WHAT IS NORMAL WEAR? - Harley Twin Cam Engine Tear Down - Kevin Baxter - Baxter's Garage
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 3 ธ.ค. 2022
- What is normal wear for a Harley Twin Cam? Join me as we tear down this Harley Twin Cam engine with 15,000 miles to see what normal wear looks like.... and we know knothing about it. Lets tear down this Twin Cam engine apart! A full tear down and diagnosis.
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Pro Twin Performance and Baxter's Garage
723 W Winder Industrial Pkwy
Winder, GA 30680
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mike looks like a retired lt. col who is just here to observe and learn a bit more about harleys after spending 20k on you churching up his new 30k bike
I want Mike's Job.
Great Video. I enjoy listen to your take on wear. Someday I will have to have my 2012 RK 103 tore down. It's a high mileage (327k miles) on it and never had the heads off. So obviously wear should be very different. Be interesting to see and compare to other mileage wear.
Did I just read 327K miles correctly??? I have a 2010 103 that has a little over 100K, Have you ever had any major issues with you're??? Thanks!!
I had to sell my favorite one a 90 road glide with a 100,000 running top notch and still going. I miss that bike . That bike never let me down.
It was very nice to finally see a Harley engine that didn't have anything wrong with it!!
Thank you for the video
Thank you Rick! I agree.
It’s true cause every other video we see of tear downs, just make us look like suckers for buying HD
If rebuilding Harley Davidson engines was an Olympic event Kevin would be the Gold medalist
I did S&S gears and S&S adjustable push rods on my 2003 Electra glide classic and some other goodie’s at about 5000 miles I now have 30 thousand miles never any issues and still runs better than new
That was very interesting to watch, I had HD install new Scremin Eagle Cam Plate with high volume Oil Pump, new Lifters, new Cams. I can’t wait to dig into the old parts that they gave me back to look at the wear patterns, being I know what to look at. Thanks
Forgot And Push Rods
Brother… you make thee best tear-down/build videos on TH-cam. No lie!
Three thousandths runout on the crank, and significant wear on the tensioners at 15K. 15K would be less than a year's mileage for me. Makes you think twice before buying even a low mileage Twin Cam.
Professionalism at his best. Thank you, Sir.
Thank you Kevin and Michael.
I'm learning
Awesome learning with you Sir, thank you!!
Loving the tear down series
Thank you I really enjoyed this one since it's pretty much the same engine I have.
Very beneficial video. I have an ‘04 Dyna wide glide with 8k on the clock. Fixing to do a 10k service and inspect the cam tensioner shoes…gives me an idea of what to look for. THANKS for all you do!
Definitely looking forward to the twin cam softail tear downs and learning something new!
Husband and wife traded in matching road kings 150 thousand miles on each of them evo models and they were making light top end noise
You couldn't give me a twin cam and definitely not a twin cam B motor those are junk
Very cool thanks again for all the education your sharing 😀 👍
my friend bought a new road king with a $4000 upgrade big bore kit so now he is happy. i think on this engine it was a new engine and they took it apart and changed the cams... and that is why the shoes are worn out now. it was super low miles on it when they changed out the cams...
Grate teacher !!!! for a car mech . just learning hd in the past 5 years . i got me a nice 05 fxdl now . love it way more than the mint 09 fxds . better hadling smaller and the 88 ci ponches nice with stage ! V hines etc . ! Love it .
Thank you, sir, for the education. Very well done, and you make it look easy. I appreciate it.
Boilermakers in the house!!! Go Purdue!!!
Awesome show
Very insightful, "normal" was never so interesting :)
Great video! The problem with these videos is that you make it look so easy that I would be tempted to try it, and that is a very dangerous situation!!! The good part is, the engine is still in the Harley and that makes it safe!!! 😂😂😂
Hi! Owning a couple twin cam 96’s I’ve learned a tremendous amount already. Thanks!
Ron
Drumheller Alberta, Canada
Great video Thank you!
My 03 Road King had cam chain tensioners fail in 06 with 45 thousand on the odometer. Harley warrantee folks in Milwaukee denied covering the repair under my extended warrantee, telling me the it was normal wear and I should have had them inspected "earlier". My servicing dealer had the complete service history of the bike and was aware that it had been serviced exactly as required in the manual. When I asked the warrantee rep on the phone at Milwaukee to tell me what page in their 500+ page "service manual" it recommended the tensioners be inspected, and at what milage, he admitted that there was no mention of the cam chain tensioners inspection in the maintenance section of the 03 manual, that the only mention of them was under the total engine tear down and assembly chapter. The following day my dealer called me to tell me the Milwaukee had "reconsidered" and would repair the motorcycle under the extended warrantee. I rode the motorcycle for another 4 years, having the tensioners inspected every 2 years. Both inspections showed that they were failing again and needed replacement.
