@@washingtoncommandcenter5541 it can vary, ie Edric Storm (raised in the stormlands, but fathered from a woman in the reach/born in the reach), Obara Sand lived the early part of her life in oldtown in the reach, Brynden Rivers was born of a riverlander mother, but lived in kings landing for a good chunk of his childhood. it certainly isn't a decreed law, and can vary it seems. i personally lean more towards Joffrey Waters, but yeah Joffrey Hill caught on with smallfolk and nobles im sure it would be his name.
As much as it would chafe Tywin's ass, with him alive, and Cersei & Jamie dead in this scenario. He's so pragmatic that he'd probably hang Cersei out to dry, play up his disgust with what they did, and condemn them. So he could appeal to Robert to legitimize Joffery as a Lannister just to avoid having Tyrion as his heir. All Dwarves are bastards and such. As disappointed in Joffery as Robert was, maybe he'd still have enough affection from raising him to do it. Then with Tywin molding him, he'd probably end up as Ramsey 2.0
@@washingtoncommandcenter5541 joffrey as lord of casterly rock would be interesting i think he would legitimize all 3 i could see them trying to arrange good marriages for the 3 so that way the lannister’s don’t lose influence
@@Jeppe_Plol that is not how it works .... So if the strongest warrior in the realm will do anything wrong no punishment for him because he can win a 1 vs 1 battle? Robert would punish jaime like what Joffrey did with ned
@@hiddendagger7291 When accused of a crime, you are allowed to demand trial by combat. It is a religious belief in Westeros where the faith of the seven is upheld that the gods will side with the innocent, and punish the guilty. Obviously if Robert would allow Cersei this, he would allow Jaimie the same. But Tommen later outlaws trial by combat, and the mad king named his champion fire, and chained Brandon and Rickard Stark to one another. So even though technically it is possible to win every trial if you are just a good fighter, it is true not every king upholds the same rules for trials. I would however expect Robert to just let him fight.
@@Jeppe_P If you look this as some personal thing it is huge disrespect to robert as a man ....like his children are not his children and his wife was fu*king her brother and on top of all don't love his wife and children and I don't think he would let them walk away just like that if jaime defeats Robert's champion in this what if scenario .... And if jaime wins would robert let cerci live like a queen and her Bastards as princes? When deep down he knows they are not his children? So that's why I think trial by combat will be irrelevant here robert would just want to kill them because he doesn't love them and there won't be any dispute for throne in future if he kills those bastards
I mean, it worked well. He was an awful king and an incompetent man. Apparently, he was a great warrior but that went to crap when he became fat and lazy. His mind was incredibly dull. Who knows? Probably wasn't the first 'attempt'. You only have to succeed once, and with an attempt like that, you can fail as many times as you can and nobody will ever know.
It’s highly implied in the books, that LF helped arrange for a faceless man to kill Robert as the make sure that the deaths look like accidents + LF knew how much money the FM charge for the assassination of a monarch.
I'd imagine the "plot" was more just a running thing they did every time he went hunting just hoping it might help cause an accident, and then it happened to do so right then for... well, dramatization purposes :p
I doubt Robert would resist Ned's news about the twincest. He hates Cersei and Joffrey, and Ned's news would be the perfect excuse to get rid of her and the perfectly satisfying answer to the question he rhetorically asks Ned "How could I have made a son like that?" Discovering that Joffrey is not, in fact, his son, would be completely gratifying to Robert, it would be a validation of him as a man. The news of the twincest would give him a fresh lease on life, what he would see as a chance to do things over, and get it right, he would be able to see himself as the victim of treachery, not an asshole who fucked up his kingship, marriage and family. As far as Cersei attempting to cast doubt on Ned's story, that's not going to fly. EVERY member of the Small Council, except Barristan, knows about the twincest. Pycelle admits to Tyrion that he allowed Jon Arryn to die to protect the secret. Littlefinger is not at all surprised by Ned's revelation. Stannis is the one clued Jon Arryn in. Varys obviously knew. Renly's ploy to set Robert up with Margaery can't work unless he has a trump card like the twincest to keep Cersei's kids off the throne. When Robert is being told something that vindicates his own self-image and lets him get rid of a wife he hates, disown children who disappoint him and execute a knight he resents, by his closest friend, a man with a sterling reputation for honesty, he is going to be VERY open to the news, and the sycophantic and self-serving members of his Council will all be lining up to verify Ned's news with the evidence that made them believe. Varys needs to stay on the king's good side, and the odds are stacked against the Lannisters at the moment. Renly is going to see a golden opportunity to push Margaery as the new Queen. If Stannis makes it back to court before Cersei's execution, he is going to attest that Jon Arryn believed it as well and offer the clues they had followed. MAYBE Pycelle keeps his mouth shut to protect Tywin's daughter & grandchildren, but as Varys notes, he loves his office, and he isn't willing to deny Ned information, like the title and a copy of the book Jon had been studying or his last words, which were clearly a reference to the twincest. He's not a slick liar or persuasive advocate who is going to be able to defend her or argue away Ned's points. And Littlefinger will want to stay in good with Robert, and with Ned, the better to bring him down, so he'll support Ned if he sees that's where the wind is blowing. I don't think Robert is going to let Cersei summon her champion to court, he's going to order the trial right then and there, with whomever is present and willing to volunteer on her behalf. That's if Robert even allows her a trial instead of killing her on the spot. Also, if it takes Robert long enough to get back, or Ned hesitates a bit before telling him, news of what Tywin is doing will eventually reach court, and then the Lannisters are in the shitter. Tywin is already in trouble for violating Robert's demand of an end to the fighting over Tyrion's capture. Robert ruled that the fight between Jaime & Ned in the street was to be the last of the violence and Ned was to order Tyrion released. By sending raiders into the Riverlands, Tywin is rejecting Robert's judgment and orders or else stating that he does not believe Robert will have his son released. Either way, it's an insult and defiance of his royal authority. Now, Tywin might argue that he had nothing to do with it, and people might have no choice but to accept his claim for lack of proof but Ned sent men under Robert's banner and in Robert's name to arrest Gregor. To deny them, or interfere with their mission is a crime against the throne and to actually resist them in arms or attack them is treason and effectively a declaration of war against Robert. When word reaches court of Tywin's ambush of Beric & Thoros, Robert is going to flip his shit, and that might be enough for him to repudiate Cersei and disown the traitor's grandchildren even without the twincest. Basically, the Lannisters were in huge trouble thanks to their arrogance and assumptions that they could get away with anything, and only Robert's death kept the consequences from coming to pass. Ned was NOT being stupid when he warned Cersei, because all the odds were in his favor. Cersei gambled the survival of her whole family on her risky plot killing Robert, and got extremely lucky that it worked out for her.
I would also say that it would be smart to keep Robert from killing Cersei. As much as he wants to she is more use alive as a hostage against Tywin. To keep the Lannisters in line Ned could offer the deal of Cersei and her kids being exiled to Essos and Jamie going to the Wall and joining the Nights Watch. Robert would still want them dead but they could also demand that Tywin cancel the debt the crown owes to the Lannisters. Remember the Kingdom is millions in debt to Tywin. Tywin would hate it all but if it keeps his kids and grandkids alive he would probably take the deal. If the rest of the small council backs the deal then they could convince Robert to accept it. Not only does this open up Robert to have to look for a new heir but Tywin would have no choice but to accept Tyrion as his heir. As heir to House Lannister Tyrion's prospects for marriage go way up and could lead to unions with Dorn, the Tyrell's, and even the Iron Islands. The field becomes wide open for Rob Stark as well since he doesn't go to war so doesn't get dragged into an arranged marriage or marry some random girl he meets while on campaign.
@@Wilahelm2 Not really. There is too much risk of Joffrey et al being used against Robert. As for Tywin, he's 3 times a traitor. There is nothing to be gained by making any deals with him. By raiding the Riverlands in defiance of Robert's decree that the fighting over Tyrion cease, and attacking the men Ned sent out under Robert's banner to deal with Gregor, Tywin has committed treason & rebellion, ans has grievously offended the king, and Houses Baratheon, Stark & Tully. Tywin is a dead man walking if Robert survives, and even if none of that were true, he would never accept the disinheritance of his grandchildren or the dissolution of the royal marriage that had been his life's ambition, and the disgrace for him that would come with it. Tywin is going down fighting a hopeless battle against the alliance that brought down the Targaryens.
@@Wilahelm2 I don't agree with a lot of what you said. I don't think Tywin would sacrifice valuable leverage for pawns/family members that aren't worth anything in that deal. Remember, this is the guy who values the family name over all, and rules mainly true his legacy of fear. I doubt he will save the kids, they aren't worth anything, Ned however will plead for their lives. Ned will plead for Cersei's live, but she has lost her favor with Robert, is ousted as a cheater, not bearing the kings kid but her brothers, meaning that marriage prospects for her after this would be low, even if she lives and returns to Castley Rock. The only one with value for Tywin is his desired heir in Jaime. But if he is to die or send to the wall, he is worthless. He is likely willing to resolve the debt (maybe partly) in favor of Jaime losing his position in the nightswatch, possibly his knighthood and maybe the nobles form of community service or something. But that's all. I also don't think Tywin would ever make Tyrion his heir, that goes against all he stands for. This is the man who when he was balding, shaved all his hair to keep up appearances. Among the other things he does to appear as a powerfull noble house. Again, the Lannistar name is all that matter to him, and to him, a dwarf etc. does not look good on the Lannister legacy. The marriage alliances are interesting indeed. Margeary as potential queen. Sansa is now single again and will likely marry into the Tyrell family or some family in the North as the Northen lords originally wanted. Rob is indeed a bachelor again, and will likely marry a northen lady. Thousands of lives will be saved as a civil war is higly unlikely, as nobody would really support the Lannister household above the royal household at this time.
