Jon Taylor on Mother Enmeshed Men, Covert Incest, Part 1 of 2, May 13, 2021
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024
- In this one-time-only free webinar, therapist Jon Taylor discusses and answers questions about Mother-Enmeshed Men (MEM), along with emotional and covert incest. This session was live via SexandRelationshipHealing.com on May 13, 2021. The second half of this session, with Jon answering more questions about MEM and related topics, is scheduled for May 27. Part 2 of this webinar can be found at this link: • Jon Taylor on Mother E... .
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A sibling acting aa a proxy or agent of the mother or father is rarely addressed...
They're groomed as golden
Super good point!
I'm married to one but I was stronger than she and won the battle. She was widowed when he was 5. I believe that the epidemic of fatherless or disaffected/absent fathers is the root cause of enmeshment of boy children.
There are always anomaly’s 💪🏿.
Baby girl said NOT my house!
How did you manage to do that plz ?
Yes, please suggest and share how did you do it? I’m 1 year into marriage and FIL passed away around 5 years back. However, MIL has always been this way to my husband, or her surrogate husband. There’s an unmarried elder SIL too who’s quite bossy, dominating and abusive. My marriage is at the edge. Your input would be helpful. 🙏🏻
In my case, she was married to his father Nd then she alienated them. Point being he could have had a father if he didnt have this selfish mother.
Scary Epiphany: You are describing my husband. Omg. I feel awful after I’m so angry with him about his mom, because I can tell he feels terrible that he let me down. He feels so guilty about his mom but it’s like he can’t help it. I just could not understand why he couldn’t say no to her even one time about something that mattered so much to me. You described him and his mom and what we do perfectly.
It almost sounds like enmeshed men can’t be trusted to know what they want… What if he tells me what he thinks I want to hear, and he’s actually unhappy.😬 I thought we were very happy (until his mom moved closer) and I think we both love each other very much. This just sounds like a much bigger issue than communication failures though.
After our last argument, he agreed to go to therapy with me to figure out how to deal with his mom better. I can tell he is skeptical and just doing it for me, but I’ll take it. Haha. I hope it helps. I’m going to search for a therapist that specializes in enmeshment. Thank you. Wish us luck.
Evil Tofu So did the therapy work?
Yes it’s a much bigger issue than communication.
How is it going? My boyfriend doesn't see any of this. I sent him a different video but now I am the enemy.
@@BethLove333I'm left because of this. They don't see. They just turn to you and say you are criticising his family. They take it personally because they are enmeshed. He thinks he is his family. That's it. So when you criticise his family, he thinks he is criticised. And defense uprising. Endless fight. If you set boundaries to that narcy family, he might leave you, because his narcy family will exit you.. He will do what they do. Because he can't think or do against his family. Because he is enmeshed. They are together. You are new. You gonna join the dictatorship if they let you in, or you gonna be exit.
Do you have an update on if therapy helped?
This is deep 🌿
Christ
I wish men would watch you more than Andrew Tate.
I don't think a man has ever watched Andrew Tate. Just a lot of adult-shaped boys
@MPHswayze I know what you mean but those sheeple have children. I have have even seen mothers thanking Andrew Tate for guiding their sons. Mothers from cultures where MEM are the norm and people flaunt their emotional incest....
Well said.
My husband is enmeshed to both his mother and father and he is their employee. I’ve lived a lonely 12 years with this man. I just now the past couple of days learned what this is. I’ve said over and over to my husband, “it’s like your family is a cult in itself”. My husband is utterly blind to it. 😔😔😔
My husband almost has the attitude, “how dare you try to come between me and my parents”. I’m demonized in his mind. I’m tired. This is exhausting.
@Jessica D, I have said the exact same thing to my boyfriend of 10 years...."It's like your family is a cult!" Mine is also enmeshed with both his mother and father and I always come in 2nd place in his life. His loyalty lies with them & he absolutely cannot see how dysfunctional his family is. It's beyond frustrating! I feel your pain!
Cult is the most accurate word, it operates according to rules that are hidden to the rest of the world that ties them together
I feel you... my MIL actually pulled my grown ass husband into her lap Nd told me in front of his whole family, “ he is MY baby not YOURS.” Me nd my husband call each other baby or babes...his sister,father Nd brother in law thought it’s adorable.... it’s been 4 yrs of marriage nd I still feel like an outsider with my husband Nd his family...he doesn’t open up with me or make an effort to get closer to me bcoz he is made to feel guilty for giving attention to his wife... we can’t even get intimate coz she just starts video calling him telling him “u neglect me, don’t talk to me enough.”.. that woman has a radar system pointed at us across 2500 km, I tell you..!
Welcome to the club. My father is 70 and he's still enmeshed with his original family, especially his mother.
My husband's mom completely destroyed my marriage to him. It became all about her needs. His mom would rely on him for all of her marital problems, she was a constant complainer about how her and my husband couldn't get a break! I think she was in love with him to be honest.
I've seen weird cases like this too.
My husband is just now getting out of it, himself. 16 years, I've been trying to explain how unhealthy his grandmother's and mother's attachment to him was. He would get calls from either one of them for stupid things they claimed to need help with, forcing him through emotional blackmail to leave me and the kids alone at home. He is now setting boundaries and even going no contact with them. Things have been getting better since.
I totally understand because I’ve been going through the same thing.
I would say your husband ruined it. My mom TRIES to ruin mine with my husband but he WILL NOT engage with her efforts of enmeshment. She was successful with my EX husband but she is unable with my now current husband because he just will NOT engage and triangle with her.
