Game of Thrones PERFECTED Robert Baratheon In One Scene
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ย. 2024
- In one single scene, Game of Thrones perfectly displays why Robert Baratheon is oblivious, negligent, and flat out delusional. But they also capture that Robert is 100% right about at least one thing and before the end of this video we’ll definitely touch on that.
So this is King Robert. This is Quenn Cersei. And well this is Dan Benioff and DB Weiss. Look, they wrote this episode, they wrote this scene, adn I know a lot of people are not huge fans in how they handled the last half of Game of Thrones, but since I’m going to be praising this scene they wrote - I think it is important to recognize that at one point, they really did get it. This is not from the books, this scene is 100% original to the show Game of Thrones.
#asoiaf #gameofthrones #robertbaratheon #cersei #cerseilannister #georgerrmartin
There’s at least 50 comments about the music. I can’t remove it, but definitely more critical with the music moving forward.
Why not?? Smh.
ironic because Llyanna more than likely didn't love Robert either.
Rhaegar just looks like Micheal Sera with fight training, i seen Scott pilgrim, i can imagine that. with the long hair behind him he would look so cool.
@@hawk66100why not, what?
@@DCharles Why can’t you get rid of the music? It’s really annoying when people upload clips from a show or movie and feel the need to change or add music to it.
"Robert was neither mad nor cruel, he simply had no interest in being King." - Lord Varys
Robert should have been Minister of War or some such.
@@SamBrickellHonestly if Jon Arryn’s heir, Denys Arryn had just survived then Jon Arryn would have been a very tempting choice. Even then however Robert would still have been the favourite pick for kingship at the time. Since he had some (albeit distant) Targaryen blood, towering at around 6 and a half feet tall, the young and handsome Lord paramount just made more sense at the time.
Ironically, that's the same as D&D's problem : An early success spiraled into a long career that they really had no interest in doing properly.
@@tiringsarcasmRobert Blood as a claim is nonsense. He took the kingdom by conquest not as a Targaryen
All Robert should've been was lord of Storm's End @@SamBrickell
Robert was in love with the idea of Lyanna Stark. He believes she would have made him a better man, without ever really knowing her.
Sansa most obviously, but also Robb and Jon all have the childlike fantasies of chivalry and heroism which motivates them when they're first starting to take actions as young adults.
Robert may have been the same, he wanted to be the brave heroic Knight who saves his Princess from the evil Prince and lives happily ever after. He defeats the evil King and the Prince but his Princess dies, that missing piece of that fantasy gets stuck in his mind and causes him a lot of grief, which he tries to overwhelm with food and women and fighting.
He didn't rebel to be King, or even to overthrow the Targaryens, he rebelled to save his betrothed Lyanna, and importantly to help his chosen brother Ned (which might be part of the reason why he wanted to marry Lyanna,) and in a way lost the war because he didn't get her, and instead got stuck with all this unwanted responsibility.
I hope everyone understands that Lyanna would've hopped a ship to Essos to avoid marrying Robert.
I wonder what lyanna looked like. Must have been gorgeous to spark a revolution and also catch the prince's attention in the first place.
@@CognizantCheddarcan't really blame her
@@CognizantCheddarI wouldn't go that far. She'd have hated Robert, but "done her duty", despite the cost
People forget that the Robert we see in season 1 is a shell of himself. He’s been depressed and drinking himself into oblivion for nearly two decades, and he simply doesn’t care enough to stop it or right his wrongs. But sometimes the old Robert shines through. The smart Robert. The sharp Robert. The dangerous Robert. The mighty warrior and cunning general Robert.
In this scene he explains to Cersei in 30 seconds why Dany and the Dothraki are so dangerous, and such a real threat to his reign and Westeros at large. He’s already figured out the politics, logistics, campaign tactics, and battlefield strategies of the whole war YEARS before it potentially even starts.
In his head Targayans would be the only one with a rightful claim...if He called his banners he had the North, Stannis, and Renly...he overestimated how stupid the Lannisters would be to start a war with everyone
I like to think that he figured the strategic and tactical side of this wat but not the political and economical.
He can lead an army the whole day and win any battle but alowing your realm to get into a debt like that in the name of tournaments ( not even war preparation) and giving all that much power to the lannisters while alienating the reach and dorne was poor choices that would have bitten him in the ass if a targaryan invasion happened in his life time
Charles: "Robort was a deluded, warhawking egomaniac"
The Music: 😊🌈🙂↔️🎶🕊️🐣🥰
Hahaaaah, nailed it!
New favorite comment ever
If he called his banners he would have Stannis Ned Renly all on his side...he just was too drunk to realize his wife would plot against him and his kids wasn't his
Indeed. Conversation goes about Robert Baratheon, an absolute unit in his prime, yet music fits Chocobo's theme from Final Fantasy.
A warrior does not fear a quick death on the field. But a slow one in the bed.
Robert baratheon was depressed and bored. So he engaged in self destruction. It happens to everyone that feels more alive in war than they do in peace.
Not necessarily it happens to those without the self discipline to self sacrifice for job they may not enjoy There are plenty of great men throughout history who have felt more at home in war than at peace but they were able to understand that there was a job that needed to be done and that they were the man to do it and so they suffered in silence
And the opposite is true as well several of history's greatest war leaders have been men who had no taste for war Abraham Lincoln and Frederick the Great were inherently men of peace what ended up leading their nation's greatly during times of war Heck Abraham Lincoln was miserable throughout the Civil War and he despised having to do the job But he refused to put his own happiness and his own preferences before the good of the nation that he was now in charge in
Fredrick the Great all but started the War of the Austrian succession by invading Silesia.
