachment style before anything else. I am Enneagram Type 4 with a 5 fix (458) I am with an Enneagram 7 with a 2 fix (728). I find the fix number a Go-to or secondary Enneagram Personality Type. Type 5 is more avoidant than anything, whereas the Type 2 is more clingy. That's the underlying issue or major difference between us. I value Learning and Independence more than anything, just like an Enneagram 5 would. My partner is more Needy and Co-dependent like an Enneagram 2. The attraction which was once there, is now gone. I'm a Fearful Avoidant - once I go to the Avoidant stage, there's no turning back. I am resolute. The decision has been made.
Curious how to start communication again with a DA after this happening and not talking for some time. Also curious why they will not talk to you anymore after you've had a good friendship and then suddenly short text responses and you dont know what you did (if anything) . Its the worst to not know what you did to trigger a DA and have them go AWOL or stonewall you to distance and then lose the friendship and communication altogether. Have had this happen in friendships, just don't understand
Me too
I guess ultimately all you can do is ask if something is wrong
I'd suggest to cut communication with a DA EVEN if you were friends before. If you both have insecure attachment then you cannot have a healthy friendship after being intimate. I say this from having heard this advice and lived it. I was in love with a DA and really wanted to be friends after but it really caused a lot of pain to both of us. Even if they say they want to be friends, they're still gonna be afraid of the initimacy and even if you (as an AP) say you wanna be friends, you're gonna still crave more intimacy than they're willing to give. Not saying you can never be friends but you will need to have a lot of time apart (at least a year probably) and you have to work on your attachment trauma.
@@roxiquicksilver this is great advice, I agree with you. I haven't spoken to them in over a year. And this is just a friendship.
@@TeshaWheel Not to blame you, but most likely in the DAs mind you did something or had an disagreement. Instead of saying what it was or is , they let it fester until something else causes them to start the deactivation phase.
Thais you have described me and my DA ex to a t! We're now in no contact its been a year he pulled away massively, blocked, rebounded and resents me. He also breadcrumbed me alot while we were dating. I miss him desperately and I don't know what to do or if I've lost him for good 😥😥
@@MoneySoul I don't know why the mystery, pulling away attracted me - Badboy image unpredictable...That with the amazing time we had physically. A predicable guy doesn't have the allure. But maybe I need to relearn that predictability is attractive
My ex DA was super charismatic, extroverted. I’m the logical reserved one lololol
Please do a video on DA physical intimacy. Libido and sex related.
She has.
lol I am charismatic and I tested with Genius IQ as an AP, but all the people that tend to be attracted to me from these traits I wasn't interested in. Somehow the only person I ever connected with was a girl was like both AP and DA.
My dismissive avoidant ex was dealing with too much and they probably lost attraction after we had this argument. Though they were missing me and having feelings after few days, but now they again have no feelings for me. Is it possible for them to come back if they lost attraction?
When attraction drops below 50%, then sell or trade.
Would you do a video on how to reignite that spark if this is the situation?
Yes pleasee
So informative! But how to let my DA bf know these things and find out that he’s a DA, without making him uncomfortable? I’ve already tried mentioning that I’ve watched a lot videos on my own attachment style (AP) but he doesn’t really express any interest, and I’m afraid to go to far with him atm
Be direct. Ask for his opinion on the topic. Be kind and optimistic. I wouldn't have seen your need to discuss this. I am a DA. Tell him, that you are afraid that you could go to far. When my Gf is humble, she always gets from me, what she needs. It makes me humble as well. Good Luck.
Is there a connection to a high functioning borderline personality disorder? I think my ex had this...
If you want to spend your whole life working for your partner....that’s your choice. DAs will demand this and more. So if you feel that you have no other choice in life and have to sacrifice yourself so be it. This is not what a healthy, person does, so you will be in a permanent trap of your own making. Good luck!