Part of it is also higher expectations. I've been told by my own parents that if I can't provide the same quality of living as I had growing up, then I wouldn't be a good parent. Meaning, if I can't afford a single family home, be a stay at home mom and pay for their college. Attaining that lifestyle is much more difficult than it was when my parents were my age.
@@katemiller7874 I'm sure you did work hard. But housing is still more expensive than it was 40 years ago and wages haven't kept up with inflation. Average daycare cost is 243.77% higher than it was in 1990. And I would need daycare because my spouse and I both work full time, unlike my parents in the 1980s.
@@K-sd5so I know it's possible but my parents believe it's not ok for me to "bring down" their grandkids. I.e. have a lower standard of living than what I had growing up. Basically I should have married a millionaire or won the lottery 😅 my parents are just being stuck up and guilt tripping me.
I feel you, it's so hard. Inflation over the past 5 years has been insane. Housing prices DOUBLED in my area going from 200k to 400k. If I had graduated 5 years later, I would not have been able to afford to live in what used to be an affordable town in GA. Groceries are so much more. It's not like incomes doubled within 5 years!!
Here is why I haven’t had kids: I spent ten years curing myself of a serious eating disorder. I was not mentally, physically or socially in the place to take care of anyone but myself. Recovery was a full-time job; very worth it but serious consequences came with devoting a decade of my prime years to survival.
Good example! It is true that health considerations are important. That could be mental, emotional, spiritual, relational, and/or physical health. Responsible parents are ideally healthy adults.
I liked this discussion but just some honest feedback- I think it's easy to sit and say don't let finances stop you from having kids when you're millionaires. It just feels a little easy for you to say that from where you sit. I still somewhat agree with you but it depends on the circumstances of each person. If you are in deep debt or struggling to afford rent or something, it is a very real consideration.
Agree. Our kid had some needs that weren't expensive, necessarily, but did keep me from working. It's been tight and if we'd still been in debt when we got pregnant, and I couldn't work, we'd still be in debt today four years later.
No Kidding. Not to mention that this country (the US) is very anti-parent. attainable jobs rarely accommodate parents and single moms, and if you can't have a good enough paying job how are you going to afford daycare and more expensive housing in addition to the default costs of raising a kid? It feels impossible.
They didn't deny the fact, "it will cost $300,000 from when they're young up until they're 18". So that's why they said you need to prepare and budget. They spent like 20 minutes talking about the costs.. you must've missed it. I think one thing that wasn't talked about is also when we delay in having kids, when you are financially 'stable', it would be much later in your life, health and fertility is a factor.
Awesome show. We have 3 children and money was really tight when they were little because I stayed home with them. They had no idea. They had love and toys and each other. Best years of our lives!
The amount of generosity from loving friends and family is amazing when having children, everyone chips in, hand down cloths, big ticket items, pack n plays, swings, toys, etc.
That's not the stuff that makes babies expensive. If you have bad insurance (I was blessed that way) it can be very expensive, daycare/nursery school, and don't get me started how crazy playing a sport is. I'm glad my kids wanted music and things like that, I saved thousands.
My husband & I are renting an apartment right now with a toddler and another baby on the way. Our budget is tight but I am happy we are having kids now and not waiting. Kids are a blessing. Congratulations George on your new little one! You will be a great dad.
Saying don’t let finances stop you from having kids is like saying don’t let mental illness stop you from having kids. They’re both valid reasons to hold off on that decisions. I don’t want to negatively affect another human being because I’m not mentally or physically prepared to give them what they need. Peace and Love tho
Congrats George!!!! FYI George, some of the best girl dads are the super buff ones whose hearts melt when their girls are around. Basically a super protector that shows their soft side.
There’s gatta be a part 2 you guys! There’s strollers for 2k, and there’s strollers for $100 bucks. Same with car seats, bassinets, cribs and everything else… I think comparing prices and stuff would be super useful for this episode:) Don’t over spend where you don’t need to! Congrats you guys :)
So true! Spend money on the carseat but it doesn't have to be plush. We spent around $200. We spent 600$ on child bed that could go from bassinet, to crib, to day bed. (Unfortunately, we didn't give it away soon enough and the kids broke the box spring.) Friends were looking for one and we felt so bad that we couldn't pass it on. Only spent $100 on clothes. Every thing else was freely given. Diapers were our #1 cost. 😢
There was a study that NPR discussed some time ago about the biggest factor that influences the childbirth rate of a society was women’s education level. School, college, university, then starting a career & so on pushes the ages to when women have kids to later. Add that people are getting married later in life, couples will have fewer years to get pregnant & have kids (without the risk of age-related pregnancy complications) which results in fewer children being born.
Was it specifically done in America? Because there are PLENTY of countries that allow over a year (more than 52 weeks) of paid parental leave to mothers and fathers that I would imagine make spending a few early years in college to invest in oneself less impactful on childbirth rates. However, in America, there is little parental leave at all, little support for parents, huge focus on individualism & capitalism, etc. This country (and the culture it’s created) doesn’t care about its citizens. As a 27 year old woman I would love to start a family and live a good life (not necessarily a lavish one) similar to the one I had growing up (3 bedroom house with big backyard, public school + tutoring and after school activities, 2 paid for used cars, etc.) but that is nearly impossible now. Both of my parents have degrees as well. I believe the low birth rates have more to do with culture and policy than college education.
@@GoJojo-lv6zi I’m not sure if that study was US only, but there have been other studies or news stories I’ve heard that looked at Sub-Saharan Africa & came to the same conclusion. It’s the same in every culture & society - as more options other than having kids are available to women, the birth rate trends downward. As for more paid leave to have kids, I think it’s Denmark that has 52 weeks paid but their birth rate hasn’t risen to replacement level & stayed relatively flat.
My parents were both born and raised in Sub-Saharan Africa and they provided the life I mentioned above to my sibling and myself in America, after getting their degrees. My father has a bachelor's degree and my mother has a master's degree as well. I have plenty of educated millennial family members who were born and raised in Sub-Saharan Africa and still live there to this day who (both parents) have degrees and have children. The economy, culture, and capitalist/individualistic policies in America (crippling student debt, expensive or inaccessible healthcare, little work-life balance, and everything else I mentioned before) have a lot (almost everything imo) to do with the lower childbirth rates.
More women started working. More households became two income. Higher household incomes meant bigger houses. The new standard had been set. Creating an increasingly harder environment for a one income household to survive financially. I’m a stay at home mom. My husband works. It has been hard. We have three children and are definitely not the norm but it can be done.
I felt bad when a worker got pregnant and he let her go breaking the "no sex" rule. Seemed mean but he is not like that with callers. I guess he separates the two. I do think a daycare is a good idea though.
The most expensive part of having kids isn't the material things I buy them. It's paying to fix their mistakes lol when they break something whether in the home or at a store, I have to pay to replace it! I never realized how big of an expense this would be before having kids.
This is true. I no longer buy new items for my house. I check the community apps for items posted for sale. My children have damaged more than a few items. Lol.
I have two boys. 13 and 6. They have never broken anything at anyone’s house or a store. If that’s your number one complaint, I’m a little baffled honestly.
Price of homes, costs of childcare, price of food and education. Add to that, toxic masculinity agenda in media and lack of opportunities or stable jobs. We have record debt and they wonder why we don't want to have kids. Then preference to women in divorce settlements since most marriages end that way.
It's Thursday and time for SMH²!!! I'm soooooooooooo happy for Klan Kamel with a K!!! We had our daughter late in life- I was a month from 40th birthday when my daughter was born in August of 2010, she is our only kiddo. Looking forward to hearing about you being a dad. Great job as always Rachel, George & Team SMH² - keep up the awesome job!
I would say yes, having a child affects pur financial goals. We haven't started BS4 because we are choosing to spend $400-$600 per month on therapies and appointments for one child with a developmental disability. Developmental disabilities are very common. Most people I know have at least one child with a DD.
You can raise children for so much less than $1700! We had 4 children when we made less than $30,000 a year, I was a stay at home mom for 12 years. I cooked meals at home, we went to the library and the park for fun. We scrimped and saved but it was worth it. You never get those young years back. ❤
your making a bad comparison. We did that too ,but that was back in the earlier 90's and we bought our first home ( house payment $300 month although my interest rate was 11.5%) $45,000. and then a few yrs later sold that home, and bought a home for $94,000 and now the market its worth $450,000.
@@sitka49it still happens now. My husband and I have four (5, 3, 2 and a baby), he is a school teacher, I stay home. We don't do things that cost money - so we do parks, libraries, beaches, and visiting nearby family - we cook at home, our kids wear hand-me-downs, and we only own one car. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. It isn't money, it is where our loves lie. Children aren't what people love nowadays.