A lot of women are SO JUDGMENTAL IF A MALE CARES ABOUT HIS MOM! Yet they think nothing if the daughter is friends with her mother! A lot of women NEED TO STOP BEING SO INSECURE!
Thank you. Mother-son enmeshment isn’t spoken about enough. 🙏🏽
I watched this video to make sure I didn’t do this to my kids. But then I realized my husband is mother enmeshed. It’s subtle but it’s there. Thank you for sharing this knowledge with so many.
Good on you for wanting to check yourself! That’s the first sign that you’re not that type of mother ❤️
I'm 31 and I had just started dating a never been married 47 year old guy who told me he feels like he has to "protect" his 70 something year old mother from his 70 something year old abusive father.
So I broke up with him and he threw a fit. Like as if I'm going to stick around to play second fiddle to his relationship with his "poor helpless defenseless" mother.
I don't even talk to my own parents anymore. F that. Those people are all kinds of messed up and I know darn well to stay away from them, and apparently this mother enmeshed guy too! No more Captain Save-A-Mom's for me!🙅♀️
Good ridens....he is better off without you....
Good ridens....he is better off without you....
Good ridens....he is better off without you....
GREAT ! Stay away from them ! Best decision and I love it. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
@@KwstasMakariou His mother was a grown a$$ woman. If she was complaining so much about her husband then she should divorce him.
This is hands down the most accurate description of the relationships between not only mother enmeshed men, but of any male/female enmeshment of any kind.
This was so informative and eye opening, not only as the wife of a MEM, but as a mother of two sons and a daughter, I am now aware of certain behaviors that I need to be mindful of with them, as well. The cycle of abuse is not going to continue in my family. I don’t want my kids to suffer as their parents have. Thank you so much for all that you do to help people, and to educate them on this topic that is not as widely discussed as it should be.
My husband is completely enmeshed with his narcissistic mother. It's literally like he's having an affair with his mother. He was living with her at 45 years old. His dad left her when my husband was 12 and the mother assigned the role of husband to him. She continues to call and text him multiple times each day making demands, threats and issuing ultimatums. And he drops everything and runs to her. He hides his communication with his mother and lies to me about it. I can't take this. It's breaking my heart.
It’s very sad!! I know the feeling! I called this out to my selfish mother n law on yesterday. It hurts that I feel like the other woman
I’m sorry for what you’ve been through and now I’m going through a divorce yo my 50 year old husband that has left and moved back in with his parents. They’re both narcissistic and his mom has acted like the wife before I came into the picture. He has tried to blame me but I refuse to be the blame for the Incest type relationship he has with his parents.
My husband and his mother do these exact same things and she LIVES with us! Worst mistake of my life 😢 I feel like it’s always the two of them against me. I am miserable in my own home and never feel safe. It’s soul crushing..
This is my exact story with my boyfriend, it’s so painful and lonely! I started a TH-cam channel because of mine. We just broke up
I hope you are healing and doing better! ❤
@@katreuthbaby get it together and GET OUT. He is terminal.
Excellent video, doctor Jon! 👏👏👏
My father is almost 70 years old and he still is a mother enmeshed man. His mother controlled our whole family since we were born. All his life he executed orders from his mother, one of them was to be cold towards us. His mother - my grandma abused me as a child and when I mentioned it to my father, he started to hate me and he applied me the silent treatment for the last 5 years. In our last fight he said that his mother was perfect and that anyone who criticizes her is out of his life, even his own children. So, I ask myself isn't this a very serious mental illness? It is not normal that a 70 years old man who has his own family and kids only loves his mother.
Yes this is very serious. See how he’s been manipulated and conditioned? Oh how I’m so happy I can control my own mind.
It s very serious. Watch videos of Sam Vakhin. Your father has a shared fantasy with his mother.
Dr. Joe Dispenza always writes in his work, that on average, by the age of 35, it’s set in stone that our personality is made up of the same thoughts, habits and behaviours we’ve had up until that age, and it will always be that way from that age onwards.
People will RARELY ever change unless they become conscious of the fact.
It’s why so many of our elders in life have never and will never change, sadly. Thankfully my generation (Gen Z) and others are finally breaking this cycle. Slowly but surely…
@@SovereignKing what did you do to break that cycle? Thank you! And also, what is gen Z? 💕
@@22sobex
Actually… I have to correct myself, I’m not Generation Z (clearly wishing I was!) I’m a millennial. Basically Generation Z are all the people born between 1997-2012 time period. The next generation is ‘Generation Alpha’ and so forth. I’m considered a Millennial because I was born between 1981-1996.
But a lot of people I’ve met from the Gen Z time frame are so more aware of all of this stuff. Even the younger kids growing up now. Fortunately they’re so much more in tune with their emotions and knowing what boundaries are etc.
And to answer your question about me breaking the cycle, first of all… I’m no saint and I’ve spent the last 4 years working on changing myself. It’s really not easy and I definitely have my off days. The core thing for me though was going no contact with my family. Completely estranged.
Cannot tell you how healing it was to do that. I’ve been trying to rebuild my identity ever since, because I realised I never really had one. I spend most of my days being conscious of how I talk to people, how I behave and most importantly, how I think. I spent 30 years being negative, skeptical and judgemental of everyone and myself.
