Top 5 Players of the Game of Thrones
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 มิ.ย. 2024
- We count down who the top 5 players of the game of thrones were and what their strengths and weaknesses are.
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00:00 Intro
01:06 5
04:26 4
09:57 3
14:53 2
19:59 1 - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
I'd put Littlefinger ahead of Varys. Littlefinger has almost-singlehandedly plunged the seven kingdoms into civil war and positioned himself to profit from the resulting chaos. He's effectively Lord of the Vale and was heading for Lord of Harrenhal and Warden of the North too. He's just unlucky that Sansa has a greenseer and an assassin as siblings.
The issue I have with that is Littlefinger is a master improviser. He may think chaos is a ladder, but he’s deluding himself to think he can continue to profit from that. If he truly needs disorder to retain his power, then he will never be secure; sooner or later, his means shall become his end.
Varys, on the other hand, is working to advance another candidate, and LF’s chaos actually benefits that. We should also recall that Varys set the stage for LF to cause such havoc in the first place through his (in)actions. Had Varys been a truly loyal servant of the Crown, LF would have remained a minor lordling and Bobby B would have put Cersei and Jaime’s heads on pikes.
@@warlordofbritannia He can think chaos is a ladder while still being able to function without chaos, we know he’s capable as he built up enormous wealth by himself even without all that “chaos” stuff.
@@winstonpeanutbutter but he ultimately got killed due to his own plans and got outsmarted by monster of his own creation
@@kevincapote82 that was just poor writing
Twice. The first time he kicked off Robert's Rebellion.
LF was a genius in using the other players to his advantage while keeping himself in the shadow and sceming around the people he knew they trusted him. The Tully sisters both did just what he wanted without knowing that they are played, Ned did as his brother and father did before and LF used that to leverage himself into a pretty high position. But that was the point where his luck ended. He was doomed the day he became Lord of Harrenhal. Even the most skilled player can't play with curses and magic, the same as even the best general can't fight dragons or the others.
Craster has the be number 1 he was the only one smart enough to make diplomacy with ice zombies
Underrated player. - Thom
He was running out of sacrifices
@@mathewparry9256 He can always make more
@@mathewparry9256 no?
Tyrion and Margaery both seem to have the potential to reach up to the level of their father/grandmother
We orginally had a section about Tyrion and how he was hot out the gate but was eventually lapped by better players which is why he wouldn't make the best player list but can't make a worst list ethier. I agree with you though both Tyrion and Margaery have potential, its just Margaery has been steered in the right direction and Tryion discouraged and actively opposed at every turn.
Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips yea, imagine what Tyrion could have reached if Tywin had been a good father 🤯
@@TheFandomeClipstyrion should have joined stannis baratheon. He literally has no reason to side with his family. and stannis values talent.
That would have been a powerful marriage! I’m in
Tyrion, Margaery, and Arya somewhere in the 6-10 slots
Ser Pounce is clearly the greatest player of the game. From birth he managed to enthrall the young prince who would eventually become the king of Westeros. Even when the previous king threatened to murder him just to spite his brother Ser Pounce clearly had enough influence over the rest of the royal court to deter the mad king from following through on his threats thus ensuring a cozy life of infinite milk, treats, and chin scritches. This is all the more impressive considering Joffrey has a history of felicide and yet still dared not bring harm to the legendary Ser Pounce.
Then I want to put Balerion into the game too! Rhaenys little cat survived the sacking, saw Gregor and Amory kill it's owners, lived for decades and was king of the secret cat empire in the keep with all the guards and servants knowing of him. No wonder, considering he's the black dread reborn.
Agreed
Bran Stark. Nobody saw him coming.
Haha brilliant and also apt, he should have been our number 1. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Cheers mate, good video
And Bran had the most knowledge.
“Why do you think I came all this way?”
You’re not wrong.
Tywin’s only real mistake was underestimating Tyrion. That man had the game, set, and match until he took a bolt to the belly.
not really. I think Tywin was far too brutal unnecessarily. the enemies he made with the Red Wedding, Sack of King's Landing and burning of the Riverlands would have eventually led to consequences for his family and its rule.
and Dany was still coming.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 You mean the enemies he ended. They should be glad he didn’t exterminate their entire bloodlines like the Reynes of Castamere. And he was already trying to make plans to deal with Dany.
@@AzarathMetreon He could have made plans so far he wanted. In a war with dragons, the side without them loses. Well, unless you are Dorne, but the terrain and the past of the Rhoynar played a huge role in that. But winning the conventional way? No way. Having a dragon makes you a superpower. Winning against Dany would be really hard, especially if you are he man who betrayed her father. Assassination would probably not work, so his only possibility would be exploiting her common sense by using civilians and cities as shield. But would that give him the win on the long run? I doubt it.
@@sinusspass1998 The only reason trying to assassinate her didn’t work is because Jorah was starting to regret his decision re: spying on Dany. She was about to drink that wine and die if he had done the job he signed up for. No dragons, no army, no sea crossing.
I think one of the Spider's greatest weaknesses resided in his lack of direct power and allies. He has to act THROUGH OTHERS. At least players like Tywin or Olenna can act to prevent something going wrong for them (via loyal soldiers, assasins, gold for bribes, even the power in their names ect). If something goes wrong for Varys, he has no choice but to just take the incoming blow, pivot and adjust (as he did with Ned's excecution and the resulting war happening way too soon for his endgame - an event everyone agrees that Tywin could easilly have stopped). He's VERY good at laying the breadcrumbs for what he wants to happen, but laying breadcrumbs is really all he can do.
Thats very true Bencm 👍 not sure if that makes him even more badass though the fact he can mold and move around others plans take the knocks and turn them to his favour without requiring external resources. Your right though, like Littlefinger hes a bit of a glass cannon, one word from a truly powerful player and his head could be on a spike. Thanks for watching! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips Thank YOU for the great content!
