How Bernstein ACTUALLY Conducts vs. Bradley Cooper in Maestro
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 พ.ค. 2024
- 0:00 Intro
1:18 Entschweben
2:49 Downbeat
4:58 Choir Entrance
5:27 Preparation
6:11 Balance
7:08 Windmill
7:38 Closed
8:17 Pointing
8:34 Climax
8:59 Mahler
9:40 Bradley Cooper
10:57 Communication
12:58 LSO
13:40 Storyteller
Bradley Cooper took a huge risk to conduct like Leonard Bernstein for 5 straight minutes recreating a concert of Mahler's 2nd Symphony that we have film footage from! So we can actually see how Leonard Bernstein conducted this moment versus how Bradley Cooper portrays it in the Oscar-nominated film Maestro. As you will see, the two are similar in some ways but different in others. Let me break it down for you.
Videos discussed:
Deutsche Grammophon - Bernstein conducting Mahler's 2nd Symphony
• Leonard Bernstein, LSO...
Netflix - Maestro
www.netflix.com/title/81171868
Omnibus - The Art of Conducting
• Leonard Bernstein "Art...
Two Set Violin - Bradley Cooper Didn't Practice 40 Hours
• Bradley Cooper didn’t ...
Other images by Pixabay and Pexels.
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#bradleycooper #maestro #bernstein - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
this was amazing commentary. I have a master's degree in conducting from the Eastman School of Music and I learned a lot from this video. Bravo
Hear hear!!
You shoukd really do more conducting analysis, its really interesting and you are really great at explaining why great conductors do what they do
Thanks! Gotta admit it was fun spending time with Lenny to explain his conducting. I'd definitely be down to do it again in the future!
I support this comment 100%
100% agreed!
Yes, absolutely!
Yeah, I'd be super into that
He looks so joyful doing this.
I said this before: When he conducted this, as short of a man he was, it felt like he was levitating 3 ft. above the podium.
As a chorister who sang this very piece with Berlin Phil under Simon Rattle and have since been hating Rattle's conducting with a passion, thank you for showing us how Bernstein got it right.
just curious, what's the issue with Simon Rattle's conducting?
@@george9065 Pay close attention to how his jaw tenses up when he wants to show intensity. As a chorister, it's the exact opposite I need for my vocal production.
It's that with Rattle, and with Dudamel it's his neck. I know they both have done great things and are both excellent musicians, but my honest opinion is these quirks are counterproductive for a conductor who conducts singers.
GREAT analysis, Howard! Thank you so much for that insightful glimpse into "actual" vs. "ACTED" and why is kind of NEEDS to be different for the film.
Incredible video mate, I'm glad you're here to give clarity on the purpose of Bradley's conducting performance
This was a great video! Super good analysis.
I am once again azed how as a player, I really couldn't have told you exactly Bernstein was doing, but I swear if I was sitting on the other side of that baton I would have known intuitively what all of this is supposed to make me do.
Communication between conductor and player is, when executed well, such an intuitive and natural process it's almost subconscious.
Absolutely. As a singer, I know when a conductor is easy to follow and not, and even more so, when they truly conduct emotion and artistry versus conducting the music. A really good conductor makes it so that (if the musicians are prepared) the artistry and shaping just flows from watching them. It’s an absolute joy as a musician in those circumstances.
This is phenomenal! You have such a gift of analyzing performances and relaying to the viewers what we’re seeing and why it matters. Loved it!
THANK YOU!!!!!!
This video shows that Bernstein was not only emotionally driven, as the critics decried him, but just as much an analytical conductor.
I think critics observed that he was more emotional earlier in his career which gave him that reputation. But certainly by this concert, he had matured.
That's EXACTLY what I wanted to see, thank you
"The whole choir has had a rest 😴" omg that picture you used made me laugh so hard 😂🤣
This was a wonderful analysis. I play in a community orchestra and we have now for the first time in the 80 year history of it , have a new conductor who is a young genius musician who I think has a chance to move up to a really great orchestra. I came here because I am intrigued by how a person learns the art of conducting and you have pointed out many subtleties that are helpful to keep a look out for.