Robert is a man who has one purpose, to be a soldier and to wage war. He's not a king or a lord. He is bored and aimless because he isn't living out his purpose. Robert. If he had any real sense, should've given Stannis or Ned Stark the thrown and gone off to be a mercenary in the far east. He would've been an infinitely happier man. Just look at his reaction to Greyjoy's Rebellion. Man was smiling at the thought of going on one more campaign. Robert should've built himself a small private army and enjoyed the wine and women of Essos as he waged bloody war after bloody war, leaving the Iron throne to a real king.
You just explained my own issues wow
@@yami122 It is shown that PTSD makes veterans crave to be back in war to feel alive again. That's also why veterans due life risking things, like flying down the highway on motorcycles and etc. It isn't due to a lack of self discipline but trauma. For Robert I say it was more of him being stuck in the past and a bit of trauma. During his kingship he was clearly either reminiscing or day dreaming of what could have been in his head. The other is self destructive habits that gained him short term pleasures.
@@Guardsman-sy8qm I don't agree. He's unhappy and depressed for a multitude of things. One being the death of Lyanna. I also think he suffered from some PTSD.
This has always been one of my favourite scenes of the entire series. Cersei, asking Robert about Lyanna in his moment is quite possibly the most honest conversation they've ever had. And she had most likely decided Robert was going to die and soon. And her asking was curiosity plain and simple. She wanted to have an answer to something that has literally haunted their marriage and to leave no unfinished business between them. She had to know, before she could never know.
When I go back and rewatch, I skip over much and land on favorite scenes. This is definitely one of them.
Robert hitting her and then finding out he never loved her at all were what sealed his fate.
"I know I ripped out and mutilated all of his legitimate children but I need to make absolutely certain that he doesn't love me."
It's not in the books either and it's a scene added by D&D.
If Robert Baratheon ever found out there was undead army over the wall. He probably would have been the first one marching to them.
The man loved war.
Gods the writing was strong back then
They just got tired of doing it. In the end it was a slog for them, the passion ran out and it's obvious. I mean Martin and HBO begged them to do a few more seasons to fully flesh things out.
@@Hezigrimm I agree. This scene is completely absent from the books and it's one of the best in the series. I think a big problem is that D&D took on the task of writing the vast majority of episodes by themselves which is atypical. That's manageable when you're adapting but when you have to continue writing the overall story yourselves then they should have brought in more people to help. Probably got burnt out and just wanted to finish it. They started working on it in 2007 so for them, it was *12 years* of work when the show finished.
It definitely doesn't help that George bailed to write 5 pages of Winds Of Winter. lol
😂😂😂
Best comment
Roberts Reign in a Nutshell:
"Im Done now You clean up the fucking mess"
Yup he told ned the truth lol u run it while I eat, drink and fuck myself into an early grave lol
What Jaime told Ned about his “Hand” title.
“The King shit, while the Hand wipes”.
@@woodyhorton8537horrid king
@@OreoOreoCookie234 For sure he didn't have a clue or care what was going on in the kingdoms or his council. As long as he could drink, eat and fuck everything was great to him
@@cobra8888 A very true statement!
I think for Cersei, this is less about Robert and more about Rhaegar. She still thinks about Rhaegar decades later, and she was denied as a marriage prospect for Rhaegar while he ran off with Lyanna.
Well she was denied Rhaegar for Elia, which was fitting since The Lannisters denied Jaime to Elia and offered Tyrion instead as an insult. If I’m recalling it all correctly
@@DCharles yes, that is correct. But ultimately he ran off with Lyanna while Elia was pregnant. Cersei is so full of herself, I could imagine she would wonder why Rhaegar wouldn’t do the same for her. Then Robert kills Rhaegar and marries Cersei, but never has any feelings of fondness for her, over the same woman that Rhaegar ran off with. That’s gotta be a kick in the balls Cersei thinks she should have had.
Oh definitely... In fact, there's a bit of foreshadowing at Sansa's first chapter after Robert's death, where she notices Cersei's mourning clothes: "a high-collared black silk gown, with a hundred dark red rubies sewn into her bodice, covering her from neck to bosom. They were cut in the shape of teardrops, as if the queen were weeping blood." Black and Red are colours of House Targaryen and the rubies are a reference to Rhaegar's armour Robert smashed out when he killed him with his hammer.
So, not only was Cersei mourning after Rhaegar, she was also revelling on Robert's death by wearing the same colours of the man that the latter hated the most as a way to rub in his death and non-verbally flaunt her own victory over Robert!!!!!
Okay, thank you. I was seriously confused, because the whole bloody war was because Rhaegar passed by Elia--his WIFE with TWO KIDS--and gave the wreath or favor (whatever) to Lyanna.
I thought this whole time that the prince that Cersei was to have was Viserys. @@DCharles
Rhaegar + lyanna being in love isnt cannon
1. Something I always thought was fitting was that both Robert and Cersei are in love with "ghosts".
Robert loved his idealised version of Lyanna, even though he barely knew her, while Cersei never quite got over the fact that she never got to marry Prince Rhaegar, but rather *the man who killed him.*
2. Robert is basically the fantasy hero that killed his dragon (Rhaegar) , but failed to get the girl (Lyanna) and the grief ate him alive, except he wasn't granted the mercy of the credits rolling, instead his descent is slow and painfull. Instead of dealing with it, he just threw himself into hedonism which only temporarily buried the pain. Which made him willfully blind to the accumulating problems his way of ruling was creating.
3. Its actually a fan theory that Robert was HOPING for a war to make himself feel alive again and I can understand why.
Him not anihilating the Greyjoys after their rebellion and instead both sparing Balon and letting him continue to rule the Iron Islands as a vassal of the Crown, combined with the fact that he was *always* anticipating an attack from the remaining Targeryans tells me that he was constantly on the lookout for another war to fight. Preferably one he could actually win though.
