Wow, that is the most thorough engine break-in process I've ever heard of. I trust you tons sir. Great video. If I ever have engine work done in the south east, I'll be sure to have it done with your business.
Had my 03 built, guy that did it said he had the rings seated, and informed me of the process Wich was much of what you stated. Told me take it out and run the piss out of it. Never had any issues
My dad was a heavy industrial mechanic. I grew up listening to the exact same explanation you preached over the last half hour. When others disagreed he would just sit , listening and smile. The reason I like your videos is knowledge. Thanks.
Kevin, I learned a lot from this video. I always heat cycle 3-4 times, on the lift, then take the bike for an easy short ride 5- 10 miles then take it to my tuner. I've been using the auto tuners for my builds from "Fuel Motto"( they match up the air /fuel for me) which seems to be working good, then have it Dyno tuned after a few hundred miles. I only build basic street bikes, nothing like hi performance race bikes, however, I do realize how important a good time is. Thanks Again Kevin 😊
No doubt, that was the best explanation I've heard thus far on the function and purpose of all these components and the importance of doing it correctly! Excellent presentation Kevin, thanks! Brian Centennial Cycle Repair LLC
Last engine I broke in (60's Harley Sprint SS-250) I idled it on first startup for 5 minutes. Cooled completely. Second start, slowly revved up to mid range a few times from cold for 5 minutes. Let cool overnight. 3rd cycle, 15 minute ride around town. Loading the engine up with ¾ throttle at lower mid range rpm and not sitting at any rpm aside from stopped for traffic. Immediately changed the hot oil with tons of metal and glitter. Next 500 miles rode normally while loading up the engine and accelerate to a limited rpm. Every 100 miles, increasing limit by 500 (starting with 3k). Changed oil at 500 to find very fine material in suspension. Great compression, no smoke, no consumption, good milage, runs like a top. VR1 Valvoline 20w-50.
Yeah same here. But does Harley start the engine at the factory? I know the first few minutes are important and dealership mechanics should ride a new bike for ~13 miles (or so I’ve been told). When I purchased my 2020 Heritage, it had 1 mile on it! BTW, I about passed out when all the salesman celebrated my purchase by starting a new bike and revving the engine at high rpms! I purchased a 2021 SGS and you should have seen how the salesman treated the new bike he used to go on a test ride with me. Crazy! Anyway, awesome video! I really appreciate your level of knowledge and professionalism.
OK Kevin, 1o7 twin cam build S/S FW 570g cams flowed heads oil pump etc. followed my builders Break-in and in 60 miles I checked oil filter metal flakes silver . Round two I did the heat in method we at 1200 miles now...PEACE!
Great knowledge and break in process. In the old days some people would say run it hard, for break in. ha! beat it into submission, again that sounds crazy. what I leaned today from your video, is the crosshatch specs. I never knew that. [ I am working on a 1976 shovelhead] Kevin, Thanks for another great video.
I enjoy your vids. I bought an 06 ultra Classic as my first Harley last year. After watching your video on cam chain adjusters, I bought the Screaming Eagle cam plate kit. You may have just saved me a ton of money, and my feelings for Harleys. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us.
I'll definitely share. Just finished my 124" Twin cam S&S build. My local shop definitely ran it threw a few heat cycles. Once done, they had about 30 miles on it. Then, I was told to ride her from about 2500-4500 RPMs. They cautioned me not to go below 2500 RPMs too often, as the engine doesn't like lugging. I'll say, once I started riding her, I definitely felt heard some pinging at the lower RPM ranges. Brought her back to the shop and they told me the ignition timing was a bit strong, and they pulled back a bit. Didn't hear the pinging much after that. I've got about 280 miles on her now. Wondering what she looks like inside and how the rings sealed. I'd love to be able to send over a sample for testing. Curious how the break in process faired for me. Thanks for sharing, Kevin. As always, your videos help me understand the what and why, better than anyone else.
Best description of ring chatter I've heard, only recently found your videos and have been bingeing. I had a cupboard full of ECU's, injectors and carburetors specifically for running in engines on an engine dyno, each one is specifically tuned for a particular build and marked to get as close as possible to ideal AFR for bedding in, then replaced with the ones belonging to the engine and tuned to match the particular application the engine has been built for. Also send the filter with the oil to be analyzed for metal content, particulate size, ash content etc.. Been retired for a few years now and still dabble when I get the chance, the changes in technology march on, and yet remain much the same regardless. Just bought a new bike (FLSB) with an M-8 and I'm looking forward to stripping it down for a look see, either when it's out of warranty, or when I decide to say stuff it and open it up for a bit of massaging (watched the vid on crank alignment, food for thought) and maybe a few more cubes.
I bought a 2020 new Harley davidson lowrider 107.i already have 12,700 miles on it beautiful motor.i the tech at Harley davidson dealer.in Effingham ilinios told me to just keep it under 3,500 ram the first 1,000 miles and under 50 mph the first 50 miles no issues with the bike at all.
Kevin, my experience has been from automotive, by adjusting or varying the speed from 20 mph to 30 mph dropping it down then continuing maybe 25 to 35 then slowly increasing the speed but, keeping it under 60 for the first 500 miles. I continued the process with my bikes and seem to have an advantage after break in over everything I raced. Start with my brother's GTO then my 454 El Camino to my first Z1 900 bored to 1040 now to my Supercharged V Rod Muscle which You are going to help me with the maping when I am ready. Great series thanks.
My man....a car guy. As you know, that along with bikes has been in the blood since birth. I would agree with most of that especially with auto engines. I practiced that as well with air cooled bike engines as well but started to notice many years ago, that my procedure had to be modified for various reasons to break it in quicker. One, air cooled engines require more fuel than liquid cooled. Example...those cars you list, id tune AFR around 14.2 give or take at idle, and between that and 14.5 at cruise. These engines require 13.4 to 13.8 at idle and 14.1 give or take at cruise to keep them cool. So with the richer required mixture, I found if i break them in more aggressively, i get a better leakdown and CCP after break in than doing it using a slower less aggressive method. Great comment James...thank you so much for taking the time and for the sub. I look forward to hearing more from you.
5 Builds and only 1 fail with blow by Pre Cut gap at 22th New Rings Fast hone 20 strokes then filed the rings to 14th gap they seated fine .Carb engine Evo 1340 with Screaming Eagle heads .
On My Harley's I Basically Do what you said Including Decels which Seals my Rings and All Moving parts Perfect to where my bikes have Way Above Average Power , No to Very Little Oil Usage and Very High Milage . On Sport bike where Manufacturer Recommends a given Rpm by Specific Mileage I'll Calculate the Length/ Mileage of Rides and Incrementally add Say 500 RPM each Ride to my Break in Procedure which may take me up to Several weeks mainly do to Duration of Rides which vary Around 70 Miles each Ride..And even after Break in I'll Ensure that at least Once During my Ride I'll Redline my Bike in two / three Gears then Allow for full Cool down..
Excellent info, Thanks Kevin. Ok ,since you asked: for other bikes.... Yamaha Bolt, ( 2019 spec, as mine sits : 58 cubes, 59.3 foot pounds at 3000 rpm , 5870 rpm, 65 hp,107 mph, wet weight 547 pounds, 27 inch seat height, 30 inch bar spread. meaning 22 inches between your thumbs, .... mid controls, rake 29 degrees, lean angle 37 degrees left and right) , Spec says : first 600 kms, no more than 1/3 throttle, .... We assume here 1800 rpm. ( max-wrist is 120 degrees of twist..... No Tach ....), for the first 600 kilometres. Change oil and filter. Then same , but not more than 1/2 throttle for the next 400 kms.... lol. So assumed if max-wrist is 5870 rpm, ( which I repeat, is max torque for bike . 59.3 ft #s.then 1/2 wrist for this is going to lug the engine if you aren't paying attention. stay off the highways ... ha!) .... so ok..Then oil and filter change. then at 1600 kms do same, filter-oil change and "good-to -go , ride as normal . To quote Yamaha " Has Ceramic coated cylinders: and I use 10W-50 oil, in all changes . Must be that the cylinders are RMS 16 or RMS 8 finishes to get the required sealing to occur. Bike works awesomely .... except for that "Yamaha-Tick". I'm thinking that the valve clearance on the valves was "upped" by ).002 to 0.004 " on the inlet and outlets to prevent new-user trashing the engine. ?? Bugs the crap out of me why Yammy would do that ...... why not just key the fuel injection system to rev-limit during break-in period, .... ugghhh. Stay Safe!! W
anytime specialty coated cyls or pistons are thrown in the mix, different break in procedures can be necessary. There are many factors....too many to really squeeze into a video.