Yes, a glass cannon is the perfect way to describe him!
"The Storms Come And Go, The Waves Crash Overhead, The Big Fish Eat The Little Fish, And I Keep On Paddling."
On paper he is defenceless, in practice he is indispensable. He removes himself off the board before he can be taken out, and can remove the other players off the board should it serve his purpose.
I also suspect Varys has been a faceless man in the books, and could hold his own in a fight.
It also frees him of any consequences when the plan fails leaving him free to concentrate on one of the other multiple irons he has in the fire.
Despite his mistakes as a father , Tywin really had the heir that he wish : Kevan 😢
Also Tyrion
Honestly this is so real justice for kevan the best most competent person in the realm
@@thepunisher6674 I wonder if we can somehow engineer an AU where Stannis becomes king with Kevan as his hand?
That pair would get things done!
@thepunisher6674 I disagree he was too soft which is why fell into Varys trap like he did Tywin would never
@@Huhbroski
He was not too soft he led part of the army against the reyne Tarbeck revolt and in the war of the five kings, kevan wasn’t one for wanton cruelty but he by no means was soft
Varys' biggest weakness in the show is his insanely high standards. Varys expects his rulers to be absolutely perfect at all times, and whenever their moral compass falters, he immediately begins the process of betraying them and finding a replacement. Daenerys wasn't having any of it and burned him alive.
Definitely true for the show version. His puppets need to be as perfect as him.
Thanks for watching remnantreacts! Liam
@@TheFandomeClips I like that you guys actually give out thoughtful responses to your comments, people really appreciate you guys engaging with the viewers in a way that doesn’t seem like it was written by a bot
What? no. Varys begged her not to destroy a whole city, and Dany was like "nah".
if anything he gave up on Robert too quickly, not Dany. Roibert was neither mad nor cruel, as he says.
by this logic, even Ned Stark has impossible standards, given he gave up on Joff and Tommen solely because of claim and blood right. and most of the North gave up on Jon and Sansa because of the sins of their older brother. Lyanna Mormont was about to leave Sansa to die because "um, you were forced to marry bad people so go away".
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 Of course he gave up on Robert. My man loses his brain the second he put the hammer down. Then he just thinks of girls and alc.
Giving up on Dany was harder, but considering Jon, who presented himself absolutely perfect, it was understandable. Still stupid, because Dany still had absolute power, but this season was BS at all.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 By the conversation Varys had with Tyrion on the boat before Rhaegal & Missandei were killed, he was planning on betraying her as soon as he was told Jon is Targaryen. That is before Daenerys had any desire to burn King's Landing. He started verbally questioning her behind her back starting in 7x4 after she executed the Tarlys (when they refused a pardon & the Night's Watch) even though in 6x10 Jon tied Ramsay in the kennels and let Sansa feed him alive to dogs and Arya baked 2 men into a pie & tricked their father into eating them.
I think I can agree with 4/5 of this list. I think calling Pycelle a good player is somewhat overblown. For one his position is chosen by the citadel and once installed he is hard to remove.
He is not bad, but no great player.
For someone who does play well I would actually suggest the (when younger) Hoster Tully. He made in self indispensable to the rebellion and through the alliances made tied to 2 of the more powerful factions there.
The weakness of course is similar to Tywin he is unable to properly manage one of his daughters who goes insane despite being near the top as far as women go. But his schemes were all told well played and raised the tullys up a few notches.
His lack of ability to inspire loyal vassals is his main limitation.
I think we chose Pycell for how long he's managed to hang around, 6 kings (2 of whom were unstable monsters) was quite a feat in our eyes but I understand why you may think otherwise.
Hoster is a dam good player even in his old age. He actually outplays Tywin once which is no mean feat and doesn't take the Lions bait.
Thanks for watching as always Neo matey! Liam
Hoster is a good shout, but I'm at a bit of two minds about him, mainly *because* he nailed his colors to the mast of the rebellion so fast. If Robert had lost to Rhaegar at the Trident, House Tully could've easily ended up in the mud. It was a massive gamble, one that could've really backfired on him. There's a reason Tywin decided to sit out the Rebellion for as long as he could, despite having a personal score he wanted to settle with Aerys.
That said, I also don't know who else I'd put ahead of Pycelle instead of Hoster. I was considering Doran Martell, who has been playing the long game and shown a godly amount of patience in doing so, but he's kind of at the other end of the spectrum and could be considered *too* passive (and I admittedly don't know enough about his actual plot to judge him fairly I feel like, as I haven't read the books).
@@TheFandomeClips I always appreciate you guys and your interaction with the comments. It's great to see (one day you should do a sort of "commenters thoughts" episode and see what happens).
But because I am the obsessive nerd who need to over explain everything I wanna say I get the argument for Pycelle and he is certainly at least competent, plus becoming the GM will take some politicking.. However the 6 kings feat is I think not as impressive as it sounds.
Of those 6 kings Robert was apathetic, and Aegon and Jaeherys seem to be decent enough kings that being a competent maester would do (plus J was only king a short time). Tommen is a kitten as well so the only tough kings are Aerys and Joffrey.
Frankly manipulating Joffrey is not exactly hard. Let him indulge his passions and you will be fine. Plus stay out of the conflict between Tyrion and his family and you can avoid the battle. So the GM not being harmed by Joff is not I think a sign of great playing, but competence alone. Again he is not bad at the game but it doesn't strike me as a feat that needs celebration.
So that leaves Aerys. Well for most of that reign he had the protection of Tywin as Hand, who only left office a couple of years before the end. This period was a tough one for him to navigate but again I don;t think staying on Aerys good side was exceptionally hard for a GM, who cannot be blamed in the way a hand can when things go wrong. His surviving is a testament but the shortness of the period limits it's benchmark status as an achievement.
