I think from in world perspective Ned would be viewed like a Cincinnatus like figure. A man who assumed absolute power to save the country from a mad man and rule in the name of his nephew until he willingly surrendered power to said nephew when he came of age. He would be viewed very positively by most people, they would see him as the gold standard for a reagent.
I think the right move for King Ned is to pardon Jaimie, begrudgingly, and release him from his vows. Cersei doesnt get to be queen but Tywin gets his heir back. Itd keep the Lannisters in line and with Jaimie at the Rock, it doesnt really have to be in Ned's face. Thats the right move that Arryn would recommend
Pardon jaime? Absolutely not. Jaime is going to the wall and Ned is requesting for Tywin's head after Elia's brutal death at the hands of the mountain.
@nathanlandolt5505 That's the same thing I just posted, only you put it a lot more concisely! 😄 Also, we know Ned has the ability to weigh the abstract concept of honor against real world harm when necessary. That's why he raised Jon as his bastard in the canon timeline.
I think you should continue this story with a part 2...and possibly a part 3. This scenario turned out to be WAY more interesting than I initially thought!
King Eddard be like: If there was a problem, yo I'll solve it. Kneel by this stump while my great sword resolves it. ICE ICE BABY TOO COOOLD. YO. Winter is coming.
I like the idea of Robb staying in winterfell to eventually become lord of winterfell while being mentored by Benjen. And then when when Robb comes of age or Ned returns, Benjen starts his own family like the Karstarks did
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa? What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower? What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion?
Imagine the bards writing sad love ballad for them about Lyanna and Robert dying together at the Tower of Joy, and Ned bans it from being played in Winterfell. Everyone thinks it's because he can't stand the memory of losing his sister and best friend, but Ned hates keeping up the lie that Lyanna in any way loved Robert.
I think it’s wrong to assume that people just accept Rhaegar’s second marriage as legitimate or even believe it is true. Divorce in that time period usually happened on the grounds of infidelity, impotence/bareness, lack of a male heir, lack of consummation, or consanguinity. Divorces between royalty were also requested, reviewed and granted by the Pope. Elia and Rhaegar’s marriage doesn’t fit any of these circumstances and the annulment wasn’t properly reviewed and officially granted by the High Septon. Not to mention that Lyanna was betrothed to someone else. There’s more than enough grounds for Aemon’s legitimacy or even parentage to be questioned. I can see Targaryen loyalists, opportunists, and disgruntled people rallying around Viserys/Daenaerys. If Viserys is anything like he is in canon, I can see him raising a rebellion to take the throne. Queen Rhaella may not raise him that way, especially if she believes Aemon to be Rhaegar’s son but I think Viserys would go for it as an adult regardless of what she thinks.
It was the High Septon that married Lyanna and Rhaegar together, as the first passage of this union that Samwell Tarly finds was in the High Septon’s personal book. Also in the tv show, the flashback Bran has shows them marrying under the faith of the seven. You can assume from this that Rhaegar and Elia’s marriage was annulled. Otherwise it would have been illegal or even treason for the High Septon to do this - especially since the faith of the seven is very particular in their ceremonies. Also, the High Septon would still be alive when all this is being brought into question and he can personally account to everything that happened between Elia, Rhaegar and Lyanna. I think this would bring most people over to Ned’s side in making Jon the future king, as he already has power over the north, the Riverlands and the vale. Maybe the stormlands too since Robert likely wouldn’t go against Ned in an actual war but he might also not help him either. People who believe in the faith of the seven would trust the High Septon, this brings in Lords from the Reach, like the Hightowers and such. Although, I do think the Tyrell’s wouldn’t show immediate support to either side because right now they have very low respect in Westeros, due to Mace Tyrell doing essentially nothing during the war, and they have no power to display. I also think Ned wouldn’t immediately ask for the Tyrell’s support either if a war did happen, because the Tyrell’s will ask for a betrothal between Margaery and Jon, and that would anger the Stormlands due to the Tyrell’s starving them in the war. For everyone else I do believe it is dependant on the political situation if they are for or against Ned. For example, the Crownlands would decide with whatever Rhaella chooses, as they did protect her against Robert in the OG timeline so it’s most likely the same here. Jon is rhaellas grandson and her last grandchild alive, would she want to go to war agaisn’t him that might have to end in Jon’s death? I feel like this can go either way on how distraught/angry she is after finding out about her family dying. I also feel like her decision would decide Dornes and the Westerlsnds allegiance too. If she does go to war, Dorne is an easy ally as it was also their family that died in the rebellion and they could offer marriage between Viserys and Arianne to fulfill what was meant to be Dornisn blood on the throne. For the westerlands, as stated in the video, Tywin doesn’t want to go to war to be king himself but only if he could control the king. Also, Rhaella is going to die in her pregnancy with Daenerys, possibly giving Tywin even more control over Viserys. If this route happens, then it could also sway the Tyrell’s and even the Stormlands. However, without Rhaella choosing war, I don’t think Dorne or the Westerlsnds would fight against Ned, as Tywin doesn’t want to be king himself and Dorne alone would not be strong enough. This was so much fun to think about, sorry for overloading my response, I only wanted to mention the high Septon but then got carried away. I do believe what you said about Jon’s legitimacy causing issues and writing this out, I can easily see how Westeros could turn against Ned. Although, I do believe it would more be about vengeance and using Jon’s legitimacy issue as a scapegoat.
Well we know that even in the cannon, Ned's children are raised according to both faiths. Maybe in this timeline, he would make a compromise with the religious establishment where his heir would be raised solely according to the faith of the seven
I agree with everything, just want to add some stuff. 1) Tywin will organize an escape for Jaime on the way to the wall 2) Tywin will see Jon as a threat and try to take him out. Possibly Catelyn and Robb too to make a Lannister queen. 3) Jon will likely grow close to Sansa romantically since he seems to fancy her in the books. 4) Ned will send Robb to foster with benjin as soon as he’s old enough 5) Ned will probably try to make a match with Margery tyrell or a Martell for Jon to strengthen the realm 6) Ned would most likely accept the position as hand as Robb would rule as warden in the north when jon becomes king. And finally 7) Ned would ask ashara Dayne to come to kings landing. Not as his lover or wife, but as a foster mother for jon. Ned would know jon (and viserys and Daenerys) needs a mother, know Catelyn wasn’t capable of it, and trusted ashara explicitly.
if i recall the only reason catelyn wasnt cabable of acting as a mother to jon was simply because she thought he was neds bastard and a reminder that ned loved someone else enough to cheat on her so in this scenario i dont think she would have to much of an issue helping raise him as he is neds nephew
I can see this scenario, but not with Robert handing Ned the crown. I think the moment of change needs to be the Battle of the Trident. The rebellion wins the battle and Rhaegar still dies, but so does Robert. This Leads Ned to be effectively the leader of the rebellion. Everything else goes as it did, with the Lannisters sacking King's Landing, Dany and her brother escaping, the Mad King being slain by Jaime and so on. The Rebellion has won and the Targaryens are ousted. The high lords, realising that there'd be utter chaos if there was no king, pressure Ned into accepting. He might not have any blood of the dragon in him, but he is now, with Robert's fall, the leader of the winning side, and so won by right of conquest. Ned won't want the throne, naturally, but is convinced to do so when he comes to understand that there'd be further infighting if he's not there keeping things together. And thus, House Stark becomes the ruling family of Westeros ^_^
John Arryn would definitely advise to keep Tywin on his side and not send Jaimie to the Nights Watch. Have him stripped if his white cloak and have him dissavowed as a Knight. It would keep the Lannisters appeased
Very good! Though I think Jon Arryn would advise merely kicking Jaime off the Kingsguard over sentencing him to the Night's Watch. This would appease Tywin Lannister, who still has lots of gold which could be very helpful as the Realm reconstructs. Also, if given a choice over execution or taking the Black, Jaime's too likely to demand a trial by combat, which depending on whether Barristan Selmy is recovered enough to fight him at the time or not, he's going to lose and die (alienating Tywin) or win and thus be completely absolved. "At which point he would be able to demand to remain on the Kingsguard, since the gods declared him innocent. This would be a tricky legal situation, so it might be wiser, your Grace, to simply restore Jaime as Tywin's heir. He was fifteen when he was appointed to the Kingsguard, so he was a legal minor, and his oath was arguably under duress, which could be used as face-saving excuses. ...Look, boy, honor is important, but when you undertake to rule a kingdom, sometimes you have to be a little flexible and consider the bigger picture. The last thing the Realm needs right now is a second Hour of the Wolf, understand?" Or at least that's what I imagine Jon Arryn saying under these circumstances. I mean, he apparently was okay with Robert deciding to fully pardon Jaime in canon, and if he had any serious reservations about that I imagine the newly-crowned Robert would have heeded his foster father.
The idea of dragons never going extinct would be really interesting, not only would it increase the Targaryen power, probably stop Roberts rebellion, or maybe he himself could find a way to get a dragon (like how at first only USA had a-bombs, know the whole world does), and mostly likely it would of been much easier to stop the long night
They’d probably still go extinct during the blackfyre rebellions. But lets say they didn’t There would easily be hundreds of dragons by now, i think a bunch of them would also be left riderless. Aerys would have one (which would literally be the worst thing ever) Rhaegar would have one Visy Rhaenys Dany Aegon And that isnt even taking into consideration the fact that other houses might have dragons as well due to marriage. House valeryon would still be a super power The world would look completely different
Ned being crowned would be an irreversible action. Once the lords swear their oaths to him and the High Septon crowns him, everything is pretty much set in stone. Robb would be the heir no matter what. And Ned attempting anything else would be a disaster akin to what Viserys the first did. Robert might vacate the throne for Ned, but not for Rhaegar's son (bastard or otherwise).
I could see many supporters of Robert’s Rebellion rejecting Jon/Aemon. They don’t want a Targaryen restoration, many would consider Jon/Aemon a bastard or not even believed in his parentage. Ned trying to reverse and make Jon the King could certainly cause a rebellion, maybe Robert would lead it.
@@9xprincess Its even worse. Jon's parentage is a secondary issue. These men fought two years to remove the Targaryens. If they wanted a Targaryen, Viserys is right there across the pond. This will definitely cause a lot of trouble. And Ned knows that. But what can we do? Jon is fan favourite. So lets insert him everywhere.
@@justsome21tf you mean? They ousted Aerys most lords just were in for power. The North, Riverland and crownsland will be pro Jon. if jon is betrothed to Margery or Arianne one more kingdom. Lannisters and Baratheons are only anti Targaryen even lords of vale might be conflicted.