@@katherinelipari6610Bless you! I lived your life 20 years ago. Mine are 25,22,20, and 18 now. I told myself to enjoy all of it. The good and the bad. Plenty of nights that I was so happy to get in my bed! The next morning I sure did love the excitement on our faces when we seen each other again. Some of it was so hard but most was totally awesome. Hope you are doing well now. Hang in there! Love ya!
our mortgage payment is 50% of our take-home pay. If my wife stay home with a baby my income alone is not enough to cover monthly expenses. We stoped using CC. This is one reason why we delayed having a kid. There's also medical reason we're unable to conceive naturally. I'm in my mid-40 wife is in her mid-30. biological window is closing soon
I used to think i would be a good dad and wanted kids when i was 18 but then my brother had kids and im so glad i decided i dont want kids after that. I cant stand the screaming, when they get sick, and i like sleeping enough to not want to be woken up in the middle of the night. But congratulations to you and your wife george ☺️.
It is good to know your preferences and the reasons why. Also any partner needs to understand and respect/agree with that perspective, so both can be responsible in achieving that decision. (No assumptions that you'll change your mind after a baby is intentionally conceived.)
We don’t need more help with childcare in this country; we need more help to enable parents to stay at home and raise their children. And we need a culture and society that is supportive of stay at home parenting and invested in stay at home parenting.
No doubt that if you have kids it will effect your finances and your ability to build wealth. It’s just a personal decision whether it’s worth it. My experience as someone about to hit 30 most of my friends either not plan on having kids or plan on having kids mid to late 30s. (I’m talking about guys)
Very interesting topic. A few things come to mind when it comes to the cost of children, so here's some unsolicited advice/tips: 1. Cloth diapers (more expensive upfront, far cheaper in the long run, and it's easier if you start out using cloth diapers as opposed to transitioning to them) 2. Work out a work schedule between you and your spouse so that you can raise your children as much as possible. It's difficult, but my wife and I only use a babysitter one day a week during the school year, since she's a teacher. 3. Don't be afraid to tell your child no, meaning that when they ask for something or say they want something, they don't necessarily need it. It's nice to treat them occasionally, as opposed to the treats becoming everyday life and are expected. This can go into further topics, but trying to keep it strictly to the financial aspect of all this. 4. Buying second hand/free items (George kind of touched on this one) 5. Breastfeeding when possible 6. Make your own baby food (and then you know what all the ingredients are too!). 7. Fewer child "containers" which get bulky, cause stress, and stub toes. (I.e. pack n play, bouncers, etc.) 8. Get your kid playing outside/it's ok to be bored (they're own creativity will be exercised, but trying to cater to boredom, just from a financial aspect, can get really expensive).
The reason people delay having children is so they don’t have to disappoint those children and make them go without. I have 4 kids and I never wanted to disappoint them or make them go without.
Congratulations!! Such happy news!! Encouragements (that helped me): 1. The tools and strengths that helped you deal and solve problems in your life so far, are the same tools that you will use to solve problems with parenting when they arise. 2. You have great family and friends to give you advice and help. Also, there are many resources in our modern world to help with parenting. You are not alone. 3. A very good idea to keep in mind is that you don't have to be the perfect parent, you only have to be a "good enough" parent. When you make mistakes you appologize and move on. Kids are very resilient. Congrats again!!
My physician assistant brother and sister in law asked me to live with them for a few months when the grandma who babysat their 4 and 7 year old had to have quintuple bypass surgery. I mention their jobs so readers know they are ok financially. I work remotely so I was able to stay with them and take grandma's place for a few months. I'm a 43 yr old woman. I love my niece and nephew. When I tell you my experience living with them only reaffirmed my earlier decision to not have kids...... the daily fights about picking up toys and starting the bedtime routine....the screaming about uncomfortable seatbelts.....the silent treatment the parents gave each other when they got mad...... the fights over who was cooking dinner.... oh no..... I love my niece and nephew. It was with joy I fled back to my house and my single child free life when grandma recovered. I don't live alone. I live with peace and quiet. And they are lovely companions who never fail me.
Another thing that often gets overlooked in this conversation: why would anyone want to have kids when you see a school shooting in the news every month, sometimes multiple times per month? Nobody ever thinks it will happen to their kids.
Congrats, George! You’ll be a wonderful dad.....you have the right mix of common sense, humor and kindness, qualities that will serve you well in parenthood!
Congratulations, George! I am a Proud dad of 12 children. I would love to talk to you all about some of the assumptions that were voiced in this episode. Raising children does not have to be expensive. Unless you make it expensive. We have raised our family with just my income, while my wife, homeschooled all of our children all of her children (7 of whom are still at home). We are a very close family and do a lot of wonderful things together, in fact, our adult children still go on vacation with us. I would love to give you my perspective on how fulfilling and enriching raising a large family is. It really saddens me to hear that people don’t want to have children because they fear money, wealth or retirement. No amount of money will ever replace the joy of having children.
Sadly to many people are selfish like the bible speaks...kids are a blessing!...its not always easy but God teaches us that it's not just about us...we are here to serve with love patience.
Congrats on the baby coming! Unfortunately money was the main factor in why we only have child. My husband doesn’t make enough to support me staying home and we can’t afford a second round of daycare with paying off all our debts and the mortgage. So we decided to have a more comfortable lifestyle and giving it all to our one kiddo.
Congratulations! You guys will be fine. We got 3 kids all teenagers now. My only recommendation if is possible stay home mom for the first 4 - 5 years intil kindergarten then back to work.
God forbid you have a kid that goes to the nicu when born boom 854k in debt my friend 3 months in nicu 2.3mil in debt. Don’t have a kid cause one thing goes wrong in that birthing room 100k plus easy in debt but nobody talk about that
Kids don’t have to cost that much per year. We made frugal choices (loved reading The Tightwad Gazette books) and probably spent less than $5k combined for our kids first 5 years. Cloth diapered, breast fed/pumped while at work, coordinated our work schedules to avoid childcare expenses (I worked part time until youngest was 9). Garage sales for clothes and sundries, reused all items for second kid. FYI, we retired at age 47 and 52 respectively and are debt free including our house. Our kids are 21 & 24 now. It was a mindset that we both subscribed to…. I admit, he required some convincing, but soon enough was on board. 😂
@noazucar519 We didn’t buy a home until we were in our late 30s. Because we scrimped and saved, we had a 20% down payment. Kids shouldn’t expect to have the same standard of living their parents do. That’s part of the problem. We always rented the least expensive house we could find that was in a decent area until we had been married 11 years. We always paid cash for cars and never took out loans, so our money went sooo much further. That’s the key!!
Just to prove the fact that so many people are choosing to be childless, here’s my experience. I’m 26 years old living in ATL. I’m originally from Kansas and have a rather large group of friends in both states. My wife and I are the only couple out of all of our friends (12+ couples) who are planning to have kids in the future. Almost all of our friends are married, but all have stated that they will not be having kids. I completely understand and am not judging, as I thought I didn’t want kids for a while. Either way, it’s interesting how many people these days are choosing to be childless.
George: millennials and Gen z are not having enough children to sustain AMERICAS population. I don’t know what that means, are we going to go extinct as HUMANS? 😂😂😂 No George, there ARE humans outside of AMERICA.
Congrats George! First time dad listening! I first saw the TH-cam Short and was confused about “her.” So I had to listen to the longer video to get the context! A little bit of advice: don’t rely on the internet too much, you and your wife are kiddos parents, not some random person online.
I have a six year old, and I've always brought him basic play clothes like jeans and a t-shirt. We didn't try to dress him like a stylish man. We were pretty practical and have spent $100-$300 per year on clothes.
my relative saved up to have baby. it needed to fly to another hospital and his blue collar insurance doesn’t cover the helicopter. baby costs 50K now. yeah, tell poor people to just have kids , it’s just a line item…… so simple lol 😅
We're "freshly baked" parents. Honestly I don't see the usd 17'000 per year happening. I would like to see what that number consists of. Really depends on your lifestyle. We get everything second hand, it costs us next to nothing. Clothing, furniture, toys etc. Formula is our biggest expense right now. We live a simple life, work part time, rent our apartment. Having a baby is bigger than money. It's by far the best thing I have ever done. Kids need your love, your patience. They don't care if their clothes are second hand. My advice for anybody is - go for it. And enjoy it. God's on your side.
The comments of ppl saying “we make $100k plus per year and we can’t afford to have more than one kid” Y’all have very different standards of living than many of us lol.
100K is not as lavish as people make it out to be. $2600 - Cheap mortgage nowadays (includes prop tax, insurance, etc. assumes only a 300K loan at current interest rates) $200 - cheap utilities (includes internet) $500 - cheap health insurance $500 - groceries, food, toiletries, etc $300 - total cost for 2 cheap car loans $200 - gas $100 - cheap car insurance for 2 cars That’s already $4400 per month, just on the basics. Doesn’t include any savings, wants, emergencies or unexpected costs (home repairs, car repairs, etc.). If a married couple makes 100K their take home pay is probably around $6500 per month. Even if they could invest that entire $2100 (and avoid spending anything on wants, and avoid all unexpected costs for the next 30 years) into their retirement each month and make a 9.5% return per year for the next 30 years, they’d have 4.27M, which, at the recommended 4% withdrawal rate, is only 78K per year (in today’s money) for their retirement. Hopefully by that point the house is paid off, but there’s really not a whole lot of wiggle room at 100K, unless you never want to buy a home, or until interest rates come back down to a reasonable level. Everyone making less, and saving less, will be reliant on social security, which probably won’t be enough.