Not to mention how easily Tyrion outwits and outplays him in KL on more than one occasion. Not that Tyrion is a slouch but it shows a significant misstep on his part.
Again he is no slouch as a player of the game and owuld belong probably in a top 10/20, but I would not laud his feats as much as you as he was often protected or propped up by others and relatively easily disposed of by better players when the time came.
@@crossy6398 I think show Doran was doing fairly well, until the Crazy Lady decided that the only way to avenge her lover was to kill the rest of his family. He kept Dorne out of the trouble, managed to score an marriage pact with the reputed king's sister and was able to defuse a pretty horrific situation all told.
In the books from what I gather his plan is more overtly to support Dany but he has internal trouble with his daughter and so is not able to be too effective. Lets be fair, until he is got out of the way Dorne as a nation lost nothing throughout the war. Except Oberyn but that was a very personal decision thing no scheming could stop.
EDIT: Also, with Tully on board you had The North, Riverlands, Vale and Stormlands on one side, with Stannis tying up most of the Reach forces at Storm's end and Tywin out of the game. Frankly it was a 4 vs 2 at that point against the Crownlands and Dorne. Not bad odds all things considered. His failing there was not capitalising by getting some Riverlandish influence on the Capital. Plus he was already inclined to their side as Brandon was going to be his son in law, making him another aggrieved party.
people underestimate him and he wants them to, intentionally. but you're right. he's made some bad mistakes, like choosing Cersei over Tyrion.
Bronn for me is a honorable mention on my book, the guy literally got lucky when he ran into Tyrion & Kat in the Inn at the Crossroads and took the opportunity to join in on the Party. He took an huge gamble on siding with Tyrion as for him siding with the Lannisters would set him up to climb the social ladder. Becoming a knight and of Minor nobility and in charge of City Watch to eventually becoming the Lord of the Reach and a member of the small council.
An to think the guy started off as a mercenary with barely a penny to his name, Bronn is basically an opportunist and knows when to side on the winners or people that will simply help and improve his standing in life. Non of the other players in the game see Bronn as a threat or a Major player cause Bronn didn't make himself a major player he just played his cards right and worked with the right people and simply hope for the best.
Cause unlike the people that are on this list Bronn is alive and got what he wants while all the people on this list got murdered/executed and didn't get or partially get what they want.
Oh 100%, he's one of the only characters in both show and books who simply cannot lose. He's constantly moving up.
@@elijahalbiston
Even if he dies, he’s already gotten far further than he ever should have.
He moves up, but he also is highly selective when it comes to where and when he takes his gambles and who he gambles on.
I think this ultimately limits how high he could rise, but like Littlefinger or Varys he starts so low that given where he finishes (and unlike Varys and Littlefinger, he does finish) the tale (at least in the show) I think he clearly belongs on this list and could maybe go as high as the top spot.
Basically Pycelle, but with battle prowess as well
you got it right in your first sentence. he got lucky. he stumbled into power for no good reason out of pure luck, and his opponents not just axing him out when they have the chance.
how on earth was Tyrion ever expecting to convince Daenerys, if she lived, to hand Bronn such power?
Honorable Mention: Bronn
The only player to achieve Lordship and a high position at court with zero political skill, maneuvering, or even qualification for his position
Thats actually a dam good point TKarp. Forget Honourable mention Bronn should have made the list lol. Thanks for watching! Liam
varys' weakness is his hatred of magic tbh
fundamentally, he is playing a political game in a world he understands, while the thing he hates most grows stronger and stronger each day. in the end i think it will cloud his judgement and cause him to make unwise decisions for no reason beyond prejudice, ultimately compromising his endgame once dragons and red priests take center stage.
when was that a weakness? Varys had the Game won, set and match, until he became extremely foolish at the last possible moment, pointlessly blabbing his plan to Tyrion and Jon.
he was never taken down by magic. he was taken down by Tyrion selling him out.
@@godemperorofmankind3.091 i don't feel comfortable discussing this topic with you.
lol
Here's my list before watching the video:
1. Varys
2. Littlefinger
3. Tyrion
4. Tywin
5. Wyman Manderly
Honorable mentions: Olenna Tyrell, Roose Bolton
3 out 5 and nearly all on the right spots! Well done 👏 Manderly was in our top 10 when we were thinking of making it a top 10s list, dude is a badass! Liam
Tyrion?????
@@wanyekivincent2883 he's basically almost as good as Tywin but without the resources.
At least that was my reasoning.
@@sinayezulu9928 Tyrion is very witty I won't deny it but when it comes to playing the game he's not as good as he might think. Sticking around as joffery died was what pretty dumb leaving could have given him a fighting chance- speaking from the book's perspective.(There are more examples but I would prefer not to continue racking my brain) Tyrion also is only able to solve problems at the time - though pretty well- he isn't able to influence events as other players do. He would probably make it to the top ten but most definitely not the top three
@@wanyekivincent2883 My overall view on Tyrion’s performance is that he is intelligent, he knows how the game is played (theoretically at least) but he is incredibly inexperienced and unprepared for the vipers nest that is kings landing.
Ah, Varys was definitely the MVP of the Game of Thrones. Through the influence he gained over a lifetime of spy craft, people wound up calling him "Lord Varys" despite having no lands, titles or inheritance. Lord Varys had that ideal combination of patience and initiative, allowing him to nurture a long game strategy while deftly undermining opponents (warning Olenna that Littlefinger intended to kidnap Sansa to secure a greater hold over the North). I know we've been challenged to find a legitimate flaw to Lord Varys, but it is just so hard to find one (but I managed to come up with a SINGLE criticism aside from Books>Show).
Varys planned for success without having contingencies for if something went wrong or his counsel wasn't heeded.