Well written
It's kinda sadder in the book. He hosted an exiled Summer Island prince (Jalabar Xho) for years, who continuously beg him for military support. Cersei thinks he kept the prince around coz he fantasize sailing away to some foreign land to wage war but never pushed through. He just trying to keep fantasy alive, just like how try to hold on to Lyanna. He probably feel so dead inside.
Robert being in love with a ghost has to be one of the biggest memes out there.
Wait a second...Rhaegar married Eliana (or whatever) Martel, he wasn't betrothed to Cersei. I think she might have been promised to Viserys. The entire war started over Rhaegar "choosing" Lyanna, but he had two kids with Elia Martel that the Mountain murdered. So Cersei had to be talking about a different prince.
Can you imagine, Cersei and Viserys together?? ha ha ha
Yeah except Cersei admitted she got over The crush she had on Rhaegar, when she met Robert, and was happy to marry him, because not only was he The new king, but he was a handsome hero. Yet he neglecting her to go drinking and whoring Their whole married, and because of that Cersei slowly lost The respect and admiration, she once had for him, and as The years went by and Robert became The ugly fat drunk everyone would know him as, and because of that Cersei attraction for him would disappeard, all because of his lack of dignity and discipline as well as his lack care and affection for his wife.
I once read a fanfic that might have been game of thrones i don't remember but the main character before going of to war looked at his family very intently trieing to memorise all their features. And thats when i realised something i had never really thought about and that is that before cameras or a lack of highy skilled painters lots of people would actually forget the faces of loved ones after not having seen them in a while. And that to me (even though roberts love with lyanna never really was a thing) makes it a very powerful scene.
Yeah I think that’s at play a bit here too, but I also think it’s difficult to remember someone you don’t truly know.
No offense, but this is bs. People can remember faces of old friends or relatives for years without ever seeing pictures of them. Forgeting how a loved looks like before the invention of cameras is not a real thing, and I have never saw any evidence of something so dumb and silly to have ever happened.
@@AndreLuis-gw5oxi think they mean forgetting as in not being able to recall their exact features from memory, not failing to recognizing them. Which is entirely possible, in fact happens quite often.
@@AndreLuis-gw5ox The older you get the less detailed your memories become. You don't necessarily fully forget things beyond recognition but it isn't a true detailed copy of events.
@@Hezigrimm I don't know how perfect recall works since I don't have it, but I feel that memories become stories we tell ourselves repeatedly over time in cycles. And at each iteration, it's a story based on the previous one, so it progressively erodes and changes over time compared to the original moment the original memory is associated with. There's also the physical component of our cells dying out over time and being replaced and the process becoming more flawed the older we get.
Cersei was right. Their marriage did hold the realm together, along with Robert’s lack of knowledge of the incest. He died, ending their marriage, and all hell broke loose.
No Robert held the king Dom together. If he found out about the incest he go to war and still win.
@@az21bob666dis is da most smart est comet
@@az21bob666the pig caused the game of thrones by taking him out.
the marriage was the fulcrum holding the realm in a teetering balance. half the realm was loyal to Robert, and the Lannisters were powerful on their own due to wealth. Marriages we pacts of loyalty interwoven between the houses of westeros, and continuing it helped keep old alliances together. no one could challenge the lannisters individually, let alone while joined to the baratheons while they were joined by the crown and marriage. the Vale was tied to Robert by Jon Ayron as hand. the Vale, river lands, and the north were tied by marriages. Ned and Robert were old friends united by the war. the only wild cards were the southern kingdoms, one who wanted to be left alone, and one who was aspiring to "grow strong".
no one was loyal to the lannister everone hated them if robert call war every house woudl have join and and crush the lannisters,
the north would have join and follow ned the vale as well, the river lands, the tyell would happy join and dorn would do jump jacks to kill tywin,
think about it when the kind doom felll apart not one house join lannister
I personally think that deep down he knew that Lyanna chose Rhaegar. He saw her cry while listening to Rhaegar sing at Harrenhal, he saw the spark between them, he saw her reaction when Rhaegar picked her at the tourney. I think he WANTED to believe that Rhaegar stole her because it was too painful to accept that Lyanna did not want to marry him. I also think that if Robert actually believed that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna, then he would have waited to kill him until after he forced Rhaegar to divulge where he was keeping her. But he didn’t…he killed Rhaegar swiftly in a rage of jealousy…not in a “seeking justice” sort of way like you’d expect from a man who’s beloved had been taken from him.
Shit, you're right. He didn't even mention questioning Rhaegar. As far as they knew, he was the only one who knew where she was. Also, Rhaegar's last word was Lyanna. Robert must have known for sure then.
Which begs the question: how the hell did Edward know where Lyanna was? And why didn't Robert go with him?
Man, I've been studying this series for sixteen years and I haven't had anything new to ponder since after Dance was published. Thank you for this.
@@jessjess23brooks89 It was the worst kept secret in Westeros.
The Tower of Joy is not exactly secluded. It's right in view of a busy road. Suddenly it was guarded by three white cloaks and manned by all the servants that they, a Targaryen prince and a noble host needed, and anyone passing by knew about the abduction.
@@neutronalchemist3241 Yeah, you're probably right about that. Arthur Dayne randomly guarding a tower would probably generate buzz lol.
I'm looking more at this situation and just looking at it more sideways. Why just send a few men against the Sword of the Morning? You'd think Robert would send a bigger group. Or at least some renowned fighters. It feels like Ned gathered the only men who dared go with him.
I don't know if I'm being paranoid and reading too much into things or if there are really more layers to this.
@@jessjess23brooks89 I always considered that a huge plot hole.
Already like that, 7 vs. 3, they barely made it.