My daughter is only 9 months old and already has her Daddy wrapped around her finger! You won’t have a life for about 4 months but after that you can leave them with family and go out. And boy do you need to go out! Also those bull dogs will become super annoying because they will be jealous just be prepared hahaha. We also spend less than 60 bucks a month on our baby. Cloth diapers and wipes are the bomb and super easy to use now. We don’t buy formula and our baby eats what we eat. We also shop at Once Upon a Child because they only wear it a little bit so don’t buy new. I always get compliments on how cute my baby is dressed and it’s all used to hand me downs. It doesn’t have to be expensive if you don’t buy into all the fluff they say a baby “needs”.
Congrats, George!! We had our first 4 months ago, and let me say, the lack of sleep isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes out. I honestly sleep better now than when I was pregnant lol.
Congratulations George! Just wanted to comment that childbirth in the US cost so much that I want to throw up thinking about it. I don’t know the numbers, but it might be one of a few countries that charge you for having babies. I had my first one in Japan, the whole prenatal and childbirth was subsidized by health insurance. The overall experience was very good. I had the baby and stayed 5 days in the private clinic with awesome food and child care all for $5000, $4000 of which was subsidized by government health insurance. Had my second one here in the US and was charged around $9000 for something that my body actually did by itself for 24 hr hospital stay, and of course they charge the baby too to charge more. It is so broken and it is really not a shocker why people don’t want to have a baby
I agree that healthcare in America is expensive in you don't have insurance. But the truth is only four percent of hospital births in the US are uninsured so that is a small minority.
Don't let "not being able to buy a house" stop you from having kids? Where are you going to live then? Renting Ramsey's apartment buildings? My Goodness! No way a 15-year mortgage makes sense with the current prices so imagine waiting longer to get into a 30-year mortgage? You'll be paying on that until you're 75 years old. Prices have changed significantly since the 1980s.
I've been somewhat rookie binging the Ramsey show the last few months, stumbled on this show recently, and have to say, I'm really enjoying it! You two are a lot of fun, while still holding intelligent conversation with good advice. Cheers!
That, but also people hearing others say that and drinking the fear Kool-Aid. Buying that it HAS to cost that much, they can't have a kid unless they can give it an upper middle class life, they need a purchased home first, each kid needs their own room, they need all the top end safety stuff, etc. More money makes it easier, but 80% of what people sell you as necessary isn't necessary at all
I could afford a kid. I have a house and make about 75k a year. But kids are not a high priority for me. I’ve held off on getting a cat or dog too because they seem like a lot of extra responsibility that I’m not necessarily ready-for. A partner and kids is so much more. 😆 Perhaps I’ll start with my pet first in the next year or so and see how that goes.
Rachel, is there any way you can convince your dad that babies and kids are expensive? I'm so glad you realize (and admit) they are. I love you for standing up to THE Dave Ramsey with regards to many issues.😊❤️
This is a great video. Having kids at an early age taught me to budget. I would take my kids to free parks or to state parks on $5 to park day. We mostly ate meals at home and clothing was on a Budget but we had each other.
Telling the teacher in the midwest making 40-50k to work the snowball on the 100k of debt. Guess what the issue of the student loan crisis is the minimum payments you would make on the loans the balance actually continues to run away from them. Yes the Govt has a bad track record of fixing things but they HAVE to do something about this one or that economic collapse everyone is worried about is assuredly happening.
Totally not complaining, but from my perspective-- working backward from having children-- it's getting married, meeting my future spouse, going on dates (or going out where I can meet women), paying off my debt (baby step 2), and paying for all of that with cash. I haven't given up hope, I just know that it's probably way down the road for me, and I'm already 32 so I won't be a young dad unfortunately. I have faith it'll all work out though.
Yes there is a range of things you can buy but it is very expensive for childcare. I live in Virginia and was quoted 4k a month for two children in daycare. A lot of people don’t get paid maternity leave so that’s also a loss of income. Average hospital bill for a birth in the us is around 8k. Healthcare is expensive etc. No way around it kids are expensive.
I have no desire to have kids at all. I wish i got a chance to meet a man who is okay with NOT having kids. Childfree dating is so hard. Every man seems to WANT it :-(
Congratulations on baby #1! I appreciate y’all discussing the cost of childcare and medical care. I’m a nurse and my husband is a teacher and we have next to no family help (family lives out of state). I work on call and the weekend (which pays more anyway) and my husband works the weekdays. I work extra during holiday breaks. Our daughter is one and we want to have a second one soon but definitely are thinking about the financial implications. I think when our daughter starts going to school things will be much easier and we want to have kids semi close in age to help with that too. Can y’all do a segment where y’all do empathy scenarios? Like pull and income and life event out of a hat and break down how you would handle the situation? Thanks for the content. I would like to see more lower middle or true middle class advice.
Having kids definitely delayed my retirement and I do look on my childless compadres with jealousy. However, I do love my children and grandchildren. The analytical side of me woild not do it again, the emotional side definitely would.
We feel very blessed to be pregnant with our 3rd child. We are also still paying off debt. It has hurt to have to pause our debt payoff to save the money for the hospital bills and the supplies we will need for this baby. We thought we were done after number 2, and there is a big age gap, and we got rid of everything. So we are starting over from scratch needing all new gear. Even though 95% of everything will be bought second hand, it still does negatively impact our debt payoff journey.
I don't have kids, so I don't really have much of a dog in this fight at the moment. But I do want kids. Anyway, I think the notion of "we shouldn't have to" definitely applies to some things, but my instinct is to push back a little on it. There's a, likely unintentional, assumption in what you said that value always goes up with cost, but that just isn't always the case.
Congrats! ❤ my advice is for babyshower, ask for diapers size 5 and pullups 3/4t, thats the age and size thats expensive and takes a while. Everything else you can get handmedown, NEVER the diapers
Most people can get by with clothes and diapers. Where I live I spent money at consignment and bought new or barely used for years. I didn't need a diaper bank but we had those too and they get thousands of donations. I did run up some credit cards staying home but it was much cheaper than daycare with my salary and I paid them off in time. I never regretted one second not having the angst of what to do when they are sick, what to do when there is a closing or weather event, what to do when daycare calls to get your kid midday, and all the other stuff that comes with daycare. We all make choices but I was frugal and card was for emergencies but everyone is different. For me emotionally and monetarily, it worked most of the time.
Yes! Babies have their whole lives ahead of them to wear other things. But infancy is the only time when it is socially acceptable to go almost anywhere in what you slept in. Prioritizing comfort makes it easier on parents too because most of the comfortable baby clothes are easier when it is time to change a diaper.
@@katemiller7874 okay but was the “my kids looked good” comment necessary? 🙄 My kids wore cute comfy onesies that weren’t made of jeans, collared shirts or rigid fabric. There is a middle ground that isn’t just PJs.
Please think about the life you are asking to be here. Look at your day to day, financials, networth and health. Ask yourself if you would want to be thrust into that situation.
George, congrats! Hand me downs are great for the first five years and saves thousands. Don't let ego get in the way of a blessing. (It also makes it easier to pass on to others..."we were given this and it was so great!)"
I bought a new home in 2021. I broke the 25% mortgage payment vs take home pay. I needed an office since I work from home…I also don’t have gas and parking expenses like I used to commuting 2 hours a day 👍
George and Rachel, This is something that neither of you understand. George doesn’t have kids “yet” and Rachel was born into a wealthy family (lives in a $4 million house). Kids are very expensive for the average people.
Baby crib and mattress from Ikea is under 200 dollars and fits until age 3. Carseats are 60 dollars at Wal-Mart, and used baby clothes are a dollar per item (unless they're free). Diapers are 50 dollars a month, unless you cloth diaper. Then you can get all the supplies for under 150 and use them for years. Babies can be expensive, but they don't have to be.
She wasn’t born into a wealthy family…her family became wealthy because of her dad’s hard work. And she has talked about this before but the house that her parents are living in she didn’t even live in. They got it when she went away to college.
The biggest issue to me is the medical cost after the birth of a child. My wife and I are still paying on medical bills from my daughter being born and she is 2 now!!!!! That was with insurance!!!! The US Healthcare system is fraud and ridiculous.
@@ASMR_With_Chels It is safe to think at least 2K but the problem is their wage likely did not increase over that period to time. I say bull normally we run into issue when our buying power and wage don't increase over time.
"The US Healthcare system is fraud and ridiculous" You mean the lack of universal healthcare, right? Not the actual science and technology itself, right? Agreed. Obviously. So, be smart: DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO HARM. Don't breed.