@@bharatvarshaball4000 He can't step down. That's even more of a joke than making Jon his heir. Once he's crowned by the High Seton, once the lords have sworn oaths of fealty to him (to a Stark, not a Targaryen), its done. The ink is dry. He's king, not a regent. And the lords of the entire STAB alliance hate Targaryens. Northern lords most of all. They didn't fight and win a continent sized war for two years just to replace one Targaryen with another Targaryen.
The Dornish would absolutely want a lot more than just the death of the Mountain and Amory Lorch. It’s clear they rightfully see Tywin as the brains behind Elia and her children murder and ideally would want him dead as well. Unless that happened tensions would remain with the Dornish, especially if Ned or Aemon’s regime try to bring the Lannisters into the royal fold. Also the Dornisg would NOT be happy to see Rhaegar’s son with another woman on the Throne, they would probably consider him a bastard. I could see them supporting a rebellion led by Viserys, marrying Arianne to him and even marrying Daenerys to Quentin. Or the Dorinish pursue Southern independence in this timeline instead of the North.
Realistically, no one would've accepted Jon as Rhaegar's legitimate kid, (Even the Northmen) and Ned wouldn't even suspect that they had possibly gotten married at all, because Rhaegar was already married.
He can simply send Targaryen Boy to Citadel , and fix the marriage of Danny with his son Rob Stark . A simple way to finish the Targaryen male line and any possibility of rebellion.
16:39 I don't know how old lord Tyrell is at that time, but he would be the best candidate. Or even Oberyn Martell. OR tywin would push to marry her to Viserys and plot to put him on the throne!
"Our is the Fury" Robert would team up with Tywin to kill Jon. Robert would be know as the Dragon hunter for his need to kill the remaining dragons. Robert would team with the Greyjoys and Tywin and maybe even some of other lords to rebel again
I don't think Jaime would be sent to the wall for one reason, in this scenario he would absolutely reveal WHY he killed Aerys, and while Ned still wouldn't like him, that would be a good enough excuse to avoid the worst punishments. Ned would expel him from the kingsguard though, something Twyin would ironically be very happy about
The fix for Ned, being still, Lord of Winterfell, is easy. Rob lives with him for the first eight years of his life but Dennis returned to take the title of acting Lord of Winterfell, and learn under Benjen. It also helps deal with any political problems. His oldest son, being far away from the throne to prevent people from using him as for marriages, I can see Rob marrying Daenerys or being betrothed, and then both being sent up to Winterfell to separate the Targaryen children, especially if Viserys starts acting insane. As far as marriages go for Aemon there are only three real choices that actually matter and would help his rule. Previously mentioned Maraery and Sansa with both be good matches are in and also Arienna Martell, Duran daughter. I don’t see Ned actually marrying Sansa and Aemon to each other it’s acceptable, but he’s not stupid. He would realize that there are better matches. As cold and calculating as it is the second he has confirmation that one or the other does not like them. He needs to send Sansa back north to live there and possibly act as a bond between his brothers family and his. In all honesty, he needs to filter his children out of the capital and back into the north as much as possible especially is oldest. The younger three have more of a sibling relationship with Aemon in the books and TV show so there’s no problems there or threat of usurpation or marriage problems so they can probably stay a bit longer, but the oldest need to be in the north as soon as possible. Now, as for the other two marriage prospects, there’s a possibility of a bunch of intertwining marriages happening near the beginning of the regency to buy in the room back together, and make it impossible for anyone to go to war with someone else. I would recommend Cersei and Stannis they’ll hate each other or they’ll become an absolute power couple, but put those two together I’m not going to say Robert, because in all honesty, the likelihood of him spending may be a decade in Westeros, then heading off to fight in the disputed land is highly likely so get ahead of that with that marriage. I am from what I gather mace Tyrells oldest would be a good match to Duran daughter and they’re about the same age so that would work there are and the tallies already are married into multiple houses, so Edumere can marry whoever he wants when he becomes to age. That leaves Margaery and honestly the best match considering their army their crops end everything else. I married a Lannister’s to the Baratheon, and when Robert eventually give us his title away, you have lawful Stannis in charge, who won’t go against the throne if he’s given a vow. The Tullys are married to the Starks and Arryns who are closely bonded to the Baratheon‘s, and all, but blood may be hard feelings, but still close. The Tyrells in the Martells marry, so that they don’t start trying to kill each other and to avoid marriage problems later on. And now that I think about it, you can actually after the Greyjoy rebellion have asha merry Edmure and Ned can also begin teaching Theon proper ways to govern, and when eventually Balon dies or not feel safe, sending him back, knowing he won’t betray them. You have someone who’s actually trained in helping the islands upgrade. It’s a hot political mess that would take Ned and Jon forever to figure out but I believe between the two of them they could do it.
I think wouldn’t expose Jon until Ned had fully secured his own power, and when Jon is of age and can actually sit the throne, I think Ned would make sure Robb is prepared to be heir to winterfell as to not get his hopes up for being king, he’d probably tell cat. Ned would also probably ally with other houses through marriage.
I think a slight variation to your timeline might also be worth exploring. What if Robert was wounded (or also killed) at the Trident while killing Rhaegar, and that provideds the reason for Ned to ascend the throne. Then the Tywin would doubtless choose not to unleash the mountain on Ellia and children, thus removing that emnity between the starks and lanisters.
Wow, this is actually really fascinating. If Ned becomes King, then regent after Jon Snow/Aemon Targaryen reach majority, it might make things stable but the idea of Benjen’s Stark family being in Winterfall while Eddard is technically still its Lord. The hypothetical conflict between Kings Landing’s Stark and Winterfell’s Stark is fascinating, would Benjen’s branch of Stark would want to have Winterfell if Benjen has ruled its castle while its actual ruler was living at Kings Landing. Then after Aemon reach his majority, Eddard comes back to finally rule after years of being in the south, would the North see Ned & Robb as true northerners or just southerners since they lived in Kings Landing for years. I’m curious if anyone made a fanfic based on this scenario, it’s interesting to think about.
You can't be king and then change to regent. Also, it's very unlikely for anyone to accept Jon Snow as a king, he was a bastard whether Lyanna married Rhaegar or not (because polygamy isn't accepted by the realm at all anymore, the last who tried had Balerion and had all the realm revolt up against him) the most likely course in this scenario with Ned as king is going to go like this. Ned's base is strong enough to keep him as king for a while, however in order to keep his throne, he's first going to punish Gregor/Armory (Tywin's role in it is only rumored) and executed, Jaime gets kicked off the kingsguard, (Jon Arryn will convince him not to, though probably it'll come out why he did it) then he'll have Robb betrothed to Dany (who along with Vizzy T III and her mother are probably convinced to stay) while Vizzy is going to be made Prince of Summerhall (which he would rebuild) and betrothed to Sansa as soon as she is born, while Jon will end up having some castle given to him, and made a cadet branch. Robert would either marry Cersei, or a Hightower daughter and be Lord of the Stormlands and help secure Ned's rule, while Jaime would marry and have his own legitimate kids just like Cersei would have Robert's kids. Benjen marries a Northern girl and becomes Lord of Winterfell and has kids. While Robb is eventually made the Prince of Dragonstone. As a result, the realm would be stable until the Greyjoy Rebellion, which is easily beaten again, then more stability. Now in a generation or two might be a rebellion, but that would most likely be easily beaten.
@@Aaron_Guest Actually if we see the show versione of the story as real the High Sept before marrying Lyanna to Rhaegar nullified Rhaegar marriage with Elia therefore it was all legit and no polygamy. And to be fair I do think you misunderstood a point here... even if we do not consider what I said before polygamy was actually accepted. This is how it went: the faith militant was outraged that Aegon I both did poligamy and incest but Aegon was smart and wanting peace met them and agreed to term "the faith would drop the matter for Aegon life and SO ON IF there'd be no more INCEST". Aegon sweared and so was. Later when Aenys was king, the Faith started an uprising because Aenys wed his son Aegon to Rhaena (respectively Aenys' daughter and Aegon's sister). The problem you refer to in the first paragraph is actually no more a problem as the faith militant and some smaller lords rebelled due to the incest and not the polygamy (which still is not the problem in Jon Snow case). And so if we speak about Jon's time and case there is no problem at all as at this point of the storyline the incest between Targaryen is considered to be fine so there is at all no problem.
I looked on AO3, but this isn't a very popular fanfic scenario. There is a Tag 'Ned Stark Playing the Game of Thrones' with 8 fanfics, but all of them seem to be Ned going North to sneakily plan a Targaryen Restoration when "Jon" is old enough. I mean, I'm sure someone has written it, but I haven't though of the right search terms to find it.
The reason why Jon name is Aegon is because it was prophesized in House of the Dragon that the Prince that was Promise would be a Targaryen, and he would have the name of the conqueror. That is the reason why Targaryens names a lot of their kids "Aegon", in hopes that they might be the one. George does this thing where he makes more than one Aegon alive simultaneously, so we don't exactly know which one it is. If Jon isn't Aegon Targaryen, he is not the Prince that was promise, simple math.
Great video but you haven't considered Littlefinger and in his chaotic nature what he would try and do. He would still probably be Master Of Coin as Jon Arryn vouched for him in the original timeline. Possibly kill Ned in some sort of way as he wants to eventually be with Cat and consolidate more power, maybe poison? Blame it on another house and set them against each other to cause a war and in the chaos gain more power. Maybe Starks vs Lannisters or Starks vs Tyrells? Another thing is that since Jon is the Azor Ahai figure and ISN'T at the wall a lot will change, plus since Benjen isn't a part of the Nights Watch as well. Bran isn't past the wall as well and doesn't break his legs, maybe Three Eyed Raven chooses someone else? Lots of Wildlings will die, Sam will die since Jon doesn't save him, Wildlings will never truce with the Nights Watch, and as you said eventually Night King wins. But perhaps you're right and lack of dragons avoid them passing the wall. Brotherhood without Banners will never be formed, so a lot of Lord of the Light stuff if it does occur will go another way. Melisandre maybe doesn't go with Stannis since he's not going for the Throne. Ned is a big believer of the Old Gods, does he try and change religion or conform to it in Kings Landing? Religion could be a big conflict among the people, especially Septons.
I always believed that if Ned took the throne, he would punish the ones that deserve to be people like the Mountain and Tywin for example, and protect the ones that don't like Viserys and Dany, because unlike Robert he wouldn't hold kids responsible for the actions of others. Also when part three with Maegor the bronze dragon. Part 2 with Deamon keeps his crown. And finally part 2 with Meakor Waters, because I have a idea, say let he does claim the Cannibal but he doesn't go back to the castle to show off he instead goes to rooks nest because if Aegon and Ameaond see the Cannibal a dragon that is said to be uncontrollable fighting against them, I can see Aegon turning and running, but Ameaond won't so it will be a two on one. Also on a side note some say that the Cannibal is the same size or near to the size of the Balerion is that true, because I don't know how big he is.