What if, other than the three white cloaks, there was even only a pair of regular guards? With crossbows maybe? The odds would have shifted.
it was excessively risky even if Ned had perfectly known there were only the three Kingsguards (and Ned is not the reckless kind), and Ned should have had no way to know there were only them.
So it was arranged in some manner? But 5 of Ned's closest friends died for real.
Robert was too wounded from the fight, he sent Ned to get him.@@jessjess23brooks89
I think Robert secretly wanted a war, which is why he fixated on the idea of one. It's his bread and butter, he knows it and loves doing it, much more than being King. It's an excellent escape for him
Westeros’ Edward IV
Why would robert want to assassinate Dany then?
@@13EqualsB if the attempt fails then it stokes the temper of herself, her family and the Dothraki and increases the likelihood of war and it it succeeds it does the same thing x100
Robert knew how to fight, drink and screw. being a king and ruling was too tedious and as king, no one could really tell him no. and no one could or would help him to get over his "loss" of Lyanna. i think the death of his first child with Cersei broke whatever was left of his soul.
@@nicodemus7784 It all went to hell once Jon Arryn was offed.
He wasn’t delusional, he was disillusioned. “Winning a throne is easier than sitting on one”. He was a soldier, not a statesman or politician. Not loving his wife and hating his job he took to drink and whoring.
He firmly believed he knew Lyanna well enough to be in love with her. That's a delusion.
@@JC-gn7lq Who’s to say he didn’t know her well? Robert and Nedard were like brothers. But I think you’re right since she fell for a Targaryen. I meant more along the lines of why he changed so much Ned barely recognized him in body and spirit since taking a wife and throne.
@@LisaG442 "Nedard" indeed was his one true love ❤
@@LisaG442Ned himself even remarks at Robert that he didn't even know her
@@ok.4720 you’re right, I forgot they were both fostered at the Eyrie and Lyanna would barely know her own brother let alone Robert
It's wrong to assume that every scene not in the books was written by David and Dan, at least for the first 4 seasons. George was literally a writer on the show, and coincidentally ever since he stopped being a writer the show stopped having scenes like this. My theory is that George wrote these scenes for the show, or at least played a large role in producing them.
Exactly!
A lot of scenes are just using the books as a script.
Maybe, but Cersei in the books is an idiot bitch while this scene shows a very romantic and humanized Cersei.
He specifically wrote one episode per season and this wasn’t one of them, it was D&D. This is just a pill that has to be swallowed.
@@owlcircus6811 George written episodes tend to stick to the books rather than making up new scenes like this.
I look for mirrored similarities in GOT in the books. I always thought King Robert had feelings for Lyanna like LittleFinger felt towards Kat/Sansa. Everyone is in love with the idea of everyone else
Exactly
You want to know know the horrible. I can't remember what she looked like. I only remember she was the one thing i ever wanted. Someone took her away from me and seven kingdoms couldn't fill the hole she left behind
Robert Baratheon
@@PointlessRhetoric he called her a thing. Not a person.
It also paralells so well with Maser Aemon saying he can still see "her" face when talking about a girl he loved once. A blind man over a hundret years old still remembers what the woman he loved looked like, Robert does not. And Robert is still hung up about Lyanna but Aemon has his peace.
Reading the books, I just wanted to slap Robert and tell him to STFU every time he pined for Lyanna. He didn't even know her. He saw her a few times and thought she was hot. He certainly didn't love her, he just wanted to make babies with someone hot.
@@TemariNaraannaschatz"I can see her right in front of me. She's more real than you are."
@@lesliemcmillan2971 I mean given how stupid she was causing the whole war, the death of her immediate family, and the deaths of thousands and thousands of normal people can we really describe human intelligence to her also, she is a thing because she’s literally a corpse
I think Robert and Cersei’s marriage is absolutely all that’s holding the seven kingdoms together during his reign. Tywin would never be content to leave the country at peace if he didn’t have a direct line, even a potentially far away one, to control the kingdoms
Yeah. No way Robert would have been able to get on the throne without Tywin, but Tywin couldn't put himself at the top, he just didn't have the political backing that Robert had. Their marriage was a compromise between two types of power.
100%. Robert on the throne means the Stormlands, North, Eyrie and Riverrun (by marriage) are all loyal.
The Lannisters having heirs to the throne keeps them loyal (and by proxy The Reach and Oldtown)
That's kind of the point of the War of the Five Kings: if Joffrey isn't Robert's son then why should those four kingdoms remain loyal? Obviously there was more to it but even just that alone probably would have been enough to tip the kingdoms into war, which is why Jon Arryn had to die.
@@michaelahurt without Jon Arryn, there was nothing to keep Robert in check, which created the instability that little finger wanted. Jon revealing the secret of Cersei would have sent Robert off the deep end and meant war with the lannisters. but that isnt enough chaos to make the ladder that little finger wanted to climb by itself. he needed the Eryie to stay out of it, he needed Ned to be predictably stupid. and Cersei eliminating Robert first just blasted everything into orbit with the stage set for conflict.
Robert could have put himself on the throne because tywin had just burned his bridges with the targaryens.
Had Robert not married cersei well its not as if tywin can now back viserys
Even if viserys did not give a fuck about his murdered family he would have to pretend otherwise or lose any respect his allies might have for him
Jon Arryn should have convinced Ned to be Master of Laws. Jon, Ned and Stannis working together would have made Westeros a super power
I was gonna say that it wouldn’t work because Ned wouldn’t last in the hive of scum and villainy…
But then Stannis the Mannis is part of it, and all was all right in the world.
Robert Baratheon is a Warlord. He is wasted in peace but War - that's where he flourished. If he were alive when Danaerys arrived, when the Others were marching, that would have been something.
I don’t see how that makes him delusional when he was never told. Ned uses his love for Lyanna to convince him to do things. The implication being that it was mutual and he didn’t know. In the books, Cersei mentioned that Robert was always trying to get her to hunt with him and how much he loved riding horses (like Lyanna). He probably just wanted a tomboyish wife.