Great video, heat cycling is what I've been told works on rebuilds, What about a new motor tthat'salready been on the dyno or in the test lab at the factory and has been taken right through the rev range to check for issues. Isn't that motor broken in already?
Another great video. Thanks for the education. I’ve learned so much since subbing your channel. I’ll probably never used most of what I’ve learned, but I love knowing it.
Great video. Couldn’t agree more. I have heard builders say that you can drive it like you stole it. Very scary. I always use 500 miles with new vehicles both cars bikes and snowmobiles. Go easy and up and down the rpm range nothing constant. My grandpa taught me that decades ago. 👍
if we are building a very high end full blueprint...big power engine....and there arent special piston coatings, etc....we will get the tune right asap then give it all shes got right out of the gate...but it depends on the intended purpose of the engine.
I just did a 98” on my 05 efi dyna and on the heat cycles get it to operating Temp four times letting it cool in between? Has wiseco forged piston ring kit no coding I have a power vision so I should be able to get the AFr at the 13.8-14.1 o and my cylinders were plateau honed they also used torque plates hillside did the jugs i’m getting very mixed opinions on this some say do not let it get to running temp for the heat cycles but I’ve been watching your videos for a few weeks and it seems to me really know your stuff thank you for all your help and knowledge you have helped me a lot and have educated me a lot through these videos
Good timing, Kevin. I bought a 20 Low Rider S one week before the Zombie Apocalypse hit. Between work and constant rain I've only been able to put 120 miles on it so far. Matter of fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that the universe hates me and this entire situation might be a result of my purchase. =P I'll be listening to this in full tomorrow while I'm working. I'm a crane operator at an ocean port, and we're still working vessels. This will keep my mind off the fact that one of the 300+ people I work with just tested positive, after working for the past 2 weeks while feeling like shit and not telling anyone. But, the Dalia Lama says that I will receive total enlightenment on my death bed, so I have that going for me, which is nice.
Hi Kevin! You are awesome to listen and watch your videos. Such knowledge. Thanks for all advices. You are polite and professional. Thanks a lot for a great program. Greetings Peder 😊🇸🇪👋🏻
I had no idea this was so critical in the very first few miles! Harley’s demo ride policy precludes most of us to take delivery of a zero miles bike. Who knows what the other test riders did to evaluate how a bike feels or performs. Salesman can’t ride along like in a car to supervise reasonable driving habits. I suppose as the new owner we could ask for engine oil analysis and leak down tests etc before we took delivery but if they came back out of spec, assuming a dealership told us the truth of those test results, the motor company would be left with a bike the couldn’t sell without a new engine(downside!) or a real reason to deny warranty claims due to probable improper break-in(upside)... Never happen prolly but maybe other manufactures “no test ride” policies now make some real sense. My “new” ‘17 M8 bought in late ‘18 had relatively many test ride miles on it already. By chance I essentially did your procedure til 1000 miles after I took possession. Time will tell.
Brilliant, very interesting (as always) especially because I bought a new FXLRS 4 weeks ago and been worrying a great deal about this, found myself in the wrong gear a couple of times and slogged it for a couple of seconds, also when overtaking topped 4,000 revs for a few seconds with only 200 miles on the clock. What I would love to know is, do the factory do any test running and what my local dealer probably did on the first 5 miles which were on the clock when I collected the bike? Many thanks for all your videos.
Great video. But,,,, as a machinist for the last 40 yrs or so I always cringe a bit when I hear “ tight tolerances” when talking about pistons etc. Need to make sure we are talking about reduced clearances. Tolerances means the difference in actual finished dimensions of a batch of parts. Clearances are the measured differences of mechanical assemblies. Reduced clearances require tightened tolerances but terminology matters. Again a great video .
Of course we both know you are absolutely correct. Thank you for pointing that out that I could've explained it a little better. Often i find myself debating on terms to use for clarity sake...trying to maintain perspective that most of the viewers have limited experience with the meat and potatoes of this line of work. For those that read this, Twinstick is right. "Tolerances" refer to variance from required size. Example... if a spec is 1". The "tolerance" could be +/- 1/16" meaning its acceptable for the work to be 1-1/16"-15/16". If we run a "tighter tolerance", we could say 1" +/- 1/32". Reduced clearances are simply that....a "tighter fit" or "closer fit".
Since you went down the piston tech rabbit hole a little here I'm curious to know your thoughts on Teflon and ceramic coatings. Or is that a subject for another video?
each have their place no doubt. often the mistakes come from using different pistons in the wrong application...or what it wasnt best suited for. many stock pistons come with teflon coating but most forged do not. i guess i dont really have an opinion either way. we went the high end route on our pistons with the abraidable coatings and anodizing...pricey but well worth it.
Great video. I love how much info you include in your videos. How do you watch AFR at idle. I'm new to this and putting together a motor currently. Hope next week to turn it over. Thanks
Since you're new to this and tackling your first HD build, I'd like to help you out. Give me a call tomorrow at the shop and I can walk you thru some options. 6782269651.
Great job telling how to break it in, i sure learned somethings there you just told. I never heard, but never forget cause it makes cents better safe than sorry. well good job telling and showing and have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
Thanks for this video! I 'm always gentle with a new engine. Start doing small distances in curvie roads and I build up the pressure and rpm's for about 1000 mhls . And warming up the engine not by just let it idle , but start riding gentle so it warms up quicker to normal operating temperatures. When I think , after a few 1000 mhls the engine is ok , I'm not aftraid to trash it (on operation temp) . So many times I hear people say it's not important to brake in a new car because of the new machining techniques . I'm old scool so I stay with my own ideas. Kevin, your info has given me a better knowledge about the different materials. Thanks .
from what i've seen over the years, very, very few people will take that much time to break in an engine that way. most put a "break in" map in it and send the customer on their way for a few hundred miles.
@@KevinBaxter I’m planning on buying a new Harley in the new year. After watching this am I better off picking it up on a trailer and taking it to get a proper tune installed before I ride it home
@@nathananderson2298 Kevin will Correct me if I'm wrong but take your Climate into Consideration and Altitude. The New M8's are said not to run too lean. Stick to Break in Procedure regarding Mileage of First Two Rides , Vary Rpm,,Not Exceeding 3000/3500 and plenty of Decel ..I've had Several New Harleys including Sport bikes and Procedure can be Somewhat different.. But my Current 20 Fxlrs has Loads of Power,,Awesome mileage,, Almost Nil oil Use and has Never Missed a Beat ..Avoid Highways During your Initial Break in as its Harder to Vary Rpm..Also I wouldn't Exceed app 50 miles Distance followed by Several Cooling cycles.
I bought a 1200 sportster brand new in 1995. Had to drive immediate first 30 miles on interstate between 60-75 mph. Tried to vary speeds after that. It was about 50 F that first ride so that probably was helpful. Sold bike with 50K on engine running like new. Changed Mobil 1 15W-50 every 3-5k. Excellent video!
Right on Kevin! Very good presentation. Many folks will not follow these guidelines. This is one of those subjects that, unfortunately, very much wrong info gets put out about it. With you 100% on your advise here.
Kevin i have a 2012 tri-glide, 103, tuner, true duels, air cleaner . i am going to replace rings and hone jugs . "oil burning". want to put gear drive cams but don't think it will take them. i don't have it pulled apart yet. so can i put gear drive on cams at rear of cam chest and chain from front so i don't have to worry with tensioner on rear of cam chest ? i am 6'3 380 and wife is 140 what would be a good cam that i can put in ? we do a lot of travel and sometimes i pull a trailer. thank you for all you do. love your videos.
I would only hone the jugs if...there is enough material to allow for it without exceeding piston clearance spec, if the cylinder isn't tapered too much, etc. Often, they are so far out, your effort will be wasted. Honestly...take off cylinders are cheap. Maybe 50 bucks. Find a set of 88 or 96 inch used cyls (3.75 bore), have them bored and honed to your current pistons if they spec right, then install new rings. I have many cores I could sell you for 50 bucks. 250 to bore and hone but youd want to send me your pistons to measure. As for the cam...a few choices. If you can, shoot me an email to kevin@protwin.com and I'll send you information tomorrow. Thanks.
