POR 15 Fuel Tank Sealer Fail. / How To Prep A Used Gas Tank For Welding.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 28 พ.ค. 2021
- Hey everyone. If you remember Charger Build - Episode 6 when I dropped the gas tank I found out that some of the POR 15 fuel tank sealer delaminated.
Well in this episode we see how bad it is. I show you how to make a fuel tank safe for welding and cut it open to see.
Let me know your experiences with POR products below. I'm curious if you've had success or failures.
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I recently bought a POR-15 Fuel Tank Sealer Kit ... I have not put in the actual sealer in yet... but I have done all the prep work as directed and I been letting it dry. After doing all the prep work as directed now the inside of my tank is all shiny like brand new on the inside.. just like yours was in the video. My fuel tank didn't have any leaks. But is VERY RUSTED on the outside. So I thought I'd use this product just to be safe. But after seeing your video I think I'm going to avoid using the POR-15 Fuel Tank Sealer Product on the inside of the tank. And just paint the outside of the tank with regular POR-15 Rust Treatment Paint like what's used on car frames and body panels. I want to thank you for posting this video though... you may have just saved me from making a costly mistake on my project.
Do they sell new tanks? If you can, just buy a new one is my suggestion.
I cleaned and prepared a small Honda fuel tank with the POR kit. I used a heat gun to dry the inside after the marine clean, metal prep, and acetone to make sure it was completely dry. It had a nice grey surface inside. After the coating dried for a couple of weeks I put fuel in it. After a couple of years it peeled off, just like yours. I've used the Kreem @ sealer with far better results.
How long has Kreem lasted?
@@VicsGarage71 I've got a Honda Z50 fuel tank that was done 15 yrs ago with Kreem. It is stained by the gasoline but still solid.
@@jamesbrummer660 wow. That’s amazing. If I need it again I’ll use that product
I just got finished resealing my old gas tank. I went above and beyond for prep work. I threw in a 2ft section of heavy chain along with about 20 other small sections of 1in square tubing and shook that for about 1hr total. I made sure all the rust in there was knocked off as best as I could get it. It even roughs up the surface so the sealer has something more to bite into. I then filled the entire gas tank up with hot water and 2 gallons of white vinegar to get the rust in the hard to reach places. I let that sit over night. I through in some baking soda and water and sloshed that around for a bit to neutralize the acid from the vinegar. I used 1 of their degreaser bottles, hot water, and once again shook the hell out of it. Next was the metal prep and that NEEDS to stay wet so I spent a solid 40 minutes rotating the tank so every square inch was covered and had a chance to do its thing. I washed the metal prep out about 3 times. It'll leave behind this white powdery residue that will not allow your sealer to stick. It's all about the prep work my guy. Just like a show car quality paint job you can't skimp out on the prep work involved.
I didn’t have the rust to contend with so chain wouldn’t have mattered for me.
I agree prep matters. Anyone who wants to try it should definitely pay attention to those steps. I think going above and beyond is a good idea.
After the metal prep stage of the Por15 kit, the tank has to be dried really well. What I do is get all of the water out with acetone and then evaporate the residual acetone with fresh air. If you dry your tank with vehicle exhause, you contaminate your newly cleaned surface with VOCs from unburned fuel and possibly a tiny bit of oil. That would cause liner failure.
For sure. That exhaust gas in this video was done to make it safe to cut open.
When it was applied it was a new tank and after metal prep it was dried using a hair dryer.
@@VicsGarage71 Oh, I see. That makes sense.
I guess we'll see if my tank fairs any better. I just attempted to repair a motorcycle gas tank that had a bunch of pinholes using JB Tank Weld and then lined it with Por15. Hopefully it doesn't turn into CarburetorClog15.
@@davecummings3335 do you think acetone will be safe on the metal prep treatment?
@@martinb1340 Acetone will be fine to use after the metal prep. What the metal prep does is actually acid etch the surface, giving the liner a good surface to bond to. If I remember correctly, it also has zinc in it which will plate out a little bit and help to prevent flash rust from forming prior to the application of the tank liner. Acetone will not remove that layer or contaminate the etched surface as long as fresh acetone is used. (you wouldn't want to use acetone that has been contaminated with anything non-volatile because the non-volatile stuff will still be there after the acetone evaporates)
I had the same thing happen with the Eastwood tank sealer. I followed the instructions to the letter, but after a while, it began flaking off. They always just blame the process, but I did what it said. Acetone dissolved it and so I was able to remove the failed liner, but what a chore.
It seems like it was way too shiny meaning the metal prep probably didn't etch the metal well enough(I'm assuming that's what it does). If it had been previously rusted it would have had enough area to grab on to and stick. Normally you wouldn't paint on a smooth surface .
