Parent-Child Emotional Incest Creates Lasting Trauma. Experts & Survivors Explain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ก.ค. 2024
- INTRODUCTION
In this video, Ross Rosenberg, M.Ed., LCPC, CADC, and long-time friend, author, poet, and coach Rick Belden have a very intimate, vulnerable, and personal conversation about emotional incest and its traumatic effect on children. This is the third time that Ross and Rick have come together to create an educational, inspirational, and vulnerable collaboration video.
EMOTIONAL INCEST DEFINITIONS
"Emotional incest occurs when a child is forcibly required to switch care-taking roles with a selfish, immature, and pathologically lonely parent. Coerced to be their parent's confidant, 'best friend,' or pseudo-spouse, these emotionally imprisoned children suffer damaging attachment trauma. The hijacking of their emotional innocence and freedom will gravely impact their adult mental health and relationships."
"The umbilical cord connecting a newborn destined for emotional incest metaphorically reverses its flow upon birth. Parenting the parent while abandoning one's childhood in the process is a trauma that very few understand."
Ross Rosenberg, M.Ed., CADC
OTHER RESOURCES
Ross's book, "The Human Magnet Syndrome: The Codependent Narcissist Trap," and his full-length seminar videos available at SelfLoveRecovery.com addresses the impact of one's trauma caused by a narcissistic parent which plays a role in their choices for romantic partners and friends.
BIOS
Rick Belden is a highly talented poet, author, and coach who helps men and women who are feeling stuck get their lives moving again. For more information and to schedule a free discovery session with Rick, visit rickbeldencoaching.com.
Rick's "Motherspace" poem can be found at bit.ly/3toqK22 or in the "Poetry" section at rickbelden.com. His other poems: bit.ly/34USDp0. His TH-cam channel: / rickbelden .
Ross Rosenberg, M.Ed., CADC, is a globally renowned psychotherapist, educator, and expert witness, who is known for breakthrough contributions in the field of mental health, addictions, and especially, codependency (Self-Love Deficit Disorder™), Pathological Narcissism, Narcissistic Abuse, and Trauma Treatment. He is a keynote speaker, educator, and professional trainer who has crossed the globe by giving his one-of-a-kind presentations. Ross has been regularly featured on national TV and radio.
Ross's "Human Magnet Syndrome” books have sold over 150,000 copies and are published in ten languages. His TH-cam channel has amassed 23 million video views and 240K subscribers. He is the CEO and primary contributor of The Self-Love Recovery Institute (SLRI), where his educational and inspirational work can be found.
For more information check out his website www.SelfLoveRecovery.com, email his staff at help@SelfLoveRecovery.com, or find Ross on Facebook ( TheCodependencyCure), Instagram (@rossrosenberg_slri), Twitter (@RossRosenberg1) and TikTok (@RossRosenberg1).
#Narcissism #Codependency #SelfLoveDeficitDisorder #RossRosenberg #covertnarcissist #rossrosenbergcovertnarcissist #codependentnarcissistrelatioships #CodependentNarcissist #Codependent #codependency #codependencyrecovery #adultchildrenofalcoholic #selflovedeficitdisorder #relationships #humanmagnetsyndrome #rossrosenbergcodependency #motherwound #gaslighting #codependentnomore #inducedconversation #narcissist #narcissism #narcissistic #covertnarcissist #gaslightingparents #malignantnarcissism #observedontabsorb #malignantnarcissist #innerchildhealing #wolfinsheepsclothing #happiness #healingyourlostinnerchild #hitch - บันเทิง
I was shocked to STILL be emotionally sexualized by a mother who is in age 70s. You can have a normal adult conversation with these narcissists and then out of left field they throw you a shocking comment on purpose to trigger you into subversion, humiliation and infantilization. The trauma caused by these people never stops, even in old age.
Yes! so glad you posted this. Mine is 91! She is still emotionally degrading, disrespecting and inappropriate. She even still gaslights us when we ask her to refrain from making degrading comments....minimizes, etc. They definitely dont get more mellow ;-(
Yes!
Why do you even talk to them?
@@JenWIL641 I had to make an effort to see my 91 year old mother before she leaves this earth. I felt it was the right thing to do. That was 2021. I pray for her soul - she has been so cruel.
@@FreshGrey-pm4vw I can understand that. My dad has made sexual advances towars me but never did anything. I still love him and pray for him.
Emotional incest may not be overtly sexual (or maybe not sexual at all) but my experience with my narcissist dad always felt really “ icky” despite no overt sexual abuse of any kind taking place.
He expected affection and I was too young to understand the repulsion I was experiencing because it didn’t feel like a dad- daughter display of affection. I felt like a surrogate wife or girlfriend instead.
Of course I didn’t have the vocabulary to express such confusing complex degrading icky feelings. All I knew was I was repulsed by him and still he disgusts me to this day, multiple decades later.
Out of the multiple traumas of my childhood, including violence, the “icky” shit messed me up the most and set me up to be used and exploited by men.