Again Mr Baxter. highly informative .I never considered heat cycles but I do now. I thought you stretching them out like a rubber band till thy losen up progressively increasing rpm with milage .Thanks for your time and insight .Sir you are a Mechanical patriot . Stay well
To break it in like you're going to ride it.. if it's like a bad out of hell ,?or not.? but I did have my shovelhead stroked and I did break it in like you're saying that it get heated up let it cool all the way down, but I rode it a little bit each time ,and let it cool all the way down and rode it some more let it cool down.But I didn't go in . 500 RPMs increments, but thank you very much for the insight..Thanks. I love your videos they're very educational.yo PaL, BradyTheKid
I heard someone say the only reason the dealers tell you to not go over 3500 RPM is because they use a lighter weight oil in the engine for the break in period. That sound a little foolish to me. As you stated, we can ask 100 different people and get 100 different answers. Your explanation is very informative. excellent content, Thank you!
I just bought my very first NEW bike off the showroom floor, but it already had about 5 miles on it. Should I genuinely be concerned? I purchased it but don’t pick it up until spring. 23 heritage softail 114. The dealer is an hour and a half from my house, and it’s pretty much nothing but a small town and a bunch of rural highways. I never even thought about break-in on my pickup when I bought it new. Went straight from the dealer to the highway. Drove it like I pretty much always would, minus the occasional goofing around from time to time. So, when I do pick the bike up, I planned on riding it out of there. As a basic minimum, what should I actually do right there in the parking lot?
What we do with c15 caterpillar as soon as we build it we warm it up to 195 degrees for 4 cycles of thermostat then We put it on the Dyno and bit heck out of it like it’s pulling 80,000 pounds up the 6% grade because only have little time of Sharp edges on the piston rings just like Your shaving razors so before it gets round or lose shaving sharpness we try to achieve a perfect seal , and that’s our story but of course we have a twin piston air compressor that I think has a similar Displacement as most harleys and its liquid cooled,we don’t pay much attention to that 😂
You have a great ability to explain details. I built tc88 to 98. 2003 fxsti a simple project cam tensioner turn into a rebuild Head work, cam, cc chambers, scavenging oil pump, cp pistons ft 9.5-1 Ok break in I used assembly lube on the pistons and rings. Interesting thought you gave on using regular oil. I prefer to "wash" the inside and clean away debris. Crank the motor until the oil pressure gauge had a reading. Put the plugs in, fuse for fuel pump and ran the engine for about 30 seconds. Let it completely cool then took it for a short ride. Let it cool again. Then took it for a ride at night temp about 65 degrees on the parkway. Accelerated slowly up to 50, staying under 2000 rpm, then down shift to increase vacuum to suck up oil to get to the top ring. I change the oil/filter (amsoil 20/50) at 50 miles, then 150 then 500. It took forever to get to 1000 miles. Now I get on it and does it pull in 6th I wish I would have found your video BEFORE the rebuild. Thanks
I personally break in my new builds on the dyno. Initial start up I’ll throttle up to about 1800 rpm and warm it up to 160°. Then let it cool completely. I’ll do that twice more to 180° with full cooling between each. Then I’ll do the same warm up and run it fairly easy up to 4th gear then with a 10% load I’ll do 20-25% throttle from 1500 to 3000 then fully let off throttle to slow it bavk to 1500. I’ll do that 3 times then cool completely. Next will be the same but to 4000 and then the same to 5500. Complete cool down between each and get progressively more aggressive with throttle input. Once it’s cooled down from the 5500 rpm runs I’ll begin tuning. Corrections in AFR will be made throughout break in as required. I try to keep it around 13.8
02 cvo wide glide 88TC 1st engine build (before TH-cam). 585 s&s 95 ci piston & jugs Mikuni carb. I was given so much bad info and advice on jetting, break in and assembly that the rear cylinder decintigrated within 10 min. (Not Blaming, My responsibility!!!) 1. Told to Port heads and intake by hand. 2. Larger valves and jetting not needed for this build. 3. Clutch would be fine. I could go to belt drive if I wanted. 4. No break in required. Got several how to references based on popular TV shows of the time. And automotive references as well. $$$LESSON LEARN!!$$
Man hate to hear of your bad experiences. I would like to offer this...if anyone ever gives you advice on this stuff, always ask them why. If you ask enough why's you'll eventually get to one of 3 things....either that's the way I've always done it, that's my opinion or how i was told, or you get facts and true explanations that can be confirmed. I'd trust the last one most. Wish you better luck sir.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks for all the great videos, Kevin. Incidentally, the "five whys" technique was originally developed by the Toyota Motor Corporation to evaluate its manufacturing methodologies. The idea is that the answer to the fifth "why" question will reveal the root cause of the problem being encountered.
Good Video. I was a manufacturing Engineer for Waukesha Engines, Briggs and Stratton and Harley Davidson. Most folks are not aware how critical honing is. The days of running a ball hone or flap disk in a bore are long over. Suffocated gaging equipment is required to measure all the parameters such as Ra, Rq, Rvk, Rpk, Wa, Wq, Pa, Pq and more, typically made by Taylor Hobson and Hummelwerk's. When working at Harley, they called your skipping "singing rings." I have a new Tri Glide with about 550 miles on it. With the knowledge I have, I followed your suggested break in almost to the letter.
I sure wish I had one, but... My son-in-law is building a 383 for my newly purchased 55 Chevy Sedan delivery, and I can hardly wait to take back possession of it. Love how you break everything down so us unwashed can easily understand. Keep up the good work and remain safe. In the meantime I'm having to rely on my yamaha 650 classic. Too bad I live in Houston as I just began THAT adventure 2 years ago at the age of 67. True, it ain't a hog, but we do what we can.
Great information sir, appreciate your input. Picking my RG up tomorrow at Werner’s House of HP, going from 103-107, 585 cams and CNC ported heads, his break in process sounds EXACTLY like yours. Thanks again, love your informative videos.
Heck yeah man. I saw that come thru. I really appreciate it. I'll be up at RDS later this summer. Rob is a great fella and trusted friend. Have a great deal of respect for him.
Broken in as you recommended, and it runs perfectly. It does not use any oil, the drain plug magnet is clean, and you have a copy of my oil analysis from the lab. Job well done sir, thank you very much. ...LT
Well where do I start. 2003 88B TC Night train. drop $6200+ for a 107 S&S stroker upgrade. in 50 miles the engine sqeeels (low) and stops. #*@&&&$%@*% trailer home open oil filter slap full of gold silver dust... and black chunks. Took pictures sent to buider first thing he says "That didn't come from inside you didn't clean all the tank and lines (yes I did but motor never failed originally) so I told him "Well if it's my fault I'll handle it. He returns I warranty my work if it's my fault which I doubt. Then copells me to bring it to him by saying if you or anyone else opens it up bets are off you can't come to me and yada yada yada got to dissaseble completly to get all the debris iut ...Drop it off wait and wait then email it's ready with a bill for$1263.$#*0))$@$ WHAT! court thing still urrent and the "FIXED" engine seized the rear AGAIN at 1800 miles on I-4 leaving Orlando she got hot. BUTT Wait Boss thats not even the good stuff . Now I got the motor apart and low and behold stock "STOCK" camplate and oil pump. %$*$er took out the gold screamin eagle plate andoil pump. I've also bought the S&S camplate and oil pump....Sorry but it's quite frustrating being without all the money and a motorcycl
Very good information! I'll need to watch your other videos too. I have built some old school V8s, dirt bikes etc. in the past and recently started playing with Harleys. One thing to remember also is to clean all the parts good before assembly. I just built 124 M8 with S&S parts, 525cc injectors, 64mm throttle body etc. I did some port work on the throttle body too. I had heads ported with new valve job by retired old school cylinder head guy who used to be Joe Mondello's student. Ended up with 11.2:1 static compression. I use ThunderMax tuner, set the cruising AFR to 13.5:1 and 13:1 for heavier throttle. Completed couple idle heat cycles per S&S directions and now I'm in the end part of the 500 mile break in. I kept the rpms in 2500-3500 rpm range for first 50 miles, then tried few times up to 4200rpm near 100 miles. I have now about 250 miles in, tried to roll to 5000 rpm twice. Man, this thing pulls good! No smoke coming out of exhaust and plugs look decent, looking good so far. Can't wait to finish the 500 miles, change the oils and see what this puppy can do in 6000 rpm range. I have oil catch can and vacuum pump ready for installation, not that popular solution with Harleys? For now, I routed the cylinder head oil fumes out after head PCV valves so the air intake stays clean. Keep up the good work!
I just had catastrophic failure of my 114” Harley engine. And the more I watch your videos, the less I want to put more miles on that bike, till you or someone like you worked that motor towards bulletproofing the engine. Maybe I’ll just sell it and buy a Metric.