Take your bike to a shop and have them measure the crank run out if the crank run out is low enough you might be able to get away with a gear driven Cam and get away from all the cam chain shit. Gear Drive is the way to go and it should have been that way straight from the factory. A perfect example of the being counters at work.
Have a good one and thank you for showing telling about that motorcycle motor. see you on the next video see ya bye.
Awsome as per Normal 👍🍻
Thanks Kevin. These videos are very helpful. I have just torn down my first harley. It has some pretty good wear. I havnt done the crank runout due to no guage but I do have grooves where the crank spindle rides within the cam plate that do catch my nails. I am going to take it all to a local machine shop. Not sure if these cranks can be reconditioned or if I need a new one. Kind o a bummer. I bought used from dealer not even 2 years ago.
That 88ci . still good for another 30 miles . mine has 75 k km here in bc canada and is running strong ! It was well kept . !!!!
Nothing wrong with a rich harley, as long as it's not excessive, IMO
Great video
Sounds like a sweet little engine.
Have an 05 Springer Softail. Runs good in warm weather. Better warm it up when it gets cool.
Less than 20k. Haven't checked tensioner but thinking about it.
Just want to ride because it's one sweet little screw.
Great 👍 job 👏
I enjoy your videos.I have a question I was wondering if you ever used rocker lockers on the twin cams? Thankyou
I'm just curious if anyone ever sends in a Sportster Evo to be built.
@Kevin Baxter it seems like most of the time you turn the motor over with a wrench, you are rotating it in reverse.
When finding tdc for instance.
Is there a reason for that other than convenience?
Thanks for the amazing videos and insight.
I really enjoyed watching that tear down. I'm glad I'm at the end of the road. I'm not going to witness the
the end of the enternal combustion
motor.
Internal combustion engine will always be here. Electric anything other than a trolley car is bogus. When the robots do all the work people will not drive to work because they will have no place to go. The roads will be much safer for us on motorcycles then. The Arabs need to sell their oil to support the welfare state in their country. If they were smart they would sell oil cheapest shit to make any other form of energy non economical.
Yep. I'm 42 and it's something that's been weighing on me heavily. I don't want to be part of that world. It is being forced on me and I don't want it and didn't ask for it. I don't see how harley could carry on at that point, selling electric bikes.....no way. But then again, the direction harley is headed with the bikes they build now, the company philosophy etc, etc they are basically dead and gone already, in my eyes.
And this is why I'm an evo fan
yeah keep going and hope i make to the sweet part before i have a heartattack
Eventually i will do it up with a 95 or so when i retire . so far i will ride it .but no too hard . !!!! 😉😍 thank you .
Had 6k on my last one when oil pump shattered, updated oil pump and sent it for many many miles!
Hi Kevin, another great video.
The impact wrench you are using, is it a Dewalt and if so, which model is it, and is that particular one the best for tearing down an engine?
Great video! You are always so informative. My concern is that you say there is 15K on the odometer of the bike, but you found out that someone was into the motor and changed the cams. Did they not change the tensioner shoes or did the tensioner shoes get all or most of the wear since the cams change? In my opinion, 15-20 thousand miles from a set of tensioner shoes is just bad engineering. I hope that is for the spring operated and not the newer hydraulic versions. Three thousandths run out probably same as new from what I have heard. However, I am surprised that you didn't check the run out on the other end. The primary side.
Would you see less run-out on the 99-02 model years due to Timkin bearing? My 01 had less than 2 thousants so I went with gear drive cams
Gracias, aprendí bastante, lastima que hasta ahora pude ver tu canal,
Pro job
Another thumbs up! Kevin, what twin cam rebuild specs did you equate to a 427 big block? Can a 4 inch stroke crank be put in a 103 motor with bigger bores for quicker revs and still make good torque?
Kevin, I have always assumed you can't pull a jug to inspect the hashes and rings, and if OK, reassemble; where the rings seated won't be in the same place and rings would have to re-seat again. Is this true? If YES, what is required before reassembling? Thanks a bunch. Love these teardown vids. Preparing to rebuild my first engine (TC88A).