Some very hard habits to break, but so far, with the work of people like Dr. Joe Dispenza (who I previously mentioned) Adena Bank Lees, Lisa Romano etc. - things are changing for the better!🙏🏽
My husband is so enmeshed with his parents... both. Father uses money to control. Mom uses her "love". It's really sick and sad. They have made sure he never individualized and his true self is hidden for all eternity. Needless to say he suffers from many ailments. What is repressed will be expressed in dysfunctional ways. Please share ways to protect a child with family member/grandparents like this. Grateful we live across an ocean from grandparents. They ruined any chance of happiness for their child and for our child's family. They're narcissists. They will not smother, coddle, manipulate my child. Over my dead body! This needs to be called out and brought out into light. Listening to this gave me chills and the creeps. Sick to my stomach. They all make me sick to my stomach. I know the rage he gives me is all.for his mother and because he is her lap dog/slave he unloads it on me... but I know where it belongs. Karma is real. I have one child and I am the Firewall!!! They shall not pass! Sure, they don't see themselves as the problem. It's of course me... but I stopped giving a damn about their opinions and release their son to their control and manipulation. I take care of myself and child. Make sure my needs are met by friends and family and make sure my son has good friendships, healthy boundaries, and is out of their dark energy radius. Till the day I die!
Trust me I know the feeling! The killing part about my situation is that my husband is an alcoholic and drinks constantly to surprise the pain that his selfish mother has inflicted on him. It’s the most sick and disturbing thing I’ve ever experienced. Then to add insult to injury, she uses the Bible “To honor you Fathet and Mother” to manipulate him. It’s so baffling and disturbing! I feel the utmost sorry for my husband. I’m really considering divorce because we live in two seperate places
@@missmarymack3457 Girl just dump him
This dynamic really bleeds out to the extended family too.
My partner almost completely escaped the enmeshment, but my spousified brothers in law have shown how some covert allegiances exist that have essentially prevented any genuine closeness or friendship whatsoever.
Im a daughter that had to go no contact. It was too much dealing with her. My grandfather wasn't in her life and my grandmother wasn't much of a mother so me and my brother are supposed to be the parents. I think not. She lived her life i will too.
Good on you I say
Can you talk about sex in a marriage with an enmeshed man. It’s usually a sexless marriage. It destroys a marriage.
Yes, this needs talked about more!
A man who is enmeshed can not have normal healthy sexuality or intimacy because in his subconscious he feel he is betraying his own mom, so it lead to 3 solutions to sleep with a women first to see her as an object so to treat her as a doll not humain in this case he maybe be sadistic or zero emotions towards her, second solution for him to pay sex works, 3 addiction to porn and the last one is to be non sexual at all Asexual wish my answer give you some clarity ❤
💯🎯
I once met a man who was enmeshed with his mother in this way. When we had a date he once had to cancel because she threw a tantrum because something happened in the house and he had to help and fix it. I felt that she knew he was dating someone and this got worse when we were closer to commitment about 2-3 months into dating. And then I realized he couldn't commit. And I stopped seeing him. This was sad because he seemed to suffer but was empathetic and couldn't set boundaries with his aging parents.
Commitment takes way more that 2/3 months! That's unhealthy
15:44 hit hard. My current partner is in total denial of this and I have finally reached my limit.
16:48 damn
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This was the MOST insightful and relatable video ever on enmeshed men. Thank you too bad my partner cant see it for himself.
Same here. Mine does not see it and I am the enemy. Did you leave?
@@BethLove333 i did, and I am currently dating a man that is independent and does not rely on his parents approval and has nothing but pure intimacy with me, so refreshing.
@@7saany wow!!!
I discovered mine was at work wirh his mommy massage porn.. im so glad to be goinganywhere where but here. It will never change. Shes such a selfish greedy woman. In her 70s and still cant settle for her husband, shes got to have everyone elses too. Its gross and disgisting and they just wreck lives all along the journey. I hold my ex accountable too. Like someone else said he may as well crawl in the coffin with her.
Great video! Thank you for sharing❤☀I met someone who is currently dealing with this and now I get why he does not even want to be in a relationship with a woman...wow!
A lot of young men who look at pick-up artistry content could really, really benefit from this instead. I'm off my soapbox now -- thank you so very much for what you do!
This is such a good point
My husband protects his mom- has never talked back or hurt her in any way. Me however, got raked over with 30 years of secret porn use. I get the pain, the deceit. He doesn't want to hear any of this. He even read Adams' book.
the porn addiction is the result of the enmeshment.
why leave this comment and continue to put yourself through the trauma and mistreatment. do you plan to leave? I will pray for your healing.
This is amazing info thank you so much. This dove tails in very well with Sam Vaknins take on narcissism, hustrionic mothers, and emotional incest.
Between bith these sources of info i finally feel as if i mostly understand the issues and trauama i have experienced. Its cathartic, horrifying, and humiliating at the same time. I both love and hate my mother.
I haven't got thru 10 minutes of part one and I'm in tears of the realization after 30 years of marriage to a man who was so enmeshed with his mother - or mother worse than him, I'm not sure. She talked like a baby. Dad was the alcoholic, and my husband was the savoir, hero, surrogate, workaholic. I lived a very lonely empty life and started to drink. Now that we're divorced I no longer drink and can finally see thru all his sugar coated deception to cover the family dysfunction and WHY. I hope he can acknowledge the lack of connection we had and the detached way we lived. You have enlighteded me so much for direction of healing for me.
I'm really enjoying this! Thanks Dr. Jon.
Takeaways:
1. Enmeshed men like myself are great caretakers, but commitment scares us to death!
2. On the journey to emancipation it can be normal to start saying "fuck you" or "fuck off" to everyone. You just want to make sure you're not projecting mom pain onto your partner!
3. Jon himself was enmeshed, and still has a good relationship with his mother. The key is boundaries. Boundaries are not a wall. Boundaries show you where to enter.
Thanks Jon!
Never great caretakers, but only caretakers for their own mothers.
