E3D Revo - The future of hotends? Impressions from the beta
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 ต.ค. 2021
- After spending a few months with the Revo beta unit and now that its been shown and ive spoken about it on stream a few times, thought it take the time to condense some of my thoughts and opinions on it in one place and answer some of the common questions about it
E3D`s blogpost about the Revo for more info
e3d-online.com/blogs/news/rap...
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That v2 must belong to a magician...new prints showing up all by themselves!
Big pink ones too!
I thought my pain meds had kicked in hard lol. I want the metallic rainbow filament. That stuff looks awesome 👌.
Cheers from Alberta Canada 🇨🇦
Good details, thanks. And I love how the blocker in the back kept changing lol - gonna keep provisioning dragon HF's until the HF variants for this comes out (ordered two more yesterday), then may switch. Gotta stay speed-benchie-ready!
Ya. If you already have a printer for a specific use case will be harder to justify switching. For example toasty will remain with its hf dragon due to the higher temps it can reach. Revo is rated to only 300c
I was immediately excited about this hot end - this design really changes things up and eliminates SO MANY issues with the current hot end construction.
I'm excited to throw one of these on my MK3S when I can eventually get my hands on one.
Can't wait to see what the Voron team & community come up with to take advantage of the Revo!
Thanks for the summary! Much appreciated.
Very thorough and thought out. Kudos for more great content.
I love your enthusiasm with it. I was a bit apprehensive at first, but the more you talk about it the more sense it makes
Really great explainer. I was wondering what the spring does. Now it's clear.
There are so many nice features in this hot end. I think this is a huge development from E3D. They needed to move on to a new architecture. The price seems fair to me. Worrying about a few tens of dollars when we can blow many times that in wasted filament each year from a whole range of issues seems petty to me.
Now we just need the hard nozzles and a high flow version.
Awesome video. Content and video quality are top notch. Much appreciated. Thanks
I'll wait for the ridged mount and abrasive resistant nozzle. I love my CF fill plastics :P
The heat break is also subject to wear from abrasive filaments, so it's an awesome feature that the hardened nozzle can be paired with a hardened heat break, and both get swapped together.
Good and informative video, Nero. :) Looking forward to the Revo release.
Interesting combo!
Thanks for sharinge your expirenceses with all of us :-)
@nero3D: thanks. Good and useful explanations. But, I've not catched if you made some modifications for your Voron2. Is it compatible with the AB-e3d-v6 head?
It will be at launch.
What are those sort of “bushings” you have under the bed of the Voron?
im finally going to upgrade my extruder on my original cr10 and really need some advice from someone more knowledgeable. i mainly print with a 0.4mm and since I occasionally print larger props or helmets I like the idea of printing with a larger nozzle either the .6 or .8. I'm not sure how much time saving as far as printing goes that the hemera will benefit from the two large nozzle sizes assuming that the .8 will need to print slower then the .6. The other option is was looking at was the new bontech lgx lite with a revo v6. how do you see these two stacking up?
Hmm idk I like my pheatus dragon but I’ll keep an eye this and see where it goes and the support behind it. Appreciate your thoughts on it though.
I'm very interested in these. I doubt I'll look to upgrade the dragon in my Voron 2.4 soon but I'll probably use on of these once they have some different nozzle options available. More and more I've come to realize that paying a few extra dollars for less headache is more than worth it for me.
I also agree that the patent is not a bad thing. E3D certainly spent a huge amount of money (and time) developing this, they should have a chance to recoup some of that before other companies clone it and undercut their price point. As long as they're pricing fairly and not going after hobbyists, I have no problems with their approach.
Hmm... I wonder if the Revo Micro can work with a Precision Piezo Orion? Are official drawings available yet?
Might have to look at a Revo 6 instead if that's size-compatible with the E3D V6.
It's easy to get excited for this because it'd be great in fast printers, but I'm also excited about the Obxidian nozzle. That's an easy and far more affordable part that should also improve performance of more mainstream printers, and that coating should eventually pay for itself in time and money saved. I'll want the Obxidian in my Aquilas, and the Revo in my Voron.
Excellent overview and I cannot agree more with your take on things. I have to ask though, what was the screenshot of that spreadsheet you had up with the different heater and nozzle combos? I have been looking for that overview for some time.
That was done by a member of the voron team over the past little while, using the method @cnckitchen used in his flow test video i believe
@@CanuckCreator any chance you know who it was? I can't find stuff on discord even if my life depended on it.
Do you have a link to that flow rate chart?
Will this fit on a Creality 6 se printer?
Thanks!