@@Wilahelm2disagree, Robert may spare the children, MAYBE, but Robert having the choice to broker another uneasy peace with the Lannisters, and marching on and sacking Casterly Rock? He’s sacking Castely Rock, just like he sacked Pyke, just like he sacked Gulltown, and just like he assaulted Dragonstone.
@@Lillie-y7sAgreed, Robert wouldn’t be making peace if there’s a fight he knew he could win. The Lannisters are far from untouchable and everyone Tywin ever bullied or victimized would happily help Robert destroy them.
Yeh thats why i think it would be unlikely to happen. As then you're opening the door for a lot of pretenders, some might argue for gendry (for their own gain ofc) while others would go stannis and renly etc
Robert Baratheon seems to die at just the right time for his legacy. He will be remembered as a king who presided over a long period of peace and stability, but the consequences of his economic misrule, will manifest themselves under later kings.
@@GR-bn3xj If Biden had been a bit smart, he would have bowed out as a one term president. The whoever had succeeded him, things would have got worse, and we would have had the Baratheon effect.
@@PetersonZF Fight dirty when ? Tbh, if you're talking of his fight with Ned Stark, he was mad when a soldier stabbed him from behind (good change from the book) Jaime wanted to beat Ned "fair and square" to prove to the world and himself that he beat the guy who killed the sword of the morning (or so I interpret it all) And well, no matter how dirty Jaime fights, Barristan isn't a stranger to this. People must have tried that on him, and he's got the experience/knowledge to be wary of it. Could give jaime a slight edge, but not really decisive, I think Imho, the decisive factor would be plain youth. Their skills levels are basically equivalent, so what remains is physicality. And if Jaime can't outpower him or outpace him (speed of movements, but also including reflexes/reaction speed), then he simply can outlast him. Old Men aren't known for their stamina...
Or he would legitimize edric stone and marries him to sansa. Don't forget sansa is a superficial eleven year old. She would rather marry edric who is a bastard from a lady of house florent than gendry who's mother is a common folk. I think ned would likely agree to the match. I don't see gendry marrying sansa as they aren't really compatible. I think edric storm would be the one who is legitimized but Robert would keep gendry around. This could also form a bond between him and arya since they are much alike in reference in the books. 2 baratheon men with 2 Stark ladies. Robert would love that seeing how gendry is much like him and arya is much like lyanna.
People will not obey Gendry, his mother is a commoner, he did not even receive an education, he does not know how to rule or even read. I think Tywin will crush Robert
Great video! I feel like “What if Arya had Jaqen kill Tywin and Gregor” could be another really interesting scenario with huge butterfly effects on the realm
@@hiddendagger7291 i dont see dorne joining. He has a chance with the reach if he promises Jaimie to Maergery. He could strike first as the other armies need to gather. Hire the golden company from Essos. I doubt Robert would let him prosper if Jaimie and Cersei die. And he cant really afford to lose them.
In the books, Robb and Bran both have Tully looks as well, with blue eyes and auburn hair. Out of Ned's five children, only Arya has Stark looks. That's actually spawned a bunch of (pretty wild) fan theories about Catelyn's children being bastards, but no one in the series actually believes that. So, yeah, Catelyn is proof that a woman can have not three but four kids who look nothing like their father. Baratheon seed seems to be a special case, with all of his biological children having black hair and blue eyes, and all of his ancestors having similar trends.
I believe this is because the original Baratheon likely has Valyrian blood, it’s very possible his genetics or atleast the looks that Baratheon’s tend to have is set in stone, in the same way Targaryen’s more often than not have silver and purple/bluish eyes
Well they do say that "The seed is strong" so yeah, Baratheon genetics are very dominant and it's almost a no brainer that a child without at least black hair/blue eyes isn't a Baratheon child
“Even though she is a queen she is not in a position of authority. She is a consort…all her power comes from him as he has dominion over King’s Landing. The Kingsguard answers to him.” Someone should have repeated this word for word to Alicent and Viserys.
I honestly don't think Robert would bother with a trial. This was the worst kind of treason and a capital offense. As Ned describes it, what they did was a knife thrust at his very soul. Jaime and Cersei would die. Maybe the kids too, if he's not given time to calm down.
@@CatotheE murdering his wife based off of questionable evidence at the time really isn't good look for a king who got throne through usurping a tyrant. He needs to at least look like he's fair.
@@fightingmedialounge519 No. He wouldn't. And nobody would care. Everyone that knew the truth knew that Robert finding out meant certain death. And the paternity was obvious once the secret was out. Brienne's no schemer, but she put it together.
I would have figured the Lanisters would have chosen the Mountain as their Champion. Still, then I just thought the only reason the Mountain even won against Oberon was being of how cocky Oberon got and sidetracked he got by revenge. Baristan would probably be able to beat the Mountain with skill overcoming his strength.
I think the obvious go to is actually Sansa. It's horrific because she wanted a young Prince not an old fat King and Ned won't agree easily but one doesn't refuse the king. She's not far off in age from Margery and Stannis hates Mace and will be much more in favor of his brother having a good Stark union.
Sansa would be too young. Robert is older he needs an heir now, he also needs a new family to bankroll the crown. I think it would be Margery as soon as possible…
@@SCordova19 Maybe but I don't think the Cersai/are they bastards situation resolves terribly quickly. Sansa is eleven in the books and gets her moon blood while she's in Kings Landing not terribly long after everything kicks off. I think she's a viable option when Robert is considering a Queen.
@@Jinxness i definitely think she would be an option. And with Robert’s obsession with the starks I could see him consider it. But I think he’d see her as a child…and I think the Jamie Cersei trial by combat would resolve itself within two months. Robert would be making plans to marry while that goes on.
@@SCordova19 Ned would never stand for it. He treats his children like they are actually children, not marital coupons to cash in as soon as they are biologically eligible. He is not marrying Robert to his underage daughter, especially after knowing that he hit Cersei.
I don’t see Robert letting anyone fight the trial other than himself. In his prime, he could definitely beat Jaime but in the condition he’s in at the time, he stands no chance.
There is no scenario where I don’t see Tywin declaring war to save his children. If Cersei failed to assassinate Robert, she would take Ned’s advice and flee with Jamie back to Casterly rock. Robert was known for his temper and even the hint of betrayal from his wife and kingsgaurd would push him over the edge. She would not roll the dice that the 15 things that need to go perfectly for her to win at trial would go her way and take the safe bet and put distance between her and Robert. Tywin would have no choice but to calm his banners to save his house from extinction
But thats a war that Tywin would 100% lose so i doubt it. I could see him also openly judging cersei and say she cheated on robert but not with jaime (jaime is the only child he loved) or he judges them both and sucks up to robert so he doesnt kill joffrey and instead legitimizes him as a lannister so that tyrion doesnt become heir
I actually believe the scenario where Robert lives just does not exist. Cercei needs him dead, so she will probably find another way if getting him so drunk that he dies during hunting doesn't work. And if Cercei fails I think that Littlefinger would also attempt to have Robert killed to escalate the conflict he so carefully set up.
Good Job, you missed the point of the video, it's a what if and anything is possible, so yes this scenario does exist, if you don't like it, don't watch videos like this and focus on your homework kid.
Two things i think you're forgetting is that war was kind of already breaking out before Robert died. The mountain was raiding the riverlands and ned had sent men to arrest him, Tywin and Edmure tully were gathering forces as cat had already kidnapped tyrion. If cersie is arrested tywin outright rebels, i bet the iron islands would take the opportunity to do the same (maybe taking pardons to raid the westerlands) renly and the reach would still be a major factor in that balance of power. The second thing is that the eunuch was trying to start a war, he might help cersi or rather her children escape to Tywin. I think its very possible you could find Tyrion escaping the vale with his mountain clans and finding Tywin in rebellion and Joffrey or tommon under his protection
I respectfully disagree with your timeline. Robert would be told and with his fury he would lay hands on Cersei and Ned might be able to save her, but Jamie would not stand by. Knowing the jig was up he'd murder Rob just as he did the mad king and attempt to flee with Cercei and their children to Castlaly Rock. Ned would be wounded and morning his friend, and he would send ravens to Stanis who would call his Bannerman and take control of Westeros. With Rob murdered the Baratheon brothers would be unified by their shared desire for vengeance and Stanis would take Gandri as his ward on request from Ned. The Wolf and Stag armies would march into the land of Lions. With this going on Little Finger would have to alter his plans and attempt to assassinate Ned while also attempting to continue his plans with the Veil. I could see him manipulating Robert into a Lordship and marrying Catlyn's sister taking control of the Veil. He'd probably poison her during a dinner and make sure Tyrion has an escape back home to curry favor with the Lannisters whilst also getting closer to Catlyn.
@@kaievoke IDK honestly, if he did that would be a good catch, but I don't think he had bc the street fight between him and Ned was over Tyrion's capture and that went down Just before Robert got back from the hunt. He may not have had the time to get his men and supplies together yet. But you very well may be correct
Video suggestion: - What if Cersei was a man? Alternatively, what if Jaime was a woman? (Or we can do both) - What if Lyanna Stark survived? - What if Rhaella Targaryen survived? - What if the Targaryen dragons didnt die out after the dance? - What if Joanna Lannister lived?
