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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 พ.ค. 2024
- When USsynthetic reached out to offer a diamondback nozzle, a brass body 3d printer nozzle with a polycrystalline diamond tip, I was very sceptical at first. Having now tried it, and done some tests, was I right to be suspicious or could this really be a nozzle that will last forever?
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0:00 Diamondback Nozzles
0:56 USsynthetic Kickstarter?
2:02 Why use diamonds for nozzles?
3:05 Thermal Testing
3:50 Print FlowrateTesting
4:45 Hardness Testing
5:32 Printed Parts Testing
6:20 Difference to Natural Diamond
6:40 Conclusions - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
I would be interested in a more deep comparison between diamondback, tungsten carbide, and steel since those are the main 3 used for abrasive printing
I'm using a Tungsten Carbide nozzle, I'd like a comparison also.
@Master_Misanthrope This, Tungsten wins. We're talking about full tungsten carbide nozzle. Not just the tip.
@Master_Misanthrope Tungsten carbide is also objectively the most badass material ever.
Potentially a vanadium nozzle as well, as that's slice3d's solution
@@jamesbott2015 That looks like a high-vanadium steel nozzle that they're just branding as "Vanadium." I would love to know what properties a pure vanadium nozzle would have.
I operate a small print farm and love these nozzles. Mostly because once I set my z-height, it never changes. With brass nozzles, it seemed like I was constantly trying to adjust for wear to get back to a decent first layer.
Also, with the thermals on this nozzle, all my existing gcode continued to work fine, but if I re-slice, I’ve been able to get nearly 30% faster prints while maintaining better quality than I had with a brass nozzle. The perfectly shaped and polished tip yields really nice slopes and overhangs - and of course, perfect first layers. Also, filament just doesn’t want to blob up and stick to this nozzle. Filament continues the come out in nice, clean lines.
I feel like this video doesn’t test enough, in particular, test a month old brass nozzle with a month old, but still-pristine DiamondBack one - no comparison!
If you change nozzles a lot for different bore diameters than this nozzle might not be for you, but if you want a perfectly shaped and very performant nozzle that requires zero changes for the life of your printer, this is it.
For me, 95% of my maintenance requirements for all my printers is eliminated. No more accidentally breaking the thermistor or heater-block wires. No more leakages introduced while changing nozzles. None of that. Just printing product with any filament required without any worry.
Love it.
copper moves alot tru the heating changes so your flow and part fan cooling will also play more with the actual temp/size of the nozzle it's self
over size with extra heat or extra flow and under with under heats/flow AT that point of the nozzle maybe what your seeing is the copper/brass fluctuations tru dispensations or thermal surging from flow or alike changes copper will pull heats more so from the heat block then most other materials thus the nozzles heats fluctuations are greater
if you have not seen CNC kitchens stefan's adds 2 6 mm nuts to increase thermal consistency allowing more tru put as there is more heats reserved
cheers
Thank you for the input, was on the fence and I'm not anymore. Going to order mine in a minute with an all metal hot end.
Thank you.
How did you get it to work? My diamond back keeps causing under extrusion
@@metallicaandchimaira what filament are you using? What printer? What temps, retract and prime settings are you using? Direct drive or bowden?
@@metallicaandchimaira bought one few weeks ago and is working well, that's why I'm asking. I'm seeing less stringing with petg even.
Hypothesis - the extra thermal interface between the diamond and the brass introduces more thermal resistance than a single piece of brass
That would mean that the solid tungsten carbide ones should beat both in thermal performance while ruby ones should be the worst of them. Another reason to do the comparison of all these abrasion-resistant ones.
Granted I don’t know if the brass threading is needed for a seal, BUT **Now i want a Solid PCD (HECK EVEN MONOCRYSTALINE CVD DIAMOND) Nozzle**!
this is subjective as I haven't done any flow measurements, but just manually pushing the filament is much easier through the diamondback than through a bare brass nozzle, with the same settings.