“The truth will set you free” Alice Miller
I like Gloria Steinem’s version the most which is “The truth will set you free but first it will piss you off” Gloria Steinem
@@jaklumen That’s so awful. I’m sorry that happened to you. Thanks for sharing your story.
I totally understand and I feel like that’s what I’m going thru as well. My dad wants me to be there for him for everything, and I feel like he expects the companionship of a wife or girlfriend and I hate it. It makes me angry and I really dislike it. Trying to get away from it in my early 30s
Cutting them off and spending time alone to heal will prevent further damage from similar pathogens.
Thank you for sharing!
Thank you so much for this comment! That icky sense is something that I feel too, but don't feel comfortable sharing it because I don't feel confident that other people will understand. I feel fear about being invalidated.
"You taught me to wait my turn- forever." Wow.
That part really got me too
Yes, that's a tough one, isn't it? Thank you for commenting.
You guys share the same problems
I am over 50 and I missed so many emotional growth milestones. I am still waiting to start my family.
Same.
Suzanne, thanks for the heads-up for that impersonator. We blocked and reported him. Can I send you a signed book to show my appreciation? If interested, email me at help@selfloverecovery.com. You rock! :)
My family has generations of this tragic pattern.
I have 2 generations of this, as far as I know.
Me too
In my family too...
Are you all a victim
I HAVE BEEN LOOKING FOR A GIRL NAME DEE FROM UPSTATE NY. SHE'S WHITE AND CAN SAIL A SAIL BOAT. SHE WAS RAPED BY HER OLDER BROTHER
Glad someone is bringing some awareness to this. Took almost 30 years to realize I was engulfed in this type of family dynamic.
It takes time. I've just accepted it at 40 years old. Since always I was involved in her stories and drama with everybody especially with my father. The words she used was so destructive.
I hear you‼️♥️🌸♥️🌸♥️I'm 47♥️
It meant a lot to me to finally have a name for what happened. 30 years later. My best wishes to you.
@@johnm.184 Thanks.
I pray for you doing better and you’re happy and healthy with good friends and family 🤲🏽
Became like a mother to my own mother. She was with a narcissist for 18 years. I protected her instead of the other way around. Got to see far too much as a child. Became as an adult when I was a child. This has caused a lot of pain and physical problems. But trying to find ways. Had a hard time getting the right help.
So relate. My siblings believe I was the favorite. But at 5O is when I realized how I was emotionally shut down, and lost my voice, felt dissociated all my life! This is so insidious.
I experienced this now at the age of 37 understand
"You can't see me
and you don't know me
But you won't admit it
and you won't let me go."
These lines are painfully familiar to me. I would say (to make it closer to my experience)
But you won't admit it
and it's all my fault.
Another powerful metaphor is caressing with one hand while holding underwater with another.
Please educate your children on healthy emotional and psychological boundaries.
No such thing as boundaries, kids are property that the parents should be able to do what they want with.
This seems to be something that's especially common for golden children of narcissists.
woah i could see that
And parentified scapegoats
Children not only need to adjust to survive-they also naturally love their parents. Part of what they do as they make those unconscious decisions to give up their boundaries and needs is also a self-sacrifice. Our culture is rife with the message that self-sacrifice is noble, holy, good or significant and children hear that message too. There are so many unhealthy messages given to children from religion and our society that further impede their chances for healthy emotional development.
You caress me with one hand while simultaneously using the other hand to hold me head under water. That poem was cathartic.
I'm the daughter of two very damaged people, I can truly say that no one ever sets out to intentionally harm their own children (well, I know that was never my intention). However, I never developed skills in childhood that lead to being a healthy balanced parent and looking back, it hurts like hell that I've let my kids down emotionally, psychologically and physically.
I love my kids... fiercely... but I see how the dysregulation causes so many inconsistencies in parenting.
i think the fact you’re aware of it & can realize what happened is great ❤
I think malignant narcissists do intend to intentionally harm, including their own children.
yes they do intentionally harm their child, they are evil.@@Florence3121
Thank you for saying this. After losing my son’s father, I worry I have been relying on my boys emotionally. I am watching all these videos so I can stop any of this. I love my boys so much, I never want to hurt them. Sometimes my parents would tell my boys when they left to …”take care of your mom” and in front of my boys I would correct them and say no it’s not their job. I’m going to talk to my therapist about this.
@@motorcyclesandmakeup1297 you're doing the right thing by not putting that responsibility on your boys. There's plenty of online resources you can use. Social media can be used to help you channel your emotions. I'm sorry that your boys lost their father. That's so sad. Don't give up on ways of finding emotional support to keep that burden off your boys. You know they love you no matter what. And finding other ways to channel your emotions is an act of love and will enable your boys to be there for you even more.