@@cynthia-jo1zz You are right
Do you find that any or most enmeshed men do not identify with "guilt and obligation" feelings? For example, it seems as though my partner "wants" to spend all this time with his Mom. I feel it has interrupted our relationship because when he has said "no" (honestly only one time in the past) she cussed and yelled at him and hung up- simply because we did not want to do one aspect of a family trip with her. Anyhow, I feel she demands that we spend time with her too much and when we do spend time, she always says something mean to one or both of us. She does not treat us like adults and controls everything.
My partner I think never can marry me because it seems he is married to her- but he says I am "ripping him away from his family" and I just don't know what to do.
This is, sadly, an incredibly typical situation. We suggest looking at Ken Adams website, www.overcomingenmeshment.com/dr-kenneth-m-adams/, and also purchasing a copy of his book "When He's Married to Mom." Both are great resources for you.
@@SeekingIntegrity Thank you for your reply and resources. I am going to get the book now. I think there is nothing I can do now, besides cause more harm by staying.
Technically he is married to her. I feel your pain
You talked about men with mothers whose partners didn't provide them the kind of support and emotional nurture they needed, but I'm curious about mothers that did/do have emotionally supportive partners. A dynamic where the mother almost controls the father in terms of the emotional relationship, and everything in the household transpires to her whims. Are those enmeshed men different from the dynamics you discussed here?
Even all of the disclaimers about he not wanting to be anti mother it's just fully reinforces this taboo that our culture has that even while talking about abusive mothers he has to insert this disclaimer so people don't freak out. If not all mothers are saints in fact many of them are guilty of this and so much worse but because they are mothers they are not seen as sexual or abusive predators. It's almost like standing on the outside of a cult looking in this cult around mothers that our Western society has.
THIS.
Not only western cultures have that perspective
Thankyou. You have really described what my partner is like (ambivalence , trying to please everyone, etc), and how frustrating thjs feels as his spouse. Thanks so much for explaining this. Our situation seems kinda hopeless. Hes now living with his mum...i just couldnt bear to go through this all over again, and recently told him so. i really wish he could have listened to this years ago!! I feel happy for your participants though. Really happy to hear there is some hope and good outcomes for emeshed men and their partners.
I’m going through a divorce with my husband because he loves his parents more than he loved his wife. He wanted the divorce and moved back in with his parents at 50. He said I don’t understand the love that he has for his parents snd I don’t. He has treated his mom like the wife. I’m really sad and he has tried to put all blame on me but I know better.
@@karenletcher1565gross I know
Thank you Jon, this all makes perfect sense to me now. All my life I have resisted a mother who controlled me with guilt. Philip Larkins poem ‘this be the verse’ portrayed it well for me. My parents truely did fuck me up.
Regarding the question about cultural differences: there is some really interesting research from the field of Self Determination Theory, which studies intrinsic motivation. SDT researchers consider “autonomy” a core human need that is necessary for optimal mental as well as physical health and for intrinsic motivation. They were challenged that “autonomy is a Western value, not a universal human need, and therefore autonomy doesn’t matter to people from Eastern collectivist culture”. In response, the SDT researchers went back to the drawing board and carefully studied autonomy in the East - they were able to come back with findings showing that autonomy is just as important to human wellbeing in the East as in the West, and they could demonstrate that regardless of race or culture, people thrive in the presence of autonomy and suffer in its absence, regardless of whether or not the individual consciously considers autonomy to be one of his personal values. Pretty fascinating.
Good to know. I'd been wondering about this. As an immigrant, you're dealing with so much at the same time, and it's rough to figure out how much is dysfunctional family structure, how much is inherent personality traits, how much is cultural/political.
Thank you -- these are just the search terms I needed.
As someone who grew up with two enmeshed parents, this is only too familiar. There is also helplessness, parentifying, addiction and the denial runs deep.
I’m enmeshed with my parents, in my 40’s, and have spent years serving them - it’s a living hell.
Break Free!!
@@chris-mp2pyI’m the same. I have broken free at an early age but the guilt placed on me for my betrayal has never stopped. It’s a total mind fuck.
Thank you for this, both myself and my partner are enmeshed. I wonder if you would speak of being enmeshed and having an ageing parent, this heightens the guilt, as my partner worries about moving out and he’s moms health will deteriorate (she 86) When the parent has health issues it can make it more difficult to separate, if you are their caregiver. Also on researching enmeshment, I see a strong correlation with having a narcissist parent, is that true? Thank you.
Great question!!!
I didn’t live with my parents when they were dying, but I talked to my mother every day and saw them very frequently. I felt a great deal of guilt for my anger at the enmeshment and ended up with an ongoing leg spasm due to stress that made it almost impossible to walk. It only went away after they died. My brother, who lived closer to them, had little contact while I felt it was my duty to do what I could to help them. I knew that if I cut off from them, particularly when they were sick, it would have haunted me the rest of my life so I made the choice to do the thing that would cause me less long term damage. My parents were not bad people, but they were pretty damaged from their own traumatic childhoods. In a lot of ways, I might have benefited from cutting off contact when I was younger, but by the time they were dying, it would have been cruel to them and given me no benefit. That was what was right for me, but every family is different and my feeling is you have to look at the pros and cons of the choices you have available to you and try to find the one that will cause the least pain and suffering.
Yes , one parent is narcissistic. Or both can be .