So my thoughts are the dragons returning to fight in the long night has to happen like it's fate. The comet that came was not summoned by the dragons rather it's coming likely helped in some small way to have the dragons hatch. Books seem to lean on all the "Gods" are false and it's just primordial magic based on elements i.e. fire magic comes from Volcanoes etc.., so comets which burn as they go through the earths atmosphere would also likely empower fire based magic like hatching dragon eggs. Anyway I think certain things were pre destined to happen (meaning no mater what else changes certain things will always happen). A child of ice and fire, a bleeding star, dragons being awakened from stone.
Ned would've have personally taken both Gregor's and Tywin's heads with Ice or handed one or both of them to the Dornish as a show of empathy and act of proving that they would at least have their justice/vengeance against them, and knowing what had happened wouldn't go with punishment.
I think there would have been dragon eggs. Illyrio Mopatis would be Danaerys’s host and if she gets picked as Aemond’s Queen, he’d gift them to her just as he did in the original timeline. Would they hatch, though? They could certainly try, but I doubt the maesters of Oldtown would allow it. There is also the rumoured dragon in Winterfell. Then it could be a race between Aemond, Danaerys and the Night King to claim it. We all know that dragons pick who gets to ride them so there’s no telling which would win out.
The only way I could see Ned taking the throne is if all three Baratheon brothers died in the war. If Robert simply abdicated Ned would support Stannis' claim, or Renly's if Stannis were dead. Also if the Targaryen children's inheritance rights were recognized Viserys would come before Jon in the order of succession.
The most relevant factor is he wouldn't be in the North to call the banners, so the North may be slower than any other army to engage the enemy. Even assuming the timeline of that is the same and he simply isn't with the Northhmen, the banners were called when Ned was taken, the Battle on the Green Fork soon after and the Whispering Wood shortly after his death, but Robb was foremost tactician for both.
I would rather the Starks to be the royal family try to beat the Targaryen ruling record of 283 years and beyond and Robb stark being heir of the 7 kingdoms Jon can have dragon stone and marry Daenerys or some other girl
Robert would be named master of war for a short time but after the Greyjoy rebellion he would give up the position posibly his lordship and move to the free cities and join a mercenary group so he can drink, whore, feast, and fight his way to an early grave.
Ned's best shot at sitting the throne imo is by Jon Arryn putting him there. He'd know Ned is a far more level headed leader and he's the only one who could convince Robert to give it up if he had his mind on it. Ned would have a lot of support from the other houses at this point imo
If Jamie was sentenced to take the black, his father could intercept him on the road and send him to Essos. Tywin would then prepare a plot to kill Ned, because a Lannister always pays his debts 🦁
People really overblow how terrible robert was as a king. Not doing any ruling is not that bad for a feudalist ruler, they could be making the realm actively a lot worse instead. His predecessor and heir are two very good examples
It should definitely be mentioned Neds main issue and opposition with being king would be his faith. He doesn't follow the faith of the seven which is the majority religion in westeros.
There was a lot you got wrong for one Tywin would love to be king, he became Jofrey's hand so he could act as de facto king. For two Ned doesn't have to discover Jon is a Targaryen he is already aware that's the secret he is protecting( in the show at least.)
Tywin would absolutely have taken the iron throne if he had the claim to it, he didn't, so he decided to turn the king into a puppet and be the king in all but name.
But Rhaegar was disinherited before he ascended the throne and Vicerys was made heir by Aerys so technically Jon wouldn't be the heir anyways@@fourth-dimensionalbeing9737
I have a few questions. What if Brandon stark never rode South or his father? What if Robert was killed at the battle of the bells or at Ashford by randyll tarly? With Robert dead would stannis surrender? Plus aerys would still want Ned, hoster And Jon arrayn gone 🤔
I dont think Ned would make Jon heir even if he told his identity, mostly because it would piss the tullys off big time and Jon Arryn would probably talk him out of it. Especially since Ned will assume Jon is a bastard at first if not forever.
I think Ned would let it be known Jon is the rightful Targ claimant in this case, marry him to his first daughter then argue the legitimate Targaryen claim rests with House Stark if anyone tries stirring up Pro Viserys sentiments Edit: Yeah I wrote this when he was discussing Viserys and Dany, so missed the Jon stuff.
Imma be honest, he'd be killed within a few months by someone trying to take the throne, the whole point of the story and the world is that good people don't usually rule for long as bleak and even edgy as that might be. Being a warden is one thing and he already had people moving to take that from the Starks already, honorable is grand as is merciful, but half the leaders that are talked about aren't that, even in reality.
Though would he start digging for the marriage proof? Sam was in the right place at the right time. I wonder from that there, Jon is still a Bastard though I bet Ned would allow him to be a true born. I can't wait to see more Maegor Royce. WHAT IF.... Myrcella had survived her being poisoned? Viserys didn't marry anyone?
No he wouldn't, no one would even suspect that they married, and even if he somehow did find it, no one would accept Jon, as polygamy isn't allowed. Not to mention that after you are king, you can't just not be king. Most likely Viserys is made Prince of Summerhall and married to Sansa, Dany betrothed to Robb to solidify House Stark's rule on the throne, while Jon would've became a kingsguard or something.
Why come up with a cool scenario but then immediately abandon it???? Especially since abdication doesn't exist in ASOIAF, and no one would accept Jon as any legitimate Targaryen because polygamy doesn't exist, (even the Northmen wouldn't they would've been enraged that Lyanna simply chose to run away and be a "harlot" for a married prince) and marriages can't be annulled once kids have been made in it.(Also, Ned would never even slightly suspect that Lyanna and Rhaegar had married anyway, even if he thought she ran How bout this instead... Ned claims the throne at the Sack, (be it through ambition or lets say that the Pact of Ice and Fire was successfully filled long ago and he has some Targaryen blood in him, or rebel lords push for him to be king when Robert declines or various reasons) he'd immediately execute Gregor and Amory, while kicking Jaime out of the Kingsguard. (Tywin was only rumored to order it, while it would've beyond foolish for Ned to send him to the Nights Watch because it's basically the same as killing him and on Arryn would convince him out of it easily maybe a trial happens and the wildfire plot is proven even and Jaime is proclaimed a hero) Before arranging for Viserys and Dany to come back under the condition that Daenerys would marry Robb and be queen, while Viserys would be made the Prince of Summerhall (Dragonstone is the seat of the heir of the throne and would be too risky to grant to Viserys, if Ned thought of it, Jon Arryn would immediately convince him against it and) and betrothed to the first daughter of Ned, (It's even possible that Rhaella survives as she'd be under less stress because negotiations would've been under way and with Ned handling the murderers of her grandkids and daughter-in-law) before he went off to get Lyanna and finds Jon. Jon is then known publicly as the bastard child of Rhaegar and Lyanna though he's probably known as Aemon here though, because again no one would even suspect that the two were married (in the show) and even if they did, polygamy is no longer allowed, and no one would've supported him anyway. After he'd get back, he'd officially be coronated and Robb would become the Prince of Dragonstone. Though I'll say that Ned is knighted by Ser Brynden Tully to appease the southerners. (He won't convert nor will his family, however he will be knighted, and Robb too in the future) Then the marriages after it would've gone as follows. Cersei married to Robert who is the Lord of the Stormlands now, (most likely a few years after the war, and she most likely has his legit kids with her being away from Jaime) Edmure likely is set up to marry a Hightower, (there is far more reason to help keep peace in the country with Cat as Queen, I'll say he marries Leyla Hightower) Jaime also likely marries a Hightower, (Tywin had sent an offer for Tyrion to marry one but it was rebuffed, but with Jaime I doubt it would be) while Benjen who now is made Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North would marry a Northern girl, I'll say probably Jonelle Cerwyn. (I'd say she makes the most sense) While Ned's reign would be far more capable than Robert's. His small council would consists of Jon Arryn as hand, Pycelle Grand Maester, (maybe not long though) Master of Ships Wyman Manderly, Master of Coin probably Kevan Lannister, (Baelish would never rise high as a result) Master of Laws probably Hoster Tully, (it's possible he doesn't get sick like in canon now) Master of Whispers Varys. (going with the thought that he told Ned where to find Lyanna, if not probably Roose Bolton instead) While the Gold Cloaks commander would either be Mors Crowfood, or Hother Whoresbane Umber. While his kingsguard would have Ser Barristan Selmy (Lord Commander) Ser Brynden Tully, (great option for Ned) Ser Lynn Corbray, (great fighter and wields Lady Forlorn) Ser Marlon Manderly, (he was tall and stout it's highly likely that he earned his knighthood fighting in the rebellion and he leads a garrison in White Harbor so he is likely very competent) Ser Mandon Moore (he was recommended by Jon Arryn and Jaime even calls him one of the most dangerous men of the kingsguard) probably one of Greatjon's brother's, (mot likely would've been just as strong and skilled as he was) along with probably Willem Darry as a compromise to help appease ethe Targaryens so they'd have another person that will protect them unquestionably. (or maybe instead Ser Balon Swann ends up joining the kingsguard afterall it is a way to help appease the Stormlords) When the Greyjoy Rebellion happened it ends just as fast as in canon, however now Balon will lose his head, (this level of treason won't be allowed to simply pass by Ned like Robert allowed it to) and Theon is still brought back to King's Landing and befriends Robb still. Ned putting this down would essentially cement his rule as it did Robert's. Now eventually, there may be some unrest or maybe even a small Faith Rebellion during Ned/possibly Robb's rule later on, however it's likely that with most of Ned's rule being prosperous many of the smallfolk and lords end up converting to the Old Gods or sort of not caring about it. (Especially since the Faith is much weaker now than it was during Maegor for example) Once the White Walkers did invade, they'd be sufficiently beaten relatively easy, as the realm would be united and undamaged from any wars, and would've been led by great generals. Though I'll also say that it is still possible that Dany still manages to hatch the dragons, they'd just have different names. As there are other ways that she can hatch them, and it's possible that she gets them eventually. I'll also say that Jon (Aemon) becomes a kingsguard in this scenario.