I have a 2011 Street Bob came with a 96 cubic inch motor. I decided to do fueling 574 cams, fueling race series lifters, fueling HP oil pump and cam plate with a screaming Eagle 103 big bore kit. I have Vance and Hines fuel pack as a tuner. I went back and fourth with V&H on getting a map and the bike ran rich, like blowing black clouds out the exhaust rich. Toned that way down and the bike ran pretty well. I did the same process, not above 3500 rpm, varying rpm and so fourth for 1,000 miles. Bring it in for an oil change and the mechanic says “that’s not 3 quarts of oil that came out” long story short I’m on my 2nd oil change and this bike is drinking oil. Mechanic pulled it all apart and the rings didn’t seat correctly. Cylinders are being sent out to be honed and new rings are ordered. My question is what is the ideal tuner to be running?
Sorry, I failed to mention that I was runner up with the Chrysler Division Trouble Shooting Contest back in the day. Honestly, I don't know if that means anything at all? Lol.
The best lecture I had. I know nothing about the technicality of the engine but I can relate this from my past experienced. That explain a lot on the outcome. Thank you sir. You're a great guru I say. Will apply this to my upcoming new engine.
Just had Harley put in a 95” SE on an old 2000 Softail. Still on breakin and using oil. Been pussyfooting. Cylinders freshly honed & deglazed. Maybe going hard a bit may seal it more???
What if a brand new Stage IV has 59 miles on it on the show room floor? He said they were dyno miles. How should I proceed from this point? It is Black Hills Harley Davidson and they built a leftover 2021 Softail Slim. Would they likely have done what you recommend?
This may seem odd , you just explained the exact break in I have run for 30+ years (except the fuel injection of course) , only I generally don't use assembly line at all . I assemble using only the engine oil that I'm running in the engine (Royal Purple) except the oil pump . There I use Royal Purple assembly lube . All of my buddies that build their own motors wonder why my motors always run stronger and longer , I tell them it's the break in .
Great video hey Kevin could you do a video on spark plug reading. They are hard to find on you tube.with today’s fuels and injection. I was just wondering what a plug should look like
Question... I'm seriously considering purchasing a new Pan America special this summer. I'd like to get your opinion on the bike and especially the engine, transmission. Thanks much!! dp.
Sounds like my break in got effed off from the gate. Had a faulty 02 (wideband) that caused the bike to stall and not idle for the first few miles, it was running quite rich as well, didn't change the break in oil until about 200 miles either. Builder also told me not to go above 3,500 RPMs in the first 500 as well.
Hey Kevin, hope this reaches you. I just put a 124" kit with SS cam, oil pump, etc... I did get bigger injectors. 5.5. I am taking the bike to a tuner on a dyno about an hour away.. My question is, can I start up the bike for a minute with the bigger injectiors and no tune to check for leaks or weird noises..Really do not want to trailer the bike over an hour away for it have a leak and have to trailer it back, fix it and go back out.. or is that a big no? I am used to carbs, first time big boring a fuel injected bike..
So basically, get the new bike, let it warm up for 30 seconds, the. Take it for a short ride maybe 3-5 miles, shifting at 2500 rpm, then let it cool down. Then next ride short ride, shifting at 3000 rpm, rinse and repeat too 6k rpm,. Once all these short breakin rides are done, then go for a wide variety rides, changing rpms etc. is this basically it?
I follow the owners manual suggestions. My dad…run the hell out of it from the beginning. I do give some credence to my dads theory. I’ve seen identical bikes broke in his way and the factory suggestions on another. Performance advantage to my dads way of break in. ?????
I broke in all of my Japanese sport bikes by redline runs in seconds gear and allowing cool down periods. Never had a failure but with the new HD they replaced the pistons, cylinders and heads at 900-miles. Harley needs go out of business and let the rich leather vest wearing yuppies play golf instead of pretending to be outlaw bikers.
I had a supercharged cobra mustang that was built with forged pistons and blowby was bad and we fixed it by switching them out to hyperutectic, but had to reduce boost a little. This is an amazing description thank you
I would have liked for you to include the types of pistons, rings, and honing process that harley uses so we know what we have. Also I have heard they fo and dont hest cycle the motors at the factory before shipping.Tried looking it up snd cant find the info anywhere.
Can you explain why Police cars and taxis are driven hard from brand new, never run in and last just as long as cars that have been run in? I worked for Ford as a mechanic for over 20 years and Taxis and Police do more Klms than anyone and have no extra issues than other vehicles. police cars actually feel like they rev better.
I have built racing engines for 35 yrs lake speed from total seal and I have tested rings to are minds have melted lol. Rings are done sealing in mins. I put 100k engines on the dyno and beat the shit out of it. Never any blow by issues . Babying it will screw you ever time not enough pressure pushing out on the rings
I screwed a new 81 Low Rider and a new 82 classic before I even got them home from the dealer ! Driving too fast for too long! I blame it on the beverage I was having too much of!😯!
I installed a crate engine in a boat (Mer cruiser or 350 Chevrolet) and when I was breaking in the engine I started loosing power and I wasn't sure what was going on and I had to increase throttle just to keep going. I found out that the distributor was loose and it was slowly retarding ignition. Unfortunately I found out too late and the engine began burning oil. (Moral of the story is when your not sure what's going on just shut it down and start investigating). Had I done that it would have saved the rings. (Not sure this is a break in story but I thinks is a lesson in what not to do.)
way way to much information . I am not going to analyze the fuel /air mixture . Never going to take out the plugs to look at the cylinder walls . Why would I do a leak down test ?
Ok, so you buy a new bike and it has 50-60 miles on it? The break in process could be destroyed by a person moving the bike in and out of the showroom!!! Right?
Yes sir. You are correct. Repeated starting with a rich fuel mixture, combined with not getting the engine hot enough to evaporate all the moisture inside the engine, can have quite a negative effect. In fact, i NEVER even start an older engine just to let it idle for a little while. I dont crank it if i dont plan on driving it.
Take my money! Jesus.. i swear your the most competent engine guy i have ever heard!.. btw i come from aviation and have heard it all on breaking in engines.. you understand it better than anyone else I have ever heard talk about engines.
@@KevinBaxter I'll be in touch I have a sporty that in the winter I'm going to want to hop up and get on the track a bit more next season... mix it up with the metric guys ;-)... too bad buells are getting so rare.. i run an FTR1200... amazing bike.. but too much electronics for my style and makes me a worse rider on the track... faster, but sloppy with electronics.. i want get back to simple... I'm also trying to start collecting nice evo big twin bikes, 90s era.. . I'll be looking on your website if any come around..
Wow, that is the most thorough engine break-in process I've ever heard of. I trust you tons sir. Great video. If I ever have engine work done in the south east, I'll be sure to have it done with your business.
Had my 03 built, guy that did it said he had the rings seated, and informed me of the process Wich was much of what you stated. Told me take it out and run the piss out of it. Never had any issues
My dad was a heavy industrial mechanic. I grew up listening to the exact same explanation you preached over the last half hour. When others disagreed he would just sit , listening and smile. The reason I like your videos is knowledge. Thanks.
Kevin,
I learned a lot from this video. I always heat cycle 3-4 times, on the lift, then take the bike for an easy short ride 5- 10 miles then take it to my tuner. I've been using the auto tuners for my builds from "Fuel Motto"( they match up the air /fuel for me) which seems to be working good, then have it Dyno tuned after a few hundred miles. I only build basic street bikes, nothing like hi performance race bikes, however, I do realize how important a good time is. Thanks Again Kevin
😊
This is some next level content on youtube. Thanks for all the great info in your videos.
My pleasure! Thank you!
No doubt, that was the best explanation I've heard thus far on the function and purpose of all these components and the importance of doing it correctly! Excellent presentation Kevin, thanks!
Brian
Centennial Cycle Repair LLC
Last engine I broke in (60's Harley Sprint SS-250) I idled it on first startup for 5 minutes. Cooled completely. Second start, slowly revved up to mid range a few times from cold for 5 minutes. Let cool overnight. 3rd cycle, 15 minute ride around town. Loading the engine up with ¾ throttle at lower mid range rpm and not sitting at any rpm aside from stopped for traffic. Immediately changed the hot oil with tons of metal and glitter. Next 500 miles rode normally while loading up the engine and accelerate to a limited rpm. Every 100 miles, increasing limit by 500 (starting with 3k). Changed oil at 500 to find very fine material in suspension. Great compression, no smoke, no consumption, good milage, runs like a top. VR1 Valvoline 20w-50.
when i bought my harley they pretty much told me what you said as to the 500 miles. cool.