Thank you for another great analysis! You always make these so fun, @HowardHoMusic, that I forget how much I'm learning.
Wow this made me tear up because it was so beautiful. Thank you for bringing up the analysis of the movie where we wonder what it must be like to be Bernstein
Hi Howard,
Kudos on this video, Sir.
You did a great job.
The main reason I could enjoy any form of art is to understand it and know why something is exceptional, and your videos have done just that to my musical enjoyment. Keep up the good work!
This is fabulous analysis!!
Fantastic breakdown, thanks!
Remarkable analysis of the details of LB's conducting!
This is a great video. Thank you. I have learned so much about conducting in general and the purpose of Bernstein’s body movements in particular, which I had thought were greatly exaggerated and for show. I now realize I was wrong.
No body can deny, what a great actor is Bradley Copper imitating to Bernstein in his career as a composer, conductor, and many other things what were missing , but in the last scene of the final Mahler second symphony , the motion of the hands in the conductor are really different , impossible to simulate yhe real "art of conducting of Bernstein " , I have seen the entire symphony dozens of times , since the DVD was delivered maybe 20 or 25 year ago , and i can say that it is a terrific and tremendous experience how Bernstein suffers along of the different movements, since the "funeral rites" until de "resurrection" , it seems to me that sometimes he cries furtively in this masterpiece, by the way, his predilect Mahler's symphony. The final of this symphony always make me cry . Congratulations! , Very good analysis.
Oh my oh my what a fella, so passionate about his craft!! Explains his persona in every way ❤❤❤❤❤ Lenny! I appreciate your great works. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ luv your shows oh n you were so fab looking even as you aged! 😊😊😊😊😊😊😊😊❤
This video was much much better and more entertaining than I expected it to be
Appreciate you giving it a chance!
love this so much !! conducting is something that i’ve always thought was so interesting but i never knew how to explore more stuff about it
I thought Cooper's conducting was quite cartoonish. I so enjoyed your tutorial on Bernstein's manner of conducting.
Wonderful video 🙏🏻
First time watching your videos. Yeah, you caught a subscriber. Gorgeously edited and articulated 👌🏾
Thank you for the sub!
Great analysis of Bernstein's conducting and why Bradley Cooper isn't doing it. I'm not really sold that Cooper's bad conducting is excusable partly because it stems from trying to identify the public act of conducting an orchestra with a private act of love for his wife. Regardless, I think that's a different topic.
I think you can definitely like or not the result of these decisions, but I just felt it was worth pointing out what he was attempting to do.
@@HowardHoMusic I guess my response is that a lot of people think Bradley Cooper looks silly conducting. My theory is that it's because of the whole channeling emotions without any technique behind it. Could be wrong.
To have a rank amateur mimic a pro - not just a pro but someone at the top of the field - cannot work. But non-musicians cannot and will not understand this.
@@Twentythousandlps If you can't imitate a great artist at his peak, maybe just don't imitate a great artist at his peak. In "Immortal Beloved" Gary Oldman imitates Beethoven's playing of the piano but we don't actually hear his playing but an overdub (btw Gary Oldman does play the piano). We should not justify Cooper's ridiculousness at the pontium, just because he's ego is too huge to NOT actually conduct an orchestra pretending he is Bernstein.
Conducting with one's face only is something I used to do as a choral director, not in performance, but as an exercise, to get the singers to pay closer attention to both me and to each other!
Wow - fantastic breakdown and analysis, both of Lenny's original performance, and of Bradley Cooper's cinematic recreation.
Also, your recognition of the fact that Cooper's aims are different than Bernstein's (due to Cooper being an actor doing a portrayal in a movie and not actually a real conductor) leads you to a very "humane" analysis of Cooper's performance, which is admirable on your part.
It would perhaps be possible to do a tougher review of Cooper's attempt to depict this particular performance of Bernstein, but there isn't a great reason to do so. We should be thankful that he made this movie, and applaud what he did manage to achieve.