1: The Sack of King's Landing: Varys warned King Aerys II that Tywin intended to betray the Targaryens, but the Mad King ignored the warning and opened the gates. I know Book Varys MAY have made plans to secure a Targaryen Revival, but he didn't make plans to secure King's Landing against Tywin's betrayal.
2. The execution of Ned Stark. Varys had helped broker the deal that if Lord Eddard confessed his treason, Sansa would be spared and war could be averted. He didn't have a plan for Joffrey going off script and ad-libbing his lines to have Lord Eddard executed.
3. Keeping Sansa out of Littlefinger's hands. Yes, he succeeded in keeping Sansa out of Littlefinger's hands by letting the Tyrells try to marry her off to Ser Loras (or his brother in the books), but this success was brief. Yes, Littlefinger didn't get Sansa at the time. However, the Tyrells didn't get Sansa either because she was married off to Tyrion (a clever bit of asset denial by Tywin). When Joffrey's cruelty was too great a risk to Margaery, Olenna decided to scheme with Littlefinger to eliminate the boy-king in exchange for Sansa, who was no longer an available asset to the Tyrells. It was a delayed failure, but a failure all the same, with Sansa falling into Littlefinger's clutches.
His final failure that ended in his death was so poorly contrived that I'm tempted to consider it non-canon. Still, it was in line with his previous failures because Lord Varys tried to have Daenerys assassinated, but failed to plan an exit strategy should his plot be discovered. (Planned for success without preparing for failure).
Ah Bloodraven your insights are always welcome 🙏 this is a serious contender for the pin. Fantasy point about Varys and brilliant suggestion for his weakness! Thanks for watching as always mate! Liam
I thought Varys was called “Lord” out of courtesy at him being a councillor
If you are going to make the top 5 worst players it would be so funny if Balon was the worst, since he is already the worst general
Lol, he is only the best in being the worst in all categories
He’s the inversion of Bobby B. Has no mates, sucks at war, ruler of a puny island, about as much fun as a kick in the nuts - Thom
@@TheFandomeClips
Bobby B-loads of bastards
Balon-two extant children, both legitimate
What got me is where did they get all that wood to make those ships when those Islands were pretty bare.
This is what I needed I live for these videos
No problem Karim, slowly but surely pushing the boat out with length. Thanks for watching! Liam
Cersei is what ultimately undoes Tywin. All his carefully laid plans are dashed by her upon his death; questioned by her Uncle, Aunt, cousins, brothers and really everyone. Despite how much he hates Tyrion it is odd how Tyrion is the only one of his children he speaks to like an equal.
Varis's weakness is his lack of friends. He could have been killed at every time when he was in kingslanding. Tyrion was the only person who liked him. When Jaime frees Tyrion, he threatens to kill varis and nobody would have cared. He simply has to rely on his mind
Love the video you should make one ranking the army’s of each region
Season 8 Tyrion would say Varys' biggest weakness is not having balls.
Or a cock 😂 so true Elrevenio! Thanks for watching! Liam
Surprised this channel only has 17k subscribers the videos are extremely well done and voiced over.
Bronn. Bronn gained the most out of anyone else, directly because of his actions.
He started as a common sellsword and ended up as Lord of the Reach and pretty much the wealthiest man in Westeros. He played his cards very well, only took very well calculated risks and succeded because of it. He was loyal enough to not be suspected of treason, but never too much as to compromise his own interests in order to serve others.
He fought for Tyrion in his first trial by combat, because he didn't have much to lose, but plenty to gain.
Then, he refused to fight in the second one against Ser Gregor, because he had too much to lose and not many things to win by fighting. He proved his loyalty first to Tyrion, then to Jaime, and thus he was rewarded handsomely but knew when to stay out of things.
In the battle of the Bells, again, he chose not to participate. He just stood by and let the rest of Westeros destroy itself. Same for the battle against the dead. And then he again took advantage of the new status quo and became Lord of Highgarden.
He had some luck go his way of course, but his execution was flawless.
bronn stumbled into power through pure luck and the right people in his way dying.
there's no way Dany is giving him all that power, had she lived.
Bronn gained a stupid amount of power in a short time, but it was mostly just him being in the right place in the right time. His only real qualities are 1) he's always looking out for his own interests and 2) he's good at fighting. That's not really top-five-game-of-thrones-players material.
Most of the top players, if they had started out in slightly different parts of the world, would still have worked their way up. If Bronn had started out elsewhere in the world, he'd be dead in a ditch somewhere, or at best be some unremarkable mercenary.
If certain book theories are correct about Varys' sister, his weakness may be loyalty to his family, which would make a very interesting parallel between him and Ned
Let's see: (Based on Show only)
1 Grandchild on the Iron Throne - Brandon Stark
1 Grandchild Queen of the North - Sansa Stark
1 Grandchild Lord of the Eyrie, Warden of the East - Robert Arryn
1 Son is the Lord of Riverrun and Lord Paramount of the Trident - Edmure Tully
1 Daughter was Dowager Lady of Winterfell - Catelyn Stark
1 Daughter was Dowager Lady of the Vale - Lysa Arryn
1 Grandchild was King of the North - Robb Stark
And he died of old age and not violently like every other character on the list (Show only, not books)
Hoster Tully dominated the Game of Thrones.
3 best players based on how fast they ascended to power:
Bronn
Davos
Qyburn
These three came from nothing and held immense positions of power.
You can also add the high sparrow to this list. As the leader of the faith he wielded immense (although unofficial) power and influence which he got from a single agreement with Cersei. He went from running a soup kitchen to becoming one of the most influential men in the kingdom in a matter of days.
Guesses before watching:
5. Ross Bolton
4. Olden Tyrell
3. Varys
2. Little Finger
1. Tywin
Not bad mate 4 out of 5 even if the orders wrong!