I’m not clear on what you’re saying here. What are you referencing that he wasn’t told?
@@DCharles That she didn’t return his feelings.
I think his whole obsession with Lyanna was rather delusional. Yes, maybe Robert and Lyanna would have had some of the same hobbies, but relationships need to be about more than that. Robert would have cheated on her again and again.
@@rosesweetcharlotte You are projecting modern views on relationships onto a story based on a historical setting where people didn't have the time or energy to 'get to know each other' before marriage. The reality is that many marriages were arranged, especially amongst the highborn. Catelyn Tully was betrothed to Brandon Stark, but then had to marry Ned, not because she loved him, but because of duty. Lyanna did not uphold her duty, choosing to run off with a married prince who thought that he was making prophecy.
As for Robert, it's undeniable that his primary desire for marrying her was not for Lyanna, but for the chance to officially be Ned's brother, but Lyanna's tomboyish nature was certainly a bonus to further bolster the theoretical attraction. The bastard children is also condemnable, but Robert was not the first lord to have children out of wedlock, and he wouldn't be the last. Sometimes it works out. I don't like the Boltons, but Ramsey Snow is a perfect heir to the Dreadfort.
@@EyePatchGuy88 It is a modern story where GRRM definitely wants us to impose some modern sensibilities.
Robert was a womaniser and Lyanna knew this. He wanted Lyanna, initally, because he found her attractive. He didn't know her as an individual. In my headcanon, I believe that friends likely hinted to Robert that Lyanna didn't really desire or want him and was less than happy with their match, but he had an over inflated ego, owing to the fact that most women did find him desirable; he was in complete denial and refused to entertain the possibility that the one he coveted didn't want him.
If she hadn't eloped with Rhaegar (per show canon) and had, instead, married him as intended, he would eventually have grown tired of her and been as unfaithful to her as he was to Cersei, because he wasn't in love with Lyanna for herself; he was in love with the notion of her, of wooing her and winning her, and, when she died, he could only ever envision his idealised version of her.
So true
He also already had one known bastard at the time of their betrothal, and two other likely ones.
In the first book Robert said that Lyanna would have never challenged or shamed him like Cersei does, I cant remeber the exact terms Robert uses but Ned in his own head directly after that contradicts that. Robert would have treated Lyanna exactly how he treated Cersei because neither one would have let Robert do what he wanted.
Kind of gave me Illiad vibes
@@AnthonySforza so Robert is Menelaus?
imagine trying to tell a 6"5 lump of pure muscle who can have your head on a spike quicker than he can put his boots on that he may have a bad case of the Feelings
The one line I remember from Robert
"What's the bigger number 5 or 1?"
/holds up his hand "5"
/holds up his fist "1"
AHHHH the thought that Robert might have said "I can't even remember what she looked like" not out of grief but out of "she was an obsession that burned hot but not a lasting love to remember" is SOOO interesting, I had not considered it that way until this video. Of course I had considered (and headcanon) that the robert/lyanna relationship WAS one-sided.
AND the parallel between Robert being a good conqueror but a poor leader with Robert "demanding" that everyone "gets along." At least Show Daenerys (I refuse to believe this is how True Daenerys would act) *ALWAYS* just spoke at people until they gave in, perhaps with one showy display of either her dragons or her loyal men. (I think that's where D&D failed her character, she didn't JUST make speeches she actually considered her role in EVERYTHING the dragons did "if they are monsters, then so am I") BUT I think it's a really interesting parallel, again one I had not considered!
My thoughts on Robert are that he truly did believe his strength and sturdiness was what the realm needed to be "stable." He thought if he continued as a war-time military leader everything would be fine. His strength would command all. Oooh but that's another consideration, isn't it? That blood ties and family words are not just marks of a family but also portents that you speak upon yourself. "Ours is the fury" Well there are a few ways we could read that. "Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned" is an easy interpretation with Cersei representing the boar that literally gored Robert. And then there's the "fury" of the wild. Boars are some of the most vicious, non-mythical, creatures in the wild. And Robert thought himself above a simple pig. But his mistake was that it was not a pig...but a boar.... ahh im thinking too much about it lol
but this video had me pondering about an episode that aired when i was in middle school 😅 Well done!
Even domesticated pigs are strong, fast, can be big n incredibly aggressive esp when provoked, and do a lot of damage
The thing that would've pissed Robert off the most would be him finding out that Cersei really was his soulmate 😂
Yeah, they’re both terrible persons.
Don't forget that GRRM was working with them on the writing, at this point.
💯
I don't think anyone would deny that D&D wrote 3-4 of the best seasons of television ever put to screen. When season 1 of GOT wrapped there was 40-50 minutes of run time left to pad out which the writers had to come up with themselves. The fact that these "filler" scenes stand out as some of the best in the first season shows how good an understanding D&D had of these characters at one point, and makes their creative choices in later seasons all the more frustrating.
I think there best part was having a good foundation and working with it, but when they starting going without the foundation by skipping huge chunks of the books, putting a lot of filler and stuff that didn't work with the foundation is when it all fell. And the cracks were to hard to ignore when they had no foundation at all
@@Ashbrash1998 Agree. They could manage great creative character writing when the plot + action elements were already well and consistently established, but when they had to choreograph most of the storyline, the character writing consequently suffered. Even still, there were still some well done interpersonal moments between characters after season 4 that weren't all just from the books. I love the scene where Jaime and Olenna talk and Olenna says, "Tell Cersei...I want her to know it was me," even if the plot elements and fast travel happening in that season were nonsensical.
the funny thing is if i remember hbo wanted to give them few more seasons. But they decided to wrap and rush everything up . They wanna jump to disney or something
Running out of book material was the problem. They have no idea who the characters are or what they are supposed to be doing once they are in new places and expected to have changed slightly as characters.They started having to make secondary character developing scenes the driving force behind the main plot.