I can really relate to the pregnancy scare story. My parents were both like this, you told them your story, and instead of holding space and helping you in the moment, they would tell you about THEIR story that's twice as bad and say something like "your situation isn't even that bad, when I went through this thing it was much worse" 😒 but they both used me as confidants and I know both their secrets and my grandparents secrets. So I'm carrying 2 seasons of emotional incest lol 😂 yikes. I could go on about my experience but it's pretty much everything talked about here. My father would compare my mother and I and make my mother jealous to compete with me.
Same. I used to think only my mom was the narcissist, but my dad was too
I would like to hear education on toxic boundaries. Narcissistic people put boundaries in place to allow their toxic behaviors be protected. However, they do not respect others boundaries. Toxic boundaries keep others in an unhealthy cycle.
wow, such a great talk! i love the point that the narcissistic parent can't find anyone to meet their psychological needs *due to their psychopathology* and they end up exploiting their child to meet these needs as a result
Signs of a Problem in Adulthood
Emotional incest leaves a deep scar on a child's experience of closeness and intimacy; specifically, they struggle in intimate relationships as adults. Signs of enduring this dynamic include:
1. Difficulty sustaining intimate relationships. Your romantic relationships start strong and may have great honeymoon periods. But they tend to decline quickly as emotional intimacy grows. You start to distrust your partner, feel insecure or trapped.
2. Disassociation, confusion, or taking distance from your romantic partner. You start to pull away without explanation. Sex becomes unsatisfying, even revolting. You may grow inexplicably cold, critical, become quick to find fault with them, or blame your partner for your discomfort.
3. Panicky responses to intimacy such as flight or fight. As fear grows, you may invent a reason to stop seeing a partner or ghost them completely. Sometimes you initiate fights to get a partner to break up with you. Either way, you are in flight from the relationship.
I've learned that can be tied to attachment styles...
true specially 3rd one... I cant trust anyone anymore
My dad would introduce me to his friends at the bar as “his wife”.
I would feel uncomfortable because I was a mini her since she owned me as a puppet and I looked the most like her because I was forced to mirror her.
My mother shamed me for having my period, developing breast, masterbating, liking boys, liking girls, and liking myself.
I have suffered with suicidal ideation my entire life. I’ve attempted 3x and never know when the abuser inside of me will end my life.
My mother would scream at me that I beat be financially independent and successful or I’ll be trapped with an abuser like my dad.
My mom conditioned me to hate my father and myself.
I was a golden child for her who then became the lost child when I spoke up against living her dreams for her and then became the scape goat.
I’m broken and I’ve been in therapy since I was 16.
Save the children
Mothers created arrested development bc the only reason to be a mother is because you can’t be yourself.
I remember some of mine. I can still see my mother standing by the wall heater. I hated for her to know that I was awake, but she always knew. And she would start in on me about my dad flying from the west coast to the south, basically to get away from her and her anxiety. She bemoaned from sunup until sundown. I did not know it was abuse. I just knew I hated it. It made me very sad, for me and somewhat for her. Poor mom--she was such a pill. Neither she nor my dad lived to be very old--he was 64--she was 70 when they died. I was always sad inside but wore a giant fake smile to Jr. High and High School. That was in the 60's. I still wear that camouflage smile. Makes me sick now. Am I real? Were they real? I feel like an entity. I always knew there was something wrong with me. I always knew there was something wrong with my mom. But I erroneously thought my comical dad was normal. Now that I know the truth I just feel sad. Thank goodness there are good therapist like you Ross Rosenberg. Now if I can just do the work and become somewhat normal.
You’re real and you’re love. We are do our best . I feel like I do this with my three boys a little and I’m going to work very hard to fix myself. I’m sorry you feel this way because I relate so much to it . Stay strong
Thank you for this video. When my mother passed away, I felt so guilty for feeling relieved. It has taken so many years, and becoming a father myself, before finally accepting that what she did to me was nothing but abuse. Even being a "good listener" and incorporating that in my field of work has been shameful at a deeper level, because that talent was formed through trauma.
When I realized that most of my endearing qualities are actually trauma responses and just attracted more Narcs. I got rid of all the people I attracted when I was unhealed. My PEACE is Pararamount.💜
you used it for good. Empathy can be born from cruelty
I wonder if it's a calling of sorts for most of the helping professions. The ability to understand
same here! felt so guilty for my childhood sexual abuser dying (mom) when in reality it was justice and peace happening
I was raised by narcissistic parents. This video really gave me some insight. I have a toddler that I want to raise to be emotionally healthy. I realize I have more healing to do. I don't want my child to be my emotional support. My focus is to have other soures of emotional support so that he is not exposed to the toxicity that I suffered from as a child. I'm so thankful for social media. I have no support system. I am a single mom. Social media allows me t get the emotional support I need so that I'm not dumping my emotions on my son. We have so much information available to us as parents. We need to use that to our advantage so we can be better parents.
i wish i could share this with my sister she and her 31 year old son live together. He does not work constantly depressed has no social life. If he goes out even for groceries she’s calling demanding an ETA
Wow this is an eye opener I dated men that I'm still friends with but I stopped dating them because they were so close to their mother one was 55 and still lived with his mother she cooked them breakfast every morning and catered to him it drove me nuts he couldn't even stay the night at my house he always wanted to stay home I cut him off because I told him 5 years of being his friend and he's not moving out that his mother is the woman of his life and he didn't have any room for me
Yuck, same. She called my ex 3-4 times a day and texted him all throughout the day. She would even tell him not to have sex with me. She’s a disgusting, sick woman.