I think this is what I’ve been looking for. Slowly working through a Voron 2.4 build, and I’ve just not been thrilled about the existing options. Which isn’t to say that they aren’t good, just that they may not be suited for what I have in mind.
Nero, would you please share the link to the volumetric flow comparisons? I want to check with detailed info
The chart was done by a member of the voron team, i believe they used the method cnc kitchen featured in one of his videos
What display is that on your 2.4? I'm building one right now and I'm not really liking the classic dotmatrix and knob style one...
On the taller v2.4 is a btt tft50 running klipper screen, the v2.4 with the prints in it has a paneldue
Hey Taylor, are you going to do an actual review since it’s been available for some time now.
Are the 'nozzlebreaks' calibrated in height? So, does the Z-offset change after changing them out? Or is that not a USP anymore? (on all three of my printers, I have to recalibrate the Z-offset after changing nozzles).
I know it is not a thing with a (some?) Voron, with the Z-offset sensor, but not every printer has that...
Since the entire `revobreak` (thats the proper name according to e3d, they contacted me to let me know :P) is a single assembly, its components are held to spec
So yes, all should be the same length, and since the heatbreak portion bottoms out on a flange, it should be repeatable after a revobreak swap
This is interesting, but the kickstarter for the Pico Hybrid Hotend has many of these features. I backed it at $1 to see where they went and they are almost ready to ship. Have you looked at that at all?
Hold up, now I'm really curious what's the red toolhead on the v2. holy...
Anyway, will we have a toolhead for v0 at least that is designed specially for the revo?
I think perhaps a new Voron design to hold the Revo.
Do you think they will make/have the need to make a nozzle/heartbreak with a titanium like when they introduced titanium heatbreaks?
Unsure of what they`ll do here, as so far from what ive seen and speaking to others, the current stainless steel tube in the heatbreak is working just fine and heatcreep isnt really and issue, so going to a more expensive material may not be worth it.
10-12$ is honestly great i'm not even mad anymore if that's the price. heck might get one myself, I was mad at e3d a bit because I was expecting 30$~ each nozzles etc and I felt like they're acting a bit like apple etc.
I hope tho that the differences don't get insane with hardened/obxidian. I still wonder how copper/high temp stuff work like! i guess it'd be a heater block upgrade like it is now.
I've been looking at getting some new nozzles in the near future like especially the cht. I still have my E3D copper plated nozzle from probably the first batch and they're great.
But I'll hold out. I change nozzles quite often and I'm totally gonna upgrade my prusa with the revo system as soon as I can!
Like it or not E3D lead the way,
I imagine this will be the standard in a few years with uptake
I need to get this ASAP
The Revo seems very similar to the Phaetus Dragonfly Hotend HIC HF with the integrated nozzle and heat break
Have you heard of Protoprint's Raptor hotend? Looks similar to Revo.
Does this mean that if I upgrade my mk3 to a Revo, and the filament runs out, and the sensor doesn’t trigger … I will NOT have to disassemble the extruder to get to the PTFE tube and pull the stuck filament out … and instead you can just unscrew the nozzle break and unclog it? That alone would make me upgrade.
Correct
Regarding heating speed and stability. Isn't the layout different between heater and thermistor? If those two are closer together here than for example on a Dragon Hotend, a faster response on paper doesn't necessarily translate into a faster heat change of the actual nozzle. I am not sure how one could test it but it would be interesting to see measured temperature vs actual nozzle temperature in Revo and old school hotends.
i fully expecta a reVolcano to be in the works. and i give it about a month before trianglelabs release a V6 block with hemera threading and a dragon mounting hole pattern up top
Looks like it might work good in a non-planar printing scenerio.
Yeah the hot side aspect ratio is really high, so you can clear some crazy approach angles.
nice benchy!
Do you believe they will publish a heatercore with Threads to put in a v6 nozzle and heartbreak in ?
Doubtful. Seems like they are going all in with the new ecosystem
I definitely expect some growing pains with the launch of a whole new ecosystem, something analogous to the initial problems with the Hemera. But they'll get worked out. Maybe I'll volunteer to be one of those post-launch beta testers.
How is Hemera nowadays? Did they make a revision?
I love that smash button!
I hope E3D packages this with the Hemera pretty soon after launch, even if it's just an adapter kit. And I think the $65-$80 is the sweet spot for a hot end without a drive attached.
It looks like it should work as a drop in replacement of the Hemera hot end. They both have the same architecture on the heatsink site.
Why is the outro basically twice the volume of the rest of the video?
Cus i forgot the adjust the audio level :(
11:52 surprise megabenchy!