One thing you missed is that though Robert is king, due to his disinterest in actually ruling, the Lannisters, Varys and Little Finger have the power. Majority of the kingsguard are Lannister lickspittles, LF has the gold cloaks, and I am certain Varys has many other knights in his faction. Robert knows that his power comes from Tywin considering how much debt the crown is in. Renly knows that the Baratheons do not have true power in KLs which is why he GTFOs when Ned refuses to capture J, M, and T before Cersei finds out that Robert has died. There is no way that LF will allow Robert to live because even if they were to get rid of the Lannisters, Stannis would be Robert’s heir. Stannis as heir and potentially hand after Ned, would clean house (ie kill Varys and Littlefinger) and if he became king after Robert, Stannis would def ban brothels, etc.. This is the reason why he urges Ned to make peace with the Lannisters- to wed Sansa and J, and Arya and Tommen, but Ned cannot look the other way to allow bastards to take the throne Robert won. So even if Robert evaded death by boar, there is def another plot in the works to ensure Robert is dead and Ned not in power when it happens. LF, after all, knew “offhand” what the house of black and white would charge foe the assassination of a king… So yeah the only way Robert could live and outwit the Lanisters is that Ned would need to have gotten word to Stannis and Hoster Tulley without anyone knowing, so that Stannis and Hoster could gather the Storm and Riverland hosts to march on KL before Tywin can march his armies from the West, and take the city from Lannister control and from LF’s city watch. Once they’ve secured the city, Robert and Ned could act
a more interesting one for me is if both Robert *AND* Lyanna survived, because if Rhaegar died by Robert's hand then Lyanna would likely never forgive Robert and seemingly didn't love him anyway, where would that leave Ned, Lyanna, Robert and Jon in the grand scheme of things? The two best friends who grew up together might end up at odds, because whilst Ned is famously dutiful he is still loyal enough to family that he protected Jon against King Robert, he would absolutely defend Lyanna if she fled to Winterfell
I feel Bobby B would take part in the trial by combat himself. Jaeherys 1 did it, and Robert loves the fight. I don't think he would win. Either from being drunk or too out of shape, especially if mountain or Jaime are his opponent. If this is the case, Cersei/Jaime are innocent and Joffery is declared king with Sansa as queen. Joffery may take revenge, if so only Baratheon/North war. Not 5 kings. No matter what though, all is screwed when Daenerys comes.
One other key thing is that it's not just Ned's word, he also has Stannis and (more importantly) Varys to back him up. Robert for all his faults did truly love Stannis, and since both Ned and Stannis are known to be extremely honorable and honest men, both of them saying the same thing would give the accusation much heavier weight. But most important of all is Varys, the one who first discovered it to begin with and doubtless the one with the most dirt on it. While people may not like Varys, they all recognize they have no choice but to listen to what he says, because he *knows* these things. The three all speaking in unison carries a damning amount of weight
Interesting video. Sadly, Robert was doomed. If not the boar, it would surely be something else. Cercei wanted him dead, and sooner or later, Cercei always gets what she wants.
If Robert had another war to fight he would have transformed into a great man again. He was a tactical savant and unstoppable warrior in his prime. He may not have ever been the great warrior he once was, but there is no doubt he would have won ever battle he took part in. I think Tywin would absolutely start shit with Robert. Robert would want Cerci dead and Tywin would never allow that, and he has the largest army in the 7 kingdoms.
Great ideas! One additional thing to think about, Tyrion has been taken at this point and berrick has gone after the mountain who won’t be setting the river lands aflame. Tyrion would be held still which would lead Tywin to make a decision. He said on the show to Tyrion after he is freed and meets his fathers army “you left us no choice” when asked “you went to war for me?” Tywin saw it as an attack on the Lannister name, as he will these accusations and his bannerman ser gregor being condemned with Tywin given 2 weeks to present himself at court to answer for the crimes of his bannermen So for things to go down your way Tywin has to ignore what’s going on with his daughter, Jamie and grandkids, risk the return of the multi million gold debt from the crown, ignore Tyrion being publicly kidnapped and tried unfairly, ignore the mountain situation and allow that to happen
I think he would have eventually caught on to what wifey and father in law were doing. The one scene where he was sober- and he made that epic speech, he sounded like a commander who knew his shit.
What if Lucerys lost his eye *instead* of Aemond? What if both Lucerys & Aemond died in episode 10? What if Aemma Arryn last child, Baelon was born a girl that married Aegon-II? What if Viserys had Aegon II married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death? What if Rhaenyra was like Jaehaerys The Conciliator? What if Rhaenyra Targaryen married Borros Baratheon? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenyra Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Rhaenys Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Viserys-I made Daemon Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death? What if Rhaenyra married Otto after Alicent married Viserys? What if Aegon-III lived longer and made his Daughter Daena hair after the death of his sons? What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
I think because she is queen her champion must be of the kings guard. Iirc there is a whole plot line about getting the weakest king's guard to represent Marjorie in dance if it came to trial by combat. Also if she chooses the mountain, the crown would just choose Jamie
“Jaime would of course be her champion” - No, no, no. A thousand times no. A: she wouldn’t risk losing him and B: Tywin would never, ever allow that. The Mountain would fight for her.
@@Chris522ty shes older then robb so of you were to do that hed be the best choice but it also be kind of an issue to have the lord of winterfell away from the north or the king consort away from court
Not one word about how things would turn out in Essos, with the Targaeryan children. More than likely, Viserys still dies after having his skull encased in gold by an enraged Khal Drogo. But Daenarys would now have three dragons, and the entire horde of the Dothraki, at her back. And following the attempt to poison her, by Robert Baratheon, Dany would be in NO MOOD to negotiate with King Robert! I feel like this alternate outcome deserves a video unto itself, because that certainly would be an interesting one! And then there's the nagging threat of the Wight Walkers... Winter would still be coming, in this timeline, after all...
Worth pointing out that in at least some tellings of the Arthur legend, Sir Lancelot defends accusations against Guinevere by combat; a nice parallel to maybe the Dragonknight and theoretically Jaime in this hypothetical.
I actually would expect Tywin to forbid Jamie from standing as Cersei's champion. I'm sure his position would allow him to, and I expect he'd rather reduce her chances of defeating the accusations than risk him in a duel against possibly the only person currently widely considered his superior in combat.
I don't expect Tywin would stay passive and accept the charges against his daughter. He was already leading a raid into the Riverlands to get back Tyrion and in defiance of Ned as hand of the king. By this point he is in too deep, but I don't think he's going quietly. And there are two individuals on the small council who could play a role in the trial and the fallout for the Lannisters. Pycelle is a stooge and while he is limited in what he can do for Tywin, he is in fact the man charged with keeping Robert alive and healthy should he fall ill. Combine that with Littlefinger, who hates Ned and sees strife within the realm as an opportunity, and there is a risk that Robert suddenly falls sick. And doesn't recover despite Pycelle's efforts to 'cure' him. It could prove a very interesting scenario for Westeros, depending on if the trial is concluded, if it was decided by combat, and who won. My bets are on Jaime killing Selmy. With the murder plot originally as a contingency concocted by Tywin and Littlefinger, but Baelish carrying it out regardless to advance his own schemes. Without Robert, Renly could become a wildcard. If Cersei and Robert's children are dead or illegitimate, there is a danger he could strike a deal with Tywin and attempt to bring the Reach and the Stormlands into the fold. Seeing Tywin as the kingmaker who will help him overcome Stannis. But against Ned and Stannis, their combined efforts might still not be enough. The Lannisters might have the money to afford a strong army and the Reach has the manpower, but most of them are not very good commanders. Tywin is really the only leader who's not daft or overconfident. Stannis is a better tactician, and if Ned abdicated responsibility for the army of the North to Robb, they would punch well above their weight. Leading to a very interesting and evenly matched war in Westeros.
I think a funny possibility could be robert wanting to fight the trial by combat against jaime personally, and ned cant convince him otherwise so he loses and the war of the 5 kings happens as usual
Then Tyrion will be sent to nightwatch and make a friendship with Jon entering the same day as Sam. Bonding with every Jon friends becoming his closest allies and close to Sam since both of the share likes in books. He maybe Head of rescue party to pick Jon from wildlings even making his adventure books in north.
you might want to include how the Crown's debt to the Lannisters, which with the death of Jamie and Cersei would likely be called in, would create a major conflict with the Lannisters and the Crown, instead of the North and the Crown.
The only issue I see is how in debt the crown was to the Lannisters. The king even makes a point to say this in the show. I see Tywin stepping in before anything that resembles a trial happening
so heres the thing i could see Robert refusing to allow two members of his kings guard to fight each other so it more likely to be selmey vs the mountain which is a lot more clear cut as it were with the mountain getting gutted by arguably the best knight in westeros.
One thing you forgot is that Robert told Ned that he wanted to leave to become a Sellsword outside of Westeros but knew that he couldn't cause that would leave Joffrey as the King and he knows that would be a bad idea. Now with Joffrey no longer his Heir apparent, he would indeed make someone else his Heir to the Iron Throne, which would more than likely be Stannis. On an additional note, I believe that after taking some time to rebuild himself, Robert would either go to the North and stay with Ned so he could always be close to Lyanna (Good Ending) or potentially try to find Danearys (as Viserys would be dead) and kill her outright due to him still hating Rhaegar. However I highly doubt he'd be successful as even if he built up a successful Sellsword Company I doubt they'd be able to get through all of the Dothraki Warriors she has. If this were to happen though then the question is would Stannis try to kill Danearys as a form of revenge? He may be a King in this timeline of events but he still has a duty to House Baratheon, to find out a Royal Blood of his House being murdered by a potential future usurper no less could be enough for him to also want her dead, or, since Ned will still be Hand and thus Stannis's Hand there could be an agreement for Dany to marry into one of the Main Houses of Westeros which could peace which is what Stannis would be more emboldened towards and what Ned would obviously want. Problem is that Stannis has no sons and definitely wouldn't have one old enough to be appropriately married to Dany at this time. If I had to make a choice I think that Stannis would go by the suggestion of his trusted advisor Ned who suggest Robb as a Husband to Dany, I think that Stannis would agree to this but in order to ensure that Dany didn't have a direct line of sight to the Throne would ask for Shareen to be married to another Stark Son which would likely be Rickon if not Bran. Overall things would be more peaceful, with Dany safe in Winterfell with Robb, Stannis being King, Ned living and continuing as Hand of the King and Robert finally at peace dying the way he wanted to in an attempt to avenge the woman that he loves. This also sets up a great defense against The Others as Dany would have her Dragons by this time as well, however they wouldn't be able to go across The Wall. The real question is how Jon fits into all this, Cat would kill Ned if he decided to name Jon as anything official in House Stark but Ned could ask Stannis to legitimize Jon to free him from services to the Wall or at least not make him forced to be there likely revealing the truth of Jon to Stannis in the process. Stannis isn't a child killer and if he has Melisandre as a part of his court still, Melisandre could likely convince Stannis that Jon would be important for future events. Depending on when this happens, Jon could either end up married to Ygritte which would tie the Wildings into the 7 Kingdoms or if the intent at this time is to build forces to go against The Others, perhaps Jon could be used as a political chip and finally bring in Dorne instead? It could symbolically be a way for Ned, in memory of Lyanna, to give Rhaegar's Son to Dorne as a sign of good faith. I doubt Dorne would hate Jon and with The Lannisters by this point well and truly dead alongside Robert with all of the other Lannister Children being outed as bastards then their hatred would be quelled enough to agree. Just spitballing ideas really
I like your theory. However, I think you would see greater resistance on the part of Tywin. I’d expect to see a war with the support that propped up the crown suddenly swept away followed by a series of cunning and brutal attacks by Tywin on the crown
Robert lives no war and no one finds out about the night King and everyone dies. Unless we believe the lord of light would have taken a more active role to compensate
You’re leaving out one big thing, Tywin would be lighting up the Riverlands over Tyrion be taken prisoner, Ned may call his banners to aid his In-Laws and King Robert would call the other Lord’s Paramount to support his best friend. And with everyone one in the realm fears/hates Tywin Lannister.