Definitely possible. The kit comes with metal prep for new metal. But it’s possible that it failed during the prep stage.
I think their rust coating needs the rust to bond too, otherwise your better off with paint. Was the inside surface, other than where welded, too smooth to form a tooth for the product? Either way I avoid Por 15.
Maybe. But the rep said as long as I used the metal prep which I did it should’ve been ok.
@@VicsGarage71 been using POR 15 forever, the only thing better is military grade epoxy fuel tank sealers they use on aircraft. When i can’t get it, then POR15, but since you are not getting the system to work for you, Zinc dip for fuel tanks. It is what many manufactures do when coating steal tanks, it last a few years until the ethanol separation process brings water via condensation. Causes the break down of the factory zinc coating.
It looks like the "Metal prep" (phosphoric acid and something) didn't bite for some reason. After I used it, the surface was matt from the phosphate that is supposed to be formed but your tank is all shiny on the inside. Why the "Metal prep" didn't work, I don't know.
Could very well be it. Have you had much success with it?
I think it was the carbon coating the tank from the exhaust plowing through the tank to dry it out
That was well after it failed. That was done so it could be cut open.
When it was dried originally prior to coating I used a hair dryer
Hey man, why aren't you just replacing the tank?
I am now. I cut it open to see the condition of the POR out of curiosity.
When I added the sump and stuff at the time there wasn’t really any other options for 3rd gens. But now aeromotive and others make tanks set up for efi and return lines so now there’s no need to do what I did
is that a stainless steel tank looks mint inside ? like it never needed it por 15 works better on metal or aluminium could of been the problem
No its not stainless.
It was a newer tank at the time I modified for a return line and a sump. So I used the por to seal the pin holes and ensure no leaks around fittings.
@@VicsGarage71 Well that rules that theory out then the results in your video made me look at other products trying fertan for motorbike tank fingers crossed
Fwiw, it was done a long time ago. I’ve been told it’s supposed to be permanent. But if you read a conversation I had with another guy in the video he basically said the life span is about 5 years.
I don’t want to unfairly slag the product, it’s just my experience with it. I would read that conversation thread and get his take on it.
The thing I’ve learned about POR is people either love it or hate it lol.
Best of luck bud!
Thanks ❤❤
Hope it helps
That POR15 sure leaves a shitty mess behind. I dont think I'll be using that any time soon. A better way to cut open a fuel tank is just fill it with water.
Thanks for the tip
I’ve had POR15 last less than a year and follow instructions to the T. I’ll not use it again. I only just fill with water to cut open. Works great
15 years ago? How long did you expect this to last? Did i hear you incorrectly 15 years ago? Haha. I am in a salty climate and having to do a motorcycle tank after 5 years, and will probably have to do it again in 5 years due to the high levels of ethanol in local fuel.
Well according to the POR rep it should last a lifetime so more than 5 years. If you're redoing it every 5 then I think there's a problem.
@@VicsGarage71 yes there is a problem, the local fuel i get, no other options is up to 20% ethanol. most steel tanks for the big 4, kawi, yamaha, honda and suzuki are not produced in Japan, they are fabricated in Thailand with cheap Chinese steel that has flooded the market for the last 20 years. the boxsite quality is very low, very prone to rusting no matter the welds are fine and it is zinc dipped. it also doesn’t help i might only put 1000 Km on each bike a year and don’t feel like draining the tank every time i get the bike out to ride, which, since i am rotating bikes isn’t that often. Yes, there are problems, but POR15 isn’t the problem, it is the ethanol and no Seafoam, liqui moly and Sta-bil fuel stabilizers don’t help much. it helps to reduce separation, but the issue of how old the fuel is before i purchase it, and the high salt humidity climate i am in also contributes highly. Because you can’t bullet proof everything. it is a price to pay for not storing the bikes in a climate controlled environment which would actually help reduce the frequency of either redu-POR15 treatment, or getting a new tank. I prefer aluminum which does away with all these issues but for some bikes getting an aluminum tank in current traveling conditions is almost impossible or 2 to 3 times the cost of the tank.
@@marknasia5293 Hey Mark thanks for the reply and appreciate you sharing your experiences with it here. I accidentally removed your other comment so I want to apologize first for that. I'm going to try and reply to it all here though.
So first off I feel there maybe a bit of confusion. The torch and exhaust gas were not part of the process when the POR was initially applied. That was being done to ensure the tank was safe to cut open and remove vapors that could potentially flare from the sparks when cutting. Ideally someone would use a steam cleaner from a radiator shop or something, but I don't and many wont have that option. So I showed another way that someone could prep a tank for repairs or modifications that would require cutting or welding.