I'd really love to see some thermal runaway tests with the new PTC heater. For me, this is huge as the hot end is still the biggest safety risk with these printers.
Even on Vorons, we've got thermal fuses and quality SSRs in addition to the software protections for the bed, but hotend safety is solely reliant on software detecting a fault and then being able to disable the cheapest possible MOSFET available on your board. A self limiting heater is a big deal, and it would be great to see some experiments on the maximum achievable temperature.
Moment i get production ones, beta is getting subjected to (hopefully not, but if it happens it happens) destructive tests
Must say that this is at the moment one of the best printer hotenda i've ever used. But still i like dragonfly, still thing that on price u get more...
Great! Now i want it! Show us new Afterburner!
I wonder if E3D has any intention of selling the heat block by itself, because a few months from now, I'm sure we'll have solid options for clone heat sinks and nozzle-breaks.
I'm not completely sold on the combo nozzle/heat break, but I think the heat block is the real magic anyway!
They have said they will sell the individual components of the hotend
Ghost benchy just showing up.
I'm skeptical. Will wait for your review. Really wish they had a fixed mount one.
As i covered in the video, they said there are more comming and no doubt either e3d or a third party will have rigid mounts at launch or soon after, cus if e3d doesnt, someone will jump at that opportunity and market
The nut on the heatsink does an amazing job, holding it rigid compared to the groove mount tho.
I got a Revo and the thermistor failed (erratic and incorrect readings) within a few days. It's the same issue that Stefan from CNCKitchen had. Seems like a common-ish issue. Some folks are on their 2nd or 3rd replacement, which tells me that this issue is more than just bad luck-- there's likely some QC failure happening somewhere in E3D's pipeline. I will say, the proprietary design is fine until something goes wrong-- then you're wishing you had something that you could replace as easily as a V6 nozzle or heater cartridge.
I'm gonna start saving up my money right now. I want two of those, and I'll bet he's gonna want about $140.00 for it. I'll be ready.🤓
I honestly think this will be really big: A hotend with way less points of potential failure! Combine this with good quality filament (Prusament for example) and auto bed level and you will have barely any failed prints at all, which will put hobbyist 3D-printers on a whole new level of mainstream accessibility. Because for now, you really only ever have issues with the extruder, filament or not getting the first layer right. If those things are being adressed, the chances of your print failing are very low. Everything else is already reliable enough for mainstream adoption. Now someone create a one-click slicing software and we are set :D
Nice! Now to remove that guy blocking that tool head 😅 and that pink beachy 🤣
I think this is really for only 1 type of person - those who need a new hotend (for a new build or current one broke) and dont care about speed (until the HF version comes out)
I'll keep an eye on this though, I do like my HF stuff so I wonder how they're gonna replace the volcano and supervolcano.
It can do speeds fine, within reason, ive been running one in my voron v2.4 for months now and its fine with our normal PIF speeds for high speed and quality printing with a .4 nozzle
Oh when I say speed, I mean stupidly fast for like sub 10 min benchies
That and printing fast with large nozzles
I liked your smash button.lol..making videos can be nerve wrecking. Any idea when thisthing becomes available?
Took me a moment to understand what “melting ducks” have to do with it 😅
So, 20$ => 120$ +20$ proprietary brass nozzlebreak and what i get is faster heating up and "open source" radiator?
I expected better cashgrab from E3D.
MK8 + bimetal heatbreak + good cooling + eternal hardened steel nozzles doing wonders for me. Also rigid heatblock and easy nozzle size changes.
Did you not see the whole portion of this video I spent talking about price
120 is full revo kit and 4 nozzles
they said they want the revo to be same price as v6 if possible
v6 is 69.99
So even if revo is 80, for everything, then 10 dollars a nozzle
Which when you compare to most other non china made hotends (and even some like the dragon) is a pretty competitive price.
Fair to complain about the price all you want if your fine building hotends out of ali parts (note, ive done this too, nothing wrong with it)
But it isnt a "cash grab" as someone who is involved in the manufacturing side of things for my day job, the costs of domestic production are much greater here then there, and they are trying to keep things as low as possible while still having a company to run.
If you want a more "cashgrab" scenario, go build a single slice mosquito on their website using only their components, your looking at around 240USD for a minimum viable hotend with 1 nozzle
A hotend with a bimetal heat break is going to be more than $20. A better baseline is something like a Dragon or Dragonfly. Also, this comes with 4 nozzlebreaks in different sizes. It's not weird to pay more for a better thing.
And sadly, a rigid heat block doesn't completely protect the heat break. The brazing on my Dragon's heat break broke during a nozzle change, ultimately destroying the hotend. I'm not the only person this has happened to.