My Dad would over share everthing. He would tell me so many inappropriate stories when I was really young. Treating me like i was his psychologist. Some things were about his sex life and my mothers sex life a person I held secret. He would blame transparency. But looking back it's a violation of my innocence and distructive of my sense of safety. over sharing is abusive and gross.
I appreciate this video, but also wish that you would touch more on the fact that not everyone who emotionally abuses their children in this way is a narcissist. My mom is not a narcissist but is codependent and I've been trying to set boundaries around our emotionally incestuous relationship for a while. My mom has been in therapy for a while after being with a narcissistic, abusive husband (my dad) and while she is healthy for the most part, some of these things still come up from the past when she would use me for her emotional needs because he had no empathy and isolated her. What I'm trying to say is, sometimes the abuser isn't an overall bad person, so when a victim hears about pathological narcissists doing this, we gaslight ourselves and think "Well, my family member isn't a bad person, so this must be normal." Good or well-meaning people can have toxic behaviors too
God the pseudo-spouse role that is sad and disturbing. 😣😞
My father has many women in his pocket. Two wives and a previous divorced women that he used to show me her picture to brag. Yet saying she was sick but I know it was because of him. Lol. i was his oldest daughter of his last spouse. My mother died and that’s when his calls just started triggering the f out of me and draining me emotionally and psychologically. I was smart enough to break it off before the damage was done. I blocked him for life and he still tries to get through me by using my brother as a flying monkey smearing me to my aunt. That’s when I learned about his pathological disorder because this sh*t is just crazy. I know it’s all to get his drugs of narc supply so I don’t care and I leave him to rot and dry out of my life. These vampires are RELENTLESS.
It takes a long time to understand wtf just happen and you just can’t have a good relationship with these people anymore. You have to cut-them off and save your sanity and dignity.
Forgive yourself that shame kills. it is on them not you they misused you so now god is saving you from their filthy hands.
Both my parents had so many wounds and needs they took from us kids and plus we didn't get what we needed.
😔💔☹️💔😩💔😢💔
This planet is so full of pure evil.
Yes. Much more than I ever knew or imagined.
Very powerful. I see myself in both roles. Being my father's caretaker and asking my daughter to be mine. Feel sadness and guilt.
It gets me thinking about the suicide of Regina King's son. Once I've heard of "how close they were", my skin started crawling. All I can think about is emotional incest when I think about that poor young guy dying by suicide.
Everybody feels so sorry for the mother, "oh she lost her only son", "they were so close", blah blah blah... And nobody cares how the guy himself felt, how he perceived and experienced his mother, nobody even dares to think what she did wrong as a mother. And since he's no longer here to tell, nobody will ever know, nobody will ever care, and all the attention is and will be on a "wonderful" mother suffering such a loss... never thinking that she has probably caused her son's pain and suffering.
The world is nasty
This makes me wanna puke.
Behind every death by suicide, behind every mental illness, there's a shitty parent, whatever form of abuse or neglect they used...
Aha
I can't really say what their dynamic was because I don't know either of them, but if you do a search there are a lot of pictures of him doing what a significant other would have done like accompanying her to award shows, etc. Now, a few times is fine but this appeared to be extremely often. I hope that he led his own life outside of his mother and dated people, etc. I understand that pictures on the internet are just a tiny snippet of what an actual life is like on a daily basis.
Interesting you bring this up bc i too had that inclination from how the media relyed it. I feel bad if we are wrong, but maybe we know bc we know.
Yo ,I love you
They also had "unconditional love" matching tatoos and were styding the Kabalah together. It's a big possibility that there was emotional or even sexual enmeshment. On the other hand, people in showbusiness tend to be part of the Hollywood mafia, its creepy cults, and and all the consequences it entails, including revenge murders deemed as "suicide" so who knows what happened.
How do you feel about this type of relationship with a mother as a daughter. The emotional incest that is definitely in no way sexual but the daughter as a best-friend-type but at the same time that emotional explosion if everything doesn’t go towards how the mother wants it to go. Requiring all actions & thoughts to go back to “will this make Mom mad?” And contemplating the consequences of if she blows up, even in dating as a 35 year old. But at the same time she does everything she can to help me with my child & babysit - but even the raising of the child is according to her timeline for him often and what she wants for him-even though these things are good it can cause constant feelings of inadequacy for myself because his schedule for his life is made by her because I work a lot and need her help often…but really not so much that i can’t set these things up for him
It's the same. I've also heard that it can set a woman up for same-sex attractions as well.