Close Awesomeaman! Nearly a full house but for one. Thanks for watching! Liam
Tywin can NOT be on top. Roose Bolton is also pretty bad
Varys biggest weakness is the exact opposite if little fingers strength. Everyone suspects him. While baelish is convincing and has u trusting him, varys has to fool you while your on guard. He has the nickname of the spider, but despite this he still fools many people, including Tyrion in my oppinion
Another Brilliant video guys !! Always a pleasure to watch your vids. What about a top 10 or top 5 for something star wars ? I know you used to do a lot of star wars maybe something like top 5 clone captains/ commanders maybe ???
Thanks Hayden! Nice to see you in the comments as always. Next video will be star wars but not a listicle (though Thom does keep pushing for us to rank the prequel jedi council) We're taking a look at the crossguard lightsaber like we did with Dawn. We will keep trying to get our toes wet with Star wars and LOTR don't worry! We just get way more thrones requests lol. Thanks for watching as always matey! Liam
@TheFandomeClips that sounds like an awesome video !!! Can't wait for it
19:32 Imagine if the guard was fast enough to kill him and word got out. Lysa Arryn would jump on the Stark team in no time.
Fucking love your analysis man, thank you for making tuff content for FREE
Cersei definitely is number one her intelligence is unmatched jk great video as always keep up the great work
You had me for a moment 😂 - Thom
She was able to figure out that the washerwomen were shrinking her gowns, even Varys could never
She played it better than most. It took a looney on a dragon to take her down.
Nobody saw the burning of the Sept coming at all.
Sure, many of her machinations back-fired to tragic effect for her but at the same time she outlasted everyone except Tyrion.
@@aidanmagill6769 Her father never taught her how to play the game so she started playing a completely different one.
The real thing to consider here is those who come to power through slow meticulous planning and strategy and those who rise to power in an instant through pure ruthlessness and knowing how to play the immediate circumstances of current events. One strategy is not superior to the other. It just depends on whether you are more ruthless and daring or more patient and cunning in your quest for power.
I love watching videos like this. It makes so sick that GRRM will never finish ASOIAF. Biggest case of BB in media history
😂 thank Pennzilla, I agree and what's worse is that unlike Tolkien GRRM has apparently ordered any unpublished manuscripts destroyed upon his death so if winds doesn't drop before he does, we'll not even get that. Thanks for watching! Liam
@TheFandomeClips
When Dickens dropped dead in the middle of his final story, he at least had left enough for people to construct the second quarter with strong outlines for the third, but unfortunately nothing for the fourth. Louis L'Amour dropped dead with several books in progress, many with such extensive notes that his son was able to keep publishing books for another two decades, and the same was more or less true of Robert Jordan. If his series does not complete, he will fade into utter obscurity and forever be a might have been.
Ive always said the reason GRRM is taking song long with winds of winter and songs of spring is because the end of the show is basically what he has planned i.e bran becomes king john kills danny etc etc. So he saw how much people hated bran and all the endings of GoT so he panic re wrote the entire last 2/3 of winds and scrapped spring entirely and is trying to tie everything together with different endings even though bran being king isnt bad they just did it badly in the show.
Another banger, Game of thrones till this day is still strong.
I think Tyrion(at least the show version) honestly has the potential to match Little Finger and Varys where Tywin failed because he comes from a position where he is viewed as "weak" and he not only acknowledges it but uses it to his advantage. If not for Tywin's obsessive hatred for him, if given the proper recourses and time Tyrion likely could have crippled at least Little Fingers plans (Varys' plan in the show still up in the air given the whole dragon thing). His outsmarting Little Finger, Pycel, and removing Sir Janos from the equation almost immediately when given temporary authority as stand in Hand of the King speaks volumes to his abilities. I also think the show having him give a very obviously false suggestion to Varys regarding the marriage to Theon is a way of him showing respect for Varys's ability to play the game and demonstrating that he knows Varys has no need to work with someone like Cersi
Olenna didn't inherit her position as matriarch of House Tyrell, she was originally born into House Redwine (which, although also a noble family and hence privileged, is way weaker than House Tyrell). She obtained her high position by deliberately seducing the head of house Tyrell (a story she tells Margaery about)
Id say Varys weakness is that he is human and tries to save people who maybe valuable but can honestly ruins his plans such as tyrion or ned
I definitely thank thats a factor of his character, he's certainly one of the more empathetic players, his speech when he kills Kevan is testament to that. Thanks for watching Tristan! Liam
A bit of foresight and proactiveness from Ned, who hasn't trusted the Lannisters since Tywin declared late & had the Targaryen children killed,
could have won the day with the political marriages of his kids. Surrounding the Lannisters with
Firstborn Son Rob, to Margery Tyrell, uniting the North with the largest standing army AND biggest food supplier in the kingdom
Firstborn Daughter Sansa to Renly, to further connect himself to Robert without connecting to the Lannisters and also gaining the Stormlands
Bran to Shireen Baratheon to tie them further to Robert, his true heir, and more importantly The Dragon Stone Fleet.
Then Arya to her cousin Robert Arryn(Sweet Robin) to secure the Vale with a strong-willed and intelligent Arya.
Also a bit on heard of but betroth Jon to Robert's 1st favorite bastard Mya Stone to give Arya 2 capable loyal companions to help her in the Vale.
Finally, betroth Rickon to the Freys, and encourage his most loyal houses(Manderley, Glover, Umber, Tallharts, Karstarks, Flints) to do the same,
The Reeds do their own thing and are looked down on by everybody but the Starks so no one will question if they don't do it too,
and Howland might have the Dornish connection all sown up with the Daynes.
Well before any of this begins it should be OBVIOUS to every Northern lord how important the Twins are to the defense and offense of the North.
With his alliance to the Tully's through his marriage with Cat. Ned should have also talked to Holster about remedying the Blackfish's slight by betrothing Edmuire( the heir is a more prestigious match than the brother anyway) to Desmera Redwyne.
Then the Starks could have almost single-handedly kept the realm together.