Suppose the issue is religion and precedent. If someone not of royal blood can take the throne because they are powerful then it opens the door for everyone else. Especially as they would be ruled by someone of a minority old gods worshiper vs majority faith of the seven. While ned isn't super religious he seems to be at least steadfast in his fait to change, though maybe he'd let rob be brought up in the faith if the seven. So being regent makes the most sense. Suppose the main issue could be Viserys as he could obtain a proper education as he wouldn't be a begger king and so might be in a position to the main symbol of resistance to Jon/Aemond as these those who would consider Jon a bastard as many might not consider his parents marriage as legal. Especially as Dorne may still wish for more revenge and the tyrells advantage
I think the best move regarding both keeping Tywin happy and also giving the Martells justice is to either personally execute Lorch and Gregor and send their heads to Dorne, or to just straight up give them to Doran and Oberyn, whichever one they prefer. Then on the flipside for cooperating and handing them over, Tywin gets Jaime back as his heir by relieving him from the Kingsguard and possibly also giving him the position of Master of Coin so he still stays influential. That way, Tywin gets something even better than marrying into the royal line in his eyes, which is ofc the continuation of his legacy through Jaime, and he gets to keep having a significant presence in King's Landing as one of the most powerful people in Westeros.
I don’t understand why Ned hates Jaime so much for killing the mad king. They were fighting a rebellion against the insane king and Jaime saved the city from burning. Does Ned not know this or not care?
10:40 'these are kids well at least one of them is" then the ages are 9 and infant. Are you saying one is a kid and one is a baby? Or On is grown and one is a kid? Because to me they're both kids no matter how you spin it.
He wasn't ambitious enough to take it and not smart enough to keep it. If Robert was alive at the end of the war he's not going to let Ned take it without war and the only way he wins that is Tywin who's not going to come cheap
He wouldn't have made it to GoT. Targ loyalists would've easily rebounded and rebelled against Ned the nanosecond he passed up the Targ purges. Lets not mention how outmaneuvered he would be at the mercy of players like Varys and Tywin.(whose loyalty to Robert was only kept with his marriage to Cersei) The Reach, The Westerlands, Dorne, Iron Islands prolly...hell, even Roose Bolton wouldve had a great opportunity to stab Ned in the back and split off a large of the North against him. Without purging the Targaryans, Ned would be seen by half of Westeros as nothing more than a usurper sitting in young Aegon's throne.
Vizzy still takes the throne, or Rhaenys/Corlys attempt to seize power, but end up getting murked by Daemon, (Laenor/Laena are both dragonless and babies they aren't a threat, while Caraxes was already battle proven) so, Corlys and Rhaenys are dead, while Laena/Laenor are taken hostage and most likely aren't ever allowed near dragons, Rhaenyra probably is then immediately betrothed to Laenor though, (Driftmark and the Velayron fleet would be powerful, and they have claims) Daemon probably is able to divorce Rhea Royce and would be betrothed to Laena. However, when Aemma dies and Viserys marries Alicent, the question of succession is never in doubt the proved women couldn't inherit, so Aegon would be acknowledged as heir by Viserys, and would inherit the throne peacefully.
@@Aaron_Guest I'm too sure the power differential is too high as to getting 'murked' that fast; Meleys was said to have stood a chance against Vhagar alone if it wasn't for the 1 vs 2 at Rook's Rest (and even then she effectively almost killed Sunfyre/Aegon while holding off the largest dragon in present day). I've always thought Meleys vs Ceraxes would be a close fight. In the books Meleys was likewise said to be 'battle-tested', but this is an interesting point of discussion as there was no conflict explicitly mentioning Meleys participation, so not sure this was a retcon from GRRM or if she truly was implied to be in some conflict (e.g perhaps during the stepstones?). Laenor claims Seasmoke at the age of 7 (during the Great Council), although it was mentioned he didn't ride him yet. Could a conflict push Corlys to get the young child to ride? Not sure, on the one hand I'd say way too young but on the otherhand Lucerys had a much smaller dragon and was riding at the age of 13 when he got chomped. GRRM also has a habit of making incredibly young children do mature things so alas. I've always thought the Blues vs the Blacks would be a much more interesting Dance IMO; either before the council if Jaehaerys would pass or sometime in the future when both factions secure more dragonriders.
@@RedMeleys -I'm too sure the power differential is too high as to getting 'murked' that fast; Meleys was said to have stood a chance against Vhagar alone if it wasn't for the 1 vs 2 at Rook's Rest (and even then she effectively almost killed Sunfyre/Aegon while holding off the largest dragon in present day). I've always thought Meleys vs Ceraxes would be a close fight. In the books Meleys was likewise said to be 'battle-tested', but this is an interesting point of discussion as there was no conflict explicitly mentioning Meleys participation, so not sure this was a retcon from GRRM or if she truly was implied to be in some conflict (e.g perhaps during the stepstones?). That quote seems massively overly inflated and misused, it's stated that Vhagar was the strongest dragon and Caraxes the second in the Dance, it would be massively illogical for her to be able to take down Vhagar. Meleys also was never said to be "battle tested" in the book , that was only in the show where it also makes no sense for it to happen. -Laenor claims Seasmoke at the age of 7 (during the Great Council), although it was mentioned he didn't ride him yet. Could a conflict push Corlys to get the young child to ride? Not sure, on the one hand I'd say way too young but on the otherhand Lucerys had a much smaller dragon and was riding at the age of 13 when he got chomped. GRRM also has a habit of making incredibly young children do mature things so alas. If they tried to hold off longer, than they wouldn't have been able to have any support. While, it also would've given time for the lords to acclimate to his rule, while if they did, than Rhaenyra would've been around for her father as well and Seasmoke would've essentially been checked by Syrax, or more Viserys and the royals would've managed to be evacuated from the capitol, meaning Viserys escapes to Dragonstone, where he claims Vermithor and shuts it down (he did have Balerion, however given the evidence form the book where both Aegon and Rhaenyra expected to hatch more dragons, and script in the show where Daemon asked Viserys to tame a dragon with him again, then he'd be able to easily claim Vermithor especially since Hugh could do it) along with Daemon. -I've always thought the Blues vs the Blacks would be a much more interesting Dance IMO; either before the council if Jaehaerys would pass or sometime in the future when both factions secure more dragonriders. The Dance should've either been Aegon and the Greens vs. Daemon, Daemon vs. Rhaenyra, (with no greens as they don't exist) or a three-way civil war with the Greens, Blacks, (have Rhaenyra married to Harwin or a Lannister) and Daemon (say he has more kids with Laena) all fighting it out. The way it is in canon really makes no since, as no medieval king wouldn't have acknowledged Aegon as their heir, and in a more realistic scenario, no one would support Rhaenyra against Aegon especially given the setup of how GRRM established Westeros, with Rhaenys' line getting voted out by like 20 to 1.
Ned is neutral about the Targaryans? They burned his father and oldest brother alive .... I think, altho not as much as robert, Eddard Stark most definetly carried hate for the Dragons
Ned probably would want to put Jaime under trial before sentencing him, this could lead to Jaime revealing that Aerys wanted to burn the city, a quick investigation would reveal the wildfire, after that revelation Arryn could easily convince Ned that the best punishment would be to free Jaime of his vows, that would make Tywin gratefull and more willingly to handle Clegano and Lorch to the Martells. The main problem to Ned's rule would be the Septons, Ned is a pagan in their eyes, a non follower sitting in the Iron Throne would be considered blasphemy and they would demand Ned to convert before becoming King. The best solution for this problem would be to declare Robb the King with him as Regent, engage him to Dany and raise him at King's Landing in the Faith with his second son becoming the Heir of Winterfell.
What if after the rebellion, Robert pardoned Jaime, but instead of remaining on the kingsguard sent him into exile for 10 years? What if Daemon was Rhaenyra’s father? (Daemon’s Harrenhal vision with his mother was a contortion of a memory with Aemma when he was young, around the time she fell pregnant with Rhaenyra.)
I think from in world perspective Ned would be viewed like a Cincinnatus like figure. A man who assumed absolute power to save the country from a mad man and rule in the name of his nephew until he willingly surrendered power to said nephew when he came of age. He would be viewed very positively by most people, they would see him as the gold standard for a reagent.
*regent
@@carastone3473🤡
I think the right move for King Ned is to pardon Jaimie, begrudgingly, and release him from his vows. Cersei doesnt get to be queen but Tywin gets his heir back. Itd keep the Lannisters in line and with Jaimie at the Rock, it doesnt really have to be in Ned's face. Thats the right move that Arryn would recommend
Pardon jaime? Absolutely not. Jaime is going to the wall and Ned is requesting for Tywin's head after Elia's brutal death at the hands of the mountain.
Tywin and Littlefinger would’ve caused so much damage to the crowns finances if Jaime died💀
Everyone’s gonna starve over there in Kingslanding
@nathanlandolt5505 That's the same thing I just posted, only you put it a lot more concisely! 😄
Also, we know Ned has the ability to weigh the abstract concept of honor against real world harm when necessary. That's why he raised Jon as his bastard in the canon timeline.
@@Rengokuo4o6 ned is not that fugging stupid he isnt stannis
@@Rengokuo4o6 like did you even read the books or watch the show
If Dany and Viserys were kept as wards/hostages and Theon is still Ned's ward, it would certainly be an interesting household, to say the least.
I think you should continue this story with a part 2...and possibly a part 3. This scenario turned out to be WAY more interesting than I initially thought!
King Eddard be like:
If there was a problem, yo I'll solve it.
Kneel by this stump while my great sword resolves it.
ICE ICE BABY TOO COOOLD.
YO. Winter is coming.
Niceeee
I like the idea of Robb staying in winterfell to eventually become lord of winterfell while being mentored by Benjen. And then when when Robb comes of age or Ned returns, Benjen starts his own family like the Karstarks did
What if Myrcella “Baratheon” married Robb Stark instead Joffrey & Sansa?
What if Jamie Lannister was at the Tower Of Joy instead of Gerold Hightower?
What if Rhaelle Baratheon, Robert, Stannis & Renly’s grandmother was still alive during Robert’s Rebellion?
Or if Robert's parents never died
Robert: Fck the Targaryens! I'll kill every Targaryen I see!
Rhaelle:
Robert:
Robert: oh right
@@ifeeldead463 "Sorry nan"
Robert: Damn those Targaryans! I'll slay them all!
Rhaelle:
Robert:
Robert: oh right
(I think yt deleted my og comment :/)
Robert the Giga Chad Baratheon would’ve caved in Rhalle’s breast plate
Probably shattered every rib she had
Imagine the bards writing sad love ballad for them about Lyanna and Robert dying together at the Tower of Joy, and Ned bans it from being played in Winterfell. Everyone thinks it's because he can't stand the memory of losing his sister and best friend, but Ned hates keeping up the lie that Lyanna in any way loved Robert.
Jon's real name being Aemon was a theory of mine for years, so I'm very happy to see you use it here. It's still my headcanon.