Small correction, you can have clear ring quality lab grown diamonds made and they are officially recognized by GIA for grading :D
just because something has more thermal conductivity doesn't mean it has more thermal mass. My guess is that the carbon base nozzle (diamond) is more thermally conductive but it doesn't have the thermal mass to buffer temperature changes and the controller is having a hard time regulating the temp swings compared to brass. Its also possible the interface between the diamond and brass is adding too much thermal resistance compared to one solid piece of brass.
Very interesting hypothesis. Would you think a higher nozzle temp combined with the insane thermal conductivity would equalize/offset results due to the lack of thermal mass?
I'm waiting for the story about some 3DP TH-camr proposing with one of these on an M6-threaded ring. 🤪
I bought a Ruby nozzle with my new printer hoping it would be the only nozzle I need.
Sadly after a hickup, my printer rammed the nozzle into the bed during z-tilt-adjust.
Result was that the Ruby got somehow dislocated and twisted because it is just inserted into a brass housing.
It was so sever, that I couldn't print with it any more.
So I will never ever again buy a nozzle with some kind of inserted tip.
Yeah i heard the Ruby nozzle was bad as it was essentially just a ruby tube in the brass nozzle, not even a proper internal taper! I posted a comment on it, butid love to see a cutaway / cutaway diagram of this nozzle.
@@ericlotze7724 this industrial diamond tip is definitely bigger than the Ruby one. So it should resist impact stress much better.
But you got no guarantee. I'm not taking this risk a second time!
Maybe in a decade when the whole nozzle is made from artificial diamond.
@@spedi6721 The brass *may* be needed for a seal, but yeah I’m with you on that skepticism on inserts, especially if i can’t see a cutaway.
Finally someone, who actually tested this Nozzle.
Thx!
I have the three pack as well (0.4 - 0.6 - 0.8)
Use them on my VCore with Rapido UHF
Flow Rate is better than standard Copper Nozzles, and slightly better than my V6
Heat up time is insanely fast, but that might just be the element heating block. Room Temp to 250C in less than a minute
Will definitely be comparing them to the ObXidian when I get one (or 2) for my Revo
Just don't get them too close to the textured PEI bed .... they WILL shred it. I found that out when my BLT failed
I actually got the 0.6 nozzle a couple of weeks ago. So far I have not had any issues and it is printing pretty well.
Thx for sharing the true flow rate capability between pure brass and backdiamond nozzle! It surprised me how worsts the actual performance of backdiamond was in your A/B test tbh.
One thing I haven’t seem to find is a “Cutaway (Diagram) “
Granted it seems to be doing far better that the Olson Ryby, but i heard one problem with that one was it was an abrupt change from filament diameter in a brass sleeve to the cylindrical ruby nozzle’s fonal “nozzle size” hole (0.4mm etc). Perhaps this one has diamond lining the full way, or at least the insert has a taper on the filament side?
(Edit: Typos)
on their website there is a video about it and at ~2:12 it shortly shows the inside
Got it as part of the Kickstarter, been running it ever since with no issues, handles glow in the dark just fine loving the buy once cry once, changing out worn nozzles is no longer a troubleshooting concern!
Im looking to get a diamond back, after a year of usage would you recommend it?
I'm suuuuuuper happy with mine, aside from abrasives(metal filled, glow in the dark and cf) I would say prints look better, I had to lower the temps I was printing at by 15c, petg really benifits from a pcd nozzle because of the lubricity of diamond, I don't get blobs and the surface is much smoother in petg. The lapped face is super nice for ironing too. At that price you'd think I would move it between my printers but I kinda dont want to go back, so Im probably gonna buy another. Somethings off on your flow test? like I feel like I was getting like 30percent more.