Pycelle was slapping those Tyrell cheeks too!
Vary’s biggest weakness, along with Littlefinger was crap writing from D & D the moment the material from the books dried up, as they seemed to forget how the characters even functioned and turned them into idiots. I personally hope the faceless man theories are cannon as would explain a lot, regardless if that seems a lazy way to fix the problem. Least it saves 2 great characters entire ark from being shat on from a great height.
The words you are looking for are "canon" and "arc".
Sure, Varys is undisputably presented as the best player. He's also the most subtly built character. But in the show version, you have to acknowledge something weird : he fails pretty much everything he tries. He fails to poison Daenerys. Then he fails to prevent the clash between Starks and Lannisters. Then he fails to save Ned. Then he fails to maintain Tyrion in place as hand of the king. Then he fails his spying operation on Littlefinger, then fails to block his ascension. Then he fails to prevent the alliance between Tyrells and Littlfinger. If you count last season, the deal he strikes with Martells and Tyrells proves largely useless. He fails to bring Jon Snow to proeminence, then dies by stupidly revealing his preference to everyone, which really doesn't sound like a master of whispers. But, well, season eight. The only two things he actually achieves are the capture of the wizard, wich is never heard of again, and the evasion of Tyrion, which proves quite messy and costs him his place in the council. All in all he appears like a beacon of reason, cunning and completely right, but powerless in the storm of madness that rises up in Westeros. So, as a weakness and having only the show as reference, I would say : not crazy enough. A light touch only takes you so far in a context of a full trottle civil war.
Sansa Stark, went from timid little girl to queen in the north, exceptional achievement in such a cut throat world.
Weird thing I found a few years back: Pycelle is played by the same actor as the bad guy in The Last Crusade.
No way 😳 I love that film and have never made connection Warlord. Seven hells hes got some good acting chops thats for sure. Liam
He's also the Imperial Commander in the AT-AT Walkers in the Battle of Hoth in Star Wars Empire Strikes Back lol
And Admiral Ozzel plays Hitler in the Last Crusade... :p
@@TheFandomeClips
Wow, I actually did not know that…kinda see it now ofc 😂
why is robb stark held in such a high regard he never met the lannister in a fair an conventional fight and his tactical and strategic movement was largly carried out by the blackfish and aided by his dire wolfe, so the only things that were really done by him was deciding were to go and in this he was assistet by his bannerman. so if you combine this with his bad political moves what makes him so great
I think varys' biggest weakness in a way is his lack of protection. As stated by him, he's got no one really to protect him if things go wrong. He has to tread very careful because at any point, cersei, tywin, or joff could've decided he'd be more trouble than he was worth, and his head would be on a spike. However, it also gives him massive respect for what he accomplished given this
Finally someone recognizes how good Pycelle was at playing the game
It's just a shame the later seasons couldn't capitalize on the intelligent writing of characters like Littlefinger and Varys in the future and had to find some ways to kill them off quickly.
Video idea
Who is the best mercenary in GoT?
Bran is that one kid on your block that had all the Nintendo magazines full of walkthroughs
I think there is a argument for Ned being a great player. He didn't do it by scheming or threatening but by sticking to his principles. He sacrificed himself and ended up with his son ruling six kingdoms, his daughter ruling the North and the winter he was so worried about being defeated. He might not have wanted to play but there is a argument that he was the most successful. He died but he would consider a sacrifice of himself to be a good price for the happiness and security of his descendants and kingdoms unlike many of the other player who would only see a win as benefiting themselves.
I genuinely think Varys' biggest weakness is that he's the best at playing the game and everyone knows it. He got so good that kings essentially appointed him to play it for them. And now no one trusts him. All his moves require so much more work because even the people he is trying to help don't trust anything he says or does. He is the Spider, the Master of Whispers, and everyone expects traps in his offers. His biggest losses came from people trusting others when they should have trusted Varys. So he plays the game, and even has to put his allies in a position where they have no choice but to accept what he's giving them.
To the show's defence, it's arguable that it makes sense for the game not to be as important in later seasons as it was in early ones. When you have fire-breathing dragons and ice zombies knocking on your door, political manoeuvring probably isn't going to be viewed by anyone in that situation as a priority 🤔
Its still a factor in that though (Cersei not joining, allowing the threat of the white walkers to weaken Dannys armies etc)
- Thom
Top 10 list of players In my opinion.
HM- Kevan Lannister, Illyrio, Mace Tyrell (if his playing fool)
10-Pycelle
9-Davos
8-Stannis Baratheon
7-Melisandre
6-Roose Bolton
5-Margeary Tyrell
4-Olenna Tyrell
3-Tywin Lannister
2-Lord Varys
1-Littlefinger
You gotta make the inverse
Also great video and here for algorithm
👀 we’re gonna have a bigger list in that case 😂 Thanks for the support! - Thom
Vrays’s greatest weakness is that his skin was fireproof.
In all honesty for the show his weakness was the bad writings. He was a great character until the they had to write their own stuff and made him just do tons of dwarf and eunuch jokes with Tyrion.
It’s kinda like spending months on a perfect painting, then your cousin shows up with their kid who when your back is turned puts paint on their hands and smears it all over the painting ruining it, then your cousin gets hostile for you yelling at their precious innocent little angel and cares nothing of the damage they have done
You guys do a vid on best/worst character portrayals on the show(s)? We love lists and there's 2 right there.
In the books I thought Tywin was interesting, but cast him as Charles Dance and you have one of the coolest villains of a generation.
Video idea(s)
What if Danny stayed in Essos, gained control of the continent and went to war with Westeros as a whole to take back the throne?
Or who would be able to beat the other in full scale war Westeros or Essos?