I think it’s wrong to assume that people just accept Rhaegar’s second marriage as legitimate or even believe it is true. Divorce in that time period usually happened on the grounds of infidelity, impotence/bareness, lack of a male heir, lack of consummation, or consanguinity. Divorces between royalty were also requested, reviewed and granted by the Pope. Elia and Rhaegar’s marriage doesn’t fit any of these circumstances and the annulment wasn’t properly reviewed and officially granted by the High Septon. Not to mention that Lyanna was betrothed to someone else.
There’s more than enough grounds for Aemon’s legitimacy or even parentage to be questioned. I can see Targaryen loyalists, opportunists, and disgruntled people rallying around Viserys/Daenaerys. If Viserys is anything like he is in canon, I can see him raising a rebellion to take the throne. Queen Rhaella may not raise him that way, especially if she believes Aemon to be Rhaegar’s son but I think Viserys would go for it as an adult regardless of what she thinks.
100%
It was the High Septon that married Lyanna and Rhaegar together, as the first passage of this union that Samwell Tarly finds was in the High Septon’s personal book. Also in the tv show, the flashback Bran has shows them marrying under the faith of the seven. You can assume from this that Rhaegar and Elia’s marriage was annulled. Otherwise it would have been illegal or even treason for the High Septon to do this - especially since the faith of the seven is very particular in their ceremonies. Also, the High Septon would still be alive when all this is being brought into question and he can personally account to everything that happened between Elia, Rhaegar and Lyanna.
I think this would bring most people over to Ned’s side in making Jon the future king, as he already has power over the north, the Riverlands and the vale. Maybe the stormlands too since Robert likely wouldn’t go against Ned in an actual war but he might also not help him either. People who believe in the faith of the seven would trust the High Septon, this brings in Lords from the Reach, like the Hightowers and such. Although, I do think the Tyrell’s wouldn’t show immediate support to either side because right now they have very low respect in Westeros, due to Mace Tyrell doing essentially nothing during the war, and they have no power to display. I also think Ned wouldn’t immediately ask for the Tyrell’s support either if a war did happen, because the Tyrell’s will ask for a betrothal between Margaery and Jon, and that would anger the Stormlands due to the Tyrell’s starving them in the war.
For everyone else I do believe it is dependant on the political situation if they are for or against Ned. For example, the Crownlands would decide with whatever Rhaella chooses, as they did protect her against Robert in the OG timeline so it’s most likely the same here. Jon is rhaellas grandson and her last grandchild alive, would she want to go to war agaisn’t him that might have to end in Jon’s death? I feel like this can go either way on how distraught/angry she is after finding out about her family dying. I also feel like her decision would decide Dornes and the Westerlsnds allegiance too. If she does go to war, Dorne is an easy ally as it was also their family that died in the rebellion and they could offer marriage between Viserys and Arianne to fulfill what was meant to be Dornisn blood on the throne. For the westerlands, as stated in the video, Tywin doesn’t want to go to war to be king himself but only if he could control the king. Also, Rhaella is going to die in her pregnancy with Daenerys, possibly giving Tywin even more control over Viserys. If this route happens, then it could also sway the Tyrell’s and even the Stormlands. However, without Rhaella choosing war, I don’t think Dorne or the Westerlsnds would fight against Ned, as Tywin doesn’t want to be king himself and Dorne alone would not be strong enough.
This was so much fun to think about, sorry for overloading my response, I only wanted to mention the high Septon but then got carried away. I do believe what you said about Jon’s legitimacy causing issues and writing this out, I can easily see how Westeros could turn against Ned. Although, I do believe it would more be about vengeance and using Jon’s legitimacy issue as a scapegoat.
Pretty sure some septons would stir the people to riot against a heathen on the throne
Yeah, this is the main reason Ned would never have been King.
Well we know that even in the cannon, Ned's children are raised according to both faiths. Maybe in this timeline, he would make a compromise with the religious establishment where his heir would be raised solely according to the faith of the seven
I agree with everything, just want to add some stuff.
1) Tywin will organize an escape for Jaime on the way to the wall
2) Tywin will see Jon as a threat and try to take him out. Possibly Catelyn and Robb too to make a Lannister queen.
3) Jon will likely grow close to Sansa romantically since he seems to fancy her in the books.
4) Ned will send Robb to foster with benjin as soon as he’s old enough
5) Ned will probably try to make a match with Margery tyrell or a Martell for Jon to strengthen the realm
6) Ned would most likely accept the position as hand as Robb would rule as warden in the north when jon becomes king.
And finally 7) Ned would ask ashara Dayne to come to kings landing. Not as his lover or wife, but as a foster mother for jon. Ned would know jon (and viserys and Daenerys) needs a mother, know Catelyn wasn’t capable of it, and trusted ashara explicitly.
if i recall the only reason catelyn wasnt cabable of acting as a mother to jon was simply because she thought he was neds bastard and a reminder that ned loved someone else enough to cheat on her so in this scenario i dont think she would have to much of an issue helping raise him as he is neds nephew
I can see this scenario, but not with Robert handing Ned the crown. I think the moment of change needs to be the Battle of the Trident. The rebellion wins the battle and Rhaegar still dies, but so does Robert. This Leads Ned to be effectively the leader of the rebellion. Everything else goes as it did, with the Lannisters sacking King's Landing, Dany and her brother escaping, the Mad King being slain by Jaime and so on. The Rebellion has won and the Targaryens are ousted. The high lords, realising that there'd be utter chaos if there was no king, pressure Ned into accepting. He might not have any blood of the dragon in him, but he is now, with Robert's fall, the leader of the winning side, and so won by right of conquest. Ned won't want the throne, naturally, but is convinced to do so when he comes to understand that there'd be further infighting if he's not there keeping things together. And thus, House Stark becomes the ruling family of Westeros ^_^
John Arryn would definitely advise to keep Tywin on his side and not send Jaimie to the Nights Watch. Have him stripped if his white cloak and have him dissavowed as a Knight. It would keep the Lannisters appeased
Very good! Though I think Jon Arryn would advise merely kicking Jaime off the Kingsguard over sentencing him to the Night's Watch. This would appease Tywin Lannister, who still has lots of gold which could be very helpful as the Realm reconstructs. Also, if given a choice over execution or taking the Black, Jaime's too likely to demand a trial by combat, which depending on whether Barristan Selmy is recovered enough to fight him at the time or not, he's going to lose and die (alienating Tywin) or win and thus be completely absolved.
"At which point he would be able to demand to remain on the Kingsguard, since the gods declared him innocent. This would be a tricky legal situation, so it might be wiser, your Grace, to simply restore Jaime as Tywin's heir. He was fifteen when he was appointed to the Kingsguard, so he was a legal minor, and his oath was arguably under duress, which could be used as face-saving excuses. ...Look, boy, honor is important, but when you undertake to rule a kingdom, sometimes you have to be a little flexible and consider the bigger picture. The last thing the Realm needs right now is a second Hour of the Wolf, understand?"
Or at least that's what I imagine Jon Arryn saying under these circumstances. I mean, he apparently was okay with Robert deciding to fully pardon Jaime in canon, and if he had any serious reservations about that I imagine the newly-crowned Robert would have heeded his foster father.
The idea of dragons never going extinct would be really interesting, not only would it increase the Targaryen power, probably stop Roberts rebellion, or maybe he himself could find a way to get a dragon (like how at first only USA had a-bombs, know the whole world does), and mostly likely it would of been much easier to stop the long night
They’d probably still go extinct during the blackfyre rebellions.
But lets say they didn’t
There would easily be hundreds of dragons by now, i think a bunch of them would also be left riderless.
Aerys would have one (which would literally be the worst thing ever)
Rhaegar would have one
Visy
Rhaenys
Dany
Aegon
And that isnt even taking into consideration the fact that other houses might have dragons as well due to marriage.
House valeryon would still be a super power
The world would look completely different
If the dragons didn't go extinct, Westeros would have another dance of dragons but in a large scale eventually
@@juanmasingh good point, after Aegon IV died, there would of been another dance of the dragons
@@juanmasingh The Blackfyre rebellions suddenly become bloodier.
@@juanmasinghif dragons survived and avoided extinction, the game of thrones would have been incredibly interesting to say the least
Ned being crowned would be an irreversible action. Once the lords swear their oaths to him and the High Septon crowns him, everything is pretty much set in stone. Robb would be the heir no matter what. And Ned attempting anything else would be a disaster akin to what Viserys the first did.
Robert might vacate the throne for Ned, but not for Rhaegar's son (bastard or otherwise).
I could see many supporters of Robert’s Rebellion rejecting Jon/Aemon. They don’t want a Targaryen restoration, many would consider Jon/Aemon a bastard or not even believed in his parentage. Ned trying to reverse and make Jon the King could certainly cause a rebellion, maybe Robert would lead it.
@@9xprincess Its even worse. Jon's parentage is a secondary issue. These men fought two years to remove the Targaryens. If they wanted a Targaryen, Viserys is right there across the pond. This will definitely cause a lot of trouble. And Ned knows that.
But what can we do? Jon is fan favourite. So lets insert him everywhere.
@@justsome21tf you mean? They ousted Aerys most lords just were in for power.
The North, Riverland and crownsland will be pro Jon. if jon is betrothed to Margery or Arianne one more kingdom.
Lannisters and Baratheons are only anti Targaryen even lords of vale might be conflicted.
@@justsome21also ned stepped down to become regent it's not that he's king and made his nephew his heir.
@@bharatvarshaball4000 He can't step down. That's even more of a joke than making Jon his heir. Once he's crowned by the High Seton, once the lords have sworn oaths of fealty to him (to a Stark, not a Targaryen), its done. The ink is dry. He's king, not a regent.
And the lords of the entire STAB alliance hate Targaryens. Northern lords most of all. They didn't fight and win a continent sized war for two years just to replace one Targaryen with another Targaryen.
What if rob married Doran Martells daughter
maegor royce part 3 please 😢
Seconded
Yes please
Yes, Definitely, Absolutely!!!
I rigged it.
Yes
I will get pretty upset if part 3 doesn't show up on my feed ASAP
The Dornish would absolutely want a lot more than just the death of the Mountain and Amory Lorch. It’s clear they rightfully see Tywin as the brains behind Elia and her children murder and ideally would want him dead as well. Unless that happened tensions would remain with the Dornish, especially if Ned or Aemon’s regime try to bring the Lannisters into the royal fold. Also the Dornisg would NOT be happy to see Rhaegar’s son with another woman on the Throne, they would probably consider him a bastard. I could see them supporting a rebellion led by Viserys, marrying Arianne to him and even marrying Daenerys to Quentin. Or the Dorinish pursue Southern independence in this timeline instead of the North.