WAIT A MINUTE! 15,000 MILES AND IT'S WORN OUT? Jesus! Now I'm scared to ride my 2008 Ultra Classic with 50,000 on it... SO I have to basically rebuild the entire motor? That's not very comforting....
Just ride it. If you aren’t having any issues don’t worry
Thanks again for good learning insights on the teardown series. Is there a trick to view the secondary cam tensioner wear (hydraulic) without removing the cam plate on a 2007 and later TC motor with the engine installed in the bike?
The outer tensioner is very easy the inside tensioner is a royal pain in the ass. There is no easy way around it. I knew an aftermarket mechanic you said Harley-Davidson did this so we would have work every 40,000 miles. Harley Riders are lucky they can replace the information with a Gear Drive cam.
It gives me hope to see you tear down a "newer " engine without catastrophic failure, maybe there's still a chance for the factory?
Them 203 cam are typically unbeatable on a 88” 95”…
My 88” taken to 95” typically just under 100 ft pd torque and real early.
Exactly right Joseph. I put a set of 203's in my 2000 Roadking at 100,000 kms and couldn't believe how nice they made it ride. Really fattened up the bottom end. She's now at nearly 200,000 kms, so I'll have to check those tensioner shoes before too long! The SE 203 cams are a great lesson in 'Sometimes less is more'.
Maybe I was lucky...but I did run full zinc mineral diesel engine oil in my 2006 FXSTBi..and I replaced the cam chain tensioners at 240,000kms...and yes, they were worn out, bike is still running strong, still never had the heads off.
That was the year they went to hydrolic tighteners. Lot better
wow….the outer cam chain tensioner shoe on my 2016 SGS with 36K miles had hardly any wear compared to that one
Is all crosshatch the same In cylinders?
I see nice crosshatch in my twin cam
but the m8 the crosshatch looks different like it's not crossing more like all one direction.
Kevin kept mentioning pre-2007.........................did the MoCo cheapen assembly again in '07? Is pre-07 a better find, all other things being equal?
At what miles should the b type motor have all the crank tensioners replace
Kevin...for the male and female rod movement, is that minor movement of female rod vs a bit more with the male rod acceptable in a Shovel crank assembly as well? Or is this just for the later TC cranks?
Have an 08 Softail deluxe that I'm going to have the INA cam bearing replaced with a Torrington. Bike has 40000 miles. All from previous owner (s). What type or brand of tappets n pushrods should I replace with? I'll have the cam tensioner shoe looked at. I was told 08 are hydraulic. Does that make a difference? Should I replace cam plate n oil pump with an s&s or leave stock ones in if ok. It is a 96.
I'm looking at a low mileage, 2006 Fatboy, 8600 miles. I concerned about the cam tensioner issue. What is the approximate cost to do the repairs? Recommended mileage? Thanks
a 2005 with 15 k on it. ill put 15k on my bike this winter .... and im in ohio. I love that people dont ride their bikes caz i buy them second had at a great deal.
👍
I'd like to see how fast from a complete motor to crank on bench. 1/2 hour just ripping into it?
How does a complete S&S engine replacement compare to the original Harley? Lots of S&S parts seem to be superior and preferred over the original Harley parts.
Hi, about what milage is it good to check or change the cam shoes on the twin cam hydraulic tensioners, thanks.
18 minute mark
My problen is i will do it all up the rite way with the timken bering too . im like you . do it write !!
Cams must have been changed before tensioners got worn..maybe
Can you tell what cams you have without pulling the plate? Have an 05 WGI with stage 2, 17k miles, need to check the wear over the winter and Don’t want to pull the plate unless needed. I got it used so I don’t know what all was done
Sometimes they are stamped on the snout of the cams.
Was that cam chaim tensioner the old school or the hydraulic? Ive got a 2011, i planned to replace them every 30k
That was the old style spring tensioner. Prone to early failure
Darn it i missed it....
I would guess Mike's an Army, National Guard, Reserves officer. Maybe a Captain?
As 'old' as he is, hopefully his rank is more than Captain. 🙂
Go Boilermakers!!! Go Purdue! Awesome stuff Kevin! Thank you!
8-10k $ and it just needed tensioners. well, I'd probably changed the cam plate to hydraulic tensioners, oh and new butterfly valves and gaskets, maybe oil pump but.....