To really get to know Lenny the musician and musical genius, one really just has to go back to the original material, which fortunately for us, exists in great and glorious abundance! 😀
Nicely put. Thank you!
Perhaps a "great reason" to do a tougher review of Cooper is that his portrayal is likely to mislead those who are not already acquainted with Bernstein's music. Personally I found the film to consist of style over substance - it was a caricature of Bernstein which somehow failed to communicate his soul.
Wonderful essay.
Excellent!
This was really interesting
I'd love more videos like this
i feels like there's something to be said about how maybe this is a necessary problem of a heavy auteur/great men/protagonist framing of a story. bernstein in a biopic can only ever be the center of focus, not a man who worked together with a lot of musicians, which requires good communication. i don't know there's probably something there at any rate
Yeah, it feels like cross-purposes. Would love to see someone tackle that topic!
Thank you, that was insightful and entertaining. I'm glad you were generous to Bradley Cooper's conducting/acting, as accuracy is indeed not the point of what he is communicating in his character. Yes, it's clunky, but then forgivable in the bigger narrative arc of the film (which is a really good movie about a complex man and unique musician. I was a teen in the 70s and grew up watching Bernstein's wonderful programmes about music when they made over the pond. I've just reread my 1994 biography of Bernstein by Humphey Burton (who directed the filming of the Ely Mahler 2 in the 70s). A bonus of the film (and soundtrack) is how much is Bernstein's own music, way beyond the handful of works that many are familiar with today, and `I hope there is a renewed interest in his uniquely wide compositional output.
Fun fact: I live a few miles from Ely. I was in city during the filming of the Cooper Mahler 2, just on a day trip, during the pandemic days. I was puzzled why the whole cathedral precint was closed off until I saw countless filming trucks and technicians. No one would say what was being filmed!
Would you say that if we had a film about Beethoven we should butcher his music, in order to show his inner emotions (as opposed to the music, which somehow does not?)? The film showed a caricature of Bernstein and his conducting in Mahler's 2nd was the most caricaturistic of all. I wondered if Bernstein was such a clown as Cooper made him to be. Thank God I found the video of Bernstein and realised that no it was just Cooper who was ridiculous.
'Maestro' was such a good movie. At the end of the Ely scene, all I could do was whisper "Holy shit". It was INTENSE. I haven't seen much of Bernstein's conducting at all, though I'll have heard recordings.
I think you should watch more movies
Wow. Outstanding, deep analysis. Masterly master class. It would be interesting to see and hear if the orchestra could do it as well without a conductor. With enough rehearsal, I would say they could get close. The players and singers are amazing. And their ears and experience could probably balance the symphony.
There are actually some conductor-less orchestras that exist! But yes, a lot of the conducting happens in the rehearsals, so even if the conductor messes up, the players still remember how they rehearsed it and can perform it unscathed.
This was such a fantastic video! I'd love to see your analysis of "Heart of Stone" from the SIX musical
I'm hoping to get to all the songs eventually!
This was really interesting. I've always wondered the purpose of all the gestures a conductor makes.
Um, most have NO purpose. Fact.
@@organboi No, that's obviously your opinion...
I wasn’t expecting to learn so much about conducting and Bernstein himself! Thank you for this brilliant and informative video! 🙏🏻 Watching Bernstein conducting does seem erratic and a bit deranged sometimes, and I found it so insightful to know there is a specific and thought out intention in every movement. It made me understand Bernstein a lot more. Which is why I believe it was a bit of a disservice on Bradley Cooper’s part to not be as specific in his movements. But I agree, a movie is a movie, not an exact depiction of reality, but rather an instrument to tell a story. Cooper was, in a way, not the conductor of the orchestra, but the conductor of the audience, and was leading us into understanding something about Bernstein. I still wish he was more rigorous in his gestures, but I understand I’m not meant to see the real Bernstein conducting, rather his story and emotions in that specific moment of the film. Again, thank you and congratulations on this amazing video! I don’t usually comment on YT, but you really made me think 😅🙏🏻
Fascinating! I have sung with many wonderful conductors: Shaw, Ormandy, Leinsdorf, Stanley Chapple, Aaron Copland (well sort of a conductor!) and my wonderful professor from Crane School of Music, Brock McElheran. But I never truly studied conducting although I took a course in college as part of my music education. I was a choral music teacher but when conducting my grade school choirs it was never any patterns that I learned in college but rather just down and up. Kids that age don't really get the patterns anyway. 😊 I wish I had sung with Bernstein but it was not to be.