My mother was the narcissist. She had 4 kids . I'm the 2nd oldest , 1st girl. My life was a living hell . I've stayed single and I'm 43 . That will never change. It wasn't until I came across this emeshment topic that I started to connect the dots of my commitment issues & not just romantic commitment, every possible commitment gave me extreme anxiety and the feeling of being TRAPPED. It all comes down do my mother . She used us all for her own personal reasons and here we are adults. 2 brothers and a sister. Sister and brother are twins . That brother is married but has had severe martial issues. He is on the verge of a divorce. His wife is a narcissistic. He married our mother. I just started delving more into this emeshment subject the past wk as I have been dealing w a friendship that triggered my anxiety and panic which I realized was connected to being raised by a narc . In doing my continued healing , I'm REALLY starting to understand my younger brother!!!!! ... my older brother is the narcissistic as is my sister . I've been surrounded by them my whole life . I was the Blacksheep and I'm the only one who separated and broke that dysfunction. I'm back in the family . I see the dysfunction so clearly . my sisters in laws got to have the mothers they never had yet I never had a mother . My mother made my sister dependent on her so she still lives at home and has never left home. She is single & has zero clue that she has her own commitment issues which stem from being raised by a narc . . We moved in together in 2018 my sister and I, she walked out on me 6 months later and went back home . Painted me as the wrong one to the family and yet living w her triggered all my childhood shit bc she is my mother ! ..
So my older brother and sister are the narcs .
Younger brother has narc tendencies but his wife is the narc . I've had my own issues w her . Hence I get triggered by her bc she is my mother ! ...
Alright, I rambled but I hope I gave you some clarity and insights !
My mother judges my younger brother for his shitty actions but she is the one who programmed him/us to be who we are /were. the narcissist doesn't understand boundaries or feelings or anything but THEM. My mother USED everyone to have her needs met & be liked /keep her image intact . & I got outcast & shit all over by her & all my siblings/family bc that's what the barc does - triangulation. I was outcast bc my mother didn't want to deal with child molestation that happened to me . So chose the perpetrator over me , his victim . Made me the problem and issue and had everyone wrapped around her finger .
Interesting thing is my younger brother is having martial issues and his wife has totally made their younger daughter dependent on her. using her to fill her own needs. Something happened the other night when i was over their house . I saw so clearly how she uses my niece for her own selfish needs & I've been very triggered ever since. Bc I see myself as a child being used and abused but if I dare try to bring it up - I know the rage that will come my way . I've already experienced it from her in the past and narcs Don't take Criticism.
Hi, im a 28y old enmeshed man of a single mother who told his mother literally to go f*** herself because pushed him too far, because of her unreasonable demands... never had a gf ...alcoholic and porn addict... years of therapy. I wish I would have found you sooner...
Good luck sweetie. You'll find someone. Find Jesus/Yeshua first and find yourself. Been healing with my man for many years because of our childhoods. It would have went a little quicker if I was alone for a bit.... Seriously
Love ya. Let it happen. Good luck to you! I'll be thinking about you and others
This world doesn't matter. Your mind and heart does :)
What I think is weird is how very little these kinds of creators and videos will touch on the fact that this becomes full-blown sexual incest sometimes. My mother made it very clear that I was the man of the house and we were forced to help her in the bathroom take nude showers and baths with her and very often saw her naked. I can remember sexual abuse from a very young age she treated her children like toys or dolls that she owned to do with as she pleased. This kind of person has very little moral values beyond what they feel and want to do. She tried to keep us prisoners in the house with me she failed and with my brother she succeeded . It's incredibly frustrating to come to these videos seeking support or identification and to see things like emotional incest to be the only focus. I get that it's the biggest taboo that nobody wants to talk about but it happens much more often than people think especially from mothers to their sons. It feels like we are silent victims in this community who don't really get recognized very often because of how disgusting and off-putting the reality that we lived is for most other people. I struggle with complex PTSD and a lack of trust in intimate and emotional relationships and I have never successfully had a long-term relationship. It's incredibly difficult sometimes to get through the stress of daily life with this kind of shit on your shoulders things have gotten better but I am speaking up more now than I ever have at 35 because I just don't see enough representation.
Hey man, I noticed no one had replied and felt compelled to say something and recognise your pain. I never knew such things really happened and I'm sorry your mom did this to you. Not that it matters but mine was the total opposite, no affection, but she was at least a dutiful mother who made sure we were safe and healthy and never hungry. Hugs were non existent but I thought that was normal.
I imagine your moms behaviour was very damaging to you. How do you relate to her now you are an adult? Do you speak to her at all or have you cut off all contact?
I came here out of curiosity but I do understand what you mean by the stress of carrying this around with you all the time. I was abused but my cousin and it has ruined my life.
Anyway, i hope you don't blame yourself as I did, because it is very damaging to your self esteem.
@@wingnut71 I have been no contact with my mother since I was 17, I am now 34, but that hasn't stopped her from trying and literally stalking me. It's not about love with parents like that, it's about control and ownership, getting what they want from the relationship even if it means hurting you and crossing all of your boundaries. I say I feel the weight of it because I am reminded all the time about mothers, and their status in our society. I genuinely do not know what's it's like to have a healthy relationship with either of my parents, it's a weird life for sure. I am free from most family pressures and expectations, but I have always had to be hyper independent. I got help for sexual and narcissistic abuse and after 2 years of therapy I can say that I am feeling the best I ever have, but it's still super fucked up to remember that my mother took my innocence and will probably never face justice for her crimes.