Yeah same here. But does Harley start the engine at the factory? I know the first few minutes are important and dealership mechanics should ride a new bike for ~13 miles (or so I’ve been told).
When I purchased my 2020 Heritage, it had 1 mile on it! BTW, I about passed out when all the salesman celebrated my purchase by starting a new bike and revving the engine at high rpms! I purchased a 2021 SGS and you should have seen how the salesman treated the new bike he used to go on a test ride with me. Crazy!
Anyway, awesome video! I really appreciate your level of knowledge and professionalism.
Man great teaching, your are gifted! One of the best topics discussed in the channel🙏🙌
Glad you enjoyed it. i appreciate it.
OK Kevin, 1o7 twin cam build S/S FW 570g cams flowed heads oil pump etc. followed my builders Break-in and in 60 miles I checked oil filter metal flakes silver . Round two I did the heat in method we at 1200 miles now...PEACE!
Great knowledge and break in process. In the old days some people would say run it hard, for break in. ha! beat it into submission, again that sounds crazy. what I leaned today from your video, is the crosshatch specs. I never knew that. [ I am working on a 1976 shovelhead] Kevin, Thanks for another great video.
That's great info thanks for the hard work putting this together. Got a complete S&S motor coming and I will follow their breakin process to the T.
Glad to help
Great video. I’m learning so much from all your videos! Thanks so much for your time doing the videos.
I enjoy your vids. I bought an 06 ultra Classic as my first Harley last year. After watching your video on cam chain adjusters, I bought the Screaming Eagle cam plate kit. You may have just saved me a ton of money, and my feelings for Harleys. Thanks so much for taking the time to educate us.
There's a big difference from a street engine compared to a race engine break in, great and informative video
Yes sir there is. Thanks!
I'll definitely share.
Just finished my 124" Twin cam S&S build. My local shop definitely ran it threw a few heat cycles. Once done, they had about 30 miles on it. Then, I was told to ride her from about 2500-4500 RPMs. They cautioned me not to go below 2500 RPMs too often, as the engine doesn't like lugging. I'll say, once I started riding her, I definitely felt heard some pinging at the lower RPM ranges. Brought her back to the shop and they told me the ignition timing was a bit strong, and they pulled back a bit. Didn't hear the pinging much after that.
I've got about 280 miles on her now. Wondering what she looks like inside and how the rings sealed. I'd love to be able to send over a sample for testing. Curious how the break in process faired for me.
Thanks for sharing, Kevin. As always, your videos help me understand the what and why, better than anyone else.
Best description of ring chatter I've heard, only recently found your videos and have been bingeing. I had a cupboard full of ECU's, injectors and carburetors specifically for running in engines on an engine dyno, each one is specifically tuned for a particular build and marked to get as close as possible to ideal AFR for bedding in, then replaced with the ones belonging to the engine and tuned to match the particular application the engine has been built for. Also send the filter with the oil to be analyzed for metal content, particulate size, ash content etc.. Been retired for a few years now and still dabble when I get the chance, the changes in technology march on, and yet remain much the same regardless. Just bought a new bike (FLSB) with an M-8 and I'm looking forward to stripping it down for a look see, either when it's out of warranty, or when I decide to say stuff it and open it up for a bit of massaging (watched the vid on crank alignment, food for thought) and maybe a few more cubes.
thank you sir. that is a great idea. nice to read about things done proper. good on ya sir!.
I bought a 2020 new Harley davidson lowrider 107.i already have 12,700 miles on it beautiful motor.i the tech at Harley davidson dealer.in Effingham ilinios told me to just keep it under 3,500 ram the first 1,000 miles and under 50 mph the first 50 miles no issues with the bike at all.
Kevin, my experience has been from automotive, by adjusting or varying the speed from 20 mph to 30 mph dropping it down then continuing maybe 25 to 35 then slowly increasing the speed but, keeping it under 60 for the first 500 miles. I continued the process with my bikes and seem to have an advantage after break in over everything I raced. Start with my brother's GTO then my 454 El Camino to my first Z1 900 bored to 1040 now to my Supercharged V Rod Muscle which You are going to help me with the maping when I am ready. Great series thanks.
My man....a car guy. As you know, that along with bikes has been in the blood since birth. I would agree with most of that especially with auto engines. I practiced that as well with air cooled bike engines as well but started to notice many years ago, that my procedure had to be modified for various reasons to break it in quicker. One, air cooled engines require more fuel than liquid cooled. Example...those cars you list, id tune AFR around 14.2 give or take at idle, and between that and 14.5 at cruise. These engines require 13.4 to 13.8 at idle and 14.1 give or take at cruise to keep them cool. So with the richer required mixture, I found if i break them in more aggressively, i get a better leakdown and CCP after break in than doing it using a slower less aggressive method. Great comment James...thank you so much for taking the time and for the sub. I look forward to hearing more from you.
Great break in tips. Will use!
5 Builds and only 1 fail with blow by Pre Cut gap at 22th New Rings Fast hone 20 strokes then filed the rings to 14th gap they seated fine .Carb engine Evo 1340 with Screaming Eagle heads .
On My Harley's I Basically Do what you said Including Decels which Seals my Rings and All Moving parts Perfect to where my bikes have Way Above Average Power , No to Very Little Oil Usage and Very High Milage . On Sport bike where Manufacturer Recommends a given Rpm by Specific Mileage I'll Calculate the Length/ Mileage of Rides and Incrementally add Say 500 RPM each Ride to my Break in Procedure which may take me up to Several weeks mainly do to Duration of Rides which vary Around 70 Miles each Ride..And even after Break in I'll Ensure that at least Once During my Ride I'll Redline my Bike in two / three Gears then Allow for full Cool down..
Excellent info, Thanks Kevin.
Ok ,since you asked: for other bikes.... Yamaha Bolt, ( 2019 spec, as mine sits : 58 cubes, 59.3 foot pounds at 3000 rpm , 5870 rpm, 65 hp,107 mph, wet weight 547 pounds, 27 inch seat height, 30 inch bar spread. meaning 22 inches between your thumbs, .... mid controls, rake 29 degrees, lean angle 37 degrees left and right) , Spec says : first 600 kms, no more than 1/3 throttle, .... We assume here 1800 rpm. ( max-wrist is 120 degrees of twist..... No Tach ....), for the first 600 kilometres. Change oil and filter. Then same , but not more than 1/2 throttle for the next 400 kms.... lol. So assumed if max-wrist is 5870 rpm, ( which I repeat, is max torque for bike . 59.3 ft #s.then 1/2 wrist for this is going to lug the engine if you aren't paying attention. stay off the highways ... ha!) .... so ok..Then oil and filter change. then at 1600 kms do same, filter-oil change and "good-to -go , ride as normal . To quote Yamaha " Has Ceramic coated cylinders: and I use 10W-50 oil, in all changes . Must be that the cylinders are RMS 16 or RMS 8 finishes to get the required sealing to occur. Bike works awesomely .... except for that "Yamaha-Tick".
I'm thinking that the valve clearance on the valves was "upped" by ).002 to 0.004 " on the inlet and outlets to prevent new-user trashing the engine. ?? Bugs the crap out of me why Yammy would do that ...... why not just key the fuel injection system to rev-limit during break-in period, .... ugghhh.
Stay Safe!!
W
anytime specialty coated cyls or pistons are thrown in the mix, different break in procedures can be necessary. There are many factors....too many to really squeeze into a video.
Great video! If I was building a custom bike you would be building the engine!
Great video, heat cycling is what I've been told works on rebuilds, What about a new motor tthat'salready been on the dyno or in the test lab at the factory and has been taken right through the rev range to check for issues. Isn't that motor broken in already?
Another great video. Thanks for the education. I’ve learned so much since subbing your channel. I’ll probably never used most of what I’ve learned, but I love knowing it.
Thank you sir
Great video. Couldn’t agree more. I have heard builders say that you can drive it like you stole it. Very scary. I always use 500 miles with new vehicles both cars bikes and snowmobiles. Go easy and up and down the rpm range nothing constant. My grandpa taught me that decades ago. 👍
if we are building a very high end full blueprint...big power engine....and there arent special piston coatings, etc....we will get the tune right asap then give it all shes got right out of the gate...but it depends on the intended purpose of the engine.
Great in-depth detail, very good.
Thank you kindly!