interesting video 👍
The difference is Bradley is trying to - interpret - Lenny while Lenny was - interpreting - the music!
Thoroughly interesting. Even my non-muso hubby found it fascinating 👏👏👏
Cool, thanks for sharing it with him!
The intend of maestro is very specific in that scene. We are not tracking Lennys love of Mahler, we are tracking Bradleys love of himself.
hahahahaha. Exactly!
I agree with @tommasorossi578, I would definitely subscribe if you did more classical music conducting analysis. That is what brought me to your channel, but all the other video you are are for something I am uninterested in. You rock at classical analysis, keep it up and you'll have more followers.
Well, I do cover classical music occasionally when it involves storytelling. My Die Hard video goes deep into Beethoven's Ninth and my Groundhog Day video is basically about Rachmaninoff. Here are those links if you're interested...
Groundhog Day: th-cam.com/video/L1rtQ9Umwpk/w-d-xo.html
Die Hard: th-cam.com/video/E7SKt6cfH44/w-d-xo.html
The movie should have ended with Bernstein's video in homage to the maestro !
7:41 I think the two fingers here is to bring out the German Z sound (“ts”) from the choir, agree?
The lad is so superb ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
Cooper seems different because . . . he is an actor and not a Xerox machine. The movie and his performance are an interpretation of and an artistic reaction to the art of Bernstein.
That's exactly what I say later in the video!
You should review Cate Blanchett in Tar. Movie is simply amazing especially her performance
Yes, agreed!
Bradley Cooper, playing Steve Martin, playing Leonard Bernstein
Howard, omg, I swear the world keeps getting smaller. I sang for Maestra Noone a couple times pre-pandemic on the Legend of Zelda: Symphony of the Goddesses tour!
OMG lucky you! She is one of my favorite people ever and her video game work is just next level!
i wish people made reviews about cate blanchett’s conducting on tar. yet, nobody seemed focused on that. sure, tar is not a real life person, so there is no one to compare the performance to, but i keep thinking: maybe she was just more convincing in her role and nobody even thought to care about the conducting?
I thought her conducting was great! Maybe I will cover that at some point!
that would be cool!👍@@HowardHoMusic
Subbed
Appreciate it!
6 years... in 6 years, he could have actually learned how to read music on a professional level, and conduct it. Instead, he just focused on learning how to *look* like he's doing that, and that's really such a waste. It's clear that Bradley Cooper tried really hard to look like he was playing Leonard Bernstein, but what he should have been doing was understanding what every single gesture he was doing actually meant *in the music.* Sure, somebody probably said, "well, this is a downbeat, so do this," and he remembered that, but the movement of the piece was not being expressed at all. If he actually learned how to understand the music (not just what Bernstein did with it), he'd have been a much more convincing character.
I loved Maestro and I love that it led me to this wonderful, even "magistral," analysis of Bernstein's conducting. I have to admit I stopped watching when the Maestro analysis began....
Love being called "magistral"! btw, in case you're wondering, my analysis of Bradley Cooper isn't all doom and gloom. I put the analysis in the context of what the film is trying to do. So I would think that if you love Maestro, my observations would only strengthen your love of what Bradley Cooper made!
@@HowardHoMusicI watched enough to see that you were looking at the larger picture. I think Cooper did his work in that he made me really interested to understand what Bernstein actually did. Not only with respect to music but in so many other areas of his life.