I'm surprised at the flow test results, but it really should be compared against nozzles that can handle abrasives. I got a diamondback a while ago and i love it. Great layer adhesion compared to a vannadium nnozzle i had
cool video, would be interesting to compare it to full tungsten carbide, as this is just an insert, so the main body may still wear away. also: tungsten carbide nozzles can be torched with an extremely hot flame, to clear any potential clogs, which neither the diamond nor the brass body will survive.
6:27 **Minor snobby correction:** Monocrystaline Diamonds can be made synthetically. I think it is typically Chemical Vapor Deposition based though so unlike PCD, the “grow time” and overall shape is a major limitation.
(Granted short of Optical/Jewelry Applications I’d imagine the cost increase compared to small gains in properties wouldn’t be worth it)
(Also i am not an expert in the area, I’ve just “geeked out on” Polycrystalline Diamonds (PCD), Diamond-Like Carbon, and Carbon Glass a bunch recently after hearing about them in angle grinder disks in my welding class, *so* feel free to correct me if o used terms wrong, or add to this!)
(Edit: Typos)
Yeah the Costs increase, still artificial diamonds are way cheaper than natural occurring ones. But this is also mainly because of the De Beers Group, who controls the natural diamond market.
@@Toxicity1987 Also natural diamonds have to be used “as is”, they can’t be bought in wafers / blocks etc.
@@ericlotze7724 Uhh no? Naturtal diamonds usually are cut and polished, and you can get artificial diamonds in a typical octahedral form. This is even the most common form for artificial diamonds for usage in the jewelry industry.
@@Toxicity1987 What I mean is that you can only do what the rock formation allows for. With artificial, engineering (or honestly just money and time) /science are the only limitations.
Two factors here that could be at play are surface roughness inside the nozzles, but (guessing here) surface energy could also be a significant factor? If you try a water drop test on each material the diamond surface should have a much more spread out drop for the same mass of drop as the brass.
This means the surface of the diamond is more willing to stick to unlike materials then the brass. So, the flow through the nozzle encounters far more sticking to the diamond nozzle's internal walls. Plus, more speed = more damping force on the flow, slowing things down.
Just a guess though!
I've used one of these at 0.6 and it's been pretty great. I just needed something that was unwearable with the high amount of glass fiber nylon and CF nylon I print.
These guys where at tct i think i dont remember whos video i watched maybe nero?
I have 2 diamond nozzles and I absolutely love them
I have had to increase my print temp for normal meterials with a hardened steel nozzle, so not having to do that would make life a whole lot easier
Setting the temp to +10 in the slicer settings is hard?
@@backgammonbacon Yes, having to maintain a different material library for the one printer capable of printing CF is time consuming, and changing it manually before every print is prone to error. Plus is it ready always +10C? No matter if you’re printing a 190C PLA or 270C ASA?
I have a hardened steel nozzle on my artillery sidewinder and a diamondback nozzle on the tronxy x5sa. I have to raise temps by 10 degrees on the steel nozzle and lower 10 degrees on the diamondback nozzle. The diamondback nozzle is really a great nozzle.
I would add to hardness and thermal conductivity as main characteristics. Friction and clean flow path.
I found that on our printers with the diamond nozzles that I have to cut temps by AT LEAST 20C did you see something similar?
I really liked your condensed review of it! I had the same skepticism, but instead, a buddy wanted my opinion and sent one to me to test. They saw the video and wanted to come on my podcast. Really a great team!
Someone I know that prints CF filled plastics, a hardened steel nozzle is good for 2-3 months of round the clock printing. So to make payback with the diamondback, it seems you need to print equivalent of non-stop printing for a year or find some other benefit.
Great video and a very interesting result! Do you know how long the 0.4mm orifice is? I suspect you may be limited by force applied if the orifice is too long. Would there be any way to get a rough measurement with e.g. calipers? I would love to run a pressure calculation on it.
Not able to measure this small unfortunately, I may be able to ask though.
a cold pull on PLA is a pretty good way to replicate the inner features to see that, it's my same thinking, probably needs better internal geometry
@@l3d-3dmaker58 That's a good idea! At the very least we could learn more about the nozzle cone angle inside!