@@AnonN-sr6uu If they were poverty it wouldnt cost them a dime more than likely. The company I worked for didn't pay top dollar ,but they had great insurance in the beginning it was nothing out of pocket ( $75 month family, and single coverage it was no cost) - Before i quit yrs later they had for the health the best insurance you could get was ( $800 for family) it was deductible $3000 - ( after that it was 80% up to $10,000 then it was covered a 100%) after you meet the 3K deductible for a family - They had a high end deductible for the first $10,000. You had to bank $ in HSA out of ea pay period, and the company would contribute a % so you had $500 month for insurance and plus your contribution too, and on top of that all your other deductions. - Small peanuts if you have major incident ( heartattack) but I can see it that having a kid would set you back for a few years.
People are having fewer kids today because it is very expensive to have them. Contrary to religious beliefs, it is YOU the PARENT that is financially responsible for the upbringing of your progeny and money does not come "magically" from Above. You need to WORK for it. Especially in the US but also in many EU countries, having kids is expensive. Moreover, define "fewer". What's wrong with only two kids? Why need 5? The world is getting more and more crowdy and resources are limited. I wish everybody to have a family, but the notion that you need so many kids is really outdated. It's ridiculous that in the tax code you can have like 8 dependent on your tax return. It should be capped to max three or four. Talking about US, I live in a vehemently RED state and I hear more people around me that red states don't create a conducive environment to have kids to begin with. If your pregnancy for whatever reason has medical problems, you are screwed. Younger women simply say "forget it" and focus on career. At my work, you women in their mid twenties are paying off student loans, they have nephews and nieces thus a good family setting and they themselves don't want kids. Period! Whether or not that's a good thing is a different discussion but I can imagine a woman living in a red state may simply not WANTING to become pregnant. So I see a decline in the future. Demographics is a very cool field...
FWIW, the tax code is capped, at least somewhat. You can claim all your children on your taxes, no matter how many you have, but you only get "credit" (tax break/money) for up to 3. The year they turn 17, they are no longer considered dependents. Example: If you have 4 children, ages 17, 15, 13, 11 -- you've been given the credit for child 1 for 16 years, and can no longer claim them. You can now get credit for your 11 year old, though, for the next 5 years... So there is a cap, but it's not a limit on number of children you can claim. I had all but one of my children in red states. I'm not really sure why being in a red/blue state makes a difference if you want children. 🤷🏻♀️
@@PookysMom6 As far as the tax code is concerned, thanks for the explanation. As far as red/blue states is concerned, who wants to be pregnant in a red state, in case there is a complication of such a nature that you, your husband and your doc come to the conclusion that it is better to terminate, that is going to be tough in a red state as the religious politician also wants a place at the discussion table and subsequently wants to take the lead in determining what's right for you?. I wouldn't accept that, but that's just me.
My wife and I have 1 daughter who just turned 4. We are both 38 and have been debating on having another. Leaning NO as of now, and money is a big part of why. $125k household income, not a ton of debt, and are very comfortable financially right now. Having another sounds like a good idea on surface, but is borerline terrifying money wise! Next year will be a huge pay raise for both of us once daycare costs are cut! 😂. And I also want to be able to give my daughter any and everything she ever wants or deserves, and feel having another may not allow for that. 😢
Being a single child sucks. It is very isolating, and puts a lot of pressure on them- do you want them to bury you by themselves? Have to care for you when you're older all alone? There is also single child syndrome- single children can be very selfish since the whole world revolves around them growing up. I was almost a single child and I thank God my mom pushed for another. Good luck to you guys
@@janelleg597 That’s not a very nice or helpful comment. That was your experience. Not everyone has a terrible view of being an only child. Also some parents are unable to have more than one. You make the most out of whatever your life situation is.
I say: Don't wait. Have another child. With two kids you are more of a family. It is very good for the child not to have to carry all of his parents' expectations. Two kids have each other and the parents don't put all their attention and hopes and fears on one small person. Anyway, this is my opinion, for what's it worth.
I’m an only child and have never wanted a sibling. I’m 32 now with an only child of my own. It doesn’t seem better or worse having siblings just different. There is no guarantee that siblings will be best friends. If I were to have a second it would be because I wanted to parent more children. If your happy parenting one that is great! You have found contentment!
@claireschell2917 I have a cousin who is a single child also. She's 22 now and she's told us that she has always loved being an only child and wouldn't change it for anything. I think that there are pros and cons to each. As long as you are close with other family members, an only child will never be truly alone in the world, as Im sure youre aware. There will/should always be other family members for the kid to rely on where siblings would rely on one another. And as stated, there's no guarantee siblings will be close in life either.
I wish I could have had kids younger but it always seemed like my partner(s) at the time made it out to be a money thing. Even with no debt and me owning my own home. It sucks. Kids are not that expensive. You can make it expensive though. I will agree families don’t make enough to support their families though. I heard a stat the other day that less than 9% of people age 30 or older make over $100k. So yeah from that stat alone I understand why men don’t want kids. We need more higher paying jobs. Let men/women provide for their families. We should be able to feel comfortable and support a family off one income
I tell my parents this. I'm not even dating with intention until I get the next promotion to 250-300k. I ain't clipping wawa coupons and I'm not changing diapers. Stay at home momma's cost dough and men gotta work hard till their 30's before settling down or you gonna be living like a middle class 1930's family lol
CONGRATULATIONS 😍We're expecting number 4 in October and are in baby step 3B I think...🤔just working on the house for debt! Anyway, girls are the BEST! We have 2 girls and they are SO dramatic 🙄 but fun! You got this ❤
Thank you all for the sweet, congratulatory comments! Had to let my SMHH peeps be the first to know! ❤
Congratulations!!
Congratulations!!
Congratulations George & Whitney!
congrats on the baby girl! very excited for you
Congrats!
Part of it is also higher expectations. I've been told by my own parents that if I can't provide the same quality of living as I had growing up, then I wouldn't be a good parent. Meaning, if I can't afford a single family home, be a stay at home mom and pay for their college. Attaining that lifestyle is much more difficult than it was when my parents were my age.
Oh bull. We made less money, interest rates were higher in the 80’s we worked our asses off
@@katemiller7874 I'm sure you did work hard. But housing is still more expensive than it was 40 years ago and wages haven't kept up with inflation. Average daycare cost is 243.77% higher than it was in 1990. And I would need daycare because my spouse and I both work full time, unlike my parents in the 1980s.
What??? Plenty of good parents don’t have single family houses, pay for college etc. I’m a single parent if 3 and we are just fine.
@@K-sd5so I know it's possible but my parents believe it's not ok for me to "bring down" their grandkids. I.e. have a lower standard of living than what I had growing up. Basically I should have married a millionaire or won the lottery 😅 my parents are just being stuck up and guilt tripping me.
I feel you, it's so hard. Inflation over the past 5 years has been insane. Housing prices DOUBLED in my area going from 200k to 400k. If I had graduated 5 years later, I would not have been able to afford to live in what used to be an affordable town in GA. Groceries are so much more. It's not like incomes doubled within 5 years!!
Here is why I haven’t had kids: I spent ten years curing myself of a serious eating disorder. I was not mentally, physically or socially in the place to take care of anyone but myself. Recovery was a full-time job; very worth it but serious consequences came with devoting a decade of my prime years to survival.
Good example! It is true that health considerations are important. That could be mental, emotional, spiritual, relational, and/or physical health. Responsible parents are ideally healthy adults.
God bless you.
@@mauricioh6716 thank you! Much appreciated! I feel blessed to be better and able to enjoy life! That is worth a ton!
I liked this discussion but just some honest feedback- I think it's easy to sit and say don't let finances stop you from having kids when you're millionaires. It just feels a little easy for you to say that from where you sit. I still somewhat agree with you but it depends on the circumstances of each person. If you are in deep debt or struggling to afford rent or something, it is a very real consideration.
Agree. Our kid had some needs that weren't expensive, necessarily, but did keep me from working. It's been tight and if we'd still been in debt when we got pregnant, and I couldn't work, we'd still be in debt today four years later.
No Kidding. Not to mention that this country (the US) is very anti-parent. attainable jobs rarely accommodate parents and single moms, and if you can't have a good enough paying job how are you going to afford daycare and more expensive housing in addition to the default costs of raising a kid? It feels impossible.
They didn't deny the fact, "it will cost $300,000 from when they're young up until they're 18".
So that's why they said you need to prepare and budget. They spent like 20 minutes talking about the costs.. you must've missed it.
I think one thing that wasn't talked about is also when we delay in having kids, when you are financially 'stable', it would be much later in your life, health and fertility is a factor.
@@JL-ds1pi spot on.
Yea the more I listened the more these two sounded out of touch with regular people. No doubt they’re rich talking like that
Awesome show. We have 3 children and money was really tight when they were little because I stayed home with them. They had no idea. They had love and toys and each other. Best years of our lives!