People always said they ran out of source material but there’s a whole lot they didn’t adapt. That show could have easily been 10-12 seasons
I think the books played more of a role to the scene than the D&D's writing did. It's not a bad scene, it's basically just other characters opinions and musings about their relationship and motivations given new life in a scene in the show.
It's hard to give them a whole lot of credit here since the heavy lifting was already done for them in the source material.
That’s loosely my point. Expanding on the source material, maintaining book canon themes and messaging, while including original content based on asoiaf is what they did perfectly… until they didn’t.
George was also there to help, until they kicked him out cause they believed they knew better.
RE Cersei's envy: Not only did her husband love Lyanna and not her, but her father's first choice, Prince Rhaegar, also passed her up (and was in love with Lyanna). Must've stung the ego.
Back when the writing was still good, it WAS really good.
"Robert is too focused on the mystety war he assumes awaits him in the future"
Coughcough white walkers coughcough
Robert knew
I've always been puzzled by the fact Cersei would have certainly cheated on robert anyways but was so bent out of shape over that fact he didnt love her. It's such an odd egotistical spite. I mean its in character for her to be a dumbass with no self reflection.
She was required to be beautiful and graceful. Other men wanted her but the one she was required to have sex with doesn't love her. It had to annoy her character to see her husband to pursue other women.
Cersei was raised to and believe she was the most beautiful maiden in the realm. That men didnt bothered her
Yes to the beautiful comments, but also when she is told that her worth/power lies in her beauty and someone rejects that, Cersei likely felt powerless. She had to figure out how to get some control over the span of her marriage (this point in the series). She went from her controlling father to a disinterested Robert. This exchange shows us a lot about Robert, indeed, but it lays the groundwork for who Cersei becomes because of it.
Well Cersei does say at one point that she was willing to try to genuinely make the marriage work, but she became spiteful when Robert whispered Lyanna's name during sex. The dude basically spat in her face and she became spiteful and eventually hateful of both Robert and Lyanna
This is not how it works. Stud was cheating, did not love her and only than she decided to start acting in similar way. She is in her right, if we are ok with equality in relationships. Moreover, they both really did not care much and considered the marriage their job
These scenes in season 1 that they added to pad out runtime are absolutely phenomenal. I love the "war stories" one between Robert, Jaime, and Barristan. They really show more depth to the characters that we don't have POVs for that early in the books. Pure show material that shined like gold, now compare that to the filler scenes in the latter seasons.
Robert should have been Minister of War or some such.
Then the 7 kingdoms would have never left the state of war.
@@GMSryBut Do you think the Minister of War gets to choose when the country goes to war?
I think Robert’s true love was Ned and Lyanna dying meant he’d never be family to Ned and that’s why he’s really mad. I doubt he really cared for Lyanna as a person, he seems to view her as a means to an end, an object to win. Which is why he was so quick to betroth Joffrey to Sansa.
1:22 Cersei is actually a little bit right about their marriage, it's Tywin's influence that keeps the realm running peacefully and Robert only has Tywin while he is married to Cersei
It's not that Robert is oblivious. He just doesn't give a flying fuck. He expects his Small Council to do the majority of his job (and Jon Arryn and Ned, of course.)
He was an awesome warrior and general, so he definitely wasn't always oblivious, and he obviously was born and raised as an eldest son in a Great House, so he had the education, he just doesn't give a shit about ruling.
Robert’s mistake towards Lyanna was assuming that he was owed her because ”he loved her”. Straight up delusion. Arranged union or no, nobody is owed another person.
This portion of the show was so significant I would always reference the events in these earlier episodes to any further episodes and see what the ripple effect was
I think when Cersei mentioned that the entire realm was held together by their marriage is that Robert owed so much to the lannisters and the iron bank that if they were to separate it would lead to a conflict between who rules Westeros and how the king will ever repay the debts without conquering or going into a war with the lannisters for their gold.
Dan and Dave did an extremely good job at ~adapting~ the major points of GRRM's writings. Where things went wrong was when they started writing the plot themselves
I don’t know about plot as an issue so much, but theme and characterization just seemed too inconsistent.
love the jolly happy music in the bg while we talk about CERSEI and ROBERT 😭😭😭
It’s the most common complaint about this video. I’m not certain what I was thinking anymore
I was about to comment this. The music is so distracting and also kind of the best bit😅
I think the realm being held together by the strength of their marriage is true in the sense that Robert is a blob who doesn't want to reign, so the kingdom is kept going by Tywin's guidance and, more directly, his funding, which he would only do for Robert is Cersei was married to him.
D&D didn't run out of material or anything, they ran out of drive for the genre. They'd poured allot of creative energy into the world to this point and were years deep and other more interesting projects/IPs were on the horizon. They were like a game master who'd run a really great Dungeons and Dragons game for years but were to the point it wasn't firing the creative juices and was more obligation than anything. They were getting paid great and enjoying success but like, creative energy is creative energy and at a certain point you get burned out on fantasy and like to stretch out into other genres like science fiction. I think as soon as they landed their Star Wars projects it was like "okay, let's get this out of the way to get on to the new and exciting for us stuff!" Literally HBO was thrilled with the success and I think offered them more money and indeed more seasons but they at this point just wanted it done. When people lose a creative spark for something the material suffers but it wasn't like they could put it on hiatus and go back to it. Which may have been the only way to save it.
Remember, they REFUSED to step down and let another take over.