A united Essos would definitely win. The entire Rhllor fellowship, warlocks, & Asshai witches. Dothraki, Unsullied, & multiple sellsword armies. Qarth has a hold on international trade. The iron bank of Braavos. The combined wealth of hundreds of thousands of slain Masters in dozens of cities. And Yiti.
In my opinion little finger is still the best player. Varys have at least to fuck ups deny and being threaten by Jamie to free Tyrion but everting in the books at least goes according to plan of Peter so I think that he really is the best
I would say Verys' biggest weakness is his lack of a future. He is very secretive and subtle but that can work against him since he won't be continuing his bloodline. If he goes down, I don't think anyone could pick up the pieces for him.
Varys relies on being on people’s good side too much. If Stannis had trashed King’s Landing, if the Tyrell army had been just one bit delayed, there was no way he would have survived ‘a truly just man’. No one is really loyal to Varys either, so anyone nuts enough to shoot him right then and there ends his play decisively.
but Varys knows that. and as long as he bends the knee, Stannis shouldn't hurt him. even Tywin says, "When people oppose you, serve them steel, but if they bend the knee, help them to their feet."
16:29. I suspect Littlefinger wouldn't be as threatening if he'd started with Tywin or Olenna's resources. It's the near-nothing background and humiliation from it that laid the foundation for who he is and how dangerous he can be.
I agree, almost. I'd put Baelish 1st. He lost because he underestimated characters who had magical abilities.
Top 5 Smartest
0. Bran Stark (magical)
1. Baelish
2. Varys
3. Qyburn
4. Tyrion
5. Sam
Top 5 Most Powerful Characters
0.1 Night King (magical)
0.2 Daenerys (magical)
1. Tywin
2. Olenna
3. Cersei
4. Jon Snow
5. Baelish
Top 5 Fighters
0.1 Night King (magical)
0.2 Arya Stark (magical disguise)
1. Jamie Lannister
2. Mountain
3. Brieanne
4. Hound
5. Jon Snow
Although I consider Jon to be a good swordsman, I can't place him above Hound based on what I know.
Honorable mentions should go to Daenerys, Tyrion, and Margaery.
Daenerys (before the show went south) built an unstoppable empire almost entirely from nothing.
Tyrion is arguably one of the best strategists and tends to take avenues that don't burn bridges.
Margaery flawlessly executes the Tyrell strategy and adapts brilliantly in the moment.
Ollena is more complicated in the books , on one side his death ( and his family ) happen only in the show , just like his moment of weaknes with Tywin, but on the other side she stay in the game the least , she return to Higarden before Margery arrest and she we never hear about she again
Definitely, her contribution to the houses success is a lot more merky in the books Flavius as Mace isn't an idiot and a genuinely competent player himself. Shes definitely important but how much isn't as clear in the books. Thanks for watching! Liam
just based on the popular quote "in the game of thrones you either win or you die" we can't put dead people on the list considering more than 5 people with a claim to the throne have survived. Those who died didn't play well enough, just by definition.
also, PLEASE kindly do an episode on Ned Stark's unheralded competency at the GofT. i myself tend to think of him as militarily competent, possessed of great common Sense, and literate enough in the game to draw a few key inferences (ex, r+l=j=dead j, therefore gtfo of Dodge, and he promptly does so), but coming into the Snakepit at the turning point was doom for him. but if he's savvier than that, i would LOVE TO HEAR IT! cheers! ✌🏻
Olena also married in to the Tyrells despite the fact that it wasn’t the planned marriage. She’s been playing the game since she was young, she didn’t even inherit much.
After learning more about the symbolism and mythology in ASOIAF I wish the show focused more on the prophecies and heroism rather than the “Game.” The universe isn’t “A Game of Thrones,” that’s simply one book, one aspect, of the whole universe.
Tywin wasn’t playing, he was the game
I believe Varys’ weakness is that (if I’m not mistaken) he is a eunuch. And if that’s so then he cannot produce an heir. There’s no legacy for him to build from his bloodline. All his masterful playing of the game is ultimately for naught in the end at least in that regard. But I also can’t say that would be considered a weakness as much as it is just general bad hand. He still played pretty much everyone masterfully the whole time.
That's the thing about game of thrones you have to play if you want to live and when you play ether you win or die
The thing that doesn't make sense about tyrion...
1) his loyalty to his family since they hated him and tried to kill him since birth
2) why he goes to support joffrey and cersei since he knows the power is temporary and no one will listen to him
3) why he betrays deneyrus. His past and experience in kings landing should make him support cerseis death and kings landing burning.
Tyrion is an expert with people. And stannis is technically his brother in law and stannis doesn't care about titles. If tyrion could prove himself useful then imagine what a tyrion and stannis combo could accomplish.
Sir Davous. He has survived more then 1 war. Has served more than one king. With no actual great fighting ability, no Army, no big house money no big land. He manage to end up on the small council.
If George ever finishes his books it would be hilarious if Littlefinger’s justice came not from Sansa but more from Olenna’s grave😂
Also Littlefinger currently possesses Harranhal and if he plays his cards right he could break the curse on it (leading to prosperity rather than his predictable upcoming death)
Though I imagine he's a lot harder to quantify with how little we truly know of him/his intentions; I'm curious how you'd evaluate/rank Bloodraven as a player in the Game of Thrones?
Technically in the books since the only evidence of Olenas involvement is Littlefingers confession he could be lying to make Sansa afraid to ask for help since she would be afraid to trust anybody since anybody but him could betray her according to him.
new fandome vid lets gooooooo
Yeahhhhh Boiiiiiiii. Thanks for watching my ill tempered garden ornament! Liam
Great weekness of Varys is his blind love to Illyrio and Young Griff. If they played a stupid game he cannot stop it. Dany had the dragons. If he was not able to unite two targaryn factions his plans will fail.
I think that's ultimately where his plans will come apart, too much stock in been able to deal with Dany. Thanks for watching! Liam
Top 5 most honorable list?