Awesome Explanation
I just did a 98” on my 05 efi dyna and on the heat cycles get it to operating Temp four times letting it cool in between? Has wiseco forged piston ring kit no coding I have a power vision so I should be able to get the AFr at the 13.8-14.1 o and my cylinders were plateau honed they also used torque plates hillside did the jugs i’m getting very mixed opinions on this some say do not let it get to running temp for the heat cycles but I’ve been watching your videos for a few weeks and it seems to me really know your stuff thank you for all your help and knowledge you have helped me a lot and have educated me a lot through these videos
Good timing, Kevin. I bought a 20 Low Rider S one week before the Zombie Apocalypse hit. Between work and constant rain I've only been able to put 120 miles on it so far. Matter of fact, I have a sneaking suspicion that the universe hates me and this entire situation might be a result of my purchase. =P
I'll be listening to this in full tomorrow while I'm working. I'm a crane operator at an ocean port, and we're still working vessels. This will keep my mind off the fact that one of the 300+ people I work with just tested positive, after working for the past 2 weeks while feeling like shit and not telling anyone. But, the Dalia Lama says that I will receive total enlightenment on my death bed, so I have that going for me, which is nice.
Thanks man. Be safe out there and best of luck. Next I'm expecting to find out covid causes zombies.
You are the Man!!
Hi Kevin! You are awesome to listen and watch your videos. Such knowledge. Thanks for all advices. You are polite and professional. Thanks a lot for a great program. Greetings Peder 😊🇸🇪👋🏻
Gr8 video Kevin! Where would I find basic pricing on builds on an M-8 ?
These tech videos a really great mate keep them coming
I had no idea this was so critical in the very first few miles! Harley’s demo ride policy precludes most of us to take delivery of a zero miles bike. Who knows what the other test riders did to evaluate how a bike feels or performs. Salesman can’t ride along like in a car to supervise reasonable driving habits. I suppose as the new owner we could ask for engine oil analysis and leak down tests etc before we took delivery but if they came back out of spec, assuming a dealership told us the truth of those test results, the motor company would be left with a bike the couldn’t sell without a new engine(downside!) or a real reason to deny warranty claims due to probable improper break-in(upside)... Never happen prolly but maybe other manufactures “no test ride” policies now make some real sense. My “new” ‘17 M8 bought in late ‘18 had relatively many test ride miles on it already. By chance I essentially did your procedure til 1000 miles after I took possession. Time will tell.
Brilliant, very interesting (as always) especially because I bought a new FXLRS 4 weeks ago and been worrying a great deal about this, found myself in the wrong gear a couple of times and slogged it for a couple of seconds, also when overtaking topped 4,000 revs for a few seconds with only 200 miles on the clock. What I would love to know is, do the factory do any test running and what my local dealer probably did on the first 5 miles which were on the clock when I collected the bike?
Many thanks for all your videos.
Great video. But,,,, as a machinist for the last 40 yrs or so I always cringe a bit when I hear “ tight tolerances” when talking about pistons etc. Need to make sure we are talking about reduced clearances. Tolerances means the difference in actual finished dimensions of a batch of parts. Clearances are the measured differences of mechanical assemblies. Reduced clearances require tightened tolerances but terminology matters. Again a great video .
Of course we both know you are absolutely correct. Thank you for pointing that out that I could've explained it a little better. Often i find myself debating on terms to use for clarity sake...trying to maintain perspective that most of the viewers have limited experience with the meat and potatoes of this line of work. For those that read this, Twinstick is right. "Tolerances" refer to variance from required size. Example... if a spec is 1". The "tolerance" could be +/- 1/16" meaning its acceptable for the work to be 1-1/16"-15/16". If we run a "tighter tolerance", we could say 1" +/- 1/32". Reduced clearances are simply that....a "tighter fit" or "closer fit".
Since you went down the piston tech rabbit hole a little here I'm curious to know your thoughts on Teflon and ceramic coatings. Or is that a subject for another video?
each have their place no doubt. often the mistakes come from using different pistons in the wrong application...or what it wasnt best suited for. many stock pistons come with teflon coating but most forged do not. i guess i dont really have an opinion either way. we went the high end route on our pistons with the abraidable coatings and anodizing...pricey but well worth it.
Great video. I love how much info you include in your videos. How do you watch AFR at idle. I'm new to this and putting together a motor currently. Hope next week to turn it over. Thanks
Since you're new to this and tackling your first HD build, I'd like to help you out. Give me a call tomorrow at the shop and I can walk you thru some options. 6782269651.
Great job telling how to break it in, i sure learned somethings there you just told. I never heard, but never forget cause it makes cents better safe than sorry. well good job telling and showing and have a good one see ya next time see ya bye.
Thanks for this video! I 'm always gentle with a new engine. Start doing small distances in curvie roads and I build up the pressure and rpm's for about 1000 mhls . And warming up the engine not by just let it idle , but start riding gentle so it warms up quicker to normal operating temperatures. When I think , after a few 1000 mhls the engine is ok , I'm not aftraid to trash it (on operation temp) . So many times I hear people say it's not important to brake in a new car because of the new machining techniques . I'm old scool so I stay with my own ideas. Kevin, your info has given me a better knowledge about the different materials. Thanks .
Once again another excellent viedo. Thank you.
Thanks again! Appreciate the support.
Do you recommend any different break in process for a new engine vs a rebuild?
If every manufacturer would explain break-in procedure like you did here, there would be no misconceptions. Great video, sir 👍🏻
Thank you very much. And I agree. Lol
Kevin Baxter dang. I miss school sometimes 🙂 I’m subscribed, of course.
After 25 miles on bike on first street run should u see oil on top of piston & wet walls?
Man, do all Harley techs do this, or just you. I can’t imagine the local HD dealer spending that much time and effort to break a motor in.
from what i've seen over the years, very, very few people will take that much time to break in an engine that way. most put a "break in" map in it and send the customer on their way for a few hundred miles.
@@KevinBaxter I’m planning on buying a new Harley in the new year. After watching this am I better off picking it up on a trailer and taking it to get a proper tune installed before I ride it home
@@nathananderson2298 Kevin will Correct me if I'm wrong but take your Climate into Consideration and Altitude. The New M8's are said not to run too lean. Stick to Break in Procedure regarding Mileage of First Two Rides , Vary Rpm,,Not Exceeding 3000/3500 and plenty of Decel ..I've had Several New Harleys including Sport bikes and Procedure can be Somewhat different.. But my Current 20 Fxlrs has Loads of Power,,Awesome mileage,, Almost Nil oil Use and has Never Missed a Beat ..Avoid Highways During your Initial Break in as its Harder to Vary Rpm..Also I wouldn't Exceed app 50 miles Distance followed by Several Cooling cycles.
@@paulhorvath9784 I’m picking up a new 2020 low rider s in the coming weeks so I will certainly follow these directions!
One smart dude. Best info I've ever gotten.
Glad it was helpful! thank you samuel.
Where do you send your oil for analysis?
I bought a 1200 sportster brand new in 1995. Had to drive immediate first 30 miles on interstate between 60-75 mph. Tried to vary speeds after that. It was about 50 F that first ride so that probably was helpful. Sold bike with 50K on engine running like new. Changed Mobil 1 15W-50 every 3-5k.
Excellent video!
highly doubt any tech does the steps you describe...that's be 20 hrs in labor cost. thorough, tho.
Right on Kevin! Very good presentation. Many folks will not follow these guidelines. This is one of those subjects that, unfortunately, very much wrong info gets put out about it. With you 100% on your advise here.
Thanks Rick! Hope many take the advice. I appreciate your membership sir.
Kevin i have a 2012 tri-glide, 103, tuner, true duels, air cleaner . i am going to replace rings and hone jugs . "oil burning". want to put gear drive cams but don't think it will take them. i don't have it pulled apart yet. so can i put gear drive on cams at rear of cam chest and chain from front so i don't have to worry with tensioner on rear of cam chest ? i am 6'3 380 and wife is 140 what would be a good cam that i can put in ? we do a lot of travel and sometimes i pull a trailer. thank you for all you do. love your videos.
I would only hone the jugs if...there is enough material to allow for it without exceeding piston clearance spec, if the cylinder isn't tapered too much, etc. Often, they are so far out, your effort will be wasted. Honestly...take off cylinders are cheap. Maybe 50 bucks. Find a set of 88 or 96 inch used cyls (3.75 bore), have them bored and honed to your current pistons if they spec right, then install new rings. I have many cores I could sell you for 50 bucks. 250 to bore and hone but youd want to send me your pistons to measure. As for the cam...a few choices. If you can, shoot me an email to kevin@protwin.com and I'll send you information tomorrow. Thanks.