@@Vector3DP The orifice length is relatively short and is about 0.125mm. The internal geometry consists of two different tapered segments. With this design the filament is continually being reduced within the diamond until it reaches the orifice of the nozzle. Interesting results. Excited to understand them more.
Users that would benefit from the extreme abrasion resistance of a diamond-tipped nozzle (a very small group) cannot tolerate a nozzle with a brass body. In these rare cases, involving custom filaments, the nozzle's internal geometry must resist abrasion too. Folks printing standard abrasives such as glass fiber or carbon fiber can use fully hardened tool steel nozzles (Rc mid 60s) for 100+ kg of filament without problems. A diamond-tipped brass nozzle is neither here nor there.
Did you try scratching the metal samples with the nozzle tip? I feel like I missed when you went from testing the control (the included diamond sample) to testing the subject (the nozzle tip). Otherwise what does the scratch test prove?
Prime day had these for $75! Just picked one up!
Are these available for the Creality Sprite Pro?
How far does the diamond go into the nozzle? My Nozzle-X is not just a hardened tip. The entire nozzle is of the same abrasion resistant material. Which makes sense as the material does not melt in the tip.
So, this one may slowly carve itself out until the nozzle is pushed out. I'd like to see some long term tests.
Were is the link to the diamond nozzles?
I've been told that the Ruby is inferior for general use due to the geometry. It has a stepped design which obstruct the flow compared to standard E3D, which are conical and therefore provide better flow. Perhaps that's why the diamond did not perform very well at high flow rates.
the diamond back is supposed to have some patented geo inside, must be a marketing thing or for something else
Where the two material meet, the internal geometry of the diamond has the same diameter as the internal bore of the brass. Something else likely impacted the flow rate.
The conical design gives better flow, the stepped design supposedly reduces stringing. Pros/cons
Ah, but what nozzle do we use for diamond dust infused filament?
Sidenote, I did put an olson ruby nozzle in my printer years ago, and about 50kg of mostly PLA with the odd spool of iron/steel/carbon here and there, no wear whatsoever, runs like on day 1.
Some of the clogs I've had in brass nozzles are pretty crazy. Would have to have a diamond nozzle clog especially at $100 each.
Only clogs I've had was retraction distance was too high, it was pulling back to a cold area and clogging mid print but would be gone at the next heat up.
Did you have any guesses as to why the diamond nozzle didn't keep up with the print speed of the E3D?
a budget alternative for diamond: Tungsten Carbide, with similar hardness and thermal conductivity, yet half the price
thermal conductivity also 3 times better than ruby
I just don't see the need. Is there a tungsten-carbide impregnated filament that I'm not aware of?
can this be used on PEI at 400C ? 9085/1010 w/sabic resin?
Attempting to scratch the diamond with other things and seeing a mark that whipes away is essentially how a touchstone works
honestly. 100usd is not that bad for a sizeable industrial diamond like that
Make sure your Z is on point or get ready to replace some plates.
One correction. The clear big diamonds that are in jewelry can be manmade. I consulted a factory that made them a few months ago when I was under a similar assumption and realizing that they were selling the the expensive diamonds and not the industrial kind changed my advice.
this might be having the same dumb issue as the Ruby nozzles, a flat back instead of a very shallow 60°+ angle to reduce backpressure. if you do a cold pull you can test that!
you want a smooth transition from the big 2mm hole to the small .4mm one, not a flat wall
The DiamondBack Nozzle is designed with two different tapered segments in the diamond portion, and it does not have any flat between the two materials. A cold pull of the nozzle used in the test might be interesting to see.
does the 2 different materials not eventually let go, i mean they are different expansion rates and materials...
if you ...when you get carbon buildup or burnt poly in the nozzle you torch it clean it would induce separations no?