That aside, when I used the Fuel tank sealer it was the 3 piece kit, de-greaser, prep, and por of course. The tank was new with the sump added to it and a Hair dryer was used to dry it out. The tank had fuel in it for probably 3 years on the low end and maybe 5 on the high before it was put in storage where it was drained. The sump makes it easy to do so. When drained there was no indication that the lining was flaking. Now I know I said 15 years ago in the video. I'm erring on the the high side because I want to give the product the benefit of the doubt. If I said 10 years I don't think it would change your opinion much.
Fuel was added to it again to get the car running and that fuel maybe sat in it for a year or so with some stabilizer in it for a few months before I decided to strip the car right down. It was drained this past winter.
So maybe the tank had fuel in it for 5-6 years tops over its life? Which would be in line with your experiences of the lining lasting that long. Now maybe there is a compatibility issue with the stabilizer. That is possibly. I know POR does sell their own stabilizer product. But the Data sheet, instructions or website give no indication of this being a compatibility issue. It does say that it is resistant to all fuels, alcohols, and additives though. Another issue I can possibly see is MAYBE the sump and baffles caused an issued with coverage inside the tank? But with the amount of product still in after cutting it open it doesn't readily appear so. But one can't be sure of that unless cut open immediately after apply it.
I did call them out of curiosity to see what they would say. Like I said, they said if the prep was done right it should last a lifetime and hold up to all types of fuels including racing fuels. Now I'd bet that if you called them and talked to them about high levels of ethanol specifically they would tell you the same thing and wouldn't indicate that you would be reapplying it every 5 years or so. But that's me taking a guess, if you do let me know I'd be curious. There's just no indication of that anywhere in their product sheets. Ethanol as an issue didn't occur to me when talking to them because where I am it's a max of 10% I believe.
Now if 5-6 years of use seems reasonable to you then great. But if that's the case I'd like to see some indication that the operational use of the product is in that range. But that is just not indicated anywhere. I do know one other person who has used it in a motorcycle tank before, I'm not sure how long ago though. I'm curious now how long he has had it and if he's similar to you since that would remove some of those variables that you indicate are unique to your experience.
@@VicsGarage71 the variables mean everything. I have a person i know brought exact same motorcycle maybe a month within the date of my purchase. he drives the bike regularly, constantly cycling the fuel, same humidity, same gas with ethanol content. He doesn’t have rust issues with his tank, but then again he has 20K kilometers on his odometer and has a different set of issues. Any vehicle that is not used that much, where fuel can sit, breakdown regardless of fuel stabilizers, condensation will form inside the tank, outside atmosphere either exacerbates the problem or it is negligible. The product isn’t the issue and unless i receive cans of POR15 that are hardened when i order them. I have no plans on contacting them to complain about their product even if the product fails under my experience of 5 - 6 years. 5 - 6 years on many motorcycles is the lifetime of the fuel cells/tanks, especially if the bikes are not used that much. Plastic PVC Polyethylene tanks have their own set of issues, steel tanks rust, because they are made of steel, the cheaper the quality of steel (not so much the construction methods welds etc) is the real issue along with lack of use and the high humidity or even high salt environment, salt air, salty roads pick a poison. All those are variables that really i don’t want on the side of my POR15 can. the writing is already so small it is hard enough to read the instructions. one can of fuel injector cleaner will strip POR15, that is how i get mine to break free from my motorcycle tanks when i replace them. I don’t wait for them to start pealing, because of the process to replace it is so much less painful. I get the liner to come out and break free from the tank, it comes out in large pieces because it is preemptive maintenance. then degrease the tank with brake cleaner, it evaporates really fast just more expensive than degreaser. hot air gun dry the tank let it cool slightly, cool enough to hold in bare hands then add the POR15 metal prep (a light etch rust converter) normally at this point i can see small areas of rust that within about 20 min to and hour of rotating the tank around and ensuring the rust has been converted i can drain the POR15 metal prep. Yes they say you can reuse it, don’t, if it is not the purple color or at least a light green color discard it, normally you can tell it is working because if you couldn’t see into the tank, the POR15 metal prep (phosphoric acid) will turn charcoal to blackish tint. keep adding fresh POR15 metal prep and rotating the tank in your hands 20 min - an hour and do this over and over until the stuff you are pouring out isn’t blackish charcoal grey color. if you can see in the tank (on FI bikes since they require a fuel pump when removed a hole about 4.5 inches in diameter is left. you can see how much didn’t get coated/converted with the por15 metal prep and this is non-diluted direct from the bottle. Yesterday i redid another tank on a