(Throwing Ned a bone here)
Obviously Balon Greyjoy he is on a different level
Varys' weakness as a player seems obvious to me: In a world with very real magic, refusing to tolerate it, even to your advantage, puts you at a serious handicap. It plays well in the Robert-era, when magic is seemingly "asleep", but it's hard to scheme your way out of Drogon's mouth or a red priest's assassin if you aren't ALSO willing to resort to the occult.
I would say that refusing to back Stannis in the interim would be a point of that in action. Stannis follows the Red God, so he's not even worth considering. Even though Stannis would be quite capable of squashing the current civil unrest and putting off the war for a little longer to better fit the timetable. You can't tell me Stannis wouldn't start ANOTHER civil war within the next decade, especially if he tries to squash the Faith of The Seven. That way you don't have to pull the Young Griff trigger so early.
Even if you think that's a stretch, it's a matter of "refusing to play the cards you're dealt" and players who do that, like Ned (the Ur example), don't get to win in the end.
I thought that was the whole point. YG is going for the throne too early. the original plan was to marry him to Dany
Imagine if Tywin would've thrown all his "love" and support behind Tyrion. How much would that have changed the story if he simply granted Tyrion Casterley Rock? Definitely one of my biggest "What if's" of the series. Not to say it would have led to ultimate victory but it definitely would have been an interesting curveball.
Varys’ biggest issue is he doesn’t have the balls to make big plays (pun intended)
Pod- he didn’t have to pay
Game over
Stupid sexy varys, his weakness has to be shown writers and king Bobby b deserves a shout out even if his method to the throne isn't as subtle, love the video guys
Hey Kyle great to see you in here as always! We had a section that shouted out Tyrion and Bobby B orginally but it got cut when the length started getting out of control. But we basically explained why Tyrion and Bobby are too good at the game to make a worst players list but just not quite good enough to hang with these behemoths of politics. I think Bobby might be a tad underrated as a player when he can actually be bothered to try, before he got super apathetic he seemed to have pulled the realm back together quite well despite the civil war that he'd started 😂 thanks for watching as always mate! Liam
The book version of Doran Martell would need to be at least rank 5, theres still a good chance for his plans to adjust and bring success to the Martells
My problem with him is that he is to passive.
Doran is the guy in a club who sees a girl and starts planning evrything from there wedding, number of children and design of there gravestones... just to never speak to the girl in the first place.
Doran made it into the top 10 when we were in the orginal planning stage but like Roose Bolton we just don't think he can make the cut for top 5 despite been a good player. Thanks for watching as always TW! Liam
Just gonna say Bronn did very well for himself actively and came from sell sword to lord paramount of the reach and master of coin (for some reason ) and lord of highgarden diffrent attempt at playing the game of thrones but did astonishingly and didnt die
Tywin has been a better player over his whole career than either Varys or Littlefinger.
But both of them are currently in their prime during the books.
In Pycelle's defense, he was seen through by outsiders. People who did not live their lives in King's Landing and didn't have to play along with the stupid games.
Varys biggest weakness is that the little birds he relies upon are are fragile as a post-book show story line
Bran & Tyrion are clearly the top 2 (if we go by the show)
Bran went from a useless crippled to a sorcerer to a king.
Tyrion went from the laughing stock of the land to the hand of 2 Kings & the Queen of Dragons. He was even a kin slayer
Theirs a cut scene where you can see Pycell speak normally
Tywinn may have thought he did what he could in regards of opportunities that came along, but he didn't. Had he played everything right lannisters would rule everything by now.
1. He failed to remove Joffrey from power or even better make sure he didn't get to rise to it to begin with. He knew the danger and how much of a pain in the ass it would be for him. Killing ned stark being the first, forcing him to send tyrion to kings landing as hand of the king to keep them in check.
2. Failed to realize that tyrion is his greatest asset.
Or, maybe more the fact that he refused to even acknowledge him or his skills in the first place, only giving him the bear minimum. In any case, if he had acknowledged tyrions wit and resourcefullness within the game, there would be 2 equal giants capable of tearing down continents.
3. He was blatantly ignorant to cersei and jaime. Even tho he knew.
4. He didn't beat cersei enough during her upbringing
5. He didn't think anyone would scheme, pick up arms, betray or in any way be an actual threat towards him. Not even his small council. Dude was so feared by all that he thought it impossible that anyone would be stupid enough to cross him.
? How would beating Cersei solve anything? It would only have made her worst and find a way to try and off him probably. Knowing how impulsive Jaime is and how blind he was for her at the time, he may just have followed through with it.
@@hi-ls6lt That one wasn't meant literally, but disceplin her and raise her better. She could and would have been better to handle had she not been bratty and entitled.
@@andreasul2608 That would require Tywin not filling her head with arrogance and brutality. It's fundamentally against his character.
The biggest weakness for Varys - you already mentioned it - Pi.
Math is hard.
Starks. Their bloodline lives in the show. The rest perished
Didn’t start as the best player but at the end the best player is Sansa. She is the one person who got what they wanted at the end. She maintained alliances and used who she wanted to use and got the throne in the north.
Tywin for sure. He only died to a random overly erratic and emotional reaction from his son that no one in there right mind could have seen coming. Random act of emotional violence.
Anyone could have seen that coming. Tywin treated Tyrion like shit for years and then tried to have him executed in a show trial.
New Fandome vid!!!!!
I feel like Littlefinger has no real apparent motive yet so I don’t get his deal.
Aha! You can see how he’s amassing power though.
Books -
Hes Lord Paramount of the Riverlands
Protector / Regent of the Vale
And he has Sansa (heir to winterfell with no jon snow, bran & rickon)
He’s got things going, whilst the Crown is infighting / dealing with Faegon at the crownlands + Euron at Oldtown 😅
@@TheFandomeClips yh playing a blinder, but at what angle