contamination like carbon dont fix them selves but you can try a purging compound some are really good some do squat try to get a chemical and mechanical reaction purging most filament purges are only mechanical not chemical reacting
as for friction heats any material will wear down with enough friction,pressure,heats.. it will wear anything out in time
EXAMPLE: in a blown film plant trimmings are recycled tru a venturi tube with a vac blower back into the added feeder to be mixed back in with the resin for the extruder a2.5" pipe "s/s steel309 318ect.." 2.5"OD the trim moves about 100m/min average wearing the ss down in months the least path of resistance is where the wear is made and is not even at all A round pipe could end up like a tear drop or a star shape wear winch is caused from friction heats
plastics and frictions are more serious then 3d printing shows it today due to the slowed thru puts and back pressures are minimal in comparison but still are present (nothing last forever specially in poly extrusions) friction is a large enemy in every type of plastic production , if you move melted resin/poly you have friction heats and friction heats will wear stuff out regardless of the material it only helps never stops, their is no cure for friction heats as you need the back pressure for consistent extrusions and adhesion's and for over 50 years nickle and CR 38 coatings are a must, as does hard materials are better but will only last longer not forever nothing last forever and carbon alone will stop you long before the ID is out unless you only play with ply-doo
please compare it with tungsten carbide
You forgot to mention the important of lubricity for nozzles!
The thermal coefficients of expansion are so different between the brass and this "diamond" that it will crack eventually. Good luck fools and your money. Lol there are good reasons why there are no industrial nozzles using this material and none of them are cost.
It is not good giving us half information you have to elaborate for us fools to know..
@@abdullahalmahin9070 check my reply up top plank knows his physics and i have 20 plus years in extrusion blown films PE HDPE LLDPE LDPE MDPE PP PEI ASA PC .....so on, Friction heats will round out anything taking the path of least resistance
carbon is gonna get you long before and then will need a proper clean out at this point it is not the nozzle ID it carbon buildup then comes material loss or ova ling of the path of least resistance usually due to the carbon buildup or friction heats from the process
About $0.25 cents for a brass nozzle. Thats about 400 nozzles for the price of one diamond nozzle. I think it might be more cost effective to just use a new brass nozzle for every 3D print. :)
yep too expensive for the casual 3d printer.... Too bad it is not clear and shiny like the ruby nozzles, that would look too cool.
An entire nozzle in transparent diamond would look amazing, being able to see the material flow through it
i think there's something like that from slice engineering, vanadium nozzles they say it is indestructible.
"vanadium" is just chrome-vanadium steel, same stuff cheap hand tools like wrenches are made of lol, it's not indestructible by any means just a steel nozzle
@@l3d-3dmaker58 but does other steel noozle good for printing abrasive filaments?
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reason for the worse performance of the diamond tip nozzle regarding the print test could be because of bad internal contact between the brass and the diamond, which could lead to a sort of isolation effect, if there are micro airpockets in there. but just guessing
Brute Fosyth, nice to beat you, to beat you, nice :)
Until I accidently drag it across the bed because my Z offset is too low.
Very bad, different expansion rates in materials alone.
They could have made the whole nozzle and had better performance. The brass interface will get loose eventually. Based on expansion rates of materials.
no one asked for a full PCD nozzle@@Georges3DPrinters
Are you German？You did the three finger thing.
talk ab out waste of packaging
This was a special 'influencer' kit, the standard packing is quite efficient.
I tend to agree with your conclusion , hobbyist will not spend that kind of money on nozzles no matter how good they are. It's much cheaper to use brass or steel nozzle and replace them when necessary.
Lasts forever, but has brass main nozzle body.......
$100 for a diamond nozzle really isn't all that expensive. If you're ever printing anything abrasive, you know a spool of that material itself is like $100. So why would you get anything _but_ a diamond tip nozzle? Diamond has extremely high thermal conductivity and hardness so it should last forever; it should be the obvious choice.