War has already started when Robert comes back. Tywin has already raised an army , so this time it would be toward king landing , Jamie would leave Riverrun and with us whole intact army join Tywin marching to the capital. The Stark would be too late to join and the southerners armies even later. Tywin and Jamie would attack King landing with only gold clocks protecting it , and much less prepared , so the Lanisters would have good chance to blitch the city
I don't think he would have lived because I'm pretty sure he missed because he was already succumbing to the poison cersie was giving him, which did prevent his wound from healing. He had a few more days maybe but Neds mercy might have changed in that case
I think Robert would up and abdicate the Throne to Stannis, in the book he says the only reason he stays is because of the stuff Joffrey says freaks him out. Tywin may go the route of trying to dissprove the incest which would be easier. Just cause the kids are blonde doesn't automatically mean Cersei slept with her brother but he would mostly do it to get what he's always wanted: Jamie out of the Kingsguard. The problem is if Cersei demands the trial then she will of course ask Jamie. But I can just see Tywin throwing Cersei under the bus if it means he can get Jamie.
I do wonder if Melisandre would have some magic way to determine whether or not Joffrey has kings blood. Given that she’s well versed in magic using kings blood, it doesn’t seem so far fetched to suggest that she would have some medieval dna test in her grimoire
Ya know, I could actually see in this timeline Robert Legitimizing one of his non-Lannister bastards and then marrying them to Sansa, or Rob. I think Robert would want to stick with the idea of joining houses Baratheon and Stark.
A few corrections - The war was called Robert's Rebellion but it was not his war. He didn't start it. John Arryn was the one who started the war after the Mad King called for Ned and Robert's heads. - Tywin started the War of the Five Kings when he attacked the Riverlands WHILE Robert was still alive so either way the Starks and the Lannisters are probably still fighting because Ned would have to honor his alliance with the Tullys - Robert also has a highborn bastard son in the books who he acknowledged and raised at Storm's End so succession is not an issue if he is legitimized
Id rather imagine the scene where Ned tells his best friend about his findings that Robert would look down for a moment, then look into Neds eyes and say: "i know. Im maybe the fat, drunken King who doesnt fit into his armor anymore but im not stupid". But its the same way how he know that Geofrey was lying with with the Wolf. Geofrey may not be his son but he is still his heir. And yeah sure he could execute cercei and deligitemize her children but then he would also be the king that got shoehorned by his wife for over a decade, with his own kingsguard, right under his nose. And then u have a fat, drunken king, who became the running gag in every tavern in Westeros, without an heir and a Tywin Lanister who wouldnt be that happy that u executed his daughter. For me Robert was bit like Theoden. A Tragic figure. A man who once started with good intentions and good will and then, dragged down by time and bad fortune, slowly stopped caring and lives only in the past. But just because he stopped caring doenst mean that he doesnt know whats going on.
Honestly I feel like he wouldn’t just wait for Danny to build her armies and let her dragons grow. Like Tywin, Joffery and cerci did. Robert loved fighting and hated the Targaryens. Pretty much as soon as he heard she had dragons. I believe he would have immediately set sail and took the fight to her. He definitely wouldn’t have waited. In fact he probably would have been excited to fight dragons. I mean technically he was part Targaryen himself. So he probably would have at least tried to claim one for himself.
More specifically Arya and John are the only ones that took after Starks, it's one of the reasons Cat hates John so much is he look more like Ned than most of her children
My only issue is that you think robert wouldnt be his own champion. The man has been itching for a fight for years. It also presents an even more interesting line of possibilities if he loses.
I don't think either Ned or Robert would be long to survive even if he survived the boar. Cersei had placed Lannister men and soldiers all around her, even within the Kingsguard. Assuming events play out the same and Ned still sends a choice number of his household guard to both assist the City Watch and to go hunt down the mountain, he just is in too much danger in the Red Keep. Ned's only chance would have been not having brought the children along from the get-go. Sansa running off to the queen was what set everything in motion to kill all the Starks
If Robert lived, the kingdom would have to fight white walkers and battle Danyerys, simultaneously. Most likely white walkers or Dany would win the throne, lannisters would poison her, and war would break out.
My problem with this theory is that I can't see a scenario where Robert lives. To many people wanted him dead, and his only real guardian was to inflexible to stop any of them. As Varys said, even if he'd survived that attempt, he would have been killed another way.
Frankly if anything were to go to trial or there was any hesitation on Robert’s part Cersei would almost certainly have Ned assassinated in retaliation, a scheme Littlefinger would probably support if he was privy to it
Hearing you call the bastard pretender "Joffery Waters" feels so satisfying to me
He'd Potentially be considered a Hill since both of his parents are from the Westerlands
😂😂@@washingtoncommandcenter5541
@@washingtoncommandcenter5541 it can vary, ie Edric Storm (raised in the stormlands, but fathered from a woman in the reach/born in the reach), Obara Sand lived the early part of her life in oldtown in the reach, Brynden Rivers was born of a riverlander mother, but lived in kings landing for a good chunk of his childhood. it certainly isn't a decreed law, and can vary it seems. i personally lean more towards Joffrey Waters, but yeah Joffrey Hill caught on with smallfolk and nobles im sure it would be his name.
As much as it would chafe Tywin's ass, with him alive, and Cersei & Jamie dead in this scenario. He's so pragmatic that he'd probably hang Cersei out to dry, play up his disgust with what they did, and condemn them. So he could appeal to Robert to legitimize Joffery as a Lannister just to avoid having Tyrion as his heir. All Dwarves are bastards and such. As disappointed in Joffery as Robert was, maybe he'd still have enough affection from raising him to do it. Then with Tywin molding him, he'd probably end up as Ramsey 2.0
@@washingtoncommandcenter5541 joffrey as lord of casterly rock would be interesting i think he would legitimize all 3 i could see them trying to arrange good marriages for the 3 so that way the lannister’s don’t lose influence
The one problem with yout theory, is that Jamie would also be tried for treason for sleeping with the King's wife.
He can be his own champion and defend them both
@@Jeppe_Plol that is not how it works .... So if the strongest warrior in the realm will do anything wrong no punishment for him because he can win a 1 vs 1 battle? Robert would punish jaime like what Joffrey did with ned
@@hiddendagger7291 When accused of a crime, you are allowed to demand trial by combat. It is a religious belief in Westeros where the faith of the seven is upheld that the gods will side with the innocent, and punish the guilty.
Obviously if Robert would allow Cersei this, he would allow Jaimie the same. But Tommen later outlaws trial by combat, and the mad king named his champion fire, and chained Brandon and Rickard Stark to one another. So even though technically it is possible to win every trial if you are just a good fighter, it is true not every king upholds the same rules for trials. I would however expect Robert to just let him fight.
@@Jeppe_P If you look this as some personal thing it is huge disrespect to robert as a man ....like his children are not his children and his wife was fu*king her brother and on top of all don't love his wife and children and I don't think he would let them walk away just like that if jaime defeats Robert's champion in this what if scenario .... And if jaime wins would robert let cerci live like a queen and her Bastards as princes? When deep down he knows they are not his children? So that's why I think trial by combat will be irrelevant here robert would just want to kill them because he doesn't love them and there won't be any dispute for throne in future if he kills those bastards
@@Jeppe_P Robert would have given Jamie the Lucemore the Lusty Treatment
I hate how the assassination plot was basically to get him slightly drunker than usual and hope a pig kills him...
I mean, it worked well.
He was an awful king and an incompetent man. Apparently, he was a great warrior but that went to crap when he became fat and lazy. His mind was incredibly dull. Who knows? Probably wasn't the first 'attempt'.
You only have to succeed once, and with an attempt like that, you can fail as many times as you can and nobody will ever know.
It’s highly implied in the books, that LF helped arrange for a faceless man to kill Robert as the make sure that the deaths look like accidents + LF knew how much money the FM charge for the assassination of a monarch.
@@martidodger7106 who the heck are LF and FM? why not write the full names dude?
@@BrianCuzzilla LittleFinger and the Faceless Men. Definitely not a good use of acronyms.