The amount of generosity from loving friends and family is amazing when having children, everyone chips in, hand down cloths, big ticket items, pack n plays, swings, toys, etc.
Not my people, except my mom
@novakd1530 In a bubble that includes good people that uplift one another
Novak D - they are speaking from their personal experience. It was the same in our family
I wish that were true for everyone, OP. 😞
That's not the stuff that makes babies expensive. If you have bad insurance (I was blessed that way) it can be very expensive, daycare/nursery school, and don't get me started how crazy playing a sport is. I'm glad my kids wanted music and things like that, I saved thousands.
My husband & I are renting an apartment right now with a toddler and another baby on the way. Our budget is tight but I am happy we are having kids now and not waiting. Kids are a blessing. Congratulations George on your new little one! You will be a great dad.
Yes there’s time to have babies but anytime you can make many
Saying don’t let finances stop you from having kids is like saying don’t let mental illness stop you from having kids. They’re both valid reasons to hold off on that decisions. I don’t want to negatively affect another human being because I’m not mentally or physically prepared to give them what they need.
Peace and Love tho
Congrats George!!!! FYI George, some of the best girl dads are the super buff ones whose hearts melt when their girls are around. Basically a super protector that shows their soft side.
Congratulations, George & Whitney! It's going to be fun for everyone to see how you grow as a dad and share your experiences!
There’s gatta be a part 2 you guys!
There’s strollers for 2k, and there’s strollers for $100 bucks. Same with car seats, bassinets, cribs and everything else… I think comparing prices and stuff would be super useful for this episode:)
Don’t over spend where you don’t need to! Congrats you guys :)
But ya make sure they are safe.
So true! Spend money on the carseat but it doesn't have to be plush. We spent around $200.
We spent 600$ on child bed that could go from bassinet, to crib, to day bed. (Unfortunately, we didn't give it away soon enough and the kids broke the box spring.) Friends were looking for one and we felt so bad that we couldn't pass it on.
Only spent $100 on clothes.
Every thing else was freely given.
Diapers were our #1 cost. 😢
There was a study that NPR discussed some time ago about the biggest factor that influences the childbirth rate of a society was women’s education level. School, college, university, then starting a career & so on pushes the ages to when women have kids to later. Add that people are getting married later in life, couples will have fewer years to get pregnant & have kids (without the risk of age-related pregnancy complications) which results in fewer children being born.
Yea they didnt mention most of this at all. Good info
Good point. I remember reading about that study.
Was it specifically done in America? Because there are PLENTY of countries that allow over a year (more than 52 weeks) of paid parental leave to mothers and fathers that I would imagine make spending a few early years in college to invest in oneself less impactful on childbirth rates. However, in America, there is little parental leave at all, little support for parents, huge focus on individualism & capitalism, etc. This country (and the culture it’s created) doesn’t care about its citizens. As a 27 year old woman I would love to start a family and live a good life (not necessarily a lavish one) similar to the one I had growing up (3 bedroom house with big backyard, public school + tutoring and after school activities, 2 paid for used cars, etc.) but that is nearly impossible now. Both of my parents have degrees as well. I believe the low birth rates have more to do with culture and policy than college education.
@@GoJojo-lv6zi I’m not sure if that study was US only, but there have been other studies or news stories I’ve heard that looked at Sub-Saharan Africa & came to the same conclusion. It’s the same in every culture & society - as more options other than having kids are available to women, the birth rate trends downward. As for more paid leave to have kids, I think it’s Denmark that has 52 weeks paid but their birth rate hasn’t risen to replacement level & stayed relatively flat.
My parents were both born and raised in Sub-Saharan Africa and they provided the life I mentioned above to my sibling and myself in America, after getting their degrees. My father has a bachelor's degree and my mother has a master's degree as well. I have plenty of educated millennial family members who were born and raised in Sub-Saharan Africa and still live there to this day who (both parents) have degrees and have children. The economy, culture, and capitalist/individualistic policies in America (crippling student debt, expensive or inaccessible healthcare, little work-life balance, and everything else I mentioned before) have a lot (almost everything imo) to do with the lower childbirth rates.
It’s all of it. Rachel lists the parameters, yeah, that’s part of the reason why and they’re time expensive too. Not just money, but time.
More women started working. More households became two income. Higher household incomes meant bigger houses. The new standard had been set. Creating an increasingly harder environment for a one income household to survive financially. I’m a stay at home mom. My husband works. It has been hard. We have three children and are definitely not the norm but it can be done.
Have Dave Ramsey build a daycare center in his business for the working parents that work for him. Congratulations George and Whitney.🎉
I felt bad when a worker got pregnant and he let her go breaking the "no sex" rule. Seemed mean but he is not like that with callers. I guess he separates the two. I do think a daycare is a good idea though.
Childcare is by far the biggest culprit, I currently make ~$1,000 a week and pay $467 a week to daycare. It cost more than my mortgage payment.
The most expensive part of having kids isn't the material things I buy them. It's paying to fix their mistakes lol when they break something whether in the home or at a store, I have to pay to replace it! I never realized how big of an expense this would be before having kids.
Don’t touch in stores should be the first thing you teach them
I’d like to say it’s both lol
This is true. I no longer buy new items for my house. I check the community apps for items posted for sale. My children have damaged more than a few items. Lol.
I have two boys. 13 and 6. They have never broken anything at anyone’s house or a store. If that’s your number one complaint, I’m a little baffled honestly.
The most expensive mistake my kid made is cutting her own hair and it cost 40 bucks to fix it
Price of homes, costs of childcare, price of food and education. Add to that, toxic masculinity agenda in media and lack of opportunities or stable jobs. We have record debt and they wonder why we don't want to have kids. Then preference to women in divorce settlements since most marriages end that way.
Congratulations George and Whitney!! This is such happy news. You’ll be a great dad🎉🎉🎉
It's Thursday and time for SMH²!!! I'm soooooooooooo happy for Klan Kamel with a K!!! We had our daughter late in life- I was a month from 40th birthday when my daughter was born in August of 2010, she is our only kiddo. Looking forward to hearing about you being a dad. Great job as always Rachel, George & Team SMH² - keep up the awesome job!
I don't think spelling "clan" with a "K" is very popular anymore lol
I would say yes, having a child affects pur financial goals. We haven't started BS4 because we are choosing to spend $400-$600 per month on therapies and appointments for one child with a developmental disability.
Developmental disabilities are very common. Most people I know have at least one child with a DD.
My husband has ADD. Highly recommend getting an English-speaking therapist in Mexico or another cheaper country. We save a ton!
I love my son, But my 2 daughters have always had my heart,and know just how to get to me., Congratulations George and Whitney.
You can raise children for so much less than $1700! We had 4 children when we made less than $30,000 a year, I was a stay at home mom for 12 years. I cooked meals at home, we went to the library and the park for fun. We scrimped and saved but it was worth it. You never get those young years back. ❤
Thank you!!
You received public assistance
your making a bad comparison. We did that too ,but that was back in the earlier 90's and we bought our first home ( house payment $300 month although my interest rate was 11.5%) $45,000. and then a few yrs later sold that home, and bought a home for $94,000 and now the market its worth $450,000.
@@sitka49it still happens now. My husband and I have four (5, 3, 2 and a baby), he is a school teacher, I stay home. We don't do things that cost money - so we do parks, libraries, beaches, and visiting nearby family - we cook at home, our kids wear hand-me-downs, and we only own one car. Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also. It isn't money, it is where our loves lie. Children aren't what people love nowadays.
@@katherinelipari6610Bless you! I lived your life 20 years ago. Mine are 25,22,20, and 18 now. I told myself to enjoy all of it. The good and the bad. Plenty of nights that I was so happy to get in my bed! The next morning I sure did love the excitement on our faces when we seen each other again. Some of it was so hard but most was totally awesome. Hope you are doing well now. Hang in there! Love ya!
our mortgage payment is 50% of our take-home pay. If my wife stay home with a baby my income alone is not enough to cover monthly expenses. We stoped using CC. This is one reason why we delayed having a kid. There's also medical reason we're unable to conceive naturally. I'm in my mid-40 wife is in her mid-30. biological window is closing soon
George is emotionally intelligent which is why he would be a great dad regardless of gender, and just good person over all
🎉Congratulations George and Whitney!!!! God bless you on this new stage of life!!! ❤️
I used to think i would be a good dad and wanted kids when i was 18 but then my brother had kids and im so glad i decided i dont want kids after that. I cant stand the screaming, when they get sick, and i like sleeping enough to not want to be woken up in the middle of the night. But congratulations to you and your wife george ☺️.
It is good to know your preferences and the reasons why. Also any partner needs to understand and respect/agree with that perspective, so both can be responsible in achieving that decision. (No assumptions that you'll change your mind after a baby is intentionally conceived.)
We don’t need more help with childcare in this country; we need more help to enable parents to stay at home and raise their children. And we need a culture and society that is supportive of stay at home parenting and invested in stay at home parenting.