Realistically, no one would've accepted Jon as Rhaegar's legitimate kid, (Even the Northmen) and Ned wouldn't even suspect that they had possibly gotten married at all, because Rhaegar was already married.
He can simply send Targaryen Boy to Citadel , and fix the marriage of Danny with his son Rob Stark .
A simple way to finish the Targaryen male line and any possibility of rebellion.
16:39 I don't know how old lord Tyrell is at that time, but he would be the best candidate. Or even Oberyn Martell. OR tywin would push to marry her to Viserys and plot to put him on the throne!
"Our is the Fury"
Robert would team up with Tywin to kill Jon. Robert would be know as the Dragon hunter for his need to kill the remaining dragons.
Robert would team with the Greyjoys and Tywin and maybe even some of other lords to rebel again
"what if ned stark wasn't ned stark?"
Min 7:40 I tink Robert in tath time can submith the Mountain, i mean Gregor have 16-17 years and Robert 18-19 and like 1.90 tall.
Robert is a compact version of the Mountain, and with more dexterity and brain too I'd say
@@fourth-dimensionalbeing9737 Joung Robert vs joung Gregor i bet for Robert
Robert completely bodies the Mountain in his prime.
@@leangelcespedes8694 hell yeah! Robert wins 5 battles in one day
I don't think Jaime would be sent to the wall for one reason, in this scenario he would absolutely reveal WHY he killed Aerys, and while Ned still wouldn't like him, that would be a good enough excuse to avoid the worst punishments. Ned would expel him from the kingsguard though, something Twyin would ironically be very happy about
The fix for Ned, being still, Lord of Winterfell, is easy. Rob lives with him for the first eight years of his life but Dennis returned to take the title of acting Lord of Winterfell, and learn under Benjen. It also helps deal with any political problems. His oldest son, being far away from the throne to prevent people from using him as for marriages, I can see Rob marrying Daenerys or being betrothed, and then both being sent up to Winterfell to separate the Targaryen children, especially if Viserys starts acting insane.
As far as marriages go for Aemon there are only three real choices that actually matter and would help his rule. Previously mentioned Maraery and Sansa with both be good matches are in and also Arienna Martell, Duran daughter. I don’t see Ned actually marrying Sansa and Aemon to each other it’s acceptable, but he’s not stupid. He would realize that there are better matches. As cold and calculating as it is the second he has confirmation that one or the other does not like them. He needs to send Sansa back north to live there and possibly act as a bond between his brothers family and his. In all honesty, he needs to filter his children out of the capital and back into the north as much as possible especially is oldest. The younger three have more of a sibling relationship with Aemon in the books and TV show so there’s no problems there or threat of usurpation or marriage problems so they can probably stay a bit longer, but the oldest need to be in the north as soon as possible.
Now, as for the other two marriage prospects, there’s a possibility of a bunch of intertwining marriages happening near the beginning of the regency to buy in the room back together, and make it impossible for anyone to go to war with someone else. I would recommend Cersei and Stannis they’ll hate each other or they’ll become an absolute power couple, but put those two together I’m not going to say Robert, because in all honesty, the likelihood of him spending may be a decade in Westeros, then heading off to fight in the disputed land is highly likely so get ahead of that with that marriage. I am from what I gather mace Tyrells oldest would be a good match to Duran daughter and they’re about the same age so that would work there are and the tallies already are married into multiple houses, so Edumere can marry whoever he wants when he becomes to age. That leaves Margaery and honestly the best match considering their army their crops end everything else. I married a Lannister’s to the Baratheon, and when Robert eventually give us his title away, you have lawful Stannis in charge, who won’t go against the throne if he’s given a vow. The Tullys are married to the Starks and Arryns who are closely bonded to the Baratheon‘s, and all, but blood may be hard feelings, but still close. The Tyrells in the Martells marry, so that they don’t start trying to kill each other and to avoid marriage problems later on. And now that I think about it, you can actually after the Greyjoy rebellion have asha merry Edmure and Ned can also begin teaching Theon proper ways to govern, and when eventually Balon dies or not feel safe, sending him back, knowing he won’t betray them. You have someone who’s actually trained in helping the islands upgrade. It’s a hot political mess that would take Ned and Jon forever to figure out but I believe between the two of them they could do it.
I think wouldn’t expose Jon until Ned had fully secured his own power, and when Jon is of age and can actually sit the throne, I think Ned would make sure Robb is prepared to be heir to winterfell as to not get his hopes up for being king, he’d probably tell cat. Ned would also probably ally with other houses through marriage.
I think a slight variation to your timeline might also be worth exploring. What if Robert was wounded (or also killed) at the Trident while killing Rhaegar, and that provideds the reason for Ned to ascend the throne.
Then the Tywin would doubtless choose not to unleash the mountain on Ellia and children, thus removing that emnity between the starks and lanisters.
Please do a part 2 🙏🏽
Wow, this is actually really fascinating.
If Ned becomes King, then regent after Jon Snow/Aemon Targaryen reach majority, it might make things stable but the idea of Benjen’s Stark family being in Winterfall while Eddard is technically still its Lord.
The hypothetical conflict between Kings Landing’s Stark and Winterfell’s Stark is fascinating, would Benjen’s branch of Stark would want to have Winterfell if Benjen has ruled its castle while its actual ruler was living at Kings Landing.
Then after Aemon reach his majority, Eddard comes back to finally rule after years of being in the south, would the North see Ned & Robb as true northerners or just southerners since they lived in Kings Landing for years.
I’m curious if anyone made a fanfic based on this scenario, it’s interesting to think about.
You can't be king and then change to regent. Also, it's very unlikely for anyone to accept Jon Snow as a king, he was a bastard whether Lyanna married Rhaegar or not (because polygamy isn't accepted by the realm at all anymore, the last who tried had Balerion and had all the realm revolt up against him) the most likely course in this scenario with Ned as king is going to go like this.
Ned's base is strong enough to keep him as king for a while, however in order to keep his throne, he's first going to punish Gregor/Armory (Tywin's role in it is only rumored) and executed, Jaime gets kicked off the kingsguard, (Jon Arryn will convince him not to, though probably it'll come out why he did it) then he'll have Robb betrothed to Dany (who along with Vizzy T III and her mother are probably convinced to stay) while Vizzy is going to be made Prince of Summerhall (which he would rebuild) and betrothed to Sansa as soon as she is born, while Jon will end up having some castle given to him, and made a cadet branch. Robert would either marry Cersei, or a Hightower daughter and be Lord of the Stormlands and help secure Ned's rule, while Jaime would marry and have his own legitimate kids just like Cersei would have Robert's kids. Benjen marries a Northern girl and becomes Lord of Winterfell and has kids. While Robb is eventually made the Prince of Dragonstone.
As a result, the realm would be stable until the Greyjoy Rebellion, which is easily beaten again, then more stability. Now in a generation or two might be a rebellion, but that would most likely be easily beaten.
@@Aaron_Guest Actually if we see the show versione of the story as real the High Sept before marrying Lyanna to Rhaegar nullified Rhaegar marriage with Elia therefore it was all legit and no polygamy.
And to be fair I do think you misunderstood a point here... even if we do not consider what I said before polygamy was actually accepted. This is how it went: the faith militant was outraged that Aegon I both did poligamy and incest but Aegon was smart and wanting peace met them and agreed to term "the faith would drop the matter for Aegon life and SO ON IF there'd be no more INCEST". Aegon sweared and so was. Later when Aenys was king, the Faith started an uprising because Aenys wed his son Aegon to Rhaena (respectively Aenys' daughter and Aegon's sister). The problem you refer to in the first paragraph is actually no more a problem as the faith militant and some smaller lords rebelled due to the incest and not the polygamy (which still is not the problem in Jon Snow case). And so if we speak about Jon's time and case there is no problem at all as at this point of the storyline the incest between Targaryen is considered to be fine so there is at all no problem.
I looked on AO3, but this isn't a very popular fanfic scenario. There is a Tag 'Ned Stark Playing the Game of Thrones' with 8 fanfics, but all of them seem to be Ned going North to sneakily plan a Targaryen Restoration when "Jon" is old enough.
I mean, I'm sure someone has written it, but I haven't though of the right search terms to find it.
What if Sansa and Joffrey were married before Robert died?
Joffery would've continued to torment Sansa, and Margary would've married Tommen or Tyrion
i think in the book version of this griff gets the dragon eggs
The reason why Jon name is Aegon is because it was prophesized in House of the Dragon that the Prince that was Promise would be a Targaryen, and he would have the name of the conqueror. That is the reason why Targaryens names a lot of their kids "Aegon", in hopes that they might be the one. George does this thing where he makes more than one Aegon alive simultaneously, so we don't exactly know which one it is. If Jon isn't Aegon Targaryen, he is not the Prince that was promise, simple math.
Great video but you haven't considered Littlefinger and in his chaotic nature what he would try and do. He would still probably be Master Of Coin as Jon Arryn vouched for him in the original timeline. Possibly kill Ned in some sort of way as he wants to eventually be with Cat and consolidate more power, maybe poison? Blame it on another house and set them against each other to cause a war and in the chaos gain more power. Maybe Starks vs Lannisters or Starks vs Tyrells?
Another thing is that since Jon is the Azor Ahai figure and ISN'T at the wall a lot will change, plus since Benjen isn't a part of the Nights Watch as well. Bran isn't past the wall as well and doesn't break his legs, maybe Three Eyed Raven chooses someone else? Lots of Wildlings will die, Sam will die since Jon doesn't save him, Wildlings will never truce with the Nights Watch, and as you said eventually Night King wins. But perhaps you're right and lack of dragons avoid them passing the wall.
Brotherhood without Banners will never be formed, so a lot of Lord of the Light stuff if it does occur will go another way. Melisandre maybe doesn't go with Stannis since he's not going for the Throne.
Ned is a big believer of the Old Gods, does he try and change religion or conform to it in Kings Landing? Religion could be a big conflict among the people, especially Septons.
Jon continues to work perfectly for Jon; Jon Arryn or Jon Connington, whether its Ned or Rhaegar naming him, its fine.
I always believed that if Ned took the throne, he would punish the ones that deserve to be people like the Mountain and Tywin for example, and protect the ones that don't like Viserys and Dany, because unlike Robert he wouldn't hold kids responsible for the actions of others.
Also when part three with Maegor the bronze dragon.
Part 2 with Deamon keeps his crown.