bike, took 5 hours to get all the surface rust converted, and the inside of the tank aside from the fuel cap neck lip, looked like virgin prepped metal. this bike hadn’t been done before and needed it. it took another 2 hours to get the tank rinsed and POR15 fuel tank sealer added, and all the excess removed. leaving too much por15 tank sealer causes it to peal also, don’t know why but does. after it cures for 96 hours, then the bike tank can be put back together, well after all the rust is removed fuel injectors pressure cleaned, etc. I have no idea how long the liner will last. when it is ready to be done or it reaches the 5 to 6 year mark, i will redo the liner, not wait for my fuel system to get contaminated, just strip the liner out with FI cleaner, a couple bottles seems to work, drain the tank of gas put the cleaner straight in and it peals the liner off. it is cheap and i have access to plenty of it, whereas the por15 metal prep, not as much access and it cost way too much to be wasted on stripping the liner out. the small can of POR15 cost me around 120$ USD locally when ordered online because of local shipping monopolies/restrictions i can’t get it via Amazon/eBay. the POR15 metal prep is slightly cheaper for the small bottle running at 80$ a bottle. I used an entire bottle on a small fuel tank yesterday. The small can of POR15 tank sealer/liner is consumable to that is pretty much a fix cost. 200$ in, to de-rust a fuel tank that caused the bike to shot off because the rust was enough to clog injectors. A new tank runs around 300$ factory replacement plus 4 - 6 months wait time. Am i thrilled to spend 200$ on a bike i might put 1000 km a year on, no, thrilled at an entire day to seal a tank nope. But i am very realistic and realize that living on an island, surrounded by salty, high humidity air ave temps are 80’s and forced to use ethanol fuel. It is what it is. My logic is this, once POR15 goes under, my bike will be down for half a year, thanks as there aren’t too many alternatives out there that even come close to their product. Try the competitors and let me know how they work for you. they didn’t for me, or any of the guys doing the exact same thing is am. I mean if I had to really complain about something with POR15 it is the can’s lid, i mean seriously that is a rational complaint, if you have to almost destroy the can to get the lid off, that is a little much. I hope you find a product that surpasses that of POR15, please put it on youtube, i might get lucky and can purchase it. i have no connection to POR15 other than i have purchased enough of their products that i must be helping putting somebody’s kids thru college. They made a product that is about as good as you can find, LBE, show me the way to a better product that last longer. I know of one, just don’t know how to acquire it legally and don’t want a criminal record (that day you are asked “what are you in for” - “stealing tank sealer”) yep that’s not me. Actually on the bikes i have with fuel cells with aesthetic covers that looks like a gas tank, I have aluminum tanks. They too still suffer from high salt content in the air but there is an entire range of cleaning/protective products to keep that from damaging the aluminum. plus they are so much lighter weight. my biggest problem is i can’t find someone to make an aluminum tank for my enduro bikes. that an this whole virus cancelling out international travel makes flying in parts myself a no go.
btw, it is your channel, feel free to censor it however you wish, if you are satisfied with the product you have made, (the video) there you have it, it is your choice to complain about the product. If i were in the states and had a Charger/Challenger (whatever) I would just get an aftermarket aluminum fuel cell, and also fuel tank straps, scrap the originals too.
@@marknasia5293 I don’t censor it like I said it was a mistake and that’s why I told you. If I censored it I’d remove this conversation too and block you from talking.
This conversation will definitely be saved because others who are considering using it should definitely hear your experience as it adds a lot to the conversation.
The barriers which led me to using it in first place are mostly gone by this point. The product offerings for 3rd gens were slim. Now Aeromotive and others offer fuel tanks set up for efi and stuff already that don’t require modifications.
I find it odd that fuel injector cleaner will strip the lining so easily given they tout its compatibility with all fuel additives. But then again, the dose does make the poison as they say. Does just one bottle in the tank alone, sloshed around do it? What’s the fuel injector cleaner you use? I know many aren’t alcohol based so I’m curious what’s the active ingredient that strips it so easily. I know some use Xylene, others Toulene, some PEA.
With that peeling it’s obviously a prep problem, if you used your “exhaust drying method” you filled the tank with all kinds of contaminants and moisture.
You didn’t watch or understand what happened in this video. The exhaust was done to render the tank safe to cut open. The tank was sealed years ago. Exhaust was never used in the original process. It failed before exhaust was used.
The original process was a new tank with a sump welded to it and was prepped with por metal etching.
You do know that exhaust is mostly water vapor !
The exhaust was done so that it was safe to cut open. The POR failed prior to this. It wasn't part of the prep for applying the POR.. The fuel tank sealer was applied to a brand new tank that was prepped properly.
Kreem failed me.
How long did you have it in for?