Bernstein: "We know when you BS us"
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 8 ก.ย. 2024
- A short clip of Leonard Bernstein correcting a student conductor at Salzach Schleswig-Holstein Musik Festival for excessive stopping. Telling the student not to “BS” them. The student was clearly a little upset by this.
Source: 1988 VHS “Teachers and Teaching”
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That’s a Burnstein❤️
This comment gave me a good chuckle. Thank you! 😂👍
Buriedstein 😂😂
boom! -stein
Absolutely true. It actually takes a tremendous courage to say: Sorry guys, I screwed up.
I also like that he says that it will make the ensemble feel more at ease if their director can admit fault.
Conductors studied conducting because they fell in love with the idea of never being contested by anyone. Therefore, most conductors don’t even care about musicians or even music.
it's the only way. Really all you're saying is I made a mistake which we all do
Lmao not really. Only I’m overly pretentious circles is it difficult. People act like they’re getting graded
@@martinscalona-clarinet9042pretentious weirdos do this. They never understood music in the first place and they’re the reason the genre is old and stuffy.
It’s true. Orchestras find it totally okay if the conductor says “sorry, my fault. Let’s start again”. Pretending you’re flawless is a mortal sin.
That’s right: “Pride before the fall”
I heard that if you make a mistake as a conductor they wanna eat you alive 😂
@@hansleber6090 Oh, absolutely!
@@hansleber6090Only if conductors make mistakes very often or if they’re A-holes.
Musicians are human beings. Mistakes should always be 'owned' whether it's by a conductor or player. Lenny was a brilliant musician, composer, conductor, educator and communicator. This is a superb lesson for any young conductor.
This is a lesson that will work in ALL aspects of life.
FOR SURE. I am reminded of teachers who would make little mistakes in front of class and try to pretend it didn’t happen. Be genuine. Acknowledge mistakes and move on. It builds a connection with your students and peers.
This is the truth. I have experienced this in person with unexperienced conductors. Bernstein was the man.
He's even got the sunglasses, to protect from the fire of that burn
I was in a rehearsal with a fine conductor who stopped the professional orchestra at a spot, and the flutist asked if we could play that passage again. Yes, he replied, "I fu**ked it up myself." I was very impressed with his candor!
I always say “once more, for me” - concise and clear without having to say “my bad” 😂
For someone who supposedly had an ego, he seems very kind and helpful.
In his later years and while teaching (at Tanglewood) he seems very kind and down to earth. There are certainly no shortage of examples painting him differently. I suppose everyone has a few different sides.
For what it's worth, I was fortunate to be present at Tanglewood in 1988, as a composer, and we had a whole evening with Lenny (after making him dinner in the funny little kitchen at Seranak) playing him tapes of our music and he was wonderful, but the most memorable thing was what he told as at the end: You're all writing very good music, but you all take yourselves far too seriously. Classic LB, and full of truth.... @@MrMayAllDay
Thank you so much for sharing!
@@robkeeleycomposer what did he mean by that? “You all take yourselves far too seriously.”
Toward the end, the late 80s (after his wife Felicia died and after he wrote A QUIET PLACE), He really mellowed out his ego..and became a teacher extraordinare.
In most professions you'll earn some respect for a little humility. It shows you are confident enough in your craft to let your actual talent shine next time rather than try to bluff on a mistake.
Very well put!
its not humility its called integrity
I had a classical piano teacher in college who would rarely let me play more than a few notes at a time without stopping me. To her ears, there was always something wrong, even when I had performed a passage flawlessly. It felt like sadism, whether that was her intent or not. The more she stopped me, the more I expected her to stop me, and it became a vicious circle. As a result, much of the musicality drained out of my playing, and my sole concern became keeping her from saying "stop." I switched teachers the following year, but I don't think ever enjoyed playing as much after that experience. Bernstein's direction was spot-on here.
...and you've got to move on and stop allowing that nasty woman to affect your life so negatively...
@@photo161 You're not wrong. But I think it pushed me more into jazz piano and voice, where I had more freedom, which isn't necessarily a bad thing.