So can a husband do this to your children? I feel that my husband turned our daughters against me. It happened after we began fighting. He never was really involved with them but then suddenly became close friends with them when they became teenagers. None of my friends understand me! Ive suspected for some time that he might be a covert narcissist due to him fitting the description to the tee.
I am also the "bad guy" because I was the only person who tried to set boundaries for my family. Many husband refused to set any boundaries and makes excuses for everyone and everything. My sin was being a responsible mother and adult. My husband is a covert narcissist so I have to realize I can't change anyone or anything after years of therapy. It took me years to learn to say "oh well" and let go of the guilt and shame that I can not change. I now focus on me and what I want and need. Takes a lot of hard work so hang in there and always remember you come first. There is no bright and charming prince to save me. I can only save myself 🥇🥇🥇🥇
I'm so glad I found you again. I'm not trying to butt into your life but I want to share my experience. Of course your daughter's want to live with daddy so they can probably control him and get away with what they want. Unless you plan to strap them down 24 hours a day forget about. Just always be kind and open to them when they reach out to you. May take a long time but give them their space, attention and just gently be you. SOME TEENAGE GIRLS ARE SELF AND GREEDY. They will need you some day when they become women and not a bunch of mean bratty teenagers. Your in my heart and prayers.❤️
My ex did this to me (step daughter) and to his ex/her mother. The child has turned into a real manipulative brat because he gives no boundaries, and acts like her servant. Im fairly confident he is a covert narc too, my mental health really suffered from his lack of caring. I tried to put boundaries in too, but then the child thinks you're the mean one cos daddy will support anything she wants. Its crazy making and total triangulation, when you partner should be a parenting team. I couldnt work out a solution, we broke up over it as I was fobbed off in favor of the child getting her way. I often called her his mini wife.
Sept îles Québec Canada
Haha, ofc they can - he did that to my Mother, too.
He hated my sister and never spoke to her until my Mother and i escaped. Now he's 'best friends' with her and my little brother. They really really hate us now from all that he has told them. Like, we can't trust them not to stab us while we're sleeping at this point. Literally.
I'm really sorry about what you're going through. It feels so hopeless. They make you feel crazy. It's hard to understand. I understand and believe you, i do. But please, don't be too hard on yourself. It's not your fault. 💛 please, do look out for yourself and take care as best as you can :)
My 51 year old little brother is utterly enmeshed with my 82 year old mom. If I try to talk with him about it, he will literally get enraged and attack me. The situation is so sick. I feel like there is nothing I can do and he is probably going to die within months of when my mom passes away.
Exact same situation in my family. My Covert Narc Mom kept my brother so enmeshed (taught him zero life skills or how to get and keep a job, or how to be a responsible and accountable human being etc) that he has now given up in life and has accepted being her forever husband/baby. She turned him into a malignant narc who is a literal monster that will either implode or explode when she’s gone.
Wow amazing poem and beautifully read!
‘Caress me with one hand, hold my head under water with the other’
Thank you, Anna. I'm glad you found it meaningful.
Every point of experience was so familiar in this painful poem. If you will allow me a little creative license, In my case it would be holding my head under with both hands yet complaining why I was flailing and not supporting her even more to fill up her endless void of existence. I have never met a more miserable, unhappy, complaining person ever in my life except for having the misfortune to have this entity as a ‘mother’ After decades of being parentified and providing endless support at my own expense, where she would even brag to her friends that I “did everything for her”, I’ve had enough and have gone low contact.
I had a period of illness during which she kept on phoning and asking me if I was feeling better like a pretend mother would. As soon as I said yes, she started demanding that I resume doing things for her, much to my fury, realising she would never stop. When she asked why I wasn’t calling her every evening like she demanded and I complained of a lack of support in my life, she had the audacity to say in her covert narc weak, feeble voice “what have I ever asked you for” in true gaslighting fashion. Ugh
I’d be willing to share my story if you guys need someone to give another example. My case is both parents. My mother was an alcoholic yet held a high paying job and showed up at church every Sunday. So only in the evenings would she get wasted and my brothers and I had to parent her. Make sure she didn’t hurt herself, put her to bed, sometimes call the cops on her for her behavior. This happened to me starting at age 12. My father would then use me as his pseudo spouse and I thot I was caring for him and I felt like I was helping him take on non sexual roles my mother was lacking in. I was his confidant. He shared his sorrows with me and I just wanted to help him. I’m 40 now and my father is remarried and very distant. Says being around me brings back trauma for him. He used to be such a hero to me. Now I know what emotional incest is. Both my parents still play hateful games of one another with us adult kids in the middle. My mother lives in denial and fantasy thinking he still wants to be with her. So my father has zero communication with her. She no longer drinks. So now both my parents have their new lives out of the trauma they created for me and us adult children feel extremely lost in the relationships we each have. My brothers and I are all married but all three of us feel extreme emptiness and now I think I know why. Thank you for this video!