And finally part 2 with Meakor Waters, because I have a idea, say let he does claim the Cannibal but he doesn't go back to the castle to show off he instead goes to rooks nest because if Aegon and Ameaond see the Cannibal a dragon that is said to be uncontrollable fighting against them, I can see Aegon turning and running, but Ameaond won't so it will be a two on one.
Also on a side note some say that the Cannibal is the same size or near to the size of the Balerion is that true, because I don't know how big he is.
I’m still all for making Viserys a ward of Stannis. As for Jon I could see Ned sending Jon to Winterfell to be raised by Benjen
Ned would likely be the King Regent for Viserys imo
So my thoughts are the dragons returning to fight in the long night has to happen like it's fate. The comet that came was not summoned by the dragons rather it's coming likely helped in some small way to have the dragons hatch. Books seem to lean on all the "Gods" are false and it's just primordial magic based on elements i.e. fire magic comes from Volcanoes etc.., so comets which burn as they go through the earths atmosphere would also likely empower fire based magic like hatching dragon eggs. Anyway I think certain things were pre destined to happen (meaning no mater what else changes certain things will always happen). A child of ice and fire, a bleeding star, dragons being awakened from stone.
Ned would've have personally taken both Gregor's and Tywin's heads with Ice or handed one or both of them to the Dornish as a show of empathy and act of proving that they would at least have their justice/vengeance against them, and knowing what had happened wouldn't go with punishment.
I think there would have been dragon eggs. Illyrio Mopatis would be Danaerys’s host and if she gets picked as Aemond’s Queen, he’d gift them to her just as he did in the original timeline. Would they hatch, though? They could certainly try, but I doubt the maesters of Oldtown would allow it.
There is also the rumoured dragon in Winterfell. Then it could be a race between Aemond, Danaerys and the Night King to claim it. We all know that dragons pick who gets to ride them so there’s no telling which would win out.
The only way I could see Ned taking the throne is if all three Baratheon brothers died in the war. If Robert simply abdicated Ned would support Stannis' claim, or Renly's if Stannis were dead.
Also if the Targaryen children's inheritance rights were recognized Viserys would come before Jon in the order of succession.
If Ned took the throne it would’ve come out that John’s actually Aegon and then there would’ve been a war between john and Rob for the succession
What if Robb Stark was fostered by Stannis and was with Stanis at the beginning of war of 5 kings?
The most relevant factor is he wouldn't be in the North to call the banners, so the North may be slower than any other army to engage the enemy. Even assuming the timeline of that is the same and he simply isn't with the Northhmen, the banners were called when Ned was taken, the Battle on the Green Fork soon after and the Whispering Wood shortly after his death, but Robb was foremost tactician for both.
Thanks For this! Love your content! Keep up the good work! Please do Rhaegar married Lyanna instead of Elia
Robert would never accept this. It would be bloody war
I would rather the Starks to be the royal family try to beat the Targaryen ruling record of 283 years and beyond and Robb stark being heir of the 7 kingdoms Jon can have dragon stone and marry Daenerys or some other girl
Exactly, why come up with a scenario, and then minutes into it, abandoning it.
It’s more simple than all this. Just name yourself (Ned) protector of the realm until John Targaryen became old enough to rule. The end, video over.
I love this story instead.... to be honest at the end of the series which is so ironic, the Starks are the only family line to win the throne.
Robert would be named master of war for a short time but after the Greyjoy rebellion he would give up the position posibly his lordship and move to the free cities and join a mercenary group so he can drink, whore, feast, and fight his way to an early grave.
If John became king of Westrose as a baby
Ned's best shot at sitting the throne imo is by Jon Arryn putting him there. He'd know Ned is a far more level headed leader and he's the only one who could convince Robert to give it up if he had his mind on it. Ned would have a lot of support from the other houses at this point imo
If Jamie gets sent to the wall, does that mean the wall finally gets the funds it needs?
So let's say Ned and Robert do have a falling out. Does Stannis side with Ned? I think so.
Maegor royce part three
Why would Ned use John over Viserys? Viserys was actually made Heir by the mad king after Rheagar’s death.
If Jamie was sentenced to take the black, his father could intercept him on the road and send him to Essos. Tywin would then prepare a plot to kill Ned, because a Lannister always pays his debts 🦁
People really overblow how terrible robert was as a king. Not doing any ruling is not that bad for a feudalist ruler, they could be making the realm actively a lot worse instead. His predecessor and heir are two very good examples
It should definitely be mentioned Neds main issue and opposition with being king would be his faith. He doesn't follow the faith of the seven which is the majority religion in westeros.
There was a lot you got wrong for one Tywin would love to be king, he became Jofrey's hand so he could act as de facto king. For two Ned doesn't have to discover Jon is a Targaryen he is already aware that's the secret he is protecting( in the show at least.)
For legitimatcy, He could reveal Jon Snow identity and become regent for the next 18 years.
the targaryen based their right to rule on having conquered westeros- so why shouldnt anyone do the same?
Tywin would absolutely have taken the iron throne if he had the claim to it, he didn't, so he decided to turn the king into a puppet and be the king in all but name.
I think Jon’s name should have been Jaehaerys, since it keeps the Initial.
If Ned would just make Jon heir for being a Targaryen, why didn’t he just sail Viserys back and have him rule?
male children before male siblings. It should go from Aerys to Rhaegar to Rhaegar's son
But Rhaegar was disinherited before he ascended the throne and Vicerys was made heir by Aerys so technically Jon wouldn't be the heir anyways@@fourth-dimensionalbeing9737
Following on from this: what if robert declined to take the iron throne and so stannis became king instead?
I have a few questions.
What if Brandon stark never rode South or his father?
What if Robert was killed at the battle of the bells or at Ashford by randyll tarly? With Robert dead would stannis surrender?
Plus aerys would still want Ned, hoster And Jon arrayn gone 🤔
I like this timeline 😅
I dont think Ned would make Jon heir even if he told his identity, mostly because it would piss the tullys off big time and Jon Arryn would probably talk him out of it. Especially since Ned will assume Jon is a bastard at first if not forever.
I think Ned would let it be known Jon is the rightful Targ claimant in this case, marry him to his first daughter then argue the legitimate Targaryen claim rests with House Stark if anyone tries stirring up Pro Viserys sentiments
Edit: Yeah I wrote this when he was discussing Viserys and Dany, so missed the Jon stuff.
Imma be honest, he'd be killed within a few months by someone trying to take the throne, the whole point of the story and the world is that good people don't usually rule for long as bleak and even edgy as that might be. Being a warden is one thing and he already had people moving to take that from the Starks already, honorable is grand as is merciful, but half the leaders that are talked about aren't that, even in reality.
Though would he start digging for the marriage proof? Sam was in the right place at the right time. I wonder from that there, Jon is still a Bastard though I bet Ned would allow him to be a true born.
I can't wait to see more Maegor Royce.
WHAT IF....
Myrcella had survived her being poisoned?
Viserys didn't marry anyone?
No he wouldn't, no one would even suspect that they married, and even if he somehow did find it, no one would accept Jon, as polygamy isn't allowed. Not to mention that after you are king, you can't just not be king.
Most likely Viserys is made Prince of Summerhall and married to Sansa, Dany betrothed to Robb to solidify House Stark's rule on the throne, while Jon would've became a kingsguard or something.
What if Jon Arryn lived? I know it’s impossible but it would be most likely he lived a bit longer.
Why come up with a cool scenario but then immediately abandon it???? Especially since abdication doesn't exist in ASOIAF, and no one would accept Jon as any legitimate Targaryen because polygamy doesn't exist, (even the Northmen wouldn't they would've been enraged that Lyanna simply chose to run away and be a "harlot" for a married prince) and marriages can't be annulled once kids have been made in it.(Also, Ned would never even slightly suspect that Lyanna and Rhaegar had married anyway, even if he thought she ran
How bout this instead...
Ned claims the throne at the Sack, (be it through ambition or lets say that the Pact of Ice and Fire was successfully filled long ago and he has some Targaryen blood in him, or rebel lords push for him to be king when Robert declines or various reasons) he'd immediately execute Gregor and Amory, while kicking Jaime out of the Kingsguard. (Tywin was only rumored to order it, while it would've beyond foolish for Ned to send him to the Nights Watch because it's basically the same as killing him and on Arryn would convince him out of it easily maybe a trial happens and the wildfire plot is proven even and Jaime is proclaimed a hero)
Before arranging for Viserys and Dany to come back under the condition that Daenerys would marry Robb and be queen, while Viserys would be made the Prince of Summerhall (Dragonstone is the seat of the heir of the throne and would be too risky to grant to Viserys, if Ned thought of it, Jon Arryn would immediately convince him against it and) and betrothed to the first daughter of Ned, (It's even possible that Rhaella survives as she'd be under less stress because negotiations would've been under way and with Ned handling the murderers of her grandkids and daughter-in-law) before he went off to get Lyanna and finds Jon. Jon is then known publicly as the bastard child of Rhaegar and Lyanna though he's probably known as Aemon here though, because again no one would even suspect that the two were married (in the show) and even if they did, polygamy is no longer allowed, and no one would've supported him anyway. After he'd get back, he'd officially be coronated and Robb would become the Prince of Dragonstone.
Though I'll say that Ned is knighted by Ser Brynden Tully to appease the southerners. (He won't convert nor will his family, however he will be knighted, and Robb too in the future)
Then the marriages after it would've gone as follows. Cersei married to Robert who is the Lord of the Stormlands now, (most likely a few years after the war, and she most likely has his legit kids with her being away from Jaime) Edmure likely is set up to marry a Hightower, (there is far more reason to help keep peace in the country with Cat as Queen, I'll say he marries Leyla Hightower) Jaime also likely marries a Hightower, (Tywin had sent an offer for Tyrion to marry one but it was rebuffed, but with Jaime I doubt it would be) while Benjen who now is made Lord of Winterfell and Warden of the North would marry a Northern girl, I'll say probably Jonelle Cerwyn. (I'd say she makes the most sense)
While Ned's reign would be far more capable than Robert's. His small council would consists of Jon Arryn as hand, Pycelle Grand Maester, (maybe not long though) Master of Ships Wyman Manderly, Master of Coin probably Kevan Lannister, (Baelish would never rise high as a result) Master of Laws probably Hoster Tully, (it's possible he doesn't get sick like in canon now) Master of Whispers Varys. (going with the thought that he told Ned where to find Lyanna, if not probably Roose Bolton instead) While the Gold Cloaks commander would either be Mors Crowfood, or Hother Whoresbane Umber.