@@IgniteThePathWithin Your right man, that is super fucked up she will never face the law for what she did to you. I guess female privilege is alive and well. I'm glad you are feeling a lot better after therapy. Still can't quite get my head around what she did to her own son. She must be the most evil narcissist. You are strong to survive that. The worst woman i ever met was my teacher when I was 8. She was a real nasty bitch who enjoyed mocking me in front of the class and getting them to join in. She didn't touch me but it was emotional abuse. I complained and she must have been reprimanded or something because one day when the class was leaving she told me to stay behind. She took me into the store room so no one would see her talking to me. I began to get really worried, but as far as I can recall she just asked why I didn't like her and why I made the complaint. Almost as if she was unaware that what she had done was wrong. Anyway, nothing compared to what happened to you, but I confess it still affects me and occasionally I have fantasied about what I might say or do to her if I ever met her now. Just as well I can't remember her first name so have no way to find her. Best leave it in the past. Sorry for venting. It's nothing compared to your mom, I know. I really hope you can heal from this and have a good happy life. Other people can really fuck up can't they, especially when it comes to sex. There is so much shame around it. I sometimes think human reproduction needs a full overhaul to become fit for the modern world.
I think my ex thinks his mom is sexy and fun and she led him on and then put him in the friend zone. And he is soo desperate to be her dancing monkey again. I hate it. People have even thought they are a Couple! He knows this! And hes very defensive about her and her ridiculous behavior. But if i say anything I am sick! Its so bad.
Can I hire you to have a talk with my husband? At this point he needs the basics broken down to him by a professional because I’m tired.
Hi. The best way to reach out to Jon is through his website, www.whitepinerecovery.com/. I encourage you to contact him directly through his site. ALSO, he has a workshop for mother enmeshed men August 24-27. If that one is booked, there is another in September. See: www.overcomingenmeshment.com/workshop/mother-enmeshed-men/. Best of luck to you.
3 yrs ago my ex was realizing this enmeshment, he recently reconnected with the regular slew of lies hate and vitriol and its even worse now! Just go. He spent those 3 yrs longing, yes, longing to be in her company. This is life long!! Theres no cure. You are talking yrs of undoing. I have been here too long already, we only have one life, even if i am not looking for love, i deserve sooo much better than this. And so does everyone here.
What about the 55 year old man who is divorced 9 years now and his mother died two years ago. he hasn't done work b/c he thinks it's over since she is dead. She was a raging narc. He has alcohol use issues and relationship problems, identity problems, etc.
im 53 , a mother enmeshed man, single , no children, never married, relationship problems, identity problems, etc, I feel lost, .no relationship, its been 3 yrs now, but did go 13 yrs when i was younger, no gf, mother was a raging narc too.
That’s so sad… it sounds so suffocating
@@KYRA_FX yes thanks, mother was very controlling, she is almost 90 now, I'm 53, I'm an only child, so someone has to babysit her and do elder care, so it falls on me unfortunately. She left me some money though, and her house, for my troubles. She slightly came around at the end, dr adams in his book 'when hes married to mom' says once they get older unless they are sociopathic they will feel some guilt once the end it near for their misdeeds. .
“We tend to surround ourselves with dynamics. We have the tool kit for”
I just watched Bad Moms 2, and all I could see was how bad the enmeshment was on these women. 😮 and how I didn’t have the verbiage before to describe what it is.
I tried to talk to my husband
We are separated
He lives with his mom
I heard a voice that sounded like his mom and heard his voice
I heard bed things
When I got out of car I heard a jump rush to be off the bed sound 💔
So much history of odd and stressful and weird things
I suffer from mother-daughter enmeshment. This video was super valuable to me. Thank you so much for talking about these dynamics and giving us tools we need to do better.
Glad you are here and can hear this. My partner is enmeshed to his Mom but I see the same type of relationship with his Sister- the Mom is overbearing and always stays at her house, they essentially bought a house together, and if the daughter ever says her Mom can't stay there the mom yells and cusses at her. Her fiance also ended the relationship because "she is different when she talks to her Mom" and the daughter hasn't dated since...
Same, the first moment I tried to communicate something important to my mother, she just wrote me out. I no longer EXIST to her. She's the victim of my ''abuse''.
Some of this is RIDICULOUS!!!! Most women NEVER EVER FEEL ATTRACTED TO THEIR SON!!!! A lot of this is BULLSHIT!!!!!!!!
It's not bullshit if you are living through it.
Would you consider having a workshop for mothers who don't want to hurt their adult children with enmeshment?
Great question. I will ask Jon for you and will get back to you once I hear from him.
@@SeekingIntegrity Thank you.
My brother has lived with my mom for 20 years +,,,, he has never had even a girlfriend and he is in his 50’s!!!!
WoW 😢
I want the drop in group!
I don't even know what a drop in group means lol
But I live in Australia.
If any other guys want I could start a weekly zoom call.
We have lots of groups online at various times of day. Some might work for you. sexandrelationshiphealing.com/your-own-sexual-behavior/weekly-webinars/. I'm glad you're reaching out and looking for support.
16:20 yes my mother was constantly sexualizing me I would never react I didn’t even really understand what was going on there was a lot I barely had any time to figure out but I knew I would figure it out I was like if I can survive this I will make many people happy and I have and that’s all that matters and I’m not the only person that that matters to that’s what society is it’s about paying it forward like what you’re doing here right now creating this incredible work for us and the time and energy that you put into looking into our comments which you know we don’t expect because we’re just so grateful for the validation and outlet
The enmeshment cycle never stops Countless times I have worked extremely diligently & hard and been really good at recordkeeping and succeeded with barely any resources and then these criminals come in and break the law all over again expecting no one to care and ruin my work and ruin my life all over again my whole life since I’ve been born has been dictated by criminals I really want it to fucking stop desperately
Wow! This is great information. Thanks for sharing! :)
I thank God for directing me to the videos I’ve just watched. It really helped me to understand my husband and his parents and how my marriage failed and that it wasn’t my fault. I just pray that God opens his eyes to the truth.
Wow!!! I'm blown away by your advice.