Looks like your father "used" you when you were a child, kind of like stealing
that’s what it’s incest- it’s someone using their power and your childhood need for attention and approval not to help you to develop but for their own emotional needs. it’s entirely one way and the adult never shows interest or emotional awareness of the child. the adults can cut off the kid whenever they want and move on with their lives while the child has been robbed of their own experience, having the adults experience completely overwhelm theirs. never getting what they needed of someone there for them they’re left empty isolated and unsupported as well as completely unaware of their own needs and feelings, and a tendency to go alone with what other people want and need from them. that’s very hard to fix.
Yes it is common. And bad. And can be recovered from if you write your real feelings about it or write about whatever is bugging you. You'll experience much relief.
The other guy dated he was actually cool but he moved right up the street from his mother she opens his mail and he was too afraid for her to meet me because he was too afraid that she could judge me because of my tattoos the fact that he was afraid of her had me cut him off I told him that's not healthy he goes to church with her every Sunday he sits for her go visit her a lot and I'm all for a mother's love and son but I asked him when the last time she had a man he said his father and that was over 30 years ago I said okay I see what this is you're her man and you know that you're her man and you don't want to hurt her feelings that was a few years ago needless to say both of the men I just spoke about are still single still living the life of their mothers definitely there was no room for me
Thanks, Ross Rosenberg. I was ready to hear this, what Rick Belden said about emotional incest. Unfortunately, I feel, it comes too late for my two marriages and by now, my grown children are alienated from me. I'm about 40 days shy of my 61st birthday. Often, I feel that I am just waiting around to die.
Rick's poem hit me to the bone. Very beautifully written and vulnerably read. The friendship between you two portrait the pinnacle of what a healthy and fulfilling relationship should look like. I would actually really like to hear from you on that subject, to help us sldd-community to have better relationships/friendships. It would certainly help me in getting an outline to healthily and fulfillingly relating to others. Cheers from the Netherlands!
Thank you for your comment!
So great you are putting this out this. Our mother groomed my brother to be a replacement 'husband ' - even to telling him literally what he liked and didn't like. Any disagreements resulted in her telling us she would just 'leave'. I was conceived , she told me , so that he would have a caregiver is something ever happened to her. When I resisted this plan and insisted on being myself and thinking my own thoughts , I was accused of - among other things - being jealous of him. My brother joined a cult to get away from her - and she managed to break its hold on him! It was amazing to watch her do it , and the trigger for her was that he told her that she was no longer his mother - that God was his mother/father - and she realized that someone else was influencing him and giving him a way out of her control.
This happened to me growing up. My mother confided in me telling things about her and my dad's sexual life....very uncomfortable!
At 16 yrs old I put a Stop to this. To much information.
My husband I know now, his mom did the same thing. But I believe she seduced him around the age of 14 yrs to have sex with her. His youngest brother looks identical to him now. I believe my husband fathered him????? She is 91yrs old and a malignant narcissist. A scary creature!!!
I’ve seen so much damage and toxicity in my parents as compared to others that I arrived at the decision at age 11 to not start a family. I’m now in my early 40s and I haven’t once regretted this decision.
The power of art is mesmerizing. I was listening the talk from an intellectual (and removed) perspective but when Rick read his poem a wave of old painful and chocked feelings took over. To know is important but to feel it's the one truly healing thing.
Thank you for your comment. I'm glad you found my poem helpful in making that connection with your feeling aspect.
Enmeshment is no joke. I knew an emeshed friend who committed suicide when their father had passed away. They had no identity of their own.
What's Worse, Is When You Can't Remember, What Happened!!!
‘To wait my turn forever....’ 😢
So true & so healing to hear you read this.. I just broke up a guy w/ the creepiest Mommy issues & he isnt the 1st.. so it is why a I'm watching this to exam My own role in the situation. Thank you
I’m literally crying as I’m watching this.
We can't change any person. Can only change ourselves, and sometimes, not even then. If my mother was a covert narcissist, which I believe she was, none of escaped being programmed with a disorder. One sister out of 7 siblings got a unique experiences. The loving, compassionate born again Christian mother was brutally mean and controlling of sister. None of us ever saw that side of mom. This year I asked sister if mom treated her certian ways that define a narcissist mother. She affirmed every trait then defended mom saying she needed it. It was in that moment I knew sister was brainwashed and was not only a victim, but has a disorder of some kind.
One phone call later, I was arranging a family gather in California. My family is the definition of a narcissist cult family who believe they are religious. What they don't know is it is a religion of covert mom. I cracked a joke. I told sister the family was going to have a laying of hands on her at the gathering. It was a joke to point out the fact we aren't eally Christians and would never even think about praying and helping anyone in that way.
Sister interpreted that joke as literal. That I was going to pull off her mask at the gathering. I could detect her deepest fear over the phone for some reason. Within one week, simply asking questions about mom was turned into my hate of mom. Sister called the angriest brother, he called another, they all joined in to protect mom. Sister devalued, smeared and had me discarded from all siblings in one week.