While his kingsguard would have Ser Barristan Selmy (Lord Commander) Ser Brynden Tully, (great option for Ned) Ser Lynn Corbray, (great fighter and wields Lady Forlorn) Ser Marlon Manderly, (he was tall and stout it's highly likely that he earned his knighthood fighting in the rebellion and he leads a garrison in White Harbor so he is likely very competent) Ser Mandon Moore (he was recommended by Jon Arryn and Jaime even calls him one of the most dangerous men of the kingsguard) probably one of Greatjon's brother's, (mot likely would've been just as strong and skilled as he was) along with probably Willem Darry as a compromise to help appease ethe Targaryens so they'd have another person that will protect them unquestionably. (or maybe instead Ser Balon Swann ends up joining the kingsguard afterall it is a way to help appease the Stormlords)
When the Greyjoy Rebellion happened it ends just as fast as in canon, however now Balon will lose his head, (this level of treason won't be allowed to simply pass by Ned like Robert allowed it to) and Theon is still brought back to King's Landing and befriends Robb still. Ned putting this down would essentially cement his rule as it did Robert's.
Now eventually, there may be some unrest or maybe even a small Faith Rebellion during Ned/possibly Robb's rule later on, however it's likely that with most of Ned's rule being prosperous many of the smallfolk and lords end up converting to the Old Gods or sort of not caring about it. (Especially since the Faith is much weaker now than it was during Maegor for example)
Once the White Walkers did invade, they'd be sufficiently beaten relatively easy, as the realm would be united and undamaged from any wars, and would've been led by great generals. Though I'll also say that it is still possible that Dany still manages to hatch the dragons, they'd just have different names. As there are other ways that she can hatch them, and it's possible that she gets them eventually. I'll also say that Jon (Aemon) becomes a kingsguard in this scenario.
The wisest thing for Ned to do is to look for a way to put Jon Snow on the throne.
King Jon would 100% marry a Frey lol
Suppose the issue is religion and precedent. If someone not of royal blood can take the throne because they are powerful then it opens the door for everyone else. Especially as they would be ruled by someone of a minority old gods worshiper vs majority faith of the seven. While ned isn't super religious he seems to be at least steadfast in his fait to change, though maybe he'd let rob be brought up in the faith if the seven. So being regent makes the most sense. Suppose the main issue could be Viserys as he could obtain a proper education as he wouldn't be a begger king and so might be in a position to the main symbol of resistance to Jon/Aemond as these those who would consider Jon a bastard as many might not consider his parents marriage as legal. Especially as Dorne may still wish for more revenge and the tyrells advantage
Do we actually know what happened to the Cannibal? What if he's actually alive and just waiting for the right rider.
What if the Targaryens never lost their dragons and used them during the fight against the night king?
I think the best move regarding both keeping Tywin happy and also giving the Martells justice is to either personally execute Lorch and Gregor and send their heads to Dorne, or to just straight up give them to Doran and Oberyn, whichever one they prefer.
Then on the flipside for cooperating and handing them over, Tywin gets Jaime back as his heir by relieving him from the Kingsguard and possibly also giving him the position of Master of Coin so he still stays influential.
That way, Tywin gets something even better than marrying into the royal line in his eyes, which is ofc the continuation of his legacy through Jaime, and he gets to keep having a significant presence in King's Landing as one of the most powerful people in Westeros.
What if daemon and caraxes lived part 1
I don’t understand why Ned hates Jaime so much for killing the mad king. They were fighting a rebellion against the insane king and Jaime saved the city from burning. Does Ned not know this or not care?
10:40 'these are kids well at least one of them is" then the ages are 9 and infant.
Are you saying one is a kid and one is a baby?
Or
On is grown and one is a kid?
Because to me they're both kids no matter how you spin it.
He would not marry Catelyn but rather Ashara Dawne, or Tywin would pawn Cercei to him
He wasn't ambitious enough to take it and not smart enough to keep it. If Robert was alive at the end of the war he's not going to let Ned take it without war and the only way he wins that is Tywin who's not going to come cheap
Robert got the throne because he declared war against the current throne holders and won
what if Rhaenyra and Aegon were good siblings and liked each other
He wouldn't have made it to GoT. Targ loyalists would've easily rebounded and rebelled against Ned the nanosecond he passed up the Targ purges. Lets not mention how outmaneuvered he would be at the mercy of players like Varys and Tywin.(whose loyalty to Robert was only kept with his marriage to Cersei)
The Reach, The Westerlands, Dorne, Iron Islands prolly...hell, even Roose Bolton wouldve had a great opportunity to stab Ned in the back and split off a large of the North against him. Without purging the Targaryans, Ned would be seen by half of Westeros as nothing more than a usurper sitting in young Aegon's throne.
what if the seven kingdoms split after robert's rebellion? It should’ve happened really ngl
What if Jaehaerys passes before the Great Council is called?
Vizzy still takes the throne, or Rhaenys/Corlys attempt to seize power, but end up getting murked by Daemon, (Laenor/Laena are both dragonless and babies they aren't a threat, while Caraxes was already battle proven) so, Corlys and Rhaenys are dead, while Laena/Laenor are taken hostage and most likely aren't ever allowed near dragons, Rhaenyra probably is then immediately betrothed to Laenor though, (Driftmark and the Velayron fleet would be powerful, and they have claims) Daemon probably is able to divorce Rhea Royce and would be betrothed to Laena.
However, when Aemma dies and Viserys marries Alicent, the question of succession is never in doubt the proved women couldn't inherit, so Aegon would be acknowledged as heir by Viserys, and would inherit the throne peacefully.
@@Aaron_Guest I'm too sure the power differential is too high as to getting 'murked' that fast; Meleys was said to have stood a chance against Vhagar alone if it wasn't for the 1 vs 2 at Rook's Rest (and even then she effectively almost killed Sunfyre/Aegon while holding off the largest dragon in present day). I've always thought Meleys vs Ceraxes would be a close fight. In the books Meleys was likewise said to be 'battle-tested', but this is an interesting point of discussion as there was no conflict explicitly mentioning Meleys participation, so not sure this was a retcon from GRRM or if she truly was implied to be in some conflict (e.g perhaps during the stepstones?).
Laenor claims Seasmoke at the age of 7 (during the Great Council), although it was mentioned he didn't ride him yet. Could a conflict push Corlys to get the young child to ride? Not sure, on the one hand I'd say way too young but on the otherhand Lucerys had a much smaller dragon and was riding at the age of 13 when he got chomped. GRRM also has a habit of making incredibly young children do mature things so alas.
I've always thought the Blues vs the Blacks would be a much more interesting Dance IMO; either before the council if Jaehaerys would pass or sometime in the future when both factions secure more dragonriders.
@@RedMeleys -I'm too sure the power differential is too high as to getting 'murked' that fast; Meleys was said to have stood a chance against Vhagar alone if it wasn't for the 1 vs 2 at Rook's Rest (and even then she effectively almost killed Sunfyre/Aegon while holding off the largest dragon in present day). I've always thought Meleys vs Ceraxes would be a close fight. In the books Meleys was likewise said to be 'battle-tested', but this is an interesting point of discussion as there was no conflict explicitly mentioning Meleys participation, so not sure this was a retcon from GRRM or if she truly was implied to be in some conflict (e.g perhaps during the stepstones?).
That quote seems massively overly inflated and misused, it's stated that Vhagar was the strongest dragon and Caraxes the second in the Dance, it would be massively illogical for her to be able to take down Vhagar. Meleys also was never said to be "battle tested" in the book , that was only in the show where it also makes no sense for it to happen.
-Laenor claims Seasmoke at the age of 7 (during the Great Council), although it was mentioned he didn't ride him yet. Could a conflict push Corlys to get the young child to ride? Not sure, on the one hand I'd say way too young but on the otherhand Lucerys had a much smaller dragon and was riding at the age of 13 when he got chomped. GRRM also has a habit of making incredibly young children do mature things so alas.
If they tried to hold off longer, than they wouldn't have been able to have any support. While, it also would've given time for the lords to acclimate to his rule, while if they did, than Rhaenyra would've been around for her father as well and Seasmoke would've essentially been checked by Syrax, or more Viserys and the royals would've managed to be evacuated from the capitol, meaning Viserys escapes to Dragonstone, where he claims Vermithor and shuts it down (he did have Balerion, however given the evidence form the book where both Aegon and Rhaenyra expected to hatch more dragons, and script in the show where Daemon asked Viserys to tame a dragon with him again, then he'd be able to easily claim Vermithor especially since Hugh could do it) along with Daemon.
-I've always thought the Blues vs the Blacks would be a much more interesting Dance IMO; either before the council if Jaehaerys would pass or sometime in the future when both factions secure more dragonriders.
The Dance should've either been Aegon and the Greens vs. Daemon, Daemon vs. Rhaenyra, (with no greens as they don't exist) or a three-way civil war with the Greens, Blacks, (have Rhaenyra married to Harwin or a Lannister) and Daemon (say he has more kids with Laena) all fighting it out. The way it is in canon really makes no since, as no medieval king wouldn't have acknowledged Aegon as their heir, and in a more realistic scenario, no one would support Rhaenyra against Aegon especially given the setup of how GRRM established Westeros, with Rhaenys' line getting voted out by like 20 to 1.
I think Ned would send Robert to get the mountain because god's he was strong then
Robert barathons brother stannis Barthon would be the king of the Seven Kingdom if Robert Barthon wouldent chosse to be King.
What if rhaenyra was crowned in kings landing before Aegon ?
What if Aegon Claimed Vhagar
Ned is neutral about the Targaryans? They burned his father and oldest brother alive .... I think, altho not as much as robert, Eddard Stark most definetly carried hate for the Dragons
What if Stannis was Robert's Hand?
love it.
Ned probably would want to put Jaime under trial before sentencing him, this could lead to Jaime revealing that Aerys wanted to burn the city, a quick investigation would reveal the wildfire, after that revelation Arryn could easily convince Ned that the best punishment would be to free Jaime of his vows, that would make Tywin gratefull and more willingly to handle Clegano and Lorch to the Martells.
The main problem to Ned's rule would be the Septons, Ned is a pagan in their eyes, a non follower sitting in the Iron Throne would be considered blasphemy and they would demand Ned to convert before becoming King. The best solution for this problem would be to declare Robb the King with him as Regent, engage him to Dany and raise him at King's Landing in the Faith with his second son becoming the Heir of Winterfell.
Lil finger gonna still play the game, so i think Ned is still gonna die
What if after the rebellion, Robert pardoned Jaime, but instead of remaining on the kingsguard sent him into exile for 10 years?
What if Daemon was Rhaenyra’s father?
(Daemon’s Harrenhal vision with his mother was a contortion of a memory with Aemma when he was young, around the time she fell pregnant with Rhaenyra.)
Maegor Royce? Part 3?