@@ericholck3914Jazz is amazing. "Here's the music, but make it yours!" Classical piano is 99% technical; strict and rigid and everything is spelled out on the page, where jazz piano is 65% technical and 35% improvising it, so it's your style, uniquely yours, and nobody will ever play the same piece in the same way.
@@erickalear7609 Exactly. For many of us, there are enough rigid rules imposed on us in our day-to-day lives not to take advantage of unrestrained creative expression when we have the opportunities.
Her name wasn't Laura was it?
YES! Lenny nailed it! Professional Orchestras CAN always tell when the Conductor is bullshitting....and so many young conductors do exactly that....
A little BS gives one self-confidence.
@@LloydRMaes false confidence.
@@maestroclassico5801 bunk!
@@LloydRMaes Dude I studied Conducting and trust me from actual first hand experience, "fake it till you make it" doesn't work in front of a professional orchestra. Another thing I noticed is Conductors....who maybe only KNOW like 7 or 8 pieces....they Guest Conduct or never stay in one place very long....they leave before they're "discovered". Another thing I've seen .....Conductors who "hide" behind contemporary repertoire.
@@maestroclassico5801 Bunk!!!
I seem to recall a story about Toscanini repeating a movement (?) of the Eroica in rehearsal and telling the musicians that it was for him, not for them. He knew that symphony inside out, but he always wanted to do better.
When I was younger, in my field (not music), if the old boss would want to tell me something, at least I had the gut telling me to shut up and listen, fully realizing he can see through me, and no matter what I say I would only dig my hole deeper. So just appreciate the bits of wisdom with your mouth shut and be grateful for the lesson the master blessed you with. Don't make it look like the master is just wasting his time on someone hopeless.
Easiest way to earn an orchestra's trust is to admit when you goof up. Then, they know it's really important when you stop them to discuss an actual issue. They won't respect you any less for it. There's a big difference between making an "oops" and not being prepared - and they can always tell. I even have a hand gesture for when we are in the middle of a concert and I can't verbally say "my fault!" Goes a long way.
.. the younger dude should tell himself : when a true legend takes the time to give me sincere and priceless advice, i should sit my ass down and listen !!!!!
'We kids, down here' says 70 odd year old Bernstein lmao, young at heart.
Been teaching band for 13 years. THIS IS SAVAGE! and true...
The young conductor may have had a point: the entire trombone section came in FF at the start of the flute solo.
interesting how the younger guy kept trying to defend himself while Bernstein was offering advice. note to self: if an expert is giving me advice, don't try to talk! :D
Well said by LB. Even Toscanini admitted to making mistakes now and then. In one rehearsal, he supposedly said “I deserve to give myself a good punch in the nose!”.
That’s funny, and it shows that Toscanani was no hypocrite! 😂
Real great human like Professor Leonard Bernestein say that and could be a source we can trust ❤❤
100% True. Be humble and own it when the mistake is yours. The collective musicianship in the ensemble is exponentially bigger than that which is on the podium. You will build relationship with the musicians with some humility. That said, be PREPARED so it doesn't have to happen that often. ;)
Brilliant conductor wants to explain to Leonard Bernstein why he's wrong😂
Carlos Spierer still working today! (Without the BS:-)
Love it! Wish all teachers were like he was.
I luv it when he said: we are know it whe you are uh... Bullshitting😂😂
I was a little skeptical about Bradley Cooper's voice in the movie but NEVERMIND lol it's perfect
The problem is the nose.
I think the problem in the movie is he mumbles, I can totally understand him in this clip, but Cooper got the tone, but just seems to mumble a lot of his lines.
As an engineering student I loved the arts so much, I was driven to study ballet. While taking a class, the teacher called out a student for incorrectly executing a pirouette (it was sloppy lol). The student starting making BS excuses similar to the student in the clip. After two round, teacher pointed to the exit and only said one word -"Leave". I learned a valuable lesson from that - never BS an accomplished ballet teacher, or any other teacher.