I'd imagine the "plot" was more just a running thing they did every time he went hunting just hoping it might help cause an accident, and then it happened to do so right then for... well, dramatization purposes :p
I doubt Robert would resist Ned's news about the twincest. He hates Cersei and Joffrey, and Ned's news would be the perfect excuse to get rid of her and the perfectly satisfying answer to the question he rhetorically asks Ned "How could I have made a son like that?" Discovering that Joffrey is not, in fact, his son, would be completely gratifying to Robert, it would be a validation of him as a man. The news of the twincest would give him a fresh lease on life, what he would see as a chance to do things over, and get it right, he would be able to see himself as the victim of treachery, not an asshole who fucked up his kingship, marriage and family.
As far as Cersei attempting to cast doubt on Ned's story, that's not going to fly. EVERY member of the Small Council, except Barristan, knows about the twincest. Pycelle admits to Tyrion that he allowed Jon Arryn to die to protect the secret. Littlefinger is not at all surprised by Ned's revelation. Stannis is the one clued Jon Arryn in. Varys obviously knew. Renly's ploy to set Robert up with Margaery can't work unless he has a trump card like the twincest to keep Cersei's kids off the throne.
When Robert is being told something that vindicates his own self-image and lets him get rid of a wife he hates, disown children who disappoint him and execute a knight he resents, by his closest friend, a man with a sterling reputation for honesty, he is going to be VERY open to the news, and the sycophantic and self-serving members of his Council will all be lining up to verify Ned's news with the evidence that made them believe. Varys needs to stay on the king's good side, and the odds are stacked against the Lannisters at the moment. Renly is going to see a golden opportunity to push Margaery as the new Queen. If Stannis makes it back to court before Cersei's execution, he is going to attest that Jon Arryn believed it as well and offer the clues they had followed. MAYBE Pycelle keeps his mouth shut to protect Tywin's daughter & grandchildren, but as Varys notes, he loves his office, and he isn't willing to deny Ned information, like the title and a copy of the book Jon had been studying or his last words, which were clearly a reference to the twincest. He's not a slick liar or persuasive advocate who is going to be able to defend her or argue away Ned's points. And Littlefinger will want to stay in good with Robert, and with Ned, the better to bring him down, so he'll support Ned if he sees that's where the wind is blowing.
I don't think Robert is going to let Cersei summon her champion to court, he's going to order the trial right then and there, with whomever is present and willing to volunteer on her behalf. That's if Robert even allows her a trial instead of killing her on the spot.
Also, if it takes Robert long enough to get back, or Ned hesitates a bit before telling him, news of what Tywin is doing will eventually reach court, and then the Lannisters are in the shitter. Tywin is already in trouble for violating Robert's demand of an end to the fighting over Tyrion's capture. Robert ruled that the fight between Jaime & Ned in the street was to be the last of the violence and Ned was to order Tyrion released. By sending raiders into the Riverlands, Tywin is rejecting Robert's judgment and orders or else stating that he does not believe Robert will have his son released. Either way, it's an insult and defiance of his royal authority. Now, Tywin might argue that he had nothing to do with it, and people might have no choice but to accept his claim for lack of proof but Ned sent men under Robert's banner and in Robert's name to arrest Gregor. To deny them, or interfere with their mission is a crime against the throne and to actually resist them in arms or attack them is treason and effectively a declaration of war against Robert. When word reaches court of Tywin's ambush of Beric & Thoros, Robert is going to flip his shit, and that might be enough for him to repudiate Cersei and disown the traitor's grandchildren even without the twincest.
Basically, the Lannisters were in huge trouble thanks to their arrogance and assumptions that they could get away with anything, and only Robert's death kept the consequences from coming to pass. Ned was NOT being stupid when he warned Cersei, because all the odds were in his favor. Cersei gambled the survival of her whole family on her risky plot killing Robert, and got extremely lucky that it worked out for her.
I would also say that it would be smart to keep Robert from killing Cersei. As much as he wants to she is more use alive as a hostage against Tywin. To keep the Lannisters in line Ned could offer the deal of Cersei and her kids being exiled to Essos and Jamie going to the Wall and joining the Nights Watch. Robert would still want them dead but they could also demand that Tywin cancel the debt the crown owes to the Lannisters. Remember the Kingdom is millions in debt to Tywin. Tywin would hate it all but if it keeps his kids and grandkids alive he would probably take the deal. If the rest of the small council backs the deal then they could convince Robert to accept it. Not only does this open up Robert to have to look for a new heir but Tywin would have no choice but to accept Tyrion as his heir. As heir to House Lannister Tyrion's prospects for marriage go way up and could lead to unions with Dorn, the Tyrell's, and even the Iron Islands. The field becomes wide open for Rob Stark as well since he doesn't go to war so doesn't get dragged into an arranged marriage or marry some random girl he meets while on campaign.
@@Wilahelm2 Not really. There is too much risk of Joffrey et al being used against Robert. As for Tywin, he's 3 times a traitor. There is nothing to be gained by making any deals with him. By raiding the Riverlands in defiance of Robert's decree that the fighting over Tyrion cease, and attacking the men Ned sent out under Robert's banner to deal with Gregor, Tywin has committed treason & rebellion, ans has grievously offended the king, and Houses Baratheon, Stark & Tully. Tywin is a dead man walking if Robert survives, and even if none of that were true, he would never accept the disinheritance of his grandchildren or the dissolution of the royal marriage that had been his life's ambition, and the disgrace for him that would come with it. Tywin is going down fighting a hopeless battle against the alliance that brought down the Targaryens.
@@Wilahelm2 I don't agree with a lot of what you said.
I don't think Tywin would sacrifice valuable leverage for pawns/family members that aren't worth anything in that deal. Remember, this is the guy who values the family name over all, and rules mainly true his legacy of fear. I doubt he will save the kids, they aren't worth anything, Ned however will plead for their lives. Ned will plead for Cersei's live, but she has lost her favor with Robert, is ousted as a cheater, not bearing the kings kid but her brothers, meaning that marriage prospects for her after this would be low, even if she lives and returns to Castley Rock. The only one with value for Tywin is his desired heir in Jaime. But if he is to die or send to the wall, he is worthless. He is likely willing to resolve the debt (maybe partly) in favor of Jaime losing his position in the nightswatch, possibly his knighthood and maybe the nobles form of community service or something. But that's all.
I also don't think Tywin would ever make Tyrion his heir, that goes against all he stands for. This is the man who when he was balding, shaved all his hair to keep up appearances. Among the other things he does to appear as a powerfull noble house. Again, the Lannistar name is all that matter to him, and to him, a dwarf etc. does not look good on the Lannister legacy.
The marriage alliances are interesting indeed. Margeary as potential queen. Sansa is now single again and will likely marry into the Tyrell family or some family in the North as the Northen lords originally wanted. Rob is indeed a bachelor again, and will likely marry a northen lady. Thousands of lives will be saved as a civil war is higly unlikely, as nobody would really support the Lannister household above the royal household at this time.
@@Wilahelm2disagree, Robert may spare the children, MAYBE, but Robert having the choice to broker another uneasy peace with the Lannisters, and marching on and sacking Casterly Rock? He’s sacking Castely Rock, just like he sacked Pyke, just like he sacked Gulltown, and just like he assaulted Dragonstone.
@@Lillie-y7sAgreed, Robert wouldn’t be making peace if there’s a fight he knew he could win. The Lannisters are far from untouchable and everyone Tywin ever bullied or victimized would happily help Robert destroy them.
If we’re legitimizing his bastards from the book, the only real answer is Edric Storm, his one bastard that he’s actually recognized in the court
His mother is highborn, Gendry's isn't, there isn't a comparison between them
very true. people forget that only recognized bastards get names like storm or snow etc. people like gendry are just gendry a normal bastard.
also Mya Stone! he nearly had her grow up in court
Yeh thats why i think it would be unlikely to happen. As then you're opening the door for a lot of pretenders, some might argue for gendry (for their own gain ofc) while others would go stannis and renly etc
Robert Baratheon seems to die at just the right time for his legacy. He will be remembered as a king who presided over a long period of peace and stability, but the consequences of his economic misrule, will manifest themselves under later kings.
It works for conservative presidents why not Bobby b 😂
Like Biden will be remembered? Except without all the good stuff and happy memories I am guessing
@@GR-bn3xj If Biden had been a bit smart, he would have bowed out as a one term president. The whoever had succeeded him, things would have got worse, and we would have had the Baratheon effect.
@@Yahsuke2019You mean leftist presidents.
The Jaime Barristan duel alone makes it worth it
I swear I was thinkin the same thing 😂
I think a pre-character growth Jamie would win by exploiting Barristan's honour. We already saw him more than happy to fight dirty in Season 1.
@@PetersonZF Fight dirty when ? Tbh, if you're talking of his fight with Ned Stark, he was mad when a soldier stabbed him from behind (good change from the book) Jaime wanted to beat Ned "fair and square" to prove to the world and himself that he beat the guy who killed the sword of the morning (or so I interpret it all)
And well, no matter how dirty Jaime fights, Barristan isn't a stranger to this. People must have tried that on him, and he's got the experience/knowledge to be wary of it. Could give jaime a slight edge, but not really decisive, I think
Imho, the decisive factor would be plain youth. Their skills levels are basically equivalent, so what remains is physicality. And if Jaime can't outpower him or outpace him (speed of movements, but also including reflexes/reaction speed), then he simply can outlast him. Old Men aren't known for their stamina...
@@Baamthe25th He surprises Jory by sticking a knife in his eye almost before their fight begins.
@PetersonZF I wouldn't say that was dirty, he was just better than Jory.
As a stop gap, Robert legitimizes Gendry and marries him to Sansa.