I bought a 2001 flht standard wt 26,600mils. pinion shaft was .002 out. the vertical movement was .001. intolerance for gear drive cams. I ordered S&S cams 510 lift kit. will a stock cam plate that had spring-loaded shoes, and chains work? what needs to be blocked or plugged on the plate. or should i use a gear drive cam plate? tks great vid.
you can use the stock cam plate. just remove the spring tensioners. follow the directions that s&s gives you. I had a 99 FLHTCUI that I did the same s&s 510 kit on. ran like clockwork after the the gear drive and I never looked back
Matt, I've got an 01 too. I went with gear drive and S&S .510 cams with Screaming eagle cam plate and lifters and higher flow SE oil pump. Also added a Jagg oil cooler
Anyone have a thought or two?? New Zipper’s 107 top-end on a Darkhorse bottom-end with 450miles. The motor had a cough and terrible fuel Economy in addition to unburned fuel made the exhaust unbearable. The Tech did some post break-in checks and found low compression on the front cylinder. Turns out that a valve guide cracked and there is a lot of oil on the piston. What could possibly cause a valve guide to crack? I rode it properly… no oil starvation… and there is no damage to any other parts. I am baffled.
Hard to say really. Cam choice, valve to piston contact, issue with rocker arm, pushrod adjustment if caused coil bind...several things. Could also just be one of those things. Despite every effort, occasionally there can be a part that just fails. Inclusions in metal, etc...things that noone could perceive happening. They are mechanical devices. Hate you had troubles but wish the best.
Thanks Kevin. Zipper’s makes top notch products, so I am confident that this will be resolved. My engine tech is really good, but he could have made an adjustment error during the build. Zipper’s is repairing the head and hopefully we won’t have to revisit the issue. If we do….My bike may be on a trailer heading to Winder, GA. Thanks for the great channel and content.
Youre welcome. Yes they do. I've known Danny Fitz for a couple of decades. We swap ideas and tech quite often. Great fella, great friend. As I said...it could just be one of those things. I've never had a valve guide crack but I have had other things along the way, that you could never foresee despite the most care and attention to detail. I always look at these things as you have...find the cause without pointing fingers. Once the cause is found, it can be resolved without wasting time passing blame. Its a positive life outlook. I respect your candor sir.
👍👍
These are great. I’ve done mechanics work all my life and I’m 67 years old
What year was this TC?
2005. Listen at 10 sec into the clip
The more and more I watch these videos the more I don't want to buy a harley my honda has 130.000 miles all iv done is oil change and tune ups and never had a problem and I ride the hell out of the bike I don't baby it and it is not a garage ornament. I want a street glide m8 but then again is it worth the headache to pay 30.000 on a bike that is not going to be as reliable.
kashmir in the backround
At 15,000 miles the motorcycle is not even broken in yet. They should be nowhere whatsoever but it's a twin cam Harley and they run a 300° and cook their oil so who knows. Such a problematic engine. Harley really should have done better. With this one as well as the twin cam.
they changed out the cams right after they bought the unit..
What wear ? At that few miles there shouldn't be any !!!! As I have always thought the new stuff there putting out is junk . My old 1988 has well over 100,000 miles on it doesn't use oil , still runs good .
This is exactly why I'm watching Kevin's videos. I've been searching for a clean, low mile EVO, but feel myself starting to consider a TC. IMO that "normal wear" for 15K is unacceptable. I don't know if running a premium oil and an external cooler would have prevented the wear shown, but I'd be very unhappy if wear started showing up before 50K. I guess I'll keep hunting for an EVO. They're not without problems too, but I feel more confident that I could keep on top of them.
15-20,000 miles on a 2005? Maybe he should sell it to someone who rides.
Tensioners wear faster when the rider uses the engine/transmission to slow the motorcycle when stopping.
I am so disappointed that Harley would build such a crappy motor and then replace it with one that's even worse. You guys seem to tear down your Motors at the drop of a hat. I didn't tear down my 1965 Triumph TR6 until the camshafts wore out from 50 years of being on the road. And people used to bitch about British quality. Can you imagine the where inside a twin cam or an MH if you rode the bike for 50 years? I don't think it would make it. I don't think you'll see an evolution Sportster in a video because those things run forever my Sportster is a 99 883 with 400,000 miles on it on the original engine. If I wanted a big twin I'd get an Evolution motor I would not take a twin cam or an M8 motorcycle for free I can't afford to drop 10 grand into the motor to fix all the cheap parts that Harley put in. You would think with such an expensive motorcycle they would use only the best materials and the highest quality parts. I have Airhead BMWs from the 1970s that turned 100,000 miles like it's nothing.
pls adjust your mic ; the boost or bass is kinda over blown kevin.