The most impressive skills of someone like my sister and mother isn't all the damage she caused in her romantic relationships and their own famiies, it's the power and control they have over a network of friends and family. The manipulation is complete and unshakeable.
When I started studying these disorders then reading comments on TH-cam, it was immediately clear codependents posting are unaware of their disorders. There are the love deficit, many of us are. There are a great many posting who are the narcissists coming across as victims. Some may know. I think most do not know. Many content creators are narcissists garnering supply by the hopeful posts they invoke.
Food for thought. To thy own self be true.
Very good questions to ask one's self: am I projecting, denying things about myself, in an abusive relationship, codependent, and enabling toxic behaviour? What are my blind spot biases, my pet hates, and are they in me too? Am I being self aware?
How would this look to others?
Yeah, this is what I've been waiting for.. I need this one.
Thank you Gentelmen for talking about This incredibly important problem that is present in so many families where the mother has narcisistic traits. Their sons are held hostage, sometimes for a lifetime. Knowledge and awareness and support from people like you can make a difference which I hope it will. You are saving people’s lives by talking about your experiences and showing a way of of those traumatic circumstances .
I asked my therapist 2020 after my boyfriend leaving me if he ever heard of emotional incest..he said no..but as I analyze myself, the Family of Origin of my ex..I can see that that could have been one reason for him exhibiting the behavior that he exhibits
Thank you. Just spent two hours crying with gratitude. I finally feel free.
Wow priceless conversation. That poem was glimpses freedom.
Thank for your comment.
Ross I am really enjoying your work…I came across you some months ago.
I really like your term SLD and agree the word codependent needs to go.
I probably had a BPD mother and perhaps a narcissistic father.
I spent 3 & half years in therapy.
I am 42 nearly 43 and was in therapy in my 30’s.
It’s taken this long for the penny to really finally drop the wickedness of my parents. I remember my therapist saying your not angry enough and now I get it.
It took a recent relationship with a covert/sociopathic person to really really get what my parents had done to me.
I am going to dip back into therapy for a while.
The poem brought tears to my eyes. I relate so much. So thankful for this material so I can try my hardest not to pass down traits to my children. I hope they never have to suffer as adults like I have 🙏
A couple of weeks ago I was watching a Jordan Peterson video in which he described briefly the symptoms of narcissism. Sounded like my mom to the tea. Then I did some more digging watching more videos on the subject and low and behold someone mentioned and described Emotional Incest. Bang! It finally all made sense what I experienced in my childhood with my mother. Thank you for making this video.
Just wondering what were some of the symptoms? I think my exes mother is a narc but I don’t know. She’d called him 3-4 times a day, text him all throughout the day, and text him not to have sex with me. Whenever we had an argument she’d either confirm or deny what I was “complaining about.” She’d tell him to rub my feet, buy me flowers, etc. when I didn’t want any of that. I wanted a man, someone to be there with me. I don’t know.
I am traumatized 😢 but I am healing now expressing my anger and built my boundaries
Rick, your poetic story has induced me to a teary opening of flood defences.
Almost every line resonated with feelings impossible for me to ever relay in words even write.
It's cruel when the victim sadly has 1st hand knowledge of the abuse & can spend a lifetime
struggling in their hope of someday understanding to the point of being able to express in
words but with such clarity.
Hi Jonathan. Thank you very sincerely for your comment. I hope this has moved you forward a bit in your healing.
@@RickBelden Hi there Rick. I'm still working on it, there are 54 years get through. Kind Regards Rick.
Thank you for this video. I'm just coming to the realization that emotional incest is the core of my lifelong difficulties in a couple areas of my life. Your explanation was helpful. The poem had some lines that really captures it. This is really hard and I feel sick to my stomach. But I have recently begun to have real hope of detaching from my father and finding out who I am apart from him. Both of you speak in such a kind and compassionate tone which made me able to watch the video even though the topic makes me feel sick to my stomach.
Sometimes, When Someone Says Something About What Has Happened To You, Even If You Can't Remember, Sometimes There Is A Reaction!!!
Excellent video. It's so much more genuine and trustworthy when the speakers have their own experiences in this particular life struggle.
The poem was a way of getting the experience outside of you; allowing you a more objective view to induce the healing process. The bonus is that it also induces healing in others who may not have been able to craft their experience into words as yet.
May God bless you for shedding light into this darkness.
My god.. back here a year later..listening to the poem again..
THAT POEM IS INCREDIBLE!!!!!!
Thank you! @RickBelden 💖💖💖💖💖
I so need this!! thank you so very much.. so much..
wow. I never considered the impact of toxic masculinity forcing men into "the provider" role with enmeshed sons.. I felt the responsibility for my mother's life and guilt and fear for leaving but I can't imagine the compounding shame of even more societal expectations on top of it..
thank you so much for the video and for sharing the poem! I really related to many of this stuff, and it helped me understand many of the emotional wounds that I have...