He's right but I wish I knew what that guy said and what they played. I want to see the score too. Right now I have a headline and a scapegoat.
I've had conductors says " oops I goofed up. Take it again, same place" when everyone knew it was me who screwed up. I thought it was a classy way to go. Rather than humiliating me, which is counter productive. Self deprecation works wonders for conductors.
Pure Gold
Conductor was still trying to dig himself out up to the very end. Lesson probably not learned.
I mean, there’s no context here. Bernstein may have wrongly assumed the conductor stopped out of confusion.
Honesty, still the best policy.
A conductor doesn't have to embarrass themselves into saying that they screwed up or got lost, either... They can simply say something like "I am sorry, for my sake, let's go back to bar ....." Orchestra understands and respects the conductor wanting to reset because they personally need to...
Humility is the key
I’ve seen many conductors do exactly this, and there isn’t ANYONE who is fooled by it, not for one second
"I think a lot of Leonard Bernstein - but not as much as he does." -Oscar Levant
I've had bosses who needed this advice.
i met Bernstein only once. and i'll always treasure that moment when his eyes turned and he looked at me and smiled.
I had the same but with Anna Wintour.
I just apologised for messing up a tempo on Sunday last. He's right. Better
A lesson in authenticity and integrity.
Maybe if he took advice better, we’d know the student conductor by name. Great lesson, hope he learned and moved on to something good for him.
It‘s Carlos Spierer.
That's true in any leadership role.
Poor bloke someone probably told him to stop the orchestra for no reason just to let them think you're in complete control and he thought, "now is the perfect time."
That's a lesson you can apply to everyday life!
Ouch - burn!
"We know when you're bullshitting" - Leonard Bernstein.
But LB probably gave him a big sweaty hug afterwards!
@@spextrekid9410
Who would even bother to get a word in with that precious little tyrant.
When Lenny is teaching, the wise shut up and learn.
I am not criticising L.B. as he was trying to be helpful. But I have always felt he fell in love with the reflection he saw when he looked in a mirror. But he is not the only one as far as I am concerned, many great entertainers across a wide spectrum have done the same thing. It does not detract from their ability.
My music mentor grew up idolizing Lenny in the 50’s and 60’s. He arranged to meet him after a concert in the 80’s. My mentor said it was a perfect example of “never meet your heroes”.
However, the man is an obvious musical legend.
Who would argue with Leonard Bernstein?
Me
Every student argues with their teacher at some point, especially in music. Best way to learn and to lead is to get proven wrong and it sometimes takes an argument here and there to make music clearer.
@@bernabefernandeztouceda7315 And what symphony orchestra do you conduct? And for how many years?
Good point, Lenny.
Why didn't Maestro have anything half this interesting as this one minute exchange?
Agreed
Welp time to bing watch Bernstein videos again 🥲
The gall of the young conductor trying to give the Maestro an argument.
amazing!
Love that. And so true.
One and only
Boinsteen ... the flash of young and old egos ... flashing flashing awwwwwww flashing !!!!
You can’t pull one on a master craftsman.
I wish he could ve been smoking inside the orchestra
He looks like a simpsons character
He’s great here!
Don't mess with Bernstein!
He's been Berned
Tell that to J K Simmons in Whiplash
No big deal. Bernstein admits to being a BS in his younger days. By God I loved his BS.
And who is this student who constantly tries to speak onto Bernstein advice? Where is he now?
There are many big name conductors who stop and say repeat and offer no instructions. One conductor to emulate was Szell. He knew exactly what he wanted, said it and got it. Unfortunately , he could also scare a lot of people.
Szell? Try Reiner! And dare I say Toscanini?
Right on
He's a bully.
Lenny talking about "covering up the truth"? LOL.
Have another smoke....yikes
Learn from the master and don't talk back. Be humble and recognize an older and more
experienced teacher's expert advice and accept constructive criticism. Learn & grow.
True
Bernstein had the nicest ways of putting you in your place.