And he could also legitimize Mya Stone and marry her to the Martell boy
Or he would legitimize edric stone and marries him to sansa. Don't forget sansa is a superficial eleven year old. She would rather marry edric who is a bastard from a lady of house florent than gendry who's mother is a common folk. I think ned would likely agree to the match. I don't see gendry marrying sansa as they aren't really compatible. I think edric storm would be the one who is legitimized but Robert would keep gendry around. This could also form a bond between him and arya since they are much alike in reference in the books. 2 baratheon men with 2 Stark ladies. Robert would love that seeing how gendry is much like him and arya is much like lyanna.
@@unniebunny2551 I honestly forgot about Edric. It's been a while.
People will not obey Gendry, his mother is a commoner, he did not even receive an education, he does not know how to rule or even read. I think Tywin will crush Robert
@@unniebunny2551you mean edric storm.
Great video!
I feel like “What if Arya had Jaqen kill Tywin and Gregor” could be another really interesting scenario with huge butterfly effects on the realm
I think Cersei would actually choose the mountain, because Tywin would never let both his children die.
Also her picking Jamie as her champion would kind of add fire to the rumors I feel
@@CasperDBR kinda like what happened with naerys and aemon
Jaimie would also stand accused and need to have a trial so it makes sense he champions for both of them. But Tywin likely goes to war over this
@@Jeppe_P like tywin stand a chance against united armies of stormlands, north, river lands, stannis and most like dorne and river lands
@@hiddendagger7291 i dont see dorne joining. He has a chance with the reach if he promises Jaimie to Maergery. He could strike first as the other armies need to gather. Hire the golden company from Essos. I doubt Robert would let him prosper if Jaimie and Cersei die. And he cant really afford to lose them.
In the books, Robb and Bran both have Tully looks as well, with blue eyes and auburn hair. Out of Ned's five children, only Arya has Stark looks. That's actually spawned a bunch of (pretty wild) fan theories about Catelyn's children being bastards, but no one in the series actually believes that. So, yeah, Catelyn is proof that a woman can have not three but four kids who look nothing like their father. Baratheon seed seems to be a special case, with all of his biological children having black hair and blue eyes, and all of his ancestors having similar trends.
I believe this is because the original Baratheon likely has Valyrian blood, it’s very possible his genetics or atleast the looks that Baratheon’s tend to have is set in stone, in the same way Targaryen’s more often than not have silver and purple/bluish eyes
Well they do say that "The seed is strong" so yeah, Baratheon genetics are very dominant and it's almost a no brainer that a child without at least black hair/blue eyes isn't a Baratheon child
I think Jon Arryn intended for this scenario, and that King Robert would legitimise Gendry, "the seed is strong"
“Even though she is a queen she is not in a position of authority. She is a consort…all her power comes from him as he has dominion over King’s Landing. The Kingsguard answers to him.” Someone should have repeated this word for word to Alicent and Viserys.
Me too felt the same in hotd, the kingsguard acted like the king had no authority over them.
@navdeepkumar5085 the kings guard sometimes become kingslayers. But I agree if was clearly shown as like a different faction.
I honestly don't think Robert would bother with a trial. This was the worst kind of treason and a capital offense. As Ned describes it, what they did was a knife thrust at his very soul. Jaime and Cersei would die. Maybe the kids too, if he's not given time to calm down.
Definitely the kids
@@SamsonMcarthy-oo6cb Possibly.
@@CatotheE the younger ones would probably make it, for Joff it depends on how psychotic he gets.
@@CatotheE murdering his wife based off of questionable evidence at the time really isn't good look for a king who got throne through usurping a tyrant. He needs to at least look like he's fair.
@@fightingmedialounge519 No. He wouldn't. And nobody would care. Everyone that knew the truth knew that Robert finding out meant certain death. And the paternity was obvious once the secret was out. Brienne's no schemer, but she put it together.
"Joffery Waters" lmfao......LOVEEED THAT.
I would have figured the Lanisters would have chosen the Mountain as their Champion. Still, then I just thought the only reason the Mountain even won against Oberon was being of how cocky Oberon got and sidetracked he got by revenge. Baristan would probably be able to beat the Mountain with skill overcoming his strength.
I think the obvious go to is actually Sansa. It's horrific because she wanted a young Prince not an old fat King and Ned won't agree easily but one doesn't refuse the king. She's not far off in age from Margery and Stannis hates Mace and will be much more in favor of his brother having a good Stark union.
Sansa would be too young. Robert is older he needs an heir now, he also needs a new family to bankroll the crown. I think it would be Margery as soon as possible…
@@SCordova19 Maybe but I don't think the Cersai/are they bastards situation resolves terribly quickly. Sansa is eleven in the books and gets her moon blood while she's in Kings Landing not terribly long after everything kicks off. I think she's a viable option when Robert is considering a Queen.
@@Jinxness i definitely think she would be an option. And with Robert’s obsession with the starks I could see him consider it. But I think he’d see her as a child…and I think the Jamie Cersei trial by combat would resolve itself within two months. Robert would be making plans to marry while that goes on.
@@SCordova19 Ned would never stand for it. He treats his children like they are actually children, not marital coupons to cash in as soon as they are biologically eligible. He is not marrying Robert to his underage daughter, especially after knowing that he hit Cersei.
@@Gunleaver which is why I said I think he’d marry Margery
I don’t see Robert letting anyone fight the trial other than himself. In his prime, he could definitely beat Jaime but in the condition he’s in at the time, he stands no chance.
This isnt Robert in his prime though, Jamie claps Bobby in a trial by combat, specially for his sister's and family's life
@@michaeltei4173😂 they literally just said that
@@AJ-ny1ly Bro did and I did too, wanna rap battle?
@@michaeltei4173 th-cam.com/video/x-Xm95KHph8/w-d-xo.htmlsi=BmcfIP4Nu6z9EQkk
There is no scenario where I don’t see Tywin declaring war to save his children. If Cersei failed to assassinate Robert, she would take Ned’s advice and flee with Jamie back to Casterly rock. Robert was known for his temper and even the hint of betrayal from his wife and kingsgaurd would push him over the edge. She would not roll the dice that the 15 things that need to go perfectly for her to win at trial would go her way and take the safe bet and put distance between her and Robert. Tywin would have no choice but to calm his banners to save his house from extinction
But thats a war that Tywin would 100% lose so i doubt it. I could see him also openly judging cersei and say she cheated on robert but not with jaime (jaime is the only child he loved) or he judges them both and sucks up to robert so he doesnt kill joffrey and instead legitimizes him as a lannister so that tyrion doesnt become heir
I actually believe the scenario where Robert lives just does not exist. Cercei needs him dead, so she will probably find another way if getting him so drunk that he dies during hunting doesn't work. And if Cercei fails I think that Littlefinger would also attempt to have Robert killed to escalate the conflict he so carefully set up.
My immediate thought was that the only way it works is if he never becomes an alcoholic. Even then she would probably still find a way to
Good Job, you missed the point of the video, it's a what if and anything is possible, so yes this scenario does exist, if you don't like it, don't watch videos like this and focus on your homework kid.
You forgot that the mountain was already raiding the riverlands and Tywin had called his banners
Two things i think you're forgetting is that war was kind of already breaking out before Robert died. The mountain was raiding the riverlands and ned had sent men to arrest him, Tywin and Edmure tully were gathering forces as cat had already kidnapped tyrion. If cersie is arrested tywin outright rebels, i bet the iron islands would take the opportunity to do the same (maybe taking pardons to raid the westerlands) renly and the reach would still be a major factor in that balance of power. The second thing is that the eunuch was trying to start a war, he might help cersi or rather her children escape to Tywin.
I think its very possible you could find Tyrion escaping the vale with his mountain clans and finding Tywin in rebellion and Joffrey or tommon under his protection
If Robert lived, the Lannisters would all be dead. Simple Math.
I just commented this suggestion in your last video lol i should’ve just wait a few hours
I respectfully disagree with your timeline. Robert would be told and with his fury he would lay hands on Cersei and Ned might be able to save her, but Jamie would not stand by. Knowing the jig was up he'd murder Rob just as he did the mad king and attempt to flee with Cercei and their children to Castlaly Rock. Ned would be wounded and morning his friend, and he would send ravens to Stanis who would call his Bannerman and take control of Westeros. With Rob murdered the Baratheon brothers would be unified by their shared desire for vengeance and Stanis would take Gandri as his ward on request from Ned. The Wolf and Stag armies would march into the land of Lions. With this going on Little Finger would have to alter his plans and attempt to assassinate Ned while also attempting to continue his plans with the Veil. I could see him manipulating Robert into a Lordship and marrying Catlyn's sister taking control of the Veil. He'd probably poison her during a dinner and make sure Tyrion has an escape back home to curry favor with the Lannisters whilst also getting closer to Catlyn.
wouldnt jaime have already long left the city by the time robert was told?
@@kaievoke IDK honestly, if he did that would be a good catch, but I don't think he had bc the street fight between him and Ned was over Tyrion's capture and that went down Just before Robert got back from the hunt. He may not have had the time to get his men and supplies together yet. But you very well may be correct
Don’t you dare disrespect my mans Bobby B
Video suggestion:
- What if Cersei was a man? Alternatively, what if Jaime was a woman? (Or we can do both)
- What if Lyanna Stark survived?
- What if Rhaella Targaryen survived?
- What if the Targaryen dragons didnt die out after the dance?
- What if Joanna Lannister lived?
An alternate possibility for your next to last one would be if they somehow found out about the eggs in Essos.
One thing you missed is that though Robert is king, due to his disinterest in actually ruling, the Lannisters, Varys and Little Finger have the power. Majority of the kingsguard are Lannister lickspittles, LF has the gold cloaks, and I am certain Varys has many other knights in his faction.
Robert knows that his power comes from Tywin considering how much debt the crown is in.
Renly knows that the Baratheons do not have true power in KLs which is why he GTFOs when Ned refuses to capture J, M, and T before Cersei finds out that Robert has died.
