Excellent video. Torque is applied force. HP is the speed or rate, at which torque is applied. Think of the transmission as a torque multiplier. Changing gears matches engine rpm to road speed. HP = (Trq x RPM) ÷ 5252 👍👍
Thanks Kevin. I always enjoy your videos. Some of what I learn I use in application, but other stuff I just enjoy the knowledge. This was one where I just enjoy the knowledge. I hope that you and yours have a merry Christmas.
Thanks Kevin, Great explanation, I could follow The whole story. I think everybody must understand that doing upgrade their bike done by a specialist who have a ton of upgrade experiance is way better of than let The work done by The dealer. Greetings fron The Netherlands. Martin.
sport bikes have a shorter stroke but with a typically twice as many cylinders. So at half the displacement your torque nubers are about the same or slightly higher. horsepower= torque× rpm/ 5,252. thats why Harley like to talk torque nubers / displacement insted of horsepower.
They are really interchangeable when comparing engines at a given rpm. If you have more hp, you’ll also have more torque at that rpm. If you look at Harley dynos, you’ll often see more movement in the torque graphs at lower rpm’s than you will on the rpm graphs, but it’s still always there. Just the breakdown of the math.
That's a very long answer. Cam dynamics are very complicated and I plan to do a video discussing this very topic but...in short, certain characteristics apply. Earlier intake close and shorter duration will improve low end torque. Shorter lifts can improve port velocity and cylinder fill making more power (based on engine size of course). More lift, longer duration, etc tends to make more mid to top end power but again, this is all relative to engine size, compression ratio, etc.
The short simple answer is the cam determines where you make peak horsepower. The engine basically makes the same torque, around 1 foot pound per cubic inch. Longer duration cams (opening the valves longer) makes peak horse power at a higher RPM but your don't get something for nothing you lose low end power. That is why race motors have no power below 4000 RPM.
Kevin, You asked me about specific Harley or sport bike tuning regarding EC997a tuning. Here is some general info as to how I had my bike put through the dyno. Evidently my scores are 12-17 percent lower than a machine with this precise tuning method. mustangdyne.com/_wss/clients/205/assets/c205_resources/20170613164415731.pdf Thanks as I really appreciate your videos, Mark
I have an 04 Fatboy EFI. 8600 miles on it. I've upgraded the the air filter to an Arlen Ness clear method sucker and it has screaming eagle pipes( I'm planning on changing them ) I want it to be faster on the highway. At 3200rpm I can maybe do 80mph but I feel like I need another gear at that point. I'm looking at s&s cams chest kit or fueling. I want more power. Jp cycle says 585 cams but my mechanic says too big, he says 535!? ( I think) and a 2-1 pipe , but I'm not a fan,I'm thinking more V& H short shorts. What about a baker 6 speed, if I do the cam kit can I keep my stock trans? I just want to be able to go 85-95 mph and not feel like I'm strain ing the engine. Thanks!
more power wont lower your rpms. but at the same time, if you lower rpms, often you find you need more power to maintain speed. these are 2 different goals and one isnt dependant on the other. if you run 90mph regularly, and lowering RPM is your goal, the Baker DD6 would do that for you. Dont do the OD6 on a stock engine...nowhere near enough power to pull a deep overdrive. Whoever told you to put a 585 cam in a stock unmodified engine....uhhh....never take their advice. Discount parts = discount advice. Watch my "how to choose the perfect cam" video from a couple months ago. it'll help you. when you decide to get one, give us a call. ill make sure its a good choice then ship it out to you.
@@KevinBaxter thank you I will check out your video. And it was a tech from JP cycles that suggested the 585 , they are having a sale on the s& s cam chest kits.
sometimes saving money, costs you in the long run. Yes the 585 would "run"....but it needs at min 9.7:1 CR and wouldnt start pulling until after 3000. When you get ready to buy a cam and kit, give me a call, i'll get you in the right one.
The simplest way torque and horsepower were explained to me was by the late great Johnathan Winters......"Horsepower is how fast you hit a the wall...torque is how far you take the wall with you."
Wow--a comedian with an understanding of this subject. Interesting, for sure. I miss JW; he was just absolutely hilarious, always. There's a reason Robin Williams spoke so highly of him, often. Have you ever seen the 1960's movie, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World? Pretty much every cast member IN it was a "star," and the role Jonathan Winters played has me about falling on the floor LAUGHING as I type these words, thinking back to it. If you haven't seen that film, you NEED to--comedy at its absolute finest, something that's a "rare occurrence" these days, sadly...
TQ matters more than HP on a street engine. A good average build you have there. Absolutely nothing wrong with 1HP per cubic inch....and a little more torque.