Dr Rosenberg I am in alignment with what you represent thank you for being out there and speaking out.
Rick’s poem really touched my heart and I’m so happy that he shared it. Thank you for doing this work to help us all. ❤
I am both happy and unhappy for being able to relate what is mentioned in this video. Thank you very much for bringing this situation into light. I definitely need to talk about this with my therapist.
Thank you so much for this.
What an incredible poem. Amazed at how many of its words resonated with me. Thank you sharing.
Wow im sobbing in tears when that poem was read omg. that is perfect
So validating. Thank you
Thankssss❤️❤️❤️ really touches my heart and mind, and gives me aha moment for me and my loved one
Respect. It is more difficult for men to talk about these kinda things in our society but it's the only way to make you a full human being, "whole" if you will and it's the only way out of that pit. I saw a painting once, I don't remember the name or the title. It was from an actual sexual abuse victim but it sumed up the situation perfectly for me. It showed a child with the head of a grown up being comforted by an adult body with a child's head. That emotional role-reversal is really the crux of the issue for me. And also, you mentioning how the parent does really care about the feelings of a helpless child really got me. A lot of broken people running around these days. You can see it everywhere. But then again, that might be the lack of confidence in others that you spoke of that spurs these kinda thoughts.
Beautiful dialogue here gentlemen. Thank you so much.
You're very welcome!
Brilliant. Thank you for sharing so much wise insight. Looking forward into diving into the mud on this and gaining some clarity on the other side.
Very moving poem. It touched my heart. The drowning person analogy is so on point.
Terrific explanations. Easy to follow and understand. Thank you. Hi Rick!
Hey Melissa! Thanks for watching and commenting.
Thank you Rick, thank you Ross, for sharing all of your knowledge, talent, and your very personal experience with us. I will always be grateful to both of you, for your talks and your writings (your poems, Rick, and your book, Ross). I understood your words immediately and resonated with them. I got to know myself through them. It's as if you know me without seeing me... Thank you for setting me free.
You're very welcome and I'm glad to know it's been helpful for you!
This is powerful stuff!
it hit a nerve in many ways, and explains so much about my family and other families in my life.
The poem was especially poignant and was clearly from the heart, excellent work!
Thank for your comment.
Yay I love poems! It hit me really hard, as did the whole episode.
Thank you so much for this interview with Rick Belsen. Your stories sound so familiar. It has become painfully clear that I was abused in this way as a child. I was my mom’s little confidant. I am An HSP empath by nature and my mom exploited these qualities about me. Now I understand where my addiction and attachment issues come from. I may contact Rick soon. I am looking for a new therapist. Thank you.
This is the first time I heard this expression and the definition given...
and now I see...
It will take time to digest this..
I’m 50, he is 85 and I’m devestated to learn only now things that happen and continue to happen to me are abuse. He used me sexually 2 years ago and I didn’t even know it until recently. How fucked up am I .
What a brilliant video you two.
Thank you 🙏🏽
This behavior is just a part of the generational abuse in our family!
I am fascinated with this poem.
It’s so interesting that this is about the codependent mother..
(as far as I understand) someone who wasn’t the narcissist.
Yet the horrendous destruction..
Such a good point about hating the terminology and resisting the "diagnosis" because of how we recoil from the word. I feel the same.
In Sydney NSW 'Grooming' has not even been recognised yet or even applied by legislation and our justice system.
Thanks for this helpful presentation and exchange that helps understand that emotional abuse can be a form of unwary neglect. Perhaps in trying to show that abortion was a possible way out of a difficult situation, the mother inadvertently laid a further burden on her adolescent child.
In family the perfection is impossible. A good intention of one will be blamed later snd so on - daily.
Your poetry is wonderful, thank you for sharing it
You're very welcome and thank you for watching and commenting.
this was really helpful 😊
** Rosses point about ‘no child would choose’ I think is super important.
All my life I believe I chose to be empathic a listener etc
But really I was COERCED into being the empathic listener.
I was punished if I didn’t do that
Punished if I tried to escape the conversations
Stonewalled if I ever tried to speak myself
I now Seriously Question my life-long identity as a sensitive empathic introvert listener!!!
This is quite shocking and amazing to me & I believe I’ve hit on something very true.
It’s a part of the grooming process.
That poetry is stunning , ❤️💕
thankyou both 💓
His example of emotional incest was so similar to one of my own. I got pregnant at 17 and one day I was spending the day with my family, we went to buy some baby supplies. Later in the evening they all started drinking alcohol and popping pain pills and my aunt told me my mom got an abortion when she was separated from my dad (when I was like 5). I was shocked because my mom told me it was a miscarriage. She actually told me that while beating me because I guess I had triggered her somehow and she was drunk. I’m now realizing my mom isn’t the only emotionally incestuous person in my family.
I think this dynamic creates severe suffering. It's confusing and alienating, and makes someone rely on shutting down.