Hearing this from someone who has experienced this... Thank you.
Have you informed your mother about the emmeshment system?
I've watched 40 minutes so far.
He did not mention that and I believe that it is not necessary to talk about this with the Mother, it is more necessary to emancipate and establish your own boundaries.
Thank you for your videos! What if man is in his early forties and lives with his mother who is what I believe in her mid seventies? They also have a dog together. To me it feels like he is married to his mother and their dog is their child. He prioritizes having a walk with his dog to seeing me after work and I feel like the last item not only in his day but also sometimes in his week to “check off”. I love his dog and even joined him for many walks in the first month but then this stopped (is that maybe a way of distancing himself so that he and their dog do not get too attached?).
He was homeschooled for most of his childhood, which could explain why he is so enmeshed with his mother. His father died around ten years ago.
Does living in this age with his mother mean he just cares for her because she is obviously getting fragile or that he is enmeshed? Or is this a mix of the two? Because I know men in their forties who deeply care about their mothers and help them but who do not live with them!
We are in the courtship phase, seeing each other for 2.5 months now. But I do not see any development, this week we saw each other only once - I visited him on the shooting set of a commercial he is directing. He told me he does not want to have sex before he feels he is ready for the next stage of a budding relationship, which sounds great in theory. But when after two months of the courtship phase we had (great) sex, what ended up happening is that we started seeing each other less!
He calls me every day to say hi, which is better than nothing but I feel like he is incapable of truly letting me into his life and taking the next step. And when he promises to call me, he usually in 90 percent of the cases does not call, which relativizes his every day spontaneous calls. Also he might open a message from me with a question or an emotion and not reply to it. Planning to meet up with him at a certain time is almost impossible with him, it worked only I believe in 30 percent of the cases. Also things he said he wanted to do with me in our free time he ended up not planning😮 and not doing. There was a funny instance on a social event I invited him to where he offered to look for a place for my handbag. How funny was it to see him a few minutes later eating the food at the buffet instead of actually doing what he said he would do 😅
The only nice gentlemanly gestures from his are driving me home (on his mother’s car😂), taking over the bill in the restaurant on the rare occasions we do go out. He is also attractive and emphatic, otherwise I would have already stopped seeing him.
I am also in the film industry, working as a quite successful film executive and have tried to support him in different ways be it by introducing him to people or helping him with invites etc. But this is not valued. As mentioned before, he is a director, his mother is a theatre director so she is also involved in his scripts and work… I haven’t met his mother yet. After seeing him for a month, he told me, he suggested to his mother to have a walk with their dog and me and she declined. After one little argument we had about me canceling a few weeks into the courtship phase a date because it ended up being at 9pm and not at 7pm (the initial time we had set), he told me that his mom asked him if he is sure he wants to see me if it already starts “this way”. As if I was to blame for the date to start way too late and being upset about it. Also why is the mother so involved in his dating life??
I would be super curious to read your interpretation of his behavior… Also do you have a recommendation for me what to do next, should I try to see him for more weeks and month to come to look if he changes or is this a dead end? I want to have children within the next two years, I am 38 so I do not want to waste my time :) I feel like he is still in big parts a kid and unlikely to be a stable, reliable partner and father.
this is a huge amount to unpack and absorb.
“Break free from your mother‘s perception of your dad, form your own opinion of the guy. You can hate him.
As long as you hate him on your terms “
Hi! It would be great if there was a list for a women's support group (enmeshed women). If you have any idea or info about it, please let me know.
Dr. Ken Adams has enmeshment workshops for both men and women. See: www.overcomingenmeshment.com/workshops/. I don't know of any free support groups for enmeshed women, but Dr. Adams or his staff may be able to help with that. Also, you can click the "Contact Us" button on the SexandRelationshipHealing.com website and suggest starting one. (That email will go to Tami, who handles new support group ideas.) Best of luck to you.
19:00 This happens with other doctors as well you are way ahead of me everything I posted you just said it now you were in the future you just described everything that I told you you know this subject very well in detail
Principle of attraction over guilt & obligation ™ ☑️
Your work is incredible thank you so much
What about father enmeshed men. No one talks about this 😢
My Boyfriend of nearly a decade is one
His dad a Vietnam Vet Alcoholic jerk
He finally cut him out... He had to.. Theres much to the story on how he affected my boyfriend, even our relationship
Just compare videos to yourself and find what feels Right to you
Very helpful
daughters also emeshed w mothers
Yes
My man is sister enmeshed
Can enmeshment/emotional incest begin in adulthood? Can this happen when a child as young as ten has a higher IQ than one of their parents?
We're doing another enmeshment webinar on January 12, 2023. This would be a great question to ask at that time. It's FREE. Info available at:
sexandrelationshiphealing.com/blog/special-free-webinar-understanding-mother-enmeshed-men/
Discuss a daddy’s girl. When a daddy’s girl marries the father daughter- wife have to triangulate with the son-in-law or cheater.
Is there an age (of child) where the child system and the parent system can cross over in a healthy way?
I don’t think so. A parent should always be the parent and never the child and vice versa.
Mid-twenties, perhaps.
My mom pished me to be my Dads
My brother, my Dad
Wow, my Dad is like that dad that won't have a separate relationship with his child (son in your case, but I'm a woman). If my mum is cross with me, my Dad is cross with me. If my mum forgives me, he'll talk to me again. But If I stand firm in my interpretation of events, I'm shamed by my dad for ''hurting mum''. I've tried to explain it to him but he said 'loooooooooooook, i just don't want to really,.............. go there''. Yupp.