The ‘ben’ part of the word entschweben is not important for the meaning really, it’s a generic ending of a verb and carries no meaning by it self. It’s a characteristic of German language unlike Italian where words often end with a meaningful sound like amor. He just wants the Ben to be clear because of the exclamation mark and climax.
Oh, cool! Thanks for that context.
How is a conductor responsible for bringing in a section. Like they just don’t come in and don’t play the music if he doesn’t motion toward them
Of course, each section would still play if he doesn't motion towards them, and in fact, there are many sections he doesn't motion toward, because he knows that they are fine without him. What he's doing is motioning toward the sections that would benefit from it, either because he wants to shape their performance directly to fit his vision or because he knows a particular section will have a tendency to be timid or not enter together at the same time, etc.
Odd to focus quite so much on communication with orchestra and chorus. SOME of what we do as conductors is for the audience to understand and feel what's going on.
Yes, that's true. But I think most people already assume that conductors are performing for the audience on some level. What people are less aware of are the technical parts of communicating with an orchestra, which is why I'd rather point that out rather than point out something they already can understand intuitively. Hope that makes sense.
Got it. Been thinking about what we should watch when trying to understand conducting. I suspect we need to spend a lot of times with rehearsals. Thanks so much for the work.
Ironically, the teacher Yannick Nézet-Séguin is currently much further from the status of a great conductor than the student Bradley Cooper is to his first Oscar. The gravity of Cooper's mistake in choosing a teacher is that Oscar goes to Cillian Murphy.
Didn't like the film. Found the dialogue in the first hour very tedious. Bradley Cooper did a good job acting the role but his conducting moves were far too exaggerated.
I enjoyed your commentary on Bernstein but I think you are over thinking the whole thing. I did see him conduct in person and what stands out is his emotional approach. By the end of Mahler's 2nd it has been a long and intense concert and this is where Lenny just allows emotion to flow and flies with it. I think Bradley Cooper's performance is the most convincing I've ever seen of a conductor being acted out. However I was totally disappointed by the film as it was more about LB's private life not his creativity or indeed his championing Mahler
I never understood why berstein spend so much of his time and energy to conduct instead of composing more music.
I could never really tell the difference in performance between different conductors but I adore Berstein's music
It was his mentor Serge Koussevitzky, who discouraged composition as a trifle. There's a scene in Maestro that depicts Serge actually doing this.
Conductor vs. Composer - this was the great artistic conflict of his life!
Money and time. Conductor's fees, especially at the superstar level, are significantly higher than what a composer earns for writing a new work, unless it turns out to be a megahit like West Side Story. In his later years, Bernstein had several major works which were almost universally panned, such as the Broadway show 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and the opera A Quiet Place. He probably subconsciously thought "why should I spend several months writing another symphony or opera which might not be successful and which will not earn me nearly as much money and adulation as I could earn conducting Mahler's Second in Vienna for a week."
But the Oscars didn't think so either!🤣🤣🤣
Lol bringing in twoset is nice hhhhh
Good points made here.Bernstein had a lot of talent of course, but I wouldn't call him a "visionary genius" (good grief !) and when he conducted, it was more about himself than the music. We can be grateful to him for his championing of Mahler in the 70s and for his Young Peoples concerts, and for his catchy Broadway hits. The Harvard lectures also interestingly engaged the multidisciplinary currents of their decade. But overall, it seems to me that LB was to the previous generation of conductors as this actor is to LB. The drift is from the difficult and obscure act of creation to the public display of feeling.
And yet his conducting consistently brings out the absolute best of the musicians (just listen to the New World Symphony with the Israel Philharmonic...) One might say what one wants about the hero worship Bernstein still enjoys, but I don't think the "freer", more emotional physical style of his conducting is to the detriment of the music.