You know what you're talking about, but you've found it very difficult to make it simple for someone else to understand....... Tq and HP are the SAME yet OPPOSITE..... SAME, you explained what Tq is inside the engine(the amount of boom X 1/2 stroke length)......HP is the addition of all the Tq's produced in 1 second / 550(the amount of Tq in 1 second that produces 1 HP).......... OPPOSITE, in the design of an engine the longer stroke produces more Tq, but the longer stroke produces less HP...... 2 engines with same displacement, 1 long stroke 1 big bore.....deal with stroke, long stroke is 4in, short stroke is 2in, for the long stroke to make 1 rev the piston must travel 16in while the short stroke piston only travels 8in......so the ability for the short stroke to produce more booms in a second is much greater.......however each boom produces less Tq The motorcycle treadmill is not accurate, Tq is measured at the wheel, transmissions alter Tq at the wheel, then in calculating HP it uses the engine RPM not the wheel RPM(or distance traveled would be even better since wheel size also alters measured Tq at the wheel)......but then since it is measuring at the wheel the calculation uses 2pi instead of number of pistons........The motorcycle treadmill is set up to produce larger than true Tq and HP numbers because these numbers are selling points........when Harley tests Tq at the wheel they use an equation that reduces the number to reflect actual engine output When I tested engines(not at the wheel, actually testing engines) we also measured the fuel used so we could calculate thermal efficiency....High HP output engines are not thermal efficient.
Well....sort of. Stroke determines mechanical advantage and resulting torque, HP is the rate at which the torque can be produced and applied. Thanks for watching and the comment.
Kevin Baxter I had S&S build me a shovelhead back in 2000. 80’’ bore 88’’ wheels 4 3/4 stroke. Solid cam and lifters roller rockers with a delardo ...it screamed. I’m sure in short runs it would beat `my 110 but not long...lol yeah hd pressed cranks suck bad. I’ve blown one already.
My dad always said "horsepower is how fast you hit the wall, torque is how far you take the wall with you"
Kevin is that very patient teacher talking to his kids...😁
Great explanation, thanks!
Love the simple explanation on HP & Torque!
Glad it helped!
Excellent video. Torque is applied force. HP is the speed or rate, at which torque is applied. Think of the transmission as a torque multiplier. Changing gears matches engine rpm to road speed.
HP = (Trq x RPM) ÷ 5252 👍👍
Exactly what a trans is...as well as primary and secondary drive. Great comment. Thanks.
Thanks Kevin. I always enjoy your videos. Some of what I learn I use in application, but other stuff I just enjoy the knowledge. This was one where I just enjoy the knowledge. I hope that you and yours have a merry Christmas.
Thank you for subscribing and following. Be safe out there. Merry Christmas
I learned years ago in school that torque is the twisting force in ftlbs. Horsepower is how quickly the toque can be applied.
exactly sir. well said.
Torque gets you there, horsepower keeps you there
Cheers for the video. Enjoy your run up to Christmas guys!
Thanks, you too!
Thanks Kevin,
Great explanation, I could follow The whole story.
I think everybody must understand that doing upgrade their bike done by a specialist who have a ton of upgrade experiance is way better of than let The work done by The dealer.
Greetings fron The Netherlands.
Martin.
Greetings and thank you!
Great video
Racing speedway bikes grew up learning how fast you hit the wall is hp, and how hard you hit it is torque. Tested both over the years 🤦♂️
Great information as always. Merry Christmas from the guys in Kingston.
Thanks bud. Was just up there a cpl months ago. Hope to head back soon. Will miss the Toronto show in Jan unfortunately.
Merry Christmas
great explanation.
Glad it was helpful!
sport bikes have a shorter stroke but with a typically twice as many cylinders. So at half the displacement your torque nubers are about the same or slightly higher. horsepower= torque× rpm/ 5,252. thats why Harley like to talk torque nubers / displacement insted of horsepower.
Very clear explanation. Thanks Kevin.
They are really interchangeable when comparing engines at a given rpm. If you have more hp, you’ll also have more torque at that rpm. If you look at Harley dynos, you’ll often see more movement in the torque graphs at lower rpm’s than you will on the rpm graphs, but it’s still always there. Just the breakdown of the math.
In other words, that tractor has more hp as well at those rpm’s that say a ferarri
My question is how does a cam effect the torque/HP #s why would a cam grind make more power/tq vs the other or stock
That's a very long answer. Cam dynamics are very complicated and I plan to do a video discussing this very topic but...in short, certain characteristics apply. Earlier intake close and shorter duration will improve low end torque. Shorter lifts can improve port velocity and cylinder fill making more power (based on engine size of course). More lift, longer duration, etc tends to make more mid to top end power but again, this is all relative to engine size, compression ratio, etc.
The short simple answer is the cam determines where you make peak horsepower. The engine basically makes the same torque, around 1 foot pound per cubic inch. Longer duration cams (opening the valves longer) makes peak horse power at a higher RPM but your don't get something for nothing you lose low end power. That is why race motors have no power below 4000 RPM.
Torque gets you up to speed, Horsepower keeps you there.
Good Stuff
Thanks 😎🇺🇸
You're welcome
TY🎉❤
No matter, the engine that can continually produce the most hp wins.