Like 1970's and prior.
No doubt that if you have kids it will effect your finances and your ability to build wealth. It’s just a personal decision whether it’s worth it. My experience as someone about to hit 30 most of my friends either not plan on having kids or plan on having kids mid to late 30s. (I’m talking about guys)
It's dangerous listening to George and Rachel on public transit. Many times I've had to stop myself from breaking out in laughter.
Congratulations George & Whitney! Such couple goals! Thanks for inspiring us!
Very interesting topic. A few things come to mind when it comes to the cost of children, so here's some unsolicited advice/tips:
1. Cloth diapers (more expensive upfront, far cheaper in the long run, and it's easier if you start out using cloth diapers as opposed to transitioning to them)
2. Work out a work schedule between you and your spouse so that you can raise your children as much as possible. It's difficult, but my wife and I only use a babysitter one day a week during the school year, since she's a teacher.
3. Don't be afraid to tell your child no, meaning that when they ask for something or say they want something, they don't necessarily need it. It's nice to treat them occasionally, as opposed to the treats becoming everyday life and are expected. This can go into further topics, but trying to keep it strictly to the financial aspect of all this.
4. Buying second hand/free items (George kind of touched on this one)
5. Breastfeeding when possible
6. Make your own baby food (and then you know what all the ingredients are too!).
7. Fewer child "containers" which get bulky, cause stress, and stub toes. (I.e. pack n play, bouncers, etc.)
8. Get your kid playing outside/it's ok to be bored (they're own creativity will be exercised, but trying to cater to boredom, just from a financial aspect, can get really expensive).
The reason people delay having children is so they don’t have to disappoint those children and make them go without. I have 4 kids and I never wanted to disappoint them or make them go without.
Congratulations!! Such happy news!!
Encouragements (that helped me):
1. The tools and strengths that helped you deal and solve problems in your life so far, are the same tools that you will use to solve problems with parenting when they arise.
2. You have great family and friends to give you advice and help. Also, there are many resources in our modern world to help with parenting. You are not alone.
3. A very good idea to keep in mind is that you don't have to be the perfect parent, you only have to be a "good enough" parent. When you make mistakes you appologize and move on. Kids are very resilient.
Congrats again!!
My physician assistant brother and sister in law asked me to live with them for a few months when the grandma who babysat their 4 and 7 year old had to have quintuple bypass surgery. I mention their jobs so readers know they are ok financially. I work remotely so I was able to stay with them and take grandma's place for a few months. I'm a 43 yr old woman. I love my niece and nephew. When I tell you my experience living with them only reaffirmed my earlier decision to not have kids...... the daily fights about picking up toys and starting the bedtime routine....the screaming about uncomfortable seatbelts.....the silent treatment the parents gave each other when they got mad...... the fights over who was cooking dinner.... oh no..... I love my niece and nephew. It was with joy I fled back to my house and my single child free life when grandma recovered. I don't live alone. I live with peace and quiet. And they are lovely companions who never fail me.
We paid $25,000 in one year just daycare alone
That's insane!! How many kids do y'all have?
Another thing that often gets overlooked in this conversation: why would anyone want to have kids when you see a school shooting in the news every month, sometimes multiple times per month? Nobody ever thinks it will happen to their kids.
Congrats, George! You’ll be a wonderful dad.....you have the right mix of common sense, humor and kindness, qualities that will serve you well in parenthood!
Congrats George and Whitney! The joy you will feel having children will far outweigh any money myths :)
Don’t worry- Nick Cannon has the US’s population back on track.😂
Hes doing the best he can.😂
Doesn’t make me feel better lol
single handedly
Lol… my husband was talking about this the other day 😂😂
Congratulations to George and Whitney on your pregnancy, I'm so pleased for you both. ❤
Congratulations, George! I am a Proud dad of 12 children. I would love to talk to you all about some of the assumptions that were voiced in this episode. Raising children does not have to be expensive. Unless you make it expensive. We have raised our family with just my income, while my wife, homeschooled all of our children all of her children (7 of whom are still at home). We are a very close family and do a lot of wonderful things together, in fact, our adult children still go on vacation with us. I would love to give you my perspective on how fulfilling and enriching raising a large family is. It really saddens me to hear that people don’t want to have children because they fear money, wealth or retirement. No amount of money will ever replace the joy of having children.
🎯
Sadly to many people are selfish like the bible speaks...kids are a blessing!...its not always easy but God teaches us that it's not just about us...we are here to serve with love patience.
Very cool, StHubert. I'm one of 11 kids, myself. The oldest is 43 and the youngest just turned 20. You're not wrong. God bless your family.
I'm one of 12 kids and while dad worked a lot as a self-employed man, we had a full childhood. All homeschooled in the country.
@@sackettfamily4685 that's awesome. All 11 of us were homeschooled as well.
It's not just wanting to retire early, life has gotten a lot more expensive lately.
Retire early? just for most they would be happy to retire at 65?
Congrats on the baby coming! Unfortunately money was the main factor in why we only have child. My husband doesn’t make enough to support me staying home and we can’t afford a second round of daycare with paying off all our debts and the mortgage. So we decided to have a more comfortable lifestyle and giving it all to our one kiddo.
The debt that the average American is living with is one of the reasons many don't want to start a family and can't afford a house.
Congratulations!
You guys will be fine.
We got 3 kids all teenagers now. My only recommendation if is possible stay home mom for the first 4 - 5 years intil kindergarten then back to work.
God forbid you have a kid that goes to the nicu when born boom 854k in debt my friend 3 months in nicu 2.3mil in debt. Don’t have a kid cause one thing goes wrong in that birthing room 100k plus easy in debt but nobody talk about that
Kids don’t have to cost that much per year. We made frugal choices (loved reading The Tightwad Gazette books) and probably spent less than $5k combined for our kids first 5 years. Cloth diapered, breast fed/pumped while at work, coordinated our work schedules to avoid childcare expenses (I worked part time until youngest was 9). Garage sales for clothes and sundries, reused all items for second kid. FYI, we retired at age 47 and 52 respectively and are debt free including our house. Our kids are 21 & 24 now. It was a mindset that we both subscribed to…. I admit, he required some convincing, but soon enough was on board. 😂
@noazucar519 We didn’t buy a home until we were in our late 30s. Because we scrimped and saved, we had a 20% down payment. Kids shouldn’t expect to have the same standard of living their parents do. That’s part of the problem. We always rented the least expensive house we could find that was in a decent area until we had been married 11 years. We always paid cash for cars and never took out loans, so our money went sooo much further. That’s the key!!
Just to prove the fact that so many people are choosing to be childless, here’s my experience. I’m 26 years old living in ATL. I’m originally from Kansas and have a rather large group of friends in both states. My wife and I are the only couple out of all of our friends (12+ couples) who are planning to have kids in the future. Almost all of our friends are married, but all have stated that they will not be having kids. I completely understand and am not judging, as I thought I didn’t want kids for a while. Either way, it’s interesting how many people these days are choosing to be childless.
George: millennials and Gen z are not having enough children to sustain AMERICAS population. I don’t know what that means, are we going to go extinct as HUMANS? 😂😂😂
No George, there ARE humans outside of AMERICA.
EXACTLY!
There’s also immigration.
We will be just fine😂 the world is overpopulated as it is
You guys make a great partnership! I enjoy the banter and humour (and yes, the mocktails as well!)
Congrats George! First time dad listening! I first saw the TH-cam Short and was confused about “her.” So I had to listen to the longer video to get the context!
A little bit of advice: don’t rely on the internet too much, you and your wife are kiddos parents, not some random person online.
I have a six year old, and I've always brought him basic play clothes like jeans and a t-shirt. We didn't try to dress him like a stylish man. We were pretty practical and have spent $100-$300 per year on clothes.
Plus boys don’t care about clothes. Girls do
George you are about to add to the population.
Congratulations George and Whitney!!! 🎉🎉🎉
my relative saved up to have baby. it needed to fly to another hospital and his blue collar insurance doesn’t cover the helicopter. baby costs 50K now.
yeah, tell poor people to just have kids , it’s just a line item…… so simple lol 😅
We're "freshly baked" parents. Honestly I don't see the usd 17'000 per year happening. I would like to see what that number consists of. Really depends on your lifestyle. We get everything second hand, it costs us next to nothing. Clothing, furniture, toys etc. Formula is our biggest expense right now. We live a simple life, work part time, rent our apartment. Having a baby is bigger than money. It's by far the best thing I have ever done. Kids need your love, your patience. They don't care if their clothes are second hand. My advice for anybody is - go for it. And enjoy it. God's on your side.
The comments of ppl saying “we make $100k plus per year and we can’t afford to have more than one kid”
Y’all have very different standards of living than many of us lol.
100K is not as lavish as people make it out to be.