It's hard to undo all the damage but not impossible..... the more I start to separate the more crab in a barrel mentality..... you can't be an actor because? Can't be a lawyer because? Can't have your own family because? Isn't that the natural order?
9:42 it blows my mind how are you and all the other brilliant doctors on here highlight oh not only these points in our brand but facts and records and paperwork and photographs and criminal records that we all have access to I didn’t even know until the past 48 hours that there was a word and measurement for what was described for a lot of the crimes committed against me that is so interesting so it’s like a whole other field of study so it’s like all of you doctors on here give us our lives back because those were our experiences that is how we were treated a lot of people who don’t have a family and who didn’t have one like what you described which is healthy which I always knew was healthy which I was taught by healthy friendships and people in my life was healthy they don’t understand there are many consequences and then simultaneously these people are not it’s not legal for them to destroy you because you made all the right decisions and you got out and you’re successful then they turn into Alex Jones and then you have to you keep getting abused by and they attract all these pedophiles and crazy people to you oh my God and then you’re like OK narcissistic personality disorder has a lot of these criminals yes enmeshment and then they invite strangers to do the same thing to create an illegal criminal Alex Jones version of you and drink from the same pool of your blood that your criminal family drink from and then you know my story is a dime a dozen so do the police yes yes yes enmeshment Criminal neglect on top of all the other things the rape the child rape the burning the abandoning included I had a massive package of crimes committed against me
You are so handsome by the way I love the way you did the video. Thank you very very much for the information. Good job!
What if all of that happened when I was 17 after a crisis kn family? Is it still covert incest?
10:00 yes you and your wife are healthy for suffering how your son severed* some of their needs from you but then after you let yourselves mourn those* fears then you celebrate the fact that your child can be independent so if one day something happened to you or your wife or both of you they would be able to survive on their own and cultivate healthy relationships to survive yes
27:00 yes thank you Pro social individuals are real they are as you describe that group as a call coyote culture that is the system of democracy we live in that’s why it’s beautiful you are really great at understanding a democracy😊 thank you for knowing that even in the face of crime that healthy people work even harder to stay healthy and that it’s not easy thank you for knowing that that mindset is real I’m going to attempt to publish some thing that maybe you’re going to say just the process of work and keeping your mind busy and defending yourself and especially defending other people and knowing that the present adds up and that that is what your personal history and your reputation is taking all the good things from the moral ethical people who follow the law who are in your life who influenced you realizing that many people fall through the cracks and that sometimes things have to change and systems have to evolve in order to be able to take care of your needs and then simultaneously take care of the needs of making sure we have a healthy criminal system where we can treat all the diseases that we are born with that we can treat and cure that’s really what a human being is as you know Yes there will always be real problems like an injury from running or some kind of surprise problem in your environment that you have to manage just keeping as healthy and strong and prosocial as possible
Whats worse is when the mother and father are divorced but still massively enmeshed.
I am sharing my story on my channel! This explains my family so well, and my boyfriend’s
So good 👍
Please help me with this one, i have a partner of 18 months he is loving and nice but enmeshed with his mother. The mother hates me, has tried to break us up ,asked what his intentions were with me - i cannot go there and have only met her twice. She is now dying of cancer - has 2-12 months left. He has refused to go away on holiday with me, is this normal. I dont want us to be on hold for what could be up to 12 months but if i give him an ultimatum he is going to feel resentful and forced
Leave. Even after she's dead it won't change. He is a lost cause
Does she really have cancer? Thats what Id want to know. Ever heard of Christmas cancer?
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51
Sad stuff
Wow, this is opposite dynamics of book, HOLD ONTO YOUR KIDS, by Gabor Mate. There is addiction on his family too.
Gabor was speaking about younger children i believe.
Soy beard
The soy is strong with this one.
My son who is 17, over the last 4 years he has completely detached from me. Answers have become monosyllabic if he answers at all. Definitely no enmeshment going on, I was tiptoeing around him in fact. He raged at me when I asked him not to waste electricity, he had just emptied a kettle of boiled water and added cold water to boil. I asked him not to do that and he said stfu, stfu. I waited til he left and then locked him out and asked my brother to take him, but he broke down the door first. He is with my brother now and has been for 6 weeks. It's going well apparently. He's not gaming, raging, cooking at 2am. What would you advise I say to a boy who is, I think, an immature ''hero'' intimidating and aggressive as a tool to get his own way, but who can it seems follow a man's rules (I'm a single parent, no boyfriends, I have an older child too, I'm not enmeshed with my son. He's just too detached for there to be any enmeshment. I don't want that but this is not the issue here!. I only want him to be respectful and have enough humility to learn from my brother (how to behave, how to learn, how to receive guidance sometimes. Not from me! I wouldn't try).
Sounds like a gaming addiction. My grandson was like this when he was gaming heavily
There is nothing weird about expecting your children to be loving and kind when the mum was a loving kind mum.
Is there?
If you see your mum as a problem just don't engage. I refuse to engage with abusive adult children.
You sound like you didnt educate yourself
What a fucking joke lmao
You women need to stop watching this..you misapply this to your own situation do you can play victim.. watch "justpearlythings", got some great videos..
Sounds like you're the enmeshed man going into defense mode.
These videos are not just for men. It's for anyone who wants to recognize or narrow down possible relationship issues. Enmeshment can occur in either gender. My father tried to create an enmeshed relationship with me and I immediately cut ties. Back then, I didn't have the words to describe it. I was a new mother and he would try to use excuses to pull me away from my children, and when I didn't follow along, I was was guilt tripped.
😂😂😂😂 you need some help that’s for sure
There are a lot of women here because we need answers and validation that this is real problem with real consequences! You go watch pearly things...