There is no way that LF will allow Robert to live because even if they were to get rid of the Lannisters, Stannis would be Robert’s heir. Stannis as heir and potentially hand after Ned, would clean house (ie kill Varys and Littlefinger) and if he became king after Robert, Stannis would def ban brothels, etc.. This is the reason why he urges Ned to make peace with the Lannisters- to wed Sansa and J, and Arya and Tommen, but Ned cannot look the other way to allow bastards to take the throne Robert won.
So even if Robert evaded death by boar, there is def another plot in the works to ensure Robert is dead and Ned not in power when it happens. LF, after all, knew “offhand” what the house of black and white would charge foe the assassination of a king…
So yeah the only way Robert could live and outwit the Lanisters is that Ned would need to have gotten word to Stannis and Hoster Tulley without anyone knowing, so that Stannis and Hoster could gather the Storm and Riverland hosts to march on KL before Tywin can march his armies from the West, and take the city from Lannister control and from LF’s city watch.
Once they’ve secured the city, Robert and Ned could act
Nicely put
Barristan playing on Jamies ego would be one hell of a fight
I've watched most of your videos, hope your channel grows bc you do great work.
a more interesting one for me is if both Robert *AND* Lyanna survived, because if Rhaegar died by Robert's hand then Lyanna would likely never forgive Robert and seemingly didn't love him anyway, where would that leave Ned, Lyanna, Robert and Jon in the grand scheme of things? The two best friends who grew up together might end up at odds, because whilst Ned is famously dutiful he is still loyal enough to family that he protected Jon against King Robert, he would absolutely defend Lyanna if she fled to Winterfell
I feel Bobby B would take part in the trial by combat himself. Jaeherys 1 did it, and Robert loves the fight.
I don't think he would win. Either from being drunk or too out of shape, especially if mountain or Jaime are his opponent.
If this is the case, Cersei/Jaime are innocent and Joffery is declared king with Sansa as queen.
Joffery may take revenge, if so only Baratheon/North war. Not 5 kings.
No matter what though, all is screwed when Daenerys comes.
One other key thing is that it's not just Ned's word, he also has Stannis and (more importantly) Varys to back him up. Robert for all his faults did truly love Stannis, and since both Ned and Stannis are known to be extremely honorable and honest men, both of them saying the same thing would give the accusation much heavier weight. But most important of all is Varys, the one who first discovered it to begin with and doubtless the one with the most dirt on it. While people may not like Varys, they all recognize they have no choice but to listen to what he says, because he *knows* these things. The three all speaking in unison carries a damning amount of weight
Would love to see a further expansion of this. It was setup very well for a full story
Interesting video. Sadly, Robert was doomed. If not the boar, it would surely be something else. Cercei wanted him dead, and sooner or later, Cercei always gets what she wants.
If Robert had another war to fight he would have transformed into a great man again. He was a tactical savant and unstoppable warrior in his prime. He may not have ever been the great warrior he once was, but there is no doubt he would have won ever battle he took part in.
I think Tywin would absolutely start shit with Robert. Robert would want Cerci dead and Tywin would never allow that, and he has the largest army in the 7 kingdoms.
Great ideas! One additional thing to think about, Tyrion has been taken at this point and berrick has gone after the mountain who won’t be setting the river lands aflame.
Tyrion would be held still which would lead Tywin to make a decision. He said on the show to Tyrion after he is freed and meets his fathers army “you left us no choice” when asked “you went to war for me?”
Tywin saw it as an attack on the Lannister name, as he will these accusations and his bannerman ser gregor being condemned with Tywin given 2 weeks to present himself at court to answer for the crimes of his bannermen
So for things to go down your way Tywin has to ignore what’s going on with his daughter, Jamie and grandkids, risk the return of the multi million gold debt from the crown, ignore Tyrion being publicly kidnapped and tried unfairly, ignore the mountain situation and allow that to happen
I think he would have eventually caught on to what wifey and father in law were doing. The one scene where he was sober- and he made that epic speech, he sounded like a commander who knew his shit.
Much enjoyed. Hope you continue the content.
What if Lucerys lost his eye *instead* of Aemond?
What if both Lucerys & Aemond died in episode 10?
What if Aemma Arryn last child, Baelon was born a girl that married Aegon-II?
What if Viserys had Aegon II married Rhaenyra *After* Laenor’s death?
What if Rhaenyra was like Jaehaerys The Conciliator?
What if Rhaenyra Targaryen married Borros Baratheon?
What if Viserys-I made Rhaenyra Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death?
What if Viserys-I made Rhaenys Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death?
What if Viserys-I made Daemon Hand Of The King after Otto’s dismissed/Lyonel’s death?
What if Rhaenyra married Otto after Alicent married Viserys?
What if Aegon-III lived longer and made his Daughter Daena hair after the death of his sons?
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?
What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
It would be more likely that Robert would make Edric Storm his heir than Gendry. His mother was a Florent and he has had a noble education.
Cersei’s champion would be The Mountain
I think because she is queen her champion must be of the kings guard. Iirc there is a whole plot line about getting the weakest king's guard to represent Marjorie in dance if it came to trial by combat. Also if she chooses the mountain, the crown would just choose Jamie
Why would the mountain, back the queen when he can back the king.
Ps that bore was wragged into by someone,
My dawg, congrats on hitting the algo lottery 😎
“Jaime would of course be her champion” - No, no, no. A thousand times no. A: she wouldn’t risk losing him and B: Tywin would never, ever allow that. The Mountain would fight for her.
Sir Barristan's old age is the only factor for Jamies favor, but it is a very important one
i think he would def legitamize maya stone she was the only kid he seemed to ever actually love
maybe if she becomes a baratheon marry her to rob or rickon depending on her age(not including bran since he probably can’t have kids)
@@Chris522ty shes older then robb so of you were to do that hed be the best choice but it also be kind of an issue to have the lord of winterfell away from the north or the king consort away from court
@@Ebony_Darkness in this timeline ned wouldn’t be dead so he’d be able to prepare bran or rickon to be lord of winterfell
@@Chris522ty robb would still be the next lord paramount of the north
I was excited for this.... but another recap instead of forward momentum killed it for me.
Lol
What if he had a son with downsyndrome and they called him Robert "Downey" Jr.?
He would probably be left in the woods 😭
He would probably be left the woods
Not one word about how things would turn out in Essos, with the Targaeryan children. More than likely, Viserys still dies after having his skull encased in gold by an enraged Khal Drogo. But Daenarys would now have three dragons, and the entire horde of the Dothraki, at her back. And following the attempt to poison her, by Robert Baratheon, Dany would be in NO MOOD to negotiate with King Robert! I feel like this alternate outcome deserves a video unto itself, because that certainly would be an interesting one!
And then there's the nagging threat of the Wight Walkers... Winter would still be coming, in this timeline, after all...
Worth pointing out that in at least some tellings of the Arthur legend, Sir Lancelot defends accusations against Guinevere by combat; a nice parallel to maybe the Dragonknight and theoretically Jaime in this hypothetical.
I actually would expect Tywin to forbid Jamie from standing as Cersei's champion. I'm sure his position would allow him to, and I expect he'd rather reduce her chances of defeating the accusations than risk him in a duel against possibly the only person currently widely considered his superior in combat.
I don't expect Tywin would stay passive and accept the charges against his daughter. He was already leading a raid into the Riverlands to get back Tyrion and in defiance of Ned as hand of the king. By this point he is in too deep, but I don't think he's going quietly. And there are two individuals on the small council who could play a role in the trial and the fallout for the Lannisters. Pycelle is a stooge and while he is limited in what he can do for Tywin, he is in fact the man charged with keeping Robert alive and healthy should he fall ill. Combine that with Littlefinger, who hates Ned and sees strife within the realm as an opportunity, and there is a risk that Robert suddenly falls sick. And doesn't recover despite Pycelle's efforts to 'cure' him.
It could prove a very interesting scenario for Westeros, depending on if the trial is concluded, if it was decided by combat, and who won. My bets are on Jaime killing Selmy. With the murder plot originally as a contingency concocted by Tywin and Littlefinger, but Baelish carrying it out regardless to advance his own schemes. Without Robert, Renly could become a wildcard. If Cersei and Robert's children are dead or illegitimate, there is a danger he could strike a deal with Tywin and attempt to bring the Reach and the Stormlands into the fold. Seeing Tywin as the kingmaker who will help him overcome Stannis. But against Ned and Stannis, their combined efforts might still not be enough. The Lannisters might have the money to afford a strong army and the Reach has the manpower, but most of them are not very good commanders. Tywin is really the only leader who's not daft or overconfident. Stannis is a better tactician, and if Ned abdicated responsibility for the army of the North to Robb, they would punch well above their weight. Leading to a very interesting and evenly matched war in Westeros.
I think a funny possibility could be robert wanting to fight the trial by combat against jaime personally, and ned cant convince him otherwise so he loses and the war of the 5 kings happens as usual
Then Tyrion will be sent to nightwatch and make a friendship with Jon entering the same day as Sam. Bonding with every Jon friends becoming his closest allies and close to Sam since both of the share likes in books. He maybe Head of rescue party to pick Jon from wildlings even making his adventure books in north.
What if barristan and the kingsguard supported ned in the throne room when he confronted joffrey and cersei?
Black cells for all of them.
What if Brandon Stark kills Little Finger during their duel?
you might want to include how the Crown's debt to the Lannisters, which with the death of Jamie and Cersei would likely be called in, would create a major conflict with the Lannisters and the Crown, instead of the North and the Crown.
They would've run out of wine in Westeros for sure, Seven Hells!
The only issue I see is how in debt the crown was to the Lannisters. The king even makes a point to say this in the show. I see Tywin stepping in before anything that resembles a trial happening
Cersei would most likely ask for a trial by combat saying the gods will declare her innocent and naming Jamie as her champion.