$2600 - Cheap mortgage nowadays (includes prop tax, insurance, etc. assumes only a 300K loan at current interest rates)
$200 - cheap utilities (includes internet)
$500 - cheap health insurance
$500 - groceries, food, toiletries, etc
$300 - total cost for 2 cheap car loans
$200 - gas
$100 - cheap car insurance for 2 cars
That’s already $4400 per month, just on the basics. Doesn’t include any savings, wants, emergencies or unexpected costs (home repairs, car repairs, etc.).
If a married couple makes 100K their take home pay is probably around $6500 per month. Even if they could invest that entire $2100 (and avoid spending anything on wants, and avoid all unexpected costs for the next 30 years) into their retirement each month and make a 9.5% return per year for the next 30 years, they’d have 4.27M, which, at the recommended 4% withdrawal rate, is only 78K per year (in today’s money) for their retirement. Hopefully by that point the house is paid off, but there’s really not a whole lot of wiggle room at 100K, unless you never want to buy a home, or until interest rates come back down to a reasonable level.
Everyone making less, and saving less, will be reliant on social security, which probably won’t be enough.
My daughter is only 9 months old and already has her Daddy wrapped around her finger! You won’t have a life for about 4 months but after that you can leave them with family and go out. And boy do you need to go out! Also those bull dogs will become super annoying because they will be jealous just be prepared hahaha. We also spend less than 60 bucks a month on our baby. Cloth diapers and wipes are the bomb and super easy to use now. We don’t buy formula and our baby eats what we eat. We also shop at Once Upon a Child because they only wear it a little bit so don’t buy new. I always get compliments on how cute my baby is dressed and it’s all used to hand me downs. It doesn’t have to be expensive if you don’t buy into all the fluff they say a baby “needs”.
Congrats, George!! We had our first 4 months ago, and let me say, the lack of sleep isn't nearly as bad as everyone makes out. I honestly sleep better now than when I was pregnant lol.
Omg you’re lucky! The lack of sleep was the WORST for me 😂
Congratulations to George and Whitney! Children are a Blessing from The LORD
I’m a big fan of this type of new content Ramsey Solutions is coming out with. Keep up the good work!
Congratulations George and Whitney!🎉🎉 George, you’re going to be an awesome dad!❤
Congratulations George! Just wanted to comment that childbirth in the US cost so much that I want to throw up thinking about it. I don’t know the numbers, but it might be one of a few countries that charge you for having babies. I had my first one in Japan, the whole prenatal and childbirth was subsidized by health insurance. The overall experience was very good. I had the baby and stayed 5 days in the private clinic with awesome food and child care all for $5000, $4000 of which was subsidized by government health insurance. Had my second one here in the US and was charged around $9000 for something that my body actually did by itself for 24 hr hospital stay, and of course they charge the baby too to charge more. It is so broken and it is really not a shocker why people don’t want to have a baby
I agree that healthcare in America is expensive in you don't have insurance. But the truth is only four percent of hospital births in the US are uninsured so that is a small minority.
Don't let "not being able to buy a house" stop you from having kids? Where are you going to live then? Renting Ramsey's apartment buildings? My Goodness! No way a 15-year mortgage makes sense with the current prices so imagine waiting longer to get into a 30-year mortgage? You'll be paying on that until you're 75 years old. Prices have changed significantly since the 1980s.
Congrats I am 31 with 2 girls 5 and 10 it’s a blessing
I've been somewhat rookie binging the Ramsey show the last few months, stumbled on this show recently, and have to say, I'm really enjoying it! You two are a lot of fun, while still holding intelligent conversation with good advice. Cheers!
Congratulations George and Whitney! Cheers to new adventures! 🎉❤
I’m 27 and I feel like a lot of people my age genuinely don’t have a desire to have kids but use money as the scapegoat for not honestly
That, but also people hearing others say that and drinking the fear Kool-Aid. Buying that it HAS to cost that much, they can't have a kid unless they can give it an upper middle class life, they need a purchased home first, each kid needs their own room, they need all the top end safety stuff, etc. More money makes it easier, but 80% of what people sell you as necessary isn't necessary at all
Whatever the excuse is it's still their life and only they get to choose what they want.
I could afford a kid. I have a house and make about 75k a year.
But kids are not a high priority for me. I’ve held off on getting a cat or dog too because they seem like a lot of extra responsibility that I’m not necessarily ready-for. A partner and kids is so much more. 😆
Perhaps I’ll start with my pet first in the next year or so and see how that goes.
having kids in a studio apartment sounds like hell on earth@@TH0KH
Congratulations!! Buy all the clothes used. You can get great stuff barely used. Some communities have used clothing sales put on by moms groups.
Rachel, is there any way you can convince your dad that babies and kids are expensive? I'm so glad you realize (and admit) they are. I love you for standing up to THE Dave Ramsey with regards to many issues.😊❤️
Ya Dave should know that he raised 3
@@katemiller7874xcept he never had daycare expenses considering his 3 kids had a stay at home mom. He’s out of touch.
@@derek4412 “if you do it wrong” how?
This is a great video. Having kids at an early age taught me to budget. I would take my kids to free parks or to state parks on $5 to park day. We mostly ate meals at home and clothing was on a Budget but we had each other.
It’s end of summer 2023 now! I hope that all went smoothly!!!! Congrats new parents!!
Congrats 🎉 George, start visiting and interviewing Child Care providers like yesterday, highest rated providers often have months long waiting list
Maybe he could talk to Rachel to see what she recommends.
Telling the teacher in the midwest making 40-50k to work the snowball on the 100k of debt. Guess what the issue of the student loan crisis is the minimum payments you would make on the loans the balance actually continues to run away from them. Yes the Govt has a bad track record of fixing things but they HAVE to do something about this one or that economic collapse everyone is worried about is assuredly happening.
Totally not complaining, but from my perspective-- working backward from having children-- it's getting married, meeting my future spouse, going on dates (or going out where I can meet women), paying off my debt (baby step 2), and paying for all of that with cash. I haven't given up hope, I just know that it's probably way down the road for me, and I'm already 32 so I won't be a young dad unfortunately. I have faith it'll all work out though.
Yes there is a range of things you can buy but it is very expensive for childcare. I live in Virginia and was quoted 4k a month for two children in daycare. A lot of people don’t get paid maternity leave so that’s also a loss of income. Average hospital bill for a birth in the us is around 8k. Healthcare is expensive etc. No way around it kids are expensive.
I have no desire to have kids at all. I wish i got a chance to meet a man who is okay with NOT having kids. Childfree dating is so hard. Every man seems to WANT it :-(
Having children you can’t afford or force taxpayers to take care of via food stamps etc should be child endangerment
Lol definitely reaching
Congratulations on baby #1! I appreciate y’all discussing the cost of childcare and medical care. I’m a nurse and my husband is a teacher and we have next to no family help (family lives out of state). I work on call and the weekend (which pays more anyway) and my husband works the weekdays. I work extra during holiday breaks. Our daughter is one and we want to have a second one soon but definitely are thinking about the financial implications. I think when our daughter starts going to school things will be much easier and we want to have kids semi close in age to help with that too.
Can y’all do a segment where y’all do empathy scenarios?
Like pull and income and life event out of a hat and break down how you would handle the situation?
Thanks for the content. I would like to see more lower middle or true middle class advice.
Having kids definitely delayed my retirement and I do look on my childless compadres with jealousy. However, I do love my children and grandchildren. The analytical side of me woild not do it again, the emotional side definitely would.
We feel very blessed to be pregnant with our 3rd child. We are also still paying off debt. It has hurt to have to pause our debt payoff to save the money for the hospital bills and the supplies we will need for this baby. We thought we were done after number 2, and there is a big age gap, and we got rid of everything. So we are starting over from scratch needing all new gear. Even though 95% of everything will be bought second hand, it still does negatively impact our debt payoff journey.
“you can do it cheaper” is exactly the problem we shouldn’t have too and you immediately start cutting things off when you have one
I don't have kids, so I don't really have much of a dog in this fight at the moment. But I do want kids.
Anyway, I think the notion of "we shouldn't have to" definitely applies to some things, but my instinct is to push back a little on it. There's a, likely unintentional, assumption in what you said that value always goes up with cost, but that just isn't always the case.
Congratulations George!! I’m expecting our first 9/9!! We are having a baby boy! Super exciting but also nerve wracking
Congrats! ❤ my advice is for babyshower, ask for diapers size 5 and pullups 3/4t, thats the age and size thats expensive and takes a while. Everything else you can get handmedown, NEVER the diapers
Most people can get by with clothes and diapers. Where I live I spent money at consignment and bought new or barely used for years. I didn't need a diaper bank but we had those too and they get thousands of donations. I did run up some credit cards staying home but it was much cheaper than daycare with my salary and I paid them off in time. I never regretted one second not having the angst of what to do when they are sick, what to do when there is a closing or weather event, what to do when daycare calls to get your kid midday, and all the other stuff that comes with daycare. We all make choices but I was frugal and card was for emergencies but everyone is different. For me emotionally and monetarily, it worked most of the time.