Maxiwatt heater is on Amazon, looks just like this heater core, I guess the difference in Revo is the spring attachment system and the integrated nozzle heatbreak
Its like comparing a honda civic to a tesla model s because they both have 4 wheels. While the look similiar the heaters in both are quite different
We get a sock that does not come off ;} this and Hemera FTW
PS
Rest in peace Sanjay
Let's appreciate how no one is talking about PROTOPRINT's RAPTOR Hot-end which has been patent-pending and available on the market already a long time and E3D just did a clone of their hotend...
I wanna see what is the new toolhead the prints are hiding xD
Look at his video for revo nozzle switches.
Pet peeve: "millimetres cubed" does not mean the same thing as "cubic millimetres" unless it's immediately preceded by "one".
Chasing speed benchies for internet points... lol!
I'm triggered!
Actually i wouldn't call it a new ecosystem. With the v6-style coldend you still can use the existing direct extruder (for example on a Prusa mk3s+) and you can even swap the Revo heater+nozzle and the old (hot tightened) v6 heatblock with thermistor and heatblock (with connectors) and a abrasive tolerant or a new Bondtech CHT nozzle just using a hemera heatbreak to screw your old setup into the coldend. As classic heaterblocks, Thermistors, and heaters are cheap and you also get hemera compatible heatbreaks for a reasonable price, there should be no reason not to use the Revo as soon as it is available for your dayly prints, just swapping it to a classic v6 hotend every time you want a nozzle for abrasive material or high flow CHT. While you have to hot tighten classic nozzle (and the CHT), you only have to do it once - as you only disconnect heater and thermistor and than unscrew just the handtightened heatbreak from the coldend, leaving the hot tightened connection between nozzle and heatbreak uneffected.
Of course you need the same thermistor type if using Marlin and make gcodes to change PID and z-offset (in Klipper you can do changes even more easy).
So using Revo on dayly printjobs does not block you from using the old ecosystem for special print Jobs.
diamond hands!!
So instead of making a huge heatblock they just use a more powerful heater. Crazy concept, huh? Now it would be great if they managed to get rid of the heatsink fan for good
Thing is. It ISNT a more powerful heater. Its only 40w. And it only needs a 2010 fan for cooling
@@CanuckCreator yes, like i said 40w is more powerful than 30w which is what they list as their e3d v6 specs, and most of the hotends people are using are just 15w. many run 12v heaters at 24v for faster heating up, to me using a bigger block never really made a lot of sense, it just adds thermal inertia... which you don't need if you have a powerful heater
Hey I did not find the smash button :-P
And there’s the problem with the patent, the current ecosystem is so expansive because of its open source nature. E3D finds a way to break new ground and they immediately stake their claim, preventing others from building upon it. It’s a leap in progress and then immediate stagnation.
afterburner 2 trolling, lol
Since you can easily swap the whole hotend with the Afterburner, I still like the V6 Volcano best.
A hotend for the price of a whole printer...
Try holding the thing you are talkng about still fpor more then a few seconds.
MAn you make me nervous waving it around all the time.
Knowing how the 3D printing world has been crippled by patents, it is hard to grasp how anyone in the community can be pro-patent. If it is only for defensive purposes, then fine, but I highly doubt that.
Yeah really,th3d for instance sells a really good v6 clone for like 25$ and it's amazing,or you can pay double that for the same thing that comes patented. It just doesn't make sense to toss money away like that. The metal and process required to make these things is so cheap and simple ,you know in your heart your getting bent over and screwed but when it's the only option,we happily bend over. Lol
Look at microswiss hotends even,pushing 70$ with shipping and they are barely larger than stock,they look tiny next to a v6. They have half the metal and cost twice as much.
@@papyro6830 Well, there are no patents on the V6 from all I know. But the funny thing is that even though you can buy cheap clones from Aliexpress, there are still many people who buy the real deal. And there are good reasons to buy the genuine hotend, like quality, customer support, or just the reputation of the manufacturer. The reward for being the inventor should be that you are first to market, and not that you get a 17 year monopoly.
@@hbgl8889 I'm different I guess... I could care less about any of that. I figure if it's a quality product I shouldn't need support. It should work,if I have to call for help or service then something is wrong,that should be a very rare occurrence if a company is making quality products,and money doesn't grow on trees. It's a piece of metal that might cost $1.00 from billet to finished product,its no different than how the pharmaceutical industry charges 2k for a $5.00 pill. I respect your opinion however.