I think you are missing a better point which would be Robert picking Jamie's so she needs to confess or choose a champion who can beat her brother.
so heres the thing i could see Robert refusing to allow two members of his kings guard to fight each other so it more likely to be selmey vs the mountain which is a lot more clear cut as it were with the mountain getting gutted by arguably the best knight in westeros.
I'm pretty sure Edric Storm would just be made the new heir
One thing you forgot is that Robert told Ned that he wanted to leave to become a Sellsword outside of Westeros but knew that he couldn't cause that would leave Joffrey as the King and he knows that would be a bad idea. Now with Joffrey no longer his Heir apparent, he would indeed make someone else his Heir to the Iron Throne, which would more than likely be Stannis.
On an additional note, I believe that after taking some time to rebuild himself, Robert would either go to the North and stay with Ned so he could always be close to Lyanna (Good Ending) or potentially try to find Danearys (as Viserys would be dead) and kill her outright due to him still hating Rhaegar. However I highly doubt he'd be successful as even if he built up a successful Sellsword Company I doubt they'd be able to get through all of the Dothraki Warriors she has.
If this were to happen though then the question is would Stannis try to kill Danearys as a form of revenge? He may be a King in this timeline of events but he still has a duty to House Baratheon, to find out a Royal Blood of his House being murdered by a potential future usurper no less could be enough for him to also want her dead, or, since Ned will still be Hand and thus Stannis's Hand there could be an agreement for Dany to marry into one of the Main Houses of Westeros which could peace which is what Stannis would be more emboldened towards and what Ned would obviously want. Problem is that Stannis has no sons and definitely wouldn't have one old enough to be appropriately married to Dany at this time. If I had to make a choice I think that Stannis would go by the suggestion of his trusted advisor Ned who suggest Robb as a Husband to Dany, I think that Stannis would agree to this but in order to ensure that Dany didn't have a direct line of sight to the Throne would ask for Shareen to be married to another Stark Son which would likely be Rickon if not Bran.
Overall things would be more peaceful, with Dany safe in Winterfell with Robb, Stannis being King, Ned living and continuing as Hand of the King and Robert finally at peace dying the way he wanted to in an attempt to avenge the woman that he loves. This also sets up a great defense against The Others as Dany would have her Dragons by this time as well, however they wouldn't be able to go across The Wall. The real question is how Jon fits into all this, Cat would kill Ned if he decided to name Jon as anything official in House Stark but Ned could ask Stannis to legitimize Jon to free him from services to the Wall or at least not make him forced to be there likely revealing the truth of Jon to Stannis in the process. Stannis isn't a child killer and if he has Melisandre as a part of his court still, Melisandre could likely convince Stannis that Jon would be important for future events.
Depending on when this happens, Jon could either end up married to Ygritte which would tie the Wildings into the 7 Kingdoms or if the intent at this time is to build forces to go against The Others, perhaps Jon could be used as a political chip and finally bring in Dorne instead? It could symbolically be a way for Ned, in memory of Lyanna, to give Rhaegar's Son to Dorne as a sign of good faith. I doubt Dorne would hate Jon and with The Lannisters by this point well and truly dead alongside Robert with all of the other Lannister Children being outed as bastards then their hatred would be quelled enough to agree. Just spitballing ideas really
Trial of Seven 😳 the mountain, Jaime , Amory Lorch, and a couple Lannister scrubs vs The other 6 kings guard + the hound
Robert might have ended up legitimising edric storm since the boy is in fact noble on both sides.
I like your theory. However, I think you would see greater resistance on the part of Tywin. I’d expect to see a war with the support that propped up the crown suddenly swept away followed by a series of cunning and brutal attacks by Tywin on the crown
Please do more content with house of the dragons, nice video
Robert lives no war and no one finds out about the night King and everyone dies. Unless we believe the lord of light would have taken a more active role to compensate
You’re leaving out one big thing, Tywin would be lighting up the Riverlands over Tyrion be taken prisoner, Ned may call his banners to aid his In-Laws and King Robert would call the other Lord’s Paramount to support his best friend. And with everyone one in the realm fears/hates Tywin Lannister.
War has already started when Robert comes back. Tywin has already raised an army , so this time it would be toward king landing , Jamie would leave Riverrun and with us whole intact army join Tywin marching to the capital. The Stark would be too late to join and the southerners armies even later. Tywin and Jamie would attack King landing with only gold clocks protecting it , and much less prepared , so the Lanisters would have good chance to blitch the city
Minor correction: all of neds kids in the books except arya and obviously "jon" have the tully looks, not just robb and rickon.
My man Robert would love the war of the five kings, any excuse to return to be a warrior again would be fine
Robert probably had PTSD and that’s why he drank and slept around
I don't think he would have lived because I'm pretty sure he missed because he was already succumbing to the poison cersie was giving him, which did prevent his wound from healing. He had a few more days maybe but Neds mercy might have changed in that case
I think Robert would up and abdicate the Throne to Stannis, in the book he says the only reason he stays is because of the stuff Joffrey says freaks him out.
Tywin may go the route of trying to dissprove the incest which would be easier. Just cause the kids are blonde doesn't automatically mean Cersei slept with her brother but he would mostly do it to get what he's always wanted: Jamie out of the Kingsguard. The problem is if Cersei demands the trial then she will of course ask Jamie. But I can just see Tywin throwing Cersei under the bus if it means he can get Jamie.
One issue is the champions chosen. Robert Baratheon would not choose a champion to fight Jamie, he would fight him himself.
You skipped Daenarys.. She was already amassing her army to come for the throne.
I do wonder if Melisandre would have some magic way to determine whether or not Joffrey has kings blood. Given that she’s well versed in magic using kings blood, it doesn’t seem so far fetched to suggest that she would have some medieval dna test in her grimoire
Ya know, I could actually see in this timeline Robert Legitimizing one of his non-Lannister bastards and then marrying them to Sansa, or Rob. I think Robert would want to stick with the idea of joining houses Baratheon and Stark.
Stannis being the heir due to the Lannister bastards brings joy to my ears
I'd like to think Robert would call the Greatjon Umber to fight Jaime 😂
A few corrections
- The war was called Robert's Rebellion but it was not his war. He didn't start it. John Arryn was the one who started the war after the Mad King called for Ned and Robert's heads.
- Tywin started the War of the Five Kings when he attacked the Riverlands WHILE Robert was still alive so either way the Starks and the Lannisters are probably still fighting because Ned would have to honor his alliance with the Tullys
- Robert also has a highborn bastard son in the books who he acknowledged and raised at Storm's End so succession is not an issue if he is legitimized
Id rather imagine the scene where Ned tells his best friend about his findings that Robert would look down for a moment, then look into Neds eyes and say: "i know. Im maybe the fat, drunken King who doesnt fit into his armor anymore but im not stupid".
But its the same way how he know that Geofrey was lying with with the Wolf. Geofrey may not be his son but he is still his heir. And yeah sure he could execute cercei and deligitemize her children but then he would also be the king that got shoehorned by his wife for over a decade, with his own kingsguard, right under his nose. And then u have a fat, drunken king, who became the running gag in every tavern in Westeros, without an heir and a Tywin Lanister who wouldnt be that happy that u executed his daughter.
For me Robert was bit like Theoden. A Tragic figure. A man who once started with good intentions and good will and then, dragged down by time and bad fortune, slowly stopped caring and lives only in the past. But just because he stopped caring doenst mean that he doesnt know whats going on.
Tywin did a coup against his own father and house. He would absolutely go to war if he thought they were going to try and oust cersei.
There’s no way Tywin passively stands by and lets his two favorite children be murdered
the fact that in the beginning you said spearhead and not warhead of the rebellion….. bad start
Thought a duel between Jaime and the mountain would be more interesting just to taunt the Lannisters
Honestly I feel like he wouldn’t just wait for Danny to build her armies and let her dragons grow. Like Tywin, Joffery and cerci did. Robert loved fighting and hated the Targaryens. Pretty much as soon as he heard she had dragons. I believe he would have immediately set sail and took the fight to her. He definitely wouldn’t have waited. In fact he probably would have been excited to fight dragons. I mean technically he was part Targaryen himself. So he probably would have at least tried to claim one for himself.
If this happens, Ned being alive woukd greatly help Jon and the Nights Watch with their battle against the Wildlings
More specifically Arya and John are the only ones that took after Starks, it's one of the reasons Cat hates John so much is he look more like Ned than most of her children
My only issue is that you think robert wouldnt be his own champion. The man has been itching for a fight for years. It also presents an even more interesting line of possibilities if he loses.
honestly I think the Lannisters would call on the mountain to not risk Jamie
Ned pushing for Robert to legitimise Gendry, would be the most likely outcome.
They will get him a new wife like margery tyrell
Stuff was already fucked up by the time Robert went out hunting, Tywin was raising forces, he was raiding the riverlands, this makes him a traitor
I don't think either Ned or Robert would be long to survive even if he survived the boar. Cersei had placed Lannister men and soldiers all around her, even within the Kingsguard. Assuming events play out the same and Ned still sends a choice number of his household guard to both assist the City Watch and to go hunt down the mountain, he just is in too much danger in the Red Keep.
Ned's only chance would have been not having brought the children along from the get-go. Sansa running off to the queen was what set everything in motion to kill all the Starks
8:34 rob resembles caitlyn more then ned in the show as well.
If Robert lived, the kingdom would have to fight white walkers and battle Danyerys, simultaneously. Most likely white walkers or Dany would win the throne, lannisters would poison her, and war would break out.
My problem with this theory is that I can't see a scenario where Robert lives. To many people wanted him dead, and his only real guardian was to inflexible to stop any of them. As Varys said, even if he'd survived that attempt, he would have been killed another way.
Frankly if anything were to go to trial or there was any hesitation on Robert’s part Cersei would almost certainly have Ned assassinated in retaliation, a scheme Littlefinger would probably support if he was privy to it