100% agree with Rachel about baby clothes!! Comfort is king before 1. (And beyond! 😂)
Yes! Babies have their whole lives ahead of them to wear other things. But infancy is the only time when it is socially acceptable to go almost anywhere in what you slept in. Prioritizing comfort makes it easier on parents too because most of the comfortable baby clothes are easier when it is time to change a diaper.
I don’t. My kids looked good. Keeping them in Jammie’s all day. No way
@@katemiller7874 okay but was the “my kids looked good” comment necessary? 🙄 My kids wore cute comfy onesies that weren’t made of jeans, collared shirts or rigid fabric. There is a middle ground that isn’t just PJs.
Congratulations, George! You will be a great Dad.
Please think about the life you are asking to be here. Look at your day to day, financials, networth and health. Ask yourself if you would want to be thrust into that situation.
George, congrats! Hand me downs are great for the first five years and saves thousands. Don't let ego get in the way of a blessing. (It also makes it easier to pass on to others..."we were given this and it was so great!)"
Congratulations George and Whitney!! 🎉🎉
Trust your instincts, George. You are highly intelligent individual, and you and Whitney had of got this.😊
I bought a new home in 2021. I broke the 25% mortgage payment vs take home pay. I needed an office since I work from home…I also don’t have gas and parking expenses like I used to commuting 2 hours a day 👍
George and Rachel,
This is something that neither of you understand. George doesn’t have kids “yet” and Rachel was born into a wealthy family (lives in a $4 million house). Kids are very expensive for the average people.
Baby crib and mattress from Ikea is under 200 dollars and fits until age 3. Carseats are 60 dollars at Wal-Mart, and used baby clothes are a dollar per item (unless they're free). Diapers are 50 dollars a month, unless you cloth diaper. Then you can get all the supplies for under 150 and use them for years. Babies can be expensive, but they don't have to be.
George owns a paid off home and is a net worth millionaire in his early 30s raising kids is very affordable if you have absolutely zero bills
She wasn’t born into a wealthy family…her family became wealthy because of her dad’s hard work. And she has talked about this before but the house that her parents are living in she didn’t even live in. They got it when she went away to college.
The biggest issue to me is the medical cost after the birth of a child. My wife and I are still paying on medical bills from my daughter being born and she is 2 now!!!!! That was with insurance!!!! The US Healthcare system is fraud and ridiculous.
How much did it cost? Mine was 5k tops
@@ASMR_With_Chels It is safe to think at least 2K but the problem is their wage likely did not increase over that period to time. I say bull normally we run into issue when our buying power and wage don't increase over time.
"The US Healthcare system is fraud and ridiculous" You mean the lack of universal healthcare, right? Not the actual science and technology itself, right? Agreed. Obviously. So, be smart: DON'T CONTRIBUTE TO HARM. Don't breed.
You guys either make poverty wage or you don’t have insurance. Having a kid shouldn’t cost more than $5k.
@@AnonN-sr6uu If they were poverty it wouldnt cost them a dime more than likely.
The company I worked for didn't pay top dollar ,but they had great insurance in the beginning it was nothing out of pocket ( $75 month family, and single coverage it was no cost) - Before i quit yrs later they had for the health the best insurance you could get was ( $800 for family) it was deductible $3000 - ( after that it was 80% up to $10,000 then it was covered a 100%) after you meet the 3K deductible for a family -
They had a high end deductible for the first $10,000. You had to bank $ in HSA out of ea pay period, and the company would contribute a % so you had $500 month for insurance and plus your contribution too, and on top of that all your other deductions. - Small peanuts if you have major incident ( heartattack) but I can see it that having a kid would set you back for a few years.
I personally HATE Kids. Happy other ppl have them but they’re not for me 😅
People are having fewer kids today because it is very expensive to have them. Contrary to religious beliefs, it is YOU the PARENT that is financially responsible for the upbringing of your progeny and money does not come "magically" from Above. You need to WORK for it. Especially in the US but also in many EU countries, having kids is expensive. Moreover, define "fewer". What's wrong with only two kids? Why need 5? The world is getting more and more crowdy and resources are limited. I wish everybody to have a family, but the notion that you need so many kids is really outdated. It's ridiculous that in the tax code you can have like 8 dependent on your tax return. It should be capped to max three or four. Talking about US, I live in a vehemently RED state and I hear more people around me that red states don't create a conducive environment to have kids to begin with. If your pregnancy for whatever reason has medical problems, you are screwed. Younger women simply say "forget it" and focus on career. At my work, you women in their mid twenties are paying off student loans, they have nephews and nieces thus a good family setting and they themselves don't want kids. Period! Whether or not that's a good thing is a different discussion but I can imagine a woman living in a red state may simply not WANTING to become pregnant. So I see a decline in the future. Demographics is a very cool field...
FWIW, the tax code is capped, at least somewhat. You can claim all your children on your taxes, no matter how many you have, but you only get "credit" (tax break/money) for up to 3. The year they turn 17, they are no longer considered dependents.
Example: If you have 4 children, ages 17, 15, 13, 11 -- you've been given the credit for child 1 for 16 years, and can no longer claim them. You can now get credit for your 11 year old, though, for the next 5 years... So there is a cap, but it's not a limit on number of children you can claim.
I had all but one of my children in red states. I'm not really sure why being in a red/blue state makes a difference if you want children. 🤷🏻♀️
@@PookysMom6 As far as the tax code is concerned, thanks for the explanation. As far as red/blue states is concerned, who wants to be pregnant in a red state, in case there is a complication of such a nature that you, your husband and your doc come to the conclusion that it is better to terminate, that is going to be tough in a red state as the religious politician also wants a place at the discussion table and subsequently wants to take the lead in determining what's right for you?. I wouldn't accept that, but that's just me.
@@mathisnotforthefaintofheart Fortunately, I have not been in that situation, so I didn't have to research options. I understand that concern now
My wife and I have 1 daughter who just turned 4. We are both 38 and have been debating on having another. Leaning NO as of now, and money is a big part of why. $125k household income, not a ton of debt, and are very comfortable financially right now. Having another sounds like a good idea on surface, but is borerline terrifying money wise! Next year will be a huge pay raise for both of us once daycare costs are cut! 😂. And I also want to be able to give my daughter any and everything she ever wants or deserves, and feel having another may not allow for that. 😢
Being a single child sucks. It is very isolating, and puts a lot of pressure on them- do you want them to bury you by themselves? Have to care for you when you're older all alone? There is also single child syndrome- single children can be very selfish since the whole world revolves around them growing up. I was almost a single child and I thank God my mom pushed for another. Good luck to you guys
@@janelleg597 That’s not a very nice or helpful comment. That was your experience. Not everyone has a terrible view of being an only child. Also some parents are unable to have more than one. You make the most out of whatever your life situation is.
I say: Don't wait. Have another child. With two kids you are more of a family. It is very good for the child not to have to carry all of his parents' expectations. Two kids have each other and the parents don't put all their attention and hopes and fears on one small person.
Anyway, this is my opinion, for what's it worth.
I’m an only child and have never wanted a sibling. I’m 32 now with an only child of my own. It doesn’t seem better or worse having siblings just different. There is no guarantee that siblings will be best friends. If I were to have a second it would be because I wanted to parent more children. If your happy parenting one that is great! You have found contentment!
@claireschell2917 I have a cousin who is a single child also. She's 22 now and she's told us that she has always loved being an only child and wouldn't change it for anything. I think that there are pros and cons to each. As long as you are close with other family members, an only child will never be truly alone in the world, as Im sure youre aware. There will/should always be other family members for the kid to rely on where siblings would rely on one another. And as stated, there's no guarantee siblings will be close in life either.
Kids in the US are surprisingly expensive. In Norway, it's more like 120k-130k between 0 and 18 years old
I wish I could have had kids younger but it always seemed like my partner(s) at the time made it out to be a money thing. Even with no debt and me owning my own home. It sucks. Kids are not that expensive. You can make it expensive though.
I will agree families don’t make enough to support their families though. I heard a stat the other day that less than 9% of people age 30 or older make over $100k. So yeah from that stat alone I understand why men don’t want kids. We need more higher paying jobs. Let men/women provide for their families. We should be able to feel comfortable and support a family off one income
Daycare where I live in TX costs $1800+ a month for one baby. ONE KID 😮
What city, I found 1100 for Houston
I tell my parents this. I'm not even dating with intention until I get the next promotion to 250-300k. I ain't clipping wawa coupons and I'm not changing diapers. Stay at home momma's cost dough and men gotta work hard till their 30's before settling down or you gonna be living like a middle class 1930's family lol
@@KS-cl8br College Station
CONGRATULATIONS 😍We're expecting number 4 in October and are in baby step 3B I think...🤔just working on the house for debt! Anyway, girls are the BEST! We have 2 girls and they are SO dramatic 🙄 but fun! You got this ❤