Hold a v6 next to a microswiss once. It's crazy, it's barely even bigger than stock. The v6 is two microswiss hotends metal wise. The only advantages is it fits the stock bracket with no modifications. Metal dissipates heat,they are already taxing the guts out of it,why not throw double the metal for 25 cents more.
just give us a freaking screw in creality style mount :|
I do love how this allows for far better fan duct design tbh :)
Just wait young padawan, by the time this reaches market or soon after, either a 3rd party or e3d themselves will have them made as its an guaranteed market
@@CanuckCreator lol hopefully!
4 pcs of 40w heater in one hotend probably would be OK....
the future is getting even more expensive lol..
I don’t like "beta impressions". The content creator will praise the product (which he has no long time experience with), but brushes all negative aspects away with the notion "its just a beta".
I think i managed best i could. Been running this since early june. I brought up criticisms i felt fair to bring up at this point. And since ive seen changes to adress issues that did crop in beta on the production felt would be best to hold off on bringing those up.
Tried to stick to more fit and function things and about the construction and form factor. Thus the lack of real indepth up close discussions about it
The fact I have to buy new heat sinks for my hemeras (I have around 8 of them) annoys me.
Id imagine they'd still work. just not going to retain the heater to the heatsink.
There’s not going to be any notable lag, the trigger point for the mobo to turn heat on is up to the firmware. Please stop trying to argue this.
Less energy and smaller package is a valid point.
Lol $120, you gotta be fucking kidding me. And stop trying to resin the nozzle to $10, it’s still $120 outta my pocket.
Add it to the list of British inventions. This sort of innovation is what UK niche tech companies do best. 🇬🇧
a lot of hand gestures and no close ups.
This doesn't seem like a very good deal in my mind. With how often people break they're thernister or heater wires it'll be a pain to replace. Replacing the heater and thernister on a v6 can be $15-30 but with the revo heater being patented we don't have cheaper clones and it'll likely cost about as much as buying a new hotend. $15 for a brass nozzle is crazy when you consider the cost a hardened steel nozzle could be with the extra machining complexity. We could be paying $40-50 per nozzle.
It's far cheaper to just by a few v6 clones with different nozzles and swap the entire hotend.
@@imst4722 Perhaps, but I've swapped out heaters, hotends, and thermistors dozens of times without damaging wires. I'm not concerned about that, and while I have no plans to swap to Revo (particularly because they don't support high- temperature printing), I'm really more interested in seeing actual prices before deciding.
@@martinmckee5333 point is you won't be able to swap out heater or thermister without buying the full hotend.
@@imst4722 The heater/thermistor/block portion is a completely separable unit (Nero popped it off in the video.) You'll definitely be able to swap that out without replacing the heat sink, nozzlebreak, etc.
You kinda have to compare it with other bimetallic hotends. You're getting a lot more here than you're getting with something cheap like a V6 clone. The competitors are going to be something like a Mosquito or Dragon. Given the advantages it has over those, it the price looks pretty fair.
@@fwiffo The most expensive part by far is going to be their proprietary heater/thermister. The advantages that the revo, dragon and mosquito have are one handed nozzle changes and the bi metal heatbreak. The ab makes changing the hotend about as easy as changing the nozzle and bi metal heatbreaks are fairly cheap and easy to find for the v6. With a good quality clone costing around $16 and a bi metal heatbreak costing $9 you could buy 4 for the price of one revo and 3 nozzles with money to spare. I get that it's a cool new hotend but it's overpriced just like the genuine v6.
Struggling to get the why in all this. Buying into a new, expensive and patent restricted option with very marginal benefits over much cheaper options. The needle hasnt been moved far enough. Research needs to be put into motion aspects over this.
I find it crazy that E3D won't make their own Ender 3 compatible heatsink, there are plenty of people who would buy one from them even if it does cost a bit more, smells of elitism to me.
Well, they've said there are going to be more heatsink options, literally says it in the video. Here is hoping! 🤷
True and from a logistical standpoint it makes sense they`ve only shown off what they have so far.
Its all lathe work, once you start drilling and milling flats, need seperate machines. New product and ramping up production, makes sense to focus on the easy stuff first
If only we had some kind of machine available that could make parts to adapt any hotend to fit...🤔
Lol... Speed Benchies ... are the absolute bullsh.. of 3d printing
buy cheap buy twice
After 4 minutes of watching you shake the hotend around, I gave up hoping to get a good view of it.
There are full pics of it on e3ds site.
As this was a beta unit and pretty well used. Didnt feel it would be fair showing detailed close ups of it. Least before final version is released
whats wrong with ur mics? i have to turn Bass down to -10 everytime i play one of ur vids.... plz learn about audio
and stop talking way closer to the mic sometimes, why do you have to to do this