Again Mr Baxter. highly informative .I never considered heat cycles but I do now. I thought you stretching them out like a rubber band till thy losen up progressively increasing rpm with milage .Thanks for your time and insight .Sir you are a Mechanical patriot . Stay well
Thank you so much Scott! All the best sir. Your support is greatly appreciated.
To break it in like you're going to ride it.. if it's like a bad out of hell ,?or not.? but I did have my shovelhead stroked and I did break it in like you're saying that it get heated up let it cool all the way down, but I rode it a little bit each time ,and let it cool all the way down and rode it some more let it cool down.But I didn't go in . 500 RPMs increments, but thank you very much for the insight..Thanks. I love your videos they're very educational.yo PaL, BradyTheKid
You do an excellent job explaining your video's Thanks Kevin
I heard someone say the only reason the dealers tell you to not go over 3500 RPM is because they use a lighter weight oil in the engine for the break in period. That sound a little foolish to me. As you stated, we can ask 100 different people and get 100 different answers. Your explanation is very informative. excellent content, Thank you!
I just bought my very first NEW bike off the showroom floor, but it already had about 5 miles on it. Should I genuinely be concerned? I purchased it but don’t pick it up until spring. 23 heritage softail 114. The dealer is an hour and a half from my house, and it’s pretty much nothing but a small town and a bunch of rural highways.
I never even thought about break-in on my pickup when I bought it new. Went straight from the dealer to the highway. Drove it like I pretty much always would, minus the occasional goofing around from time to time.
So, when I do pick the bike up, I planned on riding it out of there. As a basic minimum, what should I actually do right there in the parking lot?
What we do with c15 caterpillar as soon as we build it we warm it up to 195 degrees for 4 cycles of thermostat then
We put it on the Dyno and bit heck out of it like it’s pulling 80,000 pounds up the
6% grade because only have little time of
Sharp edges on the piston rings just like
Your shaving razors so before it gets round or lose shaving sharpness we try to achieve a perfect seal , and that’s our story but of course we have a twin piston air compressor that I think has a similar
Displacement as most harleys and its liquid cooled,we don’t pay much attention
to that 😂
You have a great ability to explain details.
I built tc88 to 98. 2003 fxsti a simple project cam tensioner turn into a rebuild
Head work, cam, cc chambers, scavenging oil pump, cp pistons ft 9.5-1
Ok break in
I used assembly lube on the pistons and rings. Interesting thought you gave on using regular oil. I prefer to "wash" the inside and clean away debris.
Crank the motor until the oil pressure gauge had a reading.
Put the plugs in, fuse for fuel pump and ran the engine for about 30 seconds. Let it completely cool then took it for a short ride. Let it cool again.
Then took it for a ride at night temp about 65 degrees on the parkway. Accelerated slowly up to 50, staying under 2000 rpm, then down shift to increase vacuum to suck up oil to get to the top ring. I change the oil/filter (amsoil 20/50) at 50 miles, then 150 then 500. It took forever to get to 1000 miles. Now I get on it and does it pull in 6th
I wish I would have found your video BEFORE the rebuild.
Thanks
Did you use amsoil throughout whole break in? I heard to use dyno for break in then switch whatever oil you like. Thoughts?
Absolutely great vid. 🇦🇺
Right it like you stole it never had a issue haha
I personally break in my new builds on the dyno. Initial start up I’ll throttle up to about 1800 rpm and warm it up to 160°. Then let it cool completely. I’ll do that twice more to 180° with full cooling between each. Then I’ll do the same warm up and run it fairly easy up to 4th gear then with a 10% load I’ll do 20-25% throttle from 1500 to 3000 then fully let off throttle to slow it bavk to 1500. I’ll do that 3 times then cool completely. Next will be the same but to 4000 and then the same to 5500. Complete cool down between each and get progressively more aggressive with throttle input. Once it’s cooled down from the 5500 rpm runs I’ll begin tuning. Corrections in AFR will be made throughout break in as required. I try to keep it around 13.8
Sick hone the rings in excellent 👌 video .new viewer
Thank you Scott!!!!
02 cvo wide glide 88TC 1st engine build (before TH-cam). 585 s&s 95 ci piston & jugs Mikuni carb. I was given so much bad info and advice on jetting, break in and assembly that the rear cylinder decintigrated within 10 min. (Not Blaming, My responsibility!!!)
1. Told to Port heads and intake by hand.
2. Larger valves and jetting not needed for this build.
3. Clutch would be fine. I could go to belt drive if I wanted.
4. No break in required.
Got several how to references based on popular TV shows of the time. And automotive references as well.
$$$LESSON LEARN!!$$
Man hate to hear of your bad experiences. I would like to offer this...if anyone ever gives you advice on this stuff, always ask them why. If you ask enough why's you'll eventually get to one of 3 things....either that's the way I've always done it, that's my opinion or how i was told, or you get facts and true explanations that can be confirmed. I'd trust the last one most. Wish you better luck sir.
on mikuni carb jetting .Go to SUDCO for all jets.
@@KevinBaxter Thanks for all the great videos, Kevin. Incidentally, the "five whys" technique was originally developed by the Toyota Motor Corporation to evaluate its manufacturing methodologies. The idea is that the answer to the fifth "why" question will reveal the root cause of the problem being encountered.
Good Video. I was a manufacturing Engineer for Waukesha Engines, Briggs and Stratton and Harley Davidson. Most folks are not aware how critical honing is. The days of running a ball hone or flap disk in a bore are long over. Suffocated gaging equipment is required to measure all the parameters such as Ra, Rq, Rvk, Rpk, Wa, Wq, Pa, Pq and more, typically made by Taylor Hobson and Hummelwerk's. When working at Harley, they called your skipping "singing rings." I have a new Tri Glide with about 550 miles on it. With the knowledge I have, I followed your suggested break in almost to the letter.
I sure wish I had one, but... My son-in-law is building a 383 for my newly purchased 55 Chevy Sedan delivery, and I can hardly wait to take back possession of it. Love how you break everything down so us unwashed can easily understand. Keep up the good work and remain safe. In the meantime I'm having to rely on my yamaha 650 classic. Too bad I live in Houston as I just began THAT adventure 2 years ago at the age of 67. True, it ain't a hog, but we do what we can.
Great information sir, appreciate your input.
Picking my RG up tomorrow at Werner’s House of HP, going from 103-107, 585 cams and CNC ported heads, his break in process sounds EXACTLY like yours. Thanks again, love your informative videos.
Great video. FYI... I just purchased two of your Baxter Garage T-Shirts. I'll make sure I'm wearing one next time I visit RDS.
Heck yeah man. I saw that come thru. I really appreciate it. I'll be up at RDS later this summer. Rob is a great fella and trusted friend. Have a great deal of respect for him.
Was told 500 mile break in various rpm nothing over 4 grand and the start up warm up and cool down right at fist🗡
Broken in as you recommended, and it runs perfectly. It does not use any oil, the drain plug magnet is clean, and you have a copy of my oil analysis from the lab. Job well done sir, thank you very much. ...LT
All is good in the hood my friend. Glad that beast is serving you well. Thank you my friend.
Well where do I start. 2003 88B TC Night train. drop $6200+ for a 107 S&S stroker upgrade. in 50 miles the engine sqeeels (low) and stops. #*@&&&$%@*% trailer home open oil filter slap full of gold silver dust... and black chunks. Took pictures sent to buider first thing he says "That didn't come from inside you didn't clean all the tank and lines (yes I did but motor never failed originally) so I told him "Well if it's my fault I'll handle it. He returns I warranty my work if it's my fault which I doubt. Then copells me to bring it to him by saying if you or anyone else opens it up bets are off you can't come to me and yada yada yada got to dissaseble completly to get all the debris iut ...Drop it off wait and wait then email it's ready with a bill for$1263.$#*0))$@$ WHAT! court thing still urrent and the "FIXED" engine seized the rear AGAIN at 1800 miles on I-4 leaving Orlando she got hot. BUTT Wait Boss thats not even the good stuff . Now I got the motor apart and low and behold stock "STOCK" camplate and oil pump. %$*$er took out the gold screamin eagle plate andoil pump. I've also bought the S&S camplate and oil pump....Sorry but it's quite frustrating being without all the money and a motorcycl
Very good information! I'll need to watch your other videos too. I have built some old school V8s, dirt bikes etc. in the past and recently started playing with Harleys. One thing to remember also is to clean all the parts good before assembly. I just built 124 M8 with S&S parts, 525cc injectors, 64mm throttle body etc. I did some port work on the throttle body too. I had heads ported with new valve job by retired old school cylinder head guy who used to be Joe Mondello's student. Ended up with 11.2:1 static compression. I use ThunderMax tuner, set the cruising AFR to 13.5:1 and 13:1 for heavier throttle. Completed couple idle heat cycles per S&S directions and now I'm in the end part of the 500 mile break in. I kept the rpms in 2500-3500 rpm range for first 50 miles, then tried few times up to 4200rpm near 100 miles. I have now about 250 miles in, tried to roll to 5000 rpm twice. Man, this thing pulls good! No smoke coming out of exhaust and plugs look decent, looking good so far. Can't wait to finish the 500 miles, change the oils and see what this puppy can do in 6000 rpm range. I have oil catch can and vacuum pump ready for installation, not that popular solution with Harleys? For now, I routed the cylinder head oil fumes out after head PCV valves so the air intake stays clean. Keep up the good work!