Kevin,
You asked me about specific Harley or sport bike tuning regarding EC997a tuning. Here is some general info as to how I had my bike put through the dyno. Evidently my scores are 12-17 percent lower than a machine with this precise tuning method.
mustangdyne.com/_wss/clients/205/assets/c205_resources/20170613164415731.pdf
Thanks as I really appreciate your videos, Mark
👋🇦🇺 thanks Kevin, great vid
Glad you enjoyed it
I have an 04 Fatboy EFI. 8600 miles on it. I've upgraded the the air filter to an Arlen Ness clear method sucker and it has screaming eagle pipes( I'm planning on changing them ) I want it to be faster on the highway. At 3200rpm I can maybe do 80mph but I feel like I need another gear at that point. I'm looking at s&s cams chest kit or fueling. I want more power. Jp cycle says 585 cams but my mechanic says too big, he says 535!? ( I think) and a 2-1 pipe , but I'm not a fan,I'm thinking more V& H short shorts. What about a baker 6 speed, if I do the cam kit can I keep my stock trans? I just want to be able to go 85-95 mph and not feel like I'm strain
ing the engine. Thanks!
more power wont lower your rpms. but at the same time, if you lower rpms, often you find you need more power to maintain speed. these are 2 different goals and one isnt dependant on the other. if you run 90mph regularly, and lowering RPM is your goal, the Baker DD6 would do that for you. Dont do the OD6 on a stock engine...nowhere near enough power to pull a deep overdrive. Whoever told you to put a 585 cam in a stock unmodified engine....uhhh....never take their advice. Discount parts = discount advice. Watch my "how to choose the perfect cam" video from a couple months ago. it'll help you. when you decide to get one, give us a call. ill make sure its a good choice then ship it out to you.
@@KevinBaxter thank you I will check out your video. And it was a tech from JP cycles that suggested the 585 , they are having a sale on the s& s cam chest kits.
sometimes saving money, costs you in the long run. Yes the 585 would "run"....but it needs at min 9.7:1 CR and wouldnt start pulling until after 3000. When you get ready to buy a cam and kit, give me a call, i'll get you in the right one.
Thank you I will definitely be in touch!
100 rear wheel hp from 0 to 5000rpms would be ideal for cruising/passing power
The simplest way torque and horsepower were explained to me was by the late great Johnathan Winters......"Horsepower is how fast you hit a the wall...torque is how far you take the wall with you."
Wow--a comedian with an understanding of this subject. Interesting, for sure. I miss JW; he was just absolutely hilarious, always. There's a reason Robin Williams spoke so highly of him, often. Have you ever seen the 1960's movie, It's a Mad, Mad, Mad, Mad World? Pretty much every cast member IN it was a "star," and the role Jonathan Winters played has me about falling on the floor LAUGHING as I type these words, thinking back to it. If you haven't seen that film, you NEED to--comedy at its absolute finest, something that's a "rare occurrence" these days, sadly...
How did he know my name is Clayton? 🤔😁
👍🏽
Think my 103 has 100tourque at 2700 and drops from 110 to 100 at5250 from memory.
sounds about right for many build combos.
Kevin Baxter 254e cam but only 102hp
TQ matters more than HP on a street engine. A good average build you have there. Absolutely nothing wrong with 1HP per cubic inch....and a little more torque.
@@KevinBaxter thanks . and nice vidio's too thanks from Australia
Cheers Mate. I love my visits to OZ.
You know what you're talking about, but you've found it very difficult to make it simple for someone else to understand.......
Tq and HP are the SAME yet OPPOSITE.....
SAME, you explained what Tq is inside the engine(the amount of boom X 1/2 stroke length)......HP is the addition of all the Tq's produced in 1 second / 550(the amount of Tq in 1 second that produces 1 HP)..........
OPPOSITE, in the design of an engine the longer stroke produces more Tq, but the longer stroke produces less HP......
2 engines with same displacement, 1 long stroke 1 big bore.....deal with stroke, long stroke is 4in, short stroke is 2in, for the long stroke to make 1 rev the piston must travel 16in while the short stroke piston only travels 8in......so the ability for the short stroke to produce more booms in a second is much greater.......however each boom produces less Tq
The motorcycle treadmill is not accurate, Tq is measured at the wheel, transmissions alter Tq at the wheel, then in calculating HP it uses the engine RPM not the wheel RPM(or distance traveled would be even better since wheel size also alters measured Tq at the wheel)......but then since it is measuring at the wheel the calculation uses 2pi instead of number of pistons........The motorcycle treadmill is set up to produce larger than true Tq and HP numbers because these numbers are selling points........when Harley tests Tq at the wheel they use an equation that reduces the number to reflect actual engine output
When I tested engines(not at the wheel, actually testing engines) we also measured the fuel used so we could calculate thermal efficiency....High HP output engines are not thermal efficient.
STROKE IS THE HORSEPOWER ..
Well....sort of. Stroke determines mechanical advantage and resulting torque, HP is the rate at which the torque can be produced and applied. Thanks for watching and the comment.
Kevin Baxter I had S&S build me a shovelhead back in 2000. 80’’ bore 88’’ wheels 4 3/4 stroke. Solid cam and lifters roller rockers with a delardo ...it screamed. I’m sure in short runs it would beat `my 110 but not long...lol yeah hd pressed cranks suck bad. I’ve blown one already.
I wanna see the math
There’s one in every crowd….thanks!
My moped is faster than yours