@@damonlongstreet8630this right here is why they are hated
I blame the Red Wedding. The Red Wedding is a thing of beauty, one of the greatest plot twists ever. You can see GRRM get obsessed with it in the books and after it's done, he doesn't know what to do with himself. Same thing with the show
Well Rhaegar and her started a war that costed the lives of her Dad and brother and many more. He then shows uo at the end just to be killed like a idiot lol. Robert isnt perfect but I don't see many people put the blame on R+L
Exactly. Rhaegar is also responsible for the death of his ACTUAL wife and 2 children that he abandoned
@@david91lvb yeah
@@david91lvb That would be Tywin actually but go off doofus
@09hicktown Rhaegar doesn't abandon his children, Tywin can't order the mountain to do what he did to Elia and his kids. Very easy to understand so stop trying to act smart
@@Milwaukhehe you do realize if Rhaegar never ran off the war wouldn't of started right?
Bruh, actually imagine what this man would’ve done if he heard about the dragons 😂
In Ep. 3, we learn that half the Crown's debt is to Tywin Lannister, which Robert repeats in Ep. 6 ("I am half a kingdom indebted to his (Jaime's) father"). This is how his marriage to Cersei has been keeping the realm together for 17 years.
I think what’s more significant to the decline in quality on the show wasn’t that they ran out of source material, it was that they basically kicked GRRM out of being actively involved in the production.
'tell me why in the comments' Robert knew the kindoms' coffers were empty. He knew he needed Tywin
The additions D&D made to the show from seasons 1-3 are phenomenal. It's too bad they only did the show to get to the Red Wedding and didn't care about what came next. It really could have been great if they cared and I think that's really why fans hate them.
robert wasn't delusional. he just didnt give a fuck
Great video and a great insight into Bobby B and how he was both the most clued up and clueless character of the first season.
Just a quick note (and please do take this with a grain of sand as I’m not a TH-camr), but the background music was a little too dissonant for me with the video’s topic/content. Otherwise, great analysis and very much enjoyed!
The decision to go with that music will haunt me for the duration of this video. It was intended for the introduction only. You’re not alone with that critique though
I gotta say I felt a bit mean giving that criticism! Also now for not reading enough comments to see I wasn’t the only one 😬 great vid though content-wise, you’ve got a cool channel here dude 😎
@@jackleith3502 it’s not mean. You weren’t alone at all with that criticism. Glad to have you watch.
Thanks man! Glad to be here on the channel and always cool to interact with the TH-camr 😎
Finally a non AI GOT channel❤❤❤❤ subbed
Given that daddy Lannister pays his debts (real or created by LT) the realm indeed is held by their union, one won the war, his son secured him not only the seat but the entire KL and it’s people (I doubt that the end of the war ending in a big boom would have made him look good and more when common people had a positive view of Rhaegar, Starla may have been offended but the KL population could care less about that) and Cersei I guess basically tells him I gave you succession (gladly for her he didn’t look twice at his kids and can’t see they don’t look like him at all) which again leads to Tywin having interest in him keeping the throne so it can pass to his grandchildren and him regaining his position as hand.”
Aerys declined Cersei as a bride for his heir which resulted in the Lannister army turning their back on him and his son even if he would have been a better king .
So Cersei is right the fact the Robert can’t stand her and won’t just set her aside to get himself a new queen in full Henry the VIII fashion proves it.
D& D stopped caring.
0:30 GRRM was heavily involved in the first half of the show but he parted ways to work on other projects with a rough idea of where to take it. The first couple of seasons were very true to the books. Dan and Dan didn't really WRITE these scenes when the books already wrote it out and George help direct it lol
George didn’t write this scene. George conceded that he took months to write a single episode, he’s not freelancing on other episodes to add additional scenes that are NOT in the book without having writer’s credits. Sorry.
I think Cersei was probably right about their marriage holding the realm together, at least in the aspect of the Baratheon/Lannister alliance. The Lannisters after all had the second largest army, second only to the Tyrells who supported the Targaryens in the Civil War. Without the alliance, should anyone question Robert (or his children's) claim, he would really only have the North, Riverlands, and maybe the Vale to back him up. Also worth mentioning that Jon Arryn was dead so they'd probably be neutral. However, Robert's claim is much safer with Tywin backing him.
Mark Addy is the most underrated actor on the whole show. He really nailed the role of King Robert.
when Cersei says their marriage holds the seven kingdoms she's reffering to the lanister gold Robert has access to thanks to his marriage. The crown is 6 ,illion dragons in debtt thanks to littlefinger, who might have done it in order to cement tywin's power over the crown
I always found it telling that he could remember the faces of the men he has killed, but can't remember the face of the girl he went to war over.
Robert kept the realm at peace for 20 years and was 100% right about taking out Dany when he had the chance as she would go on to be the most vile evil monster in all of GoT
Also, the most important thing is that he never wanted to be king so he was never gonna take the consult meeting serious unlike Ned and John
The thing with Robert is that we are witnessing the aftermath of what sbould be his "..hapily ever after" and nothing is going that way and he doesn't know why himself
A prince kidnaps his betrothed.
The mad king unjustly killed his best friends dad and demanded his own head. His best friend and surrogate father stand by him against the king. He has a climactic battle against said prince, gets the throne though losing his betrothed marries the richest and one of the most beautiful women inthe country. That should be the end. There should be satisfaction but theres not.
It should be noted Robert really was the guy when he was young. Ripped like maidens fantasy. Brave. Strong. Handsome. Wealthy. Competent. During the rebellion not all his lords were loyal he fought three consecutive battles with each of those factions and won back them to his side with charisma alone but he fell off
And like he said, Rhaegar still won, in a fashion
I’ve always liked scenes like this because they feel like glimpses into different worlds.
This is the one time that was see Cersei and Robert actually being vulnerable and speaking openly to one another. It feels like a glimpse into a world where their marriage is at least amicable. I don’t think they ever could’ve truly loved each other, but I do believe that there is a timeline where they could’ve put aside all the other bullshit and just agreed to rule the kingdom and tolerate one another.