Absolutely. Great job on your build. Glad it worked well for you! Thanks for the comment.
I just had catastrophic failure of my 114” Harley engine. And the more I watch your videos, the less I want to put more miles on that bike, till you or someone like you worked that motor towards bulletproofing the engine.
Maybe I’ll just sell it and buy a Metric.
I have a 2011 Street Bob came with a 96 cubic inch motor. I decided to do fueling 574 cams, fueling race series lifters, fueling HP oil pump and cam plate with a screaming Eagle 103 big bore kit. I have Vance and Hines fuel pack as a tuner. I went back and fourth with V&H on getting a map and the bike ran rich, like blowing black clouds out the exhaust rich. Toned that way down and the bike ran pretty well. I did the same process, not above 3500 rpm, varying rpm and so fourth for 1,000 miles. Bring it in for an oil change and the mechanic says “that’s not 3 quarts of oil that came out” long story short I’m on my 2nd oil change and this bike is drinking oil. Mechanic pulled it all apart and the rings didn’t seat correctly. Cylinders are being sent out to be honed and new rings are ordered.
My question is what is the ideal tuner to be running?
Sorry, I failed to mention that I was runner up with the Chrysler Division Trouble Shooting Contest back in the day. Honestly, I don't know if that means anything at all? Lol.
The best lecture I had. I know nothing about the technicality of the engine but I can relate this from my past experienced. That explain a lot on the outcome. Thank you sir. You're a great guru I say. Will apply this to my upcoming new engine.
Just had Harley put in a 95” SE on an old 2000 Softail. Still on breakin and using oil. Been pussyfooting. Cylinders freshly honed & deglazed. Maybe going hard a bit may seal it more???
What if a brand new Stage IV has 59 miles on it on the show room floor? He said they were dyno miles. How should I proceed from this point? It is Black Hills Harley Davidson and they built a leftover 2021 Softail Slim. Would they likely have done what you recommend?
Another very informative video. Great job explaining in a way I found very useful. 👍👍
thank you
This may seem odd , you just explained the exact break in I have run for 30+ years (except the fuel injection of course) , only I generally don't use assembly line at all . I assemble using only the engine oil that I'm running in the engine (Royal Purple) except the oil pump . There I use Royal Purple assembly lube . All of my buddies that build their own motors wonder why my motors always run stronger and longer , I tell them it's the break in .
Great video hey Kevin could you do a video on spark plug reading. They are hard to find on you tube.with today’s fuels and injection. I was just wondering what a plug should look like
Ron...this is an AWESOME idea and a great short video for my bi-weekly updates. I'll do just that in one next week around Wednesday. Thanks.
Question... I'm seriously considering purchasing a new Pan America special this summer. I'd like to get your opinion on the bike and especially the engine, transmission. Thanks much!! dp.
Sounds like my break in got effed off from the gate. Had a faulty 02 (wideband) that caused the bike to stall and not idle for the first few miles, it was running quite rich as well, didn't change the break in oil until about 200 miles either. Builder also told me not to go above 3,500 RPMs in the first 500 as well.
Hey Kevin, hope this reaches you. I just put a 124" kit with SS cam, oil pump, etc... I did get bigger injectors. 5.5. I am taking the bike to a tuner on a dyno about an hour away..
My question is, can I start up the bike for a minute with the bigger injectiors and no tune to check for leaks or weird noises..Really do not want to trailer the bike over an hour away for it have a leak and have to trailer it back, fix it and go back out.. or is that a big no? I am used to carbs, first time big boring a fuel injected bike..
My evo is carbed and no map sensor. 0.20 over stock bore 10:0:1 high dome forged wisco pistons ev46 cam S&S shorty super e carb. Efi sucks.
So basically, get the new bike, let it warm up for 30 seconds, the. Take it for a short ride maybe 3-5 miles, shifting at 2500 rpm, then let it cool down. Then next ride short ride, shifting at 3000 rpm, rinse and repeat too 6k rpm,. Once all these short breakin rides are done, then go for a wide variety rides, changing rpms etc. is this basically it?
I follow the owners manual suggestions. My dad…run the hell out of it from the beginning. I do give some credence to my dads theory. I’ve seen identical bikes broke in his way and the factory suggestions on another. Performance advantage to my dads way of break in. ?????
Really good video. I'm a brand new viewer and I just subscribed to your channel. Take care...dp
I have a stock 68 xlh 900 with a bendix carb how do i find my AFR without a dyno, btw very good vid, thanks
I broke in all of my Japanese sport bikes by redline runs in seconds gear and allowing cool down periods. Never had a failure but with the new HD they replaced the pistons, cylinders and heads at 900-miles. Harley needs go out of business and let the rich leather vest wearing yuppies play golf instead of pretending to be outlaw bikers.
I had a supercharged cobra mustang that was built with forged pistons and blowby was bad and we fixed it by switching them out to hyperutectic, but had to reduce boost a little. This is an amazing description thank you
I would have liked for you to include the types of pistons, rings, and honing process that harley uses so we know what we have. Also I have heard they fo and dont hest cycle the motors at the factory before shipping.Tried looking it up snd cant find the info anywhere.
Can you explain why Police cars and taxis are driven hard from brand new, never run in and last just as long as cars that have been run in? I worked for Ford as a mechanic for over 20 years and Taxis and Police do more Klms than anyone and have no extra issues than other vehicles. police cars actually feel like they rev better.
I have built racing engines for 35 yrs lake speed from total seal and I have tested rings to are minds have melted lol. Rings are done sealing in mins. I put 100k engines on the dyno and beat the shit out of it. Never any blow by issues . Babying it will screw you ever time not enough pressure pushing out on the rings
I screwed a new 81 Low Rider and a new 82 classic before I even got them home from the dealer ! Driving too fast for too long! I blame it on the beverage I was having too much of!😯!
I installed a crate engine in a boat (Mer cruiser or 350 Chevrolet) and when I was breaking in the engine I started loosing power and I wasn't sure what was going on and I had to increase throttle just to keep going. I found out that the distributor was loose and it was slowly retarding ignition. Unfortunately I found out too late and the engine began burning oil. (Moral of the story is when your not sure what's going on just shut it down and start investigating). Had I done that it would have saved the rings. (Not sure this is a break in story but I thinks is a lesson in what not to do.)
way way to much information . I am not going to analyze the fuel /air mixture . Never going to take out the plugs to look at the cylinder walls . Why would I do a leak down test ?
Ok, so you buy a new bike and it has 50-60 miles on it? The break in process could be destroyed by a person moving the bike in and out of the showroom!!! Right?
Yes sir. You are correct. Repeated starting with a rich fuel mixture, combined with not getting the engine hot enough to evaporate all the moisture inside the engine, can have quite a negative effect. In fact, i NEVER even start an older engine just to let it idle for a little while. I dont crank it if i dont plan on driving it.
Take my money! Jesus.. i swear your the most competent engine guy i have ever heard!.. btw i come from aviation and have heard it all on breaking in engines.. you understand it better than anyone else I have ever heard talk about engines.
Very very kind of you to say Steven. Thanks for taking the time to comment. I greatly appreciate the complement and am happy to hear you enjoy it.
@@KevinBaxter I'll be in touch I have a sporty that in the winter I'm going to want to hop up and get on the track a bit more next season... mix it up with the metric guys ;-)... too bad buells are getting so rare.. i run an FTR1200... amazing bike.. but too much electronics for my style and makes me a worse rider on the track... faster, but sloppy with electronics.. i want get back to simple... I'm also trying to start collecting nice evo big twin bikes, 90s era.. . I'll be looking on your website if any come around..