@@ricardoreis8096 indeed on the contrary… He has a certain style and he hears the music he conducts in a particular way. That is in my opinion the interesting thing about conductors. The same orchestra playing the same piece from the same score will still sound different depending on the conductor. Perhaps Bernstein was slightly more "American" in the sense that he liked to "exaggerate" and "dramatise" some of the music and cues in a way which was not always refined. But I personally like that approach as he knows how to get the best out of the orchestra he works with and he gives the pieces he conducts personality. Just listen to him doing the Rite of Spring, irregardless of the orchestra in front of him. Compare it to for example a sir Simon Rattle. Completely different approach but I feel the spirit of the piece much more come alive with Bernstein who seems to be tapping into the same stuff Stravinsky did when he wrote it.
his hair wasnt that curly and his nose wasnt that big lol why they do him like dat
bernstein was an all time great whose original pieces are so so underrated, but imo he always plays mahler too slow!
Yeah, I think I remember someone saying that he conducted slowly because he didn't want the pieces to end.
Turning back and forth to the female soloist is probably NOT accurage.
Agreed. I nearly put that in the video.
The orchestra would do just as well without the conductor
There are indeed some conductor-less orchestras that exist! I would say the conductor does more than just stand and wave arms. The conductor also chooses the pieces, runs the rehearsals, and sets the vision for the type of sound and expressivity the orchestra has. As far as keeping time though, yeah, the very good orchestra could probably get away with that without a conductor.
I don't think anyone should expect Bradley Cooper, an actor and producer and NOT a conductor, to get everything Leonard Bernstein did 100% perfect. He obviously worked long and hard at the conducting segment of the film and did a remarkable job.
I hope people come away from this video understanding this as well as gain an appreciation for what the real conductors are actually doing!
What a difference from how conductors led back when the music was written:
th-cam.com/video/NqDYHdWPBsE/w-d-xo.htmlsi=36aMx9NYqfmdTcvZ
If Arthur Nikisch, regarded as one of the greatest conductors of his time, was conducting the opening of Liszt's 1t Hungarian Rhapsody (which we can't tell, since there is no sound on the film), his gestures were appropriate, since the opening is slow and the rhythm is rather free.
@@cbptrumpet How do you know that it's the opening?
@@KeithOtisEdwards Nikisch's gestures and his tempo fit the fluid, almost improvisatory-like opening of the First Hungarian Rhapsody rather than the more boisterous part that follows.
@@cbptrumpet Or so you imagine. Despite that it’s silent, you, a virtuoso, who has the score memorized, note for note, can hear what we mere mortals cannot.
(Folx, would you buy a used car from this kid?)
No Oscar! Much ado about nothing!
I watched the movie it took me two takes…not my cup of tea! Usual Hollywood hoopla
Bernstein was energetic, but Cooper looks derranged.
No matter how you spin it, Cooper's conducting was a caricature of Bernstein. Whoever has any tiny experience with orchestras should be able to see it. And no one can or should justify an actor butchering the art of an artist in order to show emotion to the "hoi polloi", because otherwise the normies will not understand. It's insulting to both the artist portrayed and the audience.
After watching the film, I immediately had to go find the actual Bernstein's performance, because I couldn't believe that he was such a clown when conducting. Thank God, he wasn't.
cooper looked like a cartoon. maybe they should have put elmer fudds face on cooper. Horrible film
At last, someone said it!!
Maestro is an absolutely dreadful film.
Are we bothered that history was changed and there were women in the orchestra?
No, because it was the same real orchestra playing. And it would have made little sense to remove the women from the real orchestra, just to have a visual how the orchestra looked like 50 years ago. If they had tried that I'm quite sure the rest of the Orchestra would have walked out.
Also there WERE women playing in the recording. If you watch the whole Symphony you'll spot them. They are very rare but they are there. Which sets this videographed recording apart from his other Mahler video recordings. Because in them he conducts the Vienna Philharmonic and this here is the LSO. And the VPO did not allow women into their ranks at that time. So even on the harp you will see men.
You're way too generous. Brad was horrible. Not convincing at all as a conductor. That film looks awful.
He was barely convincing as a human being in this movie, let alone a great conductor...
Movie without any sense ....stupid to make it , simply stupid
As overrated as Karajan.