King Robert's thoughts were echoed by Joffrey later on. He said to Cersei about a single Army for the Seven Kingdoms, and said to Tywin that something should be done about the potential threat of the Dragons to Westeros. Both Robert and Joffrey were right. It's a shame no one took their worries seriously...
There's some truth to her statement. If her father hadn't bent the knee to Robert and sealed it with marrying his daughter to him the war would have continued to tear the realm apart. That's all academic though, even i don't think Tywin would continue a war that he'd lose.
His whole love for Leanna was a fantasy.
I don’t think Weiss and Benioff were untalented. They just wanted to be free of GOT as quickly as possible so they could sign some very lucrative deals. Problem is they fucked up their own reputations on the way out the door
Personally I think Cersei is right in saying their marriage held the realm together, especially if we're talking about the begining of his reign
Many lords were still Targaryen loyalists, especially in the Reach and in Dorne, and a counter rebellion to retake the throne for Viserys isn't something that's entirely impossible (Just look at what's happening in the North with the Boltons in the books)
If they sensed weakness, they'd probably pounce, bringing in the Lannisters to the fold though really cemented the regime and solidified the Targaryen loyalists as a Minority. We know Tywin would probably not of helped any Targaryen restoration movement, but sacking kings landing and marrying his daughter to Robert made it so that he'd actively combat it. Having the King and 5 of the Lords Paramount be actively anti-Targ makes the odds of a successful rebellion VERY low
"Do you believe honor helds it together? No!"
Robert was based
This makes almost angrier just cuz it shows D&D could write they just didn’t care
Also, his wife also said she was in love with the prince and she was still sleeping with her brother so her loving somebody means nothing because she loves herself more so she sleeps with her relatives because they look like her or they remind her of her
"I can't even remember what she looked like." *Insert Ad Break of Blind Al from Deadpool & Wolverine advertising Old Spice.*
The showrunners were good when they afforded themselves some freedom to play with existing material, but completely at a loss when they had no guiding light.
My head cannon is that Robert subconsciously knows that those aren't his children. That would explain a lot of his behavior.
To the point at the end where you say the 8:56 “ran out of source material” is wrong is honestly not great. They used the context to write a scene like this. Robert was a finished character that they had a clear arc mapped out for them by Grrm, it’s unfortunate.
It is wrong to blame running out of source material. However, you do have a legitimate point about a “completed” character. There’s not much criticism on characters who were completed/killed if they were also killed in the books.
Robert winning the Battle of the Trident was the dark timeline.
About the comment on how Dave and Dan stopped expanding on the source material, I believe they were able to construct original scenes like this one specifically because they had that material to act like a puzzle border. They were just filling in the rest as it made sense. A solid chunk of things they reworked or added in earlier seasons were great because they made it fit behind what was to come. When there was a less clear picture about what was to come, that's when it started to fall apart.
I don’t know. They disregarded major plots and characters from AFFC and ADWD.
This is the reason i want a prequel for the rebellion. I feel it would add so much to the story we know and the characters we see. More tragedy i suppose but i do want a better understanding of Robert's character. From my understanding the reason dnd made the show was because they wanted to recreate the red wedding that was Thier ambition so they didn't really know where to go after that.
D&D can write amazing storytelling, they just need source material 😂
I kinda like the music. Doesn't bother me at all.
Good video. I'll be back for more🎉😊
When D and D gave a shit, it worked.
Robert feels like that athlete that got his pro contract and immediately lost interest in the sport and just wanted to vibe the rest of his life. 😂😂
Scenes like this are part of why I hate D and D so much. They didn't screw up seasons 6-8 because of pure incompetence, scenes like this PROVE they had creative talent. They just didn't give any effort.
Cersei's self indulgent delusion causes her to believe that it's her, and her relationships, that are holding the kingdom together.
Of course Robert was delusional. You'd have to be if you took one look at Joffery and think he was yours.
I don't believe Robert ever genuinely loved Lyanna. He loved the idea of her, the daughter of the lord of Winterfell and the sister of his best friend who was the brother he wanted. She was perfect for him, but even after they were engaged, he still slept around. He didn't make any great efforts to win her over or endear himself to her. Then Rheagar 'kidnaps' her, the Crown Prince literally stole a treasure from the Lord of the Storm Lands. It's hard to imagine a greater insult. Pile onto that the king ordered his death and Ned had his sister abducted and that is more than enough reason for Robert to want to kill every last Taergeryan.
Whether or not their marriage does hold the realm together, *they* clearly think so
He doesn't remember what Lyanna looked like...and was screwing around on her...
I think that one scene in the crypt redefines him entirely. He just doesn’t care as much without his lady stark love anymore kinda just doing what he has to do as long in a way he wants to without much thought to consequences because there’s no point and worse case it’s not his problem anymore
"Madness, as you know, is like gravity. All it takes is a little push."
Haha, I love the happy lil' background music.
Robert I believe deep down knew Lyanna didn't love him but didn't want to accept that fact. I doubt she ever showed interest in Robert. If he had gotten to marry Lyanna he would've eventually gotten angry once he would've seen that she was only human and not the girl he assumed her to be and then had done her as shitty as he did Cersei.
I don’t understand why anyone would rally to get a Targ back on the throne. The last was one was mad.
He was not oblivious, nor was he negligent. Read the books. The line “I only ever loved one woman, and seven kingdoms could not fill the hole she left behind.” The man did not expect to survive his rebellion and never had a plan for what came after. “He was quick to anger, and even quicker to forgive.” He was an atrocious husband though.
You can give D&D some credit sure, but GRRM was also very much involved early on. They were consulted on these characters and lore.