He's right but i wouldn't embarrass a young conductor in front of entire orchestra like this. Bring it up with him one-on-one. Point is to correct and not to shame
Stupid, but serious question, does a conductor actually do anything besides telling the orchrestra when to start?
I believe so. Some pieces require more involvement from the conductor if the timing and tempo call for it. Also, it depends on how well the ensemble plays.
The rehearsal process is very much up to the conductor though. That is where I think the secret to the best conductor lies. Someone who the orchestra likes and can properly lead the group through rehearsal.
As a music teacher and conductor for 40+ years, there are really only four things a conductor does;
1. Start and Stop the music.
2. Gives the tempo.
3. Conducts the style to be played.
4. Gives cues. (i.e., gestures to individuals or sections for their entrance.
Some might disagree and include things like, corrects wrong notes, or helps with counting rhythms, etc., but these duties (and many more) belong to a "teacher". A conductor has 4 duties, a teacher has many more. Oftentimes, one person wears both hats.(@@MrMayAllDay
Think of a conductor like the director of a movie or play. The director’s job is to impart as clearly as possible, his/her vision to everyone on set, from the actors right down to the makeup and props. They decide how the actors say their lines, move their bodies, which camera angles to use, which lighting suits the atmosphere.
Some famous conductor (I don’t recall which one) said 95% of conducting is done during rehearsal. That’s probably true. A play director doesn’t appear on stage whispering direction and gesturing where the actors should go. Phantom of the Opera opened in the mid 1980s and stayed open well after its director died.
The other 5% of conducting is keeping precision in tempo changes during the performance, precision in entrances, in holding musical pauses, and even perhaps being an emotional presence felt by the orchestra, as Bernstein certainly was, during the performances.
So, your question isn’t stupid at all. In fact it’s quite valid! It’s just that what you see in the performance is only the tip of the iceberg.
th-cam.com/video/bjq0qtrKVLI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=nn0ChGe_vO4irFV-
Bernstein is right. You absolutely now when a conductor is bullshitting you.
He can do it once, and it'll be totally ok.
Do it twice, and who knows.
Do it thrice and I'm gonna derail this thing to teach you a lesson.
And yet, he was still not accepting the advice nor the owning up to his failure. Lenny could spot the disaster this young conductor's ego will inflict on performers and the musical work.
The old bug-chaser should button up his shirt and takeoff his sunglasses!
Bernstein should have known that you can't teach conducting. The very fact that he's standing there watching the student conductor undermines the students authority in front of the orchestra. A good exercise for Bernstein's ego!!
👍👍👍
Of course, conducting is taught. I studied conducting in classroom and live orchestra settings.
@@liamsandal6360 I studied conducting and I disagree with your analysis.
Conducting can absolutely be taught. It’s not just being a master of music and waving the stick, but it’s about communication, building trust, building rapport, collaboration, and learning how to be as transparent and as clear as possible. That absolutely can be taught, maybe not mastered by some, but it can be learned.
ANOTHER reason why I hate conductors. Not Lenny. Best ever was Sammy's. George Rhodes. Never a doubt about where 1,2,3 and 4 were, or who was in control of that band.
A cheap trick from Bernstein to put himself in the spotlight... such feedback to inexperienced conductors is given in private and not in front of a smirking orchestra
Bernstein just liked to hear himself talk and conduct scores in a different way then anyone else whether it ruined it or not.
Which band was Bernstein in? 🤨
my deep empathy to the victim-pupil-aspiring conductor. shameful speech from a decaying man (who then was nearing his end), overtaken by debauchery
What orchestra does this "student" now conduct?
Is he not a "student"?
As a maracas player I totally agree with Bern. Own your shit
Bernstein hmmm always made an arrogant impression.
A know it all!
Said the guy who stopped the orchestra to give bullshit instructions to the triangles for half an hour....lenny soooo overrated
Nah, Lenny knows what he's doing there, but yeah ,but I agree that he definitely is overrated .
"I think a lot of Leonard Bernstein - but not as much as he does